Wednesday, 2013-10-16

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dandrushkoHi! Any ML2 disucssions today?14:16
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matrohonhi! it is cancelled for today14:20
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johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 16 15:00:15 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:00
johnthetubaguyHi who is around for todays meeting?15:00
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johnthetubaguyI am expecting matel15:01
johnthetubaguybut I guess he is not here yet15:01
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johnthetubaguyso we have release notes to review15:10
johnthetubaguyand summit session to repare here:15:10
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johnthetubaguyprepare here:15:11
johnthetubaguy#help please review
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:11
openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 16 15:11:59 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:12
openstackMinutes (text):
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DuncanT-mobok, lagging connection is painfully lagging15:51
DuncanT-mobNot sure if I'll be able to usefully contribute to a meeting with a 20 second keypress lag15:52
DuncanT-mobI'd like to see V1 properly depricated ASAP, but that does mean getting devstack updated. I'll see if any of our CI team can push that change through in the morning... No idea who we've got but launchpad will know15:52
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* DuncanT-mob waves16:00
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 16 16:00:12 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
jgriffithhey everyone16:00
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zhiyanhello folks16:00
jgriffithagenda is here:
avishayhello all16:00
jgriffithI'll open it up for folks after we get through the basics real quick16:00
jgriffith#topic status for Havana16:01
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jgriffithYou may have noticed we did an RC3 last night/this morning16:01
zhiyangood work jgriffith, two fixes.16:01
jgriffithThis hopefully will address the upgrade issues with mysql migrations16:01
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jgriffithzhiyan: yeah, the other one was fortuitous :)16:02
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Saw that.16:02
jgriffithFor anybody that didn't see:
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winston-dhopefully no rc4?16:02
jgriffithThe thin LVM fix and the i8n fix I pushed to master didn't warrant IMO16:02
jgriffithwinston-d: please no16:03
jgriffithit's time we move on and say good by to RC's for Havana16:03
jgriffithbesides the distro folks will murder me if I do another RC :)16:03
avishayjgriffith: kudos on the release!16:03
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jungleboyjavishay: +216:03
jgriffithavishay: thanks, and kudos to everyone for pitching in!!16:03
jgriffithhopefully you've all got some testing in on the RC bits16:04
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jgriffithI dont' really have much else on RC, just wanted to give that update incase folks didn't see it16:04
winston-dwhat? test? :)16:04
jgriffithanybody have any questions about RC?16:04
jgriffithwinston-d: haha!!!16:04
avishaywinston-d: just wait for bug reports from the field ;)16:04
winston-davishay: hah!16:05
jgriffithavishay: winston-d I thought that's what the field was for "test"16:05
jgriffithjust kidding16:05
jgriffithalright... moving along16:05
jgriffith#topic release-notes16:05
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jgriffithI've takena  stab, but there's a good bit probably missing16:06
jgriffithit would be great if you have a feature that you worked on/added if you put something in the release notes about it16:06
jgriffithalso eharney I think that TODO is from you16:06
avishayvolume migration :(16:06
jgriffitheharney: you want me to write something or shall you?16:06
thingeeYes, there are a fair number of drivers that had config options deprecated. Please note these in the release notes. your users will love you.16:06
eharneyoh, yes, it is16:06
jgriffithavishay: yes I didn't forget, I just went to bed when I got to it16:06
avishayjgriffith: :)16:07
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jgriffithavishay: if you want to add something that woudl be fantastic16:07
eharneyi can16:07
avishayjgriffith: will do16:07
jgriffithwinston-d: your qos changes should have some detail there as well16:07
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winston-djgriffith: yep, and i still own everybody the doc.16:07
jgriffithI'd like to have the fairly well buttoned up by the end of today if we can16:08
jgriffithwinston-d: Ohh yeahh!!  Thanks for reminding me :)16:08
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jgriffithwinston-d: you're docs/comments in code and commit messages is great BTW16:08
jgriffithmuch appreciated16:08
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winston-djgriffith: thx, still working on doc for qos, should be ready tomorrow16:09
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jgriffithwinston-d: great16:09
jgriffithanything on Release Notes?16:10
jgriffith#topic summit16:10
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jgriffithOk, we've got a good list:
jgriffithnow it's time to start figuring out what stays, what goes16:11
jgriffithI plan to finally get around to working on this a bit today16:11
avishayjgriffith: link is 'forbidden'16:11
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jgriffithso fair warning, if you have things in mind that you haven't proposed, it would be really good to get them up16:11
jgriffithavishay: say whaaa16:11
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jgriffithsorry about that16:12
jgriffithI gave you the link to my "special" page16:12
avishayctrl-f , search for cinder :)16:12
zhiyanhow to group-by-cinder...16:12
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thingeeyou can just order by topic16:13
jgriffithavishay: you an also sort by cliking on topic16:13
jgriffiththingee: +116:13
zhiyanthingee: cool16:13
jgriffithSo... if anybody sees anything here they don't want to talk about :)  let me know16:13
jgriffithor if you want to volunteer to combine some sessions that would be great as well16:13
jgriffithelse I'll do it myself, and who knows how messed up it will be :)16:14
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avishay22 topics, 11 slots?16:14
jgriffithavishay: yeup16:14
jgriffiththe math doesn't quite work :)16:14
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winston-deach one have 22.5 mins, done16:14
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jgriffithwinston-d: interesting idea16:14
jgriffithlighting rounds for summit sessions16:14
DuncanT-mobTaskflow and ollie/my state taslk might be combinable16:15
jgriffithDuncanT-mob: yeah, I would like to explore that16:15
jgriffiththink it would be good to have those talks simultaneously, just worried about fitting it all in time wise16:15
DuncanT-mobI've been talking to harlowja and combining ideas16:15
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jgriffithyeah, that's awesome!16:16
jgriffithI don't know how much additional harlowja has there16:16
jgriffithbut there are other topics that overlap as well16:16
jgriffithlike where do we go next (ie delete, backup etc) for taskflow16:16
winston-dwho proposed this topic?   Is he/she asking for a Q&A session or what?16:16
jgriffithanyway... there's a lot there I think16:16
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caitlin56My proposal slightly overlaps with Avishay's16:17
thingeewinston-d: I was wondering the same thing16:17
jgriffithwinston-d: thingee good question16:17
DuncanT-mob might be talking about per-volume settings .v. per volume type settings...16:17
thingeedoesn't seem appropriate for the summit16:17
avishaycaitlin56: your proposal is great and i'm really interested in it, but not sure how much overlap there is with replication16:18
jgriffithI don't know who Alex Jauch is either16:18
jgriffithhmmm... he has a couple proposals that don't really *fit*16:18
jgriffithseems to be a lack of understanding of existing architecture/purpose16:19
jgriffithanyway... I'll see if I can track him down and clear some of those things up16:19
jgriffithanything anybody kicking around that they want to get on the list quickly?16:19
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DuncanT-mobUnconference sessions are always a poossibility16:19
jgriffithDuncanT-mob: yeah, that worked really well in SanDiego16:20
jgriffithDuncanT-mob: didn't have quite as good a luck with them in Portland16:20
jgriffithie don't think we really had them in Portland :(16:20
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caitlin56How much time is there for unconference sessions that don't conflict with Cinder sessions?16:21
jgriffithOk, not much else to say here, unless yall want to start going through these as a group effort?16:21
jgriffithcaitlin56: unconf sessions are the same length/duration16:21
thingeejgriffith: lets move it to #openstack-cinder16:21
thingeeafter meeting16:21
jgriffithcaitlin56: it's just a matter of getting a room16:21
avishaythingee: +116:21
jgriffithand coordinating everyone16:21
jgriffiththingee: +216:21
jgriffithOk, I had state machine on the agenda, but I think that's premature to open up in meeting time16:22
jgriffithDuncanT-mob: ollie and harlowja are all working on things here16:22
jgriffithso that's likely enough for now16:22
DuncanT-mobIndeed, I've nothing much to say on the subject orther than I've been working on it and talking to harlowja about geting it into taskflow16:22
jgriffithfair enough16:23
DuncanT-mob(sorry, lagged)16:23
jgriffithOkie Dokie16:23
jgriffith#topic open-mic16:23
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zhiyanDuncanT-mob: any design draft can share with me?16:23
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DuncanT-mobzhylan: When I'm not mobile, yes. There's an etherpad and some scratch code16:24
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caitlin56I have a general question/concern and wanted to understand the history. A lot of nova people seem to think of cinder as "external storage" and prefer "native" hypervisor based storage.16:24
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zhiyanDuncanT-mob: cool. can you ping the link to me? thanks16:24
jgriffithcaitlin56: yes they do16:24
caitlin56What can we do to discourage this. It can be wasteful, like they were talking about authenticating glimpse clones totally independent of cinder's existing cloning capabilities.16:25
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jgriffithcaitlin56: keep providing and improving things like boot from volume for starters16:25
DuncanT-mobCode was written by me so ugly as sin, just so you're wared ;-)16:25
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caitlin56Is cinder ready to state "you should be using Cinder for all volume services" if not, what is lacking?16:26
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jgriffithcaitlin56: I don't think that's something that would work16:26
jgriffithcaitlin56: not that I would mind16:26
jgriffithcaitlin56: but it's just not realistic16:27
caitlin56jgriffith: would't work politically or wouldn't work technically?16:27
winston-dcinder is all for volume, nova folks even want cinder to manage native local disks during last summit16:27
jgriffithboth, but mostly politically16:27
jgriffithwinston-d: +116:27
zhiyanDuncanT-mob: actually i'm interested in what's your plan for taskflow-statemachine16:27
jgriffithcaitlin56: I think we're getting there, and will continue to make progress16:27
jgriffithbut you'll never convince everybody that they don't *need* some on-server disk storage16:28
zhiyanDuncanT-mob: if you have any design doc/wiki, it will be great.16:28
jgriffiththat by the way was the whole idea that started brick16:28
jgriffithbefore it got horribly side-tracked16:28
* jgriffith apologizes for that16:28
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caitlin56jgriffith: I was more thinking of opposing enhanciung non-cinder storage -- such as the "certified clone" feature being discussed.16:28
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jgriffithcaitlin56: I'm not familiar with that16:29
winston-djgriffith and hemnafk and eharney did great job on brick during H16:29
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caitlin56They want to check out clones directly from glimpse and effectively sign them for the hypervisors to use.16:29
jgriffithwinston-d: yeah... kudos to hemnafk eharney and everyone who worked on it16:29
jgriffithI just didn't manage/communicate things well16:29
jgriffithcaitlin56: hmm... not sure about that.  But the work zhiyan has been doing should help get that sort of thing going in Cinder16:30
avishaycaitlin56: do you have a link to a blueprint or something?  i'm not aware of this16:30
caitlin56jgriffith: I'll forward it to you.16:30
jgriffithcaitlin56: but they'll still want the locality feature of the image16:30
jgriffithcaitlin56: if you have a link post it here or in cinder later16:30
jgriffithI'm sure others are interested as well16:30
caitlin56You can never get anything to retreat, but keeping it from growing may be doable.16:31
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jgriffithcaitlin56: yeah... sometimes just go with the flow though :)16:32
jgriffithOk, anybody have anything else?16:32
DuncanT-mob caitlin: Somebody needs to code up the cinder-equivilant16:32
jgriffithDuncanT-mob: +116:32
jgriffithwhich I'm sure we can do if we understand what they're tryign to accomplish16:32
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jgriffithI suspect it's part of the glance/cinder/RO work16:33
avishayor they should just code it in cinder to begin with?16:33
jgriffithavishay: well there's that :)16:33
jgriffithlet's not get too anxious on this since none of us seem to be familiar with it16:33
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jgriffithwe'll figure it out16:33
jgriffithall valid points though16:33
zhiyanjgriffith: +116:34
jgriffithsilos versus project16:34
jgriffithok... that's all I've got16:34
* jgriffith is on a mission to have shorter meetings :)16:34
avishayjgriffith: stable/havana tomorrow?16:34
jgriffithavishay: not sure if it'll be tomorrow or not16:34
zhiyanavishay: good point, i just want to raise this question :)16:35
jungleboyjavishay: Good question.16:35
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avishayi already have a backport :(16:35
jgriffithavishay: yeah, there are a few16:35
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jgriffithavishay: just make sure you tag the bug so we can track it16:35
jungleboyjGotta draw the line at some point though.16:35
jgriffithavishay: and we'll get backports going asap when stable hits16:35
avishayjgriffith: yup it's tagged, sure thing16:36
jgriffithjungleboyj: +1, and it's been drawn16:36
jgriffithjungleboyj: although we use pencil so it can be erased16:36
caitlin56jgriffith,avishay: Avoiding Image Copying from srujana_cp on Oct 16 at 2:58 AM.16:36
avishayjgriffith: and re-drawn, and re-drawn - but that's it!16:36
jgriffithcaitlin56: ahh16:36
jgriffithcaitlin56: that's somewhat different IIRC16:36
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jgriffithOk, let's move over to #cinder for folks that have more they want to talk about16:37
jgriffiththanks everyone!16:37
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 16 16:38:02 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:38
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jungleboyjThanks.  See you in Cinder16:38
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tjoneshi folks - anyone around?17:00
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tjonesi'll wait a minute or 2 for people to join.  many vmw people at vmworld this week17:01
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tjoneslistening to crickets....17:02
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tjoneshello hello…..17:03
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tjonesanyone here?17:05
tjoneshi yaguang17:05
tjoneslooks like just you and me but i'll go ahead and start17:05
tjones#startmeeting VMwareAPI17:06
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 16 17:06:00 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:06
danfloreaI'm here to listen17:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:06
tjoneshi dan17:06
tjonesanyone else lurking about?17:06
tjonesok looks like this will be a short meeting ;-)  Lets get started17:06
* dims lurking17:07
tjones1st i'd like to mention that i've submitted a proposal for the icehouse design summit for vmware roadmap.  The link is here
tjoneshi dims17:08
danfloreaThanks for doing that Tracy17:08
tjonesfeel free to take a look at this and at the etherpad that gives a little more info.  The deadline for proposals is 10/17 BTW17:08
yaguangI am interested in the improvement for live migration17:08
yaguangAFAIK live migrations cann't works  with latest Havana + VCenter17:09
tjonesgreat yaguang - we can use some help in getting more detailed info on this17:09
tjonesgaryk mentioned that as well.17:10
yaguanga bug report is here,
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1192192 in nova "Nova initiated Live Migration regression for vmware VCDriver" [Medium,Confirmed]17:10
dimstjones, i would love some programmable pluggability to select the datastore and compute node (specific ESXi inside vCenter) for deployment and migration17:10
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tjonesdims - what is the use case you are thinking of here?17:12
dimssay someone wants to evacuate a ESXi host for maintenance, i'd like them to be able to use nova cli to move vm(s) to other compute nodes17:13
tjonesyaguang - yes that is the bug for live migration.  Can you help with a BP on this?17:13
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yaguangtjones, sure17:14
dansmithdims: if we exposed one nova compute per ESX host (like we should be doing, IMHO) then this would be natural, right?17:14
dansmithdims: i.e., you can do this on kvm/xen because they use one compute per hypervisor, as nova was intended17:15
tjonesdims: when you put a host in maint mode - VC should move the VMs already though - am i missing something?17:15
dimsdansmith, right. just like (
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dansmithdims: exactly, which is why I don't like the hide-a-cluster-behind-a-compute model :)17:16
tjonesdansmith - hence your other question earlier to me ;-)17:16
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dansmithtjones: yes, actually, although I was going somewhere else with that :)17:16
dimstjones, will draw pictures when we get near a board :)17:16
tjonesdims - ok that's in HK then :-D17:17
tjonesdims: please go ahead and add that to the etherpad and we can discuss further17:17
dimsthanks tjones17:18
tjonesok any other topics on the design summit?17:18
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danfloreaI think there are also some topics around Glance/image handling17:19
tjonesdanflorea: should we add that to our etherpad as well ?17:20
tjonesand if so - will you?17:20
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danfloreaI would think that there should be a separate etherpad for them17:20
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danfloreaIf we want a combined etherpad I guess that works too?17:21
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tjonesare we covering that in our nova discussion or will there be a separate glance topic?  Perhaps it would be helpful to just link to that.  I don't want to get too much and i also don't want to miss anything.  We need to prioritize17:22
danfloreaThey should be separate glance topics17:23
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tjonesok good - anything else on the design summit?17:23
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vuilhi, just checked in17:24
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tjoneshi viul:17:24
tjonesOk - anyone have a BP for discussion today?17:24
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tjonesfor this week - lets try to flesh out our ideas in the etherpad for the design summit and we can discuss them next week.  Moving on to bugs.17:26
tjones#topic bugs17:26
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:26
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tjonesI don't see anything critical here17:28
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vuilI just filed one yesterday about sparse disk spawn issue.17:29
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1240373 in nova "VMware: Sparse glance vmdk's size property is mistaken for capacity" [High,New]17:29
vuilif glance lies about the image's capacity, we will incorrect attempt to extend a disk to flavor size when we can't17:30
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vuilThe are reasonable workarounds17:31
tjonesviul: nice ;-)17:31
vuilbut there should be something we can do on driver side to better handle this as well.17:32
tjonesok im going to confirm that one17:32
vuilwas going to suggest just that.17:32
tjonesany bugs we want to review before triaging the new bugs?17:32
tjonesi see that we still have quite a few that need +1 reviews17:33
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tjonesnothing is waiting for core - so this is on us to get ready for them.  Please spend some time this week reviewing.17:34
tjonesSeveral need an update too17:34
tjonesshall i move on to bug triage?17:35
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tjones#topic new bugs17:35
*** openstack changes topic to "new bugs (Meeting topic: VMwareAPI)"17:35
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1237795 in nova "VMware: restarting nova compute reports invalid instances" [High,New]17:37
tjonesthis one was opened by garyk (who is in barcelona today)17:38
tjoneshe said it was on grizzly and havana both17:38
vuilwanted to find out more from Gary on this one17:38
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tjonesok i'll spend some time looking at this today17:38
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1237795 in nova "VMware: restarting nova compute reports invalid instances" [High,New]17:38
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tjonesi'm assuming his cluster is containing both VC created and OS created VMs.  Is that a valid use case?   I mean - of course you can do it - but is it a likely senario?17:40
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vuilYeah I think it should be17:41
vuilI see the review posted fixes the instance list reporting17:41
vuiljust wondering if there is more to the bug.17:41
danfloreaI think this would completely break HA17:41
tjoneshee hee - im looking at the wrong bug17:42
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vuilhow so, dan?17:42
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1240200 in nova "VMware ESX driver reports incorrect metrics for memory, disk and cpu usage" [High,New]17:42
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openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Link object at 0x30f3650>17:43
tjonessorry - moved on too fast.  Dan - you have a comment about
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1237795 in nova "VMware: restarting nova compute reports invalid instances" [High,New]17:43
danfloreaYes. HA may require us to restart the controller, which includes the nova-compute agent. If that doesn't work correctly, HA will not work.17:44
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tjoneslets discuss that more in the bug report - i want to get through the other bugs and we are running out of time.17:46
tjonesnext is #link
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1240200 in nova "VMware ESX driver reports incorrect metrics for memory, disk and cpu usage" [High,New]17:46
smurugesanThe user see s the stats from the hypervisor page, which will report the usage stats from the instances perspective.17:48
smurugesanthe audit logs should report the hypervisor s view of stats17:48
smurugesanwe need to get that information to check if it's right.17:48
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tjonesok do you want to confirm that one if its not correct?  The reporter is working on it - but it's not confirmed17:50
smurugesanI will update the bug, it's not a bug with the driver.17:50
tjonesnext 2 are still waiting for updates from the submitter17:50
tjoneslast one was reported by our QE guy - sabari i think you were looking at it ?  #link
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1240292 in nova "vmware: Error in logging causing vcdriver report 0 resources" [Undecided,New]17:51
smurugesanYes, it s an intermittent issue. Mostly a suds error (need to check). Has happened once during one of the periodic reporting17:52
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tjoneswe have a little time left  - #topic open discussion17:53
tjonesirc:// open discussion17:53
tjonesanything anyone wants to bring up?  BTW - Shawn should be back next week17:54
vuilhuge thanks for filling in, and great job!17:55
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tjonesok i guess we are done this week.  Thanks all!17:56
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 16 17:57:13 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:57
openstackMinutes (text):
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SumitNaiksatamabout to start the Neutron FWaaS Meeting18:00
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: howdy!18:00
SumitNaiksatam#startmeeting Networking FWaaS18:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 16 18:01:15 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is SumitNaiksatam. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'networking_fwaas'18:01
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Hi18:01
SumitNaiksatamWelcome to the first IRC Firewall as a Service meeting! :-)18:01
SumitNaiksatamif you are here for the FWaaS meeting say Hi!18:01
SumitNaiksatamjust want to get a feel for who is here18:02
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SumitNaiksatamlets give it a couple of more minutes18:02
SumitNaiksatamKanzhe: hi!18:02
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SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: hi18:03
SumitNaiksatamjust waiting for any more folks to join18:04
salv-orlandois this the first meeting of a regular series?18:04
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SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: probably regular before the summit18:04
salv-orlandook, thanks18:04
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: after that we can decide the frequency18:04
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SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: try to avoid too many meetings :-)18:05
SumitNaiksatamok so, we are 5 mins past18:05
SumitNaiksatamlets get started18:05
SumitNaiksatamwe have had several face-to-face meetings in the bay area before, and its nice to reach out to even more people now18:05
SumitNaiksatamtoday's meeting is to prep for the Icehouse summit discussions/sessions18:05
SumitNaiksatamwe have some activity going on the etherpad:18:06
SridarKwill be back online in couple of mins18:06
SumitNaiksatami propose using these pre-summit meetings to gather requirements and prioritize them18:06
SumitNaiksatam#topic tempest18:07
*** openstack changes topic to "tempest (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:07
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SumitNaiksatamsince we as a Neutron team want to emphasize on testing lets talk about this a bit first18:07
SumitNaiksatamthis is an open area18:07
SumitNaiksatam(a) we need to decide what tests to add18:07
SumitNaiksatam(b) who/how will do it?18:08
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SumitNaiksatamnot sure if any folks from tempest/testing are here18:08
SumitNaiksatamright now we don't have tempest coverage for FWaaS18:08
SumitNaiksatamok seems like an obvious thing to do :-)18:09
SumitNaiksatamany volunteers?18:09
SumitNaiksatamlooks like we will have to talk to the neutron/tempest gurus on this18:10
SumitNaiksatami believe there is going to be a common session for Neutron/tempest18:10
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SumitNaiksatammoving on18:10
SumitNaiksatam#topic service_type framework and insertion18:11
*** openstack changes topic to "service_type framework and insertion (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:11
salv-orlandoI have been talking with tempest people, but I reckon we need also somebody from the team who contributed fw code18:11
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: agree18:12
SumitNaiksatamonce we can decide what is the minimal set of steps to start with, we can get on it18:12
salv-orlandoload balancing and vpn contributors also pushed API tests into tempest, which is a good start18:12
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salv-orlandothe API tests are the minimal set of tests18:12
SumitNaiksatamok, we can follow that lead18:12
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salv-orlandoand then you can implement scenario tests which also validate the agent correctly enforces the rule18:13
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: can we sync up offline to exchange how the team can go about this?18:13
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: thanks18:13
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SumitNaiksatam#action SumitNaiksatam to sync with salv-orlando on tempest18:13
garyduanFor service type framework, currently in havana, we only have one plugin per service with multiple driver mode, right?18:13
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: yes18:13
SumitNaiksatamlike LBaaS (and VPNaaS currently in review) we should be extending support for FWaaS for service_type framework18:14
garyduanfor FWaaS, is this the path we plan to do?18:14
SumitNaiksatami have a place holder bp for this:18:14
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SumitNaiksatamthere is a parallel discussion going on about insertion18:14
SumitNaiksatamas the discussion converges we can add support for the router level insertion18:15
SumitNaiksatamso that we don't have to apply the reference implementation firewall to all the routres18:15
SumitNaiksatamlike we are currently doing18:15
garyduanDo we plan to support multi-service, multi-plugin mode?18:15
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: i think that is a question for the "advance service common requirements" dicussion18:16
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: we will have follow up meetings for that, we can bring this up during that time18:16
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SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: as for fwaas, it will be expressed as a an independent service in the service_provider configuration18:17
SridarKWe would also want to be able deploy a FW as L3 or L2 so again a usecase  for the service insertion discussion18:17
KanzheSridarK: +1. good point.18:17
SumitNaiksatamSridarK Kanzhe : agree, hence having the insertion/chaining discussion in parallel18:18
SumitNaiksatamand also with the VPN and LBaaS team18:18
SumitNaiksatamhoping to converge :-)18:18
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SumitNaiksatamok next topic18:18
SumitNaiksatam#topic revisit firewall to firewall_policy association18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "revisit firewall to firewall_policy association (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:18
SumitNaiksatamthis was being discussed as the "commit operation" patch before18:19
SumitNaiksatamit did not make it into H18:19
SumitNaiksatamyou can check out the bp:18:19
SumitNaiksatamand the referenced patch to see the discussion on this18:20
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SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: i believe you were referring to startup and running config18:20
beyounnshould we really allow policy sharing?18:20
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SumitNaiksatambeyounn: we can discuss this18:20
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: do you mean more than one firewall to use the same firewall_policy?18:21
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salv-orlandoI think here "sharing" might be intended as reuse, If I'm not wrong18:21
garyduanI also think if there is no policy sharing, there would be no confusion18:21
beyounnand inside the same tenant18:21
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: yes18:21
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KanzheUser has the choice to share or not. Sumit's proposal is to enable both.18:22
SridarKthere is a use case with a provider enforcing some set of rules to be used by tenants18:22
SridarKand the tenants can add to that with tenant specific rules18:23
SumitNaiksatambeyounn garyduan: so the suggestion is to make the firewall to firewall_policy association 1:1?18:23
garyduanthis couples with zone and other fw objects18:23
garyduanif we add them into fw rules18:23
KanzheFor the use cases where policy sharing makes sense, it would have to be cloned and then somehow synchronize multiple policies.18:23
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: zone is a separate topic (also on the agenda :-) lets hold a little bit)18:24
garyduanin most cases, the rule/policy is unlikely shareable18:24
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: that is not always the case18:24
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: if we have support for dynamic objects, that will make it less specific and more shareable18:25
garyduanI agree there are cases sharing is prefered18:25
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SumitNaiksatamthe use cases, for example that we heard from the paypal guys, they said that they create policy once18:26
SumitNaiksatamand then apply it in several places18:26
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SumitNaiksatamso sharing was felt necessary, both within tenant, and across tenants18:26
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beyounnSumit, that maybe for the chaining case18:27
SumitNaiksatamin general, it was felt that have to create a new policy for every firewall is very cumbersome and unwieldy18:27
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SumitNaiksatamnote that the policy can have several thousands of rules18:27
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: sorry, i did not get the context of the chain18:27
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beyounnSumit, can paypal guy give some detail?18:28
SumitNaiksatamits actually documented in the first fwaas specification18:29
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SridarKbeyounn: Due to Audit and compliance reasons too, our customer inputs have also been along the same lines - regarding making any changes to policies18:30
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SumitNaiksatami think Kanzhe pointed out somewhere earlier in this thread - the team felt that it was important to be able to support one firewall policy to many firewalls association18:32
SumitNaiksatamit still allows 1:1 association if required18:32
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SumitNaiksatamat any rate, beyounn, garyduan do you want to take a look at the blueprint and the patch, and provide your suggestions?18:32
SumitNaiksatamwe tried to find some middle ground18:33
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SumitNaiksatamthere are some concerns around that solution and we need to resolve those18:33
beyounnSumit, sure18:33
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: thanks18:33
SumitNaiksatamnext topic18:33
SumitNaiksatam#topic zones18:34
*** openstack changes topic to "zones (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:34
garyduanI read the patch, the commit action is effectively like a clone in the database18:34
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: not a clone, its more like running config18:34
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: we can discuss as follow up18:34
SumitNaiksatamso zones18:34
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: Zones is of definite interest for us as well18:34
garyduanSumitNaiksatam: thanks18:34
SumitNaiksatamSridarK garyduan: yes this is of interest to lots of people18:35
SridarKWe definitely want to get the support in18:35
SumitNaiksatamthe problem is that everyone defines it in a different way (well not everyone, but there are different opinions on this)18:35
SridarKyes as u had mentioned18:35
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SumitNaiksatamso our first task will be to find out a crisp definition18:35
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: agree18:36
SridarKwe could work towards finding common ground18:36
SridarKsomething generic enough so vendor plugins can add minimal tweaks18:36
SumitNaiksatammost firewall vendors seem to define these in terms of "interfaces"18:36
SumitNaiksatamthese are interfaces on their network devices18:36
SridarKwe will probab also have dependencies on Service insertions work18:36
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: good point18:37
SridarKyes interfaces seem to be fairly common ground18:37
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: true, but we don't model switch interfaces in neutron18:37
SumitNaiksatamwe have the virtual port absrtaction18:37
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: we will need to see how we can map that to some notion of  a logical i/f inside the vendor service instance18:38
SridarKis that something to think about18:38
SumitNaiksatamok, so in neutron speak are these virtual ports for a tenant?18:39
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garyduanSumitNaiksatam: Sorry, I didn't get the virtual port part?18:39
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: i was referring to the neutron port resource18:40
garyduanSumitNaiksatam: ok18:40
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan SridarK: i am not making a proposal here, just thinking aloud18:40
SridarKsame here18:40
SumitNaiksatamunfortunately we always go in circles on this18:40
garyduanzone is a group of interfaces18:41
beyounnand VR is a group of zones18:41
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan, beyounn: ok18:41
Kanzhewill there always be a 1:1 mapping between neutron logic port and FW interfaces?18:41
SumitNaiksatambut are those physical interfaces?18:41
SumitNaiksatamKanzhe: good point18:42
beyounnKanzhe, with vlan, it could be different18:42
beyounnFW normally map logic interfaces, and multple logic interfaces can anchr on same VNIC18:42
KanzheFrom the insertion perspective, I would say yes, but not quite sure with physical devices. Like SridarK mentioned, it depends on the insertion proposal.18:43
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beyounnKanzhe, what about L3 firewall?18:44
Kanzhebeyounn: I would think a logical port corresponds to a vlan+vnic.18:44
SumitNaiksatamlet's start a thread on ML to brainstorm18:45
beyounnKanzhe: right, then it is not1:118:45
SumitNaiksatam#action SumitNaiksatam send message to openstack-dev to brainstorm on zones18:45
SumitNaiksatambeyounn Kanzhe SridarK garyduan: sound okay?18:46
SridarKbeyounn: are u local bay area ?18:46
garyduanI have to understand more about service insertion vs. zone18:46
beyounnSumit, it would be great if we can have another face to face18:46
SridarKwe could even atleast get some basic thrashing btwn some of us in a face 2 face18:46
beyounnSridark, agree18:47
SumitNaiksatambeyounn: yes sure18:47
SridarKhopefully we can come to a common model18:47
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SridarKwe can then ofcourse get some broader consensus18:47
SumitNaiksatamok so (lots) more discussion needed :-)18:47
SumitNaiksatamnext topic18:47
SumitNaiksatam#topic hit counts/counters18:47
*** openstack changes topic to "hit counts/counters (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:47
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SumitNaiksatamthis is very important from an operations perspectice18:48
SumitNaiksatamalso, helps debugging18:48
SumitNaiksatamlots of people have suggested this18:48
SridarKSumitNaiksatam: agree18:49
SumitNaiksatamwe should be able to provide a hit counts for the rules18:49
SumitNaiksatamthis also another place where having the running_config for the rules might make sense18:50
SumitNaiksatamso the hit counts will be for the rules which are currently in the running_config18:50
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SridarKrunning config - Sumit u give away where u worked b4 :-)18:50
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salv-orlandofor metrics, consider whether you want to retrieve them in the same API call as the rule, or with a different cole18:51
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: good point18:51
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: whats your recommendation?18:51
salv-orlandothey can put quite a lot of strain on the backend, so I'd go with a different URI18:51
SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: ok18:51
salv-orlandounless you mandate drivers to always update the server-side counters, which might be bad too18:51
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SumitNaiksatamsalv-orlando: agree that should not be mandated18:52
SridarKsalv-orlando: perhaps a periodic sync - less accurate at the instant but will be ok overall18:52
SumitNaiksatamhowever, i do envision a UI where you see the rules and the counts next to those18:52
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SumitNaiksatammaybe something as basic as what you see with iptables18:53
garyduanalso, history of hits are useful too.18:53
KanzheI agree different API might be more flexible.18:54
SumitNaiksatamgaryduan: ok, you want to drive this? :-)18:54
SumitNaiksatamkidding, we can decide all that later18:54
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SumitNaiksatamok so this seems useful in the list of priorities18:55
SumitNaiksatamwe can revisit this, anything more to add now?18:55
SumitNaiksatamwe are running short on time18:55
SumitNaiksatamnext topic18:55
SumitNaiksatam#topic vendor drivers18:55
*** openstack changes topic to "vendor drivers (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:55
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SumitNaiksatamI can currently see this:18:55
SumitNaiksatamAlso know that vArmour has a few patches currently in review, anything else planned?18:56
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SumitNaiksatami am asking from the perspective of any specific requirements that vendors might have to support their drivers18:56
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SridarKSumitNaiksatam: yes just added - again some dependency on the services insertion discussion18:56
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: ok good to know18:57
KanzheI believe Sonicwall is working on its driver.18:57
SumitNaiksatamSridarK: hopefully you will be able to convey that in the discussion18:57
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SumitNaiksatamKanzhe: thanks, i did not see blueprint18:57
SridarKalso some of the discussion on how we get the driver in - perhaps some the L3 Agent refactoring that Nachi was talking abt may play into this as well18:57
SumitNaiksatam#topic Summit sessions18:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit sessions (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:57
SumitNaiksatamWe will most likely have a super session18:58
SumitNaiksatamso we can try to collect our thoughts in this forum18:58
SumitNaiksatamso far FWaaS team has worked great as a team (many thanks!!!)18:58
SumitNaiksatamso i think we can try and continue this collaboration into the summit18:58
SumitNaiksatam2 mins left18:59
SumitNaiksatam#topic other topics of interest18:59
*** openstack changes topic to "other topics of interest (Meeting topic: Networking FWaaS)"18:59
SumitNaiksatamwe can meet the next week, same time18:59
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SumitNaiksatamhopefully those who missed out today can also chime in19:00
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SumitNaiksatamok thanks much everyone for participating19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 16 19:00:29 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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stevebaker#startmeeting heat20:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Oct 16 20:00:10 2013 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevebaker. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:00
stevebaker#topic rollcall20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: heat)"20:00
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stevebakerno zane, must be enjoying paris20:01
stevebaker#topic Review last week's actions20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Review last week's actions (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
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stevebakerlooks like no action items, that was easy!20:02
stevebaker#topic Havana release status20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Havana release status (Meeting topic: heat)"20:02
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stevebakershardy: would you like to give an update?20:03
shardySo RC2 is out, only critical release blockers will trigger another RC now20:03
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shardyPlease keep testing, and tag any potential release blocker bugs with havana-rc-potential20:03
stevebakernice, well done everyone20:03
shardyother less critical stuff can be havana-backport-potential, and we'll handle it it the next stable/havana release20:04
shardyYup, great job all! :)20:04
stevebaker#topic release notes20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "release notes (Meeting topic: heat)"20:04
stevebakershardy has started updating the wiki20:05
shardySo I made a start on the wiki20:05
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stevebakerI did some stuff on the etherpad earlier20:05
stevebakershardy: did you base that on the etherpad?20:05
asalkeldetherpad not happy20:05
asalkeldwon't connect20:05
stevebakertry refreshing20:05
shardystevebaker: actually not really..20:05
shardystevebaker: I'll take an action to sync etherpad with wiki20:06
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shardy#action shardy to sync Havana release notes etherpad with wiki20:06
stevebakerthe etherpad has a few more practical details in the upgrade notes20:07
shardyOk, cool, thanks20:07
* SpamapS adds a few details on the limits added20:07
stevebakershould we be detailing interesting new configuration options?20:07
radixoops, here20:08
shardyI think put as much detail as you like in the etherpad, and if it's getting too much, I'll link it from the wiki20:08
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sdake_stevebaker I think that might be a little much20:08
stevebakerI guess that detail should go in the install guide20:09
asalkeldmajor issue is did we remove any20:09
asalkeld(config options)20:09
shardyWe want to capture the info somewhere tho, while we still remember the details :)20:09
sdake_shardy that is what the git is for ;)20:09
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stevebakertrawling the git history of heat.conf.sample is pretty useful20:09
shardyI say add it to the wiki, and I'll pick the highlights for the wiki20:09
shardyat least then it's written down20:10
sdake_what would be interesting is a listing of all config options20:10
shardysdake_: A lot of users won't want to trawl git to get overview info IMO20:10
sdake_i guess thats the install guide20:10
shardysdake_: You mean like heat.conf.sample?20:10
sdake_does that have all of them?20:10
shardysdake_: yup20:11
sdake_nm then20:11
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shardysdake_: that's the cool thing, it's sync'd via a script now20:11
shardywell you have to run the script, but..20:11
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SpamapSTO me release notes are "here is what might not be obvious about the new release"20:12
shardySpamapS: Yeah, that's what needs to end up in the wiki20:12
shardySpamapS: but we can pool info in the etherpad to get there :)20:12
SpamapSYes, put it all in the etherpad and then put summaries of things in the actual release notes.20:13
stevebakerYes, if you've implemented blueprints or features, you're probably the best person to write the release notes to draw attention to them20:13
SpamapSlike we don't have to say the actual config limits that were added, but "Several configuration options were added to limit user impact on the heat engine service." works.20:13
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stevebaker#topic Summit session proposals20:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Summit session proposals (Meeting topic: heat)"20:14
sdake_holy cripola20:15
SpamapSso many20:15
stevebakerClick on the Topic column twice to make it reverse order, then scroll down20:15
sdake_heathas like 20 sessions20:15
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stevebakerWe have 9 slots and 19 session proposals20:15
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sdake_stevebaker the web ui should allow you to merge sessions20:16
kebrayAny hope of running two tracks?20:16
kebrayguessing we only have one room.20:16
sdake_or give folks half time for one session20:16
stevebakerI don't have teh powerz to review sessions yet20:16
stevebakerbut will ask20:17
shardystevebaker: I do, we can coordinate20:17
sdake_ya recommend getting soon running out of time20:17
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stevebakerI don't think an optimal program can be built by committee, so I'll be doing some merging and culling then will be asking for further feedback just in case anyone thinks their topic is under represented20:17
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kebraystevebaker there was an ether pad that had started some of the organizational notes... I'll look for the link.20:18
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radixI kinda think the summit isn't going to scale well for all the discussion that needs to happen.20:19
SpamapSstevebaker: I'm sure a few of those can be solved with ML discussions.20:19
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stevebakersome smaller topics might get merged into other sessions, with strict time limits20:19
radixwhat do you guys think of g+ hangouts?20:19
asalkeldfor what?20:20
sdake_radix asalkeld would have to brush his hair20:20
SpamapSsessions are for "we need to get in a room and talk about the impact/ideas/etc". Some of those sessions are going to get a JFDI from all of us if proposed on the ML.20:20
stevebakerso yes, put any thoughts in the etherpad or the summit session comments20:20
shardyradix: prefer ML as it's persistent, and more inclusive20:20
radixhehe :) well video isn't required20:20
SpamapSshardy: G+ hangouts can be saved as youtube videos20:21
radixright, and we can take minutes20:21
shardySpamapS: but they're limited participation20:21
SpamapSbut they are exclusive of sleeping timezones20:21
radixbasically ml has not been as effective as I hoped for certain conversations20:21
stevebakerany new resources or updating resources for new features will be JFDI, so sessions might not be necessary for them unless it is to divvy out responsibility20:21
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SpamapSshardy: I think there are plenty of things that don't need more than 10 speakers.20:21
radixlike we still need more discussion in the AS/LB thread20:22
SpamapSThe ML should be the first place to discuss though.20:22
radixbut I guess I just need to make more noise20:22
asalkeldalso there are other slots we can using in the week20:22
SpamapSIf it feels like the issue is too contentious to discuss in a faceless ML manner, then hangouts are a viable option IMO.20:23
shardySpamapS: I'm not against that, I just think ML first, and with the summit only a couple of weeks away, I figure we can discuss most stuff there20:23
asalkeldradix, you can always bug me on g+ if you want20:23
shardyeven if it's over beer rather than in the sessions20:23
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stevebakerdoes anyone have session proposals they haven't got around to submitting yet?20:23
SpamapSYeah, beer/breakouts/etc.20:23
SpamapSI like to exhaust all other means before the summit though, so the summit is just the stuff we really do need face time for.20:23
radixman, I'm sad I'm not going. but I won't miss the flying :)20:23
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stevebakerradix: oh, I thought you were20:24
shardystevebaker: I did consider one re auth stuff, but I think I've pretty much got that under control now20:24
shardybasically fix-all-the-keystone-things20:24
stevebakerradix: maybe I assumed you were because you've proposed 2 sessions ;)20:25
SpamapSI do have an idea forming that I will need probably in the icehouse timeframe.. but I'm not sure I'll have it fleshed out enough before the summit to talk about it there.20:25
radixhehe, yeah. Thomas and Randall should be able to cover for me20:25
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stevebakercool, ok20:25
* randallburt will be radix for the summit20:26
SpamapSIt involves update flow control at a somewhat lower level than the rolling update proposal I also hope to discuss.20:26
SpamapSrolling update proposal I salso hope to implement :-P20:26
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stevebakerSpamapS: beer track, if nothing else20:27
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stevebakerI'll aim to have a list of 9 for next week's meeting so we can actually go through each proposed session20:28
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sdake_sounds good stevebaker20:28
stevebaker#action stevebaker to review all summit proposals and reduce to 9 sessions20:28
stevebakeranything else on summit?20:28
asalkeldstevebaker, maybe also make a list for extra slots20:28
sdake_asalkled idea is to combine sessions where possible20:29
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SpamapSstevebaker: if we can actually only have 8 defined before hand..20:29
asalkeldthere are ones you can sign up for20:29
SpamapSstevebaker: never fails by the 3rd session we have a need for another.20:29
asalkeldbreakout rooms I think they call them20:29
stevebakerasalkeld: I assume there will be some kind of whiteboard signup for breakouts - maybe we should leave that for submitters if they think the session is needed20:30
asalkeldwe will need more for hot + software config20:30
SpamapSIts a bit of a surprise to me that we are limited to 9. At ubuntu dev summits, there were always at least 4 empty slots per track.20:31
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stevebakerSpamapS: yeah, maybe 8 + 1 for topic overflow20:31
SpamapSBy day 2 they're all filled (and not with breakout type stuff.. with "doh we forgot about that we need to talk to everybody about this")20:31
SpamapSanyway, I understand if it isn't possible, but just a thought. :)20:32
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stevebaker#topic HOT software configuration20:32
*** openstack changes topic to "HOT software configuration (Meeting topic: heat)"20:32
stevebakerI sent out an email yesterday with20:33
asalkeldI also made one #link
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stevebakermaybe the ML is the best place to continue that discussion, but if there are things to discuss in realtime then now is a good chance20:34
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sdake_whats with the 4220:34
sdake_meaning of life? :)20:34
randallburtthe universe?20:34
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SpamapSsdake_: 6*720:34
stevebakerand there will be (at least) a summit session about this, but it would be nice if we were some way down the track in reaching a consensus20:34
asalkelddoesn't really matter, just splating some ideas down20:35
SpamapSI think the ML discussion is going well and your proposal has definitely helped guide the discussion with actual concrete examples.20:35
lrenganIf there is interest I would like a discussion about cross-vm synchronization and data exchange20:35
lrenganstevebaker: I really like several elements of your proposal20:36
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stevebakerlrengan: I do think that is out of scope for those blueprints, but it is the next Big Problem to solve20:37
lrenganI am wondering the possibility of including a higher-level synchronization construct20:37
sdake_use case?20:37
lrenganin the ML there seems to some consensus emerging about this20:37
SpamapSmy feeling on that is that it can easily be implemented as a standalone service and would be extremely useful even without Heat.20:38
stevebakerThe thing is, everybody who has implemented their own orchestration has an opinion on this - and that seems to be a lot of people ;)20:38
asalkeldwe can't just add features from all  of them20:38
asalkeldelse we will have a mess20:38
lrenganSpamapS: I agree it can be implemented as a separate service, but I think if Heat is serious about support software config it has have some mechanisms that it can reason about20:39
SpamapSagreed, we can, however, add an interface which all of them can implement. :)20:39
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lrenganHeat picks an order for creation of resources and if the ordering and synchronization among the software is not exposed to Heat20:40
tspatzierI think we need to define the core primtives that have to be added to Heat / HOT to support that potential higher-level service, and which would work for other such implementations as well20:40
asalkeldlrengan, I think you need to flesh out how this would look in Heat20:40
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asalkeldwhat would a template look like20:41
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asalkeldwhat code changes would be needed etc..20:41
stevebakerbut also how it would be implemented20:41
m4dcoder_and using a concrete example in the template20:41
shardyasalkeld: I agree, concrete example, interfaces and proposals for features are what we need atm20:41
lrenganyes, I can provide those details.20:41
SpamapSI have some ideas how it could look in HOT using Steve's component system. As Zane alluded to though, it shouldn't be "here's how Puppet talks to Heat" but "here's a handle random thing. Hit me with my API there."20:41
tspatzieryes, lrengan can you draft a template that shows the element you think would be needed in a template?20:41
asalkeldat the moment it is really hard to figure out what you suggestion is really20:41
lrenganI do have an prototype implementation with some info captured in the metadata section in Heat20:42
lrenganthe prototype uses zookeeper20:42
lrenganHowever, neither of these choices are required20:42
asalkeldso lrengan we support Heat in standalone20:42
asalkeldwhere heat is not installed in the cloud20:43
lrenganthere are several alternatives one can pursue … for example, replace zookeeper by the heat metadata service20:43
asalkeldwe might also want to support multi cloud20:43
asalkeldjust keep that in mind20:43
sdake_good, i am really negative about zookeeper as a dependency20:43
shardylrengan: you mean heat resource metadata?20:43
SpamapSFor me, I struggle to think of a deployment that doesn't have a 3 part initialization sync that looks something like this: "create it. tell other side about it. enable access for other side to it"20:43
shardythere is no heat metadata service anymore20:43
SpamapSnot necessarily in that order :)20:43
sdake_SpamapS I think that requires an agent on both ends to configure the nodes20:44
sdake_eg runtime config20:44
lrenganshardy: yes heat resource metadata is what I used for the proof-of-concept prototype20:44
shardylrengan: Ok, details of what you're doing would be interesting (to the ML)20:45
SpamapSsdake_: it doesn't if you can feed access details in from Heat.20:45
stevebakerlrengan: it would be interesting if you could adapt what you've done to my components proposal20:45
lrenganstevebaker: in fact, that is exactly what I was doing since morning … trying to see how it can fit into your components proposal20:46
SpamapSanyway, lets keep the ball rolling on the mailing list, I think it has gone well, and we should continuet hat discussion there.20:46
stevebakershould we put a pin in this for now?20:46
stevebaker#topic Open discussion20:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:46
stevebakerget amongst it20:47
SpamapSjust to spitball this idea..20:47
stevebakerSpamapS has the talking stick20:48
SpamapSWe've been looking at how to upgrade openstack using images..20:48
SpamapSSo there's a case where we might have 20 nodes, and we just want Heat to replace them when we change the image..20:48
SpamapSBUT, we want the replacement to proceed like this:20:48
SpamapS* create new one20:48
SpamapS* wait for new one to signal that it is ready20:49
SpamapS* delete old one immediately20:49
SpamapSWe can't delete all of the old ones at the end, because hardware is expensive.20:49
SpamapSBut we don't want to delete the old one until it is actually ready.20:49
SpamapSIt is related to rolling updates.. as rolling updates will end up using the same mechanism. But.. well, does anybody else want it to work this way?20:50
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m4dcoder_compose an instance group dynamically and then set update policy with batch size of 120:50
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SpamapShow does that wait for the ready signal?20:51
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lrenganis this a case for a construct/feature like "replace" ?20:52
m4dcoder_yes, zane proposed to put a bp on something similar to wait for any waitcondition before next batch.20:52
stevebakerSpamapS: maybe that is another use for the new sync/messaging, and we can have some implicit messages for compute events (config starting, config done)20:52
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lrenganreplace = create new one + wait for a signal from new one + delete old one20:52
SpamapSstevebaker: I could do it relatively easily with just wait conditions as long as there is a way to zero them out on updates.20:53
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SpamapS(which, there is.. just tweak the properties and/or name to replace it each time)20:54
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SpamapSanyway, I will take the large scale silence as "haven't thought about it" and bring it up on ML soon when I'm more ready to discuss.20:54
SpamapSthat is all from me20:54
stevebakersounds like a valid use case20:55
lrenganthe deleted machine .. would you be reusing it again in the same deploy?20:55
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lrenganif so don't need to make sure the delete is complete too?20:55
SpamapSlrengan: that is nova's job.20:55
SpamapSit isn't available again in the pool until the nova driver has said the machine is deleted.20:55
lrenganok, got it.20:56
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stevebakerSpamapS: do you know if a waitcondition gets reset on server replace currently?20:57
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lrenganSpamapS: just curious: how do you handle errors for such updates?20:58
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stevebakertime to move this to #heat. Thanks everyone!20:59
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Oct 16 20:59:52 2013 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:59
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reedhi fifieldt23:10
reedhi fifieldt_23:10
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fifieldt_hi reed23:11
fifieldt_greetings from Sydney23:11
fifieldt_on 4g, so random dropouts23:12
reedtravelling eh?23:12
fifieldt_just a day here23:12
fifieldt_giving a presentation in an hour or so23:12
fifieldt_home in time for dinner23:12
fifieldt_IBM events23:12
reedyou can push changes to your affiliation on,n,z23:13
reedlike Ben did
fifieldt_jut checking though: the future is to get this from the membership db?23:13
reedyes ... not sure when that will happen23:14
reedit's already coming from there, at least most of it23:14
reedthough there is lots of manual cleanup involved so mistakes are likely to happen23:14
fifieldt_right now people are updating their affiliation in 3 places: gitdm, stackalytics and here. so far this is the least accurate :)23:15
fifieldt_we need to fix that23:15
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* fifieldt_ is tired23:17
lifelessgitdm 4 eva23:17
fifieldt_16 hour stint debugging a havana install yesterday23:18
reedfifieldt_, how do you base your statement that this is the least accurate?23:18
fifieldt_based on the experiences I have at lunch with the NeCTAR crew :)23:19
fifieldt_who are users of the software23:19
reedwhich software?23:19
fifieldt_it may be a perception issue23:19
reedyeah, indeed... it may be just a perception. Consider that the amount of people tracked in the Members db is much higher than those tracked in gitdm23:20
reedlots of new contributors in this release, whose data is not in gitdm afaik23:20
reedprobably they count for .0x% of total so it won't matter for the top contributors23:21
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reedit can only get better :)23:22
reedbtw, where are the gitdm files kept nowadays?23:22
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DaisyHello, gabrielcw23:59
ujuchi :)23:59
DaisyGood evening23:59
DaisyGood moring, ujuc23:59

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