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| sc68cal | Good morning, good afternoon, good evening :) | 13:55 |
|---|---|---|
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| sc68cal | who's all here for the ipv6 meeting? | 13:59 |
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| aveiga | o/ | 14:00 |
| baoli | hi | 14:00 |
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| haleyb | lurking :) | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 14:01:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 14:01 |
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| sc68cal | Hello everyone | 14:01 |
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| aveiga | hello | 14:01 |
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| xuhanp | hello | 14:02 |
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| shshang | hola | 14:02 |
| baoli | hello | 14:02 |
| sc68cal | #topic recap previous meeting | 14:02 |
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| sc68cal | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-04-13.59.html Previous meeting log | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | So last week, I had two items, post to the ML about our devstack config | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | and edit the horizon blueprint | 14:03 |
| sc68cal | Thankfully, someone else has taken up the horizon BP - so I'm not a SPOF on that | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | and I did post our devstack config to the mailing list | 14:04 |
| sc68cal | aveiga: you had an item to post to the ML, and I saw it yesterday yes? | 14:05 |
| aveiga | yup | 14:05 |
| aveiga | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026792.html ML discussion about modes and validation | 14:05 |
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| sc68cal | #topic blueprints | 14:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 14:05 | |
| sc68cal | Looks like we've got some good discussion about that on the ML - saw a couple e-mails this morning | 14:06 |
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| sc68cal | Do we have any blueprints, or any questions about the validation? | 14:07 |
| shshang | not so far | 14:07 |
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| xuhanp | we need new blueprints for the validation? | 14:08 |
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| aveiga | I don't think that warrants a new BP | 14:09 |
| aveiga | should be part and parcel of the API | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | +1 | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | if you guys just give me clear direction on what combos to reject, I can add it to the API validation method | 14:09 |
| sc68cal | as xuhanp commented in the review | 14:09 |
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| sc68cal | If there isn't anything else, I'll turn it over to open discussion | 14:10 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: I brought up in the ML discussion that I think the only truly invalid combos are when the RA and addr modes conflict | 14:10 |
| aveiga | example, one is set to slaac while the other is set to stateful or something | 14:11 |
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| aveiga | but we should give it a day or two for the ML to look at it | 14:11 |
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| aveiga | since this was (my apologies) only a recent discussion | 14:11 |
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| sc68cal | OK. Can the check simply be if ra_mode != address_mode -> validation error? | 14:12 |
| sc68cal | or is stateful + stateless a valid combo | 14:12 |
| aveiga | no | 14:12 |
| aveiga | because mode/off are valid | 14:12 |
| aveiga | addr = stateful, ra = off for example | 14:13 |
| sc68cal | gotcha. OK, I'll eyeball shshang 's pdf and build a table of good/bad values | 14:13 |
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| shshang | thanks, sc68cal! | 14:13 |
| aveiga | on the subjeft of the pdf, does the BP whiteboard support tables? | 14:13 |
| xuhanp | stateless and slaac is also valid | 14:14 |
| aveiga | I'd like to convert the PDF to something a bit less dependant on outside systems | 14:14 |
| shshang | it doesn't seem like. I tried it, but I cannot insert table | 14:14 |
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| sc68cal | We have a big wiki space on Openstack | 14:14 |
| aveiga | I'll try adding it to the wiki | 14:14 |
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| shshang | that may be the way to go | 14:14 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: I'm worried about that combo | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/IPv6 IPv6 Wiki | 14:14 |
| aveiga | technically, yes it's possible and it will work | 14:15 |
| aveiga | but you'll never initiate the stateless transaction without the O bit set | 14:15 |
| sc68cal | I believe the wiki supports tables :) | 14:15 |
| xuhanp | I may need to revisit the RFC to find out the details | 14:15 |
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| aveiga | xuhanp: the crux is that setting ra mode to slaac would be A=on, O/M=off | 14:16 |
| aveiga | stateless mode would be A/O=on, M=off | 14:17 |
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| xuhanp | oh, I see. So stateless by dnsmasq mean external router need to set O=on | 14:19 |
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| aveiga | xuhanp: yeah, the RA needs the O bit set | 14:19 |
| aveiga | wherever it comes from | 14:19 |
| xuhanp | so why in the table, stateless and stateless is valid? | 14:20 |
| aveiga | it should be | 14:21 |
| aveiga | stateless RA sets A and O | 14:21 |
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| aveiga | stateless addr means auto-calculate the SLAAC address, but also have dnsmasq server up DNS and other options | 14:21 |
| xuhanp | Oh. Right. I see :-) | 14:21 |
| xuhanp | it just get confusing each time I look back at the two modes :) | 14:22 |
| xuhanp | thanks for the explanation | 14:22 |
| aveiga | so if the addr mode and the RA mode are the same, it's always valid | 14:23 |
| aveiga | if either mode is off, it's also always valid | 14:23 |
| aveiga | BUT, if both are on but not the same, I think those are the only real invalid modes | 14:23 |
| aveiga | although technically ra slaac and addr stateless is functional, it just would never use the dhcp server that we'd run for no reason :-P | 14:25 |
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| sc68cal | any other blueprint stuff - otherwise I'll go to open discussion | 14:27 |
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| xuhanp | I wonder how is it going with shshang's part | 14:27 |
| xuhanp | seems still a lot of work to do | 14:28 |
| shshang | xuhanp, any specific subjects? | 14:28 |
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| xuhanp | no. Just wondering about your submitted change | 14:28 |
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| xuhanp | seems like you changed a lot of code | 14:28 |
| shshang | yes, indeed | 14:29 |
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| shshang | I saw your comments yesterday and i will clarify it | 14:29 |
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| xuhanp | thanks | 14:29 |
| shshang | but thanks for providing the comments | 14:29 |
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| xuhanp | no problem | 14:30 |
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| baoli | I have a question, if both modes are off (as indicated in the first two rows in shshang's table), Is the CIDR still required while creating the ipv6 subnet? | 14:30 |
| shshang | If you think I overlooked anything, shoot me an email | 14:30 |
| absubram | hi.. sorry just catching up on comments form earlier in the meeting.. so not all combinations of ra and address are valid huh? | 14:30 |
| aveiga | baoli: I think it should be | 14:30 |
| aveiga | absubram: nope | 14:31 |
| baoli | aveiga, can you explain why? | 14:31 |
| sc68cal | absubram: the API will return you an error if you pick a bad combo, if you're worried about the horizon bp | 14:31 |
| aveiga | because if you're creating a subnet anyway, you intend to use it | 14:31 |
| aveiga | otherwise why create it? | 14:31 |
| absubram | sc68cal: thanks! that was going to be next Q :) | 14:31 |
| aveiga | to points being made on the ML about multiple connections to the same subnet, this would deter that | 14:32 |
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| aveiga | or at leawst make it follow the validation bounds if they change them for SRIOV | 14:32 |
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| absubram | sc68cal: how are things looking on the neutron side though? see the review is still in progress? | 14:32 |
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| sc68cal | absubram: they are in progress - how are things on the horizon side? | 14:33 |
| baoli | aveiga, in that case, would the user simply say enable IPv6 on my network? | 14:33 |
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| aveiga | yes, because creating the subnet would allow for an RA to be issued from an outside source | 14:33 |
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| aveiga | perhaps a further refinement down the road would be for FWaaS to validate that the RA is on the right network or drop it | 14:34 |
| absubram | sc68cal: well I've updated the BP.. we have our weekly irc in a couple hours so will bring this up then.. let's see.. I think the only concern will be that we need to get this in after the neutron review is approved | 14:34 |
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| aveiga | so I think we should require a scope to be added for other systems to be able to do validation | 14:34 |
| aveiga | even if we aren't using them yet | 14:34 |
| shshang | absubram, thanks a bunch for taking care of horizon piece. | 14:35 |
| shshang | any risk the BP may not get in on time? | 14:35 |
| sc68cal | absubram: Agreed- but you can still start the work. I don't remember off the top of my head if undefined attributes are silently discarded or an error is raised | 14:35 |
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| absubram | sc68cal: I was also wondering.. if I did have some code ready for testing.. would one of you be able to test it just to ensure no functionality is missing? I can do some basic testing using the review diffs | 14:36 |
| shshang | absubram, I would love to help | 14:36 |
| sc68cal | absubram: yes, just pull down my review into your neutron repo for devstack | 14:36 |
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| absubram | shshang: thanks! will keep you guys updated | 14:36 |
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| shshang | absubram, please send email to the ML when your code is ready, and we can all test it | 14:37 |
| aveiga | baoli: does that make sense to you? | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | aveiga, I wonder if today's neutron code allow create subnet without any IP specified? | 14:37 |
| shshang | I know I will. | 14:37 |
| aveiga | I don't want to go spouting off | 14:37 |
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| aveiga | xuhanp: good question, I haven't validated | 14:37 |
| absubram | shshang: will do | 14:37 |
| shshang | xuhanp, I think CIDR part is mandatory | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: I don't think so | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | I can do a quick check tomorrow. | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | +1 - I think CIDR is mandatory | 14:37 |
| sc68cal | and I think ip version | 14:38 |
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| aveiga | so we should follow along with parity there, since anything developed against neutron subnets will rely on it being there by assumption | 14:38 |
| baoli | aveiga, I need to think about it. | 14:38 |
| aveiga | do you have a use case in mind? | 14:39 |
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| xuhanp | so what can we input for the CIDR if we want SLAAC IP address work with outside RA | 14:39 |
| baoli | Aveiga, I'm just thinking about the external router and service VM, etc. | 14:39 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: The correct CIDR | 14:39 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: +1 | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | we have that patch that will calculate EUI64 addresses | 14:40 |
| aveiga | baoli: it would be fine | 14:40 |
| sc68cal | so neutron will agree with the network | 14:40 |
| aveiga | you should just provide the addressing | 14:40 |
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| aveiga | meaning neutron should match what you'll be configuring with the external router | 14:40 |
| xuhanp | still a little confuse. so neutron calculate EUI64 address, but that's after the subnet create is called, right? | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: yes | 14:41 |
| sc68cal | it's when a port is created from the subnet that the EUI64 address is calculated | 14:42 |
| baoli | Aveiga, think about ipv6 prefix delegation. Would it be known beforehand the prefix for a subnet? | 14:42 |
| sc68cal | for that port | 14:42 |
| aveiga | baoli: nope, but your device could create the subnet in neutron from the delegated prefix | 14:42 |
| aveiga | after all, until it's delegated, you have no network? | 14:42 |
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| xuhanp | yes. so from the user perspective, they need to input the right prefix align with RA from external? | 14:43 |
| xuhanp | or the address in DB and in VM will mismatch, right? | 14:43 |
| shshang | xuhanp, yes | 14:44 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: it's worse than that | 14:44 |
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| aveiga | if someone sets up rules further on that validate RAs to be for the local network, it will fail | 14:44 |
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| shshang | also the iptable rule will block the traffic too | 14:46 |
| aveiga | shshang: I think the iptables rules are port specific, except forr the RA source rules which are based on single addresses | 14:46 |
| shshang | that is correct. If the CIDR you configure is different from the real one, the iptable rule won't allow traffic in or out | 14:47 |
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| baoli | ok, so it's about the iptable rules that have to be set based on the CIDR | 14:47 |
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| aveiga | baoli: it's more than just the iptables rules | 14:47 |
| aveiga | it's what neutron has to provide to other sources | 14:47 |
| aveiga | I think the answer to the PD question for now, is to crete the subnet after delegation occurs | 14:48 |
| aveiga | until we can get some work done to properly handle PD | 14:48 |
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| sc68cal | +1 - eventually we'll add support for PD so openstack does it all by itself | 14:49 |
| sc68cal | it may need to be an API extension however | 14:49 |
| sc68cal | unless I can convince them to crowbar just one more itsy bitsy change into the API ;) | 14:49 |
| aveiga | PD support is a lot of work | 14:49 |
| aveiga | since it makes the neutron network a client at that point | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | true - but Neutron was happy to be told a CIDR and when you switch off enable_dhcp it behaves nicely | 14:50 |
| sc68cal | then with the EUI64 it'd match up | 14:50 |
| baoli | Aveiga, I will take a close look at it from neutron side. | 14:51 |
| aveiga | baoli: bring it up on the ML when you find something | 14:51 |
| baoli | aveiga, sure thing | 14:51 |
| aveiga | I'd like to make sure we cover everyone's needs | 14:51 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: sort of, but neutron would have to actually run a dhcpv6 client | 14:51 |
| aveiga | for pd to work | 14:51 |
| sc68cal | aveiga: That's fine, that could be an async operation | 14:52 |
| aveiga | I think that's a chat for after we've got more basic support in and workign | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | just create a new subnet and specify PD | 14:52 |
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| sc68cal | we'd need to relax the cidr requirement, but that's OK | 14:53 |
| sc68cal | if we made it an API extension, we'd actually not need to muck with that | 14:53 |
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| sc68cal | just do a request to the API extension, and it'd go create a new subnet with the PD | 14:53 |
| aveiga | I'd go the other way, because the router would have to request the prefix | 14:53 |
| aveiga | so it would just create the subnet on the fly | 14:53 |
| aveiga | but again, that's a discussion for later | 14:54 |
| sc68cal | right - obviously some RPC work to make it all communicate correctly | 14:54 |
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| aveiga | in any case, not yet relevant | 14:54 |
| shshang | I have a quick question about code submission | 14:55 |
| shshang | can anybody help me how to write testing code? | 14:55 |
| shshang | I saw test.py in other code review, but not sure what it is for and how to build it. | 14:55 |
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| xuhanp | since we only have several minutes, I also want to mention that I submitted code for RA security group. Will be great if you can take a look. | 14:57 |
| xuhanp | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72252/ | 14:57 |
| xuhanp | thanks sc68cal for your review | 14:57 |
| sc68cal | No problem, you did a great job | 14:57 |
| xuhanp | shshang, sorry for the interrupt | 14:57 |
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| shshang | np | 14:57 |
| sc68cal | hopefully my code was at least helpful | 14:57 |
| sc68cal | shshang: If you look in the neutron/tests/unit directory there are unit tests for the DHCP server there | 14:58 |
| xuhanp | it was very helpful, sc68cal | 14:58 |
| xuhanp | and aveiga's talk with me was too | 14:58 |
| sc68cal | shshang: Take a look at the console log from jenkins, find the unit tests that failed, and fix them up. Are you familiar with Mock? | 14:58 |
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| aveiga | glad to help | 14:58 |
| shshang | no, not at all | 14:58 |
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| shshang | let me take a look at the tests/unit directory and I will send my questions to you, sc68cal? | 14:59 |
| sc68cal | yeah let's talk via e-mail and set up a pair programming time | 14:59 |
| shshang | sure, that will do. Thanks, sc68cal! | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | if anyone else wants to join in, let me know - trying to do some dev doc for Neutron | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | neutron is kind of a beast to learn | 15:00 |
| dane_ | I might be able to help... this is for adding unit test cases? | 15:00 |
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| shshang | yes | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | Alright - well until next time! Thanks everyone | 15:01 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| aveiga | thanks! | 15:01 |
| dane_ | Send me an e-mail | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 15:01:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.log.html | 15:01 |
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| shshang | @dane_, what is your email address? | 15:01 |
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| dane_ | leblancd@cisco.com | 15:01 |
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| shshang | @dane_, I am ex-Cisco too! :D | 15:01 |
| dane_ | small world! | 15:02 |
| shshang | @dane_, I am RTP based. You? | 15:02 |
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| dane_ | MA | 15:02 |
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| shshang | @dane_, I see. You are part of CTO? | 15:03 |
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| dane_ | Yes... Lew Tucker's group | 15:04 |
| shshang | :D Cool! Nice to meet with you, and thank you for your help! | 15:05 |
| dane_ | Sure, I'll try. :o) | 15:05 |
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| shshang | I am pretty sure you know much more than me, I am still new to this code review thing....Errr.... | 15:06 |
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| boris-42_ | #startmeeting Rally | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 17:01:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:01 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz | 17:01 |
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| dkranz | boris-42_: hi | 17:01 |
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| boris-42_ | hughsaunders jorisroovers rediskin tzabal akscram stannie miarmak meeting | 17:02 |
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| miarmak | hi | 17:02 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov as well meeting time | 17:02 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | Hi | 17:02 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | yes, I'm here ) | 17:03 |
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| * boris-42_ typing todays topics | 17:03 | |
| hughsaunders | hi all | 17:03 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | The document with idea was updated: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYdiFiIXKOR2OHeGq2fCm1956CTQVCY-BEZc-irmcxw/edit?usp=sharing | 17:04 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov order pls=) | 17:04 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov this is weekly meeting about all that happened with Rally and will happen=) | 17:04 |
| boris-42_ | 1. Atomic actions | 17:05 |
| boris-42_ | 2. Scenarion runner refactoring | 17:05 |
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| boris-42_ | 3. Rally & Tempest intgeration | 17:05 |
| boris-42_ | 4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine | 17:05 |
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| boris-42_ | 5. Updates about fixing couple of painful bugs | 17:06 |
| boris-42_ | 6. Updates in rally.conf | 17:06 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: I don't have this wholel hour free so can you tell me when you want to discuss the tempest thing? | 17:06 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz yep I will just ping you=) | 17:06 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: But I have to be away part of the time. How about half-past? | 17:07 |
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| boris-42_ | okay try to make it happen=) | 17:07 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: or just ping me and I'll be back soon | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | ok | 17:07 |
| boris-42_ | 7. VM benchmarks | 17:08 |
| boris-42_ | so let's start | 17:08 |
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| boris-42_ | #topic 1. Atomic actions | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "1. Atomic actions (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:08 | |
| boris-42_ | Just short update that this work was finished | 17:08 |
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| boris-42_ | https://github.com/stackforge/rally/commit/b5d24fb3959e9467c4ef8e2924412b37795c6673 | 17:08 |
| boris-42_ | by this patch ^ | 17:08 |
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| hughsaunders | great patch :) | 17:09 |
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| boris-42_ | So now we are able to measure times of atomic actions, e.g. booting VM/deleting VM/snapshoting it and so on | 17:09 |
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| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep great one=) | 17:09 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 2. Scenarion runner refactoring | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2. Scenarion runner refactoring (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:09 | |
| rediskin | it not quite atomic =) | 17:09 |
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| boris-42_ | rediskin gg | 17:09 |
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| boris-42_ | so we done a lot of work around refactoring our scenario runner | 17:10 |
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| boris-42_ | First of all we improved generic cleanup and creation of users | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | now we are using context so cleanup is proceed always | 17:10 |
| boris-42_ | and as well we removed spaghetti from code | 17:11 |
| boris-42_ | Second thing is that now we are able to make plugins | 17:11 |
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| boris-42_ | to generate different load | 17:11 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | cool | 17:11 |
| rediskin | plugins? | 17:11 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | do we have example? | 17:11 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin https://github.com/stackforge/rally/tree/master/rally/benchmark/runners | 17:11 |
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| rediskin | oh | 17:11 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin yep just add new your_load_generator.py | 17:12 |
| rediskin | yea, it is easy to write own runner | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | There are couple of things that should be also refactored | 17:12 |
| hughsaunders | ahh, but not really a plugin, as it has to be in-tree? | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders nope | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders Olga is working around plugin | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders system | 17:12 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders for engines/serverprovider/benchmarks/loaders | 17:13 |
| rediskin | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72679/ | 17:13 |
| rediskin | ^^ load extra modules | 17:13 |
| boris-42_ | yep that one | 17:13 |
| hughsaunders | could use entrypoints for that? | 17:13 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders actually we are going to use rally.conf | 17:13 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders I don't like steavedoor.. | 17:14 |
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| hughsaunders | ok | 17:14 |
| boris-42_ | but unfortunately Olga chose wrong place | 17:14 |
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| boris-42_ | to put initialization | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | so the idea is that we have some place | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | in code | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | that will just load external modules | 17:15 |
| boris-42_ | and our factories approach will fetch them=) | 17:15 |
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| boris-42_ | so next thing that we are going to refactor is this place | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/engine.py#L134-L154 | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | ^ we should put here validation of benchmarks inputs | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | i mean image_id/flavor_id and so on | 17:16 |
| boris-42_ | And thing that is Mike working now | 17:17 |
| boris-42_ | Support of procreated users | 17:17 |
| boris-42_ | precreated* | 17:17 |
| boris-42_ | Btw should we discuss it?) | 17:17 |
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| rediskin | maybe | 17:18 |
| boris-42_ | #topic Support of benchmarking with procreated users | 17:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Support of benchmarking with procreated users (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:18 | |
| rediskin | how about to create clients-container class | 17:18 |
| rediskin | make this object oriented | 17:19 |
| boris-42_ | but it actually endpoint | 17:19 |
| rediskin | do not use all this dicrionaries and diffrerent clients laying around | 17:19 |
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| boris-42_ | ? | 17:20 |
| rediskin | it endpoint, but client = make_client(endpoint['username'], endpoint['password']... | 17:20 |
| rediskin | everywhere in the code crap like this ^^ | 17:20 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin actually you are speaking about legacy code | 17:20 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin until we add endpoint object | 17:20 |
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| boris-42_ | rediskin so this part is just not refactored | 17:20 |
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| boris-42_ | I will share with my thoughs | 17:21 |
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| boris-42_ | https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/osclients.py#L38-L40 this should accept only object endpoint | 17:21 |
| boris-42_ | and here return it https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/osclients.py#L139 | 17:22 |
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| boris-42_ | this things should be removed https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/runner.py#L33-L36 | 17:22 |
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| boris-42_ | ^ they are legacy code =( | 17:22 |
| boris-42_ | we should pass here https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/runner.py#L39 | 17:23 |
| rediskin | boris-42_: ok. I'm so looking forward for this refactoring =) | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin so we will refactor it step by step | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin it is hard to make all in one step | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin so we are refactoring it step by step | 17:23 |
| boris-42_ | And I think that we made already big success | 17:24 |
| rediskin | objects Endpoints and Client might be done first | 17:24 |
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| boris-42_ | rediskin I think that it could be done separately | 17:24 |
| rediskin | boris-42_: just IMHO | 17:24 |
| rediskin | ok | 17:24 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin ok =) | 17:24 |
| boris-42_ | does anybody have something to say?) | 17:24 |
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| boris-42_ | #4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine | 17:25 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine | 17:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:25 | |
| boris-42_ | lets discuss this before tempest stuff | 17:26 |
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| boris-42_ | hughsaunders rediskin could you share with updates | 17:26 |
| rediskin | I thought it's done, but hughsaunders told it is not | 17:26 |
| boris-42_ | lol | 17:26 |
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| rediskin | still some issues. need more tesing. | 17:26 |
| rediskin | actually it all works for me | 17:27 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders does it works for you?) | 17:27 |
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| boris-42_ | seems like hughsaunders is not here..=0 | 17:28 |
| rediskin | he showd me traceback, but it it not enough. need -d -v options on | 17:28 |
| rediskin | anyway there is not much to do | 17:29 |
| boris-42_ | okay so I hope we will get it soon merged | 17:29 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 3. Rally & Tempest intgeration | 17:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "3. Rally & Tempest intgeration (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:29 | |
| boris-42_ | dkranz around?) | 17:29 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Yes | 17:29 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak could you share with your updates | 17:29 |
| miarmak | yeah | 17:30 |
| miarmak | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70131 | 17:30 |
| hughsaunders | boris-42_: I have not been able to get lxc or multinode to work yet | 17:30 |
| miarmak | patch is ready to review) | 17:30 |
| rediskin | miarmak: all tests done? | 17:30 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak ggg | 17:30 |
| miarmak | rediskin: yes | 17:30 |
| miarmak | =) | 17:30 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak could you share in more words | 17:30 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak what your patch makes | 17:30 |
| hughsaunders | but I'm pretty much of the problem is me failing to configure correctly | 17:30 |
| miarmak | yoday i have finished | 17:30 |
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| miarmak | it adds 2 cli commands: rally-manage tempest install to install the Tempest | 17:31 |
| miarmak | and 'rally verify start' | 17:31 |
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| miarmak | to start verifiing process | 17:31 |
| miarmak | we can use it with specificated deploy-id | 17:32 |
| miarmak | or with default deploy id | 17:32 |
| boris-42_ | miarmak so and it works with default deployed cloud with devstack? | 17:32 |
| miarmak | yes | 17:33 |
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| rediskin | boris-42_: on devstack almost all tests passed =) | 17:33 |
| hughsaunders | brilliant :) | 17:33 |
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| miarmak | but for now it starts smoke tests | 17:33 |
| hughsaunders | haha | 17:33 |
| miarmak | to simplifu first steps) | 17:33 |
| boris-42_ | ahah | 17:33 |
| miarmak | simplify* | 17:33 |
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| boris-42_ | okay | 17:33 |
| miarmak | all tests pass very long) | 17:34 |
| dkranz | miarmak: So devstack is presumably not the real target for rally | 17:34 |
| dkranz | miarmak: I made a comment in the review of how I think this really needs to work | 17:34 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz we agree with you | 17:34 |
| rediskin | I gonna test it on cloud deployed bu fuel | 17:34 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz but step by step | 17:34 |
| rediskin | tomorrow.. | 17:34 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Of course | 17:34 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz we would like to get now base in | 17:34 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: I am not going to -1 :) | 17:35 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz so we will be able to simultaneously work on different steps | 17:35 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz e.g. sets of tests/ storing results/ better config generation | 17:35 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: I just thought it would be helpful to understand what is important and missing | 17:35 |
| miarmak | dkranz: yeah, thanks) | 17:35 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz so let me try to describe what we are going to do and why=) | 17:35 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Because devstack is doing stuff that really needs to be in the configure tempest part for real cloud | 17:35 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz we would like to use Rally against different cloud | 17:36 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz with fake virtualization, or real big deployments, or private clouds | 17:36 |
| dkranz | Sure | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz clouds that are deployed for developers with Rally | 17:36 |
| dkranz | I get that | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz so we need mechanism that will understand | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz what we have in cloud | 17:36 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz and what tests we can actually run | 17:37 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz so after we merge this patch one of direction will be this | 17:37 |
| dkranz | Great | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz when we finish this work | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz we will move this stuff to tempest | 17:37 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Please let me know if you disagree with anything in my comment | 17:37 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz I mean smart generation of tempest conf | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz even more if you could help us with this work, it will be nice | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz because we don't have enough developers to cover all things… It takes a lot of time to make things simple=) | 17:38 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Yes, but what I was saying is that in order to do smart generation of tempest.conf you also have to create stuff that is expected, and is created by devstack | 17:38 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz as a first step pre_creation of things could be done by hand | 17:39 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: I know and hope we can help. But it will be easier if the initial version submitted to tempest has the form of what I described | 17:39 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz and passed as extra data | 17:39 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: It does not have to be complete. | 17:39 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz so what's my idea is to split this work | 17:40 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Once an initial version is submitted to tempest I am sure other people will contribute | 17:40 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz so you would like to start work inside tempest? | 17:41 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz I am woried a bit the speed of accepting pathces in tempest is less then in Rally… cause it is not top priority | 17:41 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: It might be some one else | 17:41 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: I can promise this will get high attention | 17:42 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: But I do understand your concern | 17:42 |
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| dkranz | boris-42_: I know there is a lot of interest and this will be reviewed quickly in tempest | 17:42 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz I mean, the biggest problem is that we don't actually now exactly what we would like to get at the end | 17:42 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz and it will be faster to make a lot of POC | 17:42 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz and finial result put to tempest=) | 17:43 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: In my comment I tried to describe what this would look like at the end | 17:43 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: So it would be fine to push a POC to tempest | 17:43 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz okay let's try | 17:44 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: But please take note of my comment as a guideline | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz I understand that part | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz But it is too high level | 17:44 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: And remember that there is already a poc in tempest which you will be replacing so make that clear | 17:44 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz I mean pre_init of cloud is a bit dangerous thing for Rally | 17:45 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz because there cases when you don't have admin access | 17:45 |
| boris-42_ | there are* | 17:45 |
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| boris-42_ | so it should be independet | 17:45 |
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| boris-42_ | e.g. there are part the could prepare cloud for tempest | 17:46 |
| boris-42_ | and returns some JSON | 17:46 |
| boris-42_ | and there is a part that should accept this json and make config | 17:46 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: I agree they are separate steps but users need to cause the right things to be there | 17:46 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: WHether they do it themselves or tell some admin | 17:46 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: They should be able to point the admin at a script that does the right thing | 17:46 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: There could easily be two separate scripts | 17:47 |
| boris-42_ | dkranz I hope that we will use python =) | 17:47 |
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| dkranz | boris-42_: But they are linked in that the "create tempest.conf" is depending on the other one that is creating stuff in the cloud | 17:47 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: Why would we not use python? | 17:47 |
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| dkranz | boris-42_: The POC script in tempest does | 17:48 |
| boris-42_ | ok nice | 17:48 |
| boris-42_ | could you just give a link?) | 17:48 |
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| dkranz | boris-42_: tempest/tools/tempest_auto_config.py | 17:48 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: It got totally broken when the sample conf format changed | 17:48 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz and I let's continue this discussion in mailing list | 17:48 |
| dkranz | boris-42_: That's what I was thinking | 17:49 |
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| boris-42_ | dkranz ok I will write some stuff =) | 17:49 |
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| boris-42_ | #topic 5. Updates about fixing couple of painful bugs | 17:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "5. Updates about fixing couple of painful bugs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:49 | |
| boris-42_ | gust short | 17:49 |
| boris-42_ | There was a bug that freezes Rally if OpenStack doesn't response | 17:50 |
| boris-42_ | so sometimes it was really impossible to benchmark with Rally | 17:50 |
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| boris-42_ | We fixed it using timeouts in os-python-clients | 17:50 |
| boris-42_ | And as well I fixed bug around issue gate-26-python that works forever | 17:50 |
| boris-42_ | by refactoring mocks | 17:51 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 6. Updates in rally.conf | 17:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "6. Updates in rally.conf (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:51 | |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders could you share pls with updates?) | 17:51 |
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| hughsaunders | I removed lots of magic numbers from scenario utils, and replaced them with config options | 17:51 |
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| hughsaunders | probably more options than will ever be used, but at least they can be tweaked for different situations - eg short delays for LXC | 17:52 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders that makes totally sense ^ | 17:52 |
| boris-42_ | ok next topic | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | #topic 7. VM benchmarks | 17:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "7. VM benchmarks (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:53 | |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ around? | 17:53 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ your turn | 17:53 |
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| boris-42_ | Okay I will just say | 17:54 |
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| boris-42_ | that there is work around adding benchmarks that will measure CPU/MEM/IO of VMs | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | I think that they will be based on Hugh approach | 17:55 |
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| boris-42_ | but we should just think bit about output | 17:55 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | yes | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | of these scenarios | 17:55 |
| boris-42_ | to make it clean in Rally arch | 17:56 |
| hughsaunders | yeah, at the moment the script is required to ouput json | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders yep but we should improve it a bit | 17:56 |
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| hughsaunders | but we could have some output processor in rally that normalises the json from each script | 17:56 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders but not output data=) | 17:56 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | and also need to support scenarios when we have several VMs with workload simulation | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | hughsaunders so we should think how to process CPU/MEM/IO usage in some common way | 17:57 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | and run benchmmarks on other VMs | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ eg. IPerf?) | 17:57 |
| rediskin | it should be interface like deploy engines/providers | 17:57 |
| boris-42_ | rediskin we will use for such thing heat | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | rediskin to deploy VMs with HPCC | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | rediskin tnurlygayanov_ I will think about unifying and making some kind of plugable result processing | 17:58 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | hm, not only iperf. We want to test performance of cloud under the wrokload | 17:58 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ it will be really hard to implemnt | 17:59 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | *workload | 17:59 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ I was already thinking about it | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ I have a couple of ideas | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ but it won't be simple | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ btw are you familiar with Heat?) | 17:59 |
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| tnurlygayanov_ | yes | 17:59 |
| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ okay then let's make full things | 17:59 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | it was the my first idea | 17:59 |
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| boris-42_ | tnurlygayanov_ yep but it will be a bit trickily to integrate it | 18:00 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | but I think Rully can do it too | 18:00 |
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| hughsaunders | boris-42_: should probably wrap whole script execution, not just result processing, like in-instance-scenario | 18:00 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | if we will not delte VMs after the script running | 18:00 |
| boris-42_ | let's go to rally chat | 18:00 |
| stevemar | howdy marekd | 18:00 |
| boris-42_ | time is out | 18:00 |
| tnurlygayanov_ | ok | 18:00 |
| marekd | stevemar: hey! | 18:00 |
| boris-42_ | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 18:00:38 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-11-17.01.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-11-17.01.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-11-17.01.log.html | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hey | 18:00 |
| stevemar | lbragstad o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | marekd: ++ on the _ControllerBase stuff | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | stevemar: yo! | 18:01 |
| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: o/ | 18:01 |
| topol | o/ | 18:01 |
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| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| dstanek | hi | 18:01 |
| dolphm | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| marekd | dolphm: salut! | 18:01 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:01 |
| marekd | lbragstad: credits go to bknudson! | 18:01 |
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| shardy | o/ | 18:01 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: marekd thx! | 18:01 |
| stevemar | marekd, don't be so humble | 18:01 |
| stevemar | marekd, you had a lot of good stuff | 18:02 |
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| ayoung | YO | 18:02 |
| marekd | stevemar: thanks! | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 18:02:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | o/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | #topic Reminder: Icehouse feature proposal freeze February 18th (features must be in code review) | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | (under the wire!) | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature proposal freeze February 18th (features must be in code review) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| devlaps | o/ | 18:02 |
| tellesnobrega | o/ | 18:02 |
| dolphm | we're in *really* good shape for feature freeze, GREAT JOB EVERYONE! :D | 18:02 |
| ayoung | dolphm, you probably should add morganfainberg_Z to your notify line to wake him up | 18:02 |
| marekd | ayoung: what time does he have now? | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i see pings for all variations on my names | 18:03 |
| dolphm | mrgnfeignbern: good to know | 18:03 |
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| marekd | lol | 18:03 |
| ayoung | nice | 18:03 |
| * morganfainberg adds that now as well | 18:03 | |
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| stevemar | dolphm, Yay! | 18:03 |
| dolphm | so we're a week out from feature proposal freeze, with three bp's not "in review" yet -- and i'm not at all worried about any of them at the moment | 18:04 |
| dolphm | so let's move on! | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, I snuck in one last item on the agenda. | 18:04 |
| stevemar | go team | 18:04 |
| dolphm | #topic Spread Domains for other OS services (Nova) | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spread Domains for other OS services (Nova) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
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| dolphm | tellesnobrega: i assume this is your topic? | 18:04 |
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| gyee | \o | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | how is nova going to use domains? | 18:04 |
| tellesnobrega | dolphm: yeap | 18:04 |
| dolphm | and this also directly conflicts with hierarchical multitenancy, so i'm interested in what you're thinking | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | I believe the auth_token middleware sets the domain info in the env | 18:05 |
| dolphm | if a domain-scoped token is used | 18:05 |
| tiamar | bknudson: it is not in the nova context | 18:05 |
| ayoung | HTTP_X_DOMAIN_ID | 18:05 |
| henrynash | bknudson: it dies | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | tiamar: it's in the environment, though | 18:06 |
| henrynash | it does, i mean! | 18:06 |
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| tellesnobrega | nova is just one of the ideas, i was also thinking about glance | 18:06 |
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| dolphm | tellesnobrega: what's the use case? | 18:06 |
| tellesnobrega | for example if we want to have an image that belongs to coca-cola and an image that belongs to pepsi, we dont want them put together | 18:06 |
| tellesnobrega | nova is more related to quotas | 18:07 |
| ayoung | tellesnobrega, hierarchical multitenacy | 18:07 |
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| dolphm | tellesnobrega: so, that doesn't require domain-scoped authorization | 18:07 |
| ayoung | do something at one level of the tree, and only have it vbisible to subnodes | 18:07 |
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| tellesnobrega | i see | 18:07 |
| bknudson | I'm guessing you can't do anything with a domain-scoped token outside of keystone | 18:07 |
| henrynash | ayoung: really? you mean by having a single top level project in each domain that contains the images? | 18:07 |
| tiamar | some other actions may require domain-scoped auth | 18:08 |
| ayoung | henrynash, domain *is* the top level project | 18:08 |
| tiamar | bknudson, correct | 18:08 |
| dolphm | tellesnobrega: but rather user- or project-domain based quota enforcement, which are passed to nova as x-user-domain-id and x-project-domain-id | 18:08 |
| ayoung | lets accept two things, one, domains are unnecessary | 18:08 |
| ayoung | two we are not going to b e able to get rid of domains | 18:08 |
| dolphm | tiamar: like what? | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | the domain (top-level) would contain the most public images | 18:08 |
| bknudson | ayoung: how do you have namespaces for users without domains? | 18:08 |
| ayoung | ok...its a language thing, not a "best design" thing | 18:08 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ah...let me rephrase | 18:09 |
| dolphm | tiamar: "may": sure. do we have a specific use case to discuss? | 18:09 |
| mrgnfeignbern | ayoung, ++ | 18:09 |
| ayoung | for assignments, domains are unnecessary, but we won't be able to remove them becvause they are embeddd in the collective brain of our users | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: that steps into hierarchical multitenancy; it's not a use case for our existing definition of "domains" which do NOT own openstack resources | 18:09 |
| tiamar | dolphm: mainly to big deployments of Openstack, where a top level administrator may set things i.e images, quotas to a entire domain and projects a domain owns | 18:10 |
| mrgnfeignbern | ayoung, this is related to our conversation yesterday... | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | makes sense | 18:10 |
| henrynash | ayoung: we need *some* administrative construct that allowes the creation of levels of administration scope | 18:10 |
| bknudson | do domains own projects? | 18:10 |
| henrynash | bknudosn: today, ues | 18:10 |
| ayoung | mrgnfeignbern, so I would say that root, domain, and nested projects are the terms we use. implementation wise, they can all be the same thing | 18:10 |
| henrynash | today, yes | 18:10 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: hierarchical multitenancy :) | 18:10 |
| mrgnfeignbern | ayoung, aye, | 18:11 |
| ayoung | root namespaces domains | 18:11 |
| tiamar | +1 | 18:11 |
| ayoung | domains namespace projects | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | projects namespace subordinate projects | 18:11 |
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| ayoung | we use different terms for Hysterical Raisins | 18:11 |
| tellesnobrega | +1 | 18:11 |
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| gyee | ayoung, you saying domains contains projects and project contains subprojects? just make sure I understand | 18:12 |
| dolphm | tiamar: so the use case is distributed domain-wide quota enforcement; what do you need from the keystone community? | 18:12 |
| dolphm | tellesnobrega: ^ | 18:12 |
| ayoung | gyee, that is my view, yes | 18:12 |
| henrynash | dolphm: and that's fine…..as long as we have the support for how we define users such that hierarchical multitenacy can be used to infer scope of administration | 18:12 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: if by "infer" you mean "explicitly define" -- then yes! that's the goal | 18:13 |
| tiamar | dolphm: not only that, but a domain administrator that could do anythign with a single token in Nova for example | 18:13 |
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| gyee | ayoung, I don't have a firm opinion right now, but I hear ya | 18:13 |
| henrynash | dolphm: that'll do too ! | 18:13 |
| tellesnobrega | tiamar: +1 | 18:13 |
| ayoung | now...a domain is also a concept in identity, so the domain object will have one more, optional field, which is "what IdP do domain users live in" | 18:13 |
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| dolphm | tiamar: that conflicts with our existing concept of multitenancy; you need hierarchical multitenancy for that, and it's an *entirely* separate discussion | 18:14 |
| ayoung | you have to squint a little to see it, but, feh | 18:14 |
| dolphm | tiamar: probably best saved for the friday meeting, as it evolves | 18:14 |
| tiamar | dolphm: ok. but domain isolation is also necessary for multitenancy in Nova, glance... | 18:15 |
| ayoung | tiamar, it will be there | 18:15 |
| dolphm | tiamar: explain? | 18:15 |
| tiamar | ayoung: how? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | tiamar, a domain is a top level project with no named parent. It will come right off of "root" a majic project-type-thingy | 18:15 |
| dolphm | tiamar: nova and glance have no need to care about domains to provide any aspect of multitenancy whatsoever | 18:15 |
| tiamar | ayoung: with the nested projects? | 18:15 |
| ayoung | tiamar, replace the term domain with project, and say that projects are hierarchical | 18:16 |
| ayoung | and that a resource in a parent node is visible to all children | 18:16 |
| tellesnobrega | dolphm: if we want to have an image that belongs to a specific domain? | 18:16 |
| dolphm | tellesnobrega: that currently makes no sense, as domains do not own resources | 18:16 |
| ayoung | tellesnobrega, then it is owned by that domain and visible to all subprojects in that domain | 18:16 |
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| tiamar | ayoung: yes, but doesn't this replacement requires a lot of code rewrite in keystone? does it affect about policy.v3cloudsample.json? I love this file | 18:17 |
| dolphm | tellesnobrega: again, you're providing use cases for hierarchical multitenancy, so i'd suggest bringing up the use case in that meeting / pursuing hierarchical multitenancy first | 18:17 |
| ayoung | and if it is owned by dom1->p1->p2 it is visible to dom1->p1->p2->p3 | 18:17 |
| ayoung | tiamar, it requires code, yes | 18:17 |
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| ayoung | that is why we are discussing it. I think we should table until Friday and move on. | 18:17 |
| tellesnobrega | dolphm: sure | 18:18 |
| tiamar | ayoung: ok | 18:18 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i think so too | 18:18 |
| dolphm | #topic Fixing multi-domain LDAP support | 18:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fixing multi-domain LDAP support (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:18 | |
| dolphm | henrynash: o/ | 18:18 |
| dolphm | henrynash: i can provide some background here if you'd like | 18:18 |
| ayoung | see the above line about the domain table | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: (although i don't have any links in front of me) | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ok so the plan for this had been to fix the assignment tables, and then layer a fix for the multi-domain LDAP on top of it (as discussed in San Antonio) | 18:19 |
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| ayoung | we need to be able to safely generate userids based on LDAP source. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | Same problem as Fedration has | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | yesh. | 18:19 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, put away the booze | 18:19 |
| dolphm | henrynash: ah, i missed that discussion | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, but :( | 18:20 |
| henrynash | most of the code for multi-domain LDAP is OK…the bit that isn't is where we try and infer the domain_id (to ayoung's point) | 18:20 |
| ayoung | henrynash, I don't know if we need to infer it, so long as the generation is safe | 18:20 |
| ayoung | but we do need to have larger fields to incorperate | 18:20 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: Oh, I agree…but the CURRENT code tries to infer it, which is the bit that is broken | 18:21 |
| ayoung | sure | 18:21 |
| bknudson | where is the explicit domain id if we don't infer it? | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | henrynash, so...I think the hack goes, for now, in the LDAP driver id_to_dn | 18:21 |
| ayoung | and the reverse | 18:21 |
| henrynash | ayoung: agreed | 18:21 |
| ayoung | we need to support the existing approach | 18:21 |
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| ayoung | si if CONF.multi_domain_backends.... | 18:22 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: so basically, I'l like to driver this to closure now the assignment tables are ready for review…in conjunction with ayoung | 18:22 |
| dolphm | henrynash: is it realistic to ship icehouse with this fixed? | 18:22 |
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| henrynash | dolpm: I think so…young" | 18:23 |
| ayoung | henrynash, so I had a SQL question | 18:23 |
| dolphm | i'd rather not ship another release with documentation for a broken feature | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | is there something magic about 64 chars long keys? | 18:23 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: ++ | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: no | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, no | 18:23 |
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| ayoung | if we up the key length to...I guess 130 chars, do we have the same support? | 18:23 |
| ayoung | Is there some number we need to stay under? | 18:23 |
| dolphm | ayoung: up to 255 | 18:23 |
| ayoung | 512? | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | or varchar255 | 18:24 |
| ayoung | OK. | 18:24 |
| bknudson | len(uuid.uuid4().hex) == 32 | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, > 255 has implications in mysql | 18:24 |
| henrynash | ayoung: so we either do that or we store it in two fields in the new assignment table and we return a composite key from the driver…. | 18:24 |
| dolphm | bknudson: yeah, i don't know why they were ever 64 to begin with | 18:24 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, and pg and DB2 are OK with <255 as well? | 18:24 |
| dolphm | bknudson: essex-ism | 18:24 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, pg will be | 18:24 |
| dolphm | ayoung: yep | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, db2?^ | 18:24 |
| dolphm | oh, don't know about db2 | 18:24 |
| bknudson | I don't think db2 is going to have a problem with a longer key | 18:25 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: it will truncate on varchar255, won't it? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: how convenient! | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, thats the implication w/ mysql, | 18:25 |
| bknudson | it's the total length of all the fields in the column that might have an effect on the pagesize. | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, i think pg is less... picky | 18:25 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: doesn't pg barf? | 18:25 |
| ayoung | OK, so lets expand the key size to the max safe length, explain why we are doing it, and have a comment in there saying "we can't go any larger" | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, doesn't matter, 255 is what we're setting it at ;) | 18:25 |
| dolphm | sure | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, oh if value > 255, yeah | 18:26 |
| ayoung | then, for user and groups IDs from LDAP, it is ldap-attribute@@domain_id | 18:26 |
| topol | two @@ or one? | 18:26 |
| dolphm | henrynash: if we don't have a "fix" for multi-ldap by feature freeze, i'd at least like to ship icehouse with the relevant docs commented out or removed | 18:26 |
| ayoung | two | 18:26 |
| ayoung | topol, to avoid tripping on people using an email address | 18:26 |
| ayoung | topol, so | 18:26 |
| ayoung | ayoung@redhat.com@@abcd1234 is OK | 18:27 |
| henrynash | dolphm: You'll have a fix in code review by the 18th | 18:27 |
| dolphm | henrynash: the "guess my domain" code needs a giant docstr explaining how broken it is as well, and not to use it as-is | 18:27 |
| dolphm | henrynash: alright | 18:27 |
| dolphm | henrynash: is there a bug or something we can track against i3? | 18:27 |
| bknudson | the fix is not going to be guessing domains, I hope? | 18:27 |
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| henrynash | dolphm: yes, there is…let me find it | 18:27 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, no no guessing | 18:27 |
| ayoung | its also essential that the code that we don't break existing LDAP deployments, or timbell will be sad | 18:28 |
| ayoung | We don't need to "guess domains" | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | we just need to be safe in generating the userids | 18:28 |
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| ayoung | Oh...wait, for the list users stuff...we need a field in the domain table | 18:29 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: i'm just talking about the code that's currently in master | 18:29 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah...so looking up a user by userid...can we just say that for multi domains, user domain id needs to be specified in the token request etc? | 18:30 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that's an API change, but you can propose it | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i don't think that is unreasonable. but yeah.. api change (but it's not incompatible) | 18:30 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: actually, it's an additional required attribute, so it is backwards-incompatible | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | get/users/ayoug@@edhat.com@@abcd1234 ? | 18:31 |
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| bknudson | oops GET /v3/users/ayoug@@edhat.com@@abcd1234 ? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, no it's only incompatible if you enable multi-domains | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, oh oh wait.. | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, this would include the sql backends? | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | yeaaah nvm i'm wrong | 18:32 |
| henrynash | dolphm: I can't find the explicit defect (I thought there was one), there's this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1226171 | 18:32 |
| bknudson | GET /v3/users/ayoug@redhat.com@@abcd1234 | 18:32 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1226171 in keystone "When using per-domain-identity backend, user_ids could collide" [Medium,Triaged] | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | seems like we'd break everybody if we changed the user ID format. | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | ok...so is userid parsing acceptable? | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | either way (explicit domain id or userid parsing) we need to map from domain id to LDAP backend | 18:33 |
| ayoung | which means we need a way to enumerate the backends | 18:33 |
| dolphm | henrynash: that works for now | 18:33 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: as long as keystone owns ID's, it's acceptable IMO | 18:34 |
| ayoung | bknudson, we just say that userid is a blob, but the LDAP folks have dealt with the assumption of UUID for user id already | 18:34 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, ++ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | OK, so how do we go from domain table to the LDAP config? | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, if we change the id format we can also do "if it's not the 'new-format' handle it in a specific backwards-compatible way" | 18:34 |
| ayoung | or, more correctly, can we make it so that this works for Federation as well | 18:34 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: the multi-domain config files are "indexed" by domain name (or ID, one or the other) | 18:35 |
| dstanek | just a quick note about the above user ids - we need to make sure @ is url safe or bknudson is right we could break things | 18:35 |
| dolphm | in the face of hierarchical multitenancy, i should put my patch back up for configurable UUID lengths (so we don't hit that 255 limit immediately) | 18:35 |
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| ayoung | I'd like to treat the SQL backend, any LDAP backens, and the Federated "backends" as different forms of the same thing. | 18:35 |
| henrynash | ayoung: ++ | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | henrynash: that should be replaced with one or the other | 18:36 |
| dolphm | henrynash: the indexing by name or id | 18:36 |
| ayoung | is the @ sign going to make things break>? | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ? configurable uuid lengths? | 18:36 |
| dolphm | henrynash: just pick one; i think names are terrible but that's just me | 18:36 |
| henrynash | dolphm: it is one ptr the other, I just can't remember which! | 18:36 |
| ayoung | I know people are using email addresses for userids already | 18:36 |
| ayoung | I can't see that @@ is any worse. | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, files are indexed by name afaik for the external configs | 18:36 |
| henrynash | dolphm: I think it is name so that it is human readable | 18:37 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i replaced all the uuid.uuid4().hex calls with something in keystone.common that did uuid.uuid4().hex[:CONF.uuid_length] | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | henrynash, it uses domain-name.conf and reads it in | 18:37 |
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| dstanek | ayoung: i would guess yes since the @ is usually before the domain portion of a url, but if we aleady have some... | 18:37 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i got shot down due to increased risk of collision, but it sounds like a more interesting tradeoff now | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, hm.... | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, because we have uuid@@uuid possibly? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | but aren't our uuids 64 in len as is? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i'm confused on the benefit of trimming them down | 18:38 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: uuid@@openstack.domain_uuid.project_uuid.subproject_uuid | 18:39 |
| dolphm | risk of ^ | 18:39 |
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| ayoung | NO! | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, we should move to another column type | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, if we did that | 18:39 |
| dolphm | lol | 18:39 |
| ayoung | project Ids are not domain scoped. They are assigned by Keystone | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, not truncated uuids | 18:39 |
| ayoung | unless they want to pull them in from LDAP (in the future) | 18:39 |
| ayoung | in which case it would be, at most LDAPattribute@uuid | 18:40 |
| ayoung | but not more nesting than that | 18:40 |
| dolphm | ayoung: i'm referring to hierarchical multitenancy (which now needs an acronym badly because i don't want to type that anymore), where they might be exposed like that | 18:40 |
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| morganfainberg | HMT | 18:40 |
| stevemar | HMT | 18:40 |
| dolphm | yay | 18:40 |
| topol | HMT4U | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | topol ++ | 18:40 |
| henrynash | PMT? | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ;) | 18:41 |
| lbragstad | topol: ++ | 18:41 |
| * dolphm just tried to type that and muscle-memoried HTML | 18:41 | |
| ayoung | Aitch Emm Tee | 18:41 |
| ayoung | Heh | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | Heavy MeTal? | 18:41 |
| stevemar | dolphm, you'll manage | 18:41 |
| henrynash | ayoung: very good | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | ok, so if that is legitimately a concern, we should look at alternate column types | 18:41 |
| bknudson | should be hierarchical multiprojectcy since we changed the term. | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | but, they'll need other work for indexing properly then (PK isn't viable on some of them) | 18:42 |
| dolphm | in juno+1 we can rename HMT to HMP (hierarhical multiprojectsy) | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ++ | 18:42 |
| dolphm | anyway... what else is on the agenda... | 18:42 |
| ayoung | keys need to stay short, as they are used in indexes, you don't want them going into the big text blob that most RDBMSes do for freeform text | 18:42 |
| dolphm | #topic Specifying format for compressed tokens | 18:42 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specifying format for compressed tokens (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:42 | |
| dolphm | ayoung: o/ | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | OK...so this is pretty cool | 18:42 |
| dolphm | ayoung: is this referring to the static prefix? | 18:42 |
| ayoung | I've been learning a little bit more about CMS | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, at the end have a quick review / bp to bring up as possible i3 target | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | (code is already up) | 18:43 |
| ayoung | I need a way to specify that a token is in comporessed format | 18:43 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: (?) | 18:43 |
| ayoung | the current brokenness is look for MII at the start of the token | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, let ayoung do his topic and i'll then jump in with the quick bit after | 18:43 |
| bknudson | where does MII come from? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | that is length specific, so with compression, it will not be MII | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | I was going with {cmsz} as a prefix | 18:44 |
| ayoung | but...that i s kindof made up | 18:44 |
| bknudson | an explicit prefix makes more sense | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 18:44 |
| ayoung | it would be nice if it were something that said "here is how you deal with the data" | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | i like explicit - known prefixes | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: it's a quirk of encoding the start of a CMS token into base64 | 18:44 |
| ayoung | and the order of ops most people need to do is: | 18:44 |
| gyee | bknudson, that is base64 encoded asn.1 thing | 18:44 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you know the zlib output contains gzip headers, correct? | 18:44 |
| dolphm | so, it's already clear that it's compressed | 18:44 |
| ayoung | base64 decode, uncompress, verify sign, parse JSON | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | dolphm, but not everything has headers like that. | 18:45 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yeah...and that is also an option: just say that it is BASE64 and then deduce at each step | 18:45 |
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| ayoung | the formats we need to deal with are | 18:45 |
| dolphm | or something gzip compatible; i'm not clear on what zlib does different from plain "gzip" | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, might make sense ot just say "this is what it is" | 18:45 |
| ayoung | base64, gzip, der, JSON | 18:45 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i'm not opposed to something human-readable, i'm just pointing out that it's not entirely machine-useful | 18:46 |
| dolphm | rather, it's redundant | 18:46 |
| ayoung | now, there are not an clear content types in HTML land for this, mainly because crypto, comoppression, etc are done as separate HTML headers | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | I was thinking | 18:46 |
| dolphm | ayoung: it's also in a header by itself, and should be opaque to clients | 18:46 |
| dolphm | ayoung: you shouldn't expect clients to work with headers for this | 18:47 |
| dolphm | (other) headers | 18:47 |
| ayoung | application/JSON+CMS+GZIP+BASE64 | 18:47 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, right | 18:47 |
| gyee | ayoung, I though CMS offer compression as well, lemme check the spec | 18:47 |
| ayoung | so I was strwamanning using ^^ as the prefix | 18:47 |
| ayoung | gyee, I am pretty sure it does | 18:47 |
| dolphm | ayoung: why not use that? | 18:47 |
| jamielennox | gyee: i've never seen that | 18:47 |
| gyee | https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3274 | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dolphm, well we still need a way to detect the token type | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: that's also giant, and starts to bulk the token back up! | 18:48 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, beat me to it | 18:48 |
| gyee | not sure if its been superseded though | 18:48 |
| dolphm | ayoung: if CMS handles compression already, then it wouldn't be our problem | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yep...I am aware, | 18:48 |
| jamielennox | gyee: awesome | 18:48 |
| ayoung | dolphm, CMS format might, not sure if the tools expose it | 18:48 |
| ayoung | Let me see... | 18:49 |
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| dolphm | so, does openssl support that spec? | 18:49 |
| gyee | dolphm, should, but need to double check | 18:49 |
| dolphm | that spec makes a good argument for compressing before signing | 18:49 |
| ayoung | the lib does | 18:49 |
| ayoung | http://www.openssl.org/docs/crypto/CMS_compress.html | 18:49 |
| ayoung | not sure if the CLI does | 18:49 |
| ayoung | I don't see a switch for it | 18:49 |
| ayoung | -compress | 18:50 |
| ayoung | okits not inthe man page, but on the site. let me play around with that | 18:50 |
| ayoung | http://www.openssl.org/docs/apps/cms.html | 18:50 |
| ayoung | so...what to do about detecting token format, then? | 18:50 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: can you hit -dev with a clear breakdown of the options? | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, might be a new(er) release than the cli | 18:51 |
| bknudson | then you'll need --uncompress on the other side? | 18:51 |
| dolphm | ayoung: we have several viable paths at this point, it seems :) | 18:51 |
| ayoung | bknudson, I think that might be done by default | 18:51 |
| gyee | ayoung, we should use a header to indicate the token format | 18:51 |
| gyee | I think that's the proper way to do this | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: nothing? it means we keep a CMS packet and we can just detect whether its compressed or not | 18:51 |
| dolphm | plus it'd be fun to advertise support for this to a broader audience | 18:51 |
| ayoung | dolphm, yep...and there is one other nastiness I was hoping to clean up, which is base64 should be url_safe...I think I might be able to get that, too | 18:52 |
| dolphm | gyee: i don't think so | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | gyee: i don't think we should add more headers | 18:52 |
| gyee | dolphm, why not? | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, we should move everything to headers. | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, EVERYTHING | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, ;) | 18:52 |
| dolphm | gyee: because the token should be opaque | 18:52 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, I think I can check the length, and, if it is greater then len of a uuid, perform a base64decode on it | 18:52 |
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| gyee | CMS tokens are not opaque, they contain stuff | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: if it's a CMS token though we should be able to still check for MII | 18:52 |
| ayoung | OK..I have some work to do...I think I can drop all of the PEM stuff | 18:53 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, nope | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | MII won't work if it is compressed | 18:53 |
| gyee | they are essentially signed documents | 18:53 |
| ayoung | it MII is length of the token dependent | 18:53 |
| * dolphm going to cut the meeting 5 minutes short as i have to run soon | 18:53 | |
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| ayoung | I think I'm good | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | ayoung: it won't work if we gzipped a token - if we have compresseddata in cms it probably will | 18:53 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox, ++ that is what I meant | 18:53 |
| dolphm | jamielennox: if openssl supports compressed CMS, then ++ | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | gyee: clients don't know that yet | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | s/yet/though | 18:53 |
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| dguitarbite | . | 18:54 |
| * ayoung going to test | 18:54 | |
| gyee | jamelennox, they will right? :) | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | gyee: no | 18:54 |
| bknudson | ayoung: thanks for looking into this. I think it will make a lot of users happy to have smaller tokens. | 18:54 |
| dolphm | gyee: they're not opaque to keystone tools, they're opaque to clients and need to remain so | 18:54 |
| jamielennox | gyee: for no reason i can think of | 18:54 |
| ayoung | it should be transparent. When the check the signature, library should see it is compressed | 18:54 |
| dolphm | try: zlib.decompress(token) except: pass | 18:54 |
| ayoung | I might abandon the old review, if the code is radically simpler | 18:54 |
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| dolphm | cool | 18:55 |
| dolphm | cutting it short... thanks everyone! | 18:55 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 18:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:55 | |
| gyee | isn't middleware a client, anyway | 18:55 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 18:55:38 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-11-18.02.html | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, doh | 18:55 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-11-18.02.txt | 18:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-11-18.02.log.html | 18:55 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: ay carumba | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, -dev | 18:56 |
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| * fungi watches as tumbleweeds roll through the meeting channel | 18:59 | |
| *** jgrimm has quit IRC | 19:00 | |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
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| zaro | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | hi infra folks | 19:00 |
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| fungi | howdy | 19:00 |
| mattoliverau | Moring all | 19:00 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:00 |
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| jeblair | mordred: ping | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: in case you are around... | 19:01 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 19:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair, btw, I'm always here in this time :) | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-04-19.02.html | 19:02 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: i know, i just didn't want to be pushy. :) | 19:02 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | jeblair :) | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | wow there are a lot | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #action mordred continue looking into bug 1242569 | 19:04 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "manage-projects error on new project creation" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/1242569 | 19:04 |
| jeblair | clarkb: zmq plugin upgrade? | 19:04 |
| clarkb | the patch for zmq plugin has been tested and merged, I need to tag a release and apply it to servers | 19:04 |
| clarkb | but I think that owkr is less important now than having reliable logstash | 19:05 |
| jeblair | clarkb: what's that in service of? | 19:05 |
| jeblair | clarkb: ++logstash | 19:05 |
| clarkb | jeblair: adding master data to logstash records | 19:05 |
| jeblair | ah | 19:05 |
| clarkb | which isn't helpful if logstash is fallen over | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i haven't looked at graphite recently; did you get a chance to look at it and see if we should move it to ssd? | 19:05 |
| fungi | short answer is i don't think there's any need since the cinder volume addition. see the iowait change on the monthly cpu graph | 19:06 |
| fungi | #link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=440&rra_id=all | 19:06 |
| fungi | and the load average dropped off similarly | 19:06 |
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| fungi | #link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=439&rra_id=all | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | fungi: cool, yeah, that looks much healthier | 19:06 |
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| fungi | the whisper files also aren't going to buy us anything to clean up currently | 19:06 |
| jeblair | anyone know anything about virtualenv 1.10.1 pin? | 19:06 |
| fungi | breakdown looks like 1.9% untouched for 8 months, 21% untouched for 2 months, 28% untouched for a month, 42% untouched for a week, 52% untouched for a day | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes, we need tox to merge my PR before we can unpin it | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: the virtualenv, tox, and pip pins are all intermingled | 19:07 |
| fungi | that's assuming we want to unpin tox and virtualenv/pip at the same time, which is probably wise | 19:07 |
| jeblair | clarkb: roger. i won't echo that action item them | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | then | 19:07 |
| jeblair | anything else from that list we should check in on? | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair get ssl cert for storyboard | 19:08 |
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| fungi | that seems to have covered it | 19:08 |
| jeblair | #topic Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap, SlickNik) | 19:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap, SlickNik) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:08 | |
| jeblair | i think this is in the same state as last week | 19:09 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69501/ | 19:09 |
| jeblair | pending tempest review | 19:09 |
| jeblair | so i'll move on unless there's anything further on this | 19:09 |
| jeblair | #topic Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2, fungi) | 19:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| jeblair | i think it is happening again. | 19:10 |
| fungi | the tripleo-ci cloud is back online thanks to lifeless's ministrations, in nodepool again and zuul is handing it jobs once more | 19:10 |
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| pleia2 | I'm still working on getting fedora building as a slave in nodepool | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | but we've had some good patches go in | 19:10 |
| fungi | also, with a MUCH larger quota now | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: what's fedora in service of? | 19:11 |
| fungi | in theory, so we can also spin up bare/devstack slaves if we want | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: a nodepool slave | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: right, but to what end? | 19:11 |
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| pleia2 | jeblair: ah, we want to test on both ubuntu and fedora for the entire testing stack | 19:11 |
| fungi | as opposed to ubuntu and rhel/centos i guess | 19:12 |
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| jeblair | pleia2: this is a tripleo desire? | 19:12 |
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| pleia2 | jeblair: yes | 19:12 |
| fungi | has anybody tried to nodepool-prep a bare centos 6.4 image? | 19:13 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: but since starting this, I've also bumped into other people interested in running nodepool with fedora, so the work will be valuable beyond just this | 19:13 |
| jeblair | pleia2: so for the gate, we took what the project said it wants to support, combined that with the lifecycles of the respective distros, factored to the least common denominator and ended up with precise and centos | 19:13 |
| fungi | from an infra team perspective, having nodepool able to give us resources to run python 2.56 jobs would be really swell | 19:13 |
| fungi | er, 2.6 | 19:13 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: so, from a 'does python work' perspective thats fine | 19:14 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes, we definitely need a bare centos6, but it shouldn't be too hard since it's an existing puppet thing | 19:14 |
| lifeless | jeblair: but from a deploy perspective, centos is not == fedora | 19:14 |
| clarkb | fungi: no, but I did try to do a d-g centos image back when dprince and ArxCruz wrote changes to support centos | 19:14 |
| clarkb | er maybe it was fedora, ya fedora | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: definitely; but one of the reasons why we don't test on fedora or saucy is due to the support lifecycle | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: this is probably not a concern for tripleo since its support lifecycle is much smaller than openstack's | 19:15 |
| jeblair | as a whole | 19:15 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: also because we're targeting CD, where we expect folk to be tracking latest everything, more or less. | 19:15 |
| jeblair | i think i'm bringing it up to tease out any issues that may be related to this... | 19:16 |
| fungi | i think to some extent our current choices are reflected in the fact that ubuntu uses ltc for uca and rh does rdo on rhel rather than fedora | 19:16 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: but, there are folk wanting stable release branches - like slagle - so they may want stable OS test jobs. | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | so i think as long as these nodes are only being used on master, there's probably no issue | 19:16 |
| jeblair | fungi: that too | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | pleia2, lifeless: are you just planning on running tripleo-related jobs on these? | 19:17 |
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| pleia2 | I think we do want to expand it once we have at least a 2nd hardware pool (from redhat) and everything is running fast and stable | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | but lifeless can answer that better | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | the main consideration is that in general when we test a release on an os, we like to keep testing it on the same os; since the fast releases of both ubuntu and fedora have shorter lives than openstack stable releases | 19:20 |
| jeblair | so if we were to start running nova unit tests on saucy, we would not be able to continue duing that for the whole life of icehouse | 19:21 |
| jeblair | that's why the primary testing platforms are lts/centos | 19:21 |
| jeblair | we could additionally run tests on fedora or latest-ubuntu, if that got us something, but in general it doesn't | 19:22 |
| jeblair | specifically for tripleo, i could see how it would though | 19:22 |
| fungi | similarly, there's little point in supporting security fixes for a project which is only being tested on distros which are no longer themselves under security support | 19:22 |
| jeblair | so running tripleo master on the CD platforms it wants to deploy on makes sense to me. more so than say nova unit tests or even the devstack-gate. | 19:23 |
| fungi | and the chances that a deployer will upgrade the operating system underneath openstack without upgrading openstack are somewhat low | 19:23 |
| jeblair | fungi: ++ | 19:23 |
| fungi | which leaves us with stable releases on distro releases which outlive or at least keep pace with them | 19:23 |
| clarkb | ++ | 19:23 |
| lifeless | ok so | 19:24 |
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| lifeless | the RH cloud is a)more capacity but more importantly its the multi-vendor multi-site redundancy we were told we needed for gating | 19:24 |
| lifeless | so the goal with the RH cloud is to get to having gate jobs for deploys. | 19:25 |
| fungi | got it. so fedora is being used for the undercloud instances then? | 19:25 |
| lifeless | fungi: there's several facets | 19:25 |
| lifeless | fungi: the RH region will be running on top of Fedora, so that we're running two regions with two different distros | 19:25 |
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| lifeless | thats a coverage thing to find things tests don't, as much as anything ;) | 19:25 |
| lifeless | fungi: separately | 19:25 |
| fungi | neat | 19:26 |
| lifeless | fungi: we want to know that we work on fedora, so we want to gate it - because all the devs work on fedora there, and breaking folk is not nice | 19:26 |
| lifeless | fungi: but also, we'll have a production region running fedora. We want that to not break. | 19:26 |
| lifeless | so circular logic :) | 19:26 |
| fungi | sure | 19:27 |
| jeblair | lifeless: what do you want to gate on fedora? unit tests? devstack-gate? | 19:27 |
| lifeless | jeblair: tripleo-gate | 19:27 |
| lifeless | jeblair: we want to gate tripleo-gate on fedora and ubuntu and possibly more in future; nothing to do with unittests or d-g | 19:27 |
| jeblair | makes sense. | 19:27 |
| lifeless | jeblair: but tripleo-gate will include tempest | 19:27 |
| lifeless | what else | 19:28 |
| lifeless | oh, we're happy for excess capacity to be d-g nodes | 19:28 |
| lifeless | and they can be whatever you want to upload to glance | 19:28 |
| lifeless | centos etc | 19:28 |
| jeblair | lifeless: sure. so that all makes sense and should work fine as long as you are focusing on CD and master | 19:28 |
| lifeless | yup | 19:28 |
| fungi | yay actual usable glance! | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: if tripleo and tripleo-gate start to want to service stable branches, then you'll run into the same disconnect that left us with lts/centos | 19:29 |
| lifeless | I think when slagle's stable branch stuff happens, in the first iteration it won't be tested on updates. | 19:29 |
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| lifeless | simply because we don't have capacity at the moment | 19:29 |
| jeblair | lifeless: this is perhaps not a problem we need to solve now though, but to be aware of for later. | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | also, yay actual usable glance! :) | 19:30 |
| slagle | yea, i'm not honestly sure if we're going to want the stable branches stuff for fedora | 19:30 |
| lifeless | if vendors want to step up with enough capacity for that, in enough regions to satisfy the infra redundancy stuff, then we can do tests for those branches on suitable oses | 19:30 |
| slagle | i suspect centos would be fine | 19:30 |
| lifeless | slagle: yah | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | ok. i think this has been useful. thanks. | 19:30 |
| jeblair | anything else on this topic? | 19:31 |
| fungi | however if you don't test master on centos too, then come release time you're stuck with software which probably only runs on fedora | 19:31 |
| pleia2 | I think that's it | 19:31 |
| jeblair | fungi: yep. so that could look like master on centos+fedora, then stable on centos. | 19:31 |
| lifeless | jeblair: similar for ubuntu family, and debian family, and so on. | 19:32 |
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| fungi | agreed | 19:32 |
| lifeless | but | 19:32 |
| lifeless | baby steps | 19:32 |
| * fungi was singling fedora/centos out as merely an example | 19:32 | |
| jeblair | #topic Requested StackForge project rename (fungi, clarkb, zhiwei) | 19:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Requested StackForge project rename (fungi, clarkb, zhiwei) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:32 | |
| lifeless | Specifically - I want to get the current check jobs covering more of the feature set, and I want to get them gating. | 19:32 |
| lifeless | then add width. | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: ++depth first. | 19:33 |
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| clarkb | hrm I thought zhiwei was going to attend the meeting? are you around? | 19:33 |
| fungi | clarkb: he did pop up on sunday i think (which was probably his monday) saying he was back and ready when we are | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | too bad he missed the oslo renames | 19:34 |
| clarkb | I can do this weekend, weekend after that is harder, iirc holiday and stuff | 19:34 |
| jeblair | i'd prefer to batch this with openstack downtime. | 19:34 |
| clarkb | jeblair: wfm | 19:34 |
| SergeyLukjanov | which projects should be renamed? | 19:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | looks like I've missed it | 19:35 |
| clarkb | SergeyLukjanov: the chef cookbook project for ceilometer | 19:35 |
| SergeyLukjanov | clarkb, oh | 19:35 |
| clarkb | however, maybe we can do it with sava*cough*? | 19:35 |
| fungi | the stackforge/chef-metering-cookbook s/metering/telemetry/ i think | 19:35 |
| fungi | something like that | 19:35 |
| fungi | SergeyLukjanov: did you have a timeline for when savana projects might be ready to rename? | 19:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | heh, I hope that we'll choose the name in a few weeks | 19:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | but the soft deadline is i3 | 19:36 |
| SergeyLukjanov | and we already have tons of options | 19:37 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | so, couldn't guarantee any timeline for savanna renaming | 19:37 |
| fungi | we do have a bug with the most recent gerrit commentlink config changes breaking change-id links, but that'll only need a very quick gerrit restart so batching up with actual renames would definitely be better | 19:37 |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: around? | 19:37 |
| dguitarbite | jeblair: yes | 19:37 |
| jeblair | i'm going to jump around on the agenda | 19:38 |
| jeblair | #topic Request for Moodle App Integration to infra for Training-Manuals (dguitarbite, sarob) | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Request for Moodle App Integration to infra for Training-Manuals (dguitarbite, sarob) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:38 | |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: what's up? :) | 19:38 |
| dguitarbite | hey jeblair :) | 19:38 |
| fungi | annegentle had questions on this topic too, so she may want to listen in | 19:38 |
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| dguitarbite | sarob and our team designing OpenStack-Training did some testing with Moodle App for quizzes and other content delivery which is not covered at present | 19:39 |
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| dguitarbite | as of now its hosted on aptira servers http://os-trainingquiz.aptira.com/ | 19:39 |
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| dguitarbite | I would like to know if its possible to move it on Infra | 19:40 |
| dguitarbite | and if yes, what are the requirements/steps/procedures to follow. | 19:40 |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: almost certainly yes | 19:41 |
| fungi | dguitarbite: do you/they have at least an outline of the steps necessary to install and configure that site? | 19:41 |
| dguitarbite | yes | 19:41 |
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| fungi | we'd probably be able to spot pain points more easily with access to some documentation about what's involved | 19:42 |
| dguitarbite | we have gdoc for the same, I will share the link | 19:42 |
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| clarkb | there isn't existing config management for it si there? if so that may make a translation to infra puppet simple | 19:42 |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: so the cool thing is that anyone can basically do almost everything needed to spin up and maintain a server under openstack-infra | 19:42 |
| fungi | the short answer is that someone will need to encode the steps necessary for setting up the server into a puppet manifest and associated files so that it's repeatable | 19:43 |
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| fungi | and contribute that as a change for review to the openstack-infra/config project | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | dguitarbite: here's the detailed steps: http://ci.openstack.org/sysadmin.html#adding-a-new-server but reading that whole page is probably a good idea | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | dguitarbite: but yeah, what fungi outlined is probably the best way to proceed | 19:45 |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: let's spend a bit of time reviewing that doc and talking about it to make sure we're on the same page | 19:45 |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: then write a puppet manifest for it | 19:45 |
| jeblair | dguitarbite: who installed the current system? | 19:45 |
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| dguitarbite_ | sorry net issue | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | dguitarbite_: np, you can see the bottom of http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.log.txt in case you missed anything | 19:47 |
| fungi | eek, you probably missed most of that | 19:47 |
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| dguitarbite_ | thanks | 19:47 |
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| clarkb | bots to the rescue | 19:48 |
| dguitarbite_ | well I installed the current system | 19:48 |
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| dguitarbite_ | also I would love to push some puppet code to infra | 19:49 |
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| dguitarbite_ | I installed *Moodle* | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | dguitarbite_: perfect; then we'll help you do that! | 19:49 |
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| dguitarbite_ | dstanek: thanks | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | dguitarbite_: all right, so send us the link to the doc, and we'll look it over to see where the pitfalls might be, then we'll help you get started writing the puppet to manage the server | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | we only have a few minutes left, so i want to jump to this topic since i think people woke up early for it | 19:51 |
| jeblair | #topic Consider a meeting time that allows team members from AU to participate (anteaya) | 19:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Consider a meeting time that allows team members from AU to participate (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:51 | |
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| fungi | (...and eu) | 19:51 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | heh | 19:52 |
| jeblair | anteaya proposed we move the meeting to Tuesdays at 2200 UTC | 19:52 |
| jeblair | i'd like to make some general comments on the subject... | 19:52 |
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| dguitarbite_ | annegentle: any questions about moodle? | 19:52 |
| SergeyLukjanov | 2am for me, can't say that i like this time for meeting ;) | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | i do think this meeting is important for cross-project collaboration | 19:52 |
| mattoliverau | 2200 UTC is 9am Wednesday morning in my Aus (Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne) time zone | 19:52 |
| jeblair | it is often good to get a bunch of people working on different issues together here | 19:53 |
| fungi | 2200 utc will also probably end up conflicting with jeblair and i on foundation staff meetings once dst starts again, unless the weeks alternate from ours or we convince the staff to shift that | 19:53 |
| jeblair | but attending this meeting is not necessary in order to contribute to infra | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | most of us are in channel and responsive during most of our working days | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | and so generally if something is blocking you, that can be handled outside of the meeting | 19:54 |
| fungi | an alternate proposal i've seen is to have two meetings a week at different times, and people who want to attend both (if it's convenient for them) can cross-pollinate topics | 19:54 |
| clarkb | fungi: right, so I was also going to suggest we could do two times, one earlier for EU and one later for AU | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | i'm open to moving the meetings to accomodate people when there is a need, but i'm not sure we're at that point yet | 19:55 |
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| fungi | i'm personally cool attending meetings at odd hours for me if there's a group consensus that it will be beneficial | 19:56 |
| jeblair | let me put it this way; if this meeting time is inhibiting someone from contributing to openstack-infra, please let me know | 19:56 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | btw I'm still able to attend 2200 UTC meeting, especially if it'll be not each week ;) | 19:57 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | 2 mins left | 19:58 |
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| mattoliverau | Seeing as time doesn't stop, someone will always have to face a bad time. SergeyLukjanov 2am is a horrible time for you to have to get up. | 19:58 |
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| fungi | and i don't think anyone should necessarily feel compelled to attend the meeting, regardless of what time it's held at. if that gets in the way of contributing we need to figure out ways to improve the ways in which we enable productive contributors | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | fungi: indeed | 19:59 |
| SergeyLukjanov | agreed | 19:59 |
| fungi | and that might mean shifting meeting times, but it also could mean lots of other solutions | 19:59 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | I hope that I can help mattoliverau due to my UTC+0400 tz | 19:59 |
| jeblair | okay, let's keep this meeting where it is now; when we find that movining the meeting time (including alternating) would help us achieve a specific goal, let's consider it then. | 19:59 |
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| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov: that would be great | 19:59 |
| fungi | and speaking of time, we're at it | 20:00 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone; zaro, we'll try to catch up on gerrit in channel | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 20:00:18 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.html | 20:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
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| markmc | yo | 20:00 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 20:00 |
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| jraim | Here for Barbican | 20:00 |
| mikal | Hi | 20:00 |
| jeblair | hi | 20:01 |
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| ttx | annegentle, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, lifeless, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:01 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | that makes 8 of us, enough to run | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 20:01:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:02 |
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| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:02 |
| ttx | #topic Incubation request: Barbican | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubation request: Barbican (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | Original request: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-January/025860.html | 20:02 |
| ttx | Etherpad with analysis: | 20:02 |
| ttx | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/GFoJ4LpK8A | 20:02 |
| * ttx refreshes | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | Looks like everything is covered | 20:04 |
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| russellb | yep | 20:04 |
| ttx | jraim: devstack-gate job still missing, but on its way ? | 20:04 |
| russellb | really appreciate the hard work since we last talked | 20:04 |
| jraim | jraim: the devstack integration is done and the reviews look good, but it hasn't been merged yet | 20:04 |
| jraim | we need to poke some people I think | 20:04 |
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| jraim | russellb: thanks - I appreciate the feedback we've gotten from everyone during this process | 20:05 |
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| ttx | comments anyone ? | 20:05 |
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| vishy | yes | 20:05 |
| vishy | I was wondering if there were any steps taken based on justinsbs feedback | 20:06 |
| annegentle | yes | 20:06 |
| vishy | about the apis | 20:06 |
| lifeless | ttx: o/ | 20:06 |
| ttx | lifeless, annegentle: welcome | 20:06 |
| jraim | vishy: the issue about having more of the API defined? | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | jraim: I had also hoped the api docs would be in a public repo for comment and review | 20:07 |
| sdague | ttx: o/ as well | 20:07 |
| vishy | jraim: the thread here http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015477.html | 20:07 |
| russellb | technically API docs are listed as a requirement, too ... so have to decide whether we're willing to waive that if they're not there ... also have the devstack-gate issue | 20:08 |
| jraim | annegentle: we plan to do that, I think ayoung put in the first review for it | 20:08 |
| vishy | jraim: actually wrong thread | 20:08 |
| vishy | this one: http://markmail.org/message/erzouim6pnqjaqtz | 20:08 |
| jraim | russellb: we do have API docs on our wiki in github and those are being moved to docbook now | 20:08 |
| markmc | are these not API docs? https://github.com/cloudkeep/barbican/wiki/Application-Programming-Interface | 20:08 |
| russellb | jraim: ok | 20:08 |
| russellb | nm then | 20:09 |
| annegentle | jraim: ah, found it. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71396/ | 20:09 |
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| jraim | vishy: right. While I sympathize with the problem, I don't think roughing out APIs that don't have code or consumers before they are needed is the right way to go | 20:09 |
| vishy | specifically key rotation / symmetric keys | 20:09 |
| vishy | so the plan is to figure it out later and fix it in v2? | 20:09 |
| jraim | I think the plan is to add those features when there is need and deal with the API changes. Hopefully, we can do them in a backwards compatible manner | 20:10 |
| vishy | jraim: ok | 20:10 |
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| jraim | if we can't, then we'll have to factor that into the implementation | 20:10 |
| ttx | vishy: they are entering incubation, not being released just now | 20:10 |
| vishy | ttx: I know, I'm unclear on when a 1.0 api would be considered final | 20:11 |
| vishy | but it isn't totally obvious that it would be at integration time | 20:11 |
| vishy | so I wanted to follow up a bit on justin's concerns | 20:11 |
| ttx | vishy: yes, I have a point about that later in the meeting | 20:11 |
| ttx | (about the API stability constraints) | 20:12 |
| jraim | it is a reasonable concern. I'm not sure how to fix it however. Building stable APIs is hard | 20:12 |
| markmc | jraim, what happens "the Cloud Keep initiative" if Barbican enters Incubation? | 20:12 |
| jraim | we can try the best we can and then version appropriately | 20:12 |
| jraim | markmc: most of our work is already moved over to stackforge | 20:12 |
| jeblair | and when we would expect other openstack projects to start using it -- on incubation, in the j cycle, or graduation... | 20:12 |
| jraim | CloudKeep might keep some things outside of OpenStack (e.g. vendor plugins, etc) | 20:12 |
| jraim | but other than that, I don't have a lot of plans for it | 20:12 |
| markmc | jraim, I guess I'm asking what would be part of this new program apart from barbican and python-barbicanclient | 20:13 |
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| russellb | jraim: which plugins do you expect to be in barbican then? | 20:13 |
| markmc | jraim, or how would you decide as PTL what to move into the program from cloudkeep and what to keep in cloudkeep? | 20:13 |
| jraim | markmc: right now, I think that's it. We are looking at Dogtag integration which might be its own repo, we'll see how the RedHat guys feel | 20:13 |
| russellb | which would you encourage in vs out | 20:13 |
| russellb | or how would you decide that | 20:14 |
| jraim | markmc: off the top of my head, anything that we would want to use openstack process for (e.g. gerrit, etc) would move over | 20:14 |
| jraim | not sure how other projects handle vendor plugins | 20:14 |
| jraim | but I'd probably steal their ideas on that one | 20:14 |
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| jraim | I'd rather default to in OpenStack / in-tree is possible | 20:14 |
| russellb | include them all for the most part, as long as they make sense / play by the rules | 20:14 |
| mikal | Why wouldn't you want to use our process for everything? | 20:14 |
| jraim | and just be mindful of adding things that no one cares about | 20:14 |
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| markmc | jraim, no https://github.com/stackforge/postern ? and cloudkeep/postern is essentially empty ? | 20:15 |
| mikal | Ahhh, ok | 20:15 |
| jraim | mikal: if the code is written by a non-contributor maybe? | 20:15 |
| markmc | jraim, how important is an agent to barbican? | 20:15 |
| jraim | markmc: is was part of the original idea behind the project. Since then, we've looked at certmonger and some other options | 20:15 |
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| jraim | we might still create an agent if there are use cases for it | 20:15 |
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| markmc | ok, so no use cases requiring it right now? | 20:16 |
| jraim | not sure if those are useful for openstack services or just consumers of an openstack cloud | 20:16 |
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| jraim | markmc: I have some use cases for apps that run on an openstack cloud | 20:16 |
| jraim | and redhat has some based on certmonger for openstack services | 20:16 |
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| jraim | there are some needs there, but more thought required before we started working on anything | 20:16 |
| jraim | redhat might move forward with certmonger integreation - we've talked about it | 20:17 |
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| markmc | so, cloud operators would need to get an agent from elsewhere for those use cases ? | 20:17 |
| jraim | markmc: we could go either way. If we think it belongs in openstack, happy to do it here | 20:17 |
| markmc | but where's the agent now? | 20:17 |
| ttx | TC members: do you think we should wait for the minimal devstack-gate requirement to be fully implemented before considering this request ? Or can we provisionally accept ? | 20:18 |
| jraim | but if it just an app that uses barbican that can work on any platform, maybe it doesn't go in openstack? | 20:18 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think we should wait | 20:18 |
| markmc | jraim, if features of barbican aren't functional to users of openstack clouds without the agent, then I think it's an important part of this new program | 20:18 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70512/ | 20:19 |
| annegentle | (That's the review for the devstack gate, right sdague?) | 20:19 |
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| jraim | markmc: I would agree. | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | markmc: +1 | 20:19 |
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| markmc | jraim, where's the code for the agent? | 20:19 |
| ttx | markmc: the agent looks pretty optional to me ? | 20:19 |
| markmc | ttx, that's what I was asking - sounds like it's required for some use cases | 20:19 |
| sdague | annegentle: that's the devstack side | 20:19 |
| jraim | ttx: right now, certainly since it doesn't exist :) | 20:19 |
| markmc | jraim, ah! | 20:19 |
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| sdague | jraim: where's the d-g side of that? | 20:19 |
| markmc | <markmc> ok, so no use cases requiring it right now? | 20:19 |
| jeblair | i think the reason for that requirement was to either make sure it gets done, or determine major obstacles; i don't think that process is far enough along yet to say it's served either of those purposes. | 20:20 |
| markmc | <jraim> markmc: I have some use cases for apps that run on an openstack cloud | 20:20 |
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| ttx | https://github.com/cloudkeep/postern#why-use-postern make it look like a client lib | 20:20 |
| markmc | jraim, that's where the confusion came from :) | 20:20 |
| jraim | markmc: we have some ideas about what an agent could enable, but nothing is done yet | 20:20 |
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| russellb | sdague: not implemented | 20:20 |
| russellb | sdague: open question of whether we should block on it | 20:20 |
| russellb | sdague: devstack support up for review, no job yet, AFAIK | 20:20 |
| sdague | right, I think having the job is pretty important | 20:20 |
| jraim | markmc: understood, sorry about that. I just meant we have some ideas of problems we could solve with it, nothing done yet | 20:21 |
| sdague | because it demonstrates this can actually install and coexist with the rest of openstack | 20:21 |
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| russellb | i think we have the requirements for good reasons ... and should probably defer again | 20:21 |
| ttx | OK, so it looks like we should delay voting until all requirements are filled | 20:21 |
| russellb | and revisit once it's done | 20:21 |
| mikal | russellb: I agree | 20:21 |
| russellb | ttx: +1 | 20:21 |
| markmc | jraim, ok, so .. palisade :) | 20:21 |
| annegentle | ttx: sounds good | 20:21 |
| markmc | jraim, does that become an horizon integration effort? | 20:21 |
| ttx | is there anything else the barbican folks need to cover before coming back to us ? | 20:21 |
| jraim | russellb: sdague when I looked at the gating job, it seemed like being in devstack was enough if you weren't part of enabled services? | 20:21 |
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| jraim | markmc: that's my plan now | 20:21 |
| russellb | jraim: you can have a job that just runs on barbican that spins up devstack with barbican enabled | 20:22 |
| russellb | that's what we need here | 20:22 |
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| sdague | and that does something | 20:22 |
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| sdague | some minimal testing of any nature you like | 20:22 |
| russellb | "hey API, are you alive?" | 20:22 |
| sdague | right | 20:22 |
| russellb | would probably be sufficient at this stage IMO | 20:22 |
| ttx | #info Missing basic devstack-gate job | 20:22 |
| jraim | russellb: so we've been doing that to test our impl, where would we add that job? | 20:22 |
| russellb | let's chat details outside the meeting, happy to give pointers | 20:23 |
| jeblair | jraim: there are a few examples of this; let us know in the #openstack-infra channel and we can point you at them | 20:23 |
| jraim | we did a little of that in just devstack with our exercises, but I'm happy to add it | 20:23 |
| jraim | russellb: great, thanks | 20:23 |
| jraim | jeblair: will do | 20:23 |
| russellb | basically you need 1) devstack, 2) devstack-gate, and 3) infra config | 20:23 |
| russellb | changes in those 3 places | 20:23 |
| ttx | ok, so we should defer the decision on this | 20:23 |
| jeblair | russellb: (actually not devstack-gate for incubation) | 20:23 |
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| mikal | ttx: agreed | 20:23 |
| ttx | jraim: I'll also help you draft the governance repo change that will serve as the base for the final decision | 20:23 |
| jraim | ttx: great | 20:23 |
| russellb | jeblair: i guess so, ENABLED_SERVICES is enough, you're right | 20:23 |
| annegentle | I would like a single source of truth for API docs (not that I'm noticing disagreement, but just noting) | 20:23 |
| ttx | jraim: ping me when the devstack-gate stuff is covered | 20:24 |
| russellb | ok, devstack and infra config :) | 20:24 |
| ttx | anything else on that topic ? | 20:24 |
| jraim | annegentle: I think the goal is to migrate to docbook and remove everything else | 20:24 |
| SergeyLukjanov | russellb, btw, is it ok to merge into devstack not yet incubated project? | 20:24 |
| annegentle | jraim: sounds good | 20:24 |
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| markmc | jraim, minor thing, but it'd be good if statements like "The Postern agent is capable of presenting these secrets in various formats to ease integration." weren't in the present tense :) | 20:24 |
| markmc | jraim, from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Barbican/Incubation | 20:25 |
| russellb | errr ... i guess you can do devstack support as plugins, not actually as a patch to devstack itself | 20:25 |
| jraim | markmc: yeah, I'll go back and clean that stuff up. The only impl we ever had was a PoC that couldn't be run in prod | 20:25 |
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| russellb | that's how solum has it for example, and they have a devstack-gate job | 20:25 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 20:25 |
| markmc | jraim, cool | 20:25 |
| sdague | yeh, solum is actually a good example | 20:25 |
| jeblair | SergeyLukjanov, russellb: yeah, i think that's the way devstack wants to go for pre-integrated projects | 20:25 |
| russellb | makes sense | 20:25 |
| ttx | #topic Defining "designated sections" for DefCore | 20:25 |
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| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026413.html | 20:26 |
| ttx | In that thread I proposed that we approached this question in two steps | 20:26 |
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| ttx | First we would answer the objective question: "which parts of each project have a pluggable interface ?" | 20:26 |
| ttx | Then, once we have that list, we could answer a second question: "where, in that list, is it acceptable to run an out of tree implementation ?" | 20:26 |
| russellb | a public pluggable interface | 20:26 |
| ttx | russellb: +1 | 20:26 |
| ttx | Anyone against this two-step approach ? | 20:26 |
| sdague | nope, lgtm | 20:27 |
| markmc | well | 20:27 |
| markmc | I don't know that there was much agreement that this is going to ultimately be useful | 20:27 |
| markmc | right? | 20:27 |
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| russellb | markmc: +1 | 20:27 |
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| markmc | e.g. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026559.html | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | agree with markmc | 20:27 |
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| mikal | I think we need to discuss how we feel about vendor specific modifications to the unpluggable bits too | 20:27 |
| jgriffith | also not entirely sure about that appraoch | 20:27 |
| markmc | "The request from the DefCore committee around designated sections would replace Section 2(i) in the above example. The external API testing that is being developed would fulfill Section 3." | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | what is "this"? designating at all, or using the plugin API? | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | as the designation | 20:28 |
| markmc | personally, the more I think about it - I'd rather us just be tackling the API testing part | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | markmc: can you describe? | 20:28 |
| jgriffith | markmc: just API compat and call it good? | 20:28 |
| russellb | API compat and a general "you must use the code" statement? | 20:28 |
| markmc | "include the entirety of the [..] code from either of the latest two releases and associated milestones, but no older" | 20:28 |
| markmc | that seems fine to me for now | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | include != "run" | 20:29 |
| russellb | that's the current statement right? | 20:29 |
| mikal | markmc: I'd prefer something along the lines of "include and run" | 20:29 |
| markmc | no point blocking progress on API testing on the "run the code" part | 20:29 |
| markmc | mikal, well, think of a distro - a distro can only include it | 20:29 |
| russellb | true | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | markmc: I'd be ok with that, and of course if the project accepts pluggable drivers use whatever you want as long as the API tests work | 20:29 |
| annegentle | core or extensions too? | 20:29 |
| annegentle | er, API core | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | I'm finding many of the cinder drivers don't succeed here | 20:29 |
| mikal | markmc: well, they run it by adding the relevant hooks (e.g. systemd start entries) | 20:29 |
| russellb | i think all this detailed listing of components (and trying to keep that accurate for all of these rapidly evolving projects) sounds like a nightmare | 20:29 |
| jgriffith | russellb: +1 | 20:30 |
| russellb | and feels like overkill | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | russellb: and I'm not sure what/if it means | 20:30 |
| markmc | mikal, our users run the code | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | is the driving factor there some desire to have part of a project not be listed as core? | 20:30 |
| lifeless | mikal: the deployed instances run it, distros only in testing. | 20:30 |
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| ttx | hmm, I think this is not our game, though. Defcore is where those rules are defined... and they ask us to designate code sections. If you think that's not the right approach, you can fight that approach at DefCore level | 20:30 |
| russellb | markmc: i really liked your list comment about keeping what we say now, and go after anyone that the board doesn't feel is acting in good faith | 20:30 |
| mikal | markmc: I don't want someone re-writing nova in Java, and then saying they've included the python code by dumping it in a dir and therefore can use the trademark | 20:30 |
| lifeless | mikal: Ubuntu OpenStack for instance. | 20:30 |
| ttx | i'm just trying to answer their technical question | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | mikal: +1 | 20:30 |
| jgriffith | ttx: so why isn't the tempst gate tests our defcore test? | 20:31 |
| markmc | mikal, sure - I just don't think that's what we need to be going after right now | 20:31 |
| lifeless | so maybe we only certify /installs/ of OpenStack | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I mean, we define OpenStak by what we gate on | 20:31 |
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| russellb | ttx: well can we give feedback to our resident board members? :) | 20:31 |
| sdague | jgriffith: realistically, I expect the defcore folks are going to lift tests from tempest | 20:31 |
| markmc | mikal, i.e. which is the best next baby step - firming up the "run the code" requirements or adding API testing requirements? | 20:31 |
| lifeless | and folk that are intermediaries can say that their installer gets you a certifiable OpenStack ? | 20:31 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: the distros will want to use the trademark too | 20:31 |
| sdague | but lets take some concrete examples | 20:31 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: yes, and I support that | 20:31 |
| mikal | markmc: but is the board expecting this to be a baby step, or the final answer for several years? | 20:31 |
| ttx | russellb: we can | 20:32 |
| markmc | ttx, we can and should give our feedback | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | sdague: I would hope so, but I'm saying is this all being made much more complicated than it should be? | 20:32 |
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| sdague | for instance, tempest full doesn't pass on any of the hypervisors besides kvm (some pass almost all, but not quite all) | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: me, too, but that means we need some way to certify the distros, no? | 20:32 |
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| sdague | and it passes only about 60% if you have cells enabled | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | sdague: ahhh.... see where you're going | 20:32 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: problem is that a distro is an installer basically | 20:32 |
| markmc | mikal, our feedback could be "we'd prefer to focus our (the TC) energies right now on helping you with API testing - come back later on the other stuff" | 20:33 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: and installers can install both meets-requirements and doesn't-meet-requirements clouds | 20:33 |
| ttx | jgriffith: "we" don't define the trademark rules. The board does. We can voice our opinion, but that's about it | 20:33 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: so | 20:33 |
| sdague | so that makes me scratch my head a bunch about what is Nova, if we consider all those options | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | sdague: so.... IMO you pair out what we gate on, thy Hypervisor things would have to be fixed if you want to run them and be "OpenStacK" cloud | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | ttx: understood.... | 20:33 |
| ttx | Personally I'd rather have the TC stay away from trademark usage rules | 20:33 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: I don't think we can say 'you get the trademark only if ALL THE INSTALLS you do meet the requirements' | 20:33 |
| mikal | markmc: yes, but perhaps with a deadline? We ant to defer the other bit until the Juno release? | 20:33 |
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| ttx | which is why we separated integrated from core in the first place | 20:33 |
| sdague | or decide for each project what is the actual API contract | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: I don't think that's what I was suggesting | 20:33 |
| jgriffith | ttx: but defining "code components" is what I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around | 20:33 |
| mikal | s/ant/want/ | 20:33 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: instead, I think it has to be 'you get the trademark if your default meets the requirements' | 20:33 |
| russellb | ttx: hard to stay away when tech details get wrapped up into defining it | 20:33 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: or something like that | 20:34 |
| russellb | ttx: otherwise totally +1 | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: +1 | 20:34 |
| sdague | I think we've gone pretty heavy on optional API, and need to reconsider that if we want interop | 20:34 |
| ttx | russellb: right. We can basically issue a statement saying this is not very convenient, and propose an alternate approach | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | sdague: +infinity | 20:34 |
| markmc | ttx, yes, we want to stay away from trademark policy decisions - I agree | 20:34 |
| russellb | ttx: fair | 20:34 |
| ttx | russellb: but if they decide to ignore our statement, we'll have to give them the technical answers they are asking for | 20:34 |
| russellb | boo | 20:35 |
| ttx | because I think we are better placed to answer them than they are | 20:35 |
| russellb | :-p | 20:35 |
| lifeless | so didn't we try this with plugins vs modules etc | 20:35 |
| russellb | yes, that's true. | 20:35 |
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| lifeless | and ended up with terrible verbiage | 20:35 |
| markmc | we don't have to give the board answers :) | 20:35 |
| ttx | markmc: so you think we should pause and first propose an alternate approach ? | 20:35 |
| markmc | "this is a bad idea, we don't want to help" :) | 20:35 |
| ttx | markmc: sure. they will designate the code themselves then | 20:35 |
| russellb | markmc: that's kind of how i feel :( | 20:35 |
| markmc | I'm pretty certain if the consensus amongst us that this is a bad idea or not the right time | 20:35 |
| markmc | and that we should focus our efforts now on API testing | 20:36 |
| jgriffith | markmc: or how about "I can't help if you can't explain what you're trying to solve" | 20:36 |
| markmc | the board would take that on ... uh ... board | 20:36 |
| jgriffith | markmc: because frankly I'm still unclear | 20:36 |
| lifeless | jgriffith: +1 | 20:36 |
| dhellmann | markmc: *groan* | 20:36 |
| sdague | markmc: honestly, I'm also concerned that the parties driving this are basically part of orgs that don't give anything back (or much back) to the community as well | 20:36 |
| annegentle | crazy idea, why not make the definition the docs rather than the code? | 20:36 |
| lifeless | It seems to me that things like 'dont get the trademark if you rewrite in java' are better directly measured, rather than through awkward indirect means | 20:36 |
| ttx | markmc: at the very least we need to come up with an aswer detailing why we think it's a bad idea | 20:36 |
| * annegentle has to ask | 20:36 | |
| markmc | sdague, I'd prefer to assume good faith | 20:36 |
| mikal | annegentle: this is mostly about interop of deployments though | 20:37 |
| sdague | because, honestly would some of this energy in defcore going into actually helping on test implementation | 20:37 |
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| annegentle | mikal: but you know how many software companies ensure legal contracts are bound by docs? | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | ttx: let's provide those details then | 20:37 |
| mikal | annegentle: no | 20:37 |
| ttx | do we have a volunteer to draft the TC response ("sounds like a bad idea") ? | 20:37 |
| annegentle | mikal: so it seems like a write up away from code might be the better discussion ground than the code itself | 20:37 |
| sdague | and I think the fact that the vend diagram of people that work on the test tool chain for OpenStack have 0 overlap with the people working to define DefCore is probably a big part of the disconnect | 20:38 |
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| lifeless | sdague: venn ? | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | I suppose all of this falls out if you say: "Must use <project>/API code from release and pass API compat test | 20:38 |
| sdague | lifeless: yes | 20:38 |
| annegentle | mikal: often software companies state in the contract where they sell the product that the product can only do what the docs say | 20:38 |
| mikal | ttx: I think a review in governance would be a good way to do that | 20:38 |
| annegentle | (well, not sure if often is correct, that's rather vague) | 20:38 |
| mikal | annegentle: oh, ok | 20:38 |
| jgriffith | That enforces what's "required" non-pluggable | 20:38 |
| ttx | mikal: sure. You still need to seed it with something | 20:38 |
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| ttx | mikal: looking for someone to lead that | 20:38 |
| mikal | ttx: sure, I will draft something if no one else wants to | 20:39 |
| annegentle | just wondering if the response is "code is too difficult to split in this way, let's try a document" | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: the problem with natural language docs for enforcement is they are open to interpretation -- a test suite is not | 20:39 |
| * russellb nominates markmc :-p | 20:39 | |
| annegentle | dhellmann: true that | 20:39 |
| mikal | markmc is the other obvious candidate, but I can work with him on something | 20:39 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: a test suite certainly is ... in that you can just fake the thing it talks too. | 20:39 |
| markmc | mikal, sounds good | 20:39 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: that is endemic in vendor interop efforts. | 20:39 |
| jgriffith | lifeless: +100000 | 20:39 |
| russellb | mikal: markmc sounds great to me | 20:39 |
| ttx | We basically need a DefCore delegate | 20:39 |
| annegentle | lifeless: good to know | 20:39 |
| sdague | lifeless: sure, but it's at least easier for well intentioned players to do the right thing | 20:40 |
| markmc | ttx, that would be good - especially if it wasn't me or monty | 20:40 |
| mikal | ttx: I said at the HK board meeting I was happy to help them, they've never asked me for anything | 20:40 |
| sdague | gamers are going to always find a way around | 20:40 |
| mikal | ttx: so I stand by that | 20:40 |
| mikal | ttx: I can draft something with markmc's input for next week | 20:40 |
| russellb | mikal: i support you in this endeavor. | 20:40 |
| markmc | ttx, just sign up to the defcore-committee list, then | 20:40 |
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| lifeless | sdague: right, but if you look at e.g. http proxy bake offs, for decades now, every single commercial vendor targets the test suite specifically. | 20:40 |
| markmc | ttx, meeting notifications go there ... mostly, I think | 20:40 |
| markmc | sorry | 20:40 |
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| markmc | mikal, ^^ that's to you | 20:40 |
| lifeless | sdague: we're going to see exacrly the same thing. | 20:40 |
| ttx | mikal: would you be willing to follow DefCore work and act as a TC interface there ? We badly need someone | 20:40 |
| markmc | mikal, I don't have any more insight into anything than what goes across that list | 20:40 |
| mikal | markmc: this is the first I've heard there's a list. I will give it a try | 20:41 |
| mikal | ttx: sure | 20:41 |
| markmc | mikal, cool | 20:41 |
| ttx | mikal: awesome | 20:41 |
| markmc | mikal, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/defcore-committee/ | 20:41 |
| mikal | ttx: until we find someone better... | 20:41 |
| ttx | mikal: thx for volunteering ;) | 20:41 |
| annegentle | go go mikal | 20:41 |
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| sdague | lifeless: so what's your alternative? | 20:41 |
| russellb | mikal: ^5 gogogo | 20:41 |
| sdague | yeh, thanks mikal | 20:41 |
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| mikal | I may yet rage quit, but I'll give it a go | 20:42 |
| ttx | because given my bandwidth, i'm inclined to provide them the answers they want just because I don't have time to follow or suggest better routes. (lame, I know) | 20:42 |
| annegentle | mikal: I'll subscribe to the list too and can be your backup | 20:42 |
| annegentle | ttx: if that's ok | 20:42 |
| mikal | annegentle: thanks, I would love that | 20:42 |
| lifeless | sdague: I'm just saying, we can't use the test suite as a proxy metric for other things; what it exercises *exactly* will be covered, other things - like corner cases - may well be all over the shop. | 20:42 |
| ttx | as long as there is someone tracking that effort closely, I think we are good | 20:42 |
| lifeless | sdague: and it won't prevent the 'rewrite the plumbing' scenario on its own | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | mikal, annegentle: I've subscribed, too | 20:42 |
| markmc | ttx, you think it's easier to get those answers? | 20:43 |
| markmc | ttx, my assumption is we'll tie ourselves up in knots working out the answers? | 20:43 |
| ttx | markmc: it's compatible with my bandwidth. | 20:43 |
| markmc | ttx, ahm ok :) | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | ttx: let's let mikal have a chance | 20:43 |
| mikal | Ok, on the list | 20:43 |
| * russellb joined the list too | 20:43 | |
| ttx | markmc: having TC delegates follow defcore and propose alternative solutions is 100x better | 20:43 |
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| * markmcclain joined too | 20:43 | |
| sdague | lifeless: it's better than not. At least those interfaces will be interoperable. Saying the problem is hard doesn't seem to me like a reason to throw in the towl | 20:43 |
| lifeless | sdague: I wasn't suggesting throwing in the towel | 20:44 |
| lifeless | sdague: I was answering '09:39 < dhellmann> annegentle: the problem with natural language docs for enforcement is they are open to interpretation -- a test suite is not | 20:44 |
| zehicle_at_dell | ttx, I'm happy to have them join! | 20:44 |
| ttx | I know mikal feels strongly about this so I trust him to follow that closely :) | 20:44 |
| lifeless | sdague: which I read as a suggestion to use a test suite instead of english. | 20:44 |
| lifeless | sdague: which is iMO a mistake - its not either-or, its both. | 20:44 |
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| russellb | if tenant == testing: do_the_thing_it_expects() else: do_the_thing_we_want() | 20:44 |
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| russellb | tests not foolproof solution either :) | 20:45 |
| lifeless | russellb: exactly :( | 20:45 |
| lifeless | russellb: thats my point | 20:45 |
| russellb | but a good step forward | 20:45 |
| mikal | lifeless: do you have an alternate solution though? | 20:45 |
| ttx | zehicle: I think having clear TC delegates will help solving the communication issues we had in the past | 20:45 |
| sdague | sure, I'm not saying they are. I'm saying they are a good first step | 20:45 |
| zehicle_at_dell | please let us know who is going to join, yes | 20:45 |
| lifeless | mikal: the test suite is a good thing to have. | 20:45 |
| sdague | and it moves everything in the right direction | 20:45 |
| jeblair | russellb: right so the thing is that we would not merge code that does that | 20:45 |
| lifeless | mikal: prose saying what we mean is a good thing to have. | 20:45 |
| annegentle | and for docs I was not really thinking of narrative but of reference docs like API docs, config reference, etc. | 20:45 |
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| lifeless | mikal: I think we should have both. | 20:45 |
| russellb | jeblair: not upstream, but downstream there could be ... i'm being extreme | 20:45 |
| annegentle | to try to get closer to "truth" | 20:45 |
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| jeblair | russellb: which is why i think that the "you must run openstack" is the stronger part of this | 20:45 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: +1 exactly | 20:46 |
| mikal | zehicle_at_dell: I'm going to draft a quick email explaining our plan to that list after this meeting | 20:46 |
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| ttx | #agreed mikal will act as TC interface to follow the DefCore effort and channel TC views. with annegentle as substitute | 20:46 |
| russellb | saying you must run it, sure, defining it in a lot of detail sounds like a rat hole i'm not sure we'll get out of | 20:46 |
| zehicle_at_dell | thanks | 20:46 |
| * ttx feels better about this | 20:46 | |
| ttx | more on this, or can we jump on the next topic ? | 20:47 |
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| ttx | or is that jump to ? | 20:47 |
| sdague | vote jump | 20:47 |
| annegentle | ttx: jump! | 20:47 |
| * russellb jumps | 20:47 | |
| ttx | #topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Nova | 20:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Nova (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:47 | |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026450.html | 20:47 |
| russellb | oh | 20:47 |
| ttx | russellb: you jumped | 20:47 |
| jeblair | russellb: jump back | 20:48 |
| ttx | As we raise requirements for new incubating projects, it was suggested that we should review existing integrated projects to make sure there was a plan to cover any gap | 20:48 |
| * dhellmann wonders if russellb has jumper's remorse | 20:48 | |
| * russellb jumps back quickly | 20:48 | |
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| ttx | I suggested we started the process with projects where the PTL is also a TC member: Nova, Cinder, Neutron | 20:48 |
| ttx | russellb: did you prepare an answer for Nova yet ? | 20:48 |
| russellb | so, nova meetup this week means i haven't had a chance to write up an analysis of Nova vs requirements | 20:48 |
| russellb | i did not :( | 20:48 |
| ttx | haha | 20:48 |
| ttx | no biggie, I have another topic up my sleeve | 20:48 |
| russellb | ok, yeah, let's start that next week | 20:49 |
| russellb | unless another project is ready | 20:49 |
| russellb | (sorry) | 20:49 |
| ttx | jgriffith, markmcclain: you shall be next, so plan to prepare that in the coming weeks | 20:49 |
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| ttx | #topic Minor governance changes | 20:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:49 | |
| * markmcclain can't wait to write the duplicated functionality paragraph | 20:49 | |
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| ttx | markmc: I know, right | 20:49 |
| ttx | * Add some REST API graduation requirements (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68258/) | 20:49 |
| ttx | that was markmcclain, not markmc | 20:50 |
| ttx | So.. on that one... Had a question there about requiring API stability at graduartion time vs. art release time | 20:50 |
| markmc | ttx, I'll mark as WIP - I think these should be "after graduation, before first release" as you say | 20:50 |
| markmc | ttx, which would be a new section | 20:50 |
| ttx | markmc: looks like we need one yes | 20:50 |
| annegentle | ttx: and I wondered about "stability for which version of the API" and timing of that stability | 20:50 |
| ttx | BUT note that we don't review stuff between graduation and release. That happens automatically | 20:50 |
| russellb | hard to enforce that, but at least good for setting clear expectations | 20:51 |
| ttx | i.e. once we said "you will be in the next release", it would take a pretty bad event to make us not follow up on that | 20:51 |
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| NobodyCam | would this be a good time to a graduation question? | 20:51 |
| ttx | because we communicate a lot around that | 20:51 |
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| ttx | NobodyCam: wait for open discussion | 20:51 |
| markmc | ttx, yeah | 20:51 |
| NobodyCam | :) | 20:51 |
| ttx | and we invest a lot around that | 20:51 |
| markmc | ttx, I guess at graduation, we're just looking for a commitment | 20:51 |
| ttx | markthere is still value in detailing the post-graduation tasks | 20:52 |
| lifeless | I think we need to separate out 'stable' vs 'finished' - nova is on v3 for instance | 20:52 |
| lifeless | things evolve | 20:52 |
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| dhellmann | markmc: is there any reason not to hold graduation until a 1.0 API is complete? | 20:52 |
| ttx | damn my markcompletion powers are broken today | 20:52 |
| markmc | dhellmann, just that we've not done it before | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | we've not had most of these guidelines before, right? | 20:53 |
| ttx | markmc: example post-grad tasks would be: get into horizon proper | 20:53 |
| markmc | ttx, yeah | 20:53 |
| ttx | markmc: so feel free to add them to the doc | 20:53 |
| sdague | markmc: have we had a project release without a 1.0 API in the past? | 20:53 |
| markmc | dhellmann, I think we're mostly just documenting existing expectations and firming up them a little | 20:53 |
| ttx | dhellmann: rigth, but I think we commit to supporting the API at release time, not really before | 20:53 |
| markmc | dhellmann, stable API would be quite new | 20:53 |
| markmc | ttx, add them back you mean | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ok | 20:54 |
| markmc | sdague, we're talking about graduation, not release | 20:54 |
| sdague | oh, right | 20:54 |
| ttx | dhellmann: in particular, if integration with other projects creates a need, that should be adressable in the initial API version, not a second one | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ttx: good point | 20:54 |
| russellb | mikal asked a good question on the review | 20:55 |
| ttx | dhellmann: what we want for graduation is a pretty-compete APi. Not a stable one | 20:55 |
| mikal | Yes, I am smart | 20:55 |
| russellb | what if we have a project that we want to be integrated, but doesn't need a REST API | 20:55 |
| ttx | complete* | 20:55 |
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| mikal | russellb: or an API at all | 20:55 |
| russellb | deal with that as an exception if/when it comes up? | 20:55 |
| ttx | russellb: could you make up an example ? | 20:55 |
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| russellb | gantt in theory ... we may want to use rpc only for that | 20:55 |
| ttx | russellb: yeah, exceptions ftw | 20:55 |
| russellb | exceptions is a reasonable answer for me | 20:55 |
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| markmc | well, I think we've always said that incubation is for "server projects" | 20:56 |
| ttx | those rules are moving grounds anyway | 20:56 |
| markmc | which imply API | 20:56 |
| mikal | Or we could just word this differently | 20:56 |
| mikal | "If the project exposes an API..." | 20:56 |
| markmc | and an inter-project RPC API would be a new thing | 20:56 |
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| markmc | think we'd want the TC to vet that | 20:56 |
| russellb | yeah, *punt* | 20:56 |
| russellb | deal with it if/when it comes | 20:56 |
| russellb | gantt nowhere near anything we need to review here | 20:56 |
| ttx | All the other governance changes, i'll approve when they reach enough approvals: | 20:56 |
| ttx | * Add a requirement for deprecating duplicated code (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/) | 20:56 |
| ttx | * Add missed mission statement for Data Processing (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71045/) | 20:56 |
| ttx | * add identity mission statement (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71271/) | 20:57 |
| ttx | * Oslo program changes (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72335/) | 20:57 |
| ttx | Unless someone has a comment about those, we can move to open discussion ? | 20:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, "mission statement for Data Processing" needs one more iteration on my side | 20:57 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: sure, but I don't think it needs to be re-discussed at a TC meeting | 20:57 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, yup, just wording | 20:58 |
| ttx | so we can go on and approve it once it reaches the approvals on the review | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:58 | |
| ttx | We're still missing a number of mission statements | 20:58 |
| ttx | (object store, image service, dashboard, networking, block storage, telemetry, orchestration, infrastructure) | 20:58 |
| markmc | NobodyCam, ^^^ | 20:58 |
| ttx | Would be good if the TC members could lead by example here, before we start chasing the individual PTLs | 20:58 |
| NobodyCam | quickly: graduation question: are items like the nova driver (which are mainly out of our control) and migration scripts required to land for projects like Ironic to graduate? | 20:58 |
| ttx | So jeblair, markmcclain, jgriffith: would be great if you could propose a mission statement addition to the governance repo | 20:58 |
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| russellb | NobodyCam: yes | 20:58 |
| russellb | NobodyCam: there is a governance change up for review that covers this | 20:59 |
| mikal | NobodyCam: I frel like the nova driver would meet the "deprecated code removal" test | 20:59 |
| markmcclain | ttx: ack | 20:59 |
| mikal | s/frel/feel/ | 20:59 |
| russellb | NobodyCam: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/ | 20:59 |
| russellb | very much applies to the ironic case | 20:59 |
| jeblair | ttx: will do | 20:59 |
| markmc | russellb, might be good to clarify your exact expectations e.g. around dates | 20:59 |
| markmc | russellb, it's getting tight | 20:59 |
| NobodyCam | ack :) | 20:59 |
| ttx | markmcclain, jeblair: cool, thx | 20:59 |
| jeblair | ttx: i believe the wiki has the statement that the tc approved, i will push that. | 20:59 |
| russellb | well ... before we do graduation review? | 20:59 |
| mikal | What happens in the ironic case if they fall out of the hypervisor support matrix and get deprecated? | 20:59 |
| ttx | jeblair: ack | 20:59 |
| annegentle | ttx: how much of a requirement is it for a project considering incubation to have a program decided upon? Is that a hard requirement for a review? | 20:59 |
| mikal | Does that imply unintegrating ironic? | 20:59 |
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| NobodyCam | Thank you | 21:00 |
| mikal | Cause that ties the nova team's hands on driver quality... | 21:00 |
| markmc | russellb, more about freeze date for the driver, what you need to deprecate the old baremetal stuff in this release | 21:00 |
| ttx | annegentle: an incubated project needs to be covered by a program yes, it's one of the requirements | 21:00 |
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| ttx | annegentle: if none existing, would create a new one | 21:00 |
| jeblair | mikal: i don't believe ironic is integrated; it is in incubation. | 21:00 |
| markmc | russellb, perhaps it's obvious, but no harm in spelling it out - I think there's confusion | 21:00 |
| annegentle | ttx: but if they are not sure which to apply under, can that be part of the discussion? | 21:00 |
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| annegentle | ttx: ok that's helpful too | 21:00 |
| mikal | jeblair: usre, this is a future thing | 21:00 |
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| russellb | markmc: i guess i've largely been relying on the ironic folks on this | 21:01 |
| ttx | annegentle: we just make the team official, basically. | 21:01 |
| annegentle | ttx: just wasn't sure if it's a push or pull (programs recruiting vs. projects looking for a home) | 21:01 |
| ttx | ok, no time left | 21:01 |
| lifeless | both ? | 21:01 |
| mikal | Thanks peoples | 21:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 21:01:23 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-11-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-11-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-11-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
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| ttx | tight as always | 21:01 |
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| * dhellmann gets back in line to ride again | 21:01 | |
| ttx | long gone are the days where we had a TC meeting every 3 weeks | 21:01 |
| ttx | ok, next up | 21:02 |
| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: around ? | 21:02 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, wheeeeeee meeting ride line starts here? | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| russellb | o/ | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:02 |
| markwash | o/ | 21:02 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: you can cut in front of me | 21:02 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, o/ standingin for dolphm is he isn't here | 21:02 |
| NobodyCam | 0/ | 21:02 |
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| notmyname | here | 21:02 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: cool | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Feb 11 21:02:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:02 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:02 |
| ttx | Should be a short one | 21:02 |
| ttx | (famous last words) | 21:02 |
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| markwash | I object! | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic icehouse-3 progress | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-3 progress (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
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| ttx | Falling slightly behind, not enough stuff gets final reviews and gets "implemented" | 21:03 |
| ttx | We need to get as much stuff in this week as possible. next week we have the feature proposal freeze | 21:03 |
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| ttx | So a lot of new reviews will end up being posted. better get what is ready in now. | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic 2013.2.2 stable release | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "2013.2.2 stable release (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | apevec: around ? | 21:03 |
| lifeless | ttx: uhm, isn't that exactly the batching we're trying to avoid by the freezes ? | 21:04 |
| apevec | yep | 21:04 |
| lifeless | ttx: so you're encouraging that which we don't want? :) | 21:04 |
| apevec | ttx, so first I want to hear from folks what they think about stable/havana gate is it ok? | 21:04 |
| ttx | lifeless: i'm encouraging pushing code in this week, rather than next week :) | 21:04 |
| lifeless | ttx: still, long way off steady-state smooth progress :( | 21:04 |
| sdague | apevec: what's the neutron job fail rate there? | 21:04 |
| sdague | I thought I saw a lot of jobs failing on it | 21:05 |
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| apevec | afaict it's good enough, only known waiting for ...thing and ssh timeouts popped up during last few recheks | 21:05 |
| apevec | all known on master too | 21:05 |
| apevec | also nw_info cache | 21:05 |
| apevec | all sporadic, I got exceptions merged today | 21:05 |
| apevec | re. execptions I've only keystone one left: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/Ida39b4699ed6c568609a5121573fc3be5c4ab2f4,n,z | 21:06 |
| apevec | morganfainberg, ^^^ | 21:06 |
| apevec | will that be able to merge today? | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | apevec, trying to get the master one finalized | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | apevec, i hope so | 21:06 |
| apevec | afaict it's still waiting on master reviews? | 21:06 |
| apevec | morganfainberg, ok thanks | 21:06 |
| markmcclain | apevec: I neutron havana is back to the normal for stable | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | apevec, yes, i will chase keystone folks down after this and get it done today | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | apevec, so we can have stable one in sync w/ what goes into master | 21:06 |
| hub_cap | here | 21:07 |
| apevec | morganfainberg, excellent! | 21:07 |
| apevec | I hope we don't have any more exception requests? | 21:07 |
| apevec | there were few proposed, but I think all remaining can wait .3 | 21:07 |
| ttx | apevec: what about that grenade stable/havana upgrade-horizon thing ? Do you need it in, or can it wait ? | 21:07 |
| apevec | ttx, looks like we somehow are passing w/o it | 21:08 |
| ttx | apevec: we can't +2 it apparently so... good news | 21:08 |
| apevec | dunno, need s/b who knows grenade to look why :) | 21:08 |
| ttx | apevec: no securty fix lined up except that glance one you approved recently | 21:08 |
| apevec | if no more exception, I'm good to release on Thu | 21:08 |
| apevec | yep, public one for glance is merged | 21:09 |
| sdague | apevec: so that issue was always transient in grenade, so I'm not sure missing upgrade-horizon was actually the issue | 21:09 |
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| apevec | sdague, so root cause is unclear? | 21:09 |
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| sdague | yes | 21:10 |
| apevec | ok, we can continue discussion in review or stable-maint if anyone wishes | 21:10 |
| apevec | ttx, that's it from me unless there are questions? | 21:10 |
| * ttx lags badly | 21:11 | |
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| apevec | who is real ttx now? | 21:12 |
| ttx_ | there is lagged_ttx and unlagged_ttx_ | 21:12 |
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| ttx_ | apevec: all set ? | 21:13 |
| apevec | yep | 21:13 |
| ttx_ | cool. | 21:13 |
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| ttx | #topic Migration out of LP Answers to Ask | 21:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Migration out of LP Answers to Ask (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:13 | |
| ttx | is reed around ? | 21:13 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx_, I read it first as "tagged ttx" and "untagged ttx" | 21:13 |
| * SergeyLukjanov needs more coffee | 21:13 | |
| ttx | probably not, i'll proxy him | 21:14 |
| ttx | LP answers are ready to be migrated to Ask: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026563.html | 21:14 |
| stevebaker | can LP Answers be switched off? | 21:14 |
| dhellmann | that's the plan, right? | 21:14 |
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| ttx | stevebaker: I think so yes | 21:15 |
| stevebaker | +1 then | 21:15 |
| jeblair | i think doing so might hide the old answers, which is why it hasn't been done yet | 21:15 |
| hub_cap | horray :) | 21:15 |
| ttx | stevebaker: you just end up losing access to questions I think, which is why we wanted migration first | 21:15 |
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| dhellmann | jeblair: yes, that's my understanding, too | 21:15 |
| ttx | "Any PTL opposing it? Is @reed authorized to reconfigure LP projects to point to Ask for support?" | 21:15 |
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| ttx | I think we are all set and reed can flip the switch | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | +1 | 21:16 |
| ttx | I saw notmyname blessing the switch too, and I know swift was the project that made the most use of LP answers as a knowledge base tool | 21:16 |
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| ttx | so we are a go, I guess | 21:16 |
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| annegentle | congrats on the migration! Good work. | 21:17 |
| ttx | #info reed can migrate answers and reconfigure LP projects to point to Ask for support | 21:17 |
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| ttx | #topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints | 21:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:17 | |
| ttx | Any inter-project blocked work that this meeting could help unblock ? | 21:18 |
| ttx | tryin to avoid last-minute surprises, like projects depending on some other project work that will never happen | 21:18 |
| ttx | (that happened before) | 21:18 |
| ttx | or is everyone totally unblocked ? | 21:19 |
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| ttx | I guess everyone is | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Incubated projects | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:20 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:20 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 21:20 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov, NobodyCam, flaper87: o/ | 21:20 |
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| ttx | let's do savanna first | 21:20 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, https://launchpad.net/savanna/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:20 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: at first glance that looks a bit behind | 21:21 |
| ttx | also your targeted bug list could use more assignees | 21:21 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, probably, have several large patch packs on review | 21:21 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, will clean it up again | 21:21 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: ack | 21:21 |
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| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: do you have any work to complete before graduation review ? | 21:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I think everythng is done | 21:22 |
| SergeyLukjanov | we're working on renaming, but it looks like it's not a requirement | 21:22 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: ok, cool | 21:22 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: yeah, it's more of a "less pain to do it early" thing | 21:23 |
| ttx | flaper87: o/ | 21:23 |
| flaper87 | ttx: o/ | 21:23 |
| flaper87 | ttx: https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:23 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, I'll re-iterate over the list of requirements tomorrow and send the follow-up to tc ml | 21:23 |
| ttx | flaper87: you should probably have assignees for every blueprint at this point | 21:23 |
| flaper87 | sooo, it may seem we're way behind, truth is that some of those are likely to be re-targeted | 21:23 |
| ttx | SergeyLukjanov: +1 | 21:23 |
| flaper87 | ttx: correct, we've been working on that, still some work left though | 21:24 |
| ttx | flaper87: the "essential" stuff is the graduation stuff, right ? | 21:24 |
| flaper87 | ttx: exactly | 21:24 |
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| flaper87 | our main focus is on the sqlalchemy backend and enabling marconi's gate | 21:24 |
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| flaper87 | that's in a way better shape that it was lsat week, TBH | 21:24 |
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| kgriffs | the v1.1 api stuff is the most likely to get retargeted, fwiw | 21:25 |
| ttx | kgriffs: yeah, focus on the essential bits at this point | 21:25 |
| ttx | so probably time to cut in the objectives | 21:25 |
| ttx | NobodyCam / devananda ? | 21:26 |
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| NobodyCam | o/ | 21:26 |
| ttx | NobodyCam: https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/icehouse-3 | 21:26 |
| * devananda is lurking, but groggy post-dentist appt | 21:26 | |
| ttx | NobodyCam: is all the stuff needed for graduation marked "essential" there ? | 21:27 |
| NobodyCam | nova drivr is not there | 21:27 |
| devananda | ttx: quick question regarding https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/2/reference/incubation-integration-requirements | 21:28 |
| NobodyCam | also add Neutron support so that Ironic can appropriately forward DHCP BOOT requests has landed | 21:28 |
| ttx | NobodyCam: feel free to update status | 21:28 |
| NobodyCam | so that need to be updated | 21:28 |
| ttx | you look in good shape overall | 21:28 |
| NobodyCam | ya | 21:28 |
| ttx | targeted bugs could use more assignees, but overall looks good | 21:28 |
| ttx | devananda: ask | 21:28 |
| devananda | ttx: our migration-from-nova tool is not there, and teh new nova-ironic driver is coming along, but we don't control when it lands (in nova) | 21:28 |
| devananda | ttx: are those pre-graduation conditions, or post-graduation part of "integrate with all the other projects in Juno" things? | 21:29 |
| ttx | devananda: I think russellb just said pre-grad, but I think for pre-grad i would ask that the code exists as a separate driver | 21:29 |
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| ttx | devananda: with the task of getting it in nova mainline as an early post-grad, integration task | 21:30 |
| devananda | k, that should be fine | 21:30 |
| * ttx reads TC scrollback | 21:30 | |
| devananda | yea, i need to go read the minutes -- been out of it all morning :( | 21:31 |
| russellb | basically, check out the proposed change for the governance repo related to deprecated code | 21:31 |
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| russellb | and then let me know what questions remain | 21:31 |
| russellb | so i can help clarify my view | 21:32 |
| russellb | i think code should be in nova mainline pre-grad | 21:32 |
| russellb | and a written migration plan | 21:32 |
| NobodyCam | thank you russellb :) | 21:32 |
| devananda | russellb: ok, so landing the ironic driver pre-grad | 21:33 |
| russellb | yes | 21:33 |
| dhellmann | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/ | 21:33 |
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| ttx | russellb: it's a bit of chicken-and-egg though. You don't have the incentive to approve their code until they are integrated | 21:33 |
| devananda | right | 21:33 |
| devananda | our deprecate-baremetal BP is marked "Low" | 21:33 |
| devananda | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deprecate-baremetal-driver | 21:33 |
| russellb | ttx: i think we don't have incentive to review it, there's a bigger problem | 21:33 |
| ttx | russellb: fair | 21:34 |
| russellb | timing is rough right now | 21:34 |
| russellb | end of cycle overload | 21:34 |
| russellb | but we should prioritize it | 21:34 |
| ttx | russellb: so you'd have a driver in icehouse release for a not-yet-integrated project | 21:34 |
| devananda | also, AIUI, the first cycle post-graduation is when the other integrated projects aer suppored to integraete back with the new projects | 21:34 |
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| russellb | ttx: yes | 21:34 |
| ttx | russellb: ok | 21:34 |
| devananda | so that seems like the right time for eg. Nova to work with us on that patchset | 21:34 |
| russellb | ttx: but i think we do project integrations during incubation elsewhere right? | 21:35 |
| devananda | we're lookign at ceilometer integration in juno for that very reason | 21:35 |
| ttx | russellb: sounds like something we could grant a FFe for though. Sufficiently self-contained ? | 21:35 |
| russellb | that's the "focus on integratoin" period | 21:35 |
| russellb | ttx: yes | 21:35 |
| russellb | assuming it's self contained | 21:35 |
| ttx | russellb: especially if it didn't go in for review bandwidth reasons | 21:35 |
| devananda | russellb: right. so why require nova to integrate with ironic pre-graduation? | 21:35 |
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| russellb | because i think graduation is the critical checkpoint | 21:36 |
| russellb | and we have to be *sure* that it's ready | 21:36 |
| russellb | and ready == merged | 21:36 |
| russellb | IMO | 21:36 |
| ttx | devananda: basically, you move functionality around, and that adds additional contraints, linked to deprecation | 21:37 |
| ttx | devananda: while integration with ceilo or horizon is just additional feature | 21:37 |
| NobodyCam | but if we arn't getting input on the reviews how can we land in time | 21:37 |
| russellb | related ... neutron was integrated with the assumption we were almost ready to deprecate nova-network | 21:37 |
| russellb | several releases later ... | 21:37 |
| russellb | we screwed up. | 21:37 |
| russellb | we can't let that happen again | 21:37 |
| russellb | that's why i feel strongly about this | 21:37 |
| devananda | russellb: that's fair | 21:37 |
| ttx | NobodyCam: well, you need nova coorperation to move functionality out of nova, that's for sure | 21:37 |
| ttx | NobodyCam: so it's great you raised that issue here | 21:38 |
| ttx | to make sure we are aligned, at release level, on the priority for this | 21:38 |
| devananda | russellb: so given we're half way through I3, the ironic code sprint is at the end of I3 and that's probably when we'll make the most significant progress on the nova driver | 21:38 |
| russellb | sounds like FFE is most likely path then | 21:39 |
| devananda | russellb: if being a bullet proof replacement for baremetal driver is essential to graduation | 21:39 |
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| devananda | and having a migration tool os also a req | 21:39 |
| devananda | then yea, either FFE or we won' make it in Icehouse | 21:39 |
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| ttx | devananda: i suspect making it better than the current nova-bm driver is not really the same as making it "bulletproof" though | 21:40 |
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| devananda | ttx: bm driver has ~1yr of bug fixes from production use | 21:40 |
| russellb | that's the risk of starting over | 21:40 |
| russellb | it's not a quick process | 21:40 |
| devananda | ironic has incorporated some of those, but will certainly have new bugs | 21:41 |
| russellb | can't call it done until it's done :) | 21:41 |
| ttx | devananda: ah. last I heard from it it was unusable. How time flies | 21:41 |
| devananda | right :) | 21:41 |
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| devananda | ttx: heh. lifeless could probably tell you just how usable it is ;) | 21:41 |
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| ttx | devananda: make sure the driver is self-contained, so that adding it post-FF is not a dnager to anything else | 21:42 |
| ttx | danger* | 21:42 |
| devananda | ack | 21:42 |
| devananda | there are related changes that we're doing now | 21:42 |
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| devananda | small things | 21:42 |
| devananda | like moving bits of libvirt code that we need into a common area | 21:42 |
| devananda | so we dont reach into nova.drivers.libvirt :) | 21:42 |
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| devananda | and adding a new HostManager | 21:42 |
| ttx | devananda: ok | 21:43 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:43 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:43 | |
| ttx | anything else, anyone ? | 21:43 |
| NobodyCam | Ty all! | 21:43 |
| ttx | yay, early meeting finish | 21:44 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:44 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Feb 11 21:44:11 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:44 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-11-21.02.html | 21:44 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-11-21.02.txt | 21:44 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-11-21.02.log.html | 21:44 |
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