Tuesday, 2014-02-11

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sc68calGood morning, good afternoon, good evening :)13:55
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sc68calwho's all here for the ipv6 meeting?13:59
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haleyblurking :)14:01
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sc68cal#startmeeting neutron_ipv614:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 11 14:01:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6'14:01
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sc68calHello everyone14:01
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sc68cal#topic recap previous meeting14:02
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sc68cal#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-04-13.59.html Previous meeting log14:03
sc68calSo last week, I had two items, post to the ML about our devstack config14:03
sc68caland edit the horizon blueprint14:03
sc68calThankfully, someone else has taken up the horizon BP - so I'm not a SPOF on that14:04
sc68caland I did post our devstack config to the mailing list14:04
sc68calaveiga: you had an item to post to the ML, and I saw it yesterday yes?14:05
aveiga#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026792.html ML discussion about modes and validation14:05
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sc68cal#topic blueprints14:05
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sc68calLooks like we've got some good discussion about that on the ML - saw a couple e-mails this morning14:06
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sc68calDo we have any blueprints, or any questions about the validation?14:07
shshangnot so far14:07
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xuhanpwe need new blueprints for the validation?14:08
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aveigaI don't think that warrants a new BP14:09
aveigashould be part and parcel of the API14:09
sc68calif you guys just give me clear direction on what combos to reject, I can add it to the API validation method14:09
sc68calas xuhanp commented in the review14:09
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sc68calIf there isn't anything else, I'll turn it over to open discussion14:10
aveigasc68cal: I brought up in the ML discussion that I think the only truly invalid combos are when the RA and addr modes conflict14:10
aveigaexample, one is set to slaac while the other is set to stateful or something14:11
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aveigabut we should give it a day or two for the ML to look at it14:11
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aveigasince this was (my apologies) only a recent discussion14:11
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sc68calOK. Can the check simply be if ra_mode != address_mode -> validation error?14:12
sc68calor is stateful + stateless a valid combo14:12
aveigabecause mode/off are valid14:12
aveigaaddr = stateful, ra = off for example14:13
sc68calgotcha. OK, I'll eyeball shshang 's pdf and build a table of good/bad values14:13
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shshangthanks, sc68cal!14:13
aveigaon the subjeft of the pdf, does the BP whiteboard support tables?14:13
xuhanpstateless and slaac is also valid14:14
aveigaI'd like to convert the PDF to something a bit less dependant on outside systems14:14
shshangit doesn't seem like. I tried it, but I cannot insert table14:14
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sc68calWe have a big wiki space on Openstack14:14
aveigaI'll try adding it to the wiki14:14
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shshangthat may be the way to go14:14
aveigaxuhanp: I'm worried about that combo14:14
sc68cal#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/IPv6 IPv6 Wiki14:14
aveigatechnically, yes it's possible and it will work14:15
aveigabut you'll never initiate the stateless transaction without the O bit set14:15
sc68calI believe the wiki supports tables :)14:15
xuhanpI may need to revisit the RFC to find out the details14:15
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aveigaxuhanp: the crux is that setting ra mode to slaac would be A=on, O/M=off14:16
aveigastateless mode would be A/O=on, M=off14:17
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xuhanpoh, I see. So stateless by dnsmasq mean external router need to set O=on14:19
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aveigaxuhanp: yeah, the RA needs the O bit set14:19
aveigawherever it comes from14:19
xuhanpso why in the table, stateless and stateless is valid?14:20
aveiga it should be14:21
aveigastateless RA sets A and O14:21
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aveigastateless addr means auto-calculate the SLAAC address, but also have dnsmasq server up DNS and other options14:21
xuhanpOh. Right. I see :-)14:21
xuhanpit just get confusing each time I look back at the two modes :)14:22
xuhanpthanks for the explanation14:22
aveigaso if the addr mode and the RA mode are the same, it's always valid14:23
aveigaif either mode is off, it's also always valid14:23
aveigaBUT, if both are on but not the same, I think those are the only real invalid modes14:23
aveigaalthough technically ra slaac and addr stateless is functional, it just would never use the dhcp server that we'd run for no reason :-P14:25
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sc68calany other blueprint stuff - otherwise I'll go to open discussion14:27
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xuhanpI wonder how is it going with shshang's part14:27
xuhanpseems still a lot of work to do14:28
shshangxuhanp, any specific subjects?14:28
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xuhanpno. Just wondering about your submitted change14:28
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xuhanpseems like you changed a lot of code14:28
shshangyes, indeed14:29
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shshangI saw your comments yesterday and i will clarify it14:29
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shshangbut thanks for providing the comments14:29
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xuhanpno problem14:30
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baoliI have a question, if both modes are off (as indicated in the first two rows in shshang's table), Is the CIDR still required while creating the ipv6 subnet?14:30
shshangIf you think I overlooked anything, shoot me an email14:30
absubramhi.. sorry just catching up on comments form earlier in the meeting.. so not all combinations of ra and address are valid huh?14:30
aveigabaoli: I think it should be14:30
aveigaabsubram: nope14:31
baoliaveiga, can you explain why?14:31
sc68calabsubram: the API will return you an error if you pick a bad combo, if you're worried about the horizon bp14:31
aveigabecause if you're creating a subnet anyway, you intend to use it14:31
aveigaotherwise why create it?14:31
absubramsc68cal: thanks! that was going to be next Q :)14:31
aveigato points being made on the ML about multiple connections to the same subnet, this would deter that14:32
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aveigaor at leawst make it follow the validation bounds if they change them for SRIOV14:32
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absubramsc68cal: how are things looking on the neutron side though? see the review is still in progress?14:32
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sc68calabsubram: they are in progress - how are things on the horizon side?14:33
baoliaveiga, in that case, would the user simply say enable IPv6 on my network?14:33
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aveigayes, because creating the subnet would allow for an RA to be issued from an outside source14:33
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aveigaperhaps a further refinement down the road would be for FWaaS to validate that the RA is on the right network or drop it14:34
absubramsc68cal: well I've updated the BP.. we have our weekly irc in a couple hours so will bring this up then.. let's see.. I think the only concern will be that we need to get this in after the neutron review is approved14:34
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aveigaso I think we should require a scope to be added for other systems to be able to do validation14:34
aveigaeven if we aren't using them yet14:34
shshangabsubram, thanks a bunch for taking care of horizon piece.14:35
shshangany risk the BP may not get in on time?14:35
sc68calabsubram: Agreed- but you can still start the work. I don't remember off the top of my head if undefined attributes are silently discarded or an error is raised14:35
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absubramsc68cal: I was also wondering.. if I did have some code ready for testing.. would one of you be able to test it just to ensure no functionality is missing? I can do some basic testing using the review diffs14:36
shshangabsubram, I would love to help14:36
sc68calabsubram: yes, just pull down my review into your neutron repo for devstack14:36
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absubramshshang: thanks! will keep you guys updated14:36
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shshangabsubram, please send email to the ML when your code is ready, and we can all test it14:37
aveigabaoli: does that make sense to you?14:37
xuhanpaveiga, I wonder if today's neutron code allow create subnet without any IP specified?14:37
shshangI know I will.14:37
aveigaI don't want to go spouting off14:37
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aveigaxuhanp: good question, I haven't validated14:37
absubramshshang: will do14:37
shshangxuhanp, I think CIDR part is mandatory14:37
sc68calxuhanp: I don't think so14:37
xuhanpI can do a quick check tomorrow.14:37
sc68cal+1 - I think CIDR is mandatory14:37
sc68caland I think ip version14:38
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aveigaso we should follow along with parity there, since anything developed against neutron subnets will rely on it being there by assumption14:38
baoliaveiga, I need to think about it.14:38
aveigado you have a use case in mind?14:39
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xuhanpso what can we input for the CIDR if we want SLAAC IP address work with outside RA14:39
baoliAveiga, I'm just thinking about the external router and service VM, etc.14:39
sc68calxuhanp: The correct CIDR14:39
aveigasc68cal: +114:40
sc68calwe have that patch that will calculate EUI64 addresses14:40
aveigabaoli: it would be fine14:40
sc68calso neutron will agree with the network14:40
aveigayou should just provide the addressing14:40
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aveigameaning neutron should match what you'll be configuring with the external router14:40
xuhanpstill a little confuse. so neutron calculate EUI64 address, but that's after the subnet create is called, right?14:41
sc68calxuhanp: yes14:41
sc68calit's when a port is created from the subnet that the EUI64 address is calculated14:42
baoliAveiga, think about ipv6 prefix delegation. Would it be known beforehand the prefix for a subnet?14:42
sc68calfor that port14:42
aveigabaoli: nope, but your device could create the subnet in neutron from the delegated prefix14:42
aveigaafter all, until it's delegated, you have no network?14:42
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xuhanpyes. so from the user perspective, they need to input the right prefix align with RA from external?14:43
xuhanpor the address in DB and in VM will mismatch, right?14:43
shshangxuhanp, yes14:44
aveigaxuhanp: it's worse than that14:44
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aveigaif someone sets up rules further on that validate RAs to be for the local network, it will fail14:44
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shshangalso the iptable rule will block the traffic too14:46
aveigashshang: I think the iptables rules are port specific, except forr the RA source rules which are based on single addresses14:46
shshangthat is correct. If the CIDR you configure is different from the real one, the iptable rule won't allow traffic in or out14:47
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baoliok, so it's about the iptable rules that have to be set based on the CIDR14:47
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aveigabaoli: it's more than just the iptables rules14:47
aveigait's what neutron has to provide to other sources14:47
aveigaI think the answer to the PD question for now, is to crete the subnet after delegation occurs14:48
aveigauntil we can get some work done to properly handle PD14:48
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sc68cal+1 - eventually we'll add support for PD so openstack does it all by itself14:49
sc68calit may need to be an API extension however14:49
sc68calunless I can convince them to crowbar just one more itsy bitsy change into the API ;)14:49
aveigaPD support is a lot of work14:49
aveigasince it makes the neutron network a client at that point14:50
sc68caltrue - but Neutron was happy to be told a CIDR and when you switch off enable_dhcp it behaves nicely14:50
sc68calthen with the EUI64 it'd match up14:50
baoliAveiga, I will take a close look at it from neutron side.14:51
aveigabaoli: bring it up on the ML when you find something14:51
baoliaveiga, sure thing14:51
aveigaI'd like to make sure we cover everyone's needs14:51
aveigasc68cal: sort of, but neutron would have to actually run a dhcpv6 client14:51
aveigafor pd to work14:51
sc68calaveiga: That's fine, that could be an async operation14:52
aveigaI think that's a chat for after we've got more basic support in and workign14:52
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sc68caljust create a new subnet and specify PD14:52
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sc68calwe'd need to relax the cidr requirement, but that's OK14:53
sc68calif we made it an API extension, we'd actually not need to muck with that14:53
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sc68caljust do a request to the API extension, and it'd go create a new subnet with the PD14:53
aveigaI'd go the other way, because the router would have to request the prefix14:53
aveigaso it would just create the subnet on the fly14:53
aveigabut again, that's a discussion for later14:54
sc68calright - obviously some RPC work to make it all communicate correctly14:54
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aveigain any case, not yet relevant14:54
shshangI have a quick question about code submission14:55
shshangcan anybody help me how to write testing code?14:55
shshangI saw test.py in other code review, but not sure what it is for and how to build it.14:55
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xuhanpsince we only have several minutes, I also want to mention that I submitted code for RA security group. Will be great if you can take a look.14:57
xuhanpthanks sc68cal for your review14:57
sc68calNo problem, you did a great job14:57
xuhanpshshang, sorry for the interrupt14:57
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sc68calhopefully my code was at least helpful14:57
sc68calshshang: If you look in the neutron/tests/unit directory there are unit tests for the DHCP server there14:58
xuhanpit was very helpful, sc68cal14:58
xuhanpand aveiga's talk with me was too14:58
sc68calshshang: Take a look at the console log from jenkins, find the unit tests that failed, and fix them up. Are you familiar with Mock?14:58
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aveigaglad to help14:58
shshangno, not at all14:58
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shshanglet me take a look at the tests/unit directory and I will send my questions to you, sc68cal?14:59
sc68calyeah let's talk via e-mail and set up a pair programming time14:59
shshangsure, that will do. Thanks, sc68cal!15:00
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sc68calif anyone else wants to join in, let me know - trying to do some dev doc for Neutron15:00
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sc68calneutron is kind of a beast to learn15:00
dane_I might be able to help... this is for adding unit test cases?15:00
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sc68calAlright - well until next time! Thanks everyone15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:01
dane_Send me an e-mail15:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 11 15:01:11 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.html15:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.txt15:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-11-14.01.log.html15:01
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shshang@dane_, what is your email address?15:01
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shshang@dane_, I am ex-Cisco too! :D15:01
dane_small world!15:02
shshang@dane_, I am RTP based. You?15:02
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shshang@dane_, I see. You are part of CTO?15:03
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dane_Yes... Lew Tucker's group15:04
shshang:D Cool! Nice to meet with you, and thank you for your help!15:05
dane_Sure, I'll try. :o)15:05
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shshangI am pretty sure you know much more than me, I am still new to this code review thing....Errr....15:06
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boris-42_#startmeeting Rally17:01
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openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 11 17:01:21 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:01
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dkranzboris-42_: hi17:01
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boris-42_hughsaunders jorisroovers rediskin  tzabal akscram stannie miarmak meeting17:02
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov as well meeting time17:02
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tnurlygayanov_yes, I'm here )17:03
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* boris-42_ typing todays topics17:03
hughsaundershi all17:03
tnurlygayanov_The document with idea was updated: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1bYdiFiIXKOR2OHeGq2fCm1956CTQVCY-BEZc-irmcxw/edit?usp=sharing17:04
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov order pls=)17:04
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov this is weekly meeting about all that happened with Rally and will happen=)17:04
boris-42_1. Atomic actions17:05
boris-42_2. Scenarion runner refactoring17:05
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boris-42_3. Rally & Tempest intgeration17:05
boris-42_4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine17:05
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boris-42_5. Updates about fixing couple of painful bugs17:06
boris-42_6. Updates in rally.conf17:06
dkranzboris-42_: I don't have this wholel hour free so can you tell me when you want to discuss the tempest thing?17:06
boris-42_dkranz yep I will just ping you=)17:06
dkranzboris-42_: But I have to be away part of the time. How about half-past?17:07
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boris-42_okay try to make it happen=)17:07
dkranzboris-42_: or just ping me and I'll be back soon17:07
boris-42_7. VM benchmarks17:08
boris-42_so let's start17:08
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boris-42_#topic 1. Atomic actions17:08
*** openstack changes topic to "1. Atomic actions (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:08
boris-42_Just short update that this work was finished17:08
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boris-42_by this patch ^17:08
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hughsaundersgreat patch :)17:09
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boris-42_So now we are able to measure times of atomic actions, e.g. booting VM/deleting VM/snapshoting it and so on17:09
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boris-42_hughsaunders yep great one=)17:09
boris-42_#topic 2. Scenarion runner refactoring17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "2. Scenarion runner refactoring (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:09
rediskinit not quite atomic =)17:09
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boris-42_rediskin gg17:09
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boris-42_so we done a lot of work around refactoring our scenario runner17:10
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boris-42_First of all we improved generic cleanup and creation of users17:10
boris-42_now we are using context so cleanup is proceed always17:10
boris-42_and as well we removed spaghetti from code17:11
boris-42_Second thing is that now we are able to make plugins17:11
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boris-42_to generate different load17:11
tnurlygayanov_do we have example?17:11
boris-42_rediskin https://github.com/stackforge/rally/tree/master/rally/benchmark/runners17:11
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boris-42_rediskin yep just add new your_load_generator.py17:12
rediskinyea, it is easy to write own runner17:12
boris-42_There are couple of things that should be also refactored17:12
hughsaundersahh, but not really a plugin, as it has to be in-tree?17:12
boris-42_hughsaunders nope17:12
boris-42_hughsaunders Olga is working around plugin17:12
boris-42_hughsaunders system17:12
boris-42_hughsaunders for engines/serverprovider/benchmarks/loaders17:13
rediskin^^ load extra modules17:13
boris-42_yep that one17:13
hughsaunderscould use entrypoints for that?17:13
boris-42_hughsaunders actually we are going to use rally.conf17:13
boris-42_hughsaunders I don't like steavedoor..17:14
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boris-42_but unfortunately Olga chose wrong place17:14
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boris-42_to put initialization17:15
boris-42_so the idea is that we have some place17:15
boris-42_in code17:15
boris-42_that will just load external modules17:15
boris-42_and our factories approach will fetch them=)17:15
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boris-42_so next thing that we are going to refactor is this place17:16
boris-42_^ we should put here validation of benchmarks inputs17:16
boris-42_i mean image_id/flavor_id and so on17:16
boris-42_And thing that is Mike working now17:17
boris-42_Support of procreated users17:17
boris-42_Btw should we discuss it?)17:17
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boris-42_#topic Support of benchmarking with procreated users17:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Support of benchmarking with procreated users (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:18
rediskinhow about to create clients-container class17:18
rediskinmake this object oriented17:19
boris-42_but it actually endpoint17:19
rediskindo not use all this dicrionaries and diffrerent clients laying around17:19
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rediskinit endpoint, but client = make_client(endpoint['username'], endpoint['password']...17:20
rediskineverywhere in the code crap like this ^^17:20
boris-42_rediskin actually you are speaking about legacy code17:20
boris-42_rediskin until we add endpoint object17:20
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boris-42_rediskin so this part is just not refactored17:20
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boris-42_I will share with my thoughs17:21
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boris-42_https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/osclients.py#L38-L40 this should accept only object endpoint17:21
boris-42_and here return it https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/osclients.py#L13917:22
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boris-42_this things should be removed https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/runner.py#L33-L3617:22
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boris-42_^ they are legacy code =(17:22
boris-42_we should pass here https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/runner.py#L3917:23
rediskinboris-42_: ok. I'm so looking forward for this refactoring =)17:23
boris-42_rediskin so we will refactor it step by step17:23
boris-42_rediskin it is hard to make all in one step17:23
boris-42_rediskin so we are refactoring it step by step17:23
boris-42_And I think that we made already big success17:24
rediskinobjects Endpoints and Client might be done first17:24
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boris-42_rediskin I think that it could be done separately17:24
rediskinboris-42_: just IMHO17:24
boris-42_rediskin ok =)17:24
boris-42_does anybody have something to say?)17:24
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boris-42_#4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine17:25
boris-42_#topic 4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine17:25
*** openstack changes topic to "4. Multi node deployment & LXC engine (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:25
boris-42_lets discuss this before tempest stuff17:26
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boris-42_hughsaunders rediskin  could you share with updates17:26
rediskinI thought it's done, but hughsaunders told it is not17:26
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rediskinstill some issues. need more tesing.17:26
rediskinactually it all works for me17:27
boris-42_hughsaunders does it works for you?)17:27
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boris-42_seems like hughsaunders  is not here..=017:28
rediskinhe showd me traceback, but it it not enough. need -d -v options on17:28
rediskinanyway there is not much to do17:29
boris-42_okay so I hope we will get it soon merged17:29
boris-42_#topic 3. Rally & Tempest intgeration17:29
*** openstack changes topic to "3. Rally & Tempest intgeration (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:29
boris-42_dkranz around?)17:29
dkranzboris-42_: Yes17:29
boris-42_miarmak could you share with your updates17:29
hughsaundersboris-42_: I have not been able to get lxc or multinode to work yet17:30
miarmakpatch is ready to review)17:30
rediskinmiarmak: all tests done?17:30
boris-42_miarmak ggg17:30
miarmakrediskin: yes17:30
boris-42_miarmak could you share in more words17:30
boris-42_miarmak what your patch makes17:30
hughsaundersbut I'm pretty much of the problem is me failing to configure correctly17:30
miarmakyoday i have finished17:30
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miarmakit adds 2 cli commands: rally-manage tempest install to install the Tempest17:31
miarmakand 'rally verify start'17:31
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miarmakto start verifiing process17:31
miarmakwe can use it with specificated deploy-id17:32
miarmakor with default deploy id17:32
boris-42_miarmak so and it works with default deployed cloud with devstack?17:32
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rediskinboris-42_: on devstack almost all tests passed =)17:33
hughsaundersbrilliant :)17:33
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miarmakbut for now it starts smoke tests17:33
miarmakto simplifu first steps)17:33
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miarmakall tests pass very long)17:34
dkranzmiarmak: So devstack is presumably not the real target for rally17:34
dkranzmiarmak: I made a comment in the review of how I think this really needs to work17:34
boris-42_dkranz we agree with you17:34
rediskinI gonna test it on cloud deployed bu fuel17:34
boris-42_dkranz but step by step17:34
dkranzboris-42_: Of course17:34
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boris-42_dkranz we would like to get now base in17:34
dkranzboris-42_: I am not going to -1 :)17:35
boris-42_dkranz so we will be able to simultaneously work on different steps17:35
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boris-42_dkranz e.g. sets of tests/ storing results/ better config generation17:35
dkranzboris-42_: I just thought it would be helpful to understand what is important and missing17:35
miarmakdkranz: yeah, thanks)17:35
boris-42_dkranz so let me try to describe what we are going to do and why=)17:35
dkranzboris-42_: Because devstack is doing stuff that really needs to be in the configure tempest part for real cloud17:35
boris-42_dkranz we would like to use Rally against different cloud17:36
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boris-42_dkranz with fake virtualization, or real big deployments, or private clouds17:36
boris-42_dkranz clouds that are deployed for developers with Rally17:36
dkranzI get that17:36
boris-42_dkranz so we need mechanism that will understand17:36
boris-42_dkranz what we have in cloud17:36
boris-42_dkranz and what tests we can actually run17:37
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boris-42_dkranz so after we merge this patch one of direction will be this17:37
boris-42_dkranz when we finish this work17:37
boris-42_dkranz we will move this stuff to tempest17:37
dkranzboris-42_: Please let me know if you disagree with anything in my comment17:37
boris-42_dkranz I mean smart generation of tempest conf17:38
boris-42_dkranz even more if you could help us with this work, it will be nice17:38
boris-42_dkranz because we don't have enough developers to cover all things… It takes a lot of time to make things simple=)17:38
dkranzboris-42_: Yes, but what I was saying is that in order to do smart generation of tempest.conf you also have to create stuff that is expected, and is created by devstack17:38
boris-42_dkranz as a first step pre_creation of things could be done by hand17:39
dkranzboris-42_: I know and hope we can help. But it will be easier if the initial version submitted to tempest has the form of what I described17:39
boris-42_dkranz and passed as extra data17:39
dkranzboris-42_: It does not have to be complete.17:39
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boris-42_dkranz so what's my idea is to split this work17:40
dkranzboris-42_: Once an initial version is submitted to tempest I am sure other people will contribute17:40
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boris-42_dkranz so you would like to start work inside tempest?17:41
boris-42_dkranz I am woried a bit the speed of accepting pathces in tempest is less then in Rally… cause it is not top priority17:41
dkranzboris-42_: It might be some one else17:41
dkranzboris-42_: I can promise this will get high attention17:42
dkranzboris-42_: But I do understand your concern17:42
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dkranzboris-42_: I know there is a lot of interest and this will be reviewed quickly in tempest17:42
boris-42_dkranz I mean, the biggest problem is that we don't actually now exactly what we would like to get at the end17:42
boris-42_dkranz and it will be faster to make a lot of POC17:42
boris-42_dkranz and finial result put to tempest=)17:43
dkranzboris-42_: In my comment I tried to describe what this would look like at the end17:43
dkranzboris-42_: So it would be fine to push a POC to tempest17:43
boris-42_dkranz okay let's try17:44
dkranzboris-42_: But please take note of my comment as a guideline17:44
boris-42_dkranz I understand that part17:44
boris-42_dkranz But it is too high level17:44
dkranzboris-42_: And remember that there is already a poc in tempest which you will be replacing so make that clear17:44
boris-42_dkranz I mean pre_init of cloud is a bit dangerous thing for Rally17:45
boris-42_dkranz because there cases when you don't have admin access17:45
boris-42_there are*17:45
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boris-42_so it should be independet17:45
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boris-42_e.g. there are part the could prepare cloud for tempest17:46
boris-42_and returns some JSON17:46
boris-42_and there is a part that should accept this json and make config17:46
dkranzboris-42_: I agree they are separate steps but users need to cause the right things to be there17:46
dkranzboris-42_: WHether they do it themselves or tell some admin17:46
dkranzboris-42_: They should be able to point the admin at a script that does the right thing17:46
dkranzboris-42_: There could easily be two separate scripts17:47
boris-42_dkranz I hope that we will use python =)17:47
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dkranzboris-42_: But they are linked in that the "create tempest.conf" is depending on the other one that is creating stuff in the cloud17:47
dkranzboris-42_: Why would we not use python?17:47
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dkranzboris-42_: The POC script in tempest does17:48
boris-42_ok nice17:48
boris-42_could you just give a link?)17:48
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dkranzboris-42_: tempest/tools/tempest_auto_config.py17:48
dkranzboris-42_: It got totally broken when the sample conf format changed17:48
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boris-42_dkranz and I let's continue this discussion in mailing list17:48
dkranzboris-42_: That's what I was thinking17:49
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boris-42_dkranz ok I will write some stuff =)17:49
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boris-42_#topic 5. Updates about fixing couple of painful bugs17:49
*** openstack changes topic to "5. Updates about fixing couple of painful bugs (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:49
boris-42_gust short17:49
boris-42_There was a bug that freezes Rally if OpenStack doesn't response17:50
boris-42_so sometimes it was really impossible to benchmark with Rally17:50
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boris-42_We fixed it using timeouts in os-python-clients17:50
boris-42_And as well I fixed bug around issue gate-26-python that works forever17:50
boris-42_by refactoring mocks17:51
boris-42_#topic  6. Updates in rally.conf17:51
*** openstack changes topic to "6. Updates in rally.conf (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:51
boris-42_hughsaunders could you share pls with updates?)17:51
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hughsaundersI removed lots of magic numbers from scenario utils, and replaced them with config options17:51
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hughsaundersprobably more options than will ever be used, but at least they can be tweaked for different situations - eg short delays for LXC17:52
boris-42_hughsaunders  that makes totally sense ^17:52
boris-42_ok next topic17:53
boris-42_#topic 7. VM benchmarks17:53
*** openstack changes topic to "7. VM benchmarks (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:53
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ around?17:53
boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ your turn17:53
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boris-42_Okay I will just say17:54
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boris-42_that there is work around adding benchmarks that will measure CPU/MEM/IO of VMs17:55
boris-42_I think that they will be based on Hugh approach17:55
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boris-42_but we should just think bit about output17:55
boris-42_of these scenarios17:55
boris-42_to make it clean in Rally arch17:56
hughsaundersyeah, at the moment the script is required to ouput json17:56
boris-42_hughsaunders yep but we should improve it a bit17:56
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hughsaundersbut we could have some output processor in rally that normalises the json from each script17:56
boris-42_hughsaunders but not output data=)17:56
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tnurlygayanov_and also need to support scenarios when we have several VMs with workload simulation17:57
boris-42_hughsaunders so we should think how to process CPU/MEM/IO usage in some common way17:57
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tnurlygayanov_and run benchmmarks on other VMs17:57
boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ eg. IPerf?)17:57
rediskinit should be interface like deploy engines/providers17:57
boris-42_rediskin we will use for such thing heat17:58
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boris-42_rediskin to deploy VMs with HPCC17:58
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boris-42_rediskin tnurlygayanov_  I will think about unifying and making some kind of plugable result processing17:58
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tnurlygayanov_hm, not only iperf. We want to test performance of cloud under the wrokload17:58
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ it will be really hard to implemnt17:59
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ I was already thinking about it17:59
boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ I have a couple of ideas17:59
boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ but it won't be simple17:59
boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ btw are you familiar with Heat?)17:59
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ okay then let's make full things17:59
tnurlygayanov_it was the my first idea17:59
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boris-42_tnurlygayanov_ yep but it will be a bit trickily to integrate it18:00
tnurlygayanov_but I think Rully can do it too18:00
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hughsaundersboris-42_: should probably wrap whole script execution, not just result processing, like in-instance-scenario18:00
tnurlygayanov_if we will not delte VMs after the script running18:00
boris-42_let's go to rally chat18:00
stevemarhowdy marekd18:00
boris-42_time is out18:00
marekdstevemar: hey!18:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 11 18:00:38 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-11-17.01.html18:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-11-17.01.txt18:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-11-17.01.log.html18:00
stevemarlbragstad o/18:00
lbragstadmarekd: ++ on the _ControllerBase stuff18:01
lbragstadstevemar: yo!18:01
dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: o/18:01
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marekddolphm: salut!18:01
marekdlbragstad: credits go to bknudson!18:01
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lbragstadbknudson: marekd thx!18:01
stevemarmarekd, don't be so humble18:01
stevemarmarekd, you had a lot of good stuff18:02
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marekdstevemar: thanks!18:02
dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 11 18:02:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
dolphm#topic Reminder: Icehouse feature proposal freeze February 18th (features must be in code review)18:02
morganfainberg(under the wire!)18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature proposal freeze February 18th (features must be in code review) (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
dolphmwe're in *really* good shape for feature freeze, GREAT JOB EVERYONE! :D18:02
ayoungdolphm, you probably should add morganfainberg_Z to your notify line to wake him up18:02
marekdayoung: what time does he have now?18:03
morganfainbergayoung, i see pings for all variations on my names18:03
dolphmmrgnfeignbern: good to know18:03
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* morganfainberg adds that now as well18:03
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stevemardolphm, Yay!18:03
dolphmso we're a week out from feature proposal freeze, with three bp's not "in review" yet -- and i'm not at all worried about any of them at the moment18:04
dolphmso let's move on!18:04
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ayoungdolphm, I snuck in one last item on the agenda.18:04
stevemargo team18:04
dolphm#topic Spread Domains for other OS services (Nova)18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Spread Domains for other OS services (Nova) (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
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dolphmtellesnobrega: i assume this is your topic?18:04
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bknudsonhow is nova going to use domains?18:04
tellesnobregadolphm: yeap18:04
dolphmand this also directly conflicts with hierarchical multitenancy, so i'm interested in what you're thinking18:05
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bknudsonI believe the auth_token middleware sets the domain info in the env18:05
dolphmif a domain-scoped token is used18:05
tiamarbknudson: it is not in the nova context18:05
henrynashbknudson: it dies18:05
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dolphmtiamar: it's in the environment, though18:06
henrynashit does, i mean!18:06
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tellesnobreganova is just one of the ideas, i was also thinking about glance18:06
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dolphmtellesnobrega: what's the use case?18:06
tellesnobregafor example if we want to have an image that belongs to coca-cola and an image that belongs to pepsi, we dont want them put together18:06
tellesnobreganova is more related to quotas18:07
ayoungtellesnobrega, hierarchical multitenacy18:07
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dolphmtellesnobrega: so, that doesn't require domain-scoped authorization18:07
ayoungdo something at one level of the tree, and only have it vbisible to subnodes18:07
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tellesnobregai see18:07
bknudsonI'm guessing you can't do anything with a domain-scoped token outside of keystone18:07
henrynashayoung: really?  you mean by having a single top level project in each domain that contains the images?18:07
tiamarsome other actions may require domain-scoped auth18:08
ayounghenrynash, domain *is* the top level project18:08
tiamarbknudson, correct18:08
dolphmtellesnobrega: but rather user- or project-domain based quota enforcement, which are passed to nova as x-user-domain-id and x-project-domain-id18:08
ayounglets accept two things, one, domains are unnecessary18:08
ayoungtwo  we are not going to b e able to get rid of domains18:08
dolphmtiamar: like what?18:08
lbragstadthe domain (top-level) would contain the most public images18:08
bknudsonayoung: how do you have namespaces for users without domains?18:08
ayoungok...its a language thing, not a "best design" thing18:08
ayoungbknudson, ah...let me rephrase18:09
dolphmtiamar: "may": sure. do we have a specific use case to discuss?18:09
mrgnfeignbernayoung, ++18:09
ayoungfor assignments, domains are unnecessary, but we won't be able to remove them becvause they are embeddd in the collective brain of our users18:09
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dolphmlbragstad: that steps into hierarchical multitenancy; it's not a use case for our existing definition of "domains" which do NOT own openstack resources18:09
tiamardolphm: mainly to big deployments of Openstack, where a top level administrator may set things i.e images, quotas to a entire domain and projects a domain owns18:10
mrgnfeignbernayoung, this is related to our conversation yesterday...18:10
lbragstadmakes sense18:10
henrynashayoung: we need *some* administrative construct that allowes the creation of levels of administration scope18:10
bknudsondo domains own projects?18:10
henrynashbknudosn: today, ues18:10
ayoungmrgnfeignbern, so I would say that root, domain, and nested projects are the terms we use.  implementation wise, they can all be the same thing18:10
henrynashtoday, yes18:10
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dolphmhenrynash: hierarchical multitenancy :)18:10
mrgnfeignbernayoung, aye,18:11
ayoungroot namespaces domains18:11
ayoungdomains namespace projects18:11
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ayoungprojects namespace subordinate projects18:11
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ayoungwe use different terms for Hysterical Raisins18:11
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gyeeayoung, you saying domains contains projects and project contains subprojects? just make sure I understand18:12
dolphmtiamar: so the use case is distributed domain-wide quota enforcement; what do you need from the keystone community?18:12
dolphmtellesnobrega: ^18:12
ayounggyee, that is my view, yes18:12
henrynashdolphm: and that's fine…..as long as we have the support for how we define users such that hierarchical multitenacy can be used to infer scope of administration18:12
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dolphmhenrynash: if by "infer" you mean "explicitly define" -- then yes! that's the goal18:13
tiamardolphm: not only that, but a domain administrator that could do anythign with a single token in Nova for example18:13
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gyeeayoung, I don't have a firm opinion right now, but I hear ya18:13
henrynashdolphm: that'll do too !18:13
tellesnobregatiamar: +118:13
ayoungnow...a domain is also a concept in identity, so the domain object will have one more, optional field, which is "what IdP do domain users live in"18:13
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dolphmtiamar: that conflicts with our existing concept of multitenancy; you need hierarchical multitenancy for that, and it's an *entirely* separate discussion18:14
ayoungyou have to squint a little to see it, but, feh18:14
dolphmtiamar: probably best saved for the friday meeting, as it evolves18:14
tiamardolphm: ok. but domain isolation is also necessary for multitenancy in Nova, glance...18:15
ayoungtiamar, it will be there18:15
dolphmtiamar: explain?18:15
tiamarayoung: how?18:15
ayoungtiamar, a domain is a top level project with no named parent.  It will come right off of "root" a majic project-type-thingy18:15
dolphmtiamar: nova and glance have no need to care about domains to provide any aspect of multitenancy whatsoever18:15
tiamarayoung: with the nested projects?18:15
ayoungtiamar, replace the term domain with project, and say that projects are hierarchical18:16
ayoungand that a resource in a parent node is visible to all children18:16
tellesnobregadolphm: if we want to have an image that belongs to a specific domain?18:16
dolphmtellesnobrega: that currently makes no sense, as domains do not own resources18:16
ayoungtellesnobrega, then it is owned by that domain and visible to all subprojects in that domain18:16
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tiamarayoung: yes, but doesn't this replacement requires a lot of code rewrite in keystone? does it affect about policy.v3cloudsample.json? I love this file18:17
dolphmtellesnobrega: again, you're providing use cases for hierarchical multitenancy, so i'd suggest bringing up the use case in that meeting / pursuing hierarchical multitenancy first18:17
ayoungand if it is owned by dom1->p1->p2  it is visible to dom1->p1->p2->p318:17
ayoungtiamar, it requires code, yes18:17
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ayoungthat is why we are discussing it.  I think we should table until Friday and move on.18:17
tellesnobregadolphm: sure18:18
tiamarayoung: ok18:18
dolphmayoung: i think so too18:18
dolphm#topic Fixing multi-domain LDAP support18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Fixing multi-domain LDAP support (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
dolphmhenrynash: o/18:18
dolphmhenrynash: i can provide some background here if you'd like18:18
ayoungsee the above line about the domain table18:18
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dolphmhenrynash: (although i don't have any links in front of me)18:19
henrynashok so the plan for this had been to fix the assignment tables, and then layer a fix for the multi-domain LDAP on top of it (as discussed in San Antonio)18:19
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ayoungwe need to be able to safely generate userids based on LDAP source.18:19
ayoungSame problem as Fedration has18:19
ayoungmorganfainberg, put away the booze18:19
dolphmhenrynash: ah, i missed that discussion18:20
morganfainbergayoung, but :(18:20
henrynashmost of the code for multi-domain LDAP is OK…the bit that isn't is where we try and infer the domain_id (to ayoung's point)18:20
ayounghenrynash, I don't know if we need to infer it, so long as the generation is safe18:20
ayoungbut we do need to have larger fields to incorperate18:20
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henrynashayoung: Oh, I agree…but the CURRENT code tries to infer it, which is the bit that is broken18:21
bknudsonwhere is the explicit domain id if we don't infer it?18:21
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ayounghenrynash, so...I think the hack goes, for now, in the LDAP driver id_to_dn18:21
ayoungand the reverse18:21
henrynashayoung: agreed18:21
ayoungwe need to support the existing approach18:21
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ayoungsi if CONF.multi_domain_backends....18:22
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henrynashdolphm: so basically, I'l like to driver this to closure now the assignment tables are ready for review…in conjunction with ayoung18:22
dolphmhenrynash: is it realistic to ship icehouse with this fixed?18:22
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henrynashdolpm: I think so…young"18:23
ayounghenrynash, so I had a SQL question18:23
dolphmi'd rather not ship another release with documentation for a broken feature18:23
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ayoungis there something magic about 64 chars long keys?18:23
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henrynashdolphm: ++18:23
dolphmayoung: no18:23
morganfainbergayoung, no18:23
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ayoungif we up the key length to...I guess 130 chars, do we have the same support?18:23
ayoungIs there some number we need to stay under?18:23
dolphmayoung: up to 25518:23
morganfainbergor varchar25518:24
bknudsonlen(uuid.uuid4().hex) == 3218:24
morganfainbergayoung, > 255 has implications in mysql18:24
henrynashayoung: so we either do that or we store it in two fields in the new assignment table and we return a composite key from the driver….18:24
dolphmbknudson: yeah, i don't know why they were ever 64 to begin with18:24
ayoungmorganfainberg, and pg and DB2 are OK with <255 as well?18:24
dolphmbknudson: essex-ism18:24
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morganfainbergayoung, pg will be18:24
dolphmayoung: yep18:24
morganfainbergbknudson, db2?^18:24
dolphmoh, don't know about db218:24
bknudsonI don't think db2 is going to have a problem with a longer key18:25
lbragstadmorganfainberg: it will truncate on varchar255, won't it?18:25
dolphmlbragstad: how convenient!18:25
morganfainberglbragstad, thats the implication w/ mysql,18:25
bknudsonit's the total length of all the fields in the column that might have an effect on the pagesize.18:25
morganfainberglbragstad, i think pg is less... picky18:25
dolphmmorganfainberg: doesn't pg barf?18:25
ayoungOK, so lets expand the key size to the max safe length, explain why we are doing it, and have a comment in there saying "we can't go any larger"18:25
morganfainbergdolphm, doesn't matter, 255 is what we're setting it at ;)18:25
morganfainbergdolphm, oh if value > 255, yeah18:26
ayoungthen, for  user and groups IDs from LDAP, it is ldap-attribute@@domain_id18:26
topoltwo @@ or one?18:26
dolphmhenrynash: if we don't have a "fix" for multi-ldap by feature freeze, i'd at least like to ship icehouse with the relevant docs commented out or removed18:26
ayoungtopol, to avoid tripping on people using an email address18:26
ayoungtopol, so18:26
ayoungayoung@redhat.com@@abcd1234  is OK18:27
henrynashdolphm: You'll have a fix in code review by the 18th18:27
dolphmhenrynash: the "guess my domain" code needs a giant docstr explaining how broken it is as well, and not to use it as-is18:27
dolphmhenrynash: alright18:27
dolphmhenrynash: is there a bug or something we can track against i3?18:27
bknudsonthe fix is not going to be guessing domains, I hope?18:27
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henrynashdolphm: yes, there is…let me find it18:27
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morganfainbergbknudson, no no guessing18:27
ayoungits also essential that the code that we don't break existing LDAP deployments, or timbell will be sad18:28
ayoungWe don't need to "guess domains"18:28
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ayoungwe just need to be safe in generating the userids18:28
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ayoungOh...wait, for the list users stuff...we need a field in the domain table18:29
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dolphmayoung: i'm just talking about the code that's currently in master18:29
ayoungdolphm, yeah...so looking up a user by userid...can we just say that for multi domains, user domain id needs to be specified in the token request etc?18:30
dolphmayoung: that's an API change, but you can propose it18:30
morganfainbergayoung, i don't think that is unreasonable.  but yeah.. api change (but it's not incompatible)18:30
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dolphmmorganfainberg: actually, it's an additional required attribute, so it is backwards-incompatible18:31
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bknudsonget/users/ayoug@@edhat.com@@abcd1234 ?18:31
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bknudsonoops GET /v3/users/ayoug@@edhat.com@@abcd1234 ?18:31
morganfainbergdolphm, no it's only incompatible if you enable multi-domains18:31
morganfainbergdolphm, oh oh wait..18:31
morganfainbergdolphm, this would include the sql backends?18:31
morganfainbergyeaaah nvm i'm wrong18:32
henrynashdolphm: I can't find the explicit defect (I thought there was one), there's this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/122617118:32
bknudsonGET /v3/users/ayoug@redhat.com@@abcd123418:32
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1226171 in keystone "When using per-domain-identity backend, user_ids could collide" [Medium,Triaged]18:32
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bknudsonseems like we'd break everybody if we changed the user ID format.18:33
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ayoungok...so is userid parsing acceptable?18:33
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ayoungeither way (explicit domain id or userid parsing) we need to map from domain id to LDAP backend18:33
ayoungwhich means we need a way to enumerate the backends18:33
dolphmhenrynash: that works for now18:33
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dolphmayoung: as long as keystone owns ID's, it's acceptable IMO18:34
ayoungbknudson, we just say that userid is a blob, but the LDAP folks have dealt with the assumption of UUID for user id already18:34
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ayoungdolphm, ++18:34
ayoungOK, so how do we go from domain table to the LDAP config?18:34
morganfainbergbknudson, if we change the id format we can also do "if it's not the 'new-format' handle it in a specific backwards-compatible way"18:34
ayoungor, more correctly, can we make it so that this works for Federation as well18:34
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henrynashayoung: the multi-domain config files are "indexed" by domain name (or ID, one or the other)18:35
dstanekjust a quick note about the above user ids - we need to make sure @ is url safe or bknudson is right we could break things18:35
dolphmin the face of hierarchical multitenancy, i should put my patch back up for configurable UUID lengths (so we don't hit that 255 limit immediately)18:35
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ayoungI'd like to treat the SQL backend, any LDAP backens, and the Federated "backends" as different forms of the same thing.18:35
henrynashayoung: ++18:36
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dolphmhenrynash: that should be replaced with one or the other18:36
dolphmhenrynash: the indexing by name or id18:36
ayoungis the @ sign going to make things break>?18:36
morganfainbergdolphm, ? configurable uuid lengths?18:36
dolphmhenrynash: just pick one; i think names are terrible but that's just me18:36
henrynashdolphm: it is one ptr the other, I just can't remember which!18:36
ayoungI know people are using email addresses for userids already18:36
ayoungI can't see that @@ is any worse.18:36
morganfainberghenrynash, files are indexed by name afaik for the external configs18:36
henrynashdolphm: I think it is name so that it is human readable18:37
dolphmmorganfainberg: i replaced all the uuid.uuid4().hex calls with something in keystone.common that did uuid.uuid4().hex[:CONF.uuid_length]18:37
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morganfainberghenrynash, it uses domain-name.conf and reads it in18:37
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dstanekayoung: i would guess yes since the @ is usually before the domain portion of a url, but if we aleady have some...18:37
dolphmmorganfainberg: i got shot down due to increased risk of collision, but it sounds like a more interesting tradeoff now18:37
morganfainbergdolphm, hm....18:37
morganfainbergdolphm, because we have uuid@@uuid possibly?18:38
morganfainbergbut aren't our uuids 64 in len as is?18:38
morganfainbergdolphm, i'm confused on the benefit of trimming them down18:38
dolphmmorganfainberg: uuid@@openstack.domain_uuid.project_uuid.subproject_uuid18:39
dolphmrisk of ^18:39
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morganfainbergdolphm, we should move to another column type18:39
morganfainbergdolphm, if we did that18:39
ayoungproject Ids are not domain scoped.  They are assigned by Keystone18:39
morganfainbergdolphm, not truncated uuids18:39
ayoungunless they want to pull them in from LDAP (in the future)18:39
ayoungin which case it would be, at most LDAPattribute@uuid18:40
ayoungbut not more nesting than that18:40
dolphmayoung: i'm referring to hierarchical multitenancy (which now needs an acronym badly because i don't want to type that anymore), where they might be exposed like that18:40
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morganfainbergtopol ++18:40
lbragstadtopol: ++18:41
* dolphm just tried to type that and muscle-memoried HTML18:41
ayoungAitch Emm Tee18:41
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ayoungHeavy MeTal?18:41
stevemardolphm, you'll manage18:41
henrynashayoung: very good18:41
morganfainbergok, so if that is legitimately a concern, we should look at alternate column types18:41
bknudsonshould be hierarchical multiprojectcy since we changed the term.18:42
morganfainbergbut, they'll need other work for indexing properly then (PK isn't viable on some of them)18:42
dolphmin juno+1 we can rename HMT to HMP (hierarhical multiprojectsy)18:42
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:42
dolphmanyway... what else is on the agenda...18:42
ayoungkeys need to stay short, as they are used in indexes, you don't want them going into the big text blob that most RDBMSes do for freeform text18:42
dolphm#topic Specifying format for compressed tokens18:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Specifying format for compressed tokens (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:42
dolphmayoung: o/18:42
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ayoungOK...so this is pretty cool18:42
dolphmayoung: is this referring to the static prefix?18:42
ayoungI've been learning a little bit more about CMS18:43
morganfainbergdolphm, at the end have a quick review / bp to bring up as possible i3 target18:43
morganfainberg(code is already up)18:43
ayoungI need a way to specify that a token is in comporessed format18:43
dolphmmorganfainberg: (?)18:43
ayoungthe current brokenness is look for MII  at the start of the token18:43
morganfainbergdolphm, let ayoung do his topic and i'll then jump in with the quick bit after18:43
bknudsonwhere does MII come from?18:43
ayoungthat is length specific, so with compression, it will not be MII18:43
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ayoungI was going with {cmsz} as a prefix18:44
ayoungbut...that i s kindof made up18:44
bknudsonan explicit prefix makes more sense18:44
morganfainbergbknudson, ++18:44
ayoungit would be nice if it were something that said "here is how you deal with the data"18:44
morganfainbergi like explicit - known prefixes18:44
jamielennoxbknudson: it's a quirk of encoding the start of a CMS token into base6418:44
ayoungand the order of ops most people need to do is:18:44
gyeebknudson, that is base64 encoded asn.1 thing18:44
dolphmayoung: you know the zlib output contains gzip headers, correct?18:44
dolphmso, it's already clear that it's compressed18:44
ayoungbase64 decode, uncompress, verify sign, parse JSON18:45
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morganfainbergdolphm, but not everything has headers like that.18:45
ayoungdolphm, yeah...and that is also an option:  just say that it is BASE64 and then deduce at each step18:45
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ayoungthe formats we  need to deal with are18:45
dolphmor something gzip compatible; i'm not clear on what zlib does different from plain "gzip"18:45
morganfainbergdolphm, might make sense ot just say "this is what it is"18:45
ayoungbase64, gzip, der, JSON18:45
dolphmmorganfainberg: i'm not opposed to something human-readable, i'm just pointing out that it's not entirely machine-useful18:46
dolphmrather, it's redundant18:46
ayoungnow, there are not an clear content types in HTML land for this, mainly because crypto, comoppression, etc are done as separate HTML headers18:46
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ayoungI was thinking18:46
dolphmayoung: it's also in a header by itself, and should be opaque to clients18:46
dolphmayoung: you shouldn't expect clients to work with headers for this18:47
dolphm(other) headers18:47
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ayoungdolphm, right18:47
gyeeayoung, I though CMS offer compression as well, lemme check the spec18:47
ayoungso I was strwamanning using ^^ as the prefix18:47
ayounggyee, I am pretty sure it does18:47
dolphmayoung: why not use that?18:47
jamielennoxgyee: i've never seen that18:47
ayoungdolphm, well we still need a way to detect the token type18:48
dolphmayoung: that's also giant, and starts to bulk the token back up!18:48
morganfainberggyee, beat me to it18:48
gyeenot sure if its been superseded though18:48
dolphmayoung: if CMS handles compression already, then it wouldn't be our problem18:48
ayoungdolphm, yep...I am aware,18:48
jamielennoxgyee: awesome18:48
ayoungdolphm, CMS format might, not sure if the tools expose it18:48
ayoungLet me see...18:49
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dolphmso, does openssl support that spec?18:49
gyeedolphm, should, but need to double check18:49
dolphmthat spec makes a good argument for compressing before signing18:49
ayoungthe lib does18:49
ayoungnot sure if the CLI does18:49
ayoungI don't see a switch for it18:49
ayoungokits not inthe man page, but on the site.  let me play around with that18:50
ayoungso...what to do about detecting token format, then?18:50
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dolphmayoung: can you hit -dev with a clear breakdown of the options?18:51
morganfainbergayoung, might be a new(er) release than the cli18:51
bknudsonthen you'll need --uncompress on the other side?18:51
dolphmayoung: we have several viable paths at this point, it seems :)18:51
ayoungbknudson, I think that might be done by default18:51
gyeeayoung, we should use a header to indicate the token format18:51
gyeeI think that's the proper way to do this18:51
jamielennoxayoung: nothing? it means we keep a CMS packet and we can just detect whether its compressed or not18:51
dolphmplus it'd be fun to advertise support for this to a broader audience18:51
ayoungdolphm, yep...and there is one other nastiness I was hoping to clean up, which is base64 should be url_safe...I think I might be able to get that, too18:52
dolphmgyee: i don't think so18:52
jamielennoxgyee: i don't think we should add more headers18:52
gyeedolphm, why not?18:52
morganfainbergjamielennox, we should move everything to headers.18:52
morganfainbergjamielennox, EVERYTHING18:52
morganfainbergjamielennox, ;)18:52
dolphmgyee: because the token should be opaque18:52
ayoungjamielennox, I think I can check the length, and, if it is greater then len of a uuid, perform a base64decode on it18:52
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gyeeCMS tokens are not opaque, they contain stuff18:52
jamielennoxayoung: if it's a CMS token though we should be able to still check for MII18:52
ayoungOK..I have some work to do...I think I can drop all of the PEM stuff18:53
ayoungjamielennox, nope18:53
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ayoungMII won't work if it is compressed18:53
gyeethey are essentially signed documents18:53
ayoungit MII is length of the token dependent18:53
* dolphm going to cut the meeting 5 minutes short as i have to run soon18:53
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ayoungI think I'm good18:53
jamielennoxayoung: it won't work if we gzipped a token - if we have compresseddata in cms it probably will18:53
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ayoungjamielennox, ++ that is what I meant18:53
dolphmjamielennox: if openssl supports compressed CMS, then ++18:53
jamielennoxgyee: clients don't know that yet18:53
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* ayoung going to test18:54
gyeejamelennox, they will right? :)18:54
jamielennoxgyee: no18:54
bknudsonayoung: thanks for looking into this. I think it will make a lot of users happy to have smaller tokens.18:54
dolphmgyee: they're not opaque to keystone tools, they're opaque to clients and need to remain so18:54
jamielennoxgyee: for no reason i can think of18:54
ayoungit should be transparent.  When the check the signature, library should see it is compressed18:54
dolphmtry: zlib.decompress(token) except: pass18:54
ayoungI might abandon the old review, if the code is radically simpler18:54
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dolphmcutting it short... thanks everyone!18:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:55
gyeeisn't middleware a client, anyway18:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 11 18:55:38 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-11-18.02.html18:55
morganfainbergdolphm, doh18:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-11-18.02.txt18:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-11-18.02.log.html18:55
dolphmmorganfainberg: ay carumba18:56
morganfainbergdolphm, -dev18:56
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* fungi watches as tumbleweeds roll through the meeting channel18:59
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jeblairhi infra folks19:00
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mattoliverauMoring  all19:00
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jeblairmordred: ping19:01
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jeblairSergeyLukjanov: in case you are around...19:01
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 11 19:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:01
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:02
SergeyLukjanovjeblair, btw, I'm always here in this time :)19:02
jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-04-19.02.html19:02
jeblairSergeyLukjanov: i know, i just didn't want to be pushy.  :)19:02
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SergeyLukjanovjeblair :)19:02
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jeblair#topic  Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
jeblairwow there are a lot19:02
jeblair#action mordred continue looking into bug 124256919:04
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1242569 in openstack-ci "manage-projects error on new project creation" [Critical,In progress] https://launchpad.net/bugs/124256919:04
jeblairclarkb: zmq plugin upgrade?19:04
clarkbthe patch for zmq plugin has been tested and merged, I need to tag a release and apply it to servers19:04
clarkbbut I think that owkr is less important now than having reliable logstash19:05
jeblairclarkb: what's that in service of?19:05
jeblairclarkb: ++logstash19:05
clarkbjeblair: adding master data to logstash records19:05
clarkbwhich isn't helpful if logstash is fallen over19:05
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jeblairfungi: i haven't looked at graphite recently; did you get a chance to look at it and see if we should move it to ssd?19:05
fungishort answer is i don't think there's any need since the cinder volume addition. see the iowait change on the monthly cpu graph19:06
fungi#link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=440&rra_id=all19:06
fungiand the load average dropped off similarly19:06
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fungi#link http://cacti.openstack.org/cacti/graph.php?action=view&local_graph_id=439&rra_id=all19:06
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jeblairfungi: cool, yeah, that looks much healthier19:06
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fungithe whisper files also aren't going to buy us anything to clean up currently19:06
jeblairanyone know anything about virtualenv 1.10.1 pin?19:06
fungibreakdown looks like 1.9% untouched for 8 months, 21% untouched for 2 months, 28% untouched for a month, 42% untouched for a week, 52% untouched for a day19:06
clarkbjeblair: yes, we need tox to merge my PR before we can unpin it19:07
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clarkbjeblair: the virtualenv, tox, and pip pins are all intermingled19:07
fungithat's assuming we want to unpin tox and virtualenv/pip at the same time, which is probably wise19:07
jeblairclarkb: roger.  i won't echo that action item them19:07
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jeblairanything else from that list we should check in on?19:08
jeblair#action jeblair get ssl cert for storyboard19:08
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fungithat seems to have covered it19:08
jeblair#topic Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap, SlickNik)19:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Trove testing (mordred, hub_cap, SlickNik) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:08
jeblairi think this is in the same state as last week19:09
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69501/19:09
jeblairpending tempest review19:09
jeblairso i'll move on unless there's anything further on this19:09
jeblair#topic  Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2, fungi)19:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Tripleo testing (lifeless, pleia2, fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:10
jeblairi think it is happening again.19:10
fungithe tripleo-ci cloud is back online thanks to lifeless's ministrations, in nodepool again and zuul is handing it jobs once more19:10
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pleia2I'm still working on getting fedora building as a slave in nodepool19:10
pleia2but we've had some good patches go in19:10
fungialso, with a MUCH larger quota now19:10
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jeblairpleia2: what's fedora in service of?19:11
fungiin theory, so we can also spin up bare/devstack slaves if we want19:11
pleia2jeblair: a nodepool slave19:11
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jeblairpleia2: right, but to what end?19:11
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pleia2jeblair: ah, we want to test on both ubuntu and fedora for the entire testing stack19:11
fungias opposed to ubuntu and rhel/centos i guess19:12
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jeblairpleia2: this is a tripleo desire?19:12
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pleia2jeblair: yes19:12
fungihas anybody tried to nodepool-prep a bare centos 6.4 image?19:13
pleia2jeblair: but since starting this, I've also bumped into other people interested in running nodepool with fedora, so the work will be valuable beyond just this19:13
jeblairpleia2: so for the gate, we took what the project said it wants to support, combined that with the lifecycles of the respective distros, factored to the least common denominator and ended up with precise and centos19:13
fungifrom an infra team perspective, having nodepool able to give us resources to run python 2.56 jobs would be really swell19:13
fungier, 2.619:13
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lifelessjeblair: so, from a 'does python work' perspective thats fine19:14
jeblairfungi: yes, we definitely need a bare centos6, but it shouldn't be too hard since it's an existing puppet thing19:14
lifelessjeblair: but from a deploy perspective, centos is not == fedora19:14
clarkbfungi: no, but I did try to do a d-g centos image back when dprince and ArxCruz wrote changes to support centos19:14
clarkber maybe it was fedora, ya fedora19:14
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jeblairlifeless: definitely; but one of the reasons why we don't test on fedora or saucy is due to the support lifecycle19:15
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jeblairlifeless: this is probably not a concern for tripleo since its support lifecycle is much smaller than openstack's19:15
jeblairas a whole19:15
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lifelessjeblair: also because we're targeting CD, where we expect folk to be tracking latest everything, more or less.19:15
jeblairi think i'm bringing it up to tease out any issues that may be related to this...19:16
fungii think to some extent our current choices are reflected in the fact that ubuntu uses ltc for uca and rh does rdo on rhel rather than fedora19:16
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lifelessjeblair: but, there are folk wanting stable release branches - like slagle - so they may want stable OS test jobs.19:16
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jeblairso i think as long as these nodes are only being used on master, there's probably no issue19:16
jeblairfungi: that too19:16
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jeblairpleia2, lifeless: are you just planning on running tripleo-related jobs on these?19:17
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pleia2I think we do want to expand it once we have at least a 2nd hardware pool (from redhat) and everything is running fast and stable19:20
pleia2but lifeless can answer that better19:20
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jeblairthe main consideration is that in general when we test a release on an os, we like to keep testing it on the same os; since the fast releases of both ubuntu and fedora have shorter lives than openstack stable releases19:20
jeblairso if we were to start running nova unit tests on saucy, we would not be able to continue duing that for the whole life of icehouse19:21
jeblairthat's why the primary testing platforms are lts/centos19:21
jeblairwe could additionally run tests on fedora or latest-ubuntu, if that got us something, but in general it doesn't19:22
jeblairspecifically for tripleo, i could see how it would though19:22
fungisimilarly, there's little point in supporting security fixes for a project which is only being tested on distros which are no longer themselves under security support19:22
jeblairso running tripleo master on the CD platforms it wants to deploy on makes sense to me.  more so than say nova unit tests or even the devstack-gate.19:23
fungiand the chances that a deployer will upgrade the operating system underneath openstack without upgrading openstack are somewhat low19:23
jeblairfungi: ++19:23
fungiwhich leaves us with stable releases on distro releases which outlive or at least keep pace with them19:23
lifelessok so19:24
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lifelessthe RH cloud is a)more capacity but more importantly its the multi-vendor multi-site redundancy we were told we needed for gating19:24
lifelessso the goal with the RH cloud is to get to having gate jobs for deploys.19:25
fungigot it. so fedora is being used for the undercloud instances then?19:25
lifelessfungi: there's several facets19:25
lifelessfungi: the RH region will be running on top of Fedora, so that we're running two regions with two different distros19:25
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lifelessthats a coverage thing to find things tests don't, as much as anything ;)19:25
lifelessfungi: separately19:25
lifelessfungi: we want to know that we work on fedora, so we want to gate it - because all the devs work on fedora there, and breaking folk is not nice19:26
lifelessfungi: but also, we'll have a production region running fedora. We want that to not break.19:26
lifelessso circular logic :)19:26
jeblairlifeless: what do you want to gate on fedora?  unit tests?  devstack-gate?19:27
lifelessjeblair: tripleo-gate19:27
lifelessjeblair: we want to gate tripleo-gate on fedora and ubuntu and possibly more in future; nothing to do with unittests or d-g19:27
jeblairmakes sense.19:27
lifelessjeblair: but tripleo-gate will include tempest19:27
lifelesswhat else19:28
lifelessoh, we're happy for excess capacity to be d-g nodes19:28
lifelessand they can be whatever you want to upload to glance19:28
lifelesscentos etc19:28
jeblairlifeless: sure.  so that all makes sense and should work fine as long as you are focusing on CD and master19:28
fungiyay actual usable glance!19:28
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jeblairlifeless: if tripleo and tripleo-gate start to want to service stable branches, then you'll run into the same disconnect that left us with lts/centos19:29
lifelessI think when slagle's stable branch stuff happens, in the first iteration it won't be tested on updates.19:29
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lifelesssimply because we don't have capacity at the moment19:29
jeblairlifeless: this is perhaps not a problem we need to solve now though, but to be aware of for later.19:29
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jeblairalso, yay actual usable glance! :)19:30
slagleyea, i'm not honestly sure if we're going to want the stable branches stuff for fedora19:30
lifelessif vendors want to step up with enough capacity for that, in enough regions to satisfy the infra redundancy stuff, then we can do tests for those branches on suitable oses19:30
slaglei suspect centos would be fine19:30
lifelessslagle: yah19:30
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jeblairok.  i think this has been useful.  thanks.19:30
jeblairanything else on this topic?19:31
fungihowever if you don't test master on centos too, then come release time you're stuck with software which probably only runs on fedora19:31
pleia2I think that's it19:31
jeblairfungi: yep.  so that could look like master on centos+fedora, then stable on centos.19:31
lifelessjeblair: similar for ubuntu family, and debian family, and so on.19:32
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lifelessbaby steps19:32
* fungi was singling fedora/centos out as merely an example19:32
jeblair#topic  Requested StackForge project rename (fungi, clarkb, zhiwei)19:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Requested StackForge project rename (fungi, clarkb, zhiwei) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:32
lifelessSpecifically - I want to get the current check jobs covering more of the feature set, and I want to get them gating.19:32
lifelessthen add width.19:32
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jeblairlifeless: ++depth first.19:33
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clarkbhrm I thought zhiwei was going to attend the meeting? are you around?19:33
fungiclarkb: he did pop up on sunday i think (which was probably his monday) saying he was back and ready when we are19:33
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jeblairtoo bad he missed the oslo renames19:34
clarkbI can do this weekend, weekend after that is harder, iirc holiday and stuff19:34
jeblairi'd prefer to batch this with openstack downtime.19:34
clarkbjeblair: wfm19:34
SergeyLukjanovwhich projects should be renamed?19:35
SergeyLukjanovlooks like I've missed it19:35
clarkbSergeyLukjanov: the chef cookbook project for ceilometer19:35
SergeyLukjanovclarkb, oh19:35
clarkbhowever, maybe we can do it with sava*cough*?19:35
fungithe stackforge/chef-metering-cookbook s/metering/telemetry/ i think19:35
fungisomething like that19:35
fungiSergeyLukjanov: did you have a timeline for when savana projects might be ready to rename?19:36
SergeyLukjanovheh, I hope that we'll choose the name in a few weeks19:36
SergeyLukjanovbut the soft deadline is i319:36
SergeyLukjanovand we already have tons of options19:37
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SergeyLukjanovso, couldn't guarantee any timeline for savanna renaming19:37
fungiwe do have a bug with the most recent gerrit commentlink config changes breaking change-id links, but that'll only need a very quick gerrit restart so batching up with actual renames would definitely be better19:37
jeblairdguitarbite: around?19:37
dguitarbitejeblair: yes19:37
jeblairi'm going to jump around on the agenda19:38
jeblair#topic Request for Moodle App Integration to infra for Training-Manuals (dguitarbite, sarob)19:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Request for Moodle App Integration to infra for Training-Manuals (dguitarbite, sarob) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:38
jeblairdguitarbite: what's up? :)19:38
dguitarbitehey jeblair :)19:38
fungiannegentle had questions on this topic too, so she may want to listen in19:38
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dguitarbitesarob and our team designing OpenStack-Training did some testing with Moodle App for quizzes and other content delivery which is not covered at present19:39
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dguitarbiteas of now its hosted on aptira servers http://os-trainingquiz.aptira.com/19:39
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dguitarbiteI would like to know if its possible to move it on Infra19:40
dguitarbiteand if yes, what are the requirements/steps/procedures to follow.19:40
jeblairdguitarbite: almost certainly yes19:41
fungidguitarbite: do you/they have at least an outline of the steps necessary to install and configure that site?19:41
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fungiwe'd probably be able to spot pain points more easily with access to some documentation about what's involved19:42
dguitarbitewe have gdoc for the same, I will share the link19:42
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clarkbthere isn't existing config management for it si there? if so that may make a translation to infra puppet simple19:42
jeblairdguitarbite: so the cool thing is that anyone can basically do almost everything needed to spin up and maintain a server under openstack-infra19:42
fungithe short answer is that someone will need to encode the steps necessary for setting up the server into a puppet manifest and associated files so that it's repeatable19:43
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fungiand contribute that as a change for review to the openstack-infra/config project19:43
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jeblairdguitarbite: here's the detailed steps: http://ci.openstack.org/sysadmin.html#adding-a-new-server  but reading that whole page is probably a good idea19:43
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jeblairdguitarbite: but yeah, what fungi outlined is probably the best way to proceed19:45
jeblairdguitarbite: let's spend a bit of time reviewing that doc and talking about it to make sure we're on the same page19:45
jeblairdguitarbite: then write a puppet manifest for it19:45
jeblairdguitarbite: who installed the current system?19:45
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dguitarbite_sorry net issue19:46
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jeblairdguitarbite_: np, you can see the bottom of http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.log.txt in case you missed anything19:47
fungieek, you probably missed most of that19:47
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clarkbbots to the rescue19:48
dguitarbite_well I installed the current system19:48
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dguitarbite_also I would love to push some puppet code to infra19:49
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dguitarbite_I installed *Moodle*19:49
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jeblairdguitarbite_: perfect; then we'll help you do that!19:49
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dguitarbite_dstanek: thanks19:49
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jeblairdguitarbite_: all right, so send us the link to the doc, and we'll look it over to see where the pitfalls might be, then we'll help you get started writing the puppet to manage the server19:50
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jeblairwe only have a few minutes left, so i want to jump to this topic since i think people woke up early for it19:51
jeblair#topic  Consider a meeting time that allows team members from AU to participate (anteaya)19:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Consider a meeting time that allows team members from AU to participate (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:51
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fungi(...and eu)19:51
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jeblairanteaya proposed we move the meeting to Tuesdays at 2200 UTC19:52
jeblairi'd like to make some general comments on the subject...19:52
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dguitarbite_annegentle: any questions about moodle?19:52
SergeyLukjanov2am for me, can't say that i like this time for meeting ;)19:52
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jeblairi do think this meeting is important for cross-project collaboration19:52
mattoliverau2200 UTC is 9am Wednesday morning in my Aus (Sydney, Canberra, Melbourne) time zone19:52
jeblairit is often good to get a bunch of people working on different issues together here19:53
fungi2200 utc will also probably end up conflicting with jeblair and i on foundation staff meetings once dst starts again, unless the weeks alternate from ours or we convince the staff to shift that19:53
jeblairbut attending this meeting is not necessary in order to contribute to infra19:53
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jeblairmost of us are in channel and responsive during most of our working days19:54
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jeblairand so generally if something is blocking you, that can be handled outside of the meeting19:54
fungian alternate proposal i've seen is to have two meetings a week at different times, and people who want to attend both (if it's convenient for them) can cross-pollinate topics19:54
clarkbfungi: right, so I was also going to suggest we could do two times, one earlier for EU and one later for AU19:54
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jeblairi'm open to moving the meetings to accomodate people when there is a need, but i'm not sure we're at that point yet19:55
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fungii'm personally cool attending meetings at odd hours for me if there's a group consensus that it will be beneficial19:56
jeblairlet me put it this way; if this meeting time is inhibiting someone from contributing to openstack-infra, please let me know19:56
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SergeyLukjanovbtw I'm still able to attend 2200 UTC meeting, especially if it'll be not each week ;)19:57
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SergeyLukjanov2 mins left19:58
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mattoliverauSeeing as time doesn't stop, someone will always have to face a bad time. SergeyLukjanov 2am is a horrible time for you to have to get up.19:58
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fungiand i don't think anyone should necessarily feel compelled to attend the meeting, regardless of what time it's held at. if that gets in the way of contributing we need to figure out ways to improve the ways in which we enable productive contributors19:58
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jeblairfungi: indeed19:59
fungiand that might mean shifting meeting times, but it also could mean lots of other solutions19:59
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SergeyLukjanovI hope that I can help mattoliverau due to my UTC+0400 tz19:59
jeblairokay, let's keep this meeting where it is now; when we find that movining the meeting time (including alternating) would help us achieve a specific goal, let's consider it then.19:59
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jeblairSergeyLukjanov: that would be great19:59
fungiand speaking of time, we're at it20:00
jeblairthanks everyone; zaro, we'll try to catch up on gerrit in channel20:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 11 20:00:18 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.html20:00
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openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-11-19.01.log.html20:00
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ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
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jraimHere for Barbican20:00
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ttxannegentle, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, lifeless, sdague, dhellmann : around ?20:01
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ttxthat makes 8 of us, enough to run20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 11 20:01:52 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxOur agenda for today:20:02
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ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:02
ttx#topic Incubation request: Barbican20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubation request: Barbican (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
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ttxOriginal request:20:02
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-January/025860.html20:02
ttxEtherpad with analysis:20:02
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/GFoJ4LpK8A20:02
* ttx refreshes20:02
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ttxLooks like everything is covered20:04
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ttxjraim: devstack-gate job still missing, but on its way ?20:04
russellbreally appreciate the hard work since we last talked20:04
jraimjraim: the devstack integration is done and the reviews look good, but it hasn't been merged yet20:04
jraimwe need to poke some people I think20:04
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jraimrussellb: thanks - I appreciate the feedback we've gotten from everyone during this process20:05
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ttxcomments anyone ?20:05
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vishyI was wondering if there were any steps taken based on justinsbs feedback20:06
vishyabout the apis20:06
lifelessttx: o/20:06
ttxlifeless, annegentle: welcome20:06
jraimvishy: the issue about having more of the API defined?20:06
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annegentlejraim: I had also hoped the api docs would be in a public repo for comment and review20:07
sdaguettx: o/ as well20:07
vishyjraim: the thread here http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-September/015477.html20:07
russellbtechnically API docs are listed as a requirement, too ... so have to decide whether we're willing to waive that if they're not there ... also have the devstack-gate issue20:08
jraimannegentle: we plan to do that, I think ayoung put in the first review for it20:08
vishyjraim: actually wrong thread20:08
vishythis one: http://markmail.org/message/erzouim6pnqjaqtz20:08
jraimrussellb: we do have API docs on our wiki in github and those are being moved to docbook now20:08
markmcare these not API docs? https://github.com/cloudkeep/barbican/wiki/Application-Programming-Interface20:08
russellbjraim: ok20:08
russellbnm then20:09
annegentlejraim: ah, found it. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71396/20:09
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jraimvishy: right. While I sympathize with the problem, I don't think roughing out APIs that don't have code or consumers before they are needed is the right way to go20:09
vishyspecifically key rotation / symmetric keys20:09
vishyso the plan is to figure it out later and fix it in v2?20:09
jraimI think the plan is to add those features when there is need and deal with the API changes. Hopefully, we can do them in a backwards compatible manner20:10
vishyjraim: ok20:10
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jraimif we can't, then we'll have to factor that into the implementation20:10
ttxvishy: they are entering incubation, not being released just now20:10
vishyttx: I know, I'm unclear on when a 1.0 api would be considered final20:11
vishybut it isn't totally obvious that it would be at integration time20:11
vishyso I wanted to follow up a bit on justin's concerns20:11
ttxvishy: yes, I have a point about that later in the meeting20:11
ttx(about the API stability constraints)20:12
jraimit is a reasonable concern. I'm not sure how to fix it however. Building stable APIs is hard20:12
markmcjraim, what happens "the Cloud Keep initiative" if Barbican enters Incubation?20:12
jraimwe can try the best we can and then version appropriately20:12
jraimmarkmc: most of our work is already moved over to stackforge20:12
jeblairand when we would expect other openstack projects to start using it -- on incubation, in the j cycle, or graduation...20:12
jraimCloudKeep might keep some things outside of OpenStack (e.g. vendor plugins, etc)20:12
jraimbut other than that, I don't have a lot of plans for it20:12
markmcjraim, I guess I'm asking what would be part of this new program apart from barbican and python-barbicanclient20:13
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russellbjraim: which plugins do you expect to be in barbican then?20:13
markmcjraim, or how would you decide as PTL what to move into the program from cloudkeep and what to keep in cloudkeep?20:13
jraimmarkmc: right now, I think that's it. We are looking at Dogtag integration which might be its own repo, we'll see how the RedHat guys feel20:13
russellbwhich would you encourage in vs out20:13
russellbor how would you decide that20:14
jraimmarkmc: off the top of my head, anything that we would want to use openstack process for (e.g. gerrit, etc) would move over20:14
jraimnot sure how other projects handle vendor plugins20:14
jraimbut I'd probably steal their ideas on that one20:14
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jraimI'd rather default to in OpenStack / in-tree is possible20:14
russellbinclude them all for the most part, as long as they make sense / play by the rules20:14
mikalWhy wouldn't you want to use our process for everything?20:14
jraimand just be mindful of adding things that no one cares about20:14
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markmcjraim, no https://github.com/stackforge/postern ? and cloudkeep/postern is essentially empty ?20:15
mikalAhhh, ok20:15
jraimmikal: if the code is written by a non-contributor maybe?20:15
markmcjraim, how important is an agent to barbican?20:15
jraimmarkmc: is was part of the original idea behind the project. Since then, we've looked at certmonger and some other options20:15
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jraimwe might still create an agent if there are use cases for it20:15
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markmcok, so no use cases requiring it right now?20:16
jraimnot sure if those are useful for openstack services or just consumers of an openstack cloud20:16
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jraimmarkmc: I have some use cases for apps that run on an openstack cloud20:16
jraimand redhat has some based on certmonger for openstack services20:16
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jraimthere are some needs there, but more thought required before we started working on anything20:16
jraimredhat might move forward with certmonger integreation - we've talked about it20:17
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markmcso, cloud operators would need to get an agent from elsewhere for those use cases ?20:17
jraimmarkmc: we could go either way. If we think it belongs in openstack, happy to do it here20:17
markmcbut where's the agent now?20:17
ttxTC members: do you think we should wait for the minimal devstack-gate requirement to be fully implemented before considering this request ? Or can we provisionally accept ?20:18
jraimbut if it just an app that uses barbican that can work on any platform, maybe it doesn't go in openstack?20:18
jeblairttx: i think we should wait20:18
markmcjraim, if features of barbican aren't functional to users of openstack clouds without the agent, then I think it's an important part of this new program20:18
annegentle#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70512/20:19
annegentle(That's the review for the devstack gate, right sdague?)20:19
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jraimmarkmc: I would agree.20:19
dhellmannmarkmc: +120:19
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markmcjraim, where's the code for the agent?20:19
ttxmarkmc: the agent looks pretty optional to me ?20:19
markmcttx, that's what I was asking - sounds like it's required for some use cases20:19
sdagueannegentle: that's the devstack side20:19
jraimttx: right now, certainly since it doesn't exist :)20:19
markmcjraim, ah!20:19
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sdaguejraim: where's the d-g side of that?20:19
markmc<markmc> ok, so no use cases requiring it right now?20:19
jeblairi think the reason for that requirement was to either make sure it gets done, or determine major obstacles; i don't think that process is far enough along yet to say it's served either of those purposes.20:20
markmc<jraim> markmc: I have some use cases for apps that run on an openstack cloud20:20
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ttxhttps://github.com/cloudkeep/postern#why-use-postern make it look like a client lib20:20
markmcjraim, that's where the confusion came from :)20:20
jraimmarkmc: we have some ideas about what an agent could enable, but nothing is done yet20:20
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russellbsdague: not implemented20:20
russellbsdague: open question of whether we should block on it20:20
russellbsdague: devstack support up for review, no job yet, AFAIK20:20
sdagueright, I think having the job is pretty important20:20
jraimmarkmc: understood, sorry about that. I just meant we have some ideas of problems we could solve with it, nothing done yet20:21
sdaguebecause it demonstrates this can actually install and coexist with the rest of openstack20:21
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russellbi think we have the requirements for good reasons ... and should probably defer again20:21
ttxOK, so it looks like we should delay voting until all requirements are filled20:21
russellband revisit once it's done20:21
mikalrussellb: I agree20:21
russellbttx: +120:21
markmcjraim, ok, so .. palisade :)20:21
annegentlettx: sounds good20:21
markmcjraim, does that become an horizon integration effort?20:21
ttxis there anything else the barbican folks need to cover before coming back to us ?20:21
jraimrussellb: sdague when I looked at the gating job, it seemed like being in devstack was enough if you weren't part of enabled services?20:21
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jraimmarkmc: that's my plan now20:21
russellbjraim: you can have a job that just runs on barbican that spins up devstack with barbican enabled20:22
russellbthat's what we need here20:22
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sdagueand that does something20:22
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sdaguesome minimal testing of any nature you like20:22
russellb"hey API, are you alive?"20:22
russellbwould probably be sufficient at this stage IMO20:22
ttx#info Missing basic devstack-gate job20:22
jraimrussellb: so we've been doing that to test our impl, where would we add that job?20:22
russellblet's chat details outside the meeting, happy to give pointers20:23
jeblairjraim: there are a few examples of this; let us know in the #openstack-infra channel and we can point you at them20:23
jraimwe did a little of that in just devstack with our exercises, but I'm happy to add it20:23
jraimrussellb: great, thanks20:23
jraimjeblair: will do20:23
russellbbasically you need 1) devstack, 2) devstack-gate, and 3) infra config20:23
russellbchanges in those 3 places20:23
ttxok, so we should defer the decision on this20:23
jeblairrussellb: (actually not devstack-gate for incubation)20:23
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mikalttx: agreed20:23
ttxjraim: I'll also help you draft the governance repo change that will serve as the base for the final decision20:23
jraimttx: great20:23
russellbjeblair: i guess so, ENABLED_SERVICES is enough, you're right20:23
annegentleI would like a single source of truth for API docs (not that I'm noticing disagreement, but just noting)20:23
ttxjraim: ping me when the devstack-gate stuff is covered20:24
russellbok, devstack and infra config :)20:24
ttxanything else on that topic ?20:24
jraimannegentle: I think the goal is to migrate to docbook and remove everything else20:24
SergeyLukjanovrussellb, btw, is it ok to merge into devstack not yet incubated project?20:24
annegentlejraim: sounds good20:24
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markmcjraim, minor thing, but it'd be good if statements like "The Postern agent is capable of presenting these secrets in various formats to ease integration." weren't in the present tense :)20:24
markmcjraim, from https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Barbican/Incubation20:25
russellberrr ... i guess you can do devstack support as plugins, not actually as a patch to devstack itself20:25
jraimmarkmc: yeah, I'll go back and clean that stuff up. The only impl we ever had was a PoC that couldn't be run in prod20:25
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russellbthat's how solum has it for example, and they have a devstack-gate job20:25
ttxok, moving on20:25
markmcjraim, cool20:25
sdagueyeh, solum is actually a good example20:25
jeblairSergeyLukjanov, russellb: yeah, i think that's the way devstack wants to go for pre-integrated projects20:25
russellbmakes sense20:25
ttx#topic Defining "designated sections" for DefCore20:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Defining "designated sections" for DefCore (Meeting topic: tc)"20:25
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026413.html20:26
ttxIn that thread I proposed that we approached this question in two steps20:26
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ttxFirst we would answer the objective question: "which parts of each project have a pluggable interface ?"20:26
ttxThen, once we have that list, we could answer a second question: "where, in that list, is it acceptable to run an out of tree implementation ?"20:26
russellba public pluggable interface20:26
ttxrussellb: +120:26
ttxAnyone against this two-step approach ?20:26
sdaguenope, lgtm20:27
markmcI don't know that there was much agreement that this is going to ultimately be useful20:27
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russellbmarkmc: +120:27
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markmce.g. http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026559.html20:27
jgriffithagree with markmc20:27
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mikalI think we need to discuss how we feel about vendor specific modifications to the unpluggable bits too20:27
jgriffithalso not entirely sure about that appraoch20:27
markmc"The request from the DefCore committee around designated sections would replace Section 2(i) in the above example. The external API testing that is being developed would fulfill Section 3."20:28
dhellmannwhat is "this"? designating at all, or using the plugin API?20:28
dhellmannas the designation20:28
markmcpersonally, the more I think about it - I'd rather us just be tackling the API testing part20:28
jgriffithmarkmc: can you describe?20:28
jgriffithmarkmc: just API compat and call it good?20:28
russellbAPI compat and a general "you must use the code" statement?20:28
markmc"include the entirety of the [..] code from either of the latest two releases and associated milestones, but no older"20:28
markmcthat seems fine to me for now20:28
dhellmanninclude != "run"20:29
russellbthat's the current statement right?20:29
mikalmarkmc: I'd prefer something along the lines of "include and run"20:29
markmcno point blocking progress on API testing on the "run the code" part20:29
markmcmikal, well, think of a distro - a distro can only include it20:29
jgriffithmarkmc: I'd be ok with that, and of course if the project accepts pluggable drivers use whatever you want as long as the API tests work20:29
annegentlecore or extensions too?20:29
annegentleer, API core20:29
jgriffithI'm finding many of the cinder drivers don't succeed here20:29
mikalmarkmc: well, they run it by adding the relevant hooks (e.g. systemd start entries)20:29
russellbi think all this detailed listing of components (and trying to keep that accurate for all of these rapidly evolving projects) sounds like a nightmare20:29
jgriffithrussellb: +120:30
russellband feels like overkill20:30
jgriffithrussellb: and I'm not sure what/if it means20:30
markmcmikal, our users run the code20:30
dhellmannis the driving factor there some desire to have part of a project not be listed as core?20:30
lifelessmikal: the deployed instances run it, distros only in testing.20:30
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ttxhmm, I think this is not our game, though. Defcore is where those rules are defined... and they ask us to designate code sections. If you think that's not the right approach, you can fight that approach at DefCore level20:30
russellbmarkmc: i really liked your list comment about keeping what we say now, and go after anyone that the board doesn't feel is acting in good faith20:30
mikalmarkmc: I don't want someone re-writing nova in Java, and then saying they've included the python code by dumping it in a dir and therefore can use the trademark20:30
lifelessmikal: Ubuntu OpenStack for instance.20:30
ttxi'm just trying to answer their technical question20:30
dhellmannmikal: +120:30
jgriffithttx: so why isn't the tempst gate tests our defcore test?20:31
markmcmikal, sure - I just don't think that's what we need to be going after right now20:31
lifelessso maybe we only certify /installs/ of OpenStack20:31
jgriffithttx: I mean, we define OpenStak by what we gate on20:31
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russellbttx: well can we give feedback to our resident board members?  :)20:31
sdaguejgriffith: realistically, I expect the defcore folks are going to lift tests from tempest20:31
markmcmikal, i.e. which is the best next baby step - firming up the "run the code" requirements or adding API testing requirements?20:31
lifelessand folk that are intermediaries can say that their installer gets you a certifiable OpenStack ?20:31
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dhellmannlifeless: the distros will want to use the trademark too20:31
sdaguebut lets take some concrete examples20:31
lifelessdhellmann: yes, and I support that20:31
mikalmarkmc: but is the board expecting this to be a baby step, or the final answer for several years?20:31
ttxrussellb: we can20:32
markmcttx, we can and should give our feedback20:32
jgriffithsdague: I would hope so, but I'm saying is this all being made much more complicated than it should be?20:32
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sdaguefor instance, tempest full doesn't pass on any of the hypervisors besides kvm (some pass almost all, but not quite all)20:32
dhellmannlifeless: me, too, but that means we need some way to certify the distros, no?20:32
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sdagueand it passes only about 60% if you have cells enabled20:32
jgriffithsdague: ahhh....  see where you're going20:32
lifelessdhellmann: problem is that a distro is an installer basically20:32
markmcmikal, our feedback could be "we'd prefer to focus our (the TC) energies right now on helping you with API testing - come back later on the other stuff"20:33
lifelessdhellmann: and installers can install both meets-requirements and doesn't-meet-requirements clouds20:33
ttxjgriffith: "we" don't define the trademark rules. The board does. We can voice our opinion, but that's about it20:33
lifelessdhellmann: so20:33
sdagueso that makes me scratch my head a bunch about what is Nova, if we consider all those options20:33
jgriffithsdague: so....  IMO you pair out what we gate on, thy Hypervisor things would have to be fixed if you want to run them and be "OpenStacK" cloud20:33
jgriffithttx: understood....20:33
ttxPersonally I'd rather have the TC stay away from trademark usage rules20:33
lifelessdhellmann: I don't think we can say 'you get the trademark only if ALL THE INSTALLS you do meet the requirements'20:33
mikalmarkmc: yes, but perhaps with a deadline? We ant to defer the other bit until the Juno release?20:33
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ttxwhich is why we separated integrated from core in the first place20:33
sdagueor decide for each project what is the actual API contract20:33
dhellmannlifeless: I don't think that's what I was suggesting20:33
jgriffithttx: but defining "code components" is what I'm still trying to get my head wrapped around20:33
lifelessdhellmann: instead, I think it has to be 'you get the trademark if your default meets the requirements'20:33
russellbttx: hard to stay away when tech details get wrapped up into defining it20:33
lifelessdhellmann: or something like that20:34
russellbttx: otherwise totally +120:34
dhellmannlifeless: +120:34
sdagueI think we've gone pretty heavy on optional API, and need to reconsider that if we want interop20:34
ttxrussellb: right. We can basically issue a statement saying this is not very convenient, and propose an alternate approach20:34
dhellmannsdague: +infinity20:34
markmcttx, yes, we want to stay away from trademark policy decisions - I agree20:34
russellbttx: fair20:34
ttxrussellb: but if they decide to ignore our statement, we'll have to give them the technical answers they are asking for20:34
ttxbecause I think we are better placed to answer them than they are20:35
lifelessso didn't we try this with plugins vs modules etc20:35
russellbyes, that's true.20:35
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lifelessand ended up with terrible verbiage20:35
markmcwe don't have to give the board answers :)20:35
ttxmarkmc: so you think we should pause and first propose an alternate approach ?20:35
markmc"this is a bad idea, we don't want to help" :)20:35
ttxmarkmc: sure. they will designate the code themselves then20:35
russellbmarkmc: that's kind of how i feel :(20:35
markmcI'm pretty certain if the consensus amongst us that this is a bad idea or not the right time20:35
markmcand that we should focus our efforts now on API testing20:36
jgriffithmarkmc: or how about "I can't help if you can't explain what you're trying to solve"20:36
markmcthe board would take that on ... uh ... board20:36
jgriffithmarkmc: because frankly I'm still unclear20:36
lifelessjgriffith: +120:36
dhellmannmarkmc: *groan*20:36
sdaguemarkmc: honestly, I'm also concerned that the parties driving this are basically part of orgs that don't give anything back (or much back) to the community as well20:36
annegentlecrazy idea, why not make the definition the docs rather than the code?20:36
lifelessIt seems to me that things like 'dont get the trademark if you rewrite in java' are better directly measured, rather than through awkward indirect means20:36
ttxmarkmc: at the very least we need to come up with an aswer detailing why we think it's a bad idea20:36
* annegentle has to ask20:36
markmcsdague, I'd prefer to assume good faith20:36
mikalannegentle: this is mostly about interop of deployments though20:37
sdaguebecause, honestly would some of this energy in defcore going into actually helping on test implementation20:37
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annegentlemikal: but you know how many software companies ensure legal contracts are bound by docs?20:37
dhellmannttx: let's provide those details then20:37
mikalannegentle: no20:37
ttxdo we have a volunteer to draft the TC response ("sounds like a bad idea") ?20:37
annegentlemikal: so it seems like a write up away from code might be the better discussion ground than the code itself20:37
sdagueand I think the fact that the vend diagram of people that work on the test tool chain for OpenStack have 0 overlap with the people working to define DefCore is probably a big part of the disconnect20:38
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lifelesssdague: venn ?20:38
jgriffithI suppose all of this falls  out if you say:  "Must use <project>/API code from release and pass API compat test20:38
sdaguelifeless: yes20:38
annegentlemikal: often software companies state in the contract where they sell the product that the product can only do what the docs say20:38
mikalttx: I think a review in governance would be a good way to do that20:38
annegentle(well, not sure if often is correct, that's rather vague)20:38
mikalannegentle: oh, ok20:38
jgriffithThat enforces what's "required" non-pluggable20:38
ttxmikal: sure. You still need to seed it with something20:38
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ttxmikal: looking for someone to lead that20:38
mikalttx: sure, I will draft something if no one else wants to20:39
annegentlejust wondering if the response is "code is too difficult to split in this way, let's try a document"20:39
dhellmannannegentle: the problem with natural language docs for enforcement is they are open to interpretation -- a test suite is not20:39
* russellb nominates markmc :-p20:39
annegentledhellmann: true that20:39
mikalmarkmc is the other obvious candidate, but I can work with him on something20:39
lifelessdhellmann: a test suite certainly is ... in that you can just fake the thing it talks too.20:39
markmcmikal, sounds good20:39
lifelessdhellmann: that is endemic in vendor interop efforts.20:39
jgriffithlifeless: +10000020:39
russellbmikal: markmc sounds great to me20:39
ttxWe basically need a DefCore delegate20:39
annegentlelifeless: good to know20:39
sdaguelifeless: sure, but it's at least easier for well intentioned players to do the right thing20:40
markmcttx, that would be good - especially if it wasn't me or monty20:40
mikalttx: I said at the HK board meeting I was happy to help them, they've never asked me for anything20:40
sdaguegamers are going to always find a way around20:40
mikalttx: so I stand by that20:40
mikalttx: I can draft something with markmc's input for next week20:40
russellbmikal: i support you in this endeavor.20:40
markmcttx, just sign up to the defcore-committee list, then20:40
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lifelesssdague: right, but if you look at e.g. http proxy bake offs, for decades now, every single commercial vendor targets the test suite specifically.20:40
markmcttx, meeting notifications go there ... mostly, I think20:40
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markmcmikal, ^^ that's to you20:40
lifelesssdague: we're going to see exacrly the same thing.20:40
ttxmikal: would you be willing to follow DefCore work and act as a TC interface there ? We badly need someone20:40
markmcmikal, I don't have any more insight into anything than what goes across that list20:40
mikalmarkmc: this is the first I've heard there's a list. I will give it a try20:41
mikalttx: sure20:41
markmcmikal, cool20:41
ttxmikal: awesome20:41
markmcmikal, http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/defcore-committee/20:41
mikalttx: until we find someone better...20:41
ttxmikal: thx for volunteering ;)20:41
annegentlego go mikal20:41
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sdaguelifeless: so what's your alternative?20:41
russellbmikal: ^5  gogogo20:41
sdagueyeh, thanks mikal20:41
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mikalI may yet rage quit, but I'll give it a go20:42
ttxbecause given my bandwidth, i'm inclined to provide them the answers they want just because I don't have time to follow or suggest better routes. (lame, I know)20:42
annegentlemikal: I'll subscribe to the list too and can be your backup20:42
annegentlettx: if that's ok20:42
mikalannegentle: thanks, I would love that20:42
lifelesssdague: I'm just saying, we can't use the test suite as a proxy metric for other things; what it exercises *exactly* will be covered, other things - like corner cases - may well be all over the shop.20:42
ttxas long as there is someone tracking that effort closely, I think we are good20:42
lifelesssdague: and it won't prevent the 'rewrite the plumbing' scenario on its own20:42
dhellmannmikal, annegentle: I've subscribed, too20:42
markmcttx, you think it's easier to get those answers?20:43
markmcttx, my assumption is we'll tie ourselves up in knots working out the answers?20:43
ttxmarkmc: it's compatible with my bandwidth.20:43
markmcttx, ahm ok :)20:43
dhellmannttx: let's let mikal have a chance20:43
mikalOk, on the list20:43
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ttxmarkmc: having TC delegates follow defcore and propose alternative solutions is 100x better20:43
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sdaguelifeless: it's better than not. At least those interfaces will be interoperable. Saying the problem is hard doesn't seem to me like a reason to throw in the towl20:43
lifelesssdague: I wasn't suggesting throwing in the towel20:44
lifelesssdague: I was answering '09:39 < dhellmann> annegentle: the problem with natural language docs for enforcement is they are open to interpretation -- a test suite is not20:44
zehicle_at_dellttx, I'm happy to have them join!20:44
ttxI know mikal feels strongly about this so I trust him to follow that closely :)20:44
lifelesssdague: which I read as a suggestion to use a test suite instead of english.20:44
lifelesssdague: which is iMO a mistake - its not either-or, its both.20:44
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russellbif tenant == testing: do_the_thing_it_expects() else: do_the_thing_we_want()20:44
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russellbtests not foolproof solution either :)20:45
lifelessrussellb: exactly :(20:45
lifelessrussellb: thats my point20:45
russellbbut a good step forward20:45
mikallifeless: do you have an alternate solution though?20:45
ttxzehicle: I think having clear TC delegates will help solving the communication issues we had in the past20:45
sdaguesure, I'm not saying they are. I'm saying they are a good first step20:45
zehicle_at_dellplease let us know who is going to join, yes20:45
lifelessmikal: the test suite is a good thing to have.20:45
sdagueand it moves everything in the right direction20:45
jeblairrussellb: right so the thing is that we would not merge code that does that20:45
lifelessmikal: prose saying what we mean is a good thing to have.20:45
annegentleand for docs I was not really thinking of narrative but of reference docs like API docs, config reference, etc.20:45
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lifelessmikal: I think we should have both.20:45
russellbjeblair: not upstream, but downstream there could be ... i'm being extreme20:45
annegentleto try to get closer to "truth"20:45
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jeblairrussellb: which is why i think that the "you must run openstack" is the stronger part of this20:45
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lifelessjeblair: +1 exactly20:46
mikalzehicle_at_dell: I'm going to draft a quick email explaining our plan to that list after this meeting20:46
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ttx#agreed mikal will act as TC interface to follow the DefCore effort and channel TC views. with annegentle as substitute20:46
russellbsaying you must run it, sure, defining it in a lot of detail sounds like a rat hole i'm not sure we'll get out of20:46
* ttx feels better about this20:46
ttxmore on this, or can we jump on the next topic ?20:47
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ttxor is that jump to ?20:47
sdaguevote jump20:47
annegentlettx: jump!20:47
* russellb jumps20:47
ttx#topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Nova20:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Nova (Meeting topic: tc)"20:47
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026450.html20:47
ttxrussellb: you jumped20:47
jeblairrussellb: jump back20:48
ttxAs we raise requirements for new incubating projects, it was suggested that we should review existing integrated projects to make sure there was a plan to cover any gap20:48
* dhellmann wonders if russellb has jumper's remorse20:48
* russellb jumps back quickly20:48
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ttxI suggested we started the process with projects where the PTL is also a TC member: Nova, Cinder, Neutron20:48
ttxrussellb: did you prepare an answer for Nova yet ?20:48
russellbso, nova meetup this week means i haven't had a chance to write up an analysis of Nova vs requirements20:48
russellbi did not :(20:48
ttxno biggie, I have another topic up my sleeve20:48
russellbok, yeah, let's start that next week20:49
russellbunless another project is ready20:49
ttxjgriffith, markmcclain: you shall be next, so plan to prepare that in the coming weeks20:49
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ttx#topic Minor governance changes20:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:49
* markmcclain can't wait to write the duplicated functionality paragraph20:49
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ttxmarkmc: I know, right20:49
ttx* Add some REST API graduation requirements (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/68258/)20:49
ttxthat was markmcclain, not markmc20:50
ttxSo.. on that one... Had a question there about requiring API stability at graduartion time vs. art release time20:50
markmcttx, I'll mark as WIP - I think these should be "after graduation, before first release" as you say20:50
markmcttx, which would be a new section20:50
ttxmarkmc: looks like we need one yes20:50
annegentlettx: and I wondered about "stability for which version of the API" and timing of that stability20:50
ttxBUT note that we don't review stuff between graduation and release. That happens automatically20:50
russellbhard to enforce that, but at least good for setting clear expectations20:51
ttxi.e. once we said "you will be in the next release", it would take a pretty bad event to make us not follow up on that20:51
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NobodyCamwould this be a good time to a graduation question?20:51
ttxbecause we communicate a lot around that20:51
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ttxNobodyCam: wait for open discussion20:51
markmcttx, yeah20:51
ttxand we invest a lot around that20:51
markmcttx, I guess at graduation, we're just looking for a commitment20:51
ttxmarkthere is still value in detailing the post-graduation tasks20:52
lifelessI think we need to separate out 'stable' vs 'finished' - nova is on v3 for instance20:52
lifelessthings evolve20:52
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dhellmannmarkmc: is there any reason not to hold graduation until a 1.0 API is complete?20:52
ttxdamn my markcompletion powers are broken today20:52
markmcdhellmann, just that we've not done it before20:52
dhellmannwe've not had most of these guidelines before, right?20:53
ttxmarkmc: example post-grad tasks would be: get into horizon proper20:53
markmcttx, yeah20:53
ttxmarkmc: so feel free to add them to the doc20:53
sdaguemarkmc: have we had a project release without a 1.0 API in the past?20:53
markmcdhellmann, I think we're mostly just documenting existing expectations and firming up them a little20:53
ttxdhellmann: rigth, but I think we commit to supporting the API at release time, not really before20:53
markmcdhellmann, stable API would be quite new20:53
markmcttx, add them back you mean20:54
markmcsdague, we're talking about graduation, not release20:54
sdagueoh, right20:54
ttxdhellmann: in particular, if integration with other projects creates a need, that should be adressable in the initial API version, not a second one20:54
dhellmannttx: good point20:54
russellbmikal asked a good question on the review20:55
ttxdhellmann: what we want for graduation is a pretty-compete APi. Not a stable one20:55
mikalYes, I am smart20:55
russellbwhat if we have a project that we want to be integrated, but doesn't need a REST API20:55
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mikalrussellb: or an API at all20:55
russellbdeal with that as an exception if/when it comes up?20:55
ttxrussellb: could you make up an example ?20:55
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russellbgantt in theory ... we may want to use rpc only for that20:55
ttxrussellb: yeah, exceptions ftw20:55
russellbexceptions is a reasonable answer for me20:55
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markmcwell, I think we've always said that incubation is for "server projects"20:56
ttxthose rules are moving grounds anyway20:56
markmcwhich imply API20:56
mikalOr we could just word this differently20:56
mikal"If the project exposes an API..."20:56
markmcand an inter-project RPC API would be a new thing20:56
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markmcthink we'd want the TC to vet that20:56
russellbyeah, *punt*20:56
russellbdeal with it if/when it comes20:56
russellbgantt nowhere near anything we need to review here20:56
ttxAll the other governance changes, i'll approve when they reach enough approvals:20:56
ttx* Add a requirement for deprecating duplicated code (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/)20:56
ttx* Add missed mission statement for Data Processing (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71045/)20:56
ttx* add identity mission statement (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71271/)20:57
ttx* Oslo program changes (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72335/)20:57
ttxUnless someone has a comment about those, we can move to open discussion ?20:57
SergeyLukjanovttx, "mission statement for Data Processing" needs one more iteration on my side20:57
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: sure, but I don't think it needs to be re-discussed at a TC meeting20:57
SergeyLukjanovttx, yup, just wording20:58
ttxso we can go on and approve it once it reaches the approvals on the review20:58
ttx#topic Open discussion20:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:58
ttxWe're still missing a number of mission statements20:58
ttx(object store, image service, dashboard, networking, block storage, telemetry, orchestration, infrastructure)20:58
markmcNobodyCam, ^^^20:58
ttxWould be good if the TC members could lead by example here, before we start chasing the individual PTLs20:58
NobodyCamquickly: graduation question: are items like the nova driver (which are mainly out of our control) and migration scripts required to land for projects like Ironic to graduate?20:58
ttxSo jeblair, markmcclain, jgriffith: would be great if you could propose a mission statement addition to the governance repo20:58
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russellbNobodyCam: yes20:58
russellbNobodyCam: there is a governance change up for review that covers this20:59
mikalNobodyCam: I frel like the nova driver would meet the "deprecated code removal" test20:59
markmcclainttx: ack20:59
russellbNobodyCam: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/20:59
russellbvery much applies to the ironic case20:59
jeblairttx: will do20:59
markmcrussellb, might be good to clarify your exact expectations e.g. around dates20:59
markmcrussellb, it's getting tight20:59
NobodyCamack :)20:59
ttxmarkmcclain, jeblair: cool, thx20:59
jeblairttx: i believe the wiki has the statement that the tc approved, i will push that.20:59
russellbwell ... before we do graduation review?20:59
mikalWhat happens in the ironic case if they fall out of the hypervisor support matrix and get deprecated?20:59
ttxjeblair: ack20:59
annegentlettx: how much of a requirement is it for a project considering incubation to have a program decided upon? Is that a hard requirement for a review?20:59
mikalDoes that imply unintegrating ironic?20:59
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NobodyCamThank you21:00
mikalCause that ties the nova team's hands on driver quality...21:00
markmcrussellb, more about freeze date for the driver, what you need to deprecate the old baremetal stuff in this release21:00
ttxannegentle: an incubated project needs to be covered by a program yes, it's one of the requirements21:00
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ttxannegentle: if none existing, would create a new one21:00
jeblairmikal: i don't believe ironic is integrated; it is in incubation.21:00
markmcrussellb, perhaps it's obvious, but no harm in spelling it out - I think there's confusion21:00
annegentlettx: but if they are not sure which to apply under, can that be part of the discussion?21:00
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annegentlettx: ok that's helpful too21:00
mikaljeblair: usre, this is a future thing21:00
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russellbmarkmc: i guess i've largely been relying on the ironic folks on this21:01
ttxannegentle: we just make the team official, basically.21:01
annegentlettx: just wasn't sure if it's a push or pull (programs recruiting vs. projects looking for a home)21:01
ttxok, no time left21:01
lifelessboth ?21:01
mikalThanks peoples21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 11 21:01:23 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-11-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-11-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-11-20.01.log.html21:01
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ttxtight as always21:01
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* dhellmann gets back in line to ride again21:01
ttxlong gone are the days where we had a TC meeting every 3 weeks21:01
ttxok, next up21:02
ttxdhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: around ?21:02
morganfainbergdhellmann, wheeeeeee meeting ride line starts here?21:02
dhellmannmorganfainberg: you can cut in front of me21:02
morganfainbergttx, o/ standingin for dolphm is he isn't here21:02
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ttxmorganfainberg: cool21:02
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ttx#startmeeting project21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 11 21:02:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:02
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:02
ttxShould be a short one21:02
ttx(famous last words)21:02
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markwashI object!21:03
ttx#topic icehouse-3 progress21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-3 progress (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
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ttxFalling slightly behind, not enough stuff gets final reviews and gets "implemented"21:03
ttxWe need to get as much stuff in this week as possible. next week we have the feature proposal freeze21:03
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ttxSo a lot of new reviews will end up being posted. better get what is ready in now.21:03
ttx#topic 2013.2.2 stable release21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "2013.2.2 stable release (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
ttxapevec: around ?21:03
lifelessttx: uhm, isn't that exactly the batching we're trying to avoid by the freezes ?21:04
lifelessttx: so you're encouraging that which we don't want? :)21:04
apevecttx, so first I want to hear from folks what they think about stable/havana gate is it ok?21:04
ttxlifeless: i'm encouraging pushing code in this week, rather than next week :)21:04
lifelessttx: still, long way off steady-state smooth progress :(21:04
sdagueapevec: what's the neutron job fail rate there?21:04
sdagueI thought I saw a lot of jobs failing on it21:05
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apevecafaict it's good enough, only known waiting for ...thing and ssh timeouts popped up during last few recheks21:05
apevecall known on master too21:05
apevecalso nw_info cache21:05
apevecall sporadic, I got exceptions merged today21:05
apevecre. execptions I've only keystone one left: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/Ida39b4699ed6c568609a5121573fc3be5c4ab2f4,n,z21:06
apevecmorganfainberg, ^^^21:06
apevecwill that be able to merge today?21:06
morganfainbergapevec, trying to get the master one finalized21:06
morganfainbergapevec, i hope so21:06
apevecafaict it's still waiting on master reviews?21:06
apevecmorganfainberg, ok thanks21:06
markmcclainapevec: I neutron havana is back to the normal for stable21:06
morganfainbergapevec, yes, i will chase keystone folks down after this and get it done today21:06
morganfainbergapevec, so we can have stable one in sync w/ what goes into master21:06
apevecmorganfainberg, excellent!21:07
apevecI hope we don't have any more exception requests?21:07
apevecthere were few proposed, but I think all remaining can wait .321:07
ttxapevec: what about that grenade stable/havana upgrade-horizon thing ? Do you need it in, or can it wait ?21:07
apevecttx, looks like we somehow are passing w/o it21:08
ttxapevec: we can't +2 it apparently so... good news21:08
apevecdunno, need s/b who knows grenade to look why :)21:08
ttxapevec: no securty fix lined up except that glance one you approved recently21:08
apevecif no more exception, I'm good to release  on Thu21:08
apevecyep, public one for glance is merged21:09
sdagueapevec: so that issue was always transient in grenade, so I'm not sure missing upgrade-horizon was actually the issue21:09
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apevecsdague, so root cause is unclear?21:09
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apevecok, we can continue discussion in review or stable-maint if anyone wishes21:10
apevecttx, that's it from me unless there are questions?21:10
* ttx lags badly21:11
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apevecwho is real ttx now?21:12
ttx_there is lagged_ttx and unlagged_ttx_21:12
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ttx_apevec: all set ?21:13
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ttx#topic Migration out of LP Answers to Ask21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Migration out of LP Answers to Ask (Meeting topic: project)"21:13
ttxis reed around ?21:13
SergeyLukjanovttx_, I read it first as "tagged ttx" and "untagged ttx"21:13
* SergeyLukjanov needs more coffee21:13
ttxprobably not, i'll proxy him21:14
ttxLP answers are ready to be migrated to Ask: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026563.html21:14
stevebakercan LP Answers be switched off?21:14
dhellmannthat's the plan, right?21:14
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ttxstevebaker: I think so yes21:15
stevebaker+1 then21:15
jeblairi think doing so might hide the old answers, which is why it hasn't been done yet21:15
hub_caphorray :)21:15
ttxstevebaker: you just end up losing access to questions I think, which is why we wanted migration first21:15
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dhellmannjeblair: yes, that's my understanding, too21:15
ttx"Any PTL opposing it? Is @reed authorized to reconfigure LP projects to point to Ask for support?"21:15
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ttxI think we are all set and reed can flip the switch21:16
ttxI saw notmyname blessing the switch too, and I know swift was the project that made the most use of LP answers as a knowledge base tool21:16
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ttxso we are a go, I guess21:16
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annegentlecongrats on the migration! Good work.21:17
ttx#info reed can migrate answers and reconfigure LP projects to point to Ask for support21:17
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ttx#topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints21:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)"21:17
ttxAny inter-project blocked work that this meeting could help unblock ?21:18
ttxtryin to avoid last-minute surprises, like projects depending on some other project work that will never happen21:18
ttx(that happened before)21:18
ttxor is everyone totally unblocked ?21:19
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ttxI guess everyone is21:20
ttx#topic Incubated projects21:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)"21:20
ttxSergeyLukjanov, NobodyCam, flaper87: o/21:20
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ttxlet's do savanna first21:20
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SergeyLukjanovttx, https://launchpad.net/savanna/+milestone/icehouse-321:20
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: at first glance that looks a bit behind21:21
ttxalso your targeted bug list could use more assignees21:21
SergeyLukjanovttx, probably, have several large patch packs on review21:21
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SergeyLukjanovttx, will clean it up again21:21
ttxSergeyLukjanov: ack21:21
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: do you have any work to complete before graduation review ?21:22
SergeyLukjanovttx, I think everythng is done21:22
SergeyLukjanovwe're working on renaming, but it looks like it's not a requirement21:22
ttxSergeyLukjanov: ok, cool21:22
ttxSergeyLukjanov: yeah, it's more of a "less pain to do it early" thing21:23
ttxflaper87: o/21:23
flaper87ttx: o/21:23
flaper87ttx: https://launchpad.net/marconi/+milestone/icehouse-321:23
SergeyLukjanovttx, I'll re-iterate over the list of requirements tomorrow and send the follow-up to tc ml21:23
ttxflaper87: you should probably have assignees for every blueprint at this point21:23
flaper87sooo, it may seem we're way behind, truth is that some of those are likely to be re-targeted21:23
ttxSergeyLukjanov: +121:23
flaper87ttx: correct, we've been working on that, still some work left though21:24
ttxflaper87: the "essential" stuff is the graduation stuff, right ?21:24
flaper87ttx: exactly21:24
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flaper87our main focus is on the sqlalchemy backend and enabling marconi's gate21:24
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flaper87that's in a way better shape that it was lsat week, TBH21:24
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kgriffsthe v1.1 api stuff is the most likely to get retargeted, fwiw21:25
ttxkgriffs: yeah, focus on the essential bits at this point21:25
ttxso probably time to cut in the objectives21:25
ttxNobodyCam / devananda ?21:26
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ttxNobodyCam: https://launchpad.net/ironic/+milestone/icehouse-321:26
* devananda is lurking, but groggy post-dentist appt21:26
ttxNobodyCam: is all the stuff needed for graduation marked "essential" there ?21:27
NobodyCamnova drivr is not there21:27
devanandattx: quick question regarding https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/2/reference/incubation-integration-requirements21:28
NobodyCamalso add Neutron support so that Ironic can appropriately forward DHCP BOOT requests has landed21:28
ttxNobodyCam: feel free to update status21:28
NobodyCamso that need to be updated21:28
ttxyou look in good shape overall21:28
ttxtargeted bugs could use more assignees, but overall looks good21:28
ttxdevananda: ask21:28
devanandattx: our migration-from-nova tool is not there, and teh new nova-ironic driver is coming along, but we don't control when it lands (in nova)21:28
devanandattx: are those pre-graduation conditions, or post-graduation part of "integrate with all the other projects in Juno" things?21:29
ttxdevananda: I think russellb just said pre-grad, but I think for pre-grad i would ask that the code exists as a separate driver21:29
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ttxdevananda: with the task of getting it in nova mainline as an early post-grad, integration task21:30
devanandak, that should be fine21:30
* ttx reads TC scrollback21:30
devanandayea, i need to go read the minutes -- been out of it all morning :(21:31
russellbbasically, check out the proposed change for the governance repo related to deprecated code21:31
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russellband then let me know what questions remain21:31
russellbso i can help clarify my view21:32
russellbi think code should be in nova mainline pre-grad21:32
russellband a written migration plan21:32
NobodyCamthank you russellb :)21:32
devanandarussellb: ok, so landing the ironic driver pre-grad21:33
dhellmann#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70389/21:33
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ttxrussellb: it's a bit of chicken-and-egg though. You don't have the incentive to approve their code until they are integrated21:33
devanandaour deprecate-baremetal BP is marked "Low"21:33
devananda#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/deprecate-baremetal-driver21:33
russellbttx: i think we don't have incentive to review it, there's a bigger problem21:33
ttxrussellb: fair21:34
russellbtiming is rough right now21:34
russellbend of cycle overload21:34
russellbbut we should prioritize it21:34
ttxrussellb: so you'd have a driver in icehouse release for a not-yet-integrated project21:34
devanandaalso, AIUI, the first cycle post-graduation is when the other integrated projects aer suppored to integraete back with the new projects21:34
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russellbttx: yes21:34
ttxrussellb: ok21:34
devanandaso that seems like the right time for eg. Nova to work with us on that patchset21:34
russellbttx: but i think we do project integrations during incubation elsewhere right?21:35
devanandawe're lookign at ceilometer integration in juno for that very reason21:35
ttxrussellb: sounds like something we could grant a FFe for though. Sufficiently self-contained ?21:35
russellbthat's the "focus on integratoin" period21:35
russellbttx: yes21:35
russellbassuming it's self contained21:35
ttxrussellb: especially if it didn't go in for review bandwidth reasons21:35
devanandarussellb: right. so why require nova to integrate with ironic pre-graduation?21:35
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russellbbecause i think graduation is the critical checkpoint21:36
russellband we have to be *sure* that it's ready21:36
russellband ready == merged21:36
ttxdevananda: basically, you move functionality around, and that adds additional contraints, linked to deprecation21:37
ttxdevananda: while integration with ceilo or horizon is just additional feature21:37
NobodyCambut if we arn't getting input on the reviews how can we land in time21:37
russellbrelated ... neutron was integrated with the assumption we were almost ready to deprecate nova-network21:37
russellbseveral releases later ...21:37
russellbwe screwed up.21:37
russellbwe can't let that happen again21:37
russellbthat's why i feel strongly about this21:37
devanandarussellb: that's fair21:37
ttxNobodyCam: well, you need nova coorperation to move functionality out of nova, that's for sure21:37
ttxNobodyCam: so it's great you raised that issue here21:38
ttxto make sure we are aligned, at release level, on the priority for this21:38
devanandarussellb: so given we're half way through I3, the ironic code sprint is at the end of I3 and that's probably when we'll make the most significant progress on the nova driver21:38
russellbsounds like FFE is most likely path then21:39
devanandarussellb: if being a bullet proof replacement for baremetal driver is essential to graduation21:39
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devanandaand having a migration tool os also a req21:39
devanandathen yea, either FFE or we won' make it in Icehouse21:39
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ttxdevananda: i suspect making it better than the current nova-bm driver is not really the same as making it "bulletproof" though21:40
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devanandattx: bm driver has ~1yr of bug fixes from production use21:40
russellbthat's the risk of starting over21:40
russellbit's not a quick process21:40
devanandaironic has incorporated some of those, but will certainly have new bugs21:41
russellbcan't call it done until it's done :)21:41
ttxdevananda: ah. last I heard from it it was unusable. How time flies21:41
devanandaright :)21:41
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devanandattx: heh. lifeless could probably tell you just how usable it is ;)21:41
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ttxdevananda: make sure the driver is self-contained, so that adding it post-FF is not a dnager to anything else21:42
devanandathere are related changes that we're doing now21:42
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devanandasmall things21:42
devanandalike moving bits of libvirt code that we need into a common area21:42
devanandaso we dont reach into nova.drivers.libvirt :)21:42
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devanandaand adding a new HostManager21:42
ttxdevananda: ok21:43
ttx#topic Open discussion21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)"21:43
ttxanything else, anyone ?21:43
NobodyCamTy all!21:43
ttxyay, early meeting finish21:44
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:44
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 11 21:44:11 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:44
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openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-11-21.02.html21:44
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-11-21.02.txt21:44
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