Tuesday, 2014-02-25

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open_metplease any one help me to configure the backup for the openstack multi-node13:01
open_metplease suggest me any method to configure the backup13:02
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sc68calGood morning14:01
xuhanpgood morning14:01
sc68cal#startmeeting neutron_ipv614:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 14:02:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6'14:02
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sc68cal#topic recap last meetings actions14:02
*** openstack changes topic to "recap last meetings actions (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:02
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sc68cal#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-18-14.00.html14:02
sc68calSo - the only actions we had for last week was for me to refresh the review14:03
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sc68cal#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/52983/14:03
sc68calI have a new patchset that adds the validation of combos, and updates the alembic script14:03
xuhanpseems like we need another upgrade14:04
sc68calI plan on pushing it to gerrit today - I just want to make sure I don't have any silly mistakes that forces me to spam gerrit with little fixes ;)14:04
sc68callike pep8, etc...14:04
shshangHi, guys14:05
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sc68cal#topic code review14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "code review (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:05
sc68calWe have a bit of happy news to report14:05
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sc68calthe neutron VIF hairpin patch has landed in Nova14:06
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sc68cal#info merge window for I-3 is March 4th14:07
aveigathat is way too close14:07
sc68calI believe the next high priority patch is xuhanp's patch that limits the scope of RAs allowed to ports14:07
xuhanpsc68cal, is there any way to speed up the current reviews?  I also  have the client code submitted yesterday based on the two mode design14:08
sc68calxuhanp: that's great - do you have a link to the client code review?14:08
xuhanpyes. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75871/14:09
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xuhanpJenkins fails because your code is not merged yet.14:09
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xuhanpfor the RA security group patch, I opened a bug and submitted code review to address baoli's comment14:10
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xuhanpbut the approach is debatable14:10
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xuhanp#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/14:10
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baolixuhanp, I saw that14:10
xuhanphope that can speed up the process to address your comment, baoli14:11
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dane_leblancxuhanp, maybe marking the other bug as a dependency would get jenkins to pass? https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gerrit_Workflow#Add_dependency14:11
xuhanpdane_leblanc, I didn't know we can do that for two projects. Can we?14:12
sc68calI don't know if it works cross project either.14:12
dane_leblancD'oh, I don't think so.14:12
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sc68calwould be very helpful :)14:12
baolixuhanp, my only concern is this: the gateway address is used to establish (default) route. But in the case of ipv6, it's used to create a iptables rule which has a specific requirement on the address.14:12
xuhanpbaoli, any suggestion to address this?14:13
baolixuhanp, maybe it should be explicitly addressed by the security group API?14:13
aveigabaoli: do you have a use case where this is an issue?14:14
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baoliwell, I just felt that it's not a proper way to do so as xuhanp indicated it's debatable14:15
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baoliI haven't be able to spend time on the security group api last week.14:15
aveigaso for the sake of working v6 in icehouse, can we push it through and file a bug against it to pull it back to SG API for Juno?14:16
sc68calMy concern is that the -1 is preventing this review from being seen by core14:16
sc68calthey usually filter reviews that have a -114:16
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baoliI can give a +114:16
sc68calperfect - thank you14:17
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sc68calAny new blueprints?14:18
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baoliAnother concern is that the routing guideline/principle requires that the gateway ip is on the same subnet. Does it apply to IPv6 as well?14:18
aveigabaoli: I think we covered this before, perhaps on the ML?14:18
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aveigaSomeone brought that up and I showed them the use case of GUA subnet but LLA gateway14:19
xuhanpbaoli, this is allowed if you set the con right.14:19
aveigathey were OK with it14:19
xuhanpcon -> conf14:19
aveigayeah, there's a flag to set gateway on link14:19
aveigasc68cal: what's the default value?14:19
xuhanpbut the router interface attach will fail. That's my second link is about.14:19
xuhanpaveiga, false14:19
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sc68calthankfully false - I think we have you to partially thank for that aveiga ?14:19
aveigaxuhanp: I think the router attach code might need to be updated.  Ideally you'd want the router to have two addresses14:20
sc68calI think you were able to slam the breaks on them setting it to true, if I recall correctly the ML thread14:20
aveigaone on-link and one LLA14:20
aveigasc68cal: yeah, though I'm not the reason it was already false :014:20
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xuhanpcurrently my change #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/ is just allow LLA be attached to router.14:21
baoliin order for the RA rule to work, the bug xuhanp just submitted need to be approved as well.14:21
aveigaso THAT can be set as a dep in gerrit14:21
aveigasince they're both neutron14:21
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xuhanpaveiga, you mean I set the security rule to be dependent on my new patch?14:22
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aveigaset the LLA router as a dependency for the RA filter14:23
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xuhanpOK. I need to check if two addresses works for current code. I doubt that.14:23
xuhanpso if two addresses are allow, Which one will the dnsmasq be spawned on?14:24
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sc68calIt might be useful to open a blueprint to capture the two addresses on a router interface14:24
aveigashould be on LLA14:24
aveigasince the RA MUST come from LLA14:24
xuhanpso shshang's code need to check that?14:24
aveigasc68cal: +114:24
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aveigaxuhanp: I don't think so.  They should technically be on the same namespace14:24
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xuhanpsc68cal, can we still do blueprints in icehouse?  I thought the deadline for blueprints is gone.14:25
aveigayou can still add one.  We don't necessarily need the GUA on the router at this time14:25
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sc68cal^ +114:26
aveigait's recommend to route via LLA anyway14:26
aveigajust set it for J14:26
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sc68cal#topic docs & wiki14:28
*** openstack changes topic to "docs & wiki (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:28
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sc68calSo, since we're making good progress on the code side of things, we should probably look into updating documentation and the wiki14:29
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sc68cal#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Neutron/IPv614:29
aveigaI can take a crack at that14:29
aveigathe Neutron docs are going to need some serious updating to provide examples and documentation for what we're changing here14:30
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sc68calI plan to do some developer doc as well14:31
aveigaI can take an AI to collect a list of Neutron docs that need changing.  I'm going to be away next week, so give me some time to take this one on14:31
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sc68calaveiga: OK - if you're going to be away we don't have to do an AI, I'll just make it part of our routine14:32
sc68calto talk about docs14:32
sc68calI don't think I have anything else, so I'm ready to turn to open discussion14:32
sc68cal#topic open discussion14:33
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baolione more thing about xuhanp's new bug: with neutron subnet-create --ipv6 --gateway LLA, it needs to make sure that the router port is created with the LLA and an Ipv6 address from the subnet. Does it make sense?14:35
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aveigabaoli: that's what xuhanp was talking about with a BP for two addresses on a router14:36
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xuhanpyeah. Currently, I just allow to make the gateway as LLA and create a port with that.14:37
baoliaveiga, xuhanp, ok.14:37
xuhanpI am not limiting the gateway port to LLA14:37
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baolixuhanp, I need to take a close look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/1/neutron/db/db_base_plugin_v2.py. But would that change apply to all the fixed_ips to be added?14:46
xuhanpit will be apply to gateway attach but not port create14:47
xuhanpif I checked that correctly14:47
xuhanpthe if else branches are very complicated there.14:48
xuhanpand I did some tests but not sure if I cover them all.14:48
xuhanpby port create I mean the "normal" port create.14:49
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aveigaquestion here, since I don't fully know how the code works: doesn't namespace creation automatically get you a LLA address?14:50
baolixuhanp, ok. I might find some time to check on that with your patch14:51
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xuhanpaveiga, you mean the dnsmasq can automatically send RA from qr device's LLA?14:52
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baoliaveiga, so far, I have seen that a LLA is automatically assigned with ipv6 enabled on a port.14:52
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aveigaI'm saying that on port creation for the router, just use the GUA14:52
aveigait's valid, but dnsmasq will still issue the RA from the LLA14:53
aveigaand you can use your existing code that derives the LLA for Horizon to set the RA filter14:53
aveigathat gets you a GUA on the router creation, but valid LLA-derived RAs14:53
xuhanpso does the GUA has to be on the subnet's cir?14:53
aveigayeah, it would be a regular addr14:54
aveigaper baoli's request that we have an on-subnet addr for the router in some instances14:54
xuhanpthat I think that will work by the current code.14:54
aveigawould still be valid, technically14:54
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xuhanpso will there be an use case that subnet is using regular address and still use the LLA as gateway.14:55
xuhanpjust trying to confirm that my change has a valid use case.14:56
aveigayou will always use the LLA as the gateway14:56
aveigathat's where the RAs come from14:56
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aveigaand by gateway I mean default route14:56
xuhanpoh. Yeah. sorry. I confused that with the router port.14:56
aveigaI think it will still work for now14:57
aveigawe might need to add a data structure for Juno to keep the LLA stored with the Router data14:57
aveigaor derive it when needed14:57
sc68calNeutron port objects have the fixed_ip field, which can have multiple entries14:57
aveigait may come up for things like LBaaS and FWaaS14:57
aveigawell, there you go14:57
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aveigathe router port just has an extra fixed for the LLA14:58
sc68caldzyu's patch did just that, for the EUI64 addrs14:58
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sc68calSadly, we are out of time14:59
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sc68calThanks everyone for joining - long live ipv6!14:59
sc68calsee everyone next week!14:59
xuhanpsee you guys15:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 15:00:23 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-25-14.02.html15:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-25-14.02.txt15:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-02-25-14.02.log.html15:00
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n0ano#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 15:00:45 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
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n0anoanyone here to talk abou the scheduler (or did I scare everyone off :-)15:01
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mspreitzI am here15:01
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n0ano#topic opens15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:02
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n0anoAs I said, I don't have any set agenda (I was off sick all last week), anything you guys want to talk about?15:02
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bauzaswe agreed on plan B the previous week15:03
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bauzasthere is a blueprint for task #115:03
bauzasI would like to contribute to task #2, is there any BP ?15:04
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bauzasand if so, we should amend the etherpad :)15:04
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bauzasI know we're in FeatureFreeze15:04
bauzassorry, FeatureProposalFreeze15:04
n0anonot that I know of, if you have ideas you can add to the etherpad or, if you feel ambitious, add a BP for that15:05
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n0anoI think the reality is that this work is going to be for Juno, we've pretty much missed the Icehous window by now15:05
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bauzasn0ano: ok, I'll see if I can fill in some details within another etherpad15:05
johnthetubaguyyeah, its juno now for this stuff15:06
bauzasn0ano: yup, we all know :)15:06
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n0anoso I'm not too concerned about timing issues, we just do things as quick as we can15:06
johnthetubaguyare we all happy with the approach now?15:06
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bauzasI'm fine with it15:06
johnthetubaguyI think its a good approach15:06
johnthetubaguyeven after sleeping on it15:06
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n0anomy only concern is that we make progress on it, just `cleaning up nova' is easy to push off for another day15:07
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bauzasas gantt is not nova, I think we could still work on delivering a library15:07
johnthetubaguywell, I think thats when we make the split though?15:07
johnthetubaguythat forces that one, once we get very close15:07
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n0anoit looks like comleteing both task 1 and 2 is when we can do the true split15:08
bauzasIMHO, there are 2 things which can be done while the Nova freze15:08
bauzas1/ do the cleanup of nova calls within Gantt15:09
bauzas2/ provide an external library for the resource tracker15:09
johnthetubaguyyou can get the patches up while we are frozen, but the idea of being frozen is to get bugs fixed15:09
bauzasboth are within Gantt's scope15:09
n0anojohnthetubaguy, +115:10
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johnthetubaguyOK, so any more for today then?15:12
n0anonot from me15:12
johnthetubaguydo you want to raise blueprints for the scheduler lib?15:12
mspreitzone procedural issue15:12
johnthetubaguyjust so its tracked?15:12
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mspreitzDoes any wiki page point to the archive of these meetings?15:12
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I can handle it15:12
n0anomspreitz, yes15:13
johnthetubaguybauzas: cool, I ping me when you want it approving, etc15:13
n0ano#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/15:13
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: well OK15:13
mspreitzwhat wiki page points there?15:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: that will be matter of collecting all info15:13
johnthetubaguybauzas: which info?15:13
n0anocool meeting, bauzas got all the ARs15:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: and writing the rationale15:13
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johnthetubaguyOK, I don't mind drafting something quick, if that helps?15:14
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: do you prefer me to quickly draft something then ?15:14
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: because I was preferring to write a wikipage15:14
Yathialso regarding the gantt split work and if any blueprints require owners please include me i volunteer15:14
mspreitzn0ano: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Scheduler does not point to the gantt meetings15:14
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: but the first one should also good to me :)15:14
johnthetubaguybauzas: OK, I was hoping to keep it short really15:14
n0anomspreitz, my bad, I changed the meeting name and didn't update the meetings wiki with that info, I'll fix it15:14
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: well, OK, will do then15:15
n0anoOK, bauzas does all the work, anything else today?15:15
johnthetubaguybauzas: does "Create Scheduler Python Library" work OK?15:16
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: +115:16
johnthetubaguycool, thanks15:16
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johnthetubaguyI will fill it out, feel free to jump on it with ideas15:17
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: ok, will do15:17
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bauzasto all, do we consider patching oslo.config for managing different projects ?15:19
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bauzasthat's something I began to work on15:19
johnthetubaguybauzas: doesn't seem worth it right now15:19
johnthetubaguybauzas: gnatt should have its own config right? it can just match what nova has today, I assume?15:19
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n0anobauzas, as a separate effort maybe, don't see how we should depend upon that for this work15:20
n0anojohnthetubaguy, +115:20
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: well, that's pretty hard to import both nova and gantt15:20
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I was thinking it as some way to ease the move15:20
johnthetubaguybauzas: but with the cleaner split, it should "just work" TM15:20
n0anobauzas, what do you mean, I though everybody already included oslo.config15:20
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: agree15:20
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bauzasn0ano: I mean that all registered opts are duplicated in between Gantt and Nova because of the same scope15:21
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bauzasn0ano: there is one global cfg object15:21
* erecio slaps erecio around a bit with a large trout15:21
johnthetubaguyand two config files15:21
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bauzaswith possibly same opt names :)15:22
bauzasand groups15:22
n0anodo we want to create a gantt config name space or would that be too much of a change15:22
bauzasnah, I think it's oslo.config duty to handle different namespaces15:22
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Yathishouldnt be hard to change the code everywhere to include a new namespace15:23
n0anoI believe it does, the problem is, right now, you'd have nova & gantt defining the same names in the same name space, oslo.config gets upset about that15:23
bauzasn0ano: yup, and here is why I'm proposing to focus on that side15:23
bauzasn0ano: I'm facing same issue with climate-nova15:24
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bauzasn0ano: the workaround is to deregister all opts from one project, but that's hard to manage15:24
n0anothe simple solution is to just create a new name space, be it gantt or climate, but that is a user visible change15:24
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johnthetubaguyhang on15:25
johnthetubaguyin gantt, it will be in gantt.conf15:25
johnthetubaguyin nova its in nova.conf15:25
johnthetubaguyand gnatt will never access anything in nova.conf15:25
johnthetubaguyand nova will not access anything in gantt.conf15:25
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johnthetubaguyor am I missing something here?15:25
n0anojohnthetubaguy, so you are proposing a user visible change, the user now has to change all of her config files15:25
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: the cfg object is the same for both15:26
bauzaswhen you import libs, it takes the global cfg object15:26
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bauzasso, within oslo code, it will register some opts15:26
johnthetubaguyn0ano: yes, if you use gantt you will need to use gantt.conf15:26
bauzaslike nova.openstack.common.policy15:26
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bauzas(well, maybe this example is bad, hold on)15:27
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johnthetubaguyyeah, it would be gnatt.openstack.common.policy, etc15:27
n0anosince we're going for a more major change, not just a code forklift, I like that idea, it's just a bigger change with wide ranging implications15:27
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johnthetubaguyn0ano: I think anything else is a bit confusing15:29
johnthetubaguywe will need upgrade/migrate helper scripts15:29
bauzasbut provided you call gantt.openstack.common.whatever15:29
johnthetubaguybut that is true anyways15:29
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bauzasall the opts will get registered in the same CONF object15:29
johnthetubaguyyep, they will15:29
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johnthetubaguybut when its an issue, they are in separate processes and code trees, just like Cinder vs Nova15:30
bauzasso, they will lead to DuplicateOptError15:30
n0anojohnthetubaguy, do we  have precedent for helper scripts that change config files, I'd prefer not to be the first one to do this15:30
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johnthetubaguyI think cinder did something like this15:30
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johnthetubaguywe would have to check with them15:30
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johnthetubaguyrussellb: might remember what cinder did for config migration15:31
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n0anoI'll see if I can see what was done, cinder would obviously have needed to do something15:32
n0anoit will certainly make splitting things a lot easier if the config moves to a new space, DuplicateOptError has been the bane of my life recently15:33
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Yathiis there a list of blueprints for gantt split work ?15:33
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n0anoYathi, the etherpad is the best place for that, it already has the first list of task & BPs15:34
Yathiok thanks15:34
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n0anoOK, anything else for today?15:36
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johnthetubaguynot from me15:36
n0anolooks like we talked out for today15:36
johnthetubaguyis up there now15:36
n0anotnx everyone, we'll talk again next week15:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)"15:37
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 15:37:11 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:37
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-25-15.00.html15:37
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-25-15.00.txt15:37
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-02-25-15.00.log.html15:37
Yathirequesting reviews for icehouse approved blueprints - solver scheduler and instance group api15:37
n0anoYathi, nova meeting is the best place for that, if you're not going to be there this week send me a link to the BPs you want review and I'll poke people15:38
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Yathiwhich is the nova meeting ? sorry i am confused15:39
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Yathii will send you the links please poke15:40
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Yathin0ano, this is the blueprint with all the patches - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/solver-scheduler15:43
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Yathiplease poke people for reviews thanks15:43
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n0anoYathi, this nova meeting - https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings#Nova_team_Meeting15:48
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n0anobut NP, I'll be at that meeting this week and bring up your BP15:48
Yathin0ano, thanks a lot please bring it up15:49
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Yathihttps://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/instance-group-api-extension is the other blueprint15:57
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Yathin0ano, just typed the other blueprint above  please poke about both for reviews15:57
n0anoNP, will do15:57
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boris-42_#startmeeting Rally17:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 17:01:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42_. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:01
boris-42_#startmeeting Rally17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:01
openstackboris-42_: Error: Can't start another meeting, one is in progress.  Use #endmeeting first.17:01
boris-42_ hughsaunders  ping17:02
boris-42_msdubov ping17:03
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hughsaundershey boris-42_17:04
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msdubovboris-42 hi17:04
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miarmakрш фдд17:07
boris-42_miarmak hey=)17:07
miarmakhi all*17:07
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boris-42_okay guys let's strat17:07
miarmakboris-42_: hi:)17:07
boris-42_1) Verification stuff17:07
boris-42_2) Benchmark stuff17:07
boris-42_3) Deploy stuff17:07
boris-42_#topic 1) Verification stuff17:07
*** openstack changes topic to "1) Verification stuff (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:07
boris-42_miarmak I have a couple of questions17:08
miarmakboris-42_: yep17:08
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boris-42_miarmak it actually is really hard to use17:08
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miarmakboris-42_: why?17:08
boris-42_miarmak I mean probably we should move all tempest files to ~/.rally/tempest/*17:08
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boris-42_miarmak cause it requires "sudo" to use it or even to run17:09
boris-42_hughsaunders +117:09
boris-42_and rally install will make git clone17:09
hughsaundersI was trying to figure out where tempest is installed, gets complicated with venvs17:09
boris-42_and rally run will copy paste this local repo to /rally/deploy-id17:09
boris-42_hughsaunders +117:10
boris-42_hughsaunders it doesn't work.. with venv..17:10
hughsaundersadded a debug statement just to show where config is as I wanted to check whats in it17:10
boris-42_miarmak are you agree with these chagnes?17:10
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miarmakboris-42_: hm, in such case of course17:10
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boris-42_marcoemorais ping17:11
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boris-42_marcoemorais we have meeting=)17:12
boris-42_miarmak ok let move this17:12
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boris-42_miarmak as I know you are not able to do this?17:12
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boris-42_miarmak so probably Olga could continue work around it17:12
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miarmakboris-42_: yeah(17:13
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boris-42_miarmak another area that I would like is to create by hand virtual env17:13
boris-42_miarmak inside rally17:13
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boris-42_miarmak and then use tempest with testr that will allow us to get full results (without processing of run_tempest)17:14
boris-42_miarmak so we will be able to parse them and store17:14
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miarmakboris-42_: aha, clear17:15
boris-42_miarmak so okay=)17:15
boris-42_#topic benchmark17:15
*** openstack changes topic to "benchmark (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:15
boris-42_Okay I would just to discuss our future steps17:15
boris-42_hughsaunders ^17:15
hughsaundersfuture of verification?17:16
boris-42_<boris-42_> #topic benchmark17:16
hughsaundersoh sorry :(17:16
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msdubovI think it makes sense to put here the link to https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit#heading=h.ae5lk415py0q17:16
msdubovas a guidance17:16
boris-42_msdubov yep17:16
boris-42_msdubov but we should start working around all these steps17:17
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msdubovI've started today with point 117:17
marcoemoraisboris-42_: here now17:17
boris-42_msdubov and point 217:17
msdubov("Improving scenario input args validation")17:17
boris-42_marcoemorais hey happy to see you=)17:17
msdubovboris-42_ Yep they are to follow17:17
hughsaundersI would like to work on stress execution, but won't be able to for a while17:17
msdubovThey are currently on review.openstack.org but WIP17:17
boris-42_marcoemorais you're just in right moment=)17:17
msdubovand will be rebased17:17
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msdubovhughsaunders I've actually started it some time ago17:18
msduboveven before we've made all this refactoring17:18
boris-42_msdubov you started in wrong direction=)17:18
msdubovSo I'll probably continue the work in another direction17:18
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msdubovin the right one17:18
boris-42_msdubov probably we could let hugh?)17:18
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hughsaundersboris-42_: no17:19
msdubovboris-42_ Well, it depends on when hughsaunders can start it, I think17:19
boris-42_msdubov there is a lot of other work that should be done before stress exectuion=)17:19
msdubovboris-42_ agree17:19
boris-42_somebody have to do it as well..17:19
boris-42_hughsaunders serious?)17:19
hughsaundersboris-42_: just time starved at the mo :(17:19
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boris-42_hughsaunders okay I think ww will see who will be able to do all parts17:20
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boris-42_msdubov hughsaunders but before doing it we should change input config17:20
hughsaundersboris-42_: yeah17:20
boris-42_hughsaunders so load_generator or run_configuration or run_config?17:21
boris-42_msdubov marcoemorais ^17:21
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msdubovboris-42_ I personally like "load generator"17:21
msdubovbecause it's logical for everybody not familiar with the inner structure of Rally17:22
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marcoemoraisboris-42_: what is the difference btwn run_configuration and run_config?17:23
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boris-42_msdubov length=)17:23
hughsaundersI would vote for run_config17:23
boris-42_marcoemorais length *17:23
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msdubovboris-42_ what's your opinion?17:24
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boris-42_msdubov i don't know as form one side I like load_generator (cause it clear that inside will be configuration of it)17:25
boris-42_msdubov from other side run_config is clean as well...17:26
boris-42_amaretskiy hi17:26
boris-42_amaretskiy https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit# open this document at point 3.117:26
boris-42_amaretskiy we are voting for new config schema17:26
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boris-42_amaretskiy load_generator or run_config17:27
boris-42_amaretskiy your oponion?17:27
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amaretskiysorry, I'm novice to this, I have no idea at that time17:27
boris-42_amaretskiy you are super useful for this task17:27
amaretskiyI'm just a spectator for a while :)17:27
boris-42_amaretskiy cause you don't know anything about Rally17:28
amaretskiyok, I will think about that for a minute...17:28
boris-42_amaretskiy what is more clear for you, it specify load that will be generated17:28
msdubovan argument for "load_generator" would be IMHO the fact that we are speaking about continuous/periodic LOADS on the cloud, not about continuous/periodic configurations17:28
msdubovboris-42_ " it specify load that will be generated" lol17:28
msdubovboris-42_ That's unfair :)17:28
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hughsaundersmsdubov: but its also parameters for how the scenario will be run17:29
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boris-42_btw tenants and user_per_tenant as well specify run configuration17:30
boris-42_probably it will be a bit misleading ?17:30
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msdubovboris-42_ Nope, they specify what happens inside the cloud, so it's ok I think...17:30
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boris-42_msdubov nope they specify actually run specifycation17:30
msdubovboris-42_ I mean that scenarios are on the Rally side but users/tenants exist in the cloud17:31
boris-42_hughsaunders so run_conifg should contains for 2 parts config of resources17:31
boris-42_hughsaunders and config of load17:31
marcoemoraishow about something even more generic like test_config or benchmark_config ?17:31
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boris-42_marcoemorais as I said17:31
hughsaundersscenario_args is benchmark configuration?17:31
boris-42_marcoemorais part with "cloud_config" is as well part of benchmark config17:32
boris-42_msdubov hughsaunders marcoemorais  what about load_config ?17:32
boris-42_because actually it is configuration of load17:32
boris-42_and nothing else17:33
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marcoemoraisboris-42_: usu. what is nice is when names in the configuration match names in the code (that is why scenario_args is nice), if we call this load_config, we should prolly rename the code to use word load17:34
boris-42_marcoemorais now they are called scneario_runners17:35
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marcoemoraisboris-42_: then runner_config?17:35
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boris-42_marcoemorais actually probably yes17:36
boris-42_hughsaunders msdubov thoughts ?17:36
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hughsaundersI like runner_config17:36
boris-42_cause it will be absolutely clear what means "type" field17:36
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boris-42_it's just runner type17:36
msdubovboris-42_ Also perfectly ok17:37
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msdubovmarcoemorais Also true. In any case, the code should follow the API (= the config format), but never vice cersa17:37
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boris-42_what about cloud_config?17:37
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* boris-42_ Holy wars meeting17:37
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boris-42_I think actually such things are very important17:38
boris-42_cause it is thing that is used by end users..17:38
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boris-42_so it should be ideal17:38
boris-42_so variants are next17:39
hughsaundersboris-42_: so things specified in cloud_config are setup before the scenario is run? In this case creating users..17:39
boris-42_hughsaunders yep but there will be much more17:39
boris-42_hughsaunders in future17:39
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hughsaundersso in general it specifies resources to be created that will be used by the scenario?17:39
boris-42_hughsaunders yep17:40
hughsaundersso resource_config ?17:40
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marcoemoraishughsaunders: that sounds pretty good17:40
boris-42_marcoemorais msdubov miarmak amaretskiy ^17:40
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rediskinupload images, configure access lists, configure network. imo better is cloud_config17:41
rediskinit not only resources17:41
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hughsaundershmm ok17:41
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boris-42_tzabal hi17:42
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boris-42_tzabal we have holy wars meeting at the moment17:42
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boris-42_tzabal https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1LYUAHkZQD8W7dtlj2I3PDA6x67TiD3AMnSWG6ljsups/edit#17:42
boris-42_tzabal point 3.1.17:42
hughsaundersso it specifies any action that needs to be done to the cloud before rally is run. cloud_preparation?17:42
boris-42_hughsaunders yep any actions not only creation of resources17:42
marcoemoraishughsaunders: one thing abt the items in this section is that they are ephemeral (eg cleaned up at end of test)17:42
boris-42_marcoemorais ?17:43
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boris-42_marcoemorais ah yes17:43
boris-42_marcoemorais they should return cloud in state17:43
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boris-42_marcoemorais before benchmarking17:43
marcoemoraisboris-42_: they will all get cleaned up by ResourceCleaner17:43
boris-42_marcoemorais yep17:43
marcoemoraisboris-42_: like setUp and tearDown in a unit test17:44
boris-42_marcoemorais yep17:44
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boris-42_rediskin bad config=)17:44
boris-42_rediskin but word "pre_benchmark"17:45
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boris-42_is interesting17:45
marcoemoraishughsaunders: benchmark_setup?17:45
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boris-42_benchmark_setup +117:45
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hughsaundersbenchmark setup is similar to scenario_args, we need something that implies action before the benchmark is run17:46
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hughsaundersso something with pre/prep/before/etc ?17:48
amaretskiywhat about bare words "setup", "benchmark", "cloud" ?17:49
hughsaundersscenario, runner, prep?17:49
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hughsaundersI like that17:50
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boris-42_marcoemorais rediskin amaretskiy msdubov miarmak17:51
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boris-42_without any complicated constructions17:51
amaretskiysounds good17:51
marcoemoraisI like prep17:52
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boris-42_marcoemorais ?17:53
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marcoemoraisboris-42_: args/runner/prep without additional complications is good17:53
boris-42_marcoemorais so we will use this set?17:53
boris-42_okay nice17:53
boris-42_renaming in doc17:53
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* boris-42_ nice17:55
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boris-42_it looks perfect and clear17:55
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tzabalagree, much better than the current format17:55
boris-42_who will rename it?17:55
boris-42_marcoemorais would you like to refactor it?17:56
marcoemoraisboris-42_: yes17:56
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marcoemoraisboris-42_: is there a trello card for this yet?17:56
boris-42_marcoemorais could you make task at trello?17:56
boris-42_marcoemorais nope17:56
boris-42_marcoemorais goal of this document is to collect all togehter17:56
harlowjawhats uppp17:56
boris-42_marcoemorais to simplify splitting job to trello tasks17:56
boris-42_harlowja ha=)17:56
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boris-42_harlowja we are just speaking about refactoring configuration file17:57
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harlowjakeep up the good work!17:57
boris-42_harlowja already disucssed17:57
boris-42_marcoemorais will implement17:57
harlowjaa question that i was having with marco, why have the json files at all? why not just let people program in say python17:58
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boris-42_harlowja there is a strong reason17:58
harlowjawhats that17:58
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boris-42_harlowja for 99% of people it is hard17:58
boris-42_harlowja for 80% of people it is hard even to fill right this simple jso17:59
harlowjathats sad17:59
harlowjadouble sad17:59
boris-42_so =(17:59
boris-42_they just would like to have 1 red button17:59
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boris-42_"benchmark it"17:59
boris-42_that will do all work and make a report17:59
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boris-42_JSON simplify UI of rally a lot18:00
harlowjaexccept its json :(18:00
harlowjaand can't have comments in it :(18:00
harlowjathat sux18:00
boris-42_harlowja so it should be super clean=)18:00
hughsaundersjson allows users to tailor benchmarks to their needs without hacking on code18:00
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boris-42_hughsaunders yep18:00
hughsaundersbut could use yaml, wouldn't make much difference18:00
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boris-42_hughsaunders actually yes18:01
harlowjahmmm, ok, i'm just not sure, to me hacking on json is the same level of difficulty as hacking on code18:01
hughsaunderscould use support both, its the structure not the format that is important18:01
harlowjabut up to u guys18:01
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tzabalfor the users of "red button", we may create a web UI as a frontend to the configuration with the required fields, it could be more "user friendly"18:01
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boris-42_guys we need to end meeting18:01
boris-42_let's go to Rally18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)"18:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 18:01:50 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-25-17.01.html18:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-25-17.01.txt18:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-02-25-17.01.log.html18:01
dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: keystone meetping18:01
bknudsondolphm: hi18:02
morganfainbergi mean \o18:02
morganfainbergdstanek and stevemar copied me, had ot change it up18:02
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dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 18:02:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
ayoung\m/    _v_    \m/18:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:02
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dolphm#topic Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze March 4th (features must be merged)18:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Icehouse feature freeze March 4th (features must be merged) (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:02
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dolphmwe look to be still on a good velocity -- although there are few patches that haven't seen as many revisions as they should be getting in response to reviewer feedback18:03
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dolphmso if you have something in review with -1's, keep posting revisions ASAP :)18:04
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dolphm#topic Deprecate XML in Juno?18:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Deprecate XML in Juno? (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:04
dolphmbknudson: o/18:04
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ayoung1 week18:04
dstanekdolphm: are some of those outside of the core team?18:04
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ayoung7 days....168 hours  10080 minutes....604800seconds18:04
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bknudsondeprecate XML was mentioned on the mailing list recently with nova.18:05
bknudsonnova has deprecated it18:05
dolphmdstanek: yeah18:05
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dolphmbknudson: for icehouse, correct?18:05
dolphmto be removed in juno18:05
bknudsonso I think keystone is the only project that has it and hasn't deprecated18:05
morganfainbergif the general direction is to remove XML support, i see no reason to not deprecate it in Keystone.18:05
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:05
jamielennoxbknudson: i completely agree that it's a good idea - the XML interface is dodgy at best, but nova is proposing that they do it with a new major version18:05
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dolphmwe should at least be on the same deprecation timeline18:05
bknudsondolphm: yes, they deprecated xml for icehouse -- their v2. and they have a v3 api that will not support XML18:06
morganfainbergI don't know any deployments that use it (i've been listening)18:06
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morganfainbergeveryone uses json afaict18:06
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morganfainbergit would also simplify things a good deal.18:06
bknudsonok, just wanted to bring it up and see if there were any objections.18:06
jamielennoxisn't it a compatability issue to remove it for an existing API?18:06
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ayoungpost to openstack mailing list on that one18:07
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jamielennox(my general feeling otherwise is good riddance)18:07
morganfainbergjamielennox, if we do the 2 cycle thing, we probably can get away with it.18:07
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dolphmjamielennox: that's a good question - but we wouldn't be breaking that by deprecating it -- only be removing it18:07
morganfainbergayoung, ++ post to -operators and xposted to -dev would be good18:07
dolphmdeprecation at least discourages further wasted dev cycles on it18:07
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morganfainbergdolphm, bknudson , how good is the XML support in V3?18:08
morganfainbergi... am embarassed i've never looked18:08
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ayoungdolphm, I thik the long term solution for keystone needs to be using Pecan'18:08
ayoungs rending18:08
dolphmmorganfainberg: it works, that's about it18:08
bknudsonmorganfainberg: for us it's just a translation layer18:08
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ayoungor whatever it is  that does the multiple content types18:08
morganfainbergayoung, ++ pecan18:08
morganfainbergayoung, yeah18:08
morganfainbergdolphm, k.18:08
ayoungI suspect that Pecan is going to change the output of the documents18:08
dolphmpecan would try to expose a whole new API though, so that would be massively breaking without a lot of dev effort18:09
ayoungcuz, you knowm, automated rendering and all18:09
dolphmayoung: ++18:09
morganfainbergayoung, we'll have to cross that bridge when we start down that path18:09
jamielennoxayoung: it shouldn't change much in terms of output at all18:09
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jamielennoxsee: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65428/18:09
jamielennox(which was passing)18:10
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jamielennox#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/65428/18:10
ayoungjamielennox, is that rendering responses that used to be rendered with the XML middleware?18:10
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jamielennoxayoung: it force renders everything into JSON and then lets the XML middleware do its thing for now18:10
ayoungjamielennox, that is what we are doing now anyway18:11
dolphmjust to get something in review to deprecate XML: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76301/18:11
jamielennoxI was going to look at an xml rendererer for pecan later18:11
ayoungso it is not using the Pecan XML renderer.18:11
jamielennoxayoung: no18:11
morganfainbergdolphm, snuck soemthing onto the end of the agenda, just for a quick status update18:11
dolphmmorganfainberg: ack18:11
dhellmannyou guys aren't using wsme for xml?18:11
jamielennoxayoung: there isn't really a pecan renderer, there is a wsme xml renderer18:11
ryanpetrelloFYI, pecan doesn't have an XML renderer by default18:11
ryanpetrelloright, what jamielennox said18:11
ayoungright, right18:11
ayoung"or whatever it is  that does the multiple content types"18:12
jamielennoxdhellmann: we can't regarding the issue of having arbitrarty API inputs that i raised on the dev list a while ago18:12
dolphmwsme is the interesting part of pecan/wsme18:12
dhellmannjamielennox: right, ok18:12
morganfainbergdhellmann, jamielennox, that is on the agenda to talk about for Juno ("extra" attributes)18:12
dhellmannwe're looking into ways to deal with that, since apparently every openstack API needs it18:12
jamielennoxdhellmann: i had a patch that would fix the problem for json, but i couldn't figure out a way to allow the same functionality for XML18:12
dolphmdhellmann: really?18:12
morganfainbergdhellmann, jamielennox, at least as far as i am concerned18:13
dhellmanndolphm: yeah, jd__ is looking into the issue18:13
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:13
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dolphmneed to start making a list of likely summit sessions18:13
morganfainbergjamielennox, <xtra attr, name="thing" value="val" />18:13
dhellmanns/every openstack api/far more openstack apis than I expected/18:13
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morganfainbergjamielennox, don't get too complex w/ it.18:13
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morganfainbergbut likely the attrs would still need to be defined18:14
morganfainbergi know that isn't valid xml.18:14
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:14
jamielennoxmorganfainberg, dhellmann: it's fine for JSON because you can just parse direct to python, you could probably do the same thing for pecan's XML format but keystone wouldn't use that anyway - cause we're different18:14
dhellmanneveryone is a snowlfake18:14
dhellmanner, snowflake18:14
morganfainbergdhellmann, flowerflake?18:15
ayoungdolphm, I suspect the buckets from last summit will stand as placeholders for the current summit:  client, federation, and so on18:15
jamielennoxit appears my wsme patch is on my work computer...18:15
dolphmayoung: that'd be a good start18:15
dolphmayoung: we'll likely have a slot or two less though18:15
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ayoungdolphm, only one session for Federation instead of two, then18:15
morganfainbergdolphm, we did very well with unconfrence-like stuff.18:16
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morganfainbergdolphm, i think we can make up the difference18:16
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dolphmmorganfainberg: and we'll do better with that this time around, if the logistics work out18:16
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:16
dolphm#topic Fixing multi-backend LDAP with composite user/group IDs18:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Fixing multi-backend LDAP with composite user/group IDs (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:16
dolphmmorganfainberg: o/?18:16
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dolphmhenrynash_: my second guess18:16
morganfainbergdolphm, henrynash_ ^18:17
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henrynash_this is just an update on this one….it's up for review18:17
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ayounghenrynash_, my big question is whether we "flip the switch" on the format by default18:17
henrynash_#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/18:17
dolphmhenrynash_: that is an absolutely GIANT patch to land after feature freeze18:17
henrynash_ayoung: agreed…and I think you are right, we should not flip the switch18:18
ayoungdolphm, yeah, but it is a lot of repeated code in Id generation18:18
ayoungroughly half is in tests...18:18
henrynash_dolphm:yeah, a lot of the changes are where we generate a uuid in testing, we now call a method to do it18:19
ayoungand he's written a lot of good text documentation18:19
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ayounghttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/74214/12/keystone/identity/core.py  is mostly docs  and it is the large changed file18:19
ayoung(outside of tests)18:19
henrynash_ayoung: agreed18:19
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morganfainbergso... you're saying it's a config option to enable the "new" format?18:20
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dolphmlet's try to get it in before next tuesday - if it doesn't land, my instinct is to hold it for juno rather than to land it as a "bug" fix18:20
ayoungmorganfainberg, I think so18:20
henrynashmorganfainberg: so for SQL new entities are in the new format always18:20
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morganfainberghenrynash, ok18:20
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morganfainberghenrynash, that was what we talked about, i'm cool w/ that approach18:21
morganfainberghenrynash, :)18:21
henrynashmorganfainberg: but old-style UUIDs are still supported18:21
morganfainberghenrynash, ++18:21
ayoungyeah...larger Database columns, basically maxing out what we can fit in an "in line" text field.18:21
morganfainberghenrynash, perfecrt18:21
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henrynashthe config switch is for existing LDAP-as-the-default-domain installations18:21
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morganfainberghenrynash, 100% ++18:21
ayoungWe'll try to hit some live testing on this.  I think nkinder and company will be interested18:21
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bknudsonI get this: Continue since identity does not exist.18:22
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dolphmhenrynash: one of the docs refers to the "internal" format of ID's -- are you not proposing to change the ID exposed to the API?18:22
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morganfainberghenrynash, cool. yeah i just didn't want SQL stuff to end up not getting the new format for new entries18:22
ayoungdolphm, format for ID has always been a blob18:22
* ayoung wonders if we are going to break the other services18:22
henrynashdolphm: not exitsing entity's ID will change18:23
dolphmayoung: if you're going to stop responding to existing ID's, that's likely18:23
morganfainbergayoung, hm. possibly18:23
ayoungdoes Nova have an assumption of a uuid for a userid?18:23
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ayoungYeah, we need this to be "actively enable"18:23
morganfainbergayoung, no.18:23
morganfainbergayoung, but might have a size expectation18:23
henrynashdolphm: no….all existing IDs are still supported. period.18:23
ayoungright...that is what I meant18:23
morganfainbergayoung, actually18:23
morganfainbergayoung, i don't think it wont matter.18:24
morganfainbergayoung, arg, s/wont//18:24
ayoungdouble negative?18:24
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jamielennoxayoung: if we're unsure of things like other services size limits it seems like something we should hold until juno18:24
henrynashdolphm: nobody;s existing ID will change (assuming we set the config switch the right way for people who have an LDAP as the default domain)18:24
morganfainbergayoung, no lose the second negative.18:24
ayoungmorganfainberg, the other projects store "owner" and might have fixed sized fields.18:24
morganfainbergayoung, i think only swift could care18:25
morganfainbergayoung, afaik nova cares about project18:25
ayoungalthough...would tempest catch that?18:25
morganfainbergayoung, not "user" in that regard18:25
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dolphmmorganfainberg: what about quotas?18:25
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morganfainbergdolphm, in nova, thats still project based18:26
morganfainbergdolphm, not user based18:26
dolphmgood to know - i thought it was both18:26
morganfainbergi'm 2x checking18:26
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ayoungdolphm, lets just assume it will break "somewhere" and make it an option that has to be actively enabled, and then we can chase down the offenders over time\18:26
dstanekthis sounds like a topic for the dev list to get a wider audience18:26
dolphmhenrynash: has this been on list before?18:26
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ayoungMarconi, DBaaS, Barbican...who knows what evil lies in the hearts of code of men?  The shadow18:26
ayoungand by The Shadow, I mean not us.18:27
henrynashdolphm: so myself and ayoung have discussed the ideas of composite IDs (which is what this is) before on the list...18:27
ayoungyep...got a lot of feedback, too as I recall18:27
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morganfainbergi'll grab nova folks and talk to them today about user id lenfth etc18:28
dstanekhenrynash: was the change is size called out at all?18:28
dolphmhenrynash: all i was going to suggest is to resurrect the existing thread18:28
bknudsonwe're going to have some funny-looking ids for federation.18:28
morganfainberglater today in our channel18:28
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henrynashdolphm: not a bad idea and make an explicit request on the size (dstanek - it was proposed as composite of two existing UUIDs)18:29
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ayoungits not just nova I am worried about.  Nova would get caught in Tempest testing18:31
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bknudsontempest hasn't been complaining so far18:31
morganfainbergwell i think it wont be a huge issue but we'll 2x check.18:31
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dolphm#topic v2 tenant list18:31
*** openstack changes topic to "v2 tenant list (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:31
dolphmhenrynash: o/18:31
ayoungbknudson, question is whether tempest is running against MySQL.  If so, we are getting out length checked18:31
bknudsonayoung: tempest runs mysql and postgres18:32
dolphmhenrynash: i could probably address this topic as well18:32
henrynashso just a quick one on tenant list18:32
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ayoungbknudson, yeah, so we should be good, since tempest was run by check on henrynash 's patch18:32
bknudsonwe could return 2 tenants with the same name.18:32
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henrynashbknudson: yep18:32
bknudsonI ran the db2 migrations and no complaints.18:32
dolphmhenrynash: the only intended purpose for the default domain is to provide domain-scope for domain-unaware v2 calls (which is all of v2)18:33
morganfainberghenrynash, yes V2 should only show default domain.18:33
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dstanekso, with this change are all user ids larger than the previous max?18:33
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dolphmhenrynash: so users and tenants should only ever be returned from the default domain in v218:33
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:33
henrynashdolphm: that's my view too…and in fact we do restrict it for users (slight by mistake)18:33
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dolphmhenrynash: by mistake?18:33
bknudsonwhat if you get the projects for a user...18:34
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bknudsonand the projects are not in default domain.18:34
bknudsonI don't know what all the operations are.18:34
henrynashdolphm: my original changes to multi-backend for Havana caused the user list via v2 to only be for the default domains18:34
dolphmbknudson: it should only show tenants from the default domain18:34
dolphmif you're making that call on v218:34
dolphmhenrynash: that's perfect18:35
morganfainbergwe should do filtering to eliminate V3 specific data18:35
morganfainberghenrynash, ++18:35
dolphmhenrynash: and should have been the existing behavior if it wasn't :(18:35
ayounghenrynash, it might not have been intentional on your part, but it was right18:35
henrynashdolphm: yep18:35
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henrynashbut I never touched projects, hence it has the old behavior18:35
henrynashit's an easy one-line fix (plus some testing) so can submit a patch for review today18:36
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morganfainberghenrynash, can you also ensure other V3 specific data doesn't get returned (e.g. projects for user)18:36
gyeev2 API have no access of projects and users outside of the default domain18:36
morganfainberghenrynash, or is that a larger scope18:36
morganfainbergand/or needs more time/energy/resources to complete18:36
henrynashmorganfainberg: yeah, I wondered about that….I think it probably IS possible that there are holes there18:37
gyeewe have those filters in place already right?18:37
morganfainberggyee, not sure.18:37
morganfainberggyee, but we should18:37
gyeeI remember seeing them for the token APIs at least18:38
henrynashI'll fix this specific issue (tenant list) as one patch…and investigate other issues sperately18:38
morganfainberghenrynash, ok18:38
dolphmhenrynash: thank you!18:38
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dolphm#topic Kite18:38
*** openstack changes topic to "Kite (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:38
dolphmmorganfainberg: o/18:38
dolphm(this is also on the TC agenda for today)18:39
morganfainbergdolphm, just a quick status update, (correct me if i'm wrong) we're waiting on TC meeting later today to know if we have scope increase for splitting the repos to openstack/kite18:39
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ayoungkite is for KDS only, right?18:39
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morganfainbergdolphm, talked w/ jamielennox, if the split doesn't occur i think the best bet is to remove KDS from the keystone repo before RC then add it back in post split.18:39
gyeekite is KDS right?18:39
morganfainbergayoung, yes18:39
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morganfainberggyee, yes18:39
dolphmmorganfainberg: so, if the TC views this as an increase of scope beyond our existing mission statement, then there will be a lot more discussion18:39
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:39
morganfainbergsorry post RC cut18:40
morganfainbergnot split :)18:40
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jamielen-dolphm: this has been the problem in the past though, the reason it had to be in keystone repo to begin with18:40
bknudsonwe'd have to drop kite entirely if TC doesn't like it?18:40
morganfainbergso we don't halt development, but we don't release bad code.18:40
jamielen-grr, stupid irc18:40
dolphmi'd be fine with a repo on stackforge; it's obviously not going to be an integrated project as of icehouse18:40
dolphmbknudson: the TC only cares about the proper program to govern the project18:40
morganfainbergdolphm, sure i'll convert my patch to move it to stackforge if TC says no today18:40
dolphmbknudson: i.e. whether kite falls under identity or not18:40
morganfainbergdolphm, the goal is to not release anything in icehouse that is broken-non-functional18:41
dolphmand the TC is going to discuss kite vs barbican, and i'm sure identity vs barbican as well18:41
dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:41
gyeeif kite is identity then so is barbican :)18:41
jamielen-morganfainberg: ++ i don't want what is currently KDS in icehouse18:41
morganfainberggyee, which isn't nessiciarly the wrong "program" for either18:42
morganfainberggyee, barbican and kite are not keystone and that is the important distinction18:42
gyeemorganfainberg, it all depends on the definition18:42
morganfainberggyee, i didn't say it was the "right" program, but it isn't the "wrong" program. they are (imo) separate projects18:42
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dolphmthe scope of "identity" is defined here https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/programs.yaml18:43
gyeein the upcoming summit, lets have a session on what exactly is Keystone18:43
dolphmso it's up to the TC to determine of kite falls inside or outside of that scope18:43
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morganfainbergdolphm, yep. just wanted to make sure everyone was aware kds/kite will be out of the repo by RC18:43
dolphm(i'm curious about everyone's opinions here, too)18:43
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morganfainbergit isn't ready and shouldn't be in keystone18:43
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dolphmmorganfainberg: ++18:44
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morganfainbergdolphm, my opinion is that barbican (certs, keys, etc) same w/ KDS  are forms of identity. and should be in the identitty program18:44
ayoungits undercloud identity management, out of the scope of keystone currently, but I think we need to loop back around on what is meant by Identity Management, and how Open Stack is approaching it for the Undercloud18:44
morganfainbergdolphm, they should be separate projects18:44
dstanekmorganfainberg: ++18:45
jamielen-dolphm: i'm happy to have it outside of keystone, but we're kind of back to where we were last summit - maybe it is, maybe it isn't, we put it in keystone because it was the quickest way18:45
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ayoungKDS provides an "identity" for invidual hosts inside of the undercloud that doesn't exisitng in a consistent way.   KDS, OTOH, only provides symmetric keys, which are not sufficient for Identity managment purposes, too18:45
morganfainbergayoung, i think Identity program should encompass cloud and undercloud (i hate "undercloud" as a term)18:45
mordredmorganfainberg: what's wrong with undercloud?18:46
* mordred goes back to hiding18:46
morganfainbergayoung, but, as you are a fan of saying, if you squint hard enough...it looks like identity18:46
ayoungmorganfainberg,  KDS and certificate management are both part of Identity management18:46
morganfainbergmordred, i dislike "cloud" as a term ;)18:46
mordredmorganfainberg: +10018:46
morganfainbergmordred, i don't have an alternative18:46
ayoungand we are going to be doing more certificate management as part of keystone.  We already distribute signing certs18:46
morganfainbergayoung, yes.18:46
mordredmorganfainberg: there are no alternatives - only worse words18:46
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ayoungData center management18:46
morganfainbergayoung, ++18:47
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gyeeayoung, but Keystone is not issuing certs, yet18:47
jamielen-ayoung: if so we should have barbican closer to keystone18:47
ayounggyee, nope, and I don't think it should isssue them18:47
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ayoungbut distribution....18:47
morganfainberggyee, but i think cert issuance and distribution IS identity management18:47
gyeemorganfainberg, I am not disagreeing18:48
ayoungthe question is "OK I have a signed document. I know who signed it, but it has no cert embedded.  Where do I get it?"18:48
ayoungand for messaging  (pub sub) we are going to need to use PKI, cuz symmetric won't cut it18:48
gyeeayoung, ++ for PKI18:48
gyeebout time!18:48
jamielen-ayoung: i think that the 'no cert attached' thing is wrong and we only barely get away with it for tokens because of size18:49
ayoungjamielen-, its a performance tune18:49
jamielen-for tokens you should be syncing that cert around with puppet or whatever18:49
ayoungjamielen-, with messaging, the constraints will be the same18:49
ayoungno...puppet is the wrong tool for that18:49
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jamielen-the very nature of asking for a cert from someone else by name is wrong18:49
ayoungfetch certs on demand18:49
gyeeayoung, CMS/SMIME was for message security18:50
ayoungjamielen-, the cert distribution can be as insecure as possible.  So long as the certs themselves are secure18:50
bknudsonif I wanted a cert I'd get it from LDAP18:50
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bknudsonsomeone's public cert18:50
gyeebkundson, cert lookup yes18:50
gyeecert issuance no18:50
ayoungbknudson, that is the solution of choice in the enterprise, yes18:51
bknudsonI don't think we need keystone to do cert issuance... solutions exist.18:51
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ayoungthe underclopud does not disctate LDAP18:51
jamielen-bknudson: ++18:51
morganfainbergayoung, but if the whole cert chain is insecurely distributed, how do you ensure you're getting the right authoritative certificate?18:51
ayoungfunny you should say that18:51
morganfainbergayoung, it's the idea behind trusting the root cert18:51
gyeemorganfainberg, cert fingerprint validation is out-of-band18:51
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morganfainberggyee, you still need to trust the root cert18:52
ayoungmorganfainberg, yes, CA certs should be synced via Puppet, or something comparable18:52
gyeemorganfainberg, yes, but verifying the fingerprint of the cert you are importing18:52
morganfainbergayoung, ok cool as long as we're clear on that18:52
morganfainbergayoung, no problems :)18:52
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morganfainberggyee, it isn't about importing the cert it's about management of the CA cert18:52
ayoungkeystone shipping the CA certs is suboptimal.  Its ok if you squint, but I'd prefer a better solution18:52
bknudsonayoung: barbican?18:53
morganfainberggyee, we can't distribute the CA securely.. well we can but meh.18:53
gyeemorganfainberg, we do it via chef18:53
morganfainberggyee, it was just a point of "make sure we recommend how it's supposed to go"18:53
morganfainberggyee, yep18:53
morganfainberggyee, ++18:53
gyeeif you don't trust chef then there's no deployment :)18:53
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dolphmayoung: shipping as in pki_setup? or shipping as in through the API/18:53
ayoungbknudson, that is just pushing the responsibility around.  A CA cert should be a long term resource, should be signed buy, like, a verasign cert and so on, and should be verified by hand once in a while, too18:54
morganfainberggyee, not trusting your own CMS is not an OpenStack concern18:54
ayoungI want pki_setup to go away...and I have a proof-of-concpet for that that aI am going to submit as a patch for devstack shortly18:54
dolphmayoung: yay18:54
morganfainbergayoung, double yay!18:54
dolphmand ssl_setup18:54
ayoung#link http://adam.younglogic.com/2014/02/certmonger-selfsigned-cms-cert/18:55
gyeewait, you are replacing one *self-signed* with another?18:55
dolphmgyee: i'm assuming self-signed there is just for the sake of a reproducible example (?)18:56
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ayounggyee, only for development18:56
ayounggyee, the goal is to get certmonger in there, and have certmonger talk to the real CA18:56
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gyeek, I see18:56
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ayoungcertmonger will talk to Barbican...or write your own CA plugin .  It can already do FreeIPA18:57
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henrynashdolphm: since we only have a minute of two to do, wanted to draw your attention to: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/128470018:57
ayoungI discussed with the Barbican folks, they are on board18:57
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jamielen-we say all this but barbican currently has no PKI/cert abilities at all18:57
dolphmand certmonger is in ubntu 13.10 now -- cool18:57
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morganfainbergand 14.04 is coming soon, so, new LTS!18:58
henrynashdolphm: I just raised this…found it during testing for multi-backend….I'll be fixing that issue was well in a separate patch18:58
gyeeayoung, nice! I think atiwari is also working on the PKI piece for barbican18:58
dolphmhenrynash: ack18:58
ayounggyee, very cool18:58
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* dolphm 1 min18:59
ayounggyee, one summit session needs to be around service, endpoint, and policy distribution18:59
jamielen-(it annoys me that barbican decided on a different HTTP framework to _everyone_ else)18:59
ayoungatiwari, 's issues18:59
gyeedolphm when you are accepting proposal for the upcoming summit?18:59
gyeethe design summit I mean18:59
morganfainberggyee, they typtically go up once speaker stuff is done18:59
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dolphmgyee: that probably won't happen for another month19:00
morganfainberggyee, so probably in a couple weeks19:00
morganfainbergor what dolphm said19:00
stevemaronce we're able to propose sessions, we usually go through them after a few weeks, and cut it down to however many spots we have19:00
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dolphmopen in a couple weeks, closed in a monthish, i'm guessing19:00
dolphmstay tuned to http://summit.openstack.org/19:00
gyeedolphm, morganfainberg, cool, I'm making a list19:00
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dolphmstevemar: ++19:00
*** openstack changes topic to "Current status (Meeting topic: Mistral)"19:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 19:00:48 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-25-18.02.html19:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-25-18.02.txt19:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-02-25-18.02.log.html19:00
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jeblairlet's fix this topic19:00
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stevemarthe topic was plenty good, no need to fix19:01
*** jeblair changes topic to ""OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings""19:01
*** jeblair changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:01
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jeblairall set19:01
jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 19:02:09 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
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jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-18-19.01.html19:02
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jeblairI'm going to reorder the agenda a bit based on priority and what we did/didn't get to last week19:02
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fungiit's last-week-part-two19:02
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jeblair#topic Ongoing new project creation issues (mordred)19:03
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jeblairthis one is important so it gets a spot at both meetings :)19:03
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jeblairmordred: you have been looking into this... want to talk about your findings?19:03
mordredI'm fancy19:03
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mordredyeah - so a few things19:03
mordredfirst, I want to refactor manage-projects so that it's a set of smaller special-purpose tools19:04
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mordredlike a tool for making gerrit projects, and a tool for making github repos19:04
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mordredcreate_cgit_repos is a good example of what things shold be19:04
mordredalong with that ,I think it'll make it easier to unittest19:04
mordredso that we can, you know, have some confidence that the tools at least are doing what we expect19:05
fungisounds very unixy19:05
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mordredonce taht's sorted (or maybe in parallel)19:05
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mordredI think that we shodl stop running manage-projects with puppet19:05
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mordredand should instaeda run it with salt19:05
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anteayaI have that on my agenda19:05
mordredso that we can express something like "please run these repo creation commands on the cgit mirrors, then run these gerrit project creation commands on the gerrit server"19:06
anteayaand have bee working on setting up a gerrit19:06
anteayaand am making some progress19:06
mordredanteaya: I'll be sure to work with you on that once I get closer to it in my mind-brain19:06
mordredI also just mentioned the overall plan to jesusaurus as he knows a bit of salt, so perhaps between the three of us we can knock it out19:06
fungianteaya: mordred: you may want to pick up where i left off with utahdave on that too19:06
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Salt-Event-System19:06
jeblairso my understanding is that we have three major problems: 1) multi-host coordination 2) github api limits 3) it's broken for empty projects for some unknown reason19:07
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jeblairsalt helps with 119:07
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jeblairpresumably we can solve 3) with the refactor and better testing19:07
mordredright. so - for 2)  I have two thoughts19:07
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mordredone is that we can just try less with github - maybe stop setting description fields and homepages, and/or only setting no-wiki/no-downloads on repo creation19:08
mordredwhich would cut down on api calls, but also remove features19:08
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mordredthe other idea19:08
mordredis to make a local concept of state19:08
mordredso that manage-projects records what it believes it has successfully done19:08
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mordredand then it can more sanely choose to only to needed thigns in the future19:08
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mordredit would mean it would not re-set github toggles if someone went behind its back19:09
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fungimaybe even have it confirm that what it thinks it has done has actually been done before it records that state change, just for belt and braces19:09
mordredbut I think I'm ok with that, since the incidence of that should be VERY low19:09
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mordredfungi: ++19:09
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jeblairsounds reasonable19:09
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mordredor - possibly more specifically19:09
clarkbwhat about proxying all of the github communication and reducing it to the required19:09
mordredthis could just be local state from the github tool19:09
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clarkband rate limiting via the proxy19:10
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mordredhow does the proxy know if a command is needed?19:10
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fungiclarkb: the problem with that i think is just that we make way, way, way too many github calls, unless you think the proxy could sanely cache those responses for a time19:10
jeblairis it a rate limit we're hitting?  we have ways of dealing with that19:10
clarkbmordred: more I am thinking that every 15 minutes we set the description19:10
clarkbproxy can say no I set that yesterday drop19:10
mordredright. that's why I was thinking we just rework the script to stop doing the naive thing19:11
clarkbor, queue it up such that it eventually happens19:11
jeblairi think the amount of effort we invest in working with github should be minimal19:11
mordredjeblair: ++19:11
clarkbjeblair: yes rate limits and ++ to that19:11
SergeyLukjanov2sorry, have some problems with my bouncer19:11
SergeyLukjanov2reading scrollback19:11
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clarkb5k requests per hour19:11
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mordredSergeyLukjanov2: that makes me think that you're having problems with the guy who keeps unwanted patrons out of your nightclub19:11
jeblairclarkb: that just seems like a lot of requests19:11
mordredjeblair: yeah - I think we're trying WAY too hard to keep github up to date19:12
fungiclarkb: right. currently one full m-p run seems to use over 1k requests, so we tend to only hit it when testing the script at the moment, but might encounter it more in production over time19:12
jeblairmordred: anyway, i think we have the high level requirements: do less with github but keep features.  maybe being smarter about using the api but also keeping state can be solutions.19:12
SergeyLukjanovmordred, heh, I mean irc bouncer ;)19:12
mordredjeblair: ++19:12
mordredjeblair: one approach or the other may make more sense as we dive into code19:13
clarkbmordred: fungi: don't forget the pull reqest closer19:13
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clarkb(which doesnt' seem to work at all) will factor into the request numbers19:13
fungiclarkb: i can't forget it--i have an open shell under the account now trying to diagnose what's wrong with the github api that's breaking it19:13
mordredclarkb: well... funny you should mention that19:13
jeblairso i think as a team we need to decide what the current situation is for new projects, and what we need to communicate19:13
mordredI was actually thinking that that could be re-written as a hook we register with github19:14
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jeblairbecause i'm personally confused as to which kinds of projects we should or should not create now19:14
fungimordred: if you want to write that, i'll stop troubleshooting the current vague issue we have with it19:14
jeblairmordred: doesn't that mean we have to run a web service?19:14
mordredI think we can create them whenever an infra person feels like running manage-projects by hand - but that it's an as-time-allows sort of thing19:14
clarkbjeblair: yes, it does a callback mechanism similar to the old jenkins stuff19:15
mordredjeblair: I was thinking about a hook that would ping zuul ... it's not a well formed thought19:15
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jeblairmordred: okay, let's set that aside for a bit and talk about current m-p19:15
mordredjeblair: ++19:15
jeblairi'm not comfortable running it because it breaks a lot and there isn't a defined process for how to fix it19:16
jeblairhow to fix the resulting mess it leaves, i mean19:16
mordredI'm not sure it breaks when we run it by hand, does it?19:16
mordredall the times I've tried to trigger breakages when running it it's worked fully19:16
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jeblairmordred: none of the 3 problems i stated seemed to be affected by whether or not its run by hand19:17
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jeblairmordred: did i miss that nuance or is there a 4th?19:17
mordred1) is avoided when running by hand because the cgit puppet usually runs well before you get around to running it19:17
jeblairmordred: how is that possible?  isn't it just as likely that it would run on gerrit first?19:17
mordred2) is avoided becayse I'm lazy when running by hand and only run the project in question, so don't do a full run19:17
mordredjeblair: nope. it's not m-p on cgit19:18
jeblairi refer to the whole system19:18
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mordredI mean - if we go back to having it turned off in puppet 100%19:18
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mordredno cron - no trigger19:18
jeblairgot it, that makes sense19:18
mordredbut leave the create_cgit_repos in ... 1 is prolly fine19:18
mordredand 2 is prolly fine, because we'll be running per-repo19:19
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mordred3 - oy. I got nothing for 3 right now19:19
jeblairso that leaves "it breaks for new projects with empty repos".  i assume that happens regardless?19:19
jeblairfungi: can you confirm or fail-to-confirm that assertion ^?19:19
jeblairguess not19:20
fungijeblair: i have witnessed it when run under the puppet exec (and we have tracebacks)19:20
fungii haven't tried to reproduce that failure mode running outside of puppet since we only witnessed it once we had reenabled automatic puppeting19:21
jeblairfungi: what's the solution to manually fix it?19:21
fungijeblair: delete all the on-disk repos and rerun it a couple times, which leads me to believe it could still be a race of some sort in gerrit group or acl processing which we only hit when we don't import a project (that could be affecting the timing?)19:22
fungiall the on-disk broken repos for the project in question, that is19:22
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fungithe traceback is a vague "failure" from gerrit when running the create-projects api call19:22
fungiand there's nothing helpful in gerrit's logs that i could find19:23
jeblairit sounds like if we wanted to limp along, we can do so by manually running manage-projects (with possibly needing the fix fungi describes)19:23
mordredcould we just ban completely empty projects for now to avoid 3?19:23
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jeblairmordred: i would like to avoid that19:23
clarkbfungi: I am not convinced it it related to the group or acl things since, empty repo creation is handled entirely by gerrit19:23
jeblairmordred: i personally don't ever want to say "you are required to use github in order to use our system"19:24
mordredjeblair: yes. I completely agree19:24
clarkbfungi: but I need to do more debugging myself to understand what happens19:24
fungiclarkb: agreed. it's a stab in the dark. could be an internal gerrit issue which is fixed in later releases19:24
jeblairso if we're going to run it at all, then i think we need to just eat the cost of empty repos ourselves until it's fixed19:24
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jeblairi'm personally ok with saying "no new stackforge projects until this is fixed".  but the manual process sounds tolerable, and we might be able to learn how to fix problem 3.19:25
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jeblairso i'm okay with that too.19:25
jeblairmordred, clarkb, fungi: since the 4 of us will have to manually run this thing: do you want to continue to accept new projects and run by hand as discussed, or would you prefer a moratorium?19:26
fungii think if we're going to stop accepting new stackforge projects for a while, we should make a fairly broad announcement19:26
mordredjeblair: I'm fine with running manually when one of us feels we have time - but we should make it clear to folks that we're probably going to batch them up or something19:27
jeblairfungi: i agree, and a clear one that states the problem and when we expect it to be fixed19:27
jeblair"new project friday"? :)19:27
clarkbmordred: batch up ++19:27
fungiotherwise for some (unfortunately large number of) contributors this is their first commit and interaction with gerrit/infra, so doing through all that effort only to be told to go away is not going to give them a great impression of our processes19:27
mordredoh - you know what?19:27
mordredhow about we request that people put the topic "new-project"19:28
mordredso that we can find new project requests19:28
jeblairmordred: ++19:28
clarkbmordred: ++19:28
mordredthat'll make them easy to batch review and batch apply19:28
fungii think that would help19:28
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jeblairso, batch manual creation weekly?19:28
fungiheh... new project fridays19:29
jeblairon fridays?19:29
mordredI can send a quick email - but we should probably put a note in teh stackforge docs19:29
mordredabout it19:29
mordred(about teh topic)19:29
fungisure. and then i'll go out and drink heavily after i'm done running (and cleaning up after) it19:29
jeblair#agreed new projects should have the topic "new-project"19:29
jeblair#agreed we will batch create new projects weekly on fridays19:29
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jeblairokay, final thing19:29
clarkbfungi: if you get a chance can you direct me to the puppet logs of failed non seeded project creations?19:29
clarkbfungi: I will take a look at them to get more eyes on it19:30
jeblairwho's going to fix this, and when do we expect it to be fixed?19:30
fungiclarkb: i think i pasted it into the open bug, but i'll confirm19:30
jeblairi'd like to include that in the communication around this as well, becuase this is still a service degredation.19:30
jeblairand also, i don't actually want to agree to run them manually if it's not going to be fixed19:30
fungii completely agree with that sentiment19:31
mordredjeblair: I'll fix it - I've started poking at the code anyway19:31
mordredand I think it's an important thing to have properly automated19:31
anteayamordred: can you drag me along, I would like to learn19:31
mordredanteaya: yup19:32
jeblairmordred: ok.  can you estimate when you might have something working enough for us to start trying it in production?19:32
SergeyLukjanov++ for batching new projects requests19:32
mordredjeblair: depends on how much hacking I can get done on the plane on friday19:32
mordredcan I give you an estimate on that next meeting?  I don't think the code split/clean is THAT much work19:32
SergeyLukjanovbtw, I think that I can help with manually creating projects if someone teach me / grant permissions... if it sounds useful19:33
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jeblairmordred: yeah, but the salt thing is more complex and vague19:34
mordredjeblair: yes. that is true19:34
jeblairmordred: part of the problem is that we've been saying 'oh we should have salt run m-p' for years19:34
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anteayayes, at least since last year19:35
jeblairso i want to have an end date for this19:35
mordredjeblair: well, step one is to get the scripts split up. step two is to be able to run _Those_ scripts in the proper sequence by hand to verify that it works as expected19:35
mordredstep three woudl be to have salt run the sequence of thigns we ran by hand, yeah?19:35
mordredjeblair: ++19:35
mordredto end date19:35
mordredlet's call it a drop-dead of mid-march19:35
mordredI think it's entirely reasonable to get it done by then19:36
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jeblairokay, so we should have it working by ttx's ski vacation19:36
fungiso that we can create the new ttx-goes-skiiing project19:36
mordredwow. I love that we all know when ttx goes on vacation19:36
jeblair#agreed new system ready for production-testing by mid-march19:37
anteayamordred: you do remember I am gone for the second week of march19:37
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mordredanteaya: nope. I do not remember that. let's try to get it done sooner then :)19:37
jeblairokay, so i think we should send out an announcement that says to expect delays in new project creation through the end of march (let's give us time to deal with issues we find with the new system)19:38
anteayamordred: okay I will find you19:38
jeblairand it should also mention the topic name, and that we will batch create on fridays19:38
mordredI can send that19:38
clarkbsounds good to me19:38
jeblair#action mordred send new-project service degredation annoucment19:38
jeblairmordred: thanks!  i'm very excited we have a plan19:39
jeblairanything else about this?19:39
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jeblair#topic Pip 1.5 readiness efforts (fungi, mordred)19:40
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clarkbI can jump right in if we want to still consider this tied to tox19:40
fungii can't remember if i've done anything new on this. mordred?19:40
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fungilooks like we've had new and unfortunate activity on clarkb tox pull request19:41
fungi#link https://bitbucket.org/hpk42/tox/issue/150/posargs-configerror19:41
fungi#link https://bitbucket.org/hpk42/tox/pull-request/85/fix-command-expansion-and-parsing/activity19:41
fungithe first was linked from the second (the latter being his pr)19:42
clarkbso I hopped over to #pylib yesterday and spoke about this19:42
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clarkbthere are a couple issues at hand as I gain broader understanding of tox. Basically prior to 1.7.0 posargs were special in the command processing and worked the way we want them but all other variables worked as posargs does today19:43
clarkbso they made tox more consistent in less flexible and backward incompatible ways19:43
clarkbmy change goes the complete opposite direction and tries to make them consistent and more flexible in backward incompatible ways19:43
clarkbbut since my change comes second it is apparently not ok that it is backward incompatible19:43
clarkbronny's suggestion is to do a different type of variable substition instead for what we want19:44
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clarkbbut also would like holger's feedback when holger is back from vacation in a week and a half19:44
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anteayawhat is the fallout if we do a openstack-tox branch?19:44
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jeblairi think we were going to call it xot19:45
clarkbI like botox19:45
sdagueor just bring back run_tests.sh19:45
clarkbupstream is being receptive though19:45
clarkbI think they understand the problem now and appreciate how 1.7.0 broke them19:45
fungi(that's a bit much to type though)19:45
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sdagueclarkb: will there be a way to be compatible across that boundary19:45
dhellmannfungi: the command would be "drink"19:46
clarkbsdague: yeah by introducing a new feature that does sane argument parsing19:46
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sdagueclarkb: ok19:46
fungidhellmann: you have a good point19:46
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jeblairclarkb: remind me why pip 1.5 might be dependent on this?19:46
mordredso - quick question -19:46
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mordredjeblair: we get pip via tox19:47
clarkbjeblair: because tox 1.7.0 bundles pip 1.5 so as long as we use tox 1.6.1 we use older pip19:47
fungiif we want a tox version which includes pip 1.5 or later19:47
clarkbwe do have a few potential workaround if we want to use tox 1.7.019:48
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clarkbwe can stop using python setup.py test and go back to the small shell snippet19:48
clarkbwe can update python setup.py test to treat posargs as testrargs19:48
clarkbbasically do what tox does in setup.py19:48
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clarkbboth of these changes will work with tox 1.6.1 and 1.7019:49
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clarkbI still maintain tox is broken and my arg parser is better >_> but I don't see me winning that battle19:49
mordredI'd rather do the second thing - but I think I failed last time I tried doing that19:49
jeblairbut both of them require updating all branches of all repos19:49
clarkbjeblair: correct19:50
fungibut will require changes to all projects (or can we shim that with pbr?)19:50
mordredbecause the args string is actually parsed by setuptools and then handed to us19:50
mordredclarkb: what gets passed to tox in the broken version?19:50
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clarkbmordred: an argv with posargs in it19:50
clarkbwhich is then appended to the argv built from the command19:50
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clarkbso it doesn't get shlex'd in the way you might expect, the literal argv array is appended to the argv apssed to exec19:51
clarkbits a cheap way to ignore escaping rules but isn't very flexible19:51
jeblairclarkb, mordred: do you want to make a decision now, or wait a few weeks for holger?19:52
mordredI thnk we shoudl wait a few weeks19:52
clarkbI am tempted to wait for holger so that we are good citizens19:52
mordredI don't want to touch pip during ff period anyway19:52
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jeblairgood point19:52
jeblairso we're probably actually looking at what to do for J at this point?19:53
* fungi concurs. slushy from this point onward i think19:53
jeblair#agreed wait for holger to weigh in on tox changes; target pip 1.5 for Juno19:53
ttxslushy slush19:54
jeblair#topic Open discussion19:54
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jeblairi don't think we have sufficient time for any other major items, so anyone have any smaller items to mention?19:54
mordredthere is some pypi-mirror refactoring up19:55
SergeyLukjanovfyi I've started working on extracting common jobs to templates for layout.yaml, starting from requirements check and pypi release19:55
funginew elasticsearch cluster is on the way, maybe by my dinnertime19:55
zaroany ETA on az2 so i can run a working build?19:55
jeblairzaro: i haven't heard anything new19:55
mordredthat YorikSar helped me make better than I was making it - which was all driven by trying to re-think how pypi-mirror deals with errors and stuff19:55
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fungialso the change to no longer download wheels in pypi-mirror merged yesterday, and we're getting complete mirroring once more19:56
clarkbfungi: it may take longer than that :P depends on how long data ends up replicating to new nodes allowing us to shut off old ones (we only have one node of redundancy so can turn everything off all at once)19:57
fungioh, and i've proposed we stop running grenade on havana a week early19:57
clarkbfungi: woot19:57
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mordredfungi: ++19:58
jeblairthanks all!19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 19:58:31 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.html19:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.txt19:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-02-25-19.02.log.html19:58
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ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
mordredo hai20:00
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ttxannegentle, jgriffith, vishy, jeblair, lifeless, sdague, dhellmann : around ?20:00
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lifelessttx: mostly20:01
lifelessttx: have to do a kindy run in a minute20:01
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ttx9-10, that makes enough of us20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 20:01:33 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxSo I'm back, yay20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:01
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ttx#topic Progress on DefCore feedback20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Progress on DefCore feedback (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/20:02
ttxI hope everyone had a chance to catch up with the current draft over the week20:02
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ttxSo far we had a number of +1s on the review. Comments ? Strong objections ?20:02
mikalI haven't received any negative comments20:02
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ttxCounting mikal's implied +1 that makes 8 YES and no objection, so I can approve it after meeting20:03
dhellmannI'm assuming we'll make a pass for typos and punctuation and stuff before sending it?20:03
jeblairi think i agree with just about everything in it20:03
* jgriffith needs a bit more time20:03
mikaldhellmann: comment on errors in gerrit and I will fix20:03
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dhellmannmikal: ok, there were lots of sentences in bullets without caps on the first char, so that may just be a style thing20:03
ttxdhellmann: Ideally we'd fix typos and punctuation BEFORE writing it as a final resolution20:03
ttxmikal: do you know when the next DefCore meeting will be ?20:04
ttxAh! I guess zehicle knows20:04
zehicle_at_dellttx: Monday20:04
mikalThere's a physical meeting soon20:04
mikalAnd a VC at a time which doesn't work for me this week IIRC20:04
zehicle_at_dell#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreElephant.520:05
mikalI missed last weeks meeting because my day sucked, which I apologise for20:05
ttxmikal: so it would be great to have the final base position approved by then, so that you can represent it20:05
zehicle_at_dell#https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/DefCoreElephant.4 from last time, we try to keep good notes20:05
mikalOh, there's a remote option now20:05
ttxor anne may be able to stand in for you20:05
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ttxjgriffith: is the "more time" you need measured in minutes or days ?20:06
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jgriffithttx: I'm done20:06
jgriffithttx: waiting for people to throw shoes at me20:06
ttxjgriffith: and what's the verdict ?20:06
jgriffithI'm a -120:06
vishysorry i'm late, my irc bouncer crashed20:06
jgriffithMost of it I agree with20:07
jgriffithbut I can't get passed the "black box API" suggestion20:07
ttx"disagree that API blackbox is the right answer. Anybody can write an interface for anything that's 100% compat with OpenStack API's so this IMO misses the point."20:07
mikaljgriffith: reading your comment20:07
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mikaljgriffith: we're not saying that black box is _the_ answer20:07
mikaljgriffith: we're saying is the _start_ of an answer20:07
jgriffithttx: was nice enough to paste it above :)20:07
markmcjgriffith, the trademark rules already require you to run the code20:07
ttxlet's allocate 10 minutes to discuss that, I don't want it to steal all the meeting time20:07
jgriffithmikal: then it shouldn't be suggested IMO20:07
markmcjgriffith, the requirement is rather vague though20:07
jgriffithmarkmc: hey... I'm just one guy, and I get to vote20:08
mikaljgriffith: well, we say its what we think can get done for Icehouse and that we'll iterate20:08
jgriffithmarkmc: if I'm crazy so beit :)20:08
markmcjgriffith, of course - I'm just discussing ?20:08
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lifelessso I share jgriffith's concern FWIW20:08
markmcjgriffith, clarifying ...20:08
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jgriffithmarkmc: understood sorry20:08
lifelessbut I also agree that black box testing is a good, common, necessary but not sufficient condition20:08
* jgriffith tries to be funny sometimes and it doesn't work out well20:08
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ttxlifeless: it's only a first step, if you read the draft20:08
ttxlifeless: as in, better than nothing and maybe doable for icehouse release20:09
lifelessttx: I know20:09
jgriffithlifeless: that's kinda the way I feel.. the API component is assumed IMO20:09
lifelessttx: I voted +1 on the draft.20:09
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mikalAPI testing is also better than what we have now20:09
mikalWhich is mostly a hand wavey promise20:09
jgriffithI feel I may be worrying about this more than I should20:09
markmcno-one is saying passing API tests is sufficient alone for TM usage20:09
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jeblairlast time we discussed that the current state is that you must "run all the code" to use the trademark, and the suggestions in the draft wouldn't change that....20:10
ttxthat draft doesn't claim to have an answer. It exposes some discomfort with the question that was asked, requires clarification on a number of items and proposes a first achievable step for icehosue20:10
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jgriffithmarkmc: fair enough20:10
jeblairjgriffith: do you want a response that makes that more explicit?20:10
dhellmannjgriffith: I do share some of your concern, maybe we can make the wording stronger?20:10
sdagueso, out of curiosity, has anyone sniff tested that APIs for the big openstack public clouds20:10
jgriffithmarkmc: jeblair yes, explicit is better than implicit IMO20:10
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jgriffithsdague: elephant in the room20:11
mikalsdague: could you consider nodepool to be a simple sniff test?20:11
jeblairsdague: o/  :)20:11
mordredsdague: infra uses hp and rax20:11
mordredwhat mikal said20:11
lifelessttx: I have to drop out for 10m to drop C off at kindy20:11
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ttxlifeless: ack20:11
sdaguemordred: yeh, through novaclient, which hides a ton of differences20:11
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ttxlifeless: we shall have moved on20:11
mordredhehe. we should just say "if nodepool works, you're openstack" :)20:11
jgriffithmordred: are HP and RAX the only ones that matter, and do you use the API's that heavily?20:11
* mordred is joking20:11
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sdagueand I know defcore is talking about tempest as a basis for some of this. It just seems like some early data would be handy to understand how sane the approach is20:12
jeblairsdague: it's full of "if we detect rackspace behavior, do rackspace thing", but i fear most of that isn't api violations, it's, erm, "flexibility" in what the api allows20:12
mordredjgriffith: nope to both - just saying, we _do_ use the apis in production across four different openstack versions of cloud successfully20:12
mikalI think maybe if people have concerns big enough to vote -1 they should comment in gerrit so they're tracked20:12
jgriffithmordred: fair20:12
mordredand what jeblair said20:12
jgriffithmikal: I did20:12
mikaljgriffith: I know, but others are concerned now too. You've started a thing.20:13
jgriffithdang me!!!20:13
mikalI don't mind taking some time today to try and address people's concerns20:13
mikalBut we should try to not keep defcore people waiting too long20:13
jeblairmikal: i still support the draft as written, but would also support adding something that addresses jgriffith's concerns20:13
ttxOK, let's continue the discussion in the code review, and raise any strong disagreement as a -tc thread. See what we can come up in time for the next DefCore meeting (Monday)20:13
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jgriffithMy suggestion would be API compat as a seperate effort/proposal or at least a sub-task20:13
jgriffithbut that it be explicit that that's what it is20:13
jeblairmikal: (because i feel it's making something explicit that is currently implicit)20:14
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dhellmannmikal: my concerns were eased by the statement that this is just the start and we already require "all the code"20:14
mikaljgriffith: let's have a chat in PM after the meeting and see if we can nail something down20:14
jgriffithmikal: sure20:14
ttxmikal: +120:14
mikaldhellmann: I'm not 100% sure the words are "all the code" or just "the code".20:14
jgriffithdhellmann: that's a valid point20:14
mikalmarkmc: ^-- do you know which?20:14
mordredI believe it's "the code"20:15
markmcmikal, digging up a link now20:15
dhellmann"the code" isn't "some of the code" so isn't it "all the code"?20:15
mikalI can certainly add something saying we believe that statement shouldn't be removed yet20:15
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mikali.e. API tests are not a sufficient replacement20:15
jgriffithdhellmann: explicit is better than implicit20:15
markmcinclude the entirety of the OpenStack [..] code from either of the latest20:15
markmc     two releases and associated milestones, but no older, and20:15
jgriffithI can translate english however is convenient20:16
* markmc looking at https://raw.github.com/markmc/governance/defcore/resolutions/20140211-tc_defcore_response20:16
dhellmann"entirety" sounds like "all"20:16
* annegentle_web slides into the back of the room20:16
markmcjbryce quoted here:  http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-February/026559.html20:16
ttxOK, time is up. Let's continue iterating on the draft, with the Monday deadline in mind20:16
ttxand move on20:16
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ttx#topic Creating key distribution service (KDS) under identity program20:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Creating key distribution service (KDS) under identity program (Meeting topic: tc)"20:17
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/73022/20:17
ttxSo... As I mentioned in http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-February/000540.html ...20:17
ttxWe don't need to approve project additions to a program, unless one of the TC members flags it as potentially overstepping defined bounds, in which case we schedule a discussion about it20:17
ttxAnd obviously if the project files for incubation, it needs to go through our regular procedure (incubation request)20:17
ttxHere there are two issues. One is the addition to the "integrated" section, which obviously can't happen before Juno starts... but I think that was just misplacement in the YAML20:18
ttxThe other is about the project addition itself, which I flagged for discussion and put on the agenda20:18
ttxMy question is, how this would be affected long-term by Barbican, which also promises to "distribute keys" ?20:18
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ttxdolphm: you around ?20:18
ttxjraim_ too20:19
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jraim_ttx: I'm here20:19
dolphmttx: o/20:19
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ttxdolphm: could you first confirm that you just want to add a new project to the program, not a new integrated piece to openStack common release ?20:19
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dolphmttx: exactly - when/whether it's integrated isn't my immediate concern at all20:20
ttxdolphm: ok, good20:20
dolphmi really just want to ensure that the code has a proper place to live next week (outside of keystone)20:20
ttxMy understanding was that this is a temporary change, more to avoid shipping the KDS *in* Keystone in Icehouse and have to maintain/deprecate it in the near future when Barbican will be ready to replace it20:21
zehicle_at_dellI'd like for DefCore to take up answering these questions at the meeting on Monday20:21
dolphmttx: correct20:21
russellbzehicle_at_dell: the questions in the draft response?20:21
ttxzehicle: maybe follow the draft review on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74483/20:21
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dolphmthe key dist implementation isn't ready to ship, and even if it was - it's a discrete service bundled into the tree that doesn't really belong (nor share anything in common with keystone outside of keystone.openstack.common)20:21
zehicle_at_dellrussellb & ttx, ok thanks20:21
ttxdolphm: If that's the case (temporary), then I'm not sure we should use the openstack/* namespace for temporary drops of code20:22
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ttxThis could live in stackforge with a specific set of core devs20:22
dolphmstackforge/ is absolutely fine with me20:22
ttxespecially if we approve barbican soon20:22
dhellmannwhat's the relationship between this code and barbican? are they separate implementations of the same feature?20:22
russellbIMO, the reason we pushed for keystone to ship this a long time ago is because it seemed to fit OK with the program, and we thought we could get it out sooner that way20:23
ttxI understand the need for that code to live somewhere, in a somewhere that is not Keystone icehouse release20:23
russellbbut if we're approving barbican soon (seems likely), it's making less and less sense i think ...20:23
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russellbbarbican doesn't support what this does, though20:23
dolphmdhellmann: kds / kite is providing a heavily requested feature for nova (the groundwork for secure messaging); which potentially overlaps with barbican's long term roadmap20:23
dolphmdhellmann: today, they don't overlap20:23
ttxrussellb: that's why if tha code needs to live somewhere, I'd rather have it in stackforge20:24
mordredto be contrary20:24
russellbbut nova can't really use it unless it's an official project IMO20:24
russellbso we're no better off20:24
jraim_agree with dolph. From my point of view, the point of putting kds into keystone was to launch before barbican was ready. It doesn't seem ready for icehouse, so it seems like we could subsume it into barbican for juno20:24
morganfainbergdhellmann, and it wasn't clear when they would overlap.20:24
mordreddolphm: do you feel that people doing work on this are doing work that's part of the openstack identity program?20:24
ttxmordred: they are looking like a separate group of people to me20:25
dhellmannwe have lots of repositories in openstack/* that aren't integrated but are owned by an official program; what's the issue with adding this one?20:25
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sdaguedoes that mean we are waiting for secure messaging until barbican is an integrated project?20:25
mordreddhellmann: that's what I was getting at20:25
ttxdhellmann: it's the fact that we all think it will have to be removed in 6 months20:25
russellbsdague: that's what we were originally hoping to avoid ...20:25
dhellmannttx: why do we think that?20:25
russellbbut if it's split into its own project, and not an extension to keystone, it's not going to happen any sooner20:25
ttxdhellmann: because it's overlapping with Barbican goals20:25
mordredttx: I heard "on barbican's long-term roadmap"20:25
mordredttx: I did not hear 6 months20:25
ttxmordred: I heard "in Juno"20:26
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ttx"it seems like we could subsume it into barbican for juno"20:26
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sdaguettx: sure, but that doesn't help nova20:26
dolphmmordred: there's not substantial contributions from the existing keystone community20:26
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ttxI mean, if it's meant to live for a few cycles, then I agree to have it in openstack/kite20:26
dhellmannsdague: is nova going to use a non-integrated project from keystone?20:26
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jraim_mordred: I don't think I have a problem with the feature in theory, but no work in Barbican has been done to support it yet20:26
morganfainbergttx, originally that was not an option during the earlier conversations, it wasn't clear when the overlap/move to barbican would occur20:27
sdaguedhellmann: well that's the other open question20:27
ttxbut if everyone wants it to die after icehouse, then it feels a bit weird20:27
russellbdhellmann: sdague no...20:27
sdagueand the answer should be no20:27
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dhellmannrussellb: right, that's what I thought20:27
sdaguelike russellb said20:27
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ttxmorganfainberg: I would not be asking this question if we weren't considerign barbican for incubation20:27
russellbif this has to be a new project, and it's on incubation cycle and such, i think we should be shooting for barbican20:28
ttxthat changed the rules a bit20:28
morganfainbergttx, makes perfect sense.20:28
russellbit only makes sense outside of barbican if it could have been an extension to keystone that could be released much quicker20:28
russellbIMO, anyway20:28
ttxrussellb: it won't be an integrated project anyway20:28
russellband possibly never will be20:28
russellband if that's the case, i don't think nova (or more accurately, oslo.messaging, right?) will use it20:29
dhellmannis the purpose of this new repo to preserve the kite code somewhere out of the keystone repo?20:29
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dolphmdhellmann: that is my immediate goal20:29
russellbwhich i'm certainly disappointed by, we've been talking about this functionality for years20:29
dhellmanndolphm: could we just make a branch where we keep it and delete it from master?20:29
dolphmdhellmann: i don't want to see it ship as an incomplete implementation of a complete service in keystone.contrib.kds20:29
dolphmdiscrete service*20:29
dhellmanndolphm: makes sense20:30
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sdagueso if the code has no actual life, because no one is going to use it, why do we care where it lives?20:30
dhellmannbut do we need a new repo to preserve it, esp. if it's going to merge with barbican soon?20:30
ttxso it boils down to: the expectations of durability of a project below openstack/* vs. the expectations of consumability of something under stackforge20:30
dolphmdhellmann: the code is written to be ripped out into it's own repo - i'd like to do that sooner before we accidentally make calls across projects and make separation more difficult20:30
russellbdo we expect this project to apply for incubation?20:31
sdaguedhellmann: why would we think it would merge into barbican vs. them writing their own version of this which fits better in their project20:31
russellbif not, the whole thing is moot, nobody is going to use it20:31
jeblairdolphm: is active development going to happen in that repo before it is merged into barbican?20:31
ttxrussellb: no, unless we reject barbican from incubation next week20:31
russellbok, just wanted to make sure that's clear20:31
dhellmannsdague: semantics? If this is going away because of barbican, does it need to live on its own anywhere?20:31
russellbthis is something we don't expect to ever get used at this point, then :(20:31
dolphmjeblair: so far, it only has one contributing developers, and a few of us have been regular reviewers; i don't know if i can predict any change there20:31
sdaguedhellmann: that's kind of my question20:31
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dhellmannsdague: ditto20:32
russellbsounds like git rm is the answer20:32
ttxdhellmann: right. This is a temporary code drop. I don't think we should use the openstack/ù* namespoace fopr temporary code drops20:32
sdagueyeh, I'm headed down the path of git rm20:32
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jraim_jeblair: I imagine barbican will take the functionality, but not necessarily the code20:32
ttxrussellb: i'm fine with stackforge or git rm20:32
russellbbecause barbican has now become the quicker path to getting this functionality into the integrated release20:32
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dhellmannttx: I agree, I didn't realize it was gong away that soon20:32
sdaguejraim_: right, that's what I expected20:32
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sdaguettx: I think abandonware on stackforge is the wrong answer20:33
ttxmaybe we should rule on barbican first20:33
russellbi think we've been pretty positive on barbican so far20:33
russellbjust waiting on final requirements to get met20:34
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ttxsdague: don't think abandonware. Think temporaryware.20:34
markmcclainso can we just park it in an feature branch temporalily?20:34
sdaguettx: it's only temporaryware if someone is going to use it20:34
jraim_russellb: we should be pretty close, just final tweaks to gate job. I was planning on asking for our final review next week assuming no more speedbumps show up20:34
mordredmarkmcclain: why even bother? it's in the git history already20:34
ttxsdague: oh ok, i see your point20:34
dhellmannmordred: just ease, but fair point20:34
sdaguemordred: ++20:34
russellbmordred: markmcclain unless they still want to work on it20:35
dolphmmordred: there are outstanding patches in review; i'd like to keep them moving20:35
ttxyes, git rm sounds like the answer here20:35
sdaguedolphm: but, why?20:35
dolphmmordred: i don't want to see the effort die, unless it's being picked up someplace else20:35
sdaguebecause I think we just decided it's a dead end20:35
markmcclainmordred: good point… I wasn't sure of the state of continuing work on it20:35
sdaguebecause it will never be used in anything, so it seems like spending time on it is just a big waste20:35
jeblairand jraim_ suggested they might not take the code20:35
ttxuntil barbican picks it up it's good to keep it alive ?20:35
jraim_jeblair: not sure either way. There are differences in frameworks, but some code might be usable. I haven't looked at it enough to know yet20:36
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jeblairit's not a great experience to hack on dead-end code; i think the sooner we can point the devs at where this really should end up, the better.20:37
sdagueso it really feels like either there is a commitment to get this out there an integrated soon, or we just strategically go in the direction of barbican (assuming all well there)20:37
sdaguejeblair: ++20:37
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dolphmsdague: if the feature set is being moved to barbican then that's a viable solution i'm just as happy with20:40
russellbttx: as long as those working on it understand the likely end game ...20:40
russellbit's not fair to folks to let them think otherwise20:40
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ttxthey should rather join barbican imho20:40
dolphmthe service side work has taken place under this bp - https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/key-distribution-server20:40
russellbttx: +120:40
ttxmake sure their concerns are taken into account20:40
dolphmthere's still a few things in review with recent revisions20:40
russellbhelp work on barbican20:40
ttxdolphm: ideally you should rip it off by feature freeze20:40
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dolphmjeblair: barbican might not take the bulk of the code due to falcon vs pecan/wsme, and probably difference in backend architecture20:40
dolphmttx: +++20:40
ttxdolphm: you could use a feature branch,n as long as those working on it know about the future20:40
ttxwe need to move on20:40
russellbwhich uses falcon?20:40
dolphmrussellb: barbican20:40
russellbsigh ok20:40
ttxI think we have general agreement that adding a project is not the way to go20:40
dolphmttx: so, stackforge repo or feature branch?20:40
ttxfeature branch does not require us approving you :)20:40
russellbor git rm, or private github repo, or ... whatever20:40
ttxok, we need to move on20:40
dolphmalright - that's good enough for me until after feature freeze :)20:40
ttxand we shall have an answer for barbican next week20:40
ttxif patches land20:40
ttx#topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron20:40
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseProjectReviewNeutron20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttxmarkmcclain: ready?20:40
ttxstep 2 in our "let's apply new rules to old projects"20:40
ttxwow lag20:41
lifelessdo we have any guarantees of durability ?20:41
lifelessbah, sorry, reading backlog :)20:41
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russellbmarkmcclain: distributed virtual router ... merged?20:41
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markmcclainno… DVR is likely to merge in Juno20:42
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russellbother big thing is the migration plan20:42
markmcclainwe will merge several HA features before Icehouse closes20:42
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russellbfolks aren't happy with the "just snapshot to glance and re-deploy" migration option20:42
russellbwell one of the other big things, there are a few20:43
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markmcclainyeah… I'm working on finding a resource to see how we can integrate nova-net as a backend in Neutron20:43
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russellbheh, cool20:43
russellbso ... production viable open source plugins20:43
russellbseems to be some thought that they may require a rewrite20:43
jeblairttx: is there an etherpad for this?20:43
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markmcclainThe team has spent a lot of time making the current crop of agents more scalable20:44
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russellbOK ... maybe we can find a way to do some scale / performance testing during juno20:44
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markmcclainyeah that is on our list20:45
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russellbok, cool, i think we really do need some confidence there, using some data20:45
markmcclainthere will eventually be a point at which we'll point folks towards the open source or proprietary controllers20:46
russellbnova + neutron integration code is already in flight it seems, so that's looking promising20:46
sdagueyeh, agreed. Because it seems like the openvswitch implementation in tree has definitely been a pain point20:46
jeblairlifeless: what is tripleo using?20:46
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lifelessjeblair: neutron20:47
jeblairlifeless: sorry i mean what controller?20:47
lifelessjeblair: ml2 + ovs20:47
sdagueso I guess the other question I have overall is scope. Because it seems like we keep adding *aaS services into neutron, as I keep getting review requests in devstack and neutron for them :)20:47
russellbsdague: +120:47
lifelessjeblair: we're not using a full fledged SDN controller yet. Would love markmcclain to tell me what one Neutron recommends :)20:47
sdagueso I think neutron is now exceeding nova in number of agents20:47
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markmcclainsdague: so we're only support 3 adv services right now: Firewall, VPN, and Loadbalancing20:48
jeblairk, good so that's a miniature production deployment using an open source crontroller where we as a project will have a lot of visibility20:48
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lifelessFWIW neutron agents handle outages better than nova's.20:48
ttxsdague: difficult to tell, we haven't a mission statement describing scope yet :)20:48
sdaguejeblair: well, ml2 + ovs isn't really an open source control compared to what you think of as an SDN20:48
russellbmarkmcclain: do you feel like the punch list for what's blocking deprecation of nova-network is well understood?20:49
lifeless(exactly to sdague's comment)20:49
markmcclainyeah ml2 is not a full sdn solution20:49
russellbi feel like it is, but want to make sure we're on the same page20:49
lifelessperhaps there should be a set of bugs20:49
lifelessmarked with a tag20:49
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ttxmarkmcclain: so that's all networky services. Do you foresee any other networky service to be added on top ? QoS ?20:49
lifelessso we can burn them down20:49
markmcclainlifeless: so beagles has been tracking those items20:50
markmcclaincreated bugs where we didn't have a blueprint covering other work20:50
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sdaguemarkmcclain: so is there are reason advanced services aren't being done trove style or NFV? I guess that's my long term concern on growth there20:50
lifelessmarkmcclain: is there a single url I can visit that shows the status? E.g. a bug search, or a blueprint search ?20:50
lifelessmarkmcclain: if we have to say 'look in these N places' it becomes massively harder to get folk up to speed20:51
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markmcclainsdague: yes… some of the advanced services really benefit from direct integration20:51
russellbhm, 8 minutes left20:52
sdagueok, so I guess in project scope / mission statement that should be indicated somewhere. Because turning on VPNaaS last fall cranked up the failure rate because of the extra load on the backend20:52
sdagueso there is also a cost of adding more services here as well20:52
russellbi guess an important question is, if neutron were applying for graduation today, what would we say?  what feedback would we have?20:52
markmcclainlifeless: there was wiki we've tracking most of Icehouse, but I got a report late yesterday that the maintainer wants to redo it again20:53
markmcrussellb, right20:53
sdagueI think my big 2 issues would be: 1 - not at parity with testing20:53
markmcI think our advice/requirements would mostly be about parity20:53
sdague2 - unclear scope boundary20:53
markmcthe way we're approaching ironic now20:53
lifelessmarkmcclain: if I can make a suggestion, get a set of bugs together, mark them high, tag them, and get russellb to agree that they are both necessary and sufficient :)20:53
lifelessmarkmcclain: one place, one search, automatically kept up to date as things land.20:53
markmcclainsdague: yeah we're working on making the services run within the same agent to reduce the load issue20:53
markmcare there lessons learned from nova-network->neutron that we can apply to nova-bm->ironic20:54
russellbmarkmc: agreed20:54
lifelessI'd add a 3- vendor participation20:54
markmce.g. no new features, no increase in scope, until you reach parity20:54
lifelessfrom the outside, the core of neutron is very small20:54
lifelessfor all that the team is big20:54
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markmcclainlifeless: agreed a few items didn't fit into bugs20:54
russellbmarkmc: yes that, and no calling ironic done/integrated until we get there20:54
lifelessmarkmcclain: use a hammer :P20:54
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markmcrussellb, nod20:54
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markmcare we saying we wouldn't graduate neutron now?20:55
ttxOK, we need to move on to the rest of the agenda. Do you need to continue the discussion on this next week ? Or is the feedback clear enough ?20:55
markmcclainlifeless: I'd argue vendor participation is healthy20:55
russellbmarkmc: that's my opinion, i'm afraid20:55
russellbttx: not done IMO20:55
russellbbut we can finish quick20:55
markmcttx, need to continue - no point in making this review a checkbox20:55
markmcclainThe deployer side is one that I've been trying to grow more20:55
russellbor continue next week20:55
ttxI'm fine with continuing next week20:55
russellbbut basically 1) would we graduate neutron and 2) if not, what timelines / expectations do we have for those expectations to be met now20:56
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ttxwe need to have clear outcomes if the current situation is not satisfactory20:56
ttxOK, let's table this and continue next week20:56
lifelessmarkmcclain: ok thats great; it just *looked* like many vendors were poking at their driver only.20:56
lifelessmarkmcclain: with patches taking months to get reviews20:56
ttxsince I think that's a very valuable discussion to have20:56
lifelessmarkmcclain: if they were for the core20:56
sdaguettx: ++20:57
ttx#info to be continued next week20:57
lifelessmarkmcclain: if thats changed, I'm super happy :)20:57
ttx#topic Minor governance changes20:57
*** openstack changes topic to "Minor governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:57
markmcclainlifeless: so of the vendor patches got pushed to back of the queue to focus on testing20:57
ttx* Add oslo.test to the Oslo program [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74117/]20:57
ttxI'll approve this one now, enough +1s already20:57
ttx* Add Infrastructure Program mission [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74494/]20:57
ttxSince this was previously approved, it's more a housekeeping item, so I can probably approve this one too20:57
ttx* Oslo program changes (oslo.vmware addition) [https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74570/]20:58
ttxthis one needs Doug's approval as Oslo PTL, then unless someone objects and flags it for further discussion I will approve it20:58
dhellmannI +1ed it earlier today, I think20:58
sdaguedhellmann: there still a rename that needs to happen?20:58
ttxso unless someone objects I'll approve it tomorrow20:58
sdagueor just deal with that after20:58
ttx#topic Open discussion20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:59
dhellmannsdague: the oslo.test library is now "oslotest" but I was going to wait until after the feature freeze thaws to mess with the repo name20:59
ttxFWIW I reorganized the proposals for the BoD/TC meeting agenda at:20:59
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ttxI'll synthesize this and work with Alan to see which (and how much) we can fit in two hours20:59
ttxLast minute thoughts ?20:59
mikalI've tweaked the defcore draft20:59
jeblairsdague, ttx we're starting to use the governance repo directly for the ATC scripts, so keeping that yaml file current would be better than having it represent a hopeful future state21:00
mikalPeople should look again21:00
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dhellmannsdague: I need to chat with you about using d-g for testing oslo.test, see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/74408/21:00
ttxjeblair: agreed21:00
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ttxmikal: thanks21:00
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sdaguedhellman_: sure, to -infra with that21:00
ttxand that concludes this meeting21:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 21:00:50 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-25-20.01.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-25-20.01.txt21:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-02-25-20.01.log.html21:00
ttxthanks everyone21:00
ttxdhellmann, dolphm, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: (still) around ?21:01
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ttxWe don't have a lot on the agenda, so this should be quick, unless someone has a surprise item21:01
ttx#startmeeting project21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Feb 25 21:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:02
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:02
ttx#topic Swift 1.13.0 RC21:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Swift 1.13.0 RC (Meeting topic: project)"21:02
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ttxEarly this morning I cut the milestone-proposed branch from the SHA that notmyname gave me for
ttxUnless a regression is found in testing that RC, it shall be released as Swift 1.13.0 later this week21:02
ttxThe current plan is that the next release of Swift shall be the Icehouse-synchronized release, with RCs expected early April21:02
ttx#topic icehouse-3 progress21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "icehouse-3 progress (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
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ttxAfter Feature Proposal Freeze last week we had a lot of cleanups going on21:03
ttxNow the current plans are all reasonable, but there is a lot left to do this week !21:03
ttxRemember the feature code needs to land before EOB Tuesday March 4, after that it will need an exception21:04
ttxReview and land early, as always... winter is coming21:04
ttxOne never knows how the gate will respond as we get closer and start piling up stuff on it21:04
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ttxbut it's unlikely to get a lot faster21:04
ttxQuestions / comments on that ?21:05
lifelesswe're going to be requesting some exceptions21:05
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lifelessthere are key heat pieces we need for proper upgrades21:05
lifelessthat aren't landed yet21:05
devanandait is likely that Ironic will request an exception for the nova "ironic" driver as well21:06
ttxlifeless: I think stevebaker mentioned them to me21:06
stevebakerlifeless: what heat changes?21:06
lifelesswithout which TripleO (and Trove, and others) have issues21:06
lifelessstevebaker: graceful node changes21:06
lifelessstevebaker: and we need to solve the 'nova 500's -> everything stops' bug.21:06
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lifelessstevebaker: because honestly, APIs are not bulletproof.21:06
lifelessstevebaker: and the idea that a user should have to intervene after a DB or network glitch, or keystone being overloaded for a few seconds... is really hard to understand21:07
ttxfwiw Heat and Horizon are naturally more liekly to get exceptions, as they need to catch up with the craziness upstream21:07
stevebakerlifeless: at least that is a bug, not a feature21:07
ttxstevebaker: are graceful node changes in your "high" list already ?21:08
lifelessstevebaker: sure, but SpamapS tells me its been getting pushback, so I'm expecting that we need yet more discussion around it. So... may be last minute when we finally get consensus21:08
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stevebakerttx: I'm not sure what specific blueprints are needed for graceful node changes21:09
stevebakerI'll sort it out with SpamapS and lifeless21:09
ttxsounds good21:09
ttx#topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)"21:09
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ttxstevebaker: while we are at it, you mentioned a potential conflict we may have to solve ?21:09
stevebakerblueprint instance-users needs this devstack change to allow its gating to pass https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76036/221:10
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stevebakerthat is all21:10
ttx#info blueprint instance-users needs this devstack change to allow its gating to pass https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76036/221:10
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ttxdtroyer: can we get some express love on that one ? ^21:10
ttxIn other news, horizon/neutron-subnet-mode-support is blocked on neutron/ipv6-two-attributes21:11
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dtroyerttx: +221:11
ttxdtroyer: thanks21:11
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sdaguejust +Aed21:11
devanandattx: I'd like to raise a question about nova BP deprecate-baremetal-driver, which was untargeted and unapproved last week21:11
ttxmarkmcclain: what's the rough ETA for ipv6-two-attributes ?21:11
ttxstevebaker: magic!21:12
sdaguestevebaker: so does that close issues with the heat-slow tests?21:12
stevebakerdtroyer, sdague, thanks21:12
ttxdevananda: cool, just a sec21:12
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stevebakersdague: I've seen this failure a few times, I need to look into it http://logs.openstack.org/36/76036/2/check/check-tempest-dsvm-neutron-heat-slow/1adf53f/console.html21:12
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markmcclainttx: hopefully later this week21:13
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markmcclainttx: both have gotten core review attention21:13
stevebakersdague: some help in extracting pass/fail stats from logstash would be great21:13
sdaguestevebaker: ok, getting that voting should definitely be high priority before the mad rush, otherwise I'm sure neutron and nova will break heat again during i321:13
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stevebakersdague: we'll need to add the job to neutron too21:14
ttxdavid-lyle: So.. if it lands then you shall get a FFE if needed to get it in21:14
sdaguewell, to all the jobs actually21:14
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david-lylettx: ack21:14
ttxdavid-lyle: if it doesn't land and is deferred... then I guess your change doesn't make sense anyway21:14
david-lylettx: correct, will push to Juno at that point21:15
ttxdavid-lyle: like I said above, horizon (and Heat) are naturally given more FFEs to catch up with the latest21:15
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ttxdevananda: ok go21:15
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devanandattx: so, that blueprint was untargeted and the relevant patch -2'd last week21:16
devanandattx: and, as i undersatnd it, ironic's graduation potential is pinned on that work21:16
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ttxrussellb: around?21:16
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russellbdriver is blocked on driver CI21:17
devanandattx: also, the code hasn't gotten any meaningful feedback from nova reviewers yet, even though we started the work months ago21:17
russellbdevananda: was WIP for most of that time right?21:17
devanandarussellb: it was, yes, but WIP was removed ~ a month ago, I think21:17
russellbi3 is a dangerous time to rely on, heh21:17
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russellbbut the main blocker is CI21:18
russellbprobably discouraged folks from looking21:18
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dansmithwe're not merging drivers with no CI because we don't know if it works,21:18
dansmithso if we don't have CI, what's the point of looking at it?21:18
ttxhmm, what options do we have here (trying to wrap my head around this)21:18
devanandattx: so I'd like to be clear on whether that BP and the related work, nova "ironic" driver and CI for it, is a blocker for Ironic itself, or not21:18
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devanandaand if it is, what we can do to unblock it for Icehouse -- if anything21:19
russellbIMO, it is a blocker21:19
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russellbttx: it's blocked unless we give ironic a pass on the driver CI requirement21:19
russellbttx: and when i socialized that around nova, i found about zero support :-/21:19
devanandaI don't want to fork the user base any more than anyone else -- but my mind is currently split on this21:20
ttxdevananda: how far away are we to have proper driver CI ?21:20
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ttxis it a "few more days" thing or a "never anyway" one ?21:20
devanandaI would like to think we're close to getting devstack to set up the environment21:20
* devananda fins the link21:20
devananda#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70348/21:21
devanandait definitely needs more work -- it is breakign on some of the netron integration last I tried it21:21
ttxrussellb: what happens to the current baremetal driver ?21:21
russellbit stays for now21:21
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ttxrussellb: but it doesn't have proper Ci either, right ?21:21
lifelesscan I ask21:21
russellbwe're giving that a pass on the requirement to let ironic folks focus on ironic21:21
lifelessfrom a project perspective21:21
russellbsince that's where baremetal interest went21:22
lifelesscan TripleO switch to using Ironic before Ironic's driver is merged to Nova?21:22
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russellblifeless: i don't know, can it?21:22
ttxlifeless: I guess you could use an out-of-tree driver21:22
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lifelessrussellb: socially, culturally. Not technically.21:22
lifelesstechnical stuff is straight forward.21:23
devanandattx: my concern with keeping baremetal in nova another cycle: IMO, that _will_ create a split. fokls are already pushing strongly to get additional features in ironic21:23
russellbi think supporting both would be acceptable21:23
russellbsupporting only ironic seems kinda bad21:23
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russellbdevananda: how about parity and migration path from nova-baremetal?  any issues there?21:23
lifelessrussellb: nova baremetal is extremely tricky do deploy properly.21:23
russellbjust wondering if there's any other potential blockers21:23
lifelessrussellb: scale issues; HA issue.21:23
devanandarussellb: parity isn't an issue - we alraedy have more features than nova-bm21:23
lifelessrussellb: I have zero interest in solving those problems in nova baremetal.21:24
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russellbnot just more, but at least all of the same, yes?21:24
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russellblike, it's not missing some key feature nova-bm has, for example, even though it has all these other things21:24
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devanandato be extra clear21:25
russellbi ask because, you know, neutron has more features too :-)21:25
sdaguedevananda: so that devstack patch looks like it just has a bad format in one bit and hit a race in one of the tests21:25
devanandathere are two features in noav-bm that are not in tree fo rironic yet -- but patches are up and nearly ready to land21:25
devanandaie, this week21:25
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devananda*ie, i expect console and ephemeral support to land this week21:25
dansmithso then, not parity? :)21:25
russellbheh, but parity expected by feature freeze21:25
ttxrussellb: we could also consider that nova ironic driver is not a prerequisite for graduation. that would be "integration", as an Horizon panel.21:25
ttxso post-graduation21:26
russellbttx: well that's not what our graduation requirements say21:26
russellbttx: which were specifically written to avoid a bad situation from happening again21:26
russellbttx: so i'm -1 on that21:26
devanandathat section landed last week, which caught me a bit by surprise21:26
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russellbdevananda: you saw it way before it landed, come on ...21:26
devanandarussellb: not that long before ...21:27
russellbok, but not last week :)21:27
russellbyou commented jan 3121:27
russellbbut really, we can't allow another situation like we have with neutron21:27
dansmitheither way, approving another neutron (bomb) seems irresponsible21:27
lifelessagreed on avoiding the neutron issue21:27
russellband that's what we're allowing if we graduate ironic before we can deprecate the old thing21:27
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devanandai agree -- i definitely do not want this to become a similar fiasco21:28
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russellbok cool21:28
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lifelessrussellb: so what are the specific requirements for deprecating nova-bm ?21:28
russellblifeless: parity and a migration plan21:28
lifelessplan or implementation ?21:28
jgriffithlifeless: prototype :)21:28
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devanandarussellb: which is why i'm trying to figure out the shortest path to avoid another cycle of everyone's effort being split between two projects :)21:28
russellbimplementation, if there's code involved21:28
russellbcould just be docs21:28
lifelesslike, for migration, as a deployer I'd be entirely happy with use the API to copy settings from nova and push them to Ironic21:29
russellbi think keeping nova-bm is very little effort on our part21:29
ttxso I'm fine with granting a FFE to get the ironic driver in if the drievr CI is a bit late21:29
russellbsure, that's an option21:29
russellbif the driver is entirely self contained21:29
dansmithseems like a big FFE21:29
russellbreview bandwidth is an issue21:29
russellbbut theoretically possible21:29
russellbnova-core spread incredibly thin as it is21:30
russellbso need a heads up if we expect that to happen21:30
ttxBUT it won't work unless driver CI is up to snuff21:30
russellbso i can figure out who could review it21:30
devanandarussellb: lifeless: what do you see as the cost / impact of ironic not graduating // the nova-ironic driver not landing in Icehouse?21:31
ttxironic has been running after the clock all cycle21:31
lifelessSo, TripleO /needs/ HA and scale21:31
russellbif it's not ready, it's just not ready21:31
lifelessLike I say, I have 0 interest in the work needed to do that with nova-bm [as to why - thats a separate conversation]21:31
russellbi'm not willing to break rules and create another bad situation21:32
lifelessrussellb: sure, I'm not asking you to. Gimme a second here :)21:32
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devanandarussellb: that's fair. but i am concerned that both paths risk creating (different) bad situations21:32
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russellband it's also not fair to drivers who have busted their tails to get CI up21:32
russellbor the driver that may get removed next week over it21:32
ttxlifeless: could tripleO still use ironic (and an out-of-tree ironic driver) if it misses the Icehouse boat ?21:32
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lifelessSo, if Ironic isn't fully integrated, TripleO will have to choose between wrapping nova-bm in external tools (corosync, pacemaker) and the fugly that ensues to get HA.21:33
lifelessUsing Ironic with an out of tree Nova driver.21:33
russellblifeless: assuming you're pinned to Icehouse21:33
lifelessI think we'd choose the out of tree driver today, as the lesser of evils.21:33
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dansmithlifeless: this requirement has been in place for a long time21:33
russellblifeless: presumably you could use an in-tree driver if it landed early juno right?21:33
dansmithlifeless: like, a year21:33
lifelessrussellb: RH are -very- much intending to ship a product :)21:33
ttxlifeless: since TripleO isn't bound to releases, you could use an in-tree ironic early in Juno21:33
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russellblifeless: i'm aware, but i have my upstream hat on21:33
lifelessrussellb: and other vendors are planning to ship product too21:34
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devanandadansmith: which requirement has ben in place for a year?21:34
russellbvendor product desires are the least of my worries21:34
lifelessrussellb: right, and with my upstream hat on, I'm looking at the constituency of tripleo21:34
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dansmithdevananda: the CI requirement21:34
russellbi'm certainly not going to bend rules because of someone wanting to ship a product21:34
lifelessrussellb: which is all deployers21:34
lifelessrussellb: again, not asking you to21:34
russellbok, not sure why you brought it up then21:34
lifelessrussellb: I'm answering deva's quesetion about consequences of Ironi failing to integrate/graduate21:34
russellbbut anyway, you could use the in tree driver that lands early juno right?21:35
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russellband drivers are easy to backport, if some downstream wants to21:35
lifelessYes, and tell product folk to backport that to I21:35
ttx(since you're not bound to releases anyway)21:35
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ttxthat sounds like plan C21:35
lifelessso given that, I'm much more worried about Ironic API stability and driver fit-for-purpose than the integrated bit being set... *but*21:36
devanandadansmith: yes, but integration testing was always communicated to me as a post-graduation requirement. not a pre-graduation. but that's a bikeshed at this point.21:36
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lifelessthe integrated bit being set is a great proxy for those things.21:36
dansmithdevananda: yes (re: bikeshed)21:36
ttxso.. plan A is we get driver CI up to snuff, and the driver in nova (potentially using a FFE)21:36
russellbwhat was B, heh21:36
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devanandaheh, yea, i think i missed B too ?21:36
lifelessrun around screaming with hands in the air ?21:37
ttxok okok ok plan B21:37
lifelessdevananda: so you said your merge got -2'd21:37
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devanandalifeless: yes, and the BP was un-approved and un-targeted21:37
russellbbecause of driver CI, yes21:37
lifelessdevananda: which BP - CI? or driver?21:37
devanandarussellb: i'm surprised that it isn't even approved now21:37
ttxplan C would be to miss the Juno integration boat and land the driver early in Juno. TripleO uses an out of tree driver in the interim between the two21:37
devanandalifeless: driver in noav21:37
russellbdevananda: because everything has to be re-reviewed for juno21:37
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russellbjust what was done for everything21:38
devanandarussellb: ahhh gotcha.21:38
ttxprocess artifact21:38
russellband i have to say, the FFE thing worries me21:38
lifelessso question21:38
russellbbecause i'm afraid it will be incredibly difficult to get folks to review it21:38
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lifelesshow does the driver get CI without the driver being in tree?21:38
russellband if they do, they'll feel immense pressure to just approve asap, instead of giving it the review it deserves21:38
devanandarussellb: that's fair. a driver AND all the CI for it is not a small set of changes21:39
ttxand I won't approve it unless people are lined up to +2/APRV it21:39
russellblifeless: that's a technical question, that's easy :-p21:39
devanandalifeless: it's possible, technically21:39
lifelessrussellb: sure, but whats the answer ;)21:39
devanandasomething like this21:39
ttxtight schedule21:39
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devanandalifeless: land changes in devstack and tempest. add experimental check to nova pipeline. trigger it only on the patch sets that add the ironic driver21:39
russellba custom devstack-gate job that installs the driver first21:39
russellbor whatever21:39
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lifelessI guess what I'm asking21:40
lifelesssince we're all here21:40
lifelessis - are the devstack and tempest folk ok with how this will all fit together?21:40
lifelessor are we inventing as we go along?21:40
russellbon the devstack side, i think it's fine with the way it supports plugins21:40
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devanandathere's some precedent - we did something like this already to land our Ironic tempest changes21:41
dtroyerit looks good to me once it passes gate21:41
russellbyou can add whatever the heck you want to devstack by dropping in a couple new files21:41
dansmithhow much of tempest runs against ironic under nova, by the way?21:41
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devanandadansmith: can you rephrase that?21:41
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dansmithdevananda: how much of tempest runs against nova with ironic as the virt driver?21:41
russellbyou could stage the driver in a stackforge repo while you work on CI, or just install it from the right review, i guess21:41
devanandadansmith: none today21:41
dansmithdevananda: ?21:42
russellbyou mean, because it's not set up21:42
russellbi think he means, how much of the test suite do you expect to pass21:42
devanandadansmith: because the driver isn't in nova, and the devstack setup stuff is still being figured out21:42
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lifelessbasic deploy/undeploy/stop/start21:42
devanandasee patch I linked ~15 min ago21:42
dansmithdevananda: so you don't know?21:42
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lifelessnothing with virtual networking21:42
lifelessnothing ceilometer21:42
lifelessnothing trove21:42
devanandayea, i expect start/stop/SSH into node to all work21:42
dansmithif this isn't known at this point, I can't imagine that this is doable21:43
dansmithCI will not just go green,21:43
dansmithit will find tons of issues that have to be fixed,21:43
dansmiththen integrated into the proposal,21:43
dansmithre-reviewed, etc21:43
lifelessdansmith: I think its known but not written down.21:43
dansmithlifeless: it doesn't sound like that21:43
dansmith"I expect $foo to work"21:44
lifelessdansmith: anything that depends on virtualised infrastructure is not offered by nova-bm, nor by Ironic21:44
devanandait's certainly conceivable that tempest hammering nova + the nova-ironic driver will uncover a ton of issues21:44
devanandabut then21:44
devanandaif you did that to nova-bm you'd have a lot of problems too, I bet ;)21:44
dansmithdevananda: that's not really the point, as we're already giving a free pass for it21:44
ewindischdevananda: we've certainly found issues with the docker driver since running tempest against it. Surprisingly few so far, but issues nonetheless.21:44
dansmithdevananda: if we weren't, nova-bm and ironic would be out21:44
devanandadansmith: sure21:45
devanandaalso - whether ironic will pass CI or not is a bikeshed21:45
ttxtimeboxing this to 5 more minutes, we need to move on21:45
dansmithyou can't just "have CI" and have it all fail and expect to get in... :)21:45
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devanandadansmith: my point is, if there's no review bandwidth // too much doubt from other parties // etc21:46
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lifelessdansmith: I think devananda means that that is a matter for the folk pushing the work. Whether it passes on first push of the review, or 30th, is orthogonal to the requirements.21:46
devanandadansmith: then we won't devote what time is left in icehouse to that requirement21:46
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lifelessor not :P21:46
devanandadansmith: and we'll focus on the other important things21:46
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dansmithlifeless: I'm saying that it plays into the "can we possibly review this before icehouse" equation21:47
lifelessdansmith: ah yes21:47
dansmithttx: I'll shut up now21:47
ttxSummary is: this has run unfortunately late, plan B looks more unlikely as each hour passes, so we might need to consider plan C21:47
sdagueright, and I agree, if there aren't preliminary tempest results now, I don't think it's doable21:47
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devanandattx: thanks for giving this discussion some time21:47
ttxIt's sad because it all probably just needs one more month21:47
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ttxbut tripleO at least shouldn't be taht much affected if it can consume early Juno-landed stuff21:48
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ttxokn moving on21:48
lifelesstripleo will figure something out21:48
ttx#topic Incubated projects21:48
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ttxSergeyLukjanov, kgriffs; around ?21:49
ttxIt's a bit of the same topic actually21:49
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SergeyLukjanovttx, o/21:50
SergeyLukjanovre savanna i3 - https://launchpad.net/savanna/+milestone/icehouse-321:50
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SergeyLukjanoveverything is ok, all features and mostly all bug fixes under review21:50
SergeyLukjanovicehouse - targeted client released21:50
SergeyLukjanovbunch of API tests merged to tempest, several more on review21:50
SergeyLukjanovthe same with CLI tests21:50
SergeyLukjanovand I hope to be able to land some simple scenarios test21:50
ttxSergeyLukjanov: you plan to follow feature freeze next week ?21:51
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SergeyLukjanovttx, it sounds ok, we could probably not land some features patches that are under review21:51
SergeyLukjanovttx, but FFE will be ok for it21:52
ttxSergeyLukjanov: ack21:52
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SergeyLukjanovttx, I have two more questions :)21:53
ttxSergeyLukjanov: go for them21:53
SergeyLukjanovttx, is it ok to hack docs after i3 while we're incubated?21:53
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ttxsure! Doc (and test) fixes are not affected by feature freeze21:53
SergeyLukjanovttx, awesome21:53
ttxso you can also increase test coverage21:54
SergeyLukjanovttx, minus several FFEs :)21:54
SergeyLukjanovand where is the best place for start discussion about renaming?21:54
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SergeyLukjanovhonestly, I'm scared to rename after FF21:54
ttxSergeyLukjanov: we have the option to delay FF (icehouse-3) for savanna a bit too21:54
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ttxit's better if you can follow the regular one, but i agree that renaming would better happen BEFORE FF21:55
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SergeyLukjanovttx, I see two options - delay renaming to the time when Juno dev will be opened vs. delay FF21:55
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: I think it's better if the icehouse version carries the future name21:56
SergeyLukjanovfor the first look #1 looks more consistent - to have savanna i1, i2, it and I release21:56
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: but the message would be confusing. Savanna will be integrated in Juno under the name X ?21:57
ttxi1, i2 i3 are just intermediary milestones21:57
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ttxthey don't matter that much21:57
ttx#topic Open discussion21:57
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ttxSergeyLukjanov: other questions ?21:58
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SergeyLukjanovttx, I'm thinking about the ETA for renaming21:58
ttxSergeyLukjanov: i would prepare a change, just to be ready21:58
ttxSergeyLukjanov: and harass lauren to get early answers21:58
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ttxPSA: we shall open the design summit session suggestion site on Friday or Monday21:59
SergeyLukjanovwe should receive results of names validation at the end of this week + 1w to choose the new name + 1w to rename21:59
ttx#info Design summit session suggestion site shall open on Friday or Monday21:59
dhellmannttx: that seems early21:59
ttxdhellman_: we usually do it around FF21:59
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ttx~ 2 months before summit22:00
markmcclaincan we wait until Thursday?22:00
dhellmannttx: ok22:00
SergeyLukjanovttx, so, looks like we theoretically able to do renaming before the first rc122:00
ttxmarkmcclain: icehouse-3 day ?22:00
ttxmarkmcclain: to reduce the distraction ?22:00
dhellmannmarkmcclain: +122:01
markmcclainyeah… I'd be ok with after Thursday too22:01
ttxI guess I could procrastinate and make that happen22:01
ttxon those good words...22:01
dhellmannttx: don't push yourself too hard22:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Feb 25 22:01:32 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-25-21.01.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-25-21.01.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-02-25-21.01.log.html22:01
ttxthanks everyone22:01
SergeyLukjanovttx, thanks22:01
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