Tuesday, 2014-03-18

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SridharGHello everyone..14:02
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SridharGdo we have the Neutron IPV6 subteam meeting now?14:02
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sc68cal#startmeeting neutron_ipv614:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 14:02:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.14:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6'14:02
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sc68calSo - we have some good news14:03
sc68calthe subnet attributes patch was merged yesterday14:03
shshangWhat's it?14:03
shshangOh, cool!14:03
sc68caland part of dzyu's patch for EUI64 addresses14:03
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shshangThat's excellent! Congrats, sc68cal!14:03
sc68calwe had to split it though14:03
sc68calso we added the utility library14:03
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sc68calbut we did not patch db_base_plugin_v214:04
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sc68calHere's the bad news14:04
sc68calshshang's patch did not land14:04
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sc68calthere are concerns about networks with multiple v6 subnets14:04
shshangthat's fine. :)14:04
sc68calBasically if you have 2 v6 subnets with slaac14:05
shshangthat's means, I can take my time and no need to rush now14:05
sc68calno idea which prefix is going to be used14:05
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sc68calNow the good news is that since the attributes patch landed - no more rebasing to chase the HEAD alembic script14:06
shshangYup, that is true. :D14:06
baoliwell, I patched in the change, and tried it myself. the VM will get both prefixes.14:06
sc68calwhich was like 90% of the churn14:06
SridharGsc68cal: Did the client (python-neutronclient) side changes also got merged?14:06
xuhanpnot yet14:06
sc68calSridharG: good question14:06
xuhanpI got one -1 about unit test14:07
xuhanpI just restored it today14:07
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sc68calThe other possible piece is that for Icehouse14:07
sc68calwe may patch it so that the v6 attributes are not returned to API requests14:07
sc68calsince there is nothing behind the API - since the dnsmasq changes did not land14:08
sc68calbut once J opens - they'll undo the disable14:08
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sc68calso we'd be able to continue our work14:08
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sc68calOtherwise - I think we did a great job given the circumstances14:09
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sc68calEveryone - pat yourselves on the back14:09
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xuhanpsc68cal, do we still have time for my security group patch to get merged?14:10
sc68calxuhanp: since that is a bug - it is possible14:10
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xuhanpI have one small problem with the unit test due to recent code change.14:10
xuhanpsc68cal, good to know14:10
sc68cal#topic blueprints14:12
*** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:12
sc68cal#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron?searchtext=ipv6 Ipv6 Blueprints14:12
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sc68calSince we're moving towards RCs - make sure you've got your BPs all set14:13
sc68calbaoli: did we ever register a bp for prefix delegation?14:14
baolisc68cal, I did14:14
sc68caloh there it is14:14
sc68cal#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/ipv6-prefix-delegation Prefix Delegation14:14
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sc68calif there isn't anything else, we'll continue on14:15
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sc68cal#topic bugs14:15
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:15
sc68cal#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=ipv6 IPv6 tagged bugs14:16
shshangso if I understand you correctly, we won't be able to make the change to the code until Juno, is that correct?14:16
absubramsc68cal: Sean - congrats on getting the neutron side of the new IPv6 attributes getting merged last night14:16
sc68calshshang: Yes - so usually that's the week after the summit14:16
absubramunfortunately in the Horizon community, we decided to move the Horizon BP out to Juno14:16
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shshangOK, good to know. Thank you14:17
absubramit should go in very early in J hopefully14:17
sc68calabsubram: that's fine - since the attributes don't do anything currently14:17
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sc68calAny other bugs to discuss?14:17
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sc68cal#topic reviews14:18
*** openstack changes topic to "reviews (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:18
sc68calSo - I don't know if there is anything to report besides what we spoke about in the beginning14:19
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sc68calotherwise I'll turn us over to open discussion14:19
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xuhanpsc68cal, I hope more people can help review my security group bug patch if that's possible :-)14:19
xuhanpI kind of changed the design from the beginning14:20
sc68calcareful what you wish for :)14:20
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sc68calBut yes - we should review it since there's a chance of it getting merged for icehouse14:21
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sc68calanything else before we go to open discussion>14:21
shshangOther than that, we can celebrate, right? :)14:21
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sc68calI got my celebrating in yesterday - st. patrick's day and getting ipv6 stuff merged14:22
shshangGo GREEN! :D14:23
sc68calBut yes - everyone should be proud of the work we've done14:23
sc68calWe built a team and made Ipv6 a priority for Neutron14:23
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sc68calwe put it on the map, and it's only going to get better from here14:24
xuhanpsc68cal, good to have you as the lead!14:24
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sc68calHaha - well I don't think of it quite that way - I just start the meetings and end them14:24
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sc68calWe had some great work that was floating around in private forks and we just pulled them out into the public14:25
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sc68cal#topic open discussion14:25
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)"14:25
SridharGsc68cal: can you please share the link for the security group bug patch.14:25
sc68calSridharG: sure.14:26
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SridharGsc68cal: thanks14:26
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sc68calxuhanp: One thing that comes to mind14:27
sc68calyour TODO about finding the GUA for a router - if it's put in the subnet's gateway field14:27
sc68calbaoli: is GUA for a gateway unusual?14:28
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baolisc68cal, not sure.14:28
xuhanpsc68cal, you mean my TODO in my patch?14:28
sc68calI know we've probably talked about this a couple times - where we were thinking if the admin sets it that way- we just trust that they know what they're doing14:28
sc68calxuhanp: yes14:28
baolisc68cal, I think that we are talking about LLA here.14:29
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sc68calthe TODO on line 274 of xuhanp 's patch14:30
xuhanpwith my security group patch. Only LLA can be used when ra mode is off14:30
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xuhanpI think this is sc68cal is talking about?14:31
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sc68calI think so14:31
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sc68calbut for Comcast - we'd be setting a gateway IP that is a LLA14:31
sc68calsince it'd be a physical device that we know up front14:32
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baolisc68cal, that is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76125/14:32
sc68calright - for routers that neutron creates14:33
baoliIn that case, we should check if a qr-xxx port is created by neutron when the subnet is added into a router14:33
baoliIt doesn't seem to make sense to create a neutron port in that case.14:34
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xuhanpbaoli, you are saying we should not allow this subnet be attached to a router?14:35
shshangI am confused about which use case you guys refer to....14:35
shshangbaoli, would u plz elaborate?14:35
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sc68calif i'm not mistaken14:35
baolixuhanp, it's a provider net, right?14:35
sc68cal76125 allows you to create a subnet with a LLA address14:35
sc68calthen when you create a router for that subnet, it uses that LLA address14:36
sc68cal*attach a router that you've created14:36
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baolisc68cal, I think my qeustion is if it's a provider net, and ra is done externally, why would you need a neutron router14:36
sc68calbaoli: I don't think 76125 was meant to address that14:36
sc68calremember this patch was in response to the -1 that you did for another review14:37
sc68calwhere you created a v6 subnet14:37
sc68calthen created a router14:37
sc68calwith a pre-defined gateway IP that was an LLA address14:37
sc68caland when Neutron tried to set the router's IP to that LLA address that was stored in the subnet's gateway attribute - it blew up14:37
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baolisc68cal, I agree. So you are saying that this subnet with LLA gateway IP still needs to be added in a router?14:38
sc68calline 26414:38
baolisc68cal, I'm not questioning about the change.14:39
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sc68calI think all we're trying to fix was this error14:39
sc68cal400-{u'NeutronError': {u'message': u'Invalid input for operation: IP address fe80::2001:1 is not a valid IP for the defined subnet.', u'type': u'InvalidInput', u'detail': u''}}14:39
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sc68calwhich happened when you did openstack@devstack-16:~/devstack$ neutron router-interface-add 7cf084b4-fafd-4da2-9b15-0d25a3e27e67 myipv6sub14:40
sc68calbut I could be mistaken14:40
xuhanpsc68cal, I think baoli's question is do we ever need to do that.14:40
baolixuhanp, yes, that's my question with provider net14:41
xuhanpto attach a provider network to the router14:41
shshangif it is provider network, then neutron doesn't need to deal with qr- interface any more, right?14:41
xuhanpbaoli, I don't think neutron limit that provider network should not be attached to a router.14:41
sc68calI don't think this error was related to a provider network and external gateway14:41
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shshangso what sc68cal described is not applicable for provider network14:41
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sc68calthis was an error encountered when you were making a neutron router with a predefined gateway14:42
sc68calthat was an LLA14:42
sc68calNeutron would try and set the router's IP to an LLA address and the whole thing would blow up14:42
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baolisc68cal, yes. Now that the error is fiexed: a user can create a predefined gateway that's not on the subnet, would it make sense to add that subnet into the router any more?14:43
sc68calI don't think it is fixed14:43
xuhanpit was supported14:43
xuhanpsomeone wants to change it but Anthoy stopped that.14:44
xuhanpIf I remember correctly14:44
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baoliyes, I knew that it was allowed, then the restriction (gateway on the same subnet) was added later14:46
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xuhanpbaoli, yep. with a configuration flag14:48
shshangboali, yes, in ipv6 subnet case, it still makes sense to add that subnet to the router14:48
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baolishshang, can you explain?14:49
shshangI think the use case you mentioned is valid, only for IPv614:49
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shshang"a user can create a predefined gateway that's not on the subnet, would it make sense to add that subnet into the router any more?"14:49
sc68calI believe that's the only way that subnet would be able to get traffic out14:49
sc68calif the gateway IP is an LLA address14:50
sc68calotherwise the router attach step fails and the subnet has no gateway14:50
shshangI remember in IPv6, you can add the GUA as default gateway, and you can also add LLA as default gateway14:50
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shshangThe latter case is the scenario baoli wants to address, right?14:50
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shshangthe former case will pass the check, but the latter case will blow up, because the checkpoint think it is not in the same subnet14:51
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shshangIs my understanding correct, baoli?14:51
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baolishshang, if you create a subnet with a LLA gateway, and then add it to a router.14:51
baoliyou would end up having two LLAs on the qr-xxx port14:52
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sc68calare we sure of that14:52
shshangone is predefined, one is auto-calculated, right?14:52
baolishshange, right14:52
sc68calcurrently it just blows up - no router is created14:53
sc68calso there are no qr-xxx ports14:53
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baoliPlus, it's against the routing principle to allow a gateway not on the same subnet to forward the subnet's traffic.14:53
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baoliThat's why my question about adding such a subnet into a router.14:53
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sc68calbut LLAs are not on the same subnet14:54
sc68calin the way Neutron thinks of things being on the same subnet14:54
sc68calam I following this correctly? please let me know if I am mistaken14:55
baolisc68cal, if a gateway with the LLA is external, then it shouldn't be added into a router with the same LLA. But as you said, it's up to the admin to do the right thing. In that case, it would be fine14:55
shshangbaoli, now I see your point...I am not sure about whether it is legal to have more than 1 LLA. Let me double check14:55
sc68calbaoli: The gateway is not external14:55
baolishshang, it's legal14:56
sc68calThis is for a subnet that you create - with a predefined LLA address, that you then create a router in neutron14:56
sc68calthat will use that LLA address that was set as the subnet's gateway14:56
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sc68calwhich currently fails14:56
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sc68calthis has nothing to do with an external gateway that is a physical device14:56
sc68calam I correct?14:56
sc68calok - we need to take this to the mailing list14:57
sc68calwe've probably discussed this a couple times and not gotten anywhere - so I will start a thread on the ML14:57
shshangbaoli, according to Cisco doc,  multiple IPv6 link-local addresses on an interface are not supported14:57
baolisc68cal, if that's the case, the change (or fix), I think, will be different.14:57
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baolishshang, cisco is not supporting it14:57
baolibut others do14:58
baoliit doesn't seem to be useful with multiple LLAs14:58
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sc68calbaoli: I don't agree - I think xuhanp's change fixes14:58
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sc68calok - I'll post on the ML14:59
sc68calthanks everyone14:59
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baolisc68cal, we can discuss on the ML14:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"14:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 14:59:37 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)14:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-18-14.02.html14:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-18-14.02.txt14:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-03-18-14.02.log.html14:59
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bauzas#startmeeting gantt15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 15:00:03 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'gantt'15:00
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bauzashi all, someone here to discuss about scheduler ?15:00
bauzaslet's wait a few minutes15:01
bauzasis boris-42 there ?15:01
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bauzasthe first topic is about discussing no-db scheduler blueprint15:01
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bauzasbut we can move forward and go to the 2nd topic15:02
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bauzas#topic scheduler forklift15:02
*** openstack changes topic to "scheduler forklift (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:02
bauzas#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/icehouse-external-scheduler15:03
* johnthetubaguy waves, but is a bit distracted15:03
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bauzasso, there are 2 blueprints for the forklift15:03
bauzas#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/remove-cast-to-schedule-run-instance15:04
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bauzas#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib15:04
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johnthetubaguyyeah, just looking at the draft change there15:04
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: thanks15:04
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bauzasmaybe could you please put me owner of https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/scheduler-lib ?15:04
johnthetubaguydoesn't seem quite right yet, but I see the idea15:04
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: that's the goal of FF15:05
johnthetubaguybauzas: what is your lp nic?15:05
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johnthetubaguyyou are going to need a better spec for this I think, would be good to rough that out15:05
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I'm taking FF as an opportunity for drafting the patch15:05
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: we can open a distinct etherpad or create a wiki page15:06
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: both are fine with me15:06
johnthetubaguysure, wiki could work15:06
bauzasok, taking action to create it15:07
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johnthetubaguyNeed to be clearer about the split15:07
bauzas#action bauzas Create a wiki page for spec'ing bp scheduler-lib15:07
johnthetubaguynova db stuff stays in nova db15:07
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johnthetubaguythink about the information flow15:07
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: ComputeNode shall be thought to be stored in Gantt15:08
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: especially if we consider moving to memcached15:08
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: for storing host states15:08
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bauzasanyone left wanting to see the draft ?15:09
bauzas#link https://review.openstack.org/8011315:09
mspreitzyes, I would like to see it15:10
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bauzasok, will add you as reviewer15:10
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bauzasmspreitz: doen15:10
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PaulMurraybauzas I would like to look15:10
johnthetubaguybauzas: I think you are hooking up too high15:11
bauzasPaulMurray: done15:11
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johnthetubaguynova service status will stay in nova after the split I feel15:11
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: oh, seems there was a confusion15:11
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: service status should stay in Nova, right15:11
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: computenode status should move to Gantt15:11
johnthetubaguyyep, scheduler probably has to have its own copy of that state15:12
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: ok, seeing my mistake15:12
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: that one should be replaced by a call to memcached (at the end of the story of course)15:12
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: see the discussion around no-db-scheduler15:12
johnthetubaguyI don't agree with that, but it doesn't really matter right now15:13
johnthetubaguyits certainly a valid option15:13
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: yey, let's discuss this at the summit15:13
bauzasthat's not that important for now15:13
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johnthetubaguyso if scheduler lib is just:15:13
johnthetubaguyand the select_destination15:13
johnthetubaguywould that work?15:14
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johnthetubaguyso scheduler right now just sends it to the conductor today, later it sends it to the scheduler15:14
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johnthetubaguythen thats about it I think…?15:14
johnthetubaguynice simple client15:14
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I was thinking to replace _sync_compute_node()15:15
bauzasof the RT15:15
johnthetubaguyyeah, thats way too big I feel15:15
johnthetubaguyits really just compute node plus a dict sent to the scheduler right?15:15
PaulMurraybauzas conductor_api.compute_node_update is going away because of objects, but15:15
johnthetubaguywe need to agree the format mind15:15
PaulMurraythere will be somethings imilar that can be done15:15
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johnthetubaguyPaulMurray: agreed, its just that operation15:15
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: PaulMurray: ok, let's discuss this on the wikipagfez15:15
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I see your idea15:16
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johnthetubaguybasically client should be a single line seam in nova15:16
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: should we consider that ComputeNode should stay in Nova ?15:16
johnthetubaguyI think you got select_destinations spot on15:16
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bauzasyey, that's the issue with RT15:17
bauzasbecause select_destinations() is already decoupled15:17
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johnthetubaguyyeah, ComputeNode will stay in nova, I think you need to call nova method, and scheduler call at the moment, but not totally sure about it, I think I see your idea more now15:17
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bauzasbut RT is having tight dependency with the schedulret15:17
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johnthetubaguywell it could all go into oslo, but yes, need to deal with these things15:18
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: ok, let's all of us take a few amout of time discussing about the split itself15:18
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: and see what we must do step-by-step15:18
bauzass/must/shall (better :) )15:18
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bauzasPaulMurray: I still have to review https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/make-resource-tracker-use-objects15:19
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bauzasok, I'm done with this topic15:20
bauzasanyone else has to add something ?15:20
PaulMurrayjusta thought15:20
PaulMurraythere is some code that is on scheduler and compute node side15:20
PaulMurrayto do with claims15:20
PaulMurrayon compute node and15:21
PaulMurrayconsuming from host state on scheduler15:21
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PaulMurraywould be good to think if that needs to be the way15:21
digambarthis url is not opening up15:21
bauzasclaims are only located on resourcetracker, right?15:21
PaulMurraybut the effect of a claim is15:21
PaulMurrayrepeated in host state15:21
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PaulMurrayon sheduler15:21
bauzasdigambar: please give me your Gerrit username so I could add you as reviewer15:22
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PaulMurrayits just something to think about15:22
bauzasPaulMurray: see your point, and already thought about it15:22
bauzasPaulMurray: the idea is that RT objects should place a call to scheduler-lib for updating states15:22
johnthetubaguyPaulMurray: yeah, its getting the write slice, I am think duplicate state for the first cut, but not sure15:22
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bauzaseither in claims or thru the update_available_resources() method15:23
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PaulMurraybauzas one of the problems15:23
PaulMurrayI had to deal with in extensible rRT15:23
bauzasdigambar: I already added you, please check that you are logged in15:23
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PaulMurrayis that a new resource has to be implemented at compute node and scheduler15:23
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bauzasPaulMurray: I see your problem15:24
PaulMurrayso to allow split I did a plugin for both, but could have been one plugin15:24
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PaulMurrayIt may be a limitation to live with, but there might be another way to factor the code long term15:24
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: that's one of the reason IMHO I think ComputeNode should get rid of Nova and be stored only in Gantt15:24
johnthetubaguyPaulMurray: object shoud be a good plugin point… good point15:24
johnthetubaguybauzas: yeah, ComputeNode probably should go, but service stays, my bad15:25
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bauzasok, let's write the rationale and see how it integrates with extensible RT15:25
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johnthetubaguybauzas: a new resource tracker that is gnatt specific could be the other way, but that seems too broad15:25
johnthetubaguyPaulMurray: does the object work make this clearer?15:26
bauzashence the hook on RT.update_available_resource()15:26
PaulMurrayNot really15:26
bauzasRT should stay in Nova15:26
johnthetubaguyhmm, just thinking, could compute node be like instance and cells and report to scheduler vs nova15:26
johnthetubaguyyeah RT will be in Nova15:27
digambarhow to configure https://github.com/openstack/gantt repo to openstack15:27
digambarfor replacing existing scheduler to use this new one ?15:27
bauzasdigambar: gantt is currently not ready to be integrated15:27
digambarthen we have to test it off way15:28
johnthetubaguybauzas: I think I like what you have done now, thinking about this more...15:28
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: provided I find some way to request nova service either way15:28
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: that's a big showstopper15:29
johnthetubaguybauzas: don't understand you15:29
johnthetubaguybauzas: the blocker for me is removing the old code from resource tracker.py15:29
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: the service table will stay in Nova15:30
johnthetubaguybauzas: yeah, service table will be in Nova, gnatt will need its own copy of that15:30
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: so that the call to _get_service() requires an external call15:30
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: a copy or an API call ?15:30
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: I don't like much caching objects :)15:31
johnthetubaguybauzas: I think its getting the correct data split15:31
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johnthetubaguygnatt should have its own view of what services it knows about15:31
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johnthetubaguynova-computes and nova-volumes15:31
johnthetubaguyNova needs to maintain its own list15:31
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johnthetubaguyand we need to plug in correctly15:31
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: well, that means that creating a Nova service must end up to create it as well on Gantt15:32
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: why can't we consider that Gantt is discovering services using a REST call ?15:32
bauzasthanks to python-novaclient15:32
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johnthetubaguybauzas: not sure I understand what you are trying to say, but I think we are agreeing, just prehaps not on the implementation15:33
bauzastaking the point15:33
johnthetubaguythere are two things15:33
johnthetubaguyis the service alive, just like nova-network or whatever15:34
johnthetubaguywhat stats does the service have15:34
johnthetubaguyfor the compute node15:34
johnthetubaguywe need the first in nova15:34
johnthetubaguythe second goes in gnatt15:34
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johnthetubaguyOK, so I think we agree15:34
johnthetubaguymy plan for this is thus….15:35
bauzasbut the question is : how gantt can discover nova data ?15:35
bauzasfor services15:35
johnthetubaguymake nova-scheduler not make any DB calls, except for the above compute node stats15:35
johnthetubaguymake no other service access the compute node stats15:35
bauzasthat's right15:35
johnthetubaguyusing coding similar to how nova-compute is unable to directly contact the db15:35
johnthetubaguythen we can start to prove the split inside the Nova tree15:36
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johnthetubaguyI think thats the goal here15:36
bauzas#agreed make nova-scheduler not make any DB calls, except for the above compute node stats15:36
bauzas#agreed make no other service access the compute node stats15:36
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bauzasok, let's move on and discuss about the implementation on the wiki page15:36
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bauzasany other things to mention on that topic ?15:36
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johnthetubaguyI think we can do this in the code review now, but lets see how it goes15:37
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bauzas#topic no-db-scheduler15:37
*** openstack changes topic to "no-db-scheduler (Meeting topic: gantt)"15:37
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bauzasI have nothing to say here, but maybe there is a discussion on -dev about a scalable scheduler that could make use of it15:38
johnthetubaguyoh, have you got a link?15:38
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bauzas#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030084.html15:39
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johnthetubaguyoh right15:39
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: the problem is about instance groups and race condition happening15:39
johnthetubaguyyep, I responded to that saying I agree with Russells fix, not read the response to that15:40
bauzasso I would be interested in knowing what's the status of no-db-scheduler bp15:40
johnthetubaguyit got deferred for being too risky in Juno15:40
bauzasyey, of course15:40
johnthetubaguyif its not optional I will −2 it because it requires a dependency15:40
johnthetubaguynew depedency^15:40
bauzasjohnthetubaguy: we just need to make sure if it can handle this issue15:41
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johnthetubaguyI like the general ideas as an option15:41
bauzasthere is one stackforge project about distributed locking, called tooz15:41
bauzasit would be nice to see if there are mutual concerns for this15:42
johnthetubaguyhmm, I don't mind that being later15:42
bauzasand I personnally do think15:42
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johnthetubaguydon't want too many dependencies, but also what to share code eventually15:42
mspreitzbauzas: what do you mean by mutual concerns for tooz?15:43
bauzasmspreitz: I mean that distributed locking mechanism is one of the goals for memcached scheduler states15:43
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mspreitzbauzas: you mean no-db-scheduler should use tooz?15:44
bauzasthat could be one option yes15:44
bauzasand tooz could also add a backend memcached plugin15:45
bauzasin order to minimize the dependencies15:45
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johnthetubaguyyeah, thats something for after the current code merges15:45
bauzasof course :-)15:45
johnthetubaguygood good15:45
PaulMurraybauzas I have a question15:46
bauzasok, thats'it for me on that topic15:46
bauzasPaulMurray: sure15:46
PaulMurraydon't want to open it up too much15:46
PaulMurraybut it seems that this dicussion is gonig towards a general15:46
PaulMurrayconfiguration service15:46
PaulMurrayyou know, like zoo keeper15:47
PaulMurrayI can see why15:47
PaulMurraydo you see the scheduler15:47
bauzastooz is based on zk :-)15:47
PaulMurraytaking that role or do you think something else should15:47
bauzasthat's the current default driver15:47
PaulMurrayand scheduler should use that service15:47
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bauzasPaulMurray: that's too early for answering it :)15:47
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PaulMurraybut thanks anyway - didn't know about tooz15:48
bauzasfor Juno, we should just make sure the paths won't diverge too much15:48
bauzasbut that could be an opportunity for a later cycle15:48
PaulMurrayBTW I hate zookeeper15:48
bauzashence the plugin mechanism :d15:48
bauzaswrite your own ;)15:48
johnthetubaguyyeah, that an interesting one15:49
bauzasI agree that now we should focus on memcached scheduler15:49
bauzasbut just make sure that the interfaces are flexible enough for accepting a new backend15:49
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johnthetubaguyerm, well I think we need to focus on the split, which gives the memcached scheduler a good plugging in point15:50
bauzasthe few I read about the reviews make me think it's the case15:50
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: yey, both efforts are separated15:50
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bauzasjohnthetubaguy: but both can profit15:50
bauzaslet's discuss this at the summit15:50
bauzasand that leads me to the next topic15:51
johnthetubaguybauzas: not so sure anymore, I have a feeling the no-db-scheduler needs the split to plugin in an optional way15:51
johnthetubaguysure, do continue...15:51
bauzas#topic open discussion15:51
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bauzasa quick FYI : http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/8015:51
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bauzasat the moment, I don't have a need for another discussion15:52
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johnthetubaguydo you want to cover no-db-scheduler?15:52
bauzasI'm not the owner15:52
bauzasI will send an email to boris-4215:53
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johnthetubaguysounds good15:53
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bauzasand see if he plans to promote it15:53
bauzasthat's it for me15:53
bauzaswe're having 5 mins lefty15:53
bauzasany other subject to discuss ?15:53
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PaulMurraywhat's the abbrieviation for I"I hear the tumble weeds blowing in the wind"?15:55
johnthetubaguyd.o.n.e ?15:55
bauzasno shout, no doubt :)15:55
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:55
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 15:55:42 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:55
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-18-15.00.html15:55
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-18-15.00.txt15:55
bauzasthanks all15:55
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-03-18-15.00.log.html15:55
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jd__bauzas: we know have a minimal memcached backend ready to be merged in tooz FWIW15:56
bauzasjd__: that's great :)15:57
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bauzasjd__: that's something we should see if it's worth using it for memcached scheduler:)15:57
jd__bauzas: yeah I don't know what you need right now, but if you want to discuss let me know15:58
jd__we'd be happy to have a first consumer15:58
bauzasI think at summit time15:58
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bauzasok, leaving the chan now15:58
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boris-42#startmeeting Rally17:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 17:01:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'rally'17:01
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boris-42marcoemorais hughsaunders stannie meeting17:01
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stannieyes boris-4217:03
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boris-42stannie hey there=)17:04
boris-42msdubov ping17:04
boris-42penguinRaider ping17:04
penguinRaiderboris-42, pong17:04
boris-42marcoemorais ping17:04
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msdubovboris-42 hi17:05
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boris-42so let start17:07
boris-42our meeting stuff17:08
boris-42#topic Benchmarking future steps17:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Benchmarking future steps (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:08
boris-42So stannie  you are improving perfromance of generic cleanup?17:09
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stannieyes boris-42 I am going to work on CleanupContext17:09
stanniehaven't started yet17:09
stanniethe task is to add a special decorator for CleanupContext that will increase the performance by having a a generic cleanup17:10
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stanniee.g @cleanup(["service1", "service2"]) will only run cleanup for service1 and 217:11
stannieservice1 can be nova17:11
boris-42yep yep17:11
stannieservice2 e.g cinder etc17:11
boris-42stannie btw Kun will work on another improvment17:12
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stannieok so he is depending on my patch ?17:12
boris-42but he will improve as well generic clenaup17:12
boris-42to cleanup only users that we actually used17:12
boris-42e.g. if we have 10k users but run tests only 1k times (we don't need to cleanup all 10k users)17:13
msdubovboris-42 Have you started the work on the StressRunner?17:13
boris-42msdubov nope I didn't..17:13
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msdubovboris-42 Ok I'll take it then if you're not against17:13
boris-42msdubov okay17:13
boris-42stannie hmm so I think that everybody agrees with that stuff?17:14
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boris-42stannie with having decorator that cleans only specified services?)17:14
hughsaundersless cleaning, less waiting17:14
boris-42hughsaunders yep17:14
boris-42msdubov btw yes I am against17:14
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boris-42msdubov don't touch stress test17:15
msdubovboris-42 why&17:15
boris-42msdubov until you finish your patch with refactoring of utils17:15
msdubovboris-42 sure17:15
boris-42msdubov or let Kun make it..17:15
boris-42msdubov or finish it by self..17:15
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msdubovboris-42 I suppose we'll continue the work with Kun on the processing utils after we merge https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79970/17:16
boris-42msdubov it is not related...17:16
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boris-42msdubov to your work at all17:17
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boris-42msdubov so pls concentrate on first patch with utils17:17
boris-42msdubov cause it blocks everything17:17
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boris-42msdubov "stress" runner doesn't block anything17:17
msdubovboris-42 ok17:18
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boris-42hughsaunders are you working on passing context to scenario?)17:19
hughsaundersboris-42: yep, but slowly17:19
hughsaundersneeds big rebase17:19
boris-42hughsaunders hmm I didn't touch that part too much?)17:20
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boris-42so okay let move17:22
boris-42let's move17:22
boris-42So I am going to finish work (by the end of this wekk)17:22
boris-42and build ContextManger that will handle what context to run and what context are required by benchmark17:22
boris-42this will finish work on BenchmarkStuff17:23
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boris-42So I will concentrate on other parts of projects17:23
boris-42E.g. tempest & deploy stuff17:23
boris-42And thoughts about benchmarking in VMs17:23
boris-42hughsaunders msdubov  stannie btw does anybody have any questions?)17:24
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boris-42I mean seems like it's clear what and why we are doing=)17:24
hughsaundersseems clear to me17:24
boris-42seems like Rally team works even without meetings =(17:24
boris-42or probably I should be happy=)17:25
boris-42# Tempest stuff17:25
msdubovYep, there is actually the guiding doc17:25
msdubovso it's clear17:25
boris-42#topic Tempest stuff17:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Tempest stuff (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:25
boris-421. We should improve config generation (to make it works in any case017:25
boris-42I think that somebody should start playing with it… and catching all mistakes in configs17:26
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boris-422. We should create benchmark scenario that will run tempest scenario17:26
boris-42Seems like this work is quite close to be finished17:27
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boris-42we will use "verification" stuff to make proper configuration for tempest17:27
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boris-42and we will have TempestContext17:27
boris-42that will "activate" virtualenv with all stuff from tepest and run tempest unit test17:27
boris-42and in cleanup it will "deactivate"17:28
boris-42So seems like it's clear here as well hughsaunders penguinRaider stannie msdubov ?17:28
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msdubovpoint 1. : Is it clear who will handle this "catching mistakes" stuff?17:29
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msdubovreally lots of work as we discussed it today17:29
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boris-42msdubov probably you?)17:29
msdubovboris-42 Certainly not this week then...17:29
boris-42msdubov it's okay17:30
penguinRaidermsdubov, boris-42 I can do that maybe ?17:30
boris-42penguinRaider yep sure17:30
msdubovboris-42 Actually my thought was that this should be done by 2-3 people17:30
msdubovso we could do it together17:30
boris-42actually Olga is already working on this stuff17:30
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boris-42but she need help17:30
boris-42cause task takes a lot of time and it's quite big17:30
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amaretskiyjust to note, i am ready for some kind of work17:31
boris-42amaretskiy okay nice17:31
boris-42amaretskiy penguinRaider let's speak today and coordinate this work with Olga17:31
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boris-42# Deploy stuff17:33
boris-42#topic Deploy stuff17:33
*** openstack changes topic to "Deploy stuff (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:33
boris-42hughsaunders penguinRaider amaretskiy msdubov  guys we should help rediskin17:33
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boris-42to finish at least multi host engine17:33
msdubovboris-42 Do you mean code reviews?17:33
msdubovor other kind of help?17:33
boris-42msdubov code reviews and testing patches17:34
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msdubovhard to do code review without testing patches in case of rediskin =)17:34
hughsaundersyep, I removed -1 today, but need to retest17:34
boris-42msdubov lol17:34
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boris-42#topic Free discussion17:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)"17:35
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boris-42msdubov hughsaunders  penguinRaider amaretskiy does anybody have any questions about Rally/RoadMap/any stuff...17:36
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amaretskiyi don't17:36
penguinRaiderboris-42, hughsaunders msdubov I need help regarding my application for gsoc17:36
hughsaunderspenguinRaider: what needs doing?17:36
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penguinRaiderI need a unifying theme for the proposal17:36
boris-42penguinRaider yep you should share with them17:36
tzabaldo you have any proposed changes for the output of the tasks?17:36
boris-42tzabal hi!17:37
boris-42tzabal ?)17:37
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penguinRaiderhi tzabal :-)17:37
tzabalhello :)17:37
boris-42tzabal out of task you mean CLI or Graphics?)17:37
hughsaunderspenguinRaider: is your proposal available somewhere to read?17:37
penguinRaiderhughsaunders, yeah I made a rough first draft will share with you17:38
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tzabali was thinking about putting the average, min, max results that we have in CLI, in the report of plot2htm17:38
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mwagner_lapis there a way to dump the actual openstack calls rally is making ?17:38
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boris-42mwagner_lap all calls?17:39
boris-42mwagner_lap all API calls you mean?)17:39
boris-42mwagner_lap actually if you run it with -d you will get all calls..17:39
mwagner_lapok cool17:39
boris-42mwagner_lap it will be just debug mode (and all http request will be shown with all details)17:40
boris-42tzabal so that is the work that started msdubov17:40
boris-42tzabal but he didn't finished yet first patch17:40
boris-42tzabal after he finish work you may share this task with Kun17:41
boris-42msdubov ^ pls help with organizing work on this17:41
tzabalboris-42 ok17:41
boris-42mwagner_lap so actually I have one idea17:41
msdubovboris-42 ok17:41
mwagner_lapjust one :)17:41
boris-42mwagner_lap to collect more data form our benchmarking stuff17:41
boris-42mwagner_lap =)17:41
boris-42mwagner_lap one for you=)17:41
boris-42mwagner_lap at this second=)17:41
tzabalboris-42 do you have any proposed change for the plot2html stuff?17:42
boris-42tzabal nope17:42
* mwagner_lap waits anxiously17:42
boris-42tzabal btw I have idea what you may do17:42
boris-42tzabal until you are waiting for msdubov17:42
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boris-42tzabal draw histogram (with possibility on Y and duration on X)17:43
boris-42tzabal interested ?17:43
tzabalboris-42 yeap17:43
boris-42tzabal okay I will share with details after meeting17:43
boris-42mwagner_lap so17:43
boris-42mwagner_lap actually as you see we are doing active pooling of resource17:43
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boris-42mwagner_lap e.g. checking status of VM until it becomes "Acitve"17:43
boris-42mwagner_lap yep?17:43
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mwagner_lapboris-42, actually trying to figure out how to do that now17:44
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boris-42mwagner_lap it's already done..17:45
mwagner_laptryting to figure out how you bypass the instance database17:45
boris-42mwagner_lap not sure that understand queiston=)17:45
boris-42mwagner_lap First step send request to create VM17:45
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boris-42mwagner_lap second step in while do get_vm_by_uuid17:45
boris-42mwagner_lap if it is Active stop while, if it is in Error state raise Exception17:46
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mwagner_lapas I mentioned earlier this morning, if i run the "boot" task, vms get created and are left running but they dont show up via nova list and they are not in the instance database17:47
mwagner_lapwhich doesn't delete them from the db17:47
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mwagner_lapthey show up in a ps -ef | grep qemu on the hypervisor but in virsh list --all17:47
mwagner_lapso procs are running but no record of them from the openstack or libvirt perspective17:48
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boris-42mwagner_lap so seems like you didn't get my response17:49
boris-42mwagner_lap the reason why you didn't see them is that you try to list admin's VMs17:49
boris-42mwagner_lap and Rally creates VMs from temporary users17:49
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mwagner_lapboris-42, i did get that but shouldn't all the vms show up in the "systems" instance table ?17:52
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boris-42mwagner_lap "systems"?17:53
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mwagner_lapfrom an openstack pov there should be an accounting of the resources used17:53
boris-42mwagner_lap they should be showed in "instances" table17:53
mwagner_lapthey are not showing up in mine, but they are running on the hypervisor17:54
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boris-42mwagner_lap hmm strange17:56
boris-42mwagner_lap they should be all in DB17:56
boris-42mwagner_lap and if you are looking in Horizon17:57
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boris-42mwagner_lap they should be listed in "instances"17:57
mwagner_laphorizon does not show them and 'virsh list' doesn't list them either17:57
boris-42mwagner_lap at admin page17:57
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mwagner_lapvirsh list on the hypervisor17:57
boris-42mwagner_lap okay lets disccuss this in rally chat17:57
mwagner_lapbogdando, right not even with the admin page17:57
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:58
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 17:58:08 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:58
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-03-18-17.01.html17:58
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-03-18-17.01.txt17:58
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-03-18-17.01.log.html17:58
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stevemaro/ /o/ \o \o\18:00
bknudsondolphm: hi18:00
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dolphmayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76: ping18:00
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dolphm#startmeeting keystone18:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 18:01:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'18:01
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* ayoung here18:01
dolphm#topic Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th18:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Reminder: Design summit session proposals open until April 20th (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:01
dolphm#link http://summit.openstack.org/18:01
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dolphmthis is for the *design* summit, not the conference18:01
ayoungdolphm, I assume we are already at the point where we can start merging the proposals18:01
bknudsonlots of keystone topics already18:02
dolphmayoung: i'd like to wait until after the deadline to accept/reject/merge anything so it's clear what we're working with18:02
stevemarhow many slots do we have?18:02
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ayoungassuming I can count, which is a big assumption18:02
ayoungstevemar, 318:02
dolphmayoung: otherwise it seems unfair to start shuffling things too early18:02
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ayoungwe had about 8 last time18:02
dolphmstevemar: fewer than last time, as we're donating some time to a new cross-project track18:02
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dolphmstevemar: i don't think i have a final number yet18:02
ayoungone days worth, spread over multiple days18:02
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ayoungour client stuff maybe can be merged with the Oslo common client18:03
ayoungand then we can make sure anything that is a server side topic at least addresses client side for that same topic18:03
dolphmand as a reminder for what the *design* summit is all about if you'd like to propose something: this is for moderated collaborative discussions, not for powerpointy lectures :)18:03
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stevemardown with ppts18:04
gyeeand with prototype demos18:04
dolphmi believe the deadline for proposing powerpointy lectures for the conference has passed18:04
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dolphmgyee: i'd submit that demos are best saved for lightning talks18:04
dolphmwhich you don't need to register for in advance18:04
gyeesounds reasonable18:05
ayoungreally, the week will be spent doing collaborative development in the dev lounge.  the rest is just distractions18:05
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dolphmgyee: plus if your demo fails, you can sit down and just try again the next day :P18:05
gyeedolphm, we'll do live debugging18:05
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ayoungFeature freeze for Keystone  will be Juno 2. If you want a big feature in to Juno, you need to have it started before the summit18:05
ayoungright morganfainberg ?18:05
* ayoung thinking ephemeral tokens18:06
henrynashayoung: oh, yes please18:06
dolphmthe bigger the feature, the earlier the better18:06
gyeethat will be a *fun* discussion18:06
marekdayoung: and J-2 is happening when?18:06
dolphmmarekd: probably july, there's no schedule yet18:06
lbragstadwell find out the schedule at the summit right?18:07
lbragstador shortly after?18:07
bknudsonwe'll need people doing reviews early, too, then18:07
dolphmbknudson: we could do a very early feature proposal freeze, rather than feature freeze18:07
dolphmthis might be a conversation best saved for the summit, but it's good to give everyone an early warning here18:08
dolphm#topic RC1-blocking issues18:08
*** openstack changes topic to "RC1-blocking issues (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
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dolphmi wanted to run through what's on our plate for shipping an RC118:08
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dolphmmy goal is to have fixes for all RC1 issues at least in review by friday18:09
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dolphm#link https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/icehouse-rc118:09
dolphmso let's run through the list18:09
morganfainbergo/ here sorry18:09
dolphmBug 1291157: idp deletion should trigger token revocation18:09
dolphm(no linky bot?)18:09
dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/129115718:10
morganfainbergayoung, ++ at least work on it18:10
morganfainbergdolphm, bot has been dead for week+18:10
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dolphmmarekd: ayoung: stevemar: i'm comfortable shipping icehouse with this as a known issue, but i'd be happy to see a fix if anyone wants to pursue18:10
dolphmi'm worried we're going to get into api conversations, and it's far too late for that18:11
ayoungdolphm, I don't want to do list_tokens_for_idp but doing it in the revocation events makes sense18:11
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bknudsonis it going to require a schema change?18:11
dstanekstevemar: does a revocation need to happen on ipd update too?18:11
dolphmayoung: i think it'd just be a matter of adding "OS-FEDERATION:identity_provider"18:12
stevemardstanek, it probably should18:12
ayoungbknudson, for revocation events, it could probably be done with the domain ids, assuming they are valid.  otherwise, yeah, I'd need to add an IOdP column18:12
dolphm... as an attribute of a revocation event18:12
dolphmstevemar: dstanek: why? there's not too much to update, is there?18:12
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ayoungdolphm, what did we settle on as the relationship between IdPs and (identity) domains?18:13
dstanekdolphm: i have to reasoning...it was mentioned in the issue18:13
dolphmayoung: no explicit relationship in icehouse18:13
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stevemardolphm, if we use revoke instead of delete, wouldn't we then create a dependency on an optional extension?18:13
marekddolphm: stevemar  dstanek actually you can only disable idp when you PATCH it18:13
stevemarthanks marekd18:13
ayoungdolphm, do userids from Federation have a domain_id associated with them in icehouse?18:13
ayoungstevemar, nope18:13
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ayoungstevemar, the event API insulates one from the other18:14
dolphmstevemar: yes, but i'd say it's acceptable for extensions to depend on one another18:14
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morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:14
ayoungah, you mean an implicit dep18:14
morganfainbergayoung, yeah, but even if it was an explicit dep, it wouldn't be horrible (though i think the code doesn't support it)18:15
ayoungfor now, I would say that an IdP needs to have some sort of domain id.  Then we can treat it like a domain disable event18:15
ayoungplus won't everything break if there is no domain_id?18:15
dolphmayoung: that's a viable solution, but not really for icehouse18:15
dolphmayoung: there's no domain_id now18:15
ayoungdolphm, doesn't any user in Federation have to alreayd live in the Identity backend?18:16
dolphmayoung: no18:16
ayoungjust groups?18:16
marekdayoung: nooo?18:16
dolphmayoung: they "live" in the remote IdP are ephemeral in keystone18:16
marekdayoung: just groups18:16
dolphmayoung: authorization lives in keystone18:16
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ayoungmake IdP ID == domain_id then18:16
dolphmayoung: that's the conversation we can have at the summit18:16
ayoungput it in the tokens and get a disable domain event18:16
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dolphmis anyone completely opposed to waiting until juno to address this?18:17
morganfainbergdolphm, i'm actually more for addressing this in juno18:18
dolphmmorganfainberg: i am too18:18
bknudsonit's scary leaving this bug... there's no workaround?18:18
morganfainbergdolphm, vs squeezing it in under the wire (unless we have a very very good reason not to)18:18
morganfainbergbknudson, so is it just that we delete an idp and tokens aren't revoked?18:18
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dolphmbknudson: not a simple one18:19
bknudsonmorganfainberg: yes, you delete or disable an idp and tokens aren't revoked18:19
morganfainbergbecause, as aweful as it is we could do the same thing we do for oauth18:19
marekdmorganfainberg: and what's happening there?18:19
morganfainbergoh nvm we can't18:19
morganfainbergwe'd need a new index.18:19
gyeebknudson, disable a group would delete the tokens right?18:19
morganfainbergwe're not tracking by user.18:19
morganfainberggyee, which groups18:19
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bknudsongyee: right, disable a group or a user... or a domain18:19
gyeeassuming you keep track of Ide=group mappings18:20
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marekdgyee: we dont18:20
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gyeeIdP user to group mapping I mean18:20
bknudsonI guess we'd know what groups are referenced by the mapping18:20
dolphmgyee: we don't really track that, per se18:20
dolphmbknudson: the mapping is mutable18:21
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morganfainbergcan we add the IDP id to the token?18:21
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dolphmmorganfainberg: it's already there18:21
bknudsonchanging the mapping should probably invalidate tokens, too18:21
morganfainbergcan we make auth_token ask keystone if an IDP is valid on validating the idp?18:21
dolphmmorganfainberg: and i suspect what the revocation event should be based on18:21
marekdmorganfainberg: and later go through all the tokens and match them?18:21
dolphmmorganfainberg: token -> user -> OS-FEDERATION -> identity_provider -> id18:21
morganfainbergor provide a list of active IDP IDs to auth_token?18:21
morganfainberginternal to keystone this is easy18:21
morganfainbergis IDP valid, nope? reject18:22
ayoungloss of IdP is catastrophic, and revoke all tokens18:22
dolphmayoung: lol that's not a bad approach18:22
morganfainbergayoung, dolphm, for I i think we could expose a list of valid IDP ids18:22
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dolphmmorganfainberg: GET /v3/OS-FEDERATION/identity_providers18:22
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morganfainbergdolphm, yeah18:23
morganfainbergdolphm, make auth_token middleware track that18:23
morganfainbergdolphm, just check if token_id is in that list.18:23
morganfainbergit's a low risk / easy solution18:23
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morganfainbergand internal to keystone we can check IDP is valid for validation calls18:23
morganfainbergif we don't already18:23
ayoungdolphm, it is the sane approach for Icehouse18:23
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dolphmmorganfainberg: ayoung: ++18:24
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dolphmi'll add keystoneclient to that bug then18:24
gyeemorganfainberg, probably a separate middleware sitting behind auth_token18:24
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morganfainberggyee, i don't think we want to do that.18:24
ayoungmorganfainberg, I'm unwilling to do that18:24
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morganfainberggyee, getting everyone to load another middleware is bad18:24
ayoungI thik that a list of valid IdPs as part of the check is getting into the revoke events space18:24
morganfainbergthis needs to be in auth_token18:24
ayoungI'd rather just add it to revoke events18:24
dolphmrevised https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-keystoneclient/+bug/129115718:25
morganfainbergayoung, but we don't have full revocation events now.18:25
morganfainbergayoung, and we need a solution for I18:25
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gyeemorganfainberg, middleware is alreay overloaded, but I like ayoung's idea of having it in revoke events18:25
morganfainberglong term i want it in revocation events18:25
ayoungmorganfainberg, we have revocation events, and I have a fledgling patch for the client side18:26
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morganfainbergayoung, but we've stated revocation events are expirimental18:26
gyeeauth_token middleware refactoring is overdue :)18:26
dolphmgyee: it's happening, slowly18:26
ayoungmorganfainberg, so is Federation in my book18:26
dolphmso we need to move on, we have more bugs to discuss :)18:27
dolphmBug 1255321: v3 token requests result in 500 error when run in apache18:27
morganfainbergayoung, then we need to mark it in the docs18:27
dolphmBug 1291423: revocation events sync slows responses to all authenticated calls18:27
dolphmBug 1291047: Keystone returns traceback for db backend18:27
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dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/125532118:27
dstanekgyee: yes, i was looking at it yesterday and was very tempted to start hacking it up18:27
dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/129142318:27
dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/129104718:27
morganfainbergayoung, will discuss more in -dev after meeting18:27
dolphmayoung: all three of these are assigned to you -- care to share the burden with anyone else?18:27
ayoungdolphm, looking18:27
ayoungdolphm, I'd be happy to hand them off18:28
ayoungI'll keep https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/129142318:28
dolphmanyone want to volunteer to pick any of these up?18:28
ayoungwhich is revocation events, and I think we already have a better approach18:28
gyeethe 500 error one is interesting, compressed token should help18:28
ayounggyee, yeah...but I don't think  I can slip compressed tokens into the icehouse release18:29
dolphm"Keystone returns traceback for db backend" is a regression that should be an easy fix if we can figure out where things went wrong18:29
jamielennoxdolphm: yea, that shouldn't happen with up to date requirements, it was initially filed on bugzilla and i put the same comment there but no response yet18:30
dolphmayoung: so should https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1255321 be untargeted from rc1?18:30
ayoungdolphm, well...maybe18:30
dolphmjamielennox: have you tried to reproduce?18:30
ayoungdolphm, I have a python33 issue, but assuming I solve that18:30
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ayoungthe path needs to be clear to enabling compressed tokens on the server18:30
ayoungI think that means a new config value18:30
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gyeeayoung, recommend endpoint filtering to reduce service catalog size, or nocatalog on token request18:31
ayoungor,  maybe a new token provider18:31
ayounggyee, suspect that none of that is going to make adifference18:31
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jamielennoxdolphm: you'd have to get eventlet context switching at just the right time, i guess you could force that - but no18:31
gyeeits the service catalog that super sized the PKI token18:31
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ayoungdolphm, so, assuming I get compressed tokens working, I would probably make the server side be an alternative token provider, that looks just like the PKi provider, but that generates compressed tokens instead18:32
bknudsonusers are going to need the service catalog18:32
ayoungand then you would configure that in the config file as the token provider18:32
ayoungif that is acceptable, (and I figure out the python33 issue) we can have an RC1 fix18:32
dolphmgyee: nocatalog isn't a viable option for everyone18:32
gyeebknudson, not the whole shebang, just the services user is interested in18:32
jamielennoxayoung: i'm still not sure why this would need to be a provider rather than just a wrap/unwrap middleware option18:32
dolphmjamielennox: ++18:32
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ayoungjamielennox, OK...so we don't assume that the entire openstack deployment upgrades at once18:33
gyeeis there really a use case where the whole thing is needed?18:33
ayoungif it doesn't we need to keep from breaking existing clients18:33
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gyeebeside horizon, where they can get the catalog on a separate API18:33
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ayounggyee, doesn't matter18:33
morganfainbergcan we make it a ?compressed=true18:34
ayoungso much code is written around the service catalog, we can't break that18:34
ayoungmorganfainberg, no18:34
jamielennoxayoung: sure that just means you ahve to roll out the client updates before you can switch over the server - but that would be the same as a new provider18:34
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: no, i don't think it should be optional at request time18:34
morganfainbergayoung, or we make it part of the accepts header18:34
ayoungmorganfainberg, it needs to be a different token format, and then auth token neeeds to handle both18:34
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morganfainbergayoung, hm.18:34
dolphmmorganfainberg: i don't think it should be optional either -- it should happen transparently for end users18:34
morganfainbergdolphm, oh right derp. sorry was thinking18:35
morganfainbergdolphm, auth_token making the request18:35
ayoungdolphm, defaults to uncompressed for Icehouse, compressed for juno18:35
ayoungMII still needs to work18:35
ayoungrem,ember, there is Java code out there that talks to openstack....we can't brak this18:35
dolphmalright, so untargeted Bug 1255321 "v3 token requests result in 500 error when run in apache" from RC118:36
ayoungbut we can make the mechanism possible, and publish it18:36
ayoungdolphm, wrong call18:36
ayoungthe right call is to make it optional18:36
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ayoungjust don't try to drop all the baggage at the same time18:36
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dolphmayoung: you're advocating for compressed tokens to be a service-side feature, in which case it's too late for icehouse18:37
dolphm... correct me if i'm wrong18:37
ayoungFair enough18:37
jamielennoxayoung: i don't disagree with the client needing updating and MII etc. My point is that as the logic behind PKI and compressed PKI tokens is exactly the same other than that last compress step it doesn't need to be a new 'provider'18:37
ayoungjamielennox, the problem is that the old clients can't deal with the new format18:38
ayoungits not just "the final step"18:38
dolphmjamielennox: that's my intuition as well, but i haven't tried to make it happen to judge the actual required complexity :)18:38
jamielennoxayoung: sure18:38
bknudsonayoung: auth_token middleware? why do clients care in general?18:38
dolphmbknudson: because auth_token has to unpack tokens to validate them offline18:38
dolphmbknudson: clients == auth_token here18:38
ayoungand compression is part of the unpacking18:39
jamielennoxdolphm: me neither, but i consider the provider to be the controller and compressed or not should be a view of it18:39
bknudsonright, just making sure it wasn't all clients that care.18:39
ayoungbknudson, it will be...in Juno18:39
dolphmbknudson: exactly, actual end users won't/shouldn't care18:39
ayoungdolphm, OK, so I'll continue on with the compressed token work, but if anyone wants to use it, they will need to run an unsupported, out of tree token provider18:40
dolphmalright then, so the other bug up for grabs was https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/129104718:40
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ayoungwe'll get the token provider into Juno 1, and backport if there is sufficient demand18:40
dolphmjamielennox: do you think this should be incomplete?18:40
morganfainbergthis is a tough one to duplicate imo18:40
jamielennoxdolphm: i'm wondering from before if I could reproduce with some well place sleeps and a decent load18:41
morganfainbergjamielennox, adding in sleep(0)'s?18:41
dolphmit's not using SecurityError somehow, is it? and then the behavior is dependent on debug=true?18:41
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: right - something that made eventlet switch to a new thread18:41
morganfainbergjamielennox, it does force context switches18:41
jamielennoxmorganfainberg: yea, i *think* you can do it with a call to eventlet as well but i dont know how18:42
dstanekhow does the context switch cause this error?18:42
jamielennoxi've tried to ignore eventlet as much as possible18:42
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* dolphm is confused between this bug and another one with a really similar title...18:42
morganfainbergdstanek, when eventlet switches it's execution point, thread swap, it looks like it's clearing the exc. stack?18:42
jamielennoxdstanek: see linked eventlet bug: https://bitbucket.org/eventlet/eventlet/issue/118/exceptions-are-cleared-during18:42
morganfainbergit's a fairly standard coroutine-like-code hell problem18:43
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morganfainbergthankfully eventlet has been mostly decent (lately) about not introducing/causing these18:43
jamielennoxbut it shouldn't happen with new greenlet and global-requirements.txt has sufficient greenlet in it18:43
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jamielennox(from my understanding)18:44
morganfainbergdolphm, how is this a security issue?18:44
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dolphmmorganfainberg: leaking internal details unnecessarily18:44
morganfainbergdolphm, ah ok phew, i thought i was missing something else18:44
morganfainbergdolphm, i was concerned you were seeing a rollback issue causing a gap18:45
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dolphm(this is marked as a private security issue) but i marked it as a dupe of the public bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/129311318:45
dolphmit does actually vary a bit from https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/129104718:45
bknudsonseems like keystone should trap all exceptions and return a generic 500 error18:46
morganfainbergbknudson, that was what i was thinking would solve this18:46
bknudsonunless debug=True... but even then doesn't seem necessary if it's in the log18:46
morganfainbergthis just seems like we should tighten up what we pass back, make the returns much simpler18:47
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dolphmbknudson: so basically UnexpectedError should extend SecurityError ?18:47
morganfainbergerm errors to the client18:47
bknudsondolphm: that sounds safer to me.18:47
ayoungdolphm, ++18:47
morganfainbergdolphm, ++18:48
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morganfainbergdolphm, I'll take this one if you need.18:48
dolphmmorganfainberg: sure18:48
morganfainbergdolphm, and chase down any external deps18:48
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morganfainberghopefully it'll be minimal18:48
dolphmmorganfainberg: it looks like the only gotcha is that UnexpectedError currently expects %(exception)s in the string formatter18:49
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morganfainbergdolphm, yeah18:49
morganfainbergdolphm, shouldn't be too bad (might require test massaging)18:49
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morganfainbergi'll link it against both the security bug and the regression one18:50
morganfainbergoh wait no the security one is marked dup18:50
morganfainberghaha don't need to.18:50
dolphmhenrynash: o/18:50
dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/128721918:51
dolphmBug 1287219: scope of domain admin too broad in v3 policy sample18:51
henrynashso fix merged18:51
ayoungdolphm, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/81235/  should go in.  YorikSar needsd to open a bug to describe the problem he is fixing, but I've been testing the code.  It solves some issues that I was seeing, but had not yet been able to reproduce with a server side test18:51
dolphmhenrynash: you marked this as fixed, but there's no link to a fix as far as i can see?18:51
henrynashhmm…ok let me fix thaat :-)18:51
morganfainbergdolphm, the code merged, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79897/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80769/18:52
dolphmayoung: open a bug and track it against RC118:52
ayoungdolphm, ++18:52
dolphmYorikSar: ^18:52
morganfainbergsorry #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80769/18:52
morganfainberg#link  https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79897/18:52
YorikSardolphm, ayoung: ok18:52
dolphmhenrynash: morganfainberg: thanks18:53
dolphmhenrynash: must have been a fluke with the bot18:53
bknudsoncan't trust bots18:53
dolphmhenrynash: i linked the to the review in the bug18:53
henrynashdolphm: thx18:53
dolphmand the last one...18:53
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dolphm#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/127386718:54
henrynashI do have one question on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80769/, see last item of the agenda (cover it then)18:54
dolphmKeystone API v3 lists disabled endpoints and services in catalog18:54
bknudsondolphm: it's partially fixed... disabled endpoints18:54
dolphmhenrynash: ack18:54
bknudsonbut not disabled services18:54
dolphmbknudson: and i think endpoints are the more important piece, but do you think you'll have time to do the same for services?18:54
dolphm(this week)18:54
bknudsonI can't promise I'd get services done this week18:55
bknudsonit's crazy around here.18:55
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dolphmbknudson: this is another one that i'm comfortable shipping with as a known issue, given that we have a solid workaround (disable all the endpoints for your "disabled" services prior to upgrading)18:55
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bknudsonclose the bug and open a new one?18:55
bknudsona new one for services?18:55
morganfainbergthat sounds very reasonable18:56
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gyeeand disable a region?18:56
dolphmgyee: /v3/regions has no impact on the catalog, yet18:56
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dstanekbknudson: so endpoints is complete and we just have to implement services for this one?18:57
dolphmgyee: i think that expectation will come, but not yet18:57
dolphmdstanek: yes18:57
ayounggyee, separate bug for that too, i'd wager18:57
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dolphmbknudson: it's going to be a parallel fix -- probably sharing a lot of code18:57
bknudsondstanek: yes, disabled endpoints are not in the catalog anymore... but disabling a service has no effect18:57
dolphmdstanek: ^18:57
bknudsonfor services, I don't think there's a tempest test that doesn't work like there was for endpoints18:57
dstanekif you create a new bug you can assign it to me and can work on it18:58
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dolphmbknudson: good to know18:58
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dolphmdstanek: will do, thanks!18:58
dolphm#topic Should domain_id be immutable by default?18:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Should domain_id be immutable by default? (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:58
henrynashso https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80769/ provides option to made domain_id immutable...18:58
henrynashquestion is, should we really make it immutable by default18:58
henrynashwould change existing fucntionaliy18:58
dolphmhenrynash: are you asking about icehouse or juno?18:58
morganfainbergdolphm, icehouse18:58
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dstanekbknudson: is tempest ensuring that disabled endpoints don't appear?18:58
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morganfainbergi'm concerned about a security implication (talked w/ henrynash) due to the ability that you could move a user you control into a domain you don't control18:59
bknudsondstanek: no, it was trying to set endpoint disabled to an invalid boolean value (by our XML translator)18:59
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morganfainbergand i'm not 100% sure we are guarding against admin in domain A with user moved to domain B clearly18:59
bknudsondstanek: as far as I know there are no tempest tests for getting a catalog with disabled endpoints... otherwise we wouldn't have the bug18:59
jamielennoxhenrynash: what's the logic behind it being mutable in the first place?18:59
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dolphmmorganfainberg: ack; i'm not opposed to making it immutable in icehouse for that reason (it's a security improvement), and i'm very much in favor of making it immutable *by* juno19:00
morganfainbergjamielennox, it shouldn't be. we just didn't make it immutible19:00
jamielennoxit wouldn't seem to work with the way our SQL/LDAP providers work19:00
henrynashjamielennox: lsoat in the midst of time19:00
dolphmjamielennox: there's not any ( morganfainberg++ )19:00
morganfainbergdolphm, in juno for sure immutible19:00
morganfainbergi'd prefer to invert the option for I19:00
dolphmhenrynash: put the patch up to change the default and we'll vote on it :)19:00
morganfainbergif someone _needs_ that, make a less secure deployment19:00
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dolphmwe're over time19:01
henrynashin reality, moving entities between domains will break most production style non-trivial deployments19:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 19:01:05 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-18-18.01.html19:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-18-18.01.txt19:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-03-18-18.01.log.html19:01
henrynashdolphm: ++19:01
jeblairhello infra folks?19:01
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 19:02:11 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting19:02
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jeblairagenda ^19:02
jeblair#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-11-19.01.html19:02
jeblairlast meeting ^19:02
jeblair#topic  Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
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jeblairoh that was easy19:03
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jeblair#topic  Upgrade gerrit (zaro)19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Upgrade gerrit (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
jeblairzaro: do you have the etherpad handy for this?19:04
zarochanges waiting to be reviewed.19:04
zaroohh.  let me find it.19:04
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jeblairzaro: i'd like to check in on what changes we need to review now, and which ones we should be planning on merging when we actually do the upgrade19:04
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jeblair#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gerrit-2.8-upgrade19:05
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zarohere is the list19:05
zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/7910719:06
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zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70818/19:06
zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/60893/19:06
zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/60080/19:06
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zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/69768/19:06
zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70014/19:07
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zaro#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/70864/19:07
jeblairzaro: this week, can you update the etherpad and put those in 3 sections?19:07
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jeblairzaro: the changes we need to merge now, during the upgrade, and after the upgrade?19:07
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zarosure. but that is all the remaining.19:08
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jeblairzaro: because it seems like some of those may not be safe to merge right now, right?19:08
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zaromaybe 2 are not, but rest can.19:08
zaroi'll put it on etherpad and send out to irc.19:09
jeblairzaro: coool thanks.19:09
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zaroohh question.19:09
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zaroshould we upgrade during openstack 'off' week?19:10
clarkbI won't be around that week19:10
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jeblair#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule19:10
zaroohh yeah.  i think clarkb was actually suggesting week before if we can gett all changes approved.19:10
clarkbI was thinking week before might be slightly better as only fungi will be out that week iirc19:10
anteayathe off week is designed for infra to be able to take a week off19:11
clarkbanteaya: exactly :)19:11
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anteayaat least that was the intend I heard19:11
jeblairclarkb: the week of 24?19:11
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clarkbjeblair: ya19:11
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* fungi will be missing in action for the two weeks prior to the off week, and then will be around for the off week, bizarrely19:11
clarkbI get on a plane on the 26th (don't let me stop anyone from doing it during the off week fi you want to do it then)19:11
jeblairanteaya: i don't think that was the intent -- i think the intent was that everyone should take a week off.  it's more about release schedule timing than giving infra a break.19:11
jeblairfungi: i will be around during the off week19:12
clarkbjeblair: anteaya right it was an everyone off week including infra19:12
anteayaoh I thought ttx thought infra needed to be able to take a break19:12
anteayaand that a week needed to be scheduled since infra, release management and qa seem to work when everyone else is off19:12
fungii think ttx just needed to be able to go skiing ;)19:12
jeblairanteaya: no, it's because the time between summits was too short for another milestone and too long for one less19:13
anteayaoh okay19:13
jeblairanteaya: and the time between the release and the summit is unstructured19:13
jeblairanteaya: so having that time be too long means people are working on things that may not have been discussed or approved19:13
* zaro is not off @ off week.19:13
jeblairso we want to minimize it19:13
jeblairzaro: let's see if a few more people will be around; if so, i like the idea of doing it during the off week19:14
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pleia2I'm around too19:14
clarkbhuh I figured everyone would be taking advantage of the off week19:15
fungii'm totally up for that19:15
fungipeople come back from break to a new gerrit ;)19:15
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pleia2clarkb: I still have some of my humanity, I don't plan my *whole* life around the openstack release cycle :)19:15
mordredI'm actually awake still19:15
jeblairmordred: have plans for the off week?  https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Icehouse_Release_Schedule19:16
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jeblairmordred: we're thinking of doing the gerrit upgrade then19:16
fungipleia2: we'll fix that soon, i promise19:16
clarkbpleia2: it actually worked out great for me so win for me I guess19:16
pleia2fungi: haha19:16
mordredjeblair: works for me19:16
pleia2I'm only gone for the weekend (conference)19:16
jeblairclarkb, fungi: i'm going to be tooling around NC the week between the off week and summit (and then road tripping to the summit)19:17
jeblairclarkb: so that's great that you'll be around to fix any problems that crop up then! ;)19:17
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anteayaI'm around that week19:17
fungijeblair: i'm around that week too, so should be fine19:17
clarkbjeblair: ha19:17
fungijeblair: we'll be running a whole new fork of gerrit when you get back ;)19:18
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jeblairfungi: and after my next vacation, vinz? :)19:18
clarkbno no first pygit needs to be fixed :)19:19
jeblairok, so let's tentatively say we'll upgrade during the off week....19:19
jeblairzaro: do you want to send a note to the ml suggesting that and see if anyone screams?19:19
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zarowill do.19:20
jeblairif no one does, we can start doing more formal announcements closer to then19:20
zaroohh is that openstack-infra ml or opestack ml?19:20
clarkbis probably the best place to get a tempurature19:20
jeblair#topic  determining atc for the purposes of ptl and tc elections (anteaya)19:21
*** openstack changes topic to "determining atc for the purposes of ptl and tc elections (anteaya) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:21
mordredlook. it's an anteaya19:22
jeblairanteaya: welcome back!19:22
fungianteaya: we run a script to generate that currently, from the programs list in the gobernance repo19:22
jeblairin the agenda, anteaya says " does using projects.yaml from the governance repo get us an accurate list? "19:22
anteayaso the governance repo has a handy projects.yaml: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/programs.yaml19:22
jeblair#link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/reference/programs.yaml19:22
anteayajeblair: thanks19:22
fungianteaya: that is the list we use. are you saying you believe it to be inaccurate?19:22
anteayaso what would happen if that was used as a reference for atc list generation for voters19:23
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anteayafungi: no, just wanting to ensure I am using it the correct way19:23
anteayafor instance Barbican is on that list19:23
anteayabut to my knowledge is not an integrated project19:23
fungiwhen did barbican join a tc-approved program?19:23
anteayathat was my question19:23
clarkbgit log?19:23
mordredit's incubated19:23
mordredincubated counts for atc19:24
anteayawhen did it get incubated?19:24
fungithat is the list official openstack programs use for determining electorate, and the foundation uses to determine who's an active technical contributor for an official project19:24
anteayaI must have missed that19:24
fungiand since it's in code review, anyone who spots an error can propose a fix and let the tc vote to approve the update19:24
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77647/19:24
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anteayagreat, so I will use it for electorate generation and evaluation19:24
anteayaMarch 1019:25
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anteayajeblair: thanks19:25
anteayaokay, my question is answered, thank you19:25
jeblairso, looks like it's time to start moving barbican to openstack/19:25
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fungisounds like it. maybe climate can settle on a new name asap and we can rename them all at the same shot?19:26
clarkbwait more renaming?19:26
jeblairfungi: i'll add both to the agenda19:26
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clarkbshould we add a review thing to new project addtions that includes 'googled project name and function didn't see any relevant hits"19:26
zarodo all incubated projects live in stackforge?19:27
jeblairzaro: no, they live in openstack/19:27
jeblairzaro: much easier to move them when the move into incubation than when they graduate19:27
jeblairalso, they become official projects at that point, so it makes sense19:28
pleia2pre-incubation they typically are in stackforge19:28
ttx(late remark: the idea behind the off week is that 3 weeks is way too much time between release and summit, so we might as well try to encourage a vacation week in there)19:28
jeblairpleia2: ++ and actually the tc has made that a requirement now19:28
pleia2jeblair: ah, nice19:28
zaroso what's the logical seperation between incubated and official? is does none exist?19:28
jeblairttx: we interpreted "vacation" as "upgrade gerrit"  :)19:28
clarkbexcept for me19:28
fungiright, at least when they're still only incubated, there aren't usually cross-dependencies requiring coordinated changes to how we're testing any official projects during the rename19:28
anteayafungi: the script that runs on the governance/projects.yaml it uses the preferred email from gerrit, yes?19:28
* clarkb is going to vacation in hawaii that week19:28
pleia2zaro: repo organization-wise, none really19:29
anteayayay clarkb19:29
ttxjeblair: whatever you like to do as vacation !19:29
jeblairzaro: incubated is a subset of official (integrated is also a subset of official)19:29
fungianteaya: yes, we run a database query locally on the gerrit server's backend and then feed that list of addresses and activity into the script19:29
* ttx will be in Barcelona19:29
jeblairzaro: incubated and integrated are disjoint subsets of official19:29
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anteayafungi: thought so, just wanted to confirm since I will be instructed electorate to confirm the gerrit prefered address in election prep19:30
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jeblair#topic  Open discussion19:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:31
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jeblairmordred: have you collapsed yet, or do you want to mention your work on manage-projects?19:31
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clarkbwait I have a thing19:32
SergeyLukjanovfwiw, we hope to finish renaming of savanna to sahara this week, /me will have a bunch of clenups in random repos19:32
clarkbhttps://review.openstack.org/#/c/51425/ should make our use of pip in puppet much much better19:32
clarkb#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/51425/19:32
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clarkbbut it keeps running into rebase hell19:32
clarkbI think the only way that gets merged is if we stop approving other puppet changes. Basically soft freeze before getting that in19:33
clarkbbtu I also think getting puppetboard working first would help a lot19:33
clarkbso maybe we should bring this back up when we have puppetboard?19:33
pleia2sounds good, I'm going through pip hell in fedora so maybe this will fix that19:33
anteayaclarkb: so you are asking for a soft freeze after puppetboard is up, to get the pip patch in?19:33
pleia2good == getting it in now19:33
fungiclarkb: yes, after puppetboard is running19:33
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clarkbanteaya: yes19:33
jeblairclarkb: yeah, let's do puppetboard first19:33
anteayasoft freeze on puppet changes19:33
pleia2aw :)19:33
clarkbok sounds good19:34
jeblairso, puppetboard!  is that ready to go?19:34
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nibalizeruh the review is stll alive19:34
pleia2I saw a review the other day19:34
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77928/19:34
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nibalizerjeblair: last thing i saw was you mentioning that it doesn't pip -U19:34
nibalizerbut then you +1'd so im not sure if thats a blocker or not19:34
SergeyLukjanovfolks, I'm planning to update my outdated CR that extracts some jobs to pypi-release template (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76322/2/modules/openstack_project/files/zuul/layout.yaml) what do you think about it?19:35
jeblairnibalizer: it's not, because keeping a system up to date with pip is nearly impossible anyway...19:35
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jeblairnibalizer: pip -U would be nice, but we've decided that running from packages is the best way to go19:36
fungiSergeyLukjanov: i'm personally very much in favor of layout.yaml condensing with more templates19:36
jeblairnibalizer: so anyway, i think the change is ok as is; then we should probably look into seeing if we can get pip -U in there, and eventually move to packages (farther in the future)19:36
SergeyLukjanovfungi, I hope that someday we could have template "integrated-project"19:37
jeblairSergeyLukjanov: ++19:37
nibalizerjeblair: okay, so if someone with root wants to try some dry runs on puppetdb i think that intel will inform if that change can land right now19:37
SergeyLukjanovfungi, jeblair, ok, thx, will do it today/tomorrow19:37
nibalizerjeblair: i could add a weekly exec that activates the virtualenv and pip -U's19:37
mordredjeblair: mostly collapsed - biggest thing to mention is the change that tries puppet via ssh19:37
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fungijeblair: to your question yesterday about whether i'd tested the puppetboard change, now i remember i commented on ps4 saying i would test it but then mordred piped up in channel and said he was testing puppet changes anyway and would try it out19:37
clarkbmordred: about that, why not salt? I think I missed that19:38
nibalizeri'm also interested in feedback on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/71739/ because moving that forward should help a number of things19:38
jeblairmy changes to check and manage irc perms are about to merge, i think.  once they do, we should make sure that any new channels defined in any config files also exist in the file that the access bot uses19:38
jeblairthat's going to be a manual review criteria check for a while, until we can automate that19:38
mordredclarkb: because the ssh change is pretty easy to grok and is not very complex and gets us to sequencing quickly19:38
clarkbjeblair: noted19:38
clarkbmordred: so does salt if you just do salt cmd 'review*' do thing19:39
clarkbwasn't sure if ssh solved a particular problem that salt didn't19:39
jeblaireither way, we're talking about opening root access to all hosts; we probably want to restrict the commands that can be run19:40
mordredclarkb: two things - one is expediency - which is that I could write that patch without going and reading a bunch of salt documentation19:40
mordredjeblair: I was thinking about restricting ip perhaps? root on the puppetmaster automatically gets you root on the other boxes anyway because of puppet, no?19:41
nibalizermordred: thats correct19:41
jeblairmordred: er, you want to only be able to ssh to hosts from the puppetmaster?19:42
mordredas root19:42
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jeblairmordred: ssh-based ip restriction?19:42
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jeblairmordred: i'm not sure that gets us much; i don't think it's stronger than an rsa key...19:44
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mordredprobably not, now you mention19:44
jeblairmordred: i was getting at the fact that it would be nice if puppetmaster could do nothing other than run puppet on the other nodes19:44
fungii'm looking to see whether authorized_keys can associate source ip address with a specific public key19:45
fungivague recollection that was a feature19:45
jeblairmordred: sure, it can have puppet do anything19:45
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lifelessttx: I may be awol today, C is home sick from kindy19:45
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jeblairmordred: but it's at least a bit more auditable, if we get to that point in the future19:46
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mordredjeblair: nod. I'll think on that and come back with ideas19:46
ttxlifeless: OK19:47
fungifrom="pattern-list" Specifies that in addition to public key authentication, either the canonical name of the remote host or its IP address must be present in the comma-separated list of patterns.19:47
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jeblairmordred: should be able to add a restricted command to the authorized_keys file19:47
fungiso if we want to lock it down by a combination of ssh public key and source ip address that way, it's possible to do in the authorized_keys list19:47
jeblairfungi: and i guess if it's that easy, we could add that too19:47
jeblairprobably wouldn't hurt19:47
fungijeblair: and we can limit commands there too, yes19:47
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fungiman 8 sshd /AUTHORIZED_KEYS FILE FORMAT19:48
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fungithere's a lot of space juice in there19:48
nibalizerfungi: yes you can do that19:48
nibalizerof course with ip/dns poisioning, it might not mean much19:48
jeblairmordred: so this was pretty much to be our first step toward using salt to do complex orchestration across our hosts19:49
jeblairmordred: if you're ditching that, should we just remove salt everywhere?19:49
funginibalizer: right, more useful if we wanted to restrict a certain key to only be usable from a particular address, but i agree it doesn't buy much over just only installing the private key where you need it19:50
anteayapart of my trip to thailand was to reset to focus on salt for Juno, from focusing on neutron for icehouse19:50
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anteayaso I have work to do to get some code up, but that was the direction I wanted to take for juno19:50
anteayaunless I shouldn't19:50
* anteaya considers heading back to thailand19:51
jeblairanteaya: yeah, i'm a little sad because i think there's a lot we could do with salt.  but mordred volunteered for this implementation; i'm not sure what else we would use it for if we don't even want to use it for this...19:51
mordredhrm. not sure. I think we could follow this with a patch that replaces the ssh commands with salt commands if we wanted19:51
fungione of the alternative fixes for the manage-projects race was to parse the replication config and loop retrying to clone each empty project from all the replication targets until they all exist before firing the replication command19:52
mordredwhich might be easier to grok as a stepping stone - getting actually started with salt actually doing anything has seemed to be a bit of a roadblock19:52
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anteayait is just that I need some prep work before I could offer anything, meaning we would have to limp along with manual manage-projects for a bit longer19:52
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mordredfungi: I'm not a fan of that personally - I do think we need ordered orchestration here and there are several ways to accomplish that19:53
anteayayes, I have been part of that roadblock, I kept getting distracted19:53
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jeblairfungi: i'll not that doesn't require a substatial change to our security posture19:53
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jeblairfungi: but it would have to check that before doing _anything_ with gerrit, not just the replication command19:54
jeblairfungi: (since manage-projects actions in gerrit themselves could trigger replication actions)19:54
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fungimordred: i agree we need some ordered orchestration overall, but if we need a quick fix to manage-projects while we roll out more robust orchestration, that seems preferable to rolling out scripted orchestration19:54
mordredthe poll seems like a horrible hack19:54
jesusauruscan i get a link to the ssh patch? i'd be happy to help with salt stuff, but it's not clear to me what you guys want19:55
mordredeven worse than the ssh thing19:55
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jeblairs/horrible//: the thing has a dependency, it just checks to see if that dependency is satisfied...19:55
fungimordred: if you think the ssh thing will also be likely to only stick around until we can implement some more robust orchestration, then i'm fine with it19:55
mordredbut it's trying to do it multi-node19:55
mordredsorry - my network is WAY too laggy to particpate well in an actual sensible discussion on this - I feel I'm doing a terrible job19:56
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mordredand coming across curt19:56
zarohere is the etherpad of remaining gerrit upgrade changes:  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/remaining-gerrit-upgrade-changes19:56
mordredbecause of network19:56
fungijust that salt, ansible, et al started out as projects to run a bunch of commands over ssh. they likely contain a lot of learned lessons19:56
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anteayajesusaurus: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80976/19:56
mordredwell, ansible did. salt does zeromq19:57
clarkbzaro: you should use the #link directive with that so it shows up in meeting summaries19:57
fungifair. s/ssh/the network/19:57
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jeblairmordred: don't worry about it; i think you have some feedback, and we can regroup when you're in a better place...19:57
mordredand I agree- but there is also apparently enough of a learning curve that we'v been stymied by this seemingly simple task for over a yaer19:57
jeblairmordred: no one has worked on it until now19:58
mordredI know19:58
clarkbits only become necessary since the git farm went up19:58
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fungimordred: i definitely agree that multi-dependency-oriented orchestration of tasks across separate systems in salt seems to be implemented in a way i've so far been unable to completely understand19:58
jesusauruswhy does the git farm make this necessary?19:58
mordredevery time I think about it I get stymied by learning curve19:58
clarkbjesusaurus: because now we have cross node dependencies19:58
mordredjesusaurus: because we ahve to add replicas before we add projects19:58
clarkbjesusaurus: other than firewall rules which are fairly static we haven't had that much19:58
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jeblairclarkb: and firewall rules work themselves out eventually19:59
mordredjeblair: ++19:59
fungithis particular issue would be moot if gerrit simply created the remote repositories via ssh if they didn't exist, before pushing commits into them19:59
jeblairanyway, time's up; thanks everyone!19:59
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 19:59:52 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-18-19.02.html19:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-18-19.02.txt19:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-03-18-19.02.log.html19:59
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ttxAnyone here for the TC meeting ?20:00
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ttxrussellb, markmc, annegentle, mordred, jgriffith, vishy, jeblair : around ?20:00
annegentlettx: ayup20:00
ttxlifless indicated he may miss it due to sick kid20:00
jeblairttx: o/20:01
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ttxok, that's enough of us20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 20:01:18 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
ttxThanks to markmc for chairing last week20:01
ttxOur agenda for today:20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee20:01
markmcttx, np; nothing compares 2 u20:01
ttxWe'll probably not complete all of this agenda and overflow to next week20:01
ttxmarkmc: now I have music on my mind20:02
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ttxnothiiing compares    to you20:02
* markmc tries to force some tears for the close-up shot20:02
ttxdevananda: around ?20:02
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ttx#topic Ironic graduation review20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Ironic graduation review (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
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ttxThis one should hopefully be quick, as we unofficially covered it in past discussions20:02
ttxWe added a lot of new graduation requirements during this cycle, as well as stronger QA requirements, which is a very good thing20:03
ttxbut it also means potentially longer incubation for projects that were incubated before we spelled those new requirements out20:03
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ttxFor Ironic I think time ran short to complete new graduation requirements wrt. Nova integration in the Icehouse release20:03
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ttxWhich IMHO means Ironic can't be integrated in Juno and will have to wait for K for common release20:04
annegentlettx: sounds sound20:04
ttxanyone thinks different ? (besides Apple)20:04
jeblairis there an etherpad worksheet for ironic, like we've had for the reviews of nova, etc?20:04
devanandaFWIW, we had planned on doing the QA work after graduation // in Juno, based on discussions at the last summit, so as those req's were written down during the cycle, we were not prepared.20:04
ttxrussell_h: Think different.20:04
ttxrussellb: "Think different"20:05
dhellmann#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IronicGraduationDiscussion20:05
russellbi don't think the driver was ready for code review until towards the very end anyway20:05
markmcdhellmann, thanks20:05
devanandadhellmann: I havn't updated that ehterpad recently20:05
russellbeven without the CI requirement, i think it was cutting it close20:05
ttxdevananda: yeah. Frankly, this should not be seen as blame. We raised the bar while you started to jump.20:05
mikalThe CI require was also advertised for a long time20:05
dhellmanndevananda: noted20:05
devanandawithout the CI req and the deprecate-nova-bm req, I think we would be very close20:06
ttxand I think raising the bar was a good thing20:06
devanandawould probably miss the deployer-documentation requirement too, though we have folks working on that now (and had intended to work on it during FF)20:06
annegentledevananda: good on ya20:06
devanandaalso fwiw, I agree with the CI req, though I'd like to talk about it at the summit20:07
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devanandaasymmetric gating for a whole cycle is going to present a lot of pain for Ironic's development team20:07
ttxdevananda: arguably Ironic was made fully functional only recently, and could use a bit more time anyway20:07
markmcttx, devananda, we also talked last week about being more explicit that new projects should deprecate the old before graduating20:07
devanandattx: *nod*20:07
markmc(where the new project is being split out from an existing project)20:07
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ttxOK, if everyone agrees, little point in spending more time on this, long agenda20:08
devanandamarkmc: that means an integrated project must depend on an incubated one, though20:08
devanandamarkmc: topic for another time :)20:08
ttx#agreed ironic should continue in incubation during the Juno cycle20:08
markmc#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-11-20.03.log.html#l-35420:08
ttxkgriffs: around ?20:09
ttx#topic Marconi graduation review20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Marconi graduation review (Meeting topic: tc)"20:09
ttxkgriffs: Do you have an etherpad with your incubation/graduation requirements answers ?20:09
kgriffsI have a wiki page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/Incubation/Graduation20:09
ttxor a wiki20:09
markmcdevananda, no, ironic would be integrated in K, iff nova is willing to deprecate nova-bm in K20:09
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kgriffs#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/Incubation/Graduation20:09
lifelessoh this is good timing for me managing to get a timeslice20:09
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/Incubation/Graduation20:10
russellbdhellmann: have you had a chance to review the pecan ML post?20:10
lifelessat the tripleo sprint we were looking at marconi20:10
dhellmannrussellb: only briefly20:10
russellb#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030326.html20:10
russellbour requirements state you should use oslo libs where appropriate20:10
russellbso we should clarify what we expect here ...20:10
lifelessand were very confused - rather than an API around existing production queues, it seems to implement its own message queue backed by mysql...20:10
kgriffslifeless: that was clarified in the incubation meeting. I didn't realize there was still some confusion on that point.20:11
lifelesswhich raises a large set of scaling and performance questions when comparing it to e.g. kestrel20:11
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dhellmannrussellb: based on an initial skim, and my observations over the course of this cycle, I'm completely unsurprised by the conclusions20:11
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zehicleo/ (sorry I was late)20:12
ttxrussell_h: link to pecan analysis ?20:12
ttxzehicle: o/20:12
russellbttx: #linked above20:12
russellbttx: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030326.html20:12
ttxtaht other russellTAB is going to kill me20:12
dhellmann#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/pecan-evaluation20:13
russellbdhellmann: thoughts on whether we should allow divergence like this?20:13
markmcclainthe write up seemed very slanted and the graphs are meaningless with code20:13
dhellmannrussellb: no other team has objected so strenuously to using the same toolkit as the rest of us, so I do have concerns about why marconi is setting themselves up as different20:13
adrian_ottoa divergence should be considered if there is a good technical reason for it. Expectation for control plane APIs shoudl be different for those of data plane APIs.20:13
kgriffsmarkmcclain: FWIW, I have tried very hard to stay out of the evaluation since I know I am biased. We can provide code very easily20:13
lifelesskgriffs: I wasn't on the TC when that meeting happened20:14
lifelesskgriffs: so sure, a previous committee was happy20:14
ryanpetrelloI believe the code in question is https://github.com/balajiiyer/marconi/commits/Pecan ?20:14
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kgriffslifeless: ah, sure. I am happy to discuss your concerns.20:14
lifelesskgriffs: however I'm  very worried20:14
ttxdhellmann: I guess the question is more, is there anything Falcon does that can't be obtained by improving Pecan ? Like awesome performance20:15
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russellband we discussed this during incubation right?  that it should at least be evaluated20:15
lifelesskgriffs: in particular the concerns about divergent stack being raised right now20:15
russellbthough an evaluation was posted on graduation review day, heh20:15
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russellbhard to have time to really digest and respond to it20:15
lifelessare a side effect of marconio being a queueing implementation rather than an API for queueing implementations20:15
dhellmannttx: some of the performance differences are explained by the fact that pecan relies on webob, which handles cases that falcon's request parser just doesn't handle20:15
sdagueyeh, the fact that it was posted today is kind of a red flag. That really should have been at least a month before.20:15
russellbsdague: yes20:16
kgriffsrussellb: apologies, balaji has been working on it for a while, actually, but he has been swamped.20:16
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russellbso i'm basically -1 because we don't have time to have a proper discussion about this20:16
dhellmannrussellb: yeah, although I was more interested in community effects than arbitrary performance numbers20:16
ttxIs the Pecan vs. Falcon question the only gap, or are there other areas that are borderline ?20:16
mordredttx: see lifeless question above20:16
sdagueregardless of the falcom / pecan issues, my concern is this is the extend of gate testing - http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/tempest/tree/tempest/api/queuing/test_queues.py20:16
sdaguewhich isn't yet voting20:16
kgriffsdhellmann: was the original Pecan eval you did documented somewhere?20:17
russellbsdague: no voting functional testing?20:17
lifelessbecause - as it stands, I would have voted -1 on marconi's incubation20:17
kgriffssdague: that's a good point. We definitely need more tests there.20:17
ttxmordred: sheall we defer this to next week so that (1) lifless has time to raise his remarks on the ML and (2) we get time to discuss the Pecan vs. Falcon report ?20:17
mordredsdague: that is more vexing to me than anything else20:17
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sdaguerussellb: not last time I checked20:17
dhellmannkgriffs:  https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/havana-common-wsgi20:17
mordredttx: what sdague just raised is WAY more worrying20:17
sdagueit was in progress the last couple of weeks20:17
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ttxmordred: indeed20:18
kgriffsdhellmann: thanks!20:18
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jeblairi think the consistency around pecan is very important; as we've grown, we're hearing demands for consistency and standardization in our dependencies and architectures more20:18
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dhellmannttx: the evaluation of the technical question has raised some questions for me about an "us vs. them" attitude I observed early in the release cycle, which makes me concerned that we will have constant fights with this team over using common tools20:18
malinisdague: the tests are an ongoing thing. I raised the coverage question in #openstack-qa & my understanding from the responses was this is adequeate. We have detailed coverage in the functional test suite & will add the same level of coverage in tempest as well20:18
sdaguewe're having lots of projects without solid testing in the gate causing all kinds of issues in making an openstack whole20:18
sdaguemalini: having it in a different test suite doesn't count20:18
dhellmannjeblair: +120:19
kgriffsdhellmann: "common tools" is a blanket statement. Are there other tools specifically that you have seen friction with?20:19
sdaguemalini: I'm sorry that you got the wrong impression there20:19
lifelessmalini: do you have stress tests (e.g. thousands of tenants, millions of queues?)20:19
ttxsdague, dhellmann: so adding a week won't change your opinion on it ?20:19
jeblairi think the pecan/falcon report is a good place to start a discussion about whether openstack should move to falcon, but i think it would have to be _really_ compelling to be an argument that marconi should diverge20:19
dhellmannkgriffs: we do have some teams that have rejected python 3 patches, packaging changes, etc.20:19
dhellmannttx: no20:19
malinilifeless: We have done stress tests using tsung20:19
markmcjeblair, dhellmann, on the web framework consistency, we have to admit the project as a whole has been slow to standardize here20:19
ttxjeblair: +120:19
sdaguettx: no20:19
markmcjeblair, dhellmann, not completely excusing it, but ...20:19
dhellmannmarkmc: the implementation was always meant to be slow, there is no point rebuilding without having a reason to bump the api version20:20
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dhellmannotoh, the investigation and learning has been picking up -- every integrated project has talked to us, iirc20:20
markmcdhellmann, yep, definitely picked up since you started pushing it20:20
lifelesskgriffs: what's your strategy for folk that want @scale marconi? Do they need to reimplement the API (which would be coutner to everything we're trying to achieve...) ? Is there an API vs implementation split in the code?20:21
markmcdhellmann, picked up from near zero, is my point20:21
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dhellmannand so far, every single other team has just said "ok, we'll do that" without argument20:21
markmcdhellmann, yeah, fair20:21
kgriffslifeless: we can chat about scale, but Marconi actually scales and performs quite well already.20:21
ttxSo how about... kgriffs posts a governance patch to switch Marconi to integrated. Lifeless starts a thread on the base concepts. We discuss Falcon vs. Pecan on the ML, and it all ties back into our votes on that proposed patch20:21
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ttxbecause it will require a vote, I think20:22
jeblairttx: seems fair20:22
* dhellmann nods20:22
kgriffslifeless: like I said, I would be happy to discuss in detail20:22
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ttxand to vote we need the governance patch20:22
markmc#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Marconi/Incubation20:22
ttxthen next week we can make the final call on it20:22
markmc(for reference)20:22
lifelesskgriffs: per ttx I will raise my concerns and hesitations on the mailing lit and we can deep dive there.20:22
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lifelesskgriffs: but for instance, how does it compare to kestrel20:23
ttxkgriffs: ping me if you need help drafting the governance patch20:23
kgriffsttx: will do20:23
ttxthat's where final voting will happen20:23
ttxand while it runs, we can have the complementary discussions about Falcon or the whole concept of doing queue on top of mysql20:24
ttx#action kgriffs to post a governance patch to switch Marconi to integrated20:24
ttx#action lifeless to start a thread on the base concepts20:24
ttx#action TC to analyze and comment on Falcon vs. Pecan report20:24
ttx#agreed final decision at meeting next week20:25
ttx#topic Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron20:25
*** openstack changes topic to "Integrated projects and new requirements: Neutron (Meeting topic: tc)"20:25
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/IcehouseProjectReviewNeutron20:25
russellbso, i was supposed to start a thread off of this, and i didn't.  sorry.20:25
ttxI read the log from last week, and I think we need to clarify something20:25
ttxThe review of currently-integrated projects vs. new requirements is *not* about discussing de-integrating some projects20:26
ttxIt's about having a clear gap analysis and an agreed plan and deadlines to cover that gap20:26
ttxNow, *if* that plan and deadlines are not met (or we can't agree on a plan), we'll discuss de-integration, but that's not an immediate topic20:26
markmc#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-11-20.03.log.html#l-31320:26
ttxSo the question we are asking ourselves today is not "would we accept Neutron today"20:26
annegentlettx: good to set20:26
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ttxIt's "what is the gap between the current state and our current expectations, and what is the plan to address it ASAP"20:26
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ttxSo we the TC should produce a clear gap analysis, markmcclain as PTL should answer with a plan to address it, and we the TC should bless that plan and the deadlines in it20:26
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markmcclainso here's the gap analysis that I've been tracking20:27
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markmcclain#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-nova-parity20:27
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ttxI noted down 3 areas20:27
ttx1. nova-net feature parity (including easier setup of basic networking)20:27
ttx2. Migration plan from nova-net20:27
ttx3. Functional tests coverage20:27
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* ttx checks markmcclain etherpad20:27
sdaguemarkmcclain: good list20:28
russellbperformance/reliability parity is another ... largely just part of #1 and #320:28
russellbbut is a specific concern area that must be addressed before folks are comfortable with the deprecation20:28
sdagueI think it should be explicit that #3 definitely depends on #1 and #2 completing20:28
russellbbut yeah, it's a good list20:28
ttxrussellb: yeah, nova-net feature/perf parity20:28
markmcmarkmcclain, awesome list of tempest additions20:28
russellbi agree that the list covers it from my perspective20:29
markmcclainmarkmc: mlavelle really help spearhead that work20:29
ttxmarkmcclain: is performance somewhere in your etherpad ?20:29
markmcclainI'll clarify it #820:29
mordredI'm number 5!20:29
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jeblairmordred: you're a network!20:30
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mordredmarkmcclain: if you call that api verb mordred, I'll vote for nova-network deprecation right now (also, great list)20:31
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markmcclainmordred: haha20:31
lifelessis 5 really a thing nova network has ?20:31
ttxmarkmcclain: so that's the gap analysis. Do you have a plan to tackle it yet ? Something that would show per-dev-milestone progress ?20:31
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lifelessI'd like to see a poionter to the nova network docs that match it, so we can see waht needs to be done to meet it20:31
dhellmannlifeless: good question20:31
ttxI think what we missed in the past is a plan more precise than "we'll fix it by next release"20:31
lifelessbecause really, its two API calls to geet neutron up and active with a new network - one for the network, one for the subnet, done.20:32
russellband is Juno release a reasonable deadline?20:32
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dhellmannmarkmcclain: is this list in order by priority or dependencies or something else?20:32
lifelessand I've seen deployrs fight for weeks getting nova-network configured properly... :)20:32
markmcclainlifeless also the router and rtr interface plugging20:32
ttxlifeless: My original understanding of that requirement is to match the "simplicity" of Nova-net, but I agree it got a lot more specific now20:33
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mordredlifeless: for deployer or for tenant?20:33
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markmcclainttx: yes so the last 4 items I want to have concrete blueprints for in Juno20:33
mordredlifeless: because having gotten a tenant with no working network, I can tell you it was not 2 api calls to get a working network20:33
lifelessmordred: deployers. nvoa-network doesn't have per-tenant self defined networks.20:33
markmcclain#3 we can define good bugs to track20:33
mordredlifeless: right - nova-network just had a network that worked because the option of a non-working one wasn't present20:34
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ttxmarkmcclain: Ideally you would discuss the whole plan with your core team. it needs to be a group commitment, not just you20:34
mordredso I think there is an end-user experience parity thing here20:34
markmcclaindhellmann: that is the general order of priority20:34
lifelessmordred: and neutron can do that too. You may have a deployer that made poor choices, which is a docs issue.20:34
markmcclainmordred: exactly20:34
ttxmarkmcclain: So we can let you refine the deadlines and milestone targets and conclude this next week20:34
lifelessmordred: e.g. 'clouds should provide a default all-tenants network'20:34
annegentlelifeless: interesting, who is accountable for the docs issue on a core project? (she asks hypothetically)20:35
ttxmarkmcclain: unless you already have theit commitment behind the plan you have in mind20:35
markmcclainttx: that works20:35
lifelessannegentle: I dunno :)20:35
mordredannegentle: you!!! ;)20:35
annegentleor the core team20:35
ttx#info neutron integration gap analysis posted at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/neutron-nova-parity20:35
lifelessannegentle: btw I don't mean that the docs team failed here, I mean that the issue may not be one of design or code20:35
annegentlelifeless: yep, agreed, just pointing out it's difficult to fix issues without known owners20:36
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ttx#action markmcclain to come up with precise and per-milestone plan to address gap analysis, get core support behind it and present at next meeting20:36
lifelessannegentle: agreed. I want the issue to be more precise first too20:36
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lifelessannegentle: right now I can't tell what problem mordred had, that he wants fixed, nor whether it is parity with nova-network, or polish on a new feature nova-network doesn't have20:37
mordredlifeless: I'd naively argue that we might e talking about defaults and not docs20:37
ttxmarkmcclain: you could even propose it as a resolution, so that we vote on it and have some official record of that commitment20:37
markmcclainttx: sure I'll post one20:37
lifelessmordred: my suspicion is that a public cloud deployed a cloud with no default network, which IMO is really bad news.20:37
lifelessmordred: and that you got bitten bu this.20:37
mordredlifeless: this is correct20:37
mordredlifeless: my experience as an opensatck user was poor20:37
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ttxOK, let's move on to next topic20:38
lifelessmordred: I don't believe this is a nova-network parity issue, its a deployer that *didn't follow the guidelines*20:38
mordredlifeless: so I expressed that I'd like a way to say "hey man, give me a default working network"20:38
ttxlifeless: you can discuss mordred-network off-meeting :)20:38
lifelessttx: well, its part of the parity list20:38
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lifelessttx: so its on topic20:38
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ttxlifeless: fair enough20:38
mordredlifeless: guidelines are guidelines - they're not a thing that can be counted on20:38
lifelessttx: can you add an action item that that point needs to be precise, and cover the actual gap, not issues with new features20:39
mordredand if we're wanting to say that we want experiences across openstack clouds to be consistent20:39
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lifelessttx: its entirely possible - and easy - for deployres to deploy noeutron so that it behaves just like nova-network for users.20:39
markmclifeless, you could add a comment to that effect in the etherpad20:39
mordredthen there needes to be at least a consistent way for me to get into a working state20:39
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lifelessmordred: I accept your point, but don't see it as a gap. new feature, new proboems. Don't use the new feature (per tenant networks)...20:40
lifelessmarkmc: ading.20:40
mordredwhich is either a default beahvior a depoloyer would ned to actively go out of their way to break - or an api call I can exercise20:40
ttx#action mordred to precise what is behind the mordred-network line in the gap analysis20:40
mordredlifeless: as a user, I cannot choose to not use per-tenant networks20:40
ttxyes, that can devolve into a ML thread to make progress before next week20:40
ttx#topic Draft bylaws change from Defcore20:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Draft bylaws change from Defcore (Meeting topic: tc)"20:40
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-March/000566.html20:40
ttxThere were two things I wanted to discuss from that thread...20:41
ttx(1) The proposed bylaws change20:41
markmcI'm not sure the draft change itself is worth discussing that much20:41
ttxMy understanding (confirmed with Mark's second email) is that their intent is to clarify how the TC can add new projects allowed to call themselves "OpenStack" something20:41
ttxYes, my reading is that this bylaws change just creates a process for us to clarify things, and doesn't reduce or impede on our authority20:41
markmcthe intent is to change the wording of "the TC proposes new projects to Core and the board approves"20:41
ttxArguably it even increases it, since in the current authority split the BoD fully owns the trademark side20:41
zehicleI may be able to help clarify (but I was not in the meeting, so they may have altered course)20:41
markmcto something which doesn't mention "Core"20:41
markmcbut not in any way affecting how we decide what goes in the integrated release20:42
russellbok, that makes sense20:42
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ttxzehicle: I think if anyone has concerns they can voice it on that -tc thread20:42
ttxI think that point is pretty ok20:42
ttx(2) The snark and the angst at our response20:42
ttxLeaving the snarkiness aside, I think I understand their frustration. From their point of view:20:42
* jgriffith ties his hands behind his back20:42
ttxThe BoD needs a technical information ("designated sections") to go forward with designing trademark rules20:42
ttxThe PTLs are definitely their main points of contact for that information20:42
ttxThe TC is looped in as a convenient mechanism to gather that technical information20:43
ttxThen the TC answers that the whole idea doesn't seem to be the best way to achieve our common goals, and we should focus our efforts on something else20:43
ttxSo obviously they don't like our answer.20:43
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ttxNow, IMHO we can't prevent them from going forward with the process they defined, since that's fully under the BoD responsibility20:43
markmcagree, but it also appears we went off the deep-end interpreting what was required for "designated sections"20:43
markmcdue to lack of clarification, but also us being geeks I guess20:43
ttxI think our official answer (that we don't think it's the best way to achieve our goals) is good enough to make the point that we don't really like it20:43
markmc#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-designated-sections20:43
mordredmarkmc: ++20:43
ttxAt this point I'm fine with them going to each PTL to get the technical answer they need to go forward20:44
jgriffithI'm still very unclear on what the goal is and nobody has answered that IMO20:44
dhellmannmy main concern, which wasn't reflected fully in the response, was what form that "designation" has to take -- because IANAL, and I don't know what is "sufficient" for this purpose20:44
markmcthat makes it very clear it's very, very high level info needed20:44
mikalFrankly, I can't see what Josh hopes to achieve by grandstanding the way he did20:44
ttxBut maybe that's just me -- not caring enough about trademarks and happy to leave that completely to the BoD20:44
mordredmikal: let's ignore the snark for a second - fun as it is20:44
zehicleI'm working on a draft that may help - will vet it w/ mikal20:44
annegentlemordred: that's not even fun snark or clever, it's mean20:44
markmcdhellmann, this is the form they have in mind: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/openstack-designated-sections20:44
ttxmikal: we won't change josh20:44
mikalmordred: you didn't sit through 2.5 hours of it20:45
markwashjgriffith: I agree about being unclear, but I felt like once the "frustration" was being left aside there were actually some decent explanations given in the discussion in the defcore meeting20:45
dhellmannmarkmc: the lack of detail leaves a lot of room for interpretation20:45
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jgriffithmarkwash: yes and no.. but I can seek clarity later20:45
ttxzehicle: did I describe the frustration accurately ?20:45
mordredI agree with markwash - I think the follow up explanations ahve made it clear what was being asked for20:45
sdaguedhellmann: I think that's intentional. Because this is going to be somewhat honor bound20:45
markwashI think what defcore needs to understand is that you guys aren't trying to do their job for them, we just need to better understand their job in order to translate it into actual designations20:45
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russellbit's hard to give a technical answer to a question when you're not sure if you fundamentally agree with what's being asked ...20:46
markwashbecause us being geeks, the specific intent seems to matter a lot20:46
dhellmannif they don't care about line numbers in files, then it seems perfectly reasonable to say "you may provide an entry point with this API" or "you may respond to RPC calls with this API" and be detailed about it20:46
jgriffithrussellb: +120:46
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markmcdhellmann, the current requirement is open to even more interpretation20:46
mikalI think part of the problem is that defcore hasn't really made an effort to explain to the TC what they want / need20:46
russellbit's hard to even take this etherpad seriously with snark in it20:47
markmcdhellmann, we're not really being asked (as a body) for our input on the trademark policy20:47
dhellmannmarkmc: sure, but I thought we were trying to fix that20:47
mikalSo we guessed, and they didn't like our guess20:47
dhellmannmarkmc: so we shouldn't have an opinion?20:47
zehiclemikal, we did offer to have an interactive meeting to discuss this20:47
ttxanyone thinks the TC (and not the PTLs) should be the point of contact to get that information ?20:47
markmcdhellmann, for something like this, I think we as individuals should have opinions20:47
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jeblairttx: i think consistency is warranted here...20:47
russellbjeblair: +120:47
markwashAs a PTL, i consider the TC to both represent and guide me20:47
mikaljeblair: certainly long term consistency, a PTL election shouldn't change radically what a vendor can do20:48
ttxjeblair: listening to Josh, he doesn't seem to be after consistency20:48
markmcdhellmann, e.g. Josh individually has opinions on how we run the project, but we wouldn't be so keen on the BoD having such opinions20:48
jeblairttx: so while i agree that the ptls are an excellent resource for this info, i worry that if we abdicate, we'll get completely different responses20:48
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dhellmannmarkmc: as an engineer, I find it difficult to help guide "requirements gathering" when it seems like it is off course20:48
zehiclejust like you Josh is just one person in the DefCore meeting - we have discussions.  discussoin != result20:48
markmcdhellmann, yeah20:48
annegentleI think we're all a little cagey about the definitions -- originally I see this as a documentation/communication task, a list of each project and what each "cares" about (which may have to be PTL drafted?)20:48
dhellmannto *not* guide20:48
mikaljeblair: I don't think its abdication? I think Josh intends to just route around us.20:48
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ttxmikal: he may be disappointed. The PTLs and the TC are pretty close :)20:49
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mikalzehicle: it was an extremely negative first interaction where no one else in the room reigned it in though.20:49
mikalBut I should stop talking about the snark20:49
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mordredhonestly, I think that discussions of what someone who is not here may or may not be thinking are inappropriate20:49
annegentlemikal: it can certainly feel that way with Josh and as your first interaction you were rightfully shocked20:49
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mikalThe reason I keep mentioning the snark is that I think what the TC needs to do is better understand what defcore wants / needs, and they chose to use the time to bitch instead20:50
jgriffithlet's move along shall we?20:50
jeblairmy primary concern is that we're develping open source software; that software has a name: openstack, and i think the trademark should reflect that.  i'm not sure why there should be any sections designated as replacable20:50
markwashopinions aside, I just really think the lack of clarity about what defcores specific goals are blocks selecting designated sections20:50
ttxack, let's move along20:50
zehiclemikal, thanks.20:50
dhellmannjeblair: +120:50
russellbjeblair: +10020:50
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dhellmannjeblair: otoh, drivers20:50
jgriffithjeblair: I'd kinda agree with that, I added my thoughts to the etherpad20:50
jgriffithThe only thing in Cinder that should be swappable are the drivers20:51
ttxjeblair: I think the fact that we define what the "openstack project" is made of (see proposed bylaws change) ensures that what we develop is still called openstack20:51
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sdagueto play devil's advocate: do all the clouds we think of as openstack implement the nova scheduler as is?20:51
jgriffithThe rest is not designed to be "interchangeable" so to speak20:51
russellbbut even with drivers, once something is out of tree, consistency is (potentially) completely shot20:51
dhellmannmarkwash: right, I think that has been clarified sufficiently that we could give an answer now20:51
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markwashdhellmann: sorry, I must have missed the docs of that20:51
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russellbreplaceable?  sure.  what we (openstack) built?  no.20:51
jgriffithrussellb: that's true but then it's a functionality issue IMO20:51
sdaguezehicle: you had some early test results right?20:51
dhellmannmarkwash: oh, based on the etherpad linked above20:51
dhellmannmarkwash: with examples20:51
russellbjgriffith: which is of course why our response was to prioritize functionality to start with20:52
russellbinstead of rat holing on this20:52
ttxjeblair: but I'm fine with PTLs answering that "all of it" is designated sections. I just don't want the TC to mandate that they do20:52
dhellmannmarkwash: I would still prefer more detail, but this is a reasonable starting place20:52
sdaguethat might be useful to understand the realities of how different different providers are20:52
zehiclesdague, we have some initial scoring of capabliities.20:52
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sdaguezehicle: is that sharable data?20:52
mikalI think I have a problem with PTLs at the end of their elected cycle deciding this20:52
jgriffithmikal: ha!20:52
mikalI think the newly elected PTLs at the least should be consulted20:53
zehicle#link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Av62KoL8f9kAdFo4V1ZLUFM0OHlrRnFpQUkxSHJ5QWc&usp=drive_web#gid=620:53
russellbmikal: i don't think any ptl ever should decide it alone20:53
jgriffithmikal: you think those of us on the way out are suddenly going to sabotage something?20:53
russellband should always consult broader group on controversial issues20:53
dhellmannmikal: I think that was why the TC was being asked20:53
dhellmannwhat russellb said20:53
russellbso i don't htink the cycle should really be a concern20:53
markwashsabotage +1 :-D20:53
ttxzehicle: what's the timing behind this ? Can it wait for newly-elected PTLs ? (April 10)20:53
zehiclemy recommendation is that you agree on some general principles that can be used to drive selecton20:53
mikalWhat I worry about is long term trajectory20:53
jeblairttx: so maybe we should ask the ptls, and make our response from that20:53
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annegentleWe already got away from an all-PTL TC20:53
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sdaguezhhuabj: ok, but that's not showing it against some clouds? that's just test suite analysis20:53
jeblairttx: we can get the best information that way, and make sure it makes sense as a whole20:53
mikalI don't want a PTL to decide on a plan "everything shall be designated!" and then a new PTL to change it20:53
jgriffithjeblair: that seems reasonable20:54
jgriffithI think we may be making this harder than it need be again20:54
zehiclettx, yes20:54
markwashdhellmann: ah, I was familiar with that etherpad, it is illustrative but too broad of a stroke in some cases to be useful20:54
jgriffithI'd say clarify the goal20:54
ttxjeblair: we should definitely be engaging with PTLs rather than discuss it just here20:54
jgriffithPTL's bring recommendations/thoughts to TC and we move forward20:54
zehiclettx, I was hoping that you'd discuss the pricples for selection ( I added a strawman to that wiki page)20:54
ttxOK, to move forward i'll metion it in the PTLs / release / prject meetin gnext20:55
jlibosvamarkmcclain: hi, sorry about the delay, can we discuss https://review.openstack.org/#/c/75924/ now?20:55
russellbi think we're going to waste so much time debating this, sigh20:55
ttxzehicle: damn, missed the addition20:55
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zehiclequestion: do you want a response from DefCore?20:55
lifelesso my concern on PTLs20:55
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lifelessis that PTLs are arbitrators, not dictators20:56
zehicleor should have have an interactive meeting first?  It looks like the TC is making progress20:56
ttxrussellb: yes, I'd rather just ignore the whole thing20:56
markmczehicle, a clarification, in prose, with examples and rationale of what DefCore is looking for would be great20:56
dhellmannlifeless: as a PTL, I would ask my team, and be the point of contact for this question20:56
lifelesswhich ties into mikals concern20:56
jgriffithmarkmc: yes please!20:56
ttxzehicle: we'll loop PTLs in that discussion20:56
jeblairmarkmc: ++20:56
russellbttx: well i feel like our response and offer to collaborate on a particular area first was very reasonable, a response to that would be great20:56
zehiclemarkmc, I'd like to do that in collaboration with some TC representatives.20:56
russellbzehicle: ^20:56
ttxand continue this next week...20:56
zehicleThat was the idea of an interactive meeting20:56
markmczehicle, is this not "interactive" ?20:57
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zehiclesorry, yes20:57
ttxzehicle: so yes, an answer to our answer would be cool. At this point I heard "no thanks, please designate sections"20:57
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zehiclevoice enabled with eitherpad20:57
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ttxzehicle: but maybe it could be more subtle20:57
dhellmannI read better than I listen, so either way I would VERY MUCH appreciate having more detailed examples of what a description of designated sections might look like, if this etherpad is not entirely sufficient as a response.20:58
ttxneed to move on20:58
ttx2 min left20:58
russellbhow about an etherpad without ridiculous snark, too20:58
zehiclethe DefCore committee came up with 3 alternatives - I was out last week so did not get a chance to review w/ the DefCore/TC appointees20:58
russellbcompletely not productive20:58
zehiclerussellb, I'm trying...20:58
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dhellmannzehicle: could you post a link to those alternatives? I must have missed them #emailoverload20:59
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mikalzehicle: I would be happy to take a look at a draft defcore response and provide feedback, although asking a few other TC people for feedback would be a good idea as well20:59
zehicleI have not circulated yet - wanted to get byin from my cochair before blasting them20:59
dhellmannzehicle: ok20:59
zehiclemikal, adding you and annegentle to the doc20:59
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ttxzehicle: ok, post it when ready20:59
annegentlezehicle: sounds good20:59
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* ttx moves on for last minute mentions20:59
ttx#topic Other governance changes20:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)"20:59
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ttx* Graduate Sahara (ex. Savanna) project (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79766/)21:00
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ttx* Add Networking Program mission (https://review.openstack.org/#/c/79744/)21:00
ttxShara will be formally approved when it reaches the threashold21:00
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ttxtyping too fast21:00
jeblairrenamed again!21:00
annegentlejeblair: hee21:00
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ttxNetworking program mission will be approved unless someone complains21:00
ttxthat's all for this week21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 21:01:04 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-18-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-18-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-03-18-20.01.log.html21:01
* dhellmann shall return for the project meeting shortly21:01
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SergeyLukjanovjeblair, no, please, not one more renaming...21:01
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ttxdhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, jd__, markwash, jgriffith, russellb, stevebaker, david-lyle, markmcclain, hub_cap: around ?21:02
ttx#startmeeting project21:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 21:03:28 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)"21:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'project'21:03
SergeyLukjanov:) it was o/21:03
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annegentleSergeyLukjanov: cool trick :)21:04
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SergeyLukjanovannegentle, it's the russian letter on the same button with 'o' :)21:04
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting21:05
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ttx#topic Current Feature freeze exceptions: status review21:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Current Feature freeze exceptions: status review (Meeting topic: project)"21:05
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ttxWe have just a few FFEs still running at this point:21:05
ttx* cinder/prophetstor-dpl-driver21:05
ttxThis one is likely to be deferred at Cinder meeting tomorrow, unless it's ready to go in AND core people there want that new driver in Icehouse21:05
ttx* neutron/ml2-deprecated-plugin-migration21:05
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ttxThis one is a migration script that improves the Neutron Icehouse story21:06
ttxPending https://review.openstack.org/#/c/76533/, needs to be in before EOW21:06
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ttx* nova/smarter-network-cache-update21:06
ttxOK cool21:06
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ttx* nova/rpc-major-version-updates-icehouse21:06
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russellb*just* merged21:06
markmcclainttx: two cores are currently reconciling a testing bug they found21:06
russellband marked implemented21:06
ttxmerged now ?21:06
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ttxOK, that's all I have. Anything I missed ?21:06
jgriffithseems about right from here21:07
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ttxalrighty then21:08
ttx#topic RC1 buglists21:08
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ttx#link http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/21:08
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ttx(Still need to fix the redirect on status.o.o at some point)21:08
russellbsome sharp drops today21:08
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ttxyes, that's the "ttx comes back from vacation and asks for cleanup" effect21:08
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ttxWe need to quickly get those lines set up at their relevant height and then start burning them down21:09
ttxThe idea is to try to get to 0 release-critical bugs sometimes next week so that we can tag the first RC1s then. So...21:09
ttx(1) make sure that you only list release-critical bugs in there (you can use a tag to track the nice to haves)21:09
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ttx(2) go through the other reported bugs and make sure all known release-critical issues are tracked21:09
* russellb uses icehouse-rc-potential as the nice to have tag21:09
russellbif we want to be consistent ...21:09
ttxrussellb: +121:09
ttx(3) burn them down21:09
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ttxQuestions on that process ?21:09
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markmcclainrussellb: +121:10
devanandattx: just curious, what would be needed to get a similar graph going for incubated projects?21:10
ttxAt this point I think neutron, and maybe Cinder, are still flying a bit high21:10
tjones1ttx: can you paste the link again?  i joined late21:10
ttxso they are either really broken or have not refined their lists enough :)21:10
russellbtjones1: http://old-wiki.openstack.org/rc/21:10
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markmcclainttx: there's more refinement to be done21:11
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jgriffithttx: same here as per this morning21:11
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ttxmarkmcclain, jgriffith: good news!21:11
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ttxTry to get the lists refined asap, like before EOD tomorrow21:12
ttxI'd like to start looking into the evolution of those curves as a useful metric rather than cleanup artifacts21:12
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ttxOK, moving on21:13
ttx#topic Dependency freeze21:13
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ttxzigo raised an interesting discussion on the ML about dependency freeze, and I'd like us to discuss when and how we can achieve that21:13
ttx#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030277.html21:13
ttxFeature freeze is in effect but some dependency changes are not feature-related, and Swift is not feature-frozen yet21:13
ttxWhen do you think we can freeze addition of new dependencies ?21:13
ttxWhen do you think we can freeze dependency version bumps ?21:13
notmynameswift is ok from a dependency perspective21:14
ttxAnd final question... Do you think we can use openstack/requirements to enforce that, or its scope is too braod for us to leverage it ?21:14
ttxLast release I had a hard time watching openstack/requirements changes as a way to control the freeze21:14
ttxnotmyname: no dep addition expected at this point ?21:14
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ttxnotmyname: what about dep version bumps ?21:15
notmynamettx: no. at least none that aren't already in openstack/requirements. the only one potential are swiftclient adding six and/or python-keystoneclient21:15
sdaguettx: well we did only just discover trove had requirements not in the global list, so I think that should try to get reconsiled21:15
ttxmordred: your input wanted on final question above21:15
dolphmsomeone on list mentioned pending client releases... would they not be an exception?21:15
jeblairttx: i think os/requirements is exactly for handling this sort of thing21:15
ttxdolphm: up to a given date yes21:15
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sdaguedolphm: why exactly are we always bumping client release minimums in global requirements?21:16
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jeblairttx: reviewers should be apply extra caution to approving those changes, and respect whatever rules we apply to dep freeze21:16
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notmynamettx: same with dependency bumps. we keep dependencies working with centos6/precise generic installs, so no worries from our perspective on version bumps21:16
ttxjeblair: so last cycle there were a lot of extra additions to cover for non-integrated projects21:16
ttxjeblair: like stuff just being added to incubation21:16
jeblairttx: incubated projects?21:16
ttxjeblair: yes21:16
SergeyLukjanovsavannaclient was added after rc1 I think21:17
ttxjeblair: that made it difficult to spot freeze players21:17
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sdagueit's also super common for a new driver in a project to come in with requirements, some reasonable, some odd21:17
ttxnotmyname: good to know, thanks21:17
jeblairttx:  we used to select the mirror based on namespace21:17
jeblairttx: now we select the mirror based on presence in projects.txt in requirements21:17
jeblairttx: so there's no reason to add a project to projects.txt if they can't follow the current rules for that repo21:17
SergeyLukjanovjeblair, ttx, probably, we should ensure that all openstack/ projects are in list?21:18
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jeblairttx: in other words, if an incubated project can't handle the current requirements, then they should wait until after the dep freeze to add themselves to it21:18
SergeyLukjanovjeblair, ++21:18
ttxjeblair: also as soon as we opened master for icehouse dev (after havana-rc1) the slew of new features added deps as well21:18
ttxbasically we didn't cut a stable/havana branch for requirements at RC time21:18
* dhellmann arrives late21:19
devanandasdague: we're starting to push out requirements for optional drivers. AIUI, those dont need to be in global requirements21:19
sdaguemy opinion is we should resolve sqla and the 3 trove requirements, and call it frozen after that point21:19
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jeblairttx: i _think_ a milestone-propose branch for requirements would probably work21:19
ttxanyway, we can work on the details of using openstack/requirements to control the dep freeze, if you all think we should be able to use that21:19
devanandasdague: let the driver load fail if its dependency isn't present, rather than enforce all those dependencies are installed even when a deployer doesn't want to use those drivers21:20
jogosdague: ++ to resolving trove issues first21:20
jeblairttx: and then branch stable/icehouse on requirements from that too21:20
ttxthe main question is WHEn we can enforce that freeze21:20
jeblairttx: that's untested afaik, so we'll need to pay close attention to that21:20
ttxnow ? next week ?21:20
sdaguehowever, I think you will find the the requirements reviewers are a pretty diverse set, which probably needs to be revisited, because there is definitely some uneveness in there21:20
ttxhow about next week, so that we can prepare any branch magic in openstack/requirements that may be needed21:20
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ttxsdague: if we rely on a MP branch, or a stable branch, the set of reviewers change21:21
sdagueI think that's fine, the 4 reviews in question are up21:21
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sdaguettx: true21:21
ttxsdague: so that could actually work21:21
sdagueI guess that would be a thing for next time21:21
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dhellmannsdague: +1 to reviewing the list of reviewers21:22
mordredttx: sup?21:22
mordredttx: reading21:22
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ttxShould we first freeze additions and then bumps ?21:22
ttxor do a one-step dep freeze with exceptions ?21:22
dhellmannit seems like the process for the latter is simpler21:23
jeblair(anyone want to volunteer to be the requirements ptl?)21:23
markmcclain+1 for simple21:23
ttxdhellmann: yes, i'm leaning towards that too21:23
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dhellmannjeblair: I thought we already had one21:23
* markwash touches his nose21:24
mordredttx: I agree with jeblair on everything he said21:24
ttxso. Dep freeze Tuesday next week, working out the details around using openstack/requirements to enforce it by then ?21:24
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ttxworks for everyone ?21:25
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sdaguejeblair: so I kind of naturally assume that should be the release manager, so I nominate ttx21:25
notmynamettx: works for swift21:25
sdaguettx: I think that will be fine21:25
jeblairsdague: seconded21:25
dhellmannsdague: +121:25
markmcclainsdague: +121:26
dhellmannttx: that works for me21:26
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* ttx is honored -- just note that for a requirements PTL I'm way behind in requirements regular reviews :)21:26
SergeyLukjanovttx, fwiw +121:26
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dhellmannttx: we should announce the pending freeze on the ML, too21:26
ttxright, that's why I say one week -- sounds like the minimum notice21:26
ttx#agreed Dep freeze Tuesday next week21:27
ttx#action ttx to work out the details around using openstack/requirements to enforce depfreeze before next week21:27
ttxOK, thanks everyone21:27
ttx#topic UTF-8 charset migrations for oslo-db21:27
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ttxmarkwash: floor is yours21:28
markwashyay me21:28
markwashI put some relevant links in the agenda21:28
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markwashthe basic problem is that db tables should have UTF-8 as the charset21:28
markwashbut the migration in cases where they *arent* already utf8 are pretty scary21:28
markwashand we think the deployer ultimately has to be responsible for it21:28
markwashbut there are a few options21:29
dolphmmarkwash: what makes them scary?21:29
markwash1) we could just immediately require utf-8 with no migration21:29
markwash2) we could provide a migration21:29
dhellmanndolphm: we have to re-encode the data in the tables21:29
markwash3) or we could have a deprecation period where we say "you better fix this but we won't hose you yet!)21:29
sdaguedhellmann: we did data migrations all the time in nova, why is that a problem?21:30
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markwashI'm also concerned about he migration being a whole lot of time and work for folks who maybe don't actually have any utf8 characters21:30
markwashbut maybe that's just me being silly21:30
bnemecI think we're primarily basing this on http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/029708.html21:30
dhellmannsdague: we would have to write one for each table, no? maybe that would work.21:30
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bnemecWhich suggested this isn't as simple as "make everything utf8".21:31
sdaguemarkwash: ascii -> utf8 is a no op right, just a type flip21:31
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dolphmwe did something like this for keystone, all affected tables in one migration: https://github.com/openstack/keystone/blob/master/keystone/common/sql/migrate_repo/versions/005_set_utf8_character_set.py21:31
dolphmi don't think i've ever seen a single bug report against that migration21:31
markwashsdague: well, its probably latin1, I don't think there is any thing that verifies that you don't have any high-bit-set characters to decide if you can do the easy or the hard form of the migration21:32
dhellmannmaybe that ML post made it a bigger deal than it is?21:32
markwashdolphm: that's encouraging, but many public clouds don't run keystone yet :not a trollface:21:32
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sdaguemarkwash: I honestly think #2 has been the default operating model for openstack21:32
dolphmmarkwash: ack :)21:32
sdagueand the commits should come with giant UpgradeImpact on them21:32
sdagueespecially a warning that this might take a long time21:33
dolphmsdague: ++21:33
markwashsdague: yeah, that would work to handle the lengthiness21:33
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markwashI'm still worried about possible corruption as was illuminated in the ML thread21:33
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markwashbut I don't understand it perfectly so21:34
markwash. . .21:34
sdagueand is this only a mysql issue?21:34
dolphmmarkwash: i'm not sure what to say about corruption without being able to reproduce and understand it :(21:34
bnemecsdague: Yes21:34
sdagueyeh, it would be good to build a test case for what bad data here ends up looking like21:34
dhellmannsdague: IIUC, it has to do with mysql having many ways to set defaults, and then changing those defaults between versions21:34
dhellmannassuming we write the needed migration(s), does that mean we don't need an option to turn off the charset check in oslo?21:35
markwashdolphm: I think its basically utf8(latin1(binary(utf8(foo)))) != utf8(foo)21:35
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markwashsomething to that effect21:35
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markwashdhellmann: that's correct. if theres a migration we don't need a switch21:36
dhellmannmarkwash: ok21:36
sdagueso you could probably be smarter and figure out if there is anything high bit before doing the migration21:36
sdaguefor fastpath21:36
sdaguewith a raw bulk query21:36
markwashdolphm: the supposition being that utf8 data was going into some latin1 tables via binary(utf8(foo))21:36
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dolphmmarkwash: i'd have to try it, but i'd expect something to throw an exception before that succeeded :-/21:37
markwashsdague: I'm not realy confident we can confidently catch those kinds of errors :-( that's why I want to pass the ball to deployers21:37
markwashapparently my standard is double confidence21:38
sdaguemarkwash: that's a giant punt though21:38
sdague"hey guys, we screwed up, we don't know how to fix it. You tell you fixed it before we do anything"21:38
markwashwell, except we only screwed up by allowing them to screw up with latin1 as a default21:39
markwashso there's a slight political out21:39
sdaguemarkwash: sure, but that was still our fault21:39
jgriffithI'm just curious, haven't all the other projects already done this?21:39
sdaguelike when we forced everything to innodb21:39
dolphmmarkwash: if it's possible to detect corruption at migration time, and abort... that would be beneficial to the 99% of deployments that *don't* have corruption to worry about21:39
jgriffithI mean... cidner just looped through and did a convert to UTF8 in it's base migration21:39
jgriffithnot sure about others21:39
markwashjgriffith: great question! if I'm just behind the times that's fine I can pipe down :-)21:40
jgriffithmarkwash: no no... I'm just wondering, maybe this is more flushed out than we think21:40
jgriffithmarkwash: ie lower risk21:40
ttxYep, it sounds safe to align with what other projects have done. At least you can deflect blame on them when all else fails21:40
jgriffithttx: ha!21:40
markwashanyway it sounds like the general push here is to just go with a utf8 migration21:40
markwashless deflection, more contextualization ;-)21:41
markwashso I can take "allow utf8 migration" as the message21:41
markwashand we can move on21:41
ttxI hear Cinder and keystone have migrations doing it, I think Glance is in the same bag21:41
ttxusual-dataset-size-wise ?21:42
markwashseems likely, especially with cinder21:42
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ttxso yeah, i don't think it's special enough to justify diverging21:42
markwasheveryone is special :-)21:43
ttxthe other ones seem to have not caused that much havoc21:43
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ttxmarkwash: can we move on ?21:43
ttx#topic Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints21:43
*** openstack changes topic to "Red Flag District / Blocked blueprints (Meeting topic: project)"21:43
jgriffithmarkwash: and nova21:43
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ttxAny inter-project blocked work that this meeting could help unblock ?21:43
ttxany RC bug fix needing some other project to do work for them ?21:43
ttxThat will come in due time, I guess21:45
ttx#topic Incubated projects21:45
*** openstack changes topic to "Incubated projects (Meeting topic: project)"21:45
SergeyLukjanovre sahara rc1 - https://launchpad.net/sahara/+milestone/icehouse-rc121:45
ttxSergeyLukjanov, kgriffs, devananda: you still belong here :)21:45
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SergeyLukjanovttx, we're now in renaming hell, should complete 95% of it this week21:45
ttxSergeyLukjanov: OK, a lot left to cover I see21:46
ttxSergeyLukjanov: when you're done, maybe trim the RC1 buglist to only contain release-critical issues21:46
SergeyLukjanovttx, yup, so, we'd like to have +1w before the rc1 I think21:46
ttxso that we can reach RC1 in a reasonable time21:46
SergeyLukjanovttx, sure, that's I'm planning to do21:46
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ttxRC1 in two weeks is fine by me, for incubated projects21:47
SergeyLukjanovttx, it should work for us21:47
ttxleaves well enough time to catch a regression and respin21:47
ttxnot as much integration concerns as for integrated release projects21:47
devanandawe're focusing on getting CI up and the various bugs we're finding along the way21:48
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devanandai'm doing triage a couple times a week to keep ^ accurate21:48
ttxdevananda: is that buglist listing all release-critical fixes you'd like to get in before your icehouse release ?21:48
ttxok, sounds like you're in good shape21:49
devanandaas far as docs go, a quick question21:49
devanandawe're aiming at hosting deployer docs in the same repo as our developer docs for now21:49
devanandais that reasonable?21:49
devanandaeg, docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/21:50
annegentledevananda: yep it's fine21:50
ttxdevananda: ideally you would come up with someting usable enough so that people would actually play with that release as an alternative to nova-bm21:50
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devanandaannegentle: thanks21:50
ttxthat should get you new bugs for Juno :)21:50
devanandattx: we have that :)21:50
annegentledevananda: think of eventually fitting into one of the install guides (we have four for four distros)21:50
devanandattx: in devstack, you now can just set 2 ENV vars and it switches everything to ironic21:50
ttxdevananda: now you just need to market it :)21:50
devanandattx: yep, heh... deployer docs will help a lot there I think21:50
ttxdevananda: the goal is to limit the effects of "not being integrated" to a bare minimum21:51
ttxso yes, easy devstack switching is a good idea21:51
devanandaannegentle: i know that's the goal, just not sure how we ca do that prior to graduation / without help from you(r team). happy to talk out of meeting if you have suggestions21:51
devanandattx: ack. will keep that in mind21:52
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ttxdevananda: could also engage with distros in early Juno so that they fully support ironic in their next set21:52
devanandamoving the nova "ironic" driver into our codebase has made that so much simpler.21:52
devanandattx: afaik, RH and Deb/ubuntu are both packaging ironic in their next releases21:53
ttxdevananda: great21:53
devanandattx: http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=ironic21:53
lifelesszigo has debian covered, RH are shipping tripleo so definitely have ironic covered21:53
ttxbut packaged doesn't mean it works :) tested means it works :)21:53
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ttxany other question from our still-incubated-in-icehouse crowd ?21:54
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ttx#topic Open discussion21:55
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ttxsummit.o.o is open for session suggestion since March 721:55
ttx96 proposals at this point21:55
ttxkeep them coming21:56
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:56
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hub_capthx ttx!21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:57
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 21:57:14 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:57
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-18-21.03.html21:57
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-18-21.03.txt21:57
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-03-18-21.03.log.html21:57
ttxThanks everyone21:57
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s3wongserviceVM meeting, right?23:01
yamahataright. Glad to see other one unlike last week.23:01
yamahatalet's start23:01
yamahata#startmeeting neutron/servicevm23:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Mar 18 23:01:38 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.23:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.23:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"23:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_servicevm'23:01
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yamahata#topic logistics23:01
*** openstack changes topic to "logistics (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"23:01
yamahataThis timeslot is temporal. and there are another proposal.23:02
yamahataSo we'd like to agree on better timeslot.23:02
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yamahataSo far related timezone is23:02
s3wongthe current timeslot is OK for us PDT/PST people :-)23:03
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yamahataSome is uncomfortable with it.23:03
swestonI don't have any special needs.  Yes, it is fine in the US, but is fairly undoable for a lot of time zones.23:03
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yamahataJST(UTC+9), PST(UTC-8), PDT(UTC-7), EST(UTC-5) and IST(UTC+5.3)23:05
s3wongso what is the new proposal(s)23:05
s3wongfor meeting time23:05
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swestonwhat are the requests for? earlier or later?23:06
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yamahataI'm thinking of some hours later.23:07
s3wongnow is 23:00 UTC, one would imagine it should be earlier (in the day)23:08
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yamahatawondering it also works for EST and IST23:08
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yamahatayes, I mean 2:00UTC, 3:00UTC23:09
s3wongyamahata: probably not working for Europe time23:09
yamahatas3wong: right. Unfortunately there is no timezome that works for all asia, europe and us.23:10
swestonwhere is the majority of the interest right now?23:10
s3wongI am in US (Pacific timezone)23:11
yamahataPST/EST, JST, IST. I'm not aware of europe time.23:11
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yamahataOkay, I'll propose on ML and we'll see it.23:12
swestonso utc-5 looks like the best to me23:12
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yamahata5:00 UTC works for me23:13
swestonok, I'd say let's give it a week or two on ML for people to respond, then change it.23:14
yamahata#action propose new timeslot 5:00 UTC on the ml23:14
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yamahata#action yamahata propose new timeslot 5:00 utc on the ml23:15
yamahatanext topic is f2f meeting.23:16
swestonmeetbot must have left ...23:16
s3wong@23:00, meetbot is sleeping :-)23:16
yamahataIt is possible for me to organize f2f meeting in Santa Clara on April 17 or 18.23:16
swestonhehe, meetbot needs rest too23:17
s3wongyamahata: f2f meeting in Santa Clara is fine with me23:17
yamahataDo we want to have it? given it's only 1 month before the summit.23:17
swestonthe last one generated a good deal of interest ... I guess it depends on what would be discussed.23:18
yamahataMaybe it can be done at the summit.23:18
s3wongyamahata: this is not Icehouse feature, so having discussion at J-Summit would still be OK23:18
yamahatas3wong: I've proposed the topic for J summit.23:19
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swestonI agree.  no reason to get everyone together if we're just all going to see each other in a month23:20
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yamahataThen let's skip this time.23:20
yamahatanext thing is frequency.23:21
yamahataI think the meeting will be held weekly at first. then we can switch to bi-weekly.23:22
s3wongyamahata: OK23:22
yamahataany other topic related to logistics?23:23
swestonI don't have anyting23:23
s3wongall good23:23
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yamahata#topic current-status23:23
*** openstack changes topic to "current-status (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"23:23
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yamahataAs agreed at I-summit, I'm working on servicevm for lbaas.23:24
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yamahataI've implemented API/DB model part, lbaas-driver(plugin-part), neutron-command, devstack.23:25
yamahataand oslo.messaging23:25
yamahataI'm working on lbaas-agent and VM image.23:26
yamahataMy estimation is 1 week or two to have working service VM that runs haproxy inside vm.23:27
yamahataThe blueprint for horizon GUI is proposed.23:27
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swestonokay ... is there anything that you need that anyone can help with, at this point?23:28
s3wongyamahata: if I instantiate LBaaS, how can I specify if I am using the current container model vs VM based?23:28
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yamahatasweston: patch review and API review.23:29
yamahatas3wong: Right now it is chosen by config file.23:29
yamahatas3wong: In future, it could be chosen dynamically by service provider extension when lbaas supports it.23:30
swestonokay, I can help with that ... do you have a list of reviews I can start on?23:30
yamahata#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/56892/23:31
yamahata#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72068/23:31
yamahata#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77862/23:31
yamahata#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/77863/23:31
yamahata#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72070/23:31
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s3wongyamahata: could be part of the flavor framework in the future23:32
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swestonokay, I have them on my reading list now23:32
yamahatas3wong: maybe yes when lbaas supports it.23:32
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yamahatathe discussion for GUI has been started. There is mock image. would be interesting23:34
yamahata#link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/horizon/+spec/neutron-adv-svc-vm23:35
yamahata#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Horizon-NFV-configuration#NFV_instances23:36
s3wongyamahata: yeah, there is a nova context in there too. Does the tenant get charged for one vm?23:36
yamahatas3wong: it's open question for now. The current implementation doesn't, though.23:37
yamahataIt needs consideration. Do you have any idea?23:38
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s3wongyamahata: it is interesting, because now you are introducing "service VM" in nova also (thus it would know not to charge tenant)23:39
swestonwell, it's an api right?  so if there's expressed interest, we can add a multiplier .. but that might open up a can of worms23:39
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yamahatas3wong: VM is created with a dedicated user for now. not by the original user.23:40
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yamahatas3wong: there isurely s a requirement that tenants want to create its own servicevm and manage them themselves.23:41
s3wongyamahata: OK. Good start23:42
yamahataany other questions?23:43
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swestonnot right now, not from me at least23:43
s3wonggood, will take a look at your code23:43
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swestons3wong: agree23:44
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yamahatahigh level review of API will also help23:45
s3wongyamahata: OK23:45
yamahata#link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZWDDTjwhIUedyipkDztM0_nBYgfCEP9Q77hhn1ZduCA/edit#23:46
swestonyamahata okay23:46
yamahata# open topic23:46
yamahata#topic open23:46
*** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: neutron/servicevm)"23:46
yamahataAny open topic to discuss?23:46
swestonI don't have anything ... s3wong?23:46
s3wongNot for now23:47
yamahataokay, thanks.23:47
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"23:47
swestonawesome.  thanks, everyone ... this was a good start :-)23:47
openstackMeeting ended Tue Mar 18 23:47:44 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)23:47
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-03-18-23.01.html23:47
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-03-18-23.01.txt23:47
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_servicevm/2014/neutron_servicevm.2014-03-18-23.01.log.html23:47
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