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| Sam-I-Am | howdy | 03:01 |
|---|---|---|
| loquacities | heya | 03:01 |
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| darrenc | hi | 03:01 |
| loquacities | do we have a quorum this week? | 03:01 |
| loquacities | slong? | 03:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | i havent seen slong in eons | 03:01 |
| loquacities | yeah, me neither | 03:02 |
| loquacities | and the red hatters aren't in this room | 03:02 |
| loquacities | i'm pinging them in the other chan | 03:02 |
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| loquacities | ok, so we don't have a lot of people here, but let's start and see what happens | 03:06 |
| loquacities | i haven't done this is in a while, i have to remember where i left everything ... | 03:06 |
| brucer | here | 03:06 |
| loquacities | #startmeeting docteam | 03:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 2 03:06:53 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 03:06 |
| loquacities | just pulling up the logs from the last US meeting ... | 03:07 |
| loquacities | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:07 | |
| loquacities | Anne to send IBM Style Guide Kindle to berendt | 03:08 |
| loquacities | Anne to send IBM Style Guide Kindle to phil_h | 03:08 |
| loquacities | that's it! | 03:08 |
| loquacities | anyone in APAC need an IBM book? | 03:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | it was a little nonexistant | 03:08 |
| Sam-I-Am | although i did find it interesting that the ibm style guide suggests gerunds for titles :P | 03:08 |
| loquacities | good! | 03:09 |
| * loquacities likes gerunds | 03:09 | |
| annegentle | I don't think I have the accounts for those two, will follow up. | 03:09 |
| loquacities | i assume the red hatters have IBM books already | 03:09 |
| loquacities | and i know i've asked you to send some to my team | 03:09 |
| annegentle | I have print copies in Austin so let me know if you want one | 03:09 |
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| dnavale | yup.. we do | 03:09 |
| loquacities | cool | 03:10 |
| loquacities | #topic Discuss a doc-spec repo and doc-spec template | 03:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss a doc-spec repo and doc-spec template (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:10 | |
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| annegentle | loquacities: those arrived in destination country yesterday :) | 03:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | is this a replacement for blueprints? | 03:10 |
| loquacities | annegentle: did you want to talk about the doc-spec stuff? | 03:10 |
| annegentle | o/ | 03:10 |
| annegentle | sure | 03:10 |
| loquacities | oh, cool, i should have them any day then | 03:10 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: docs-spec template replaces the wiki page link | 03:11 |
| annegentle | blueprints are still tracked in Launchpad | 03:11 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103115/ | 03:11 |
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| Sam-I-Am | hmm ok | 03:11 |
| annegentle | the template is there ^^ | 03:11 |
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| annegentle | I'm going to make one more tweak I think -- I did an informal poll about who the review team typically is | 03:11 |
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| annegentle | the way it's set up now, it'll be a separate team from docs-core | 03:11 |
| annegentle | who approves blueprints | 03:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | eeeeeo yaml | 03:12 |
| annegentle | some projects do it that way | 03:12 |
| loquacities | hrm, ok | 03:12 |
| asettle | hmph loquacities | 03:12 |
| loquacities | heya asettle :) | 03:12 |
| annegentle | #link https://github.com/annegentle/docs-specs/blob/master/template.rst | 03:12 |
| annegentle | ^^ that's the template | 03:13 |
| annegentle | sorry misplaced link | 03:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | that works | 03:13 |
| annegentle | I sent an email Monday (your Tues) that talks about the balancing act here | 03:13 |
| annegentle | I only want up front design for large changes | 03:13 |
| annegentle | otherwise, just effing write for pity's sake | 03:14 |
| loquacities | LOL | 03:14 |
| annegentle | :) | 03:14 |
| annegentle | loquacities: I thought you'd appreciate that | 03:14 |
| annegentle | don't write to write, just write. | 03:14 |
| loquacities | i think that's a very sane approach :) | 03:14 |
| annegentle | I don't want heavy handed reviews either | 03:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | ahhh well crap, you've come to the wrong place | 03:14 |
| annegentle | so I _think_ (but want input) that a small core review team makes sense | 03:14 |
| loquacities | yeah, possibly | 03:15 |
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| loquacities | the problem with that is what happens as people drift away or get preoccupied | 03:15 |
| annegentle | small core review team? Or specs not getting enough updates? | 03:15 |
| loquacities | small core team | 03:15 |
| annegentle | yeah. could just be me, Sean, Andreas, and Brian to cover the projects within Docs. training, tools, security | 03:16 |
| annegentle | and that seems ok for the workload, we only have 3 to review for juno | 03:16 |
| loquacities | yeah, i worry about failover | 03:16 |
| loquacities | but we can probably deal with that as it arises anyway | 03:16 |
| annegentle | yeah release to release who knows | 03:16 |
| loquacities | +1 | 03:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | dont get hit by a bus | 03:17 |
| dnavale | +1 | 03:17 |
| loquacities | +1 :) | 03:17 |
| dnavale | lol | 03:17 |
| loquacities | #topic Training-guides now in Docs program; security-guide now in Docs program | 03:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Training-guides now in Docs program; security-guide now in Docs program (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:17 | |
| annegentle | heh I'm a very careful driver | 03:17 |
| annegentle | so those were both voted in by the TC with no questions or concerns | 03:17 |
| loquacities | yeah, not sure there's much more we need to say there | 03:18 |
| annegentle | yup | 03:18 |
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| loquacities | but there it is, in case anyone didn't notice | 03:18 |
| annegentle | news blast! :) | 03:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | wish i had more time to get involved in the training guides | 03:18 |
| loquacities | #topic Discuss publishing to /dev; /current; /drafts; other ideas | 03:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss publishing to /dev; /current; /drafts; other ideas (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:18 | |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: just keep doing good install guides and they'll benefit :) | 03:18 |
| loquacities | yeah, true that | 03:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure | 03:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | so yeah, this... differentiation of docs | 03:19 |
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| loquacities | yeah, i don't think i'm up on this bit | 03:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | also need to keep google's nose out of things | 03:19 |
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| Sam-I-Am | there's an e-mail thread on the list about it | 03:19 |
| loquacities | oh, because it's indexing /dev? | 03:19 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, /trunk | 03:19 |
| loquacities | i think i saw that on a patch | 03:19 |
| loquacities | right | 03:20 |
| loquacities | seems like the workaround is pretty kludgy | 03:20 |
| annegentle | yeah the /trunk naming was a holdover from bazaar/bzr days | 03:20 |
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| Sam-I-Am | with the install guide in particular, people liked trunk because it usually had less bugs.. or something. | 03:20 |
| annegentle | git calls it master, bzr calls it trunk | 03:20 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think its trunk in svn too | 03:20 |
| annegentle | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-June/004664.html | 03:20 |
| loquacities | dammit, open source | 03:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | another possibly similar question came up early with the api docs. how does one know which api version applies to which release(s) ? | 03:21 |
| loquacities | do we have the capability of doing watermarks or something? | 03:21 |
| annegentle | loquacities: yes | 03:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | i havent had much time to look into it, but it seemed like a valid concern | 03:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | can we watermark web pages? | 03:21 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: there's no match because for example Keystone v3 can run on havana or icehouse. It's provider choice. | 03:22 |
| loquacities | docbook is capable, as long as our CSS is | 03:22 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yes | 03:22 |
| annegentle | loquacities: Sam-I-Am: there's a setting in the pom.xml | 03:22 |
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| Sam-I-Am | cool | 03:22 |
| loquacities | so maybe we could watermark with the release name or something for things in /trunk? | 03:22 |
| annegentle | so, draft? | 03:22 |
| annegentle | "don'tcomplainifthisdoesn'twork" | 03:22 |
| loquacities | yeah, draft is probably adequate | 03:22 |
| loquacities | lol | 03:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | draft seems pretty standard | 03:23 |
| brucer | "very drafty" ? | 03:23 |
| annegentle | brucer: will give you the sniffles | 03:23 |
| loquacities | hehe | 03:23 |
| brucer | (= full of holes?) | 03:23 |
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| Sam-I-Am | and then to keep the googles away | 03:24 |
| annegentle | works but only if you install from source | 03:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | also still have that bug open about marking outdated stuff | 03:24 |
| annegentle | seems like we could do this just for the install guide | 03:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | i still have tons of grizzly stuff come up on my searches | 03:24 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1191447 | 03:24 |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1191447 in openstack-manuals "Clearly mark outdated doc pages" [Critical,Confirmed] | 03:24 |
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| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: any doc with a specific releace cycle | 03:24 |
| loquacities | i imagine you could use a watermark for that too | 03:24 |
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| annegentle | fifieldt said in the comments he didn't think a watermark helped, but we can overrule :) | 03:24 |
| Sam-I-Am | or any new doc, perhaps | 03:24 |
| loquacities | although possibly now that i have a hammer, everything is looking like a nail | 03:25 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: install and config are only two matching a release cycle | 03:25 |
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| Sam-I-Am | its interesting that most of the time, google returns grizzly docs. i wonder what happened in grizzly that made google happy. | 03:25 |
| annegentle | loquacities: that does happen but I do think the watermark is a known standard and we should at least use it since it's at our disposal | 03:25 |
| loquacities | yeah, agreed | 03:25 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: everyone's still referring to those because they still run grizzly | 03:25 |
| loquacities | it doesn't seem too crazy | 03:25 |
| loquacities | and it works around the google problem | 03:25 |
| annegentle | loquacities: +1 for not-crazy | 03:25 |
| loquacities | there's a LOT of grizzly installs out there, i think | 03:26 |
| Sam-I-Am | did we have a way in mind to prevent indexing of draft? | 03:26 |
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| annegentle | yes based on the user survey | 03:26 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: the sitemap has been updated to remove /trunk (and nothing else is added) | 03:26 |
| annegentle | so I think this is fairly well sorted, the next step would be watermark | 03:26 |
| loquacities | ok, cool | 03:26 |
| loquacities | APAC docs team next problem: world hunger | 03:27 |
| annegentle | multiple steps after that would be a complete redesign but that's not the scope | 03:27 |
| annegentle | whirled peas | 03:27 |
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| Sam-I-Am | loquacities: more like eppo | 03:27 |
| loquacities | mmm ... tasty .... | 03:27 |
| loquacities | #topic New glance team mission means possible Image Service rename | 03:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New glance team mission means possible Image Service rename (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:27 | |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: sworld peace would be easier | 03:27 |
| annegentle | so I would looooove input here | 03:27 |
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| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98002/. | 03:27 |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/98002/ | 03:27 |
| loquacities | sorry, random period crept in there | 03:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | i guess this isnt a huge deal | 03:28 |
| Sam-I-Am | just a lot of work | 03:28 |
| loquacities | "artifact repository"? | 03:29 |
| loquacities | who comes up with this stuff? | 03:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | however, continous release docs might confuse people using earlier versions | 03:29 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: my sense of it is we can refer to the image service when it's serving images, it just won't be the OpenStack Image Service | 03:29 |
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| annegentle | loquacities: tee hee | 03:29 |
| annegentle | concern with repository is that it's not actually storing | 03:29 |
| loquacities | yeah | 03:29 |
| annegentle | artifact catalog is closer to technically accurate | 03:29 |
| dnavale | is there a doc bug raised for this one? | 03:29 |
| loquacities | and the term is way overused, too | 03:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | the word artifact is meh | 03:29 |
| annegentle | dnavale: not that I know of, good idea for tracking | 03:29 |
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| loquacities | i haven't seen a doc bug | 03:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | how about just... catalog | 03:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | or thingcubator | 03:30 |
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| dnavale | i'll raise one | 03:30 |
| loquacities | lol | 03:30 |
| dnavale | and Sam-I-Am: that sounds awesome | 03:31 |
| loquacities | i think i want to dive into this more before i comment | 03:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | just saying there's other, potentially more fun names | 03:31 |
| annegentle | it will enable versioning of the images or templates it gives you | 03:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | artifacts are what happens when your mpeg stream breaks up | 03:32 |
| annegentle | really the artifact for starters is either an image or a heat template | 03:32 |
| loquacities | isn't that artefact? | 03:32 |
| loquacities | or did i make that up? | 03:32 |
| annegentle | loquacities: oh! perhaps that's brit spelling? | 03:32 |
| loquacities | hrm, actually google thinks that's a US/UK english thing | 03:32 |
| * annegentle looks it up | 03:32 | |
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| loquacities | i thought they had two separate meanings, but apparently not | 03:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | well, synonyms for it are... bleh | 03:33 |
| loquacities | anyway, we've digressed | 03:33 |
| loquacities | #topic Installation guide improvements | 03:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Installation guide improvements (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:33 | |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: i believe this is dear to your heart? | 03:33 |
| Sam-I-Am | i guess | 03:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | multiple people are taking part in it | 03:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | we're slowly slogging through it | 03:34 |
| loquacities | excellent | 03:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | ideally i'd like at least the 'core' chapters done in time for the first juno packages to drop | 03:34 |
| loquacities | glad you've got help :) | 03:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | then focus turns to trying to install juno | 03:34 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yes me too, plenty to do on that list | 03:34 |
| loquacities | heh, it's never ending :) | 03:34 |
| loquacities | #topic Conventions and review guide | 03:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Conventions and review guide (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:35 | |
| Sam-I-Am | yes... this. | 03:35 |
| loquacities | has anything been decided here? | 03:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | we originally had the review book | 03:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | then we decided to keep it wiki | 03:35 |
| loquacities | +1 | 03:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | andreas was going to restructure the wiki to make it more useful, then went on vacation | 03:35 |
| Sam-I-Am | the review guide was waiting on those changes | 03:35 |
| loquacities | heh | 03:35 |
| annegentle | yeah I'm not sure if that needed to go back on the agenda, nothing new that I know of | 03:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | there is a lackluster review guide page on the wiki | 03:36 |
| loquacities | ok, cool | 03:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: i put it there because i wondered why there hasnt been progress | 03:36 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: ah | 03:36 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: impatient you are | 03:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | the review guide is important, especially with a release coming up | 03:36 |
| loquacities | true | 03:36 |
| Sam-I-Am | we're the #1 -1 team lol | 03:36 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: we're not even to milestone-2 | 03:36 |
| loquacities | it's very easy to get bored of this work, though | 03:37 |
| loquacities | so i guess it's good to keep it on the agenda and poking people | 03:37 |
| annegentle | true loquacities | 03:37 |
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| loquacities | ok, moving on | 03:37 |
| loquacities | #topic Doc tools updates - xi include more than once; swift options | 03:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools updates - xi include more than once; swift options (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:37 | |
| loquacities | oh, i saw that update | 03:37 |
| annegentle | so the xi:include enhancements is in 2.0.2 I believe | 03:37 |
| loquacities | excellent | 03:37 |
| loquacities | that will help us a lot, too | 03:38 |
| annegentle | #link https://github.com/stackforge/clouddocs-maven-plugin#clouddocs-maven-plugin-210-june-23-2014 | 03:38 |
| annegentle | nope 2.1.0 | 03:38 |
| annegentle | I released 0.16 of openstack-doc-tools today | 03:38 |
| annegentle | #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-doc-tools#016 | 03:39 |
| loquacities | oh cool | 03:39 |
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| loquacities | darrenc: ^^ just wanted to make sure you saw this | 03:39 |
| annegentle | so now you can sorta kinda maybe sorta scrape the swift sample config files for descriptions | 03:39 |
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| loquacities | lol | 03:39 |
| * darrenc looking | 03:39 | |
| annegentle | but I did send a note to the -dev mailing list asking for more descriptions as many are blank for entire portions of configuration | 03:39 |
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| loquacities | there's mail from david cramer on the OS docs list on 25 june | 03:40 |
| annegentle | yep | 03:40 |
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| loquacities | ok, that's everything on the agenda | 03:40 |
| loquacities | #topic Open discussion | 03:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 03:40 | |
| loquacities | any other business? | 03:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | how's continuity with the people changes lately? | 03:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | i see anne is still breathing | 03:41 |
| annegentle | We do have a backfill for David Cramer | 03:41 |
| annegentle | #link http://rackspace.jobs/austin-tx/software-developer-iii/0ACE3ABF718D436DACDAFCC783733CD2/job/ | 03:41 |
| annegentle | hopefully that's not gauche to post here | 03:41 |
| loquacities | hrm, is that strictly austin-based? | 03:41 |
| Sam-I-Am | ooh, i could work at rackspace | 03:42 |
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| loquacities | lol | 03:42 |
| annegentle | loquacities: I wouldn't say so but that's the system. The manager's in SA so I'm guessing it's due to the backfill nature. | 03:42 |
| loquacities | Sam-I-Am: yeah, you *could* :P | 03:42 |
| annegentle | and then backfill for Diane | 03:42 |
| annegentle | #link http://rackspace.jobs/austin-tx/senior-information-developer/84E2230D7FD0451489FE34AFC5F8C163/job/ | 03:42 |
| loquacities | yep, fair enough | 03:42 |
| Sam-I-Am | huh, i thought her title was software developer | 03:42 |
| annegentle | besides, Austin is great :) | 03:42 |
| loquacities | i might send it to some people here, anyway, it can't hurt | 03:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | which is what had me all confused | 03:43 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: yes, not what we got with what we have though | 03:43 |
| loquacities | hey, *i* was a software developer for a few months when i first started too :P | 03:43 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: vague way of saying "it's complicated" | 03:43 |
| annegentle | loquacities: oh yeah! :) | 03:43 |
| Sam-I-Am | heh | 03:44 |
| Sam-I-Am | everything is complicated... | 03:44 |
| brucer | loquacities: you're still one in your spare time, right? | 03:44 |
| loquacities | brucer: hardly | 03:44 |
| brucer | :-) | 03:44 |
| loquacities | in my spare time i'm more 'sit on the couch and watch movies developer' | 03:44 |
| loquacities | ok, i think we've covered the important stuff | 03:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | yep | 03:45 |
| brucer | OK! | 03:45 |
| annegentle | thanks y'all, helpful | 03:45 |
| loquacities | thanks everyone! o/ | 03:45 |
| annegentle | oh wait! | 03:45 |
| annegentle | one more thing | 03:45 |
| * loquacities hangs | 03:45 | |
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| annegentle | we should have a new sphinx template that indicates incubation status | 03:45 |
| annegentle | that'll probably happen this week or next | 03:45 |
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| annegentle | so incubating teams can build with oslosphinx but use an option to add an incubating indicator | 03:45 |
| annegentle | that's all! | 03:45 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103349/ | 03:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | great, something to keep me up all night | 03:46 |
| loquacities | heh, neat | 03:46 |
| dnavale | nice | 03:46 |
| annegentle | if you are fascinated with that read up :) | 03:46 |
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| annegentle | thanks! | 03:46 |
| loquacities | easy, thanks everyone | 03:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | see y'all sometime in the future | 03:46 |
| loquacities | #endmeeting | 03:46 |
| brucer | cheers | 03:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 03:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 2 03:46:54 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 03:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-07-02-03.06.html | 03:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-07-02-03.06.txt | 03:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-07-02-03.06.log.html | 03:46 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:06 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 2 15:06:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:06 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:06 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:06 |
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| BobBall | I'm about 2 seconds ahead of the reminder even though I'm 5 minutes late for the meeting johnthetubaguy :) | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | lol | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | hows things? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | good good | 15:06 |
| BobBall | and you? | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | not too bad thanks | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic CI | 15:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | hows the CI world? | 15:07 |
| BobBall | stopped listening to gerrit events over the w/e | 15:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | (I actually have some updates this week...) | 15:07 |
| BobBall | not sure why | 15:07 |
| BobBall | (it just couldn't connect to gerrit) | 15:07 |
| BobBall | so it might have been a temporary network thing | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, you have hardcoded the IP right, I tried using the hostname | 15:08 |
| BobBall | but apart from that we're all good | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | interesting threads on the ml though | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | about whether we can combine results in gerrit or mandate the use of zuul+jenkins | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, I probably missed those, on the main dev rather than tagged nova I guess? | 15:09 |
| BobBall | yeah | 15:09 |
| BobBall | there's lost of traffic on CIs atm | 15:09 |
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| BobBall | Topic was '3rd Party CI vs. Gerrit' | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | OK, cool | 15:10 |
| BobBall | Have a butchers | 15:11 |
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| BobBall | but I suspect it'll mean that we need to move towards gerrit | 15:11 |
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| BobBall | -gerrit+zuul | 15:11 |
| BobBall | which we're planning to do anyway | 15:11 |
| BobBall | but it makes it more required | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, there is more traction on getting a new CI that tested the combination we used internally, so fingers crossed on that front | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so, I would avoid deploying zuul yourself, we can probably get you into the turbohipster deploy | 15:12 |
| BobBall | is the t-h deploy maintained by rackspace? | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | we have that team hopefully giving us a hand with this, although the timezone is not great | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, turbohipster is michael still's team, and we are trying to get some of there time to help us with XenServer testing, but not certain at this point | 15:13 |
| BobBall | understood | 15:13 |
| BobBall | although I wouldn't want to dilute the t-h tests as such | 15:13 |
| BobBall | i.e. it'd be fine if we could comment as a seperate account + slower than the t-h comments | 15:13 |
| BobBall | dunno if the standard stack lets you use multiple accounts / parallel tests rather than running them all in one job lot | 15:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, its might be a parallel stack, but yeah, all to be worked out | 15:14 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK… | 15:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:16 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 15:16 |
| BobBall | oh - was that your update? :P | 15:16 |
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| BobBall | I was hoping you'd played with your deployment with the fixed config | 15:16 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh yeah | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | I did try that, but nodepool broke | 15:17 |
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| BobBall | in what way? | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | one image "succeeded" then but then all the builds failed | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | the other image builds got stuck | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | then yeah, nodepool just wouldn't start | 15:17 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I kinda had to move on to other things, as I just threw another few hours down the drain on that damm thing :( | 15:18 |
| BobBall | the notepool not starting issue is a bug that's been fixed upstream now | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | you need to rm /var/run/nodepool/nodepool.pid | 15:18 |
| BobBall | because if you kill it the PID is stale | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | and nodepool didn't check the PID for staleness | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | oh, boy, that makes sense | 15:18 |
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| BobBall | I pushed a fix upstream but I don't think it's in our nodepool branch | 15:18 |
| johnthetubaguy | I did run it manually, again, and that didn't seem to work quite right, then the ssh timedout, etc | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I need to get back to that one | 15:19 |
| BobBall | fair enough | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | it didn't quite "just work" is the summary | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | it kinda all fell apart in a heap again | 15:19 |
| BobBall | heh :) | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyway, thanks for the pid thing, thats probably the last straw that made me stop messing with that | 15:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | I should take another peek soon | 15:20 |
| BobBall | it's a very frustating one | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 15:20 |
| BobBall | 1 sec | 15:20 |
| BobBall | I'll get the fix | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | thats OK | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/90052/ | 15:20 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, cool, thanks | 15:20 |
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| BobBall | you can cherry-pick it easily enough | 15:21 |
| BobBall | no more from me | 15:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks for the chat | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | catch you next week | 15:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:22 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 2 15:22:33 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:22 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-07-02-15.06.html | 15:22 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-07-02-15.06.txt | 15:22 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-07-02-15.06.log.html | 15:22 |
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| jgriffith | cinder meeting :) | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | #startmeeting cinder | 16:01 |
| * DuncanT waves | 16:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 2 16:01:17 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:01 |
| avishay | hello | 16:01 |
| rushiagr | o/ | 16:01 |
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| mtanino | hello | 16:01 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:01 |
| kmartin | hi | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | hey everyone | 16:01 |
| tbarron | hello | 16:01 |
| jgriffith | I'm going to hijack the agenda for a second cuz I can :) | 16:01 |
| DuncanT | Agenda as usual at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Hello. | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | #topic blueprints | 16:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "blueprints (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:02 | |
| jgriffith | ok... so pop quiz: how many BP's were targetted for J1? | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | anyone? | 16:02 |
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| rushiagr | link plz? :P | 16:02 |
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| avishay | feels like a trick question | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: no link... it's a quiz | 16:02 |
| jgriffith | avishay: nahh | 16:02 |
| guitarzan | all of them? | 16:02 |
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| jgriffith | Ok... so it was like 15 at one point | 16:02 |
| asselin | hi | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | 15! | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | Now... how many landed in J1? | 16:03 |
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| rushiagr | 1? | 16:03 |
| mtanino | 2? | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | hint.. rhymes with hero | 16:03 |
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| kmartin | 3 | 16:03 |
| jungleboyj | Zero. | 16:03 |
| avishay | shmero? | 16:03 |
| avishay | damn | 16:03 |
| xyang1 | 0 | 16:03 |
| zhithuang | :) | 16:03 |
| rushiagr | :/ | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | VERY VERY bad :( | 16:03 |
| jgriffith | Soo..... | 16:03 |
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| jgriffith | https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/juno-2 | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | Here we are a couple weeks out from J2 | 16:04 |
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| stevemac | hi john | 16:04 |
| stevemac | hi guys | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | 16 BP's targetted | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | and a bunch of them in "unknown" status | 16:04 |
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| xyang1 | we have 5 targeting J-2 | 16:04 |
| xyang1 | not listed there | 16:04 |
| jgriffith | we have a problem here | 16:04 |
| xyang1 | 4 drivers and CG | 16:04 |
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| jgriffith | xyang1: that makes the problem worse! | 16:04 |
| mtanino | I have one BP. | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | My point here is.... | 16:05 |
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| xyang1 | I added J-2, but removed by ttx | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I will get some updates to mine out there. | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: yes, and your code is up "thanks" | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: thanks | 16:05 |
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| xyang1 | jgriffith: can you target them? | 16:05 |
| jgriffith | I need everyone to please please update what you've signed up to work on | 16:05 |
| ttx | jgriffith needs to set a priority for it to stick to the milestone | 16:05 |
| avishay | ttx is everywhere :) | 16:06 |
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| jgriffith | xyang1: I'll get to yours, but they're on the bottom of my list | 16:06 |
| rushiagr | I can see some drivers regularly getting targetted to next release, as the progress on them is slow. We can't do anything with them, can we? | 16:06 |
| ttx | avishay: say three times my name and I appear | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | harlowja_away: when you come back... read my comments above | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: you're on the hook | 16:06 |
| anteaya | o/ | 16:06 |
| avishay | ttx: :) | 16:06 |
| jgriffith | today please ;) | 16:06 |
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| stevemac | jgriffith: we have 3 bp's. how do we get them in. | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: Indeed. | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: do you know anything about netapps refactor from Alex? | 16:07 |
| avishay | jgriffith: so what do you think the problem is? lack of code coming in, or lack of reviews, reviews effort not focused? | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | stevemac: hold on... I'll get to that next | 16:07 |
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| rushiagr | jgriffith: no. Not with netapp since more than a year.. | 16:07 |
| jgriffith | rushiagr: oops... sorry I forgot | 16:07 |
| rushiagr | jgriffith: np | 16:08 |
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| stevemac | jgriffith: ok. thanks | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | If you sign up for something, please update | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | and please let me know if your plans have changed and you're not going to be working onit | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | sadly many of the folks these days aren't on IRC or attending meetings which makes it difficutl | 16:08 |
| jgriffith | difficult | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | but a warning... | 16:09 |
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| jgriffith | I'm going to start punting BP's that don't seem to be making any progress or that people don't update me on | 16:09 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | I'm going to start doing a weekly house cleaning | 16:09 |
| tbarron | jgriffith: netapp in US has mandatory vacation :-) this week | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | so if you really care about your BP you need to either make progress or communicate as to whyyou're not | 16:09 |
| jgriffith | tbarron: how nice for them | 16:10 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | are all these BPs reviewed? | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | OpenStack is global and doesn't take vacation | 16:10 |
| xyang1 | jgriffith: should I ping you after the meeting about our BPs? | 16:10 |
| tbarron | jgriffith: I'm new to netapp openstack and am lurking :-) | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | just sayin :) | 16:10 |
| stevemac | tbarron: good for you guys | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: sure... but I'm on those don't worry | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | Ok | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | That's might rant for the morning | 16:10 |
| jgriffith | and I'll stop whining now :) | 16:10 |
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| jgriffith | forewarning | 16:11 |
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| xyang1 | jgriffith: thanks | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | I'm going to turn in to a bit of a jerk in the coming weeks | 16:11 |
| * jungleboyj is on vacation right now. :-) | 16:11 | |
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| jgriffith | Ok... now back to our regularly scheduled program | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | # topic batching code cleanup | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | #topic batching code cleanup | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "batching code cleanup (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:11 | |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | John, do we need to do something special for BP for new/updated drivers? | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: you're up | 16:11 |
| jgriffith | Arkady_Kanevsky: nope, all I need for those is a BP | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | Ok, so my point is simple, we keep getting lots of mechanical code cleanups | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | I'll get around to priortizing etc | 16:12 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | +1 | 16:12 |
| jgriffith | submit your patch | 16:12 |
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| jgriffith | DuncanT: I like the idea | 16:12 |
| DuncanT | Not without value, but they cause merge conflicts for actual features and make those far harder than they are | 16:12 |
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| DuncanT | I'm wondering if there's some tag or something we can add to make it easy to find these again at merge time? | 16:13 |
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| anteaya | if you all use the same topic you can do a gerrit search on it | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: we could surely create a tag | 16:13 |
| anteaya | code-cleanup might be one | 16:13 |
| jgriffith | maybe something more descriptive and one level deeper | 16:14 |
| anteaya | as core you can change the topic of those two patches, I believe | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | pep8-hacking-fixes | 16:14 |
| jgriffith | py3-updates | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | If we can change the topic, then we're golden | 16:14 |
| anteaya | then you can find both with one query | 16:14 |
| DuncanT | Anybody not like the idea? | 16:14 |
| anteaya | I *think* cores can change topics | 16:14 |
| anteaya | let me know if I'm wrong | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | We can sort the mechanic out of this meeting, I jsut want to know if anybody hates it? | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | If I can I don't know how | 16:15 |
| joa | nope, sounds fine. | 16:15 |
| avishay | sounds ok to me | 16:15 |
| asselin | sounds good | 16:15 |
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| anteaya | jgriffith: we can try after the meeting to see | 16:15 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I think we have concensus | 16:15 |
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| jgriffith | anteaya: cool | 16:15 |
| DuncanT | Ok, sold. I'll put a note on the mailing list, sort out the details and we can start batching | 16:16 |
| DuncanT | I'm done | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: awesome! Nice work | 16:16 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I am ok with the plan. | 16:16 |
| thingee | jgriffith, anteaya: "cherry-pick to" button I think would do what you want | 16:16 |
| jgriffith | #topic 3'rd party ci naming | 16:16 |
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| jgriffith | asselin: you're on deck | 16:16 |
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| anteaya | no I don't think cherry pick is it, just topic changes should work | 16:16 |
| asselin | so I posted a message on the ml: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-July/039103.html | 16:16 |
| anteaya | not changing patch or parents | 16:16 |
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| asselin | it's a proposal to have a dedicated ci system for each vendor to do cinder-mandated tests. | 16:17 |
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| asselin | as a way to isolate them from other unofficial tests | 16:17 |
| DuncanT | asselin: Some vendors will need multiple, since teams can be totally disjoin between products. Other than that, makes sense to me | 16:18 |
| asselin | so that reviewers can quickly know what the +1 and -2 means | 16:18 |
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| joa | but we're not the only project which might require "official" tests right ? | 16:18 |
| asselin | DuncanT, yes they would need multiple | 16:18 |
| xyang1 | we have 4 | 16:18 |
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| xyang1 | emc-vnx-ci, emc-vmax-ci, emc-vipr-ci, emc-xio-ci | 16:18 |
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| asselin | ok I see...4 vender-cinder-ci accounts | 16:18 |
| asselin | b/c they're 4 different teams | 16:19 |
| joa | Company-[Team or product-]ci ? | 16:19 |
| jgriffith | honestly I'd sort of like to go back to my original proposal for all of this that I made back at the summit... but I'll bight my tongue :) | 16:19 |
| DuncanT | asselin: Yes | 16:19 |
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| jungleboyj | asselin: So, this is just proposing individual accounts for each driver? | 16:19 |
| xyang1 | I got the names from anteaya | 16:19 |
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| anteaya | yes you did | 16:19 |
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| jgriffith | jungleboyj: please no :) | 16:19 |
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| jungleboyj | I.E. ibm-storwize_svc-ci | 16:20 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: ? | 16:20 |
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| asselin | so we'll have 1 ci account review per driver? | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: that's been my big fear in all of this | 16:20 |
| joa | didnt we want to avoid that ? | 16:20 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: It is proposing to have 'cidner' int eh name of any account that does mandated ci, and not in the name of any account that doesn't, I think | 16:20 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: so here's my understanding | 16:20 |
| xyang1 | asselin: the reason we have 4 is because we need 4 CI systems to test 4 drivers | 16:21 |
| asselin | my proposal was to have 1 per vendor. | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT: Oh, ok. | 16:21 |
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| jgriffith | There are vendors that have Cinder related ci systems as well as Neturon or Nova | 16:21 |
| asselin | xyang1, why is that? | 16:21 |
| xyang1 | asselin: we plan on consolidate them after Juno, long term plan | 16:21 |
| joa | DuncanT: yeah but what if I want an account that will do the testing for every openstack project I contributed a 3rd-party to ? | 16:21 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | it will be tryicky for 1 per vendor with completely different prodcuts | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | In addition there are vendors w/multiple drivers in Cinder (and others) | 16:21 |
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| xyang1 | asselin: we don't have one place that can test all | 16:21 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | Can we have one per product instead? | 16:21 |
| jungleboyj | asselin: So, we upload all our results through one account then. | 16:21 |
| jgriffith | the goal is an efficient and compact way to have accounts that represent a ci system or systems | 16:22 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | thinl of gluster and ceph both udner RH now. | 16:22 |
| anteaya | jgriffith: agreed | 16:22 |
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| e0ne | asselin: what about case when not vendor want to create ci for a driver? | 16:22 |
| eharney | jungleboyj: then one broken CI job gets everyone's at that company turned off | 16:22 |
| jgriffith | without having a seperate account/system for every driver in a project for those with more than one | 16:22 |
| xyang1 | asselin: drivers are developed in 4 BU's | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | anteaya: FYI, we are waiting for our account to get approved. We are close to having storwize results uploadable if we can get the account approved. | 16:22 |
| joa | anteaya, jgriffith: +1 :) | 16:22 |
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| jungleboyj | eharney: That sounds bad. | 16:22 |
| asselin | ok, then are we all ok to have one ci account/review per driver? | 16:22 |
| xyang1 | our ports were opened on Sunday | 16:22 |
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| anteaya | jungleboyj: I thought ibm-storwize-ci got createed | 16:23 |
| xyang1 | waiting for web server to setup | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | asselin: wait... | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | asselin: are the seperate independent systems? | 16:23 |
| asselin | I'd like all of us to be consistent | 16:23 |
| jungleboyj | anteaya: Did it? I will follow up. Been on vacation this week. | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | s/the/they/ | 16:23 |
| Arkady_Kanevsky | asselin proposal +1 (one per driver) | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | asselin: are they? | 16:23 |
| anteaya | jungleboyj: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2014-July/001470.html | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | IMO that's what determines that | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | if you have seperate CI's then yes, seperate accounts | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | if you share a single CI then one account IMO | 16:24 |
| asselin | jgriffith, don't understand your question | 16:24 |
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| jgriffith | asselin: You stated, seperate accounts for each driver | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | asselin: I asked... are you implementing independent CI systems for each driver? | 16:24 |
| asselin | yes, in that case we'll setup 4 accounts and 4 ci systems, one for each of our drivers | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | asselin: fine by me | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | I hate it but whatever | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:25 |
| asselin | and the expectation is that everyone will do the same so we're all consistent | 16:25 |
| avishay | jgriffith: you have one in any case right? :) | 16:25 |
| anteaya | asselin: your expectation | 16:25 |
| xyang1 | asselin: you have different CI systems for iSCSI and FC as well? | 16:25 |
| joa | everyone ? like every 2rd-party ? | 16:25 |
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| joa | 3rd* | 16:25 |
| anteaya | noone in third party does the same as anyone else | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: unfortunatly soon I'll have 3 | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | but regardless | 16:25 |
| avishay | :/ | 16:25 |
| eharney | can someone please back up a little bit and explain the actual issue the consistency rules are trying to solve/prevent? or did i miss something? | 16:26 |
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| asselin | xyang1, good question....not sure right now... | 16:26 |
| e0ne | asselin: what about something like 'nonvendorcompany-cinder-ci'? | 16:26 |
| eharney | i like consistency but i'm not exactly sure what the goal is here | 16:26 |
| thingee | jgriffith: three? | 16:26 |
| avishay | does it really matter? | 16:26 |
| joa | eharney: well.. The thing is; for one project, we'd love to get only one report for all the drivers of one 3rd-party provider. | 16:26 |
| joa | eharney: but the thing is, it does not necessarily match the needs/way of working of some big companies | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | I say we punt on this whole thing and go back to my idea of a dashboard | 16:27 |
| eharney | joa: why? Ceph and Gluster reports should be combined? | 16:27 |
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| jgriffith | independent of OpenStack CI | 16:27 |
| asselin | e0ne, no that won't be allowed if we do one per driver | 16:27 |
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| e0ne | :( | 16:27 |
| xyang1 | asselin: do you know how to mark the results as (non voting)? | 16:27 |
| anteaya | jgriffith: I think we are jamming together two things | 16:27 |
| anteaya | 1) naming, which has to scale | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: yeah.. there are a ton of side topics going here | 16:27 |
| anteaya | 2) viewing and interpreting results, which needs to be aggregated | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | 2 minutes remain for this topic | 16:28 |
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| anteaya | eharney: the root of the issue is there are a lot of ci accounts: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/automated-gerrit-account-naming-format | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: agreed | 16:28 |
| anteaya | eharney: and we are getting more all the time | 16:28 |
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| anteaya | eharney: we need a format to name them so that naming scales | 16:28 |
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| jgriffith | anteaya: however my proposal was and is, it's cinder owned/specific for Cinder which helps with the scale problem | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: makes naming easier | 16:29 |
| anteaya | eharney: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101013/ is one proposal: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101013/ | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: and cuts the beuracracy of picking a name | 16:29 |
| joa | jgriffith: this would mean one account for cinder-specific CI and at least another account for others CI ? | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | because I get to just say "here's what it is" and move on | 16:29 |
| anteaya | except for those companies that want to test additional things | 16:29 |
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| e0ne | asselin: some openstack providers want to test cinder with back-end for special cases. e.g. Mirantis is interesting in integrateind 3rd party ci for cinder+ceph | 16:29 |
| anteaya | or companies where more than one division tests cinder | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | joa: no, that's not really the intent necessarily | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | but everybody is running off on tangents | 16:30 |
| asselin | seems we need to pick the lowest common denominator: one per driver | 16:30 |
| joa | jgriffith: okay | 16:30 |
| joa | if I could I'd love to only have one acc | 16:30 |
| anteaya | me too | 16:30 |
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| asselin | I think we can aggregate any driver vairants; e.g. iscsi & fc in a since account | 16:30 |
| anteaya | I would love to have only one account per vendor | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | why are we making this so difficult? | 16:30 |
| asselin | since/single | 16:30 |
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| jgriffith | we don't have to be perfect | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | it doesn't have to be "forever" | 16:30 |
| anteaya | jgriffith: because there is an assumption that everyone testing cinder wants to do it the same way | 16:30 |
| anteaya | well it kind of does, regarding naming | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | anteaya: you're completely missing the point | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | I'm not arguing against consistency | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | everybody involved here has spent more time arguing about "names" than actually building a CI system | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | One account per vendor is a nice to have but doesn't match the realities of some vendors in term s of business units etc | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | which is ridiculous | 16:31 |
| thingee | jgriffith: +1 | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: My proposal is you have the option | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | If you can do one account per vendor AWESOME | 16:32 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: +10k | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | if you can and have to do per dirver then frikin do it | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | but please stop arguing about it and wasting time | 16:32 |
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| jungleboyj | jgriffith: +2 | 16:32 |
| xyang1 | jgriffith: +1. I'd rather focusing on getting CI to work end-to-end, rather than spend time changing account names | 16:32 |
| anteaya | but what is the solution? | 16:32 |
| stevemac | agree with jgriffith. | 16:32 |
| joa | +1 | 16:32 |
| avishay | +30294013982481 | 16:32 |
| anteaya | so that another hp department can test cinder | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: that's not my problem | 16:32 |
| joa | Company-[Team or product-]ci ? Sounds good to me. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | errr | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | avishay: sorry | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | anteaya: For now? Call it HP2 for all it matters | 16:33 |
| avishay | :) | 16:33 |
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| anteaya | DuncanT: can you suggest that in the naming patch | 16:33 |
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| stevemac | yes, companies working on openstack come in all shapes and sizes | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | anteaya: Or HP-some-team-name | 16:33 |
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| anteaya | DuncanT: right | 16:33 |
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| anteaya | that is what we are suggesting now | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | times up | 16:33 |
| eharney | don't these all show in Gerrit with a "pretty name" anyway? | 16:33 |
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| anteaya | so infra isn't upsetting vendors | 16:33 |
| joa | eharney: the pretty name is part of the naming scheme | 16:33 |
| asselin | ok, thanks. conclusion: {company}-{team or driver}-ci | 16:34 |
| e0ne | Duncan: agree with you | 16:34 |
| * eharney hides | 16:34 | |
| anteaya | eharney: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/automated-gerrit-account-naming-format | 16:34 |
| asselin | objections? | 16:34 |
| joa | eharney: some names contain Jenkins and confuse devs and reviewers | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | #topic LVM support VG on shared storage | 16:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "LVM support VG on shared storage (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:34 | |
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| jgriffith | mtanino: you around? | 16:34 |
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| mtanino | o. | 16:34 |
| mtanino | Hi | 16:34 |
| joa | asselin: agreed :) | 16:34 |
| mtanino | I had some discussion about my proposed driver at openstack-dev with avishay and deepakcs. | 16:34 |
| mtanino | And they recommended me to discuss the driver at the meeting. So I come here today. | 16:34 |
| e0ne | asselin: great! | 16:34 |
| avishay | asselin: i don't think that's what jgriffith said... | 16:34 |
| mtanino | I would like to have a quick discussion about benefits, comparison to other drivers, performance. | 16:34 |
| avishay | asselin: but please take it offline | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you're right it's not but I've moved on :) | 16:34 |
| rushiagr | avishay: asselin: jgriffith said time's up :) | 16:34 |
| mtanino | can I move forward? | 16:35 |
| avishay | mtanino: please present your proposal | 16:35 |
| mtanino | Could you see P8-P14 of this document? | 16:35 |
| mtanino | https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/0/08/Cinder-Support_LVM_on_a_sharedLU.pdf | 16:35 |
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| mtanino | There are benefits, comparison to other drivers, performance. | 16:35 |
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| flip214 | mtanino: how do you handle locking, ie. that only one host does create a snapshot or LV at one time? | 16:36 |
| mtanino | I would like to know these benefits are make sense for cinder driver. | 16:36 |
| flip214 | CLVM is what I'm getting at. | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | flip214: +1 | 16:36 |
| mtanino | Only cinder node can create, delete, snapshot to the VG | 16:36 |
| flip214 | (cluster-LVM, with locking across the cluster) | 16:36 |
| mtanino | compute node can only attach a volume to an instance. | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: it's not a clustered LVM really though | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | err... sorry, flip214 ^^ | 16:37 |
| DuncanT | If only the one host running cinder-volume can do the actions, do you need locking? | 16:37 |
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| DuncanT | I don't think you do | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | flip214: the VG only exists on one device | 16:37 |
| flip214 | well, we have similar things with customers who run LVM on top of DRBD, eg. for XEN | 16:37 |
| avishay | my feeling is that this is a nice idea in theory, but in practice customer's won't want to turn their expensive feature-rich storage into a JBOD that is managed by LVM | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | flip214: completely different approach | 16:37 |
| flip214 | they all want to run dual-primary | 16:37 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: I beleive you're correct | 16:38 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: ie no need for locking | 16:38 |
| * joa thinks it reminds him of what he's working on.. | 16:38 | |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: it just *works* the same as LVM today | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | avishay: You can use this on top of cheaper, less feature rich arrays too | 16:38 |
| flip214 | is there a need for thin pool LV? | 16:38 |
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| jgriffith | cinder node owns it, controls it etc | 16:38 |
| mtanino | avishay: So I do not want to replace vendor driver. Use both vendor driver and LVM driver case by case basis. | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | flip214: It supports thin or thick pretty much for free.... | 16:38 |
| flip214 | thin LV might mean that the compute nodes write to the (thin) metadata | 16:38 |
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| flip214 | so syncronization and locking issues *might* arise. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | flip214: again,works the same we the cinder LVM driver does | 16:39 |
| DuncanT | flip214: Ah, I see your point, and agree | 16:39 |
| flip214 | I'm not against this proposal. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | flip214: only difference is you share it across multiple compute nodes | 16:39 |
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| flip214 | I just want to put a word of caution into the discussion | 16:39 |
| avishay | mtanino: does this require changes in Cinder other than the driver? | 16:39 |
| joa | mtanino: so it does come on top of other (vendor?) drivers ? | 16:39 |
| mtanino | flip214: we do not need Thinpool now | 16:39 |
| flip214 | mtanino: we do, if there should be efficient snapshots. | 16:39 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: I'd like to understand what the benefit is? | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | avishay: Requires a nova connector change too, but I'd like to see that renamed and put in anyway for personal reasons | 16:40 |
| flip214 | jgriffith: performance | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: I don't see the advantage of this over what we do already | 16:40 |
| eharney | benefit is you don't use iSCSI to get from the same node back to itself | 16:40 |
| flip214 | because one indirection via iscsi is not needed anymore | 16:40 |
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| jgriffith | flip214: nahh... don't think so | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | eharney: don't know what you mean by that | 16:40 |
| flip214 | the thick LVM snapshots are *really* bad if you've got more than 1 on a LV | 16:40 |
| jgriffith | flip214: yes we are painfully aware :) | 16:41 |
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| eharney | it's direct block device attach from LVM<->VM, not LVM<->iSCSI<->iSCSI<->VM | 16:41 |
| eharney | right? | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | eharney: no | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | the device the VG sits on is still an external san attached device | 16:41 |
| jgriffith | whether that be iscsi or FC | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | you're just mapping/attaching it to all of the compute nodes | 16:41 |
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| jgriffith | and accessing LVM directly | 16:42 |
| flip214 | jgriffith: so thin pool LVs are better. I wouldn't want to use them with a shared VG approach, though. | 16:42 |
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| eharney | which is what i said | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | eharney: basicly dumping the abstraction | 16:42 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: But now the compute nodes talk directly to the SAN, not funneled through a linux node | 16:42 |
| avishay | i think this is STORAGE<->iSCSI<->LVM<->VM, right? | 16:42 |
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| jgriffith | eharney: ^^ | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | what avishay said | 16:42 |
| mtanino | jgriffith: I think the one of benefit is "Reduce hardware based storage workload by offloading the workload to software based volume operation. | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | you left out the storage<->iscsi piece which is nice magic | 16:42 |
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| flip214 | it should work if a thin pool is created for every (cinder volume + snapshots) | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: I don't follow | 16:43 |
| mtanino | jgriffith:hmm.. | 16:43 |
| jungleboyj | mtanino: Makes sense. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | eharney: you see why I disagreed? | 16:43 |
| flip214 | then only one (compute) node accesses a thin pool at the same time | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | eharney: I don't understand the benefit as it doesn't change datapath | 16:43 |
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| eharney | jgriffith: yes, i missed a step in the doc i was looking at | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | The way I interpretted this was just that instead of attaching a volume to the compute node | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | you're attaching the entire VG | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | doesn't change how data is transferred for the most part | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | except for caching/buffering | 16:44 |
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| jgriffith | just breaks the abstraction and creates yet another layer | 16:45 |
| avishay | this feels like a research project rather than something customers will want to use. on the one hand i'd want to see real customer demand for this, but on the other hand we don't require that for other drivers... don't know | 16:45 |
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| eharney | looks like it removes a layer to me... | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | My only argument at this point is it's a LOT of code and work and I don't know what benefit? | 16:45 |
| avishay | eharney: it adds LVM to the existing stack | 16:46 |
| eharney | i'll have to think on this some more | 16:46 |
| hemna | morning | 16:46 |
| avishay | jgriffith: +8 | 16:46 |
| eharney | i'm clearly missing something | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | Other than you can use any SAN device and don't need a driver in OpenStack for it | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | which is kind of a win :) | 16:46 |
| mtanino | jgriffith: Thank you for your comment. | 16:46 |
| thingee | mtanino: do you have any data to back the performance you're claiming? | 16:46 |
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| avishay | jgriffith: but you're not really using the SAN, you're turning it into a JBOD | 16:46 |
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| jgriffith | avishay: yeah... that's the beauty of it | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | avishay: you use any san device you want | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | avishay: treat it like a jbod | 16:47 |
| avishay | jgriffith: not taking advantage of storage's QoS, snapshots, etc. might as well just buy servers with disks. | 16:47 |
| mtanino | thingee: I have mesuared performance in P13 and P14 | 16:47 |
| hemna | there is nothing preventing you today from doing this | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | avishay: even better treat a volume on it like a jbod | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | hemna: there's a TON of things preventing it | 16:47 |
| * thingee checks p14 | 16:47 | |
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| hemna | with your backend. create a massive volume and attach it to the cinder node and create a VG for it. done. | 16:47 |
| mtanino | thingee: https://wiki.openstack.org/w/images/0/08/Cinder-Support_LVM_on_a_sharedLU.pdf | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | hemna: but I suspect you're thinking of doing it the exiting LVM way | 16:47 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: yeah, that's what I thought you might be getting at | 16:48 |
| hemna | I'm not sure I see a reason for a driver to do this | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | hemna: he wants to take it one level deeper and put the entire VG on every compute node | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | access LVM directly on the compute node | 16:48 |
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| joa | sounds like something I discussed with DuncanT | 16:48 |
| hemna | ugh | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: can I ask two questions: | 16:49 |
| mtanino | jgriffith: Yes. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: one of them is actually thingee 's question | 16:49 |
| mtanino | please | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | 1. Performance testing/data results | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | including details of comparison | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | 2. What's the real motivation here? | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | Is this realy a performance thing... or is it a way to not have to have specific drivers for san devices? | 16:50 |
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| mtanino | jgriffith: I measured performace between LVMiScSI, SharedLVM, ras FC at P13, P14 | 16:50 |
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| mtanino | raw FC volume, sorry | 16:50 |
| hemna | I can't imagine the performance of this would be better than a direct iSCSI/FC attached block device to the compute node. | 16:50 |
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| jgriffith | mtanino: well... you need more details (or I do) | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: like how were these things configured | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | did you use OpenStack | 16:51 |
| thingee | single vm, single volume | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | did you use the same backign device | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | etc etc | 16:51 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: It isn't better than that, it *is* better than a fat lun attached to the head node then re-exported | 16:51 |
| mtanino | jgriffith: yes. I will try to arrange your requirement and will post openstack-dev. | 16:51 |
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| avishay | mtanino: the results are a bit hard to believe...adding an extra layer has no effect on latency? is there extra caching that may effect correctness? what happens with performance of a cloned volume (i.e., test LVM snaps vs your controller's snaps) | 16:51 |
| thingee | how do things look with 8 vms, each with their own volume, doing reads/writes | 16:51 |
| hemna | avishay, +1 | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: so I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea | 16:52 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: And I can point you to somebody running 3par like that now, because they want many tiny volumes and 3par runs out too fast | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | mtanino: but I think there needs to be some clarity in the motivation and benefits | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | as well as costs | 16:52 |
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| jgriffith | There are drawbacks to this | 16:52 |
| guitarzan | mtanino: specifics may give your critics a bit more insight :) | 16:52 |
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| mtanino | jgriffith: I understand | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: +1 | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: same with equalogic | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: and a bunch of people that have backend devices that have no cinder drivers | 16:53 |
| hemna | DuncanT, yah I wouldn't deploy in that configuration because it's obviously going to be slow | 16:53 |
| tsekiyama | avishay: It's actually removing a layer, software iSCSI daemon (tgtd) running on cinder-volume node. | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: but there are some risks/problems with the double iscsi-hop as I call it | 16:53 |
| hemna | but everyone has their reasons I suppose | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Better than 'can't use 80% of my capacity' for this custoemr at least | 16:53 |
| thingee | 7 MIN WARNING | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | hemna: DuncanT avishay keep in mind their focus here is FC | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | not iSCSI | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | thingee: thanks! | 16:54 |
| harlowja | i have been summoned? | 16:54 |
| avishay | tsekiyama: instead of VM-FC-Storage you have VM-LVM-FC-Storage, no? | 16:54 |
| mtanino | Thank you so many comments. | 16:54 |
| thingee | harlowja: update your bps | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | oh.. yeah, this is the last topic anyway :) | 16:54 |
| hemna | avishay, yup | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: what thingee siad | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | harlowja: and... implement them :) | 16:54 |
| harlowja | done | 16:54 |
| harlowja | wish granted | 16:54 |
| avishay | harlowja: blueprints, not beats-per-second | 16:54 |
| thingee | that was easy | 16:54 |
| jgriffith | avishay: LOL | 16:55 |
| jungleboyj | avishay: Crank up the BPMs | 16:55 |
| thingee | jgriffith: alright, so what are we leaving mtanino with? | 16:55 |
| harlowja | my modem not fast enough for u thingee ? | 16:55 |
| hemna | I dunno, I think if this is simply to overcome a missing cinder volume driver for an FC backend, then spend the effort writing that instead. | 16:55 |
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| harlowja | 14.4kbps ftw | 16:55 |
| joa | btw about the bps, Should I refer my bp somewhere to improve visibility, or should I leave to you guys to review it whenever you have time ? | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | hemna: perhaps | 16:56 |
| mtanino | thingee: please move next item | 16:56 |
| flip214 | the part that this proposal is addressing is to *decrease* latency, by removing the iscsi indirection. | 16:56 |
| joa | (came a bit late in the first topic) | 16:56 |
| hemna | putting LVM between the array and the VM is not going to perform the same. | 16:56 |
| jgriffith | hemna: or attach it to the cinder node and use what we have | 16:56 |
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| avishay | flip214: please explain | 16:56 |
| tsekiyama | avishay: ah, I mean when compared to existing iSCSI-LVM driver | 16:56 |
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| flip214 | avishay: before: compute => iscsi => cinder => FC => storage | 16:57 |
| thingee | mtanino: that's the last item | 16:57 |
| flip214 | after: compute => FC => storage | 16:57 |
| avishay | flip214: no... | 16:57 |
| thingee | and I want to have an idea we can leave you with, because this driver keeps coming up | 16:57 |
| mtanino | flip214: Yes. It's a correct. latency is decreasing compared to LVMiSCSi | 16:57 |
| flip214 | and splitting up the storage into parts via LVM | 16:57 |
| avishay | flip214: before compute->FC->storage, after compute->LVM->FC->Storage | 16:57 |
| jgriffith | flip214: I don't think so | 16:57 |
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| jgriffith | flip214: yeah... what avishay pointed out | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | avishay: no, they're comparing to exporting to cinder volume with cinder lvm anyway | 16:57 |
| hemna | avishay, yes | 16:57 |
| avishay | the interesting comparison is not LVM iSCSI, it's a regular FC driver | 16:57 |
| guitarzan | not directly to storage | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | avishay: that's not interesting at all, it's obviously going to be worse | 16:58 |
| jgriffith | flip214: or.... storage--->FC-->cinder-node--->iscsi--->compute | 16:58 |
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| avishay | guitarzan: right, so what's the benefit? is anyone deploying the other way? does it even work? | 16:58 |
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| hemna | wouldn't you need to have something cinder like on the compute host to divy up the LVM VG to the VMs? | 16:58 |
| guitarzan | avishay: you're just getting back to the same "write a cinder driver" answer | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | hemna: nope | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | which is a fine viewpoint I suppose | 16:59 |
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| hemna | so it's reimplementing the scheduler/manager/LVM driver on the compute host? | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | avishay: One advantage is that it allows you to exceed SAN limits on number of volumes / snaps, and that *is* a real problem for some people | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | hemna: no? | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | hemna: LVM let's you do some pretty neat stuff that way | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | hemna: no | 16:59 |
| flip214 | look at page 10 (11), "4. Comparison of Proposed LVM volume driver | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | aye aye aye | 16:59 |
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| hemna | ok, maybe I don't get that part then | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | everybody talks, but nobody listens | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | :( | 16:59 |
| guitarzan | hemna: they have one c-vol managing lvm for the entire vg | 17:00 |
| thingee | times up | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | thanks everybody | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | good meeting | 17:00 |
| anteaya | thanks | 17:00 |
| mtanino | thank you. | 17:00 |
| flip214 | thanks | 17:00 |
| jgriffith | #endmeeting cinder | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| jungleboyj | Thanks. | 17:00 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 2 17:00:22 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-07-02-16.01.html | 17:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-07-02-16.01.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-07-02-16.01.log.html | 17:00 |
| hemna | ok, so they have to have cinder on the compute node running c-vol then to divy up the VG. I thought that's what I asked ? | 17:00 |
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| tjones | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 2 17:01:10 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:01 | |
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| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:01 |
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| tjones | hi who's here today? | 17:01 |
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| KanagarajM | I am in :-) | 17:01 |
| garyk | hi | 17:01 |
| kirankv | hi | 17:01 |
| rgerganov | hi | 17:01 |
| arnaud | o/ | 17:01 |
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| mdbooth | hi | 17:02 |
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| tjones | hi guys - lets get starting with approved BP | 17:02 |
| tjones | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack?searchtext=vmware | 17:02 |
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| tjones | mdbooth: vuil: lets start with refactor as usual | 17:02 |
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| KanagarajM | I am having two blue prints to discuss 1> mutibacked: https://review.openstack.org/103054 and 2> NFS glance datastore: https://review.openstack.org/104211 | 17:03 |
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| vuil | o/ just got in | 17:03 |
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| tjones | KanagarajM: when we get to unapproved BP we can discuss those | 17:03 |
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| mdbooth | So, Vui's phase 2 patches got in :) | 17:04 |
| vuil | I added a few more patches before to cleanup ds_util, those are farely small ones | 17:04 |
| vuil | fairly | 17:04 |
| tjones | hurrah! | 17:04 |
| KanagarajM | tjones: thanks | 17:04 |
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| vuil | 87002 is being broken up further by mdbooth. | 17:04 |
| mdbooth | Next in the list was some more from vui and a big one by hartsocks | 17:04 |
| vuil | I am working on the same for the phase 3 stuff that follows. | 17:04 |
| mdbooth | I've split up the big one as you've probably seen | 17:04 |
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| mdbooth | Initial comments from garyk and rgerganov | 17:05 |
| tjones | the BP has a TON of patches. mdbooth can you share the link to the bottom patch? | 17:05 |
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| vuil | I am going to look them over today. | 17:05 |
| tjones | bottom == 1st to review in the series | 17:05 |
| mdbooth | I've only looked at comments from the first 2 in the series, but it's predictably going to require updates | 17:05 |
| rgerganov | are we going to abandon https://review.openstack.org/#/c/87002/ ? | 17:05 |
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| vuil | and just update https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/vmware-subteam-juno | 17:05 |
| mdbooth | rgerganov: I think we should, yes | 17:05 |
| vuil | that seems to be the idea | 17:06 |
| tjones | vuil: yes - i like having the updated list there | 17:06 |
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| mdbooth | I think garyk said some of my patches he reviewed conflict with vuil's refactor patches | 17:06 |
| mdbooth | I haven't got to that bit yet, but it wouldn't surprise me at all | 17:06 |
| tjones | ugh | 17:06 |
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| mdbooth | My patch series has to begin with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102224/ | 17:07 |
| garyk | mdbooth: yes, they do. i think that it was the later ones with the datstore changes | 17:07 |
| rgerganov | I have reviewed Vui's patches for ds_util and they are all good stuff | 17:07 |
| mdbooth | Because that conflicts with the refactor significantly | 17:07 |
| mdbooth | vuil: I'm happy to rebase on top of your patches | 17:07 |
| mdbooth | But could you please rebase on top of ^^^? | 17:07 |
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| vuil | mdbooth: I understand that was the idea too :-) | 17:07 |
| tjones | i'll leave it to you two to sort out offline | 17:08 |
| mdbooth | That means my series can avoid conflict with both | 17:08 |
| vuil | mdbooth: yeah let's do that | 17:08 |
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| tjones | vuil: next we have oslo which i think you are also working on but blocked by phase 2 right? | 17:08 |
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| vuil | I think we are proceeding in parallel, whichever lands first, the other effort can pick it up. | 17:09 |
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| tjones | ok garyk - you have ephemeral and hot plug. any update? | 17:09 |
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| vuil | we held off oslo because there was no work that needed it that did not also need the refactoring, but there is some now | 17:10 |
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| garyk | tjones: hot plug - reviewed by rgerganov and mdbooth. i need to address some comments from matt | 17:11 |
| garyk | the ephemeral sypport will be placed on top of the image refactoring (that will wait a few weeks :() | 17:11 |
| tjones | ah ok | 17:11 |
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| garyk | the first 2 patches of the hot plug series are good to go and it would be a pity to wait another 6 months | 17:12 |
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| garyk | i'll address the comments tomorrow morning | 17:12 |
| * mdbooth found that catching johnthetubaguy in a good mood was very useful for getting reviews :) | 17:12 | |
| garyk | ok, i'm done on this topic :) | 17:12 |
| tjones | yes - lets reiterate that we need people to review those. thanks rgerganov and mdbooth for starting. then finally we have spbm, v3 diags, ova, and vsan. all importatnt to get in and all blocked by refactor. | 17:13 |
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| rgerganov | tjones: sadly spbm is still not approved | 17:13 |
| tjones | rgerganov: oops - i read the title and thought spbm. this one is for glance | 17:14 |
| mdbooth | rgerganov: Is there anything blocking it from a design pov? | 17:14 |
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| tjones | anything else on approved bp before we move on to unapproved? (like spbm) | 17:14 |
| garyk | rgerganov: i need to address some comments. they are real nits … | 17:14 |
| rgerganov | mdbooth: the spec that garyk wrote looks good to me | 17:14 |
| tjones | #topic BP under review | 17:15 |
| garyk | johnthetubaguy: has a few comments that need addressing | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "BP under review (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:15 | |
| tjones | (since we have already moved on) | 17:15 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:vmware,n,z | 17:15 |
| garyk | kinf of like la law "moving on douglass" | 17:15 |
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| tjones | i see spbm and storage opt (kirankv BP) still moving. kirankv anything needed for your BP? | 17:16 |
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| kirankv | yes reviews would help, had jay pipes +1 it | 17:16 |
| tjones | looks like you have addressed john's comments | 17:17 |
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| tjones | KanagarajM: i don't see your BP In the list of specs.... | 17:17 |
| KanagarajM | tjones: oh, not sure, could you please use this 1> mutibacked: https://review.openstack.org/103054 and 2> NFS glance | 17:18 |
| tjones | i think you need the word vmware in the title if it is vmware driver specific | 17:18 |
| KanagarajM | yes | 17:18 |
| tjones | otherwise no one on this team will see it :-) | 17:19 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103054/ | 17:19 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/104211 | 17:19 |
| KanagarajM | sure, i will add after the meeting, thanks. | 17:19 |
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| tjones | as the 1st word i think | 17:19 |
| rgerganov | the first one will mitigate the implications of dropping the support for multiple compute nodes | 17:20 |
| KanagarajM | yes, | 17:20 |
| garyk | yes, that in my opinion is very importnat | 17:20 |
| kirankv | rgerganov: yes | 17:20 |
| arnaud | KanagarajM, I am interested in the second one | 17:20 |
| kirankv | still the memory concerns remain | 17:21 |
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| rgerganov | kirankv: the 100+ MB footprint is on the VC or on nova-compute? | 17:21 |
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| KanagarajM | arnaud: i have d one the poc for that and we have seen good improvement on the VM creation total time, its reduced from 16 mins to 6 mins for 800 MB disk | 17:22 |
| kirankv | rgerganov: on the nova-compute | 17:22 |
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| rgerganov | kirankv: yeah, I guess this is because of the suds client mainly | 17:22 |
| arnaud | how long is takes to upload the image to glance KanagarajM? | 17:22 |
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| kirankv | rgerganov: yes its the suds client | 17:23 |
| KanagarajM | arnaud: uploading to glance i am not sure, i will get back to you the figure | 17:23 |
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| arnaud | KanagarajM, ok let's continue this offline. I am looking at the same kind of optimizations with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/84281/ | 17:24 |
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| KanagarajM | regarding the memory, yes, suds is consuming about 500-600 MB per vc connection, and usually nova-compute node will be of high end configuration and admin should be able to properly design the deployment model based on number clusters and node configuration | 17:25 |
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| KanagarajM | arnaud: sure, | 17:25 |
| tjones | ok lets give folks time to review these BP. KanagarajM please update the title so we can find them :-). | 17:26 |
| tjones | Any other BP needing discussion? | 17:26 |
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| KanagarajM | tjones: sure thanks. | 17:26 |
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| kirankv | tjones: its not vmware specific, it applies to any nova driver. | 17:27 |
| tjones | ok prob a good topic for -nova unless we have extra time later | 17:27 |
| tjones | anyone have bugs that are of concern? | 17:28 |
| * mdbooth reads back... | 17:28 | |
| mdbooth | 500-600MB! | 17:28 |
| mdbooth | KanagarajM: That's bad | 17:28 |
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| tjones | #topic open discussion | 17:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:28 | |
| tjones | mdbooth: ok lets spend the rest of the time talking about this and whatever other topics | 17:29 |
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| * mdbooth doesn't have any specific topics we haven't covered | 17:29 | |
| * mdbooth has been buried in refactor work this week | 17:29 | |
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| tjones | anyone else? im happy to end early if we are done | 17:30 |
| mdbooth | Has the iscsi thing moved? | 17:31 |
| * mdbooth has been distracted and hasn't followed it at all | 17:31 | |
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| tjones | arnaud: want to update us? | 17:31 |
| arnaud | tbh, last week was a glance issues week | 17:31 |
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| tjones | lol | 17:32 |
| arnaud | didn't have the time to update iscsi | 17:32 |
| arnaud | will get back to it soon hopefully | 17:32 |
| rgerganov | we can safely assume that every week is a nova issues week :) | 17:32 |
| tjones | every week is a refactor review week ;-) | 17:33 |
| rgerganov | tjones: that too :) | 17:33 |
| tjones | and don't forget to give garyk hot plug patches some love | 17:33 |
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| garyk | :) | 17:34 |
| garyk | maybe if i learn to dive like robben i'll get a few extra reviews | 17:34 |
| rgerganov | garyk: at least he doesn't bite | 17:35 |
| kirankv | rgerganov: agree :) | 17:35 |
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| tjones | ok i think we are done. thanks and have a nice week | 17:36 |
| mdbooth | Good night, all | 17:36 |
| rgerganov | bye | 17:36 |
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| tjones | #endmeeting | 17:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 2 17:36:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-07-02-17.01.html | 17:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-07-02-17.01.txt | 17:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-07-02-17.01.log.html | 17:36 |
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| milina | http://adf.ly/q1fx1 | 18:16 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 2 19:01:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:01 |
| notmyname | who's here for the swift meeting? | 19:01 |
| elambert | o/ | 19:01 |
| peluse_ | yo | 19:01 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 19:01 |
| cutforth | o/ | 19:01 |
| cschwede | o/ | 19:01 |
| *** Arkady_Kanevsky_ has left #openstack-meeting | 19:01 | |
| creiht | kinda | 19:01 |
| creiht | :) | 19:01 |
| creiht | I have to jet early | 19:01 |
| notmyname | creiht: back from vacation? | 19:01 |
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| creiht | yes | 19:01 |
| notmyname | cool | 19:02 |
| notmyname | ok, let's get started and see how long this takes :-) | 19:02 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:02 |
| notmyname | only 2 things on the agenda | 19:02 |
| notmyname | #topic swift 2.0 RC period | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "swift 2.0 RC period (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
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| goodes | o/ | 19:03 |
| notmyname | I'm working on getting two patches backported to RC1 so we can cut an RC2 | 19:03 |
| notmyname | small things that shouldn't invalidate a lot of current testing | 19:03 |
| notmyname | fighting with jenkins now, but I hope to have that soon | 19:03 |
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| notmyname | how' the rest of your testing going? | 19:03 |
| notmyname | creiht: ? peluse_: ? cschwede: ? | 19:04 |
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| creiht | still going | 19:04 |
| notmyname | great | 19:04 |
| notmyname | anything (major) found? | 19:04 |
| cschwede | not from my side | 19:04 |
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| peluse_ | not yet... about an hr left of testing | 19:04 |
| peluse_ | focused on ssync now | 19:04 |
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| cschwede | i mostly tried to break things, but i wasn’t very successful, and thats a good sign ;) | 19:05 |
| notmyname | we ran a comparison benchmark of 1.13.1 and 2.0 on peluse_'s avoton boxes. actually seems that 2.0 is slightly faster for some workloads. | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | cschwede: :-) | 19:05 |
| creiht | notmyname: I'm sure you will hear from us when we run into anything major :) | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | creiht: I'm sure I will :-) (and that's good) | 19:05 |
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| peluse_ | notmyname: that's interesting... cool | 19:05 |
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| notmyname | so the current plan is to get an rc2 today (please jenkins!) and then cut the final on monday morning | 19:05 |
| cschwede | notmyname: interesting, can you share any numbers? | 19:05 |
| peluse_ | anyone else doing/done rolling upgrade testing? | 19:06 |
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| cschwede | peluse_: me, but only with my dev vm, and everything worked for me | 19:06 |
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| peluse_ | cool, was curious about the comment I made in the other channel, having to restart memcached and whether that would be a normal part ofthe process anyway | 19:06 |
| notmyname | cschwede: not really yet, since there were some odd things separate from swift. like centos locking the cpu frequency lower or networking issues. mostly it's a "in general, the good numbers are slightly bigger" | 19:07 |
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| torgomatic | oh yeah, meeting :) | 19:07 |
| notmyname | peluse_: most prod clusters won't want to flush memcache because it would generally kill clusters (internal and external to swift) | 19:07 |
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| creiht | haha | 19:07 |
| notmyname | peluse_: but it's certainly an ops sort of thing that has to be accounted for | 19:08 |
| creiht | yeah we generally try to not do that :) | 19:08 |
| notmyname | creiht: make auth cry ;-) | 19:08 |
| peluse_ | notmyname: OK, I suppose a bunch of errors for things that don't exist in info (storage policy field in container) willeventually go away no their own then? | 19:08 |
| notmyname | any question on 2.0 or uncertainty about plans? | 19:08 |
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| notmyname | peluse_: right, those should be handled as replication gets to them and updates the schema | 19:09 |
| notmyname | ok, if no questions....moving on | 19:09 |
| peluse_ | not the DB, the cached info in memchached that you get from container_info() | 19:09 |
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| notmyname | peluse_: ah, yes. actually one of clay's patches addresses that | 19:10 |
| peluse_ | oh, cool | 19:10 |
| notmyname | (i think) | 19:10 |
| cschwede | peluse_: hmm, need to check that memcache thing, might be restarted in my vm together with swift services | 19:10 |
| peluse_ | i feel "validated" somehow :) | 19:10 |
| notmyname | peluse_: #topic gerrit review dashboard | 19:10 |
| notmyname | err | 19:10 |
| notmyname | peluse_: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102747/ | 19:10 |
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| * peluse_ looks | 19:11 | |
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| peluse_ | OK, I'll try it in my upgrade test w/o restart memcachd, thanks | 19:11 |
| notmyname | may be related to what you are seeing. if not, please follow it up :-) | 19:11 |
| peluse_ | will do | 19:12 |
| cschwede | wow, one line of code change, +302 of tests. nice :) | 19:12 |
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| notmyname | #topic gerrit review dashboard | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "gerrit review dashboard (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:12 | |
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| notmyname | so speaking of patches... | 19:12 |
| notmyname | new gerrti has more tools | 19:12 |
| notmyname | so I made http://bit.ly/1iVBigF | 19:12 |
| notmyname | #link http://bit.ly/1iVBigF | 19:12 |
| notmyname | (go on. click it. I dare you) | 19:12 |
| cschwede | this is great, like it! | 19:12 |
| peluse_ | ditto | 19:13 |
| notmyname | I hope it helps keep patches moving | 19:13 |
| mattoliverau | The daskboard is awesome and I like the new version that shows your reviews... nice work. | 19:13 |
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| portante | +1 | 19:13 |
| notmyname | sections are specs, your stuff, stuff needing approval (final +2), errored, old, open, with negative feedback, WIP, and finally EC | 19:13 |
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| clayg | ohai | 19:14 |
| mattoliverau | I wonder if a section of patches you haven't reviewed is in order.. I have a gerrit search for that. | 19:14 |
| notmyname | unless you're specifically trying to get EC moving forward, you should be able to start at the top and move down, I think | 19:14 |
| notmyname | the tool I used to build the long URL is https://github.com/stackforge/gerrit-dash-creator | 19:14 |
| notmyname | and I have a patch in gerrit to add the swift dashboard | 19:15 |
| notmyname | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103683/ | 19:15 |
| notmyname | so you can look at that, add too it, fix it, and share it with everyone! :-) | 19:15 |
| notmyname | #topic open discussion | 19:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:16 | |
| notmyname | what else is on your mind? | 19:16 |
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| peluse_ | 4 day work week I guess... | 19:17 |
| notmyname | I'm working on the 2.0 release stuff this week and I've got the "core sponsor" idea that we talked about in atlanta on my TODO list | 19:17 |
| mattoliverau | I think everyone is looking at the dash :P | 19:17 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:17 |
| notmyname | torgomatic has some interesting performance stuff to take a look at about removing kernel->user memcopies | 19:17 |
| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews is more up to date now | 19:18 |
| torgomatic | related to that, does anyone know of folks running Swift on non-Linux systems? | 19:18 |
| portante | torgomatic: production only? | 19:18 |
| torgomatic | portante: or staging, I guess... basically I'm using Linux-specific syscalls to get zero-copy data movement, and of course that won't work on FreeBSD or whatever | 19:19 |
| portante | but does your patch gracefully handle a non-linux box? | 19:19 |
| * portante thought it doeds | 19:19 | |
| portante | does | 19:19 |
| torgomatic | I think it does ;) | 19:19 |
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| torgomatic | I'm not overly worried about it, just curious about what's out there | 19:21 |
| notmyname | anything else from anyone? | 19:21 |
| portante | perhaps worth a mailing list query? | 19:21 |
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| torgomatic | possibly; once the work gets closer to done I'll ask the ML | 19:22 |
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| clayg | notmyname: annegentle had asked a while ago about some undocumented container sync config options | 19:22 |
| clayg | notmyname: I found recently that run_pause or whatever in the object-replicator is also undoc'd | 19:23 |
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| clayg | notmyname: as PTL, what's your plan for getting us to make this better? | 19:23 |
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| clayg | as in, can you make mattoliverau or something do it? | 19:23 |
| notmyname | lol | 19:23 |
| torgomatic | I looked at a couple of those, and they had help text on them, so I think the doc team's parser just wasn't picking them up | 19:24 |
| notmyname | it would be good to audit code->sample->docs to ensure that the right thing is in the right place :-) | 19:24 |
| torgomatic | not an exhaustive search though | 19:24 |
| clayg | notmyname: maybe we should patch oslo.config to support conf and get on that train? | 19:24 |
| mattoliverau | lol, i can take a look if you all want :) | 19:24 |
| clayg | support conf.d | 19:24 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: thanks!! | 19:24 |
| dhellmann | clayg: oslo.config already supports config directories | 19:25 |
| clayg | mattoliverau: well i'm not even sure what I'm asking you to do - torgomatic says it's already as good as it can possibly be | 19:25 |
| clayg | dhellmann: oh well I think that was my last hold out!? maybe we should look again! | 19:25 |
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| torgomatic | yeah, someone else is looking at it - that's as good as it gets! ;) | 19:25 |
| notmyname | clayg: are you proposing getting a lot of swift core devs to add an oslo config dependency? ;-) | 19:25 |
| mattoliverau | I can at least looks as I want to work my way through the code anyway :) | 19:25 |
| clayg | if it's *better* - I thought we liked dependencies that added value? is it crappy? | 19:26 |
| notmyname | I don't know. new == scary, right? ;-) | 19:26 |
| clayg | hrmm.... I think unknown == scary, I apparenlty don't know as much about oslo.config as I thought I used to? | 19:26 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: let me know how I can help guide you for looking at the config options | 19:26 |
| mattoliverau | notmyname: k, will do :) | 19:27 |
| notmyname | clayg: in general, that's fine. I don't think it's been such a pain point that people have prioritized it. if you look in to it and say it's awesome, I'll believe you | 19:27 |
| clayg | notmyname: well see | 19:27 |
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| clayg | dhellmann: oh... the conf.d support that was tricky was paste.ini configs - psate.loadapp doesn't support the conf.d directive by default | 19:28 |
| dhellmann | clayg: ok, that's not oslo.config then | 19:29 |
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| clayg | dhellmann: oh YEAH? then how do you document the config options that go in the middleware config sections? | 19:29 |
| dhellmann | clayg: I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Are those options passed through paste to the WSGI app? | 19:30 |
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| clayg | dhellmann: they are | 19:31 |
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| dhellmann | clayg: how are those being documented now? how are they defined? | 19:32 |
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| notmyname | does this need to move to #openstack-dev or #openstack-swift? | 19:32 |
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| notmyname | figure out what the answers are, what the possibilites are, and come back with the answers? | 19:33 |
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| clayg | notmyname: k | 19:33 |
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| notmyname | thanks last call for any other topics.... | 19:34 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:35 |
| notmyname | thanks everyone for coming | 19:35 |
| peluse_ | later on, thanks | 19:35 |
| notmyname | see you online... | 19:35 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:35 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 2 19:35:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:35 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-07-02-19.01.html | 19:35 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-07-02-19.01.txt | 19:35 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-07-02-19.01.log.html | 19:35 |
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| zaneb | #startmeeting heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Jul 2 20:00:40 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is zaneb. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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| zaneb | I haven't had any volunteers to chair yet this week | 20:01 |
| zaneb | #topic who is here? | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "who is here? (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:01 | |
| pas-ha | o/ | 20:01 |
| tspatzier | hi | 20:01 |
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| elynn | Hi | 20:01 |
| skraynev | hey o/ | 20:01 |
| tango | Hi | 20:01 |
| andrearosa_home | hi | 20:02 |
| randallburt | o/ | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 20:02 |
| BillArnold | hi | 20:02 |
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| zaneb | shardy? | 20:02 |
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| zaneb | #topic Review action items from last meeting | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review action items from last meeting (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:03 | |
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| wirehead_ | ./ | 20:03 |
| zaneb | both for me | 20:03 |
| zaneb | zaneb add mid-cycle meetup planning to Heat PTL guide on wiki | 20:03 |
| zaneb | I'm way ahead of you guys | 20:03 |
| zaneb | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/PTLGuide | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | down the bottom there | 20:04 |
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| zaneb | zaneb put link to PTL guide in Heat wiki page | 20:04 |
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| zaneb | tbh I don't think that's necessary. not every wiki page is accessible from the main Heat page, and this one is by definition only of interest to one person at a time | 20:05 |
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| zaneb | we have https://wiki.openstack.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&prefix=Heat&namespace=0 to list all wiki pages | 20:05 |
| zaneb | that is linked from /wiki/Heat | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | #topic Adding items to the agenda | 20:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:06 | |
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| zaneb | anybody? | 20:06 |
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| stevebaker | I've already added mine | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | capital | 20:07 |
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| zaneb | #topic Mid-cycle meetup | 20:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:07 | |
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| skraynev | I had one question, but I suppose it may be moved at the free discussion time :) | 20:08 |
| zaneb | #info Mid-cycle meetup is happening in Raleigh on Aug 18-20 | 20:08 |
| zaneb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-juno-midcycle-meetup | 20:08 |
| zaneb | can people please sign up on that etherpad ^ | 20:08 |
| zaneb | everything is confirmed, so now is the time to be getting approval and booking | 20:09 |
| zaneb | the TripleO experience with reserving a hotel block seems to suggest that we shouldn | 20:09 |
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| zaneb | shouldn't bother | 20:09 |
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| zaneb | #info no hotel block - just start booking | 20:10 |
| zaneb | #topic reviewing client-plugins | 20:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "reviewing client-plugins (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:10 | |
| zaneb | stevebaker | 20:10 |
| wirehead_ | In other words, don't let the lack of hotel blocks be a blocker. | 20:10 |
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| pas-ha | is the venue the same as triplo? | 20:10 |
| zaneb | wirehead_: correct | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/heat+branch:master+topic:bp/client-plugins,n,z | 20:11 |
| zaneb | pas-ha: yes, it's Red Hat Tower in downtown Raleigh | 20:11 |
| pas-ha | zaneb, thanks | 20:11 |
| randallburt | AKA "the patch set from hell" ;) | 20:11 |
| tspatzier | randallburt: lol | 20:11 |
| stevebaker | I started blueprint client-plugins a month ago and it is now quite a long patch series which has so far seen very few reviews. | 20:12 |
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| zaneb | randallburt: I'd be surprised if I haven't posted worse ;) | 20:12 |
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| stevebaker | I spend most of my time doing rebases with other changes that have landed, and I'd rather be doing something else;) | 20:12 |
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| randallburt | zaneb: so would I :D | 20:12 |
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| randallburt | stevebaker: fwiw, I've pinged my folks to look at that set, but I'll crack more whips | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | so in the nicest possible way, I'd like to ask that this series get priority for review attention | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | if there is anything else I can do to make reviews more likely, please let me know | 20:13 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: did you and asalkeld talk over stevadore? (I admit to not having looked at the patches in a while…) | 20:14 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: can you build me a clone? | 20:14 |
| * randallburt would like a pony | 20:14 | |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: I have blocked some time off tomorrow to look at those | 20:14 |
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| stevebaker | randallburt, I've switched client plugins to using stevedore, and asalkald has started a series which converts everything else. I think 80% of my series can land before me and Angus need to coordinate on the order that things need to merge | 20:15 |
| skraynev | I recommend to test these patches with some templates if you have a ability for this | 20:15 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: awesome. I'll also block off some time tomorrow to review/test | 20:16 |
| zaneb | #action review the client-plugins patch series | 20:16 |
| stevebaker | 80% is about 27 changes that need reviews ;) | 20:16 |
| randallburt | imma miss my weekly release next week I bet :( | 20:16 |
| zaneb | #topic AZ isolation in practice | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "AZ isolation in practice (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:16 | |
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| BillArnold | Mike Spreitzer and I are wondering about assertions that AWS AZs map to OpenStack AZs. The specific Heat concern is that there should be a way to spread scaling groups across entities that correspond to AWS AZs, which would eithe r be OpenStack regions or OpenStack AZs within a region. | 20:17 |
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| zaneb | this doesn't sound like a question that is in-scope for Heat to me | 20:17 |
| BillArnold | I've been looking for designs, or guidelines, or installer frameworks that would result in a separation of the stack components (heat, rest of openstack) which matches (roughly) the physical separation for OpenStack AZs. | 20:17 |
| stevebaker | oh, and I'm sitting on a beach from the middle of next week, so there is another reason for urgency on reviews | 20:17 |
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| BillArnold | zaneb has a bearing on how scaling group spreading is implemented. | 20:18 |
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| BillArnold | any pointers? | 20:18 |
| zaneb | BillArnold: OpenStack provides AZs for the purpose of allowing operators to deploy something analogous to AWS AZs | 20:18 |
| zaneb | whether they do or not is up to the operators | 20:18 |
| randallburt | BillArnold: so we need a way to specify that in the scaling group, but isn't it up to Nova to handle the actual scheduling/placement? | 20:18 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: ah, good to know. could you have another look at the action aware sw config spec before you leave. I added some comments based on yours and did some changes. | 20:19 |
| skraynev | randallburt: about these patches, could you please look last comments for https://review.openstack.org/#/c/97975/16, possibly it's ok :) | 20:19 |
| randallburt | skraynev: k | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier, ok, will do | 20:19 |
| skraynev | randallburt: thx | 20:19 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: thanks. and I'll give prio to your changes tomorrow | 20:19 |
| zaneb | BillArnold: AZs really only apply to Nova servers/EC2 instances + volumes | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier, thanks | 20:19 |
| BillArnold | randallburt instance groups already have a list of AZs as a property. Nothing acts on it though | 20:19 |
| BillArnold | zaneb yes | 20:20 |
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| randallburt | BillArnold: k. so its a matter of some sort of selection algorithm on that property value then? | 20:21 |
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| zaneb | as randallburt said, we can already pass an AZ for a server to Nova. now we just need to do it | 20:21 |
| randallburt | and then pass that info on to the nova create command when we pop an instance? | 20:21 |
| zaneb | SMOP, &c. | 20:21 |
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| BillArnold | randallrburt yes, with scaledown instance deletion policy close to what AWS has by default | 20:21 |
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| BillArnold | so the answer is just have a HA heat (and rest of openstack) for a region? | 20:22 |
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| zaneb | BillArnold: yes, you want your entire control plane highly-available | 20:23 |
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| BillArnold | zaneb ok we'll continue on the mailing list | 20:24 |
| zaneb | but that has nothing to do with AZs. AZs are about which compute servers Nova schedules instances on | 20:24 |
| zaneb | ok | 20:24 |
| zaneb | #topic Critical issues sync | 20:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Critical issues sync (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:24 | |
| zaneb | do we have any outstanding critical issues? | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103716/ is a proposed fix for a critical issue | 20:25 |
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| zaneb | it's looking like an artificial fix for an equally artificial 'problem' | 20:26 |
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| BillArnold | stevvebaker whiy does it fix the problem? | 20:26 |
| zaneb | I'm inclined to go for it, but it would also be nice to talk to SQLAlchemy folks about the underlying issue | 20:27 |
| zaneb | BillArnold: the problem occurs when we cancel a thread at a particular stage of performing a DB operation | 20:27 |
| stevebaker | BillArnold, best guess is that SQLAlchemy sometimes errors when its thread is killed. The error itself is harmless except that in the gate we fail the job if there is any ERROR entries in the heat log | 20:28 |
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| elynn | Is this patch really can prevent that problem? | 20:28 |
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| zaneb | which turns out to be quite likely to hit when we are trying multiple times in quick succession to delete an empty stack | 20:28 |
| randallburt | elynn: per comments and my review, not completely no. | 20:28 |
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| randallburt | but reduce it enough to keep the gates from blocking | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | elynn, yes. it prevents the issue when multiple deletes are request on a stack which has no resources (so it will delete quickly) | 20:29 |
| stevebaker | it is also critical because it is blocking an important change from shardy | 20:29 |
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| randallburt | stevebaker: but its not a 100% guarantee that the issue will never surface under some other conditions, yes? | 20:29 |
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| randallburt | not that I would hold up the train for that considering | 20:29 |
| zaneb | randallburt: correct | 20:30 |
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| zaneb | although it's vanishingly unlikely that you would hit this in real-world conditions | 20:30 |
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| randallburt | zaneb: agreed | 20:30 |
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| stevebaker | randallburt, correct, it will not prevent the problem in production, but it is a "harmless" ERROR logging | 20:30 |
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| zaneb | and, as far as we know, there's no impact if you do - but that is the part that I would like us to investigate further | 20:31 |
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| randallburt | zaneb: no problem there, but I +2 for the interim. | 20:31 |
| zaneb | randallburt: agreed | 20:31 |
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| tspatzier | so if this makes the gate happy, it's probably good to make the patch series from hell land ;-) | 20:31 |
| zaneb | I think we already reverted some of shardy's performance improvements to make the gate happy ;) | 20:32 |
| tspatzier | zaneb: I remember, but this one seems more harmless | 20:33 |
| zaneb | yep, it will be nice to get shardy's patch back in | 20:33 |
| zaneb | #topic Open Discussion | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: heat)" | 20:33 | |
| zaneb | skraynev: you had something? | 20:33 |
| stevebaker | there is another change before that btw https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103715/ | 20:33 |
| skraynev | yeap, some thing which I met on review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/72336/ | 20:34 |
| randallburt | stevebaker: +A | 20:34 |
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| zaneb | wow, that's a long review | 20:35 |
| skraynev | question is related with validation when we use in validate method some properties of depended resources | 20:35 |
| skraynev | AFAIK, currently during stack-create we do validation and then handle_create | 20:36 |
| pas-ha | zaneb, it is based on stevebaker's | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | pas-ha, \o/ | 20:37 |
| pas-ha | stevebaker, as you asked :) | 20:37 |
| skraynev | but in this case we have reference on other resource | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | skraynev, you can raise validation errors in handle_create | 20:37 |
| * randallburt fights urge to ramble all over that resource | 20:38 | |
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| wirehead_ | randal ramble? | 20:38 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: do you suggest to move this short validation part in handle_create? | 20:39 |
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| stevebaker | rambleburt | 20:39 |
| pas-ha | randallburt, don hold it inside, I'm all ears and eyes | 20:39 |
| randallburt | ^^ :) | 20:39 |
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| randallburt | pas-ha: well, it wouldn't be fair since I need to do some research into sahara, but it seems having the user specify cluster template and the service being able to tell you what image to use makes the resource properties needlessly cumbersome. | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | skraynev, yes. I think validation that checks on other resources should happen in handle_create | 20:40 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: I just thought about some tricky validation for such cases, but I like your idea :) | 20:40 |
| randallburt | pas-ha: but I only passed my eyes over the code just now so don't want to derail what's already been a long patch set. | 20:41 |
| zaneb | stevebaker++ | 20:41 |
| pas-ha | randallburt, no, mine is only 4 items long :) | 20:41 |
| randallburt | re: validating other resource dependencies in create: its the only way to be sure. | 20:41 |
| tspatzier | skraynev: how is reference to another resource done? by means of get_attr? | 20:42 |
| randallburt | pas-ha: oh, whoops :D | 20:42 |
| stevebaker | tspatzier, by doing API calls | 20:42 |
| tspatzier | stevebaker: ok, thanks | 20:43 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: thx, I stuck that validation can not be moved from validate | 20:43 |
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| pas-ha | not really, the api call is to check a particular properties combination is met | 20:43 |
| skraynev | tspatzier: no, through get_resource | 20:44 |
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| stevebaker | skraynev, Server does resource validation in handle_create | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | I need to go now, school run | 20:44 |
| tspatzier | property validation is done as a pre-fund of handle_create as I found recently when working on a patch. so yeah, doing more validation in handle_create seems to make sense. | 20:45 |
| zaneb | for stuff you can't know until runtime, handle_create is the place to do it | 20:45 |
| elynn | agree with zaneb and tspatzier | 20:45 |
| skraynev | tspatzier: when we ask cluster-template-id (it may be existing - it's ok, and when we create this template in heat template - it's failed) | 20:46 |
| elynn | the reason it failed is because of validation? | 20:47 |
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| skraynev | because when you use get_resource and do validate - this function can not be resolved correct, because the mentioned resource are not created yet and have not id | 20:48 |
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| skraynev | for validation | 20:48 |
| skraynev | elynn ^ | 20:48 |
| pas-ha | elynn, when create stack.validate is called first which calls validate for all of its children, and those are not created yet | 20:49 |
| tspatzier | so one more reason to do it in handle_create because this should not be executed until the other resource is in CREATE_COMPLETE | 20:49 |
| pas-ha | no i see the problem, will change | 20:49 |
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| skraynev | pas-ha: I added comment as reminder. | 20:51 |
| zaneb | ok, if there's nothing else I'm going to end the meeting | 20:51 |
| pas-ha | another topic that I've met several times - | 20:51 |
| skraynev | So my question is resolved | 20:51 |
| randallburt | doh! sooo close :D | 20:51 |
| * zaneb hovers | 20:51 | |
| pas-ha | do we need to have a single place/function to understand if heat runs on nova-net or neutron | 20:51 |
| pas-ha | ? | 20:51 |
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| pas-ha | since several places already need this info for proper validation | 20:52 |
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| randallburt | pas-ha: hrm. "maybe"? That sounds like something to hash out on the ML IMO. | 20:52 |
| pas-ha | ok | 20:52 |
| randallburt | zaneb: you're welcome ;) | 20:52 |
| zaneb | lol | 20:52 |
| skraynev | pas-ha: do you mean case about checking services in keystone? | 20:52 |
| pas-ha | yes | 20:53 |
| zaneb | could even be a config option | 20:53 |
| pas-ha | not sure if it is a best way (checking the keystone) | 20:53 |
| pas-ha | but as it crops up looks like it better be a single point of checking | 20:54 |
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| pas-ha | ok, to the ML then :) | 20:54 |
| * zaneb looks forward to the day when neutron replaces nova-network | 20:54 | |
| skraynev | zaneb: +100500 | 20:54 |
| zaneb | cool, thanks everyone! | 20:55 |
| zaneb | #endmeeting | 20:55 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:55 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Jul 2 20:55:07 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:55 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-07-02-20.00.html | 20:55 |
| * SpamapS strolls in too late | 20:55 | |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-07-02-20.00.txt | 20:55 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-07-02-20.00.log.html | 20:55 |
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| zaneb | SpamapS: maybe use the next 5 minutes to sign up for the meetup at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-juno-midcycle-meetup ;) | 20:56 |
| SpamapS | ah yes | 20:56 |
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| wirehead_ | SpamapS: you missed a pun. | 20:57 |
| wirehead_ | :P | 20:57 |
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