Wednesday, 2014-07-16

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JRobinson__Docs Meeting for APAC due to start in 20 minutes.02:41
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JRobinson__Docs Meeting to start in roughly 5 minutes.02:54
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JRobinson__If everyone is ready, we'll begin the meeting very soon,03:00
JRobinson__one line of preamble:03:00
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JRobinson__My name is Joe, I'm chairing today in place of loquacities, who is away managing03:01
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JRobinson__Sorry in advance for any errors or mistakes I make this morning, or afternoon.03:02
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JRobinson__Since I'm relatively new to working with OpenStack docs, and docs community meetings03:05
JRobinson__Ok, so that's time03:06
JRobinson__#startmeeting docteam03:06
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 16 03:06:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is JRobinson__. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"03:06
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'03:06
JRobinson__Reading the logs for the last meeting - I am not sure if there are items from the last meeting to action, but we'll start there03:07
JRobinson__#topic Action items from the last meeting03:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"03:07
JRobinson__So we had a docs tools update - xi includes more than once, and swift options03:08
JRobinson__and a review guide plus conventions review.03:09
JRobinson__Is there progress to note here?03:09
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JRobinson__annegentle, are there any further items to action from last meeting?03:12
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brucerJRobinson__: could you pls paste the link to the action items?03:14
brucerah is OK, loaded eventually03:15
JRobinson__ok that's the link? Thanks brucer, that's the one I was reading, and I was not sure you meant the log03:16
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brucerWell, thats just the text, guess the html is better.03:16
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brucerbut it was not loading for me!03:17
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JRobinson__Ok so for this meetings minutes03:17
dnavaleJRobinson__: i think these were discussed in the last APAC meeting. Shouldn't there be a new list from the US meeting that happened last week??03:17
JRobinson__The US meeting from 07/09/14? I am not sure where those are located03:19
dnavalethought they were all on the same page:
dnavalebut i dont see it there03:20
JRobinson__I was looking for the 9th of July - the 2nd is there, no 9th03:20
brucermaybe it didnt get put up...03:21
JRobinson__annegentle, Can we table the previous meeting actions and move on to this meetings agenda?03:21
bruceror maybe mtg didnt happen?03:21
JRobinson__It might have been rescheduled, however I could be confusing two different events03:22
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JRobinson__So would a topic change be ok at this point? We have four key points03:23
dnavaleyup, lets do that03:23
JRobinson__#topic Review of the Architecture and Design Guide book sprint03:23
*** openstack changes topic to "Review of the Architecture and Design Guide book sprint (Meeting topic: docteam)"03:23
JRobinson__So for a recap of the events last week, Nick Chase has written a post for the OpenStack blog03:24
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dnavaleyeah.. read that.03:25
dnavaledo you know when the design guide will be available?03:25
JRobinson__I don't, but I can find out03:25
dnavaleyes please03:26
dnavalethank you03:26
JRobinson__asettle, you mentioned when the sprint guide would be available?03:26
asettleI did not mention, no.03:26
asettleThere is some kinks we're currently ironing out.03:26
dnavaleasettle: no dates set at the moment??03:26
JRobinson__So current release date is TBA03:27
asettleUnfortunately the software chosen by Book Sprints was not exactly the greatest, so we're just trying to iron out a few things before we go to publish.03:27
asettleStay in touch with twitter.03:27
dnavaleah ok03:27
asettleI'll be sure to send an email around to both the Rackspace ppl and Red Hat people when it arrives on our shores.03:28
JRobinson__#info The new design guide's release date is currently TBA due to software issues03:28
dnavaleawesome, thanks asettle03:28
asettleProbably the best way to describe it, yup :p03:28
JRobinson__Thanks very much asettle03:28
JRobinson__#info congratulations to the OpenStack Architecture Design Guide writers!03:28
asettleAw shucks :D03:29
asettleI don't know if the others are awake.03:29
JRobinson__Around 3am in the morning, yes.03:30
dnavaleasettle: sgordon represented RH??03:30
asettleHe sure did.03:30
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JRobinson__Were there any further design guide points?03:30
asettleSo did Vinny Valdez, and Sebastian Guettierez (sp, gimme a sec)03:30
asettlednavale, only two of us were writers, as Steve is essentially a product manager now.03:31
asettleSebastian Gutierrez03:32
dnavalethat he is :)03:32
asettleAnyway, thanks JRobinson__ :)03:33
JRobinson__np asettle : )03:33
dnavaleCongrats y'all03:33
JRobinson__Ok, umm new topic:03:34
JRobinson__#topic docs-specs03:34
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JRobinson__A point for this meeting is to put a reminder up for everyone to work on the docs-specs03:34
JRobinson__annegentle, has put forward a few of these03:35
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JRobinson__And here is one currently being worked on03:35
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JRobinson__And here is also a link to the docs specification in more detail:03:37
dnavaleyup.. working with gauvain for this one..03:37
JRobinson__#info More Docs-specs need to be submitted03:38
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JRobinson__awesome, so in regards to a redesign spec, annegentle is waiting on data about the audience03:39
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JRobinson__and any audience analysis needs to be used for Python client dev docs03:39
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JRobinson__I thinks that's everything on docs spec03:40
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JRobinson__Moving on to docs tools updates03:42
JRobinson__#topic Docs tools updates: hyphenation and translation03:42
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JRobinson__In regards to hyphenation, we've had a patch that can remove the "SEVERE" hypenation error sometimes reported by maven03:44
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JRobinson__Sorry missed this from earlier:03:45
JRobinson__#info reminder: everyone please begin work on docs-specs03:46
JRobinson__so back to hyphenation03:46
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dnavaleI should go back and read mails related to this. i've never had an issue with hypernation. so not really sure what's happening with this patch03:47
JRobinson__#info hyphenation is included by default, and it can also be disabled for any particular build by adding <hyphenate>false</hyphenate> to the configuration section for the clouddocs-maven-plugin03:47
JRobinson__Yes this is recent - I'm reading from the email sent out about the patch03:48
dnavaleah ok.. thanks03:48
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JRobinson__In regards to translation - sorry if I have missed anything - the French user guide is near completion03:49
JRobinson__#info congrats to the French translation team once again03:49
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JRobinson__The last point before open discussion:03:50
JRobinson__#topic Networking blueprint03:50
*** openstack changes topic to "Networking blueprint (Meeting topic: docteam)"03:50
JRobinson__Sam-I-am and Phil Hopkins are working on a Networking Blueprint03:50
dnavaleJRobinson__: this is the one happening on Aug 9, right?03:51
JRobinson__I think it might be related to the docs swarm on the 9th, I can check03:51
dnavaleoh.. sorry, this is the blueprint and not the swarm..03:52
dnavalek.. thanks03:52
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JRobinson__#info a blueprint for stand-alone guide for those who need information on how to install, configure, and use networking has been created03:54
JRobinson__dnavale, ok, so no response yet, but I will let you know as soon as I get an answer about the networking guide and swarm03:55
JRobinson__so to move into open discussion now03:55
dnavalethank you03:55
JRobinson__#topic open discussion03:55
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JRobinson__Is there any other business for this meeting?03:57
dnavaleThe next APAC meeting will be F2F hosted here in RH BNE office on July 30.03:57
dnavaleWill send the details to Lana during that week.03:58
JRobinson__That's right : ) thank you dnavale03:58
dnavaleIt'll be fun to have you all over :)03:58
dnavalethat's it from my side, JRobinson__03:59
JRobinson__thanks it'll be good to visit :)04:00
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dnavaleyup, will see you guys on the 30th04:01
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bruceryeah, wil be good to see you04:03
brucerthats if asettle is not touring the world..04:03
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JRobinson__thanks brucer : ), we should all be in BNE.04:04
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brucerseeya then!04:04
JRobinson__And one final point04:05
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JRobinson__# Installation guide blueprint work continues under Sam-I-am 's direction04:05
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JRobinson__#info Installation guide blueprint work continues under Sam-I-am 's direction, specifically working on sections vital to the Juno release04:06
JRobinson__and with that, it's time to close the meeting04:06
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openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 16 04:07:14 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)04:07
openstackMinutes (text):
JRobinson__Thanks everyone :)04:08
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asettlebrucer, oh you know me, jet settin' around04:09
dnavaleThanks for conducting Joe, see ya :)04:10
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brucerasettle:  :-)04:10
brucercheers all04:10
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BobBalljohnthetubaguy: ping?15:06
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johnthetubaguyBobBall: hey, yeah, keep getting pulled away from this channel15:06
johnthetubaguy#startmeeting XenAPI15:06
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 16 15:06:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:06
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:06
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'15:06
johnthetubaguyhowdy all15:06
johnthetubaguy#topic Mid cycle meet up15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "Mid cycle meet up (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:07
johnthetubaguyjust thinking, who is going to the meet up?15:07
johnthetubaguyI am heading over for that15:07
* BobBall keeps his hands in his pockets15:07
johnthetubaguythe nova mid cycle I mean15:07
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johnthetubaguyOKay, just checking15:07
BobBallwhich makes it more impressive that I can continue to type15:07
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* johnthetubaguy giggles15:07
johnthetubaguy#topic CI15:07
*** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:07
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johnthetubaguyOK, so how is the CI this week15:08
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BobBallgaryk very helpfully pointed out a break that meant I had to rebase devstack-gate15:08
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BobBallI'm thinking of a cronjob to rebase d-g which would be exciting15:08
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BobBallor perhaps what would be better is a merge... Hmmm... anyway15:08
BobBallit meant we were broken for around 2 hours15:09
BobBallwhich is a shocking length of time15:09
BobBallApart from that, we're hitting the bugs that are also seen by the gate15:09
BobBallso all's good15:09
johnthetubaguyah, interesting, I thought we might avoid some of the gate bugs15:09
johnthetubaguywhich ones are you seeing?15:09
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BobBall for example15:10
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1286818 in openstack-ci "Ubuntu package archive periodically inconsistent causing gate build failures" [Low,Triaged]15:10
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1340660 in devstack "Apache failed to start in the gate" [Undecided,New]15:10
BobBall(the first one is a known Rackspace problem! :) )15:10
johnthetubaguyyeah, I never really understand that15:11
johnthetubaguypeople don't seem to agree thats and issue, etc.15:12
BobBallI get it a lot15:12
johnthetubaguywell, you are hitting the ubuntu mirrors, not the rackspace mirros15:12
BobBallyou're talking about the Rackspace Ubuntu mirror sometimes being out of date, right?15:12
BobBallno -
johnthetubaguyI think you need to explicitly point to the rackspace mirror, when I checked up on that15:13
BobBallthat's the hurtful one15:13
johnthetubaguyhmm, that sounds like our mirror, lol15:13
BobBallthe default is the rackspace mirror15:13
johnthetubaguybut that exception trace in the bug doesn't list the rackspace mirror, I guess thats what was confusing15:14
BobBallremebering, we actually point _away_ from the rackspace mirror so we don't hit that problem (that one is gate only) - the second one is the one I was thinking of but I just hit those two in check jobs which is why I was thinking about it15:14
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uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1251117 in openstack-ci "Rackspace package mirror periodically inconsistent causing gate build failures" [Low,Triaged]15:14
BobBallThat's the job I should have pasted, sorry15:14
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BobBall-job + bug15:15
johnthetubaguyah, OK, so I will try and raise that internally, last time someone dug into that, I got told people were not actually hitting the rackspace mirror15:15
johnthetubaguyit could be a network issue on the way there I guess15:15
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johnthetubaguyanyways, thanks for the extra detail15:16
johnthetubaguyI was just checking we didn't see loads of the ssh issues15:17
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johnthetubaguyI was hoping we side step those ones15:17
BobBallnot this week15:17
johnthetubaguyany more on CI?15:18
johnthetubaguyany news on getting those extra tests enabled yet?15:18
BobBallwaiting on a devstack review15:18
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johnthetubaguyOK, you got a link?15:19
johnthetubaguyI can see if my +1 helps15:19
johnthetubaguydoes that image work OK?15:20
johnthetubaguydoesn't look like a VHD one, I guess its a raw one?15:20
BobBallit's the three part image15:20
BobBallit's what we use in our internal CI15:20
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johnthetubaguyso what about removing the github link all together?15:20
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BobBallWe want to test VHD, so I'd argue against removing it15:21
BobBallBoth formats have been broken by someone else's changes in the past - so we might as well have both in there because tempest will (by chance) test both for us15:21
johnthetubaguyah, so you want to have both, that makes sense15:21
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BobBallthe default is the VHD image15:22
BobBallbut there are a specific class of tempest tests (that upload images to glance) that break that assertion15:22
johnthetubaguyso the test that needs the latest image will pick that one?15:22
BobBallSpecifically, see the except IOError: clause15:23
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BobBallbut all of that is too much info for the commit message :P15:24
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johnthetubaguyjust can't see why just yet15:25
BobBallOh - I know it's not CI stuff, but can you comment on ?15:25
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1204165 in nova "xenapi: vm_utils.ensure_free_mem does not take into account overheads" [Low,Triaged]15:25
BobBallcan't see why what?15:25
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johnthetubaguywell, just not sure why it needs the three part image for the test15:26
johnthetubaguyvs a qcow2 image15:26
johnthetubaguyfeels very hypervisor specific15:26
BobBallbecause it can't find qcow2, so it assumes everyone must have 3-part? or libvirt supports both, so it tries qcow and falls back to 3-part?15:27
BobBallit is exceptionally hypervisor specific15:27
BobBalland perhaps the answer is to fix tempest15:27
johnthetubaguyyeah, I think so15:27
BobBallbut the easy answer for us - and a very useful one for testing - is to have the 3 part image tested by that code path15:27
BobBallas I said before, people sometimes break 3-part so we should test it somewhere; and we want to default to VHD15:28
BobBallso this change is the right one for us15:28
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johnthetubaguyOK, but why is this stopping you adding some tests, because that bit of tempest can't create the correct image?15:29
BobBallwithout the 3-part image tempest fails because it's not there and we don't support/provide qcow215:29
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BobBallIOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/stack/new/devstack/files/images/cirros-0.3.2-x86_64-uec/cirros-0.3.2-x86_64-vmlinuz'15:30
johnthetubaguyI think I kinda get that now15:30
johnthetubaguyanyways +1 on that15:30
BobBallI'll ask in -infra15:30
johnthetubaguybetter to fix tempest though, but no idea which is quicker to review15:30
johnthetubaguyOK, any more?15:30
BobBallno, better _not_ to fix tempest15:30
BobBallas I said, we want UEC images to be tested15:30
BobBalland they are not tested anywhere else15:30
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BobBallso if we can test them here because tempest is hypervisor specific then that's just fine by me15:31
johnthetubaguyI kinda think we should rip that feature out of the system myself, but Ok15:31
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BobBallYes - any more:
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1204165 in nova "xenapi: vm_utils.ensure_free_mem does not take into account overheads" [Low,Triaged]15:32
BobBallPlease comment on the bug :)15:32
BobBallit's one you raised and the question is is it still relevant15:32
johnthetubaguyI just added a comment15:32
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BobBallah then no :(15:33
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johnthetubaguyyeah, we still need that fixing, I should work through some of those soon15:33
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johnthetubaguyI forgot about that one15:33
BobBallfair enough15:34
johnthetubaguyI think the real answer is to remove that check, or at least move it, but thats a different converstaion15:34
johnthetubaguy#topic Bugs15:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:34
johnthetubaguyI guess we did that already15:34
johnthetubaguy#topic Open Discussion15:35
BobBallwell the one I was talking about yeah...15:35
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"15:35
johnthetubaguyany more for any more15:35
BobBallhave you/anyone looked at the updated ocaml-vhd rpm?15:35
BobBallfor the snapshot bug?15:35
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johnthetubaguyI don't think there is an easy why for us to test that, the bug is not very reproducable15:35
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johnthetubaguyor at least, we don't have the information on how to reproduce it right now15:36
BobBallwell I thought you suggested it should be 100% reproducible :)15:36
johnthetubaguydone loads and they worked fine, all seemingly doing the same thing15:36
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johnthetubaguyon one particular VM it was reproducible, but we worked around things for that VM I think15:37
BobBallshame you didn't copy the VHDs15:37
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johnthetubaguyyeah, duno what they are doing, its not my team working on that right now15:38
johnthetubaguythey may have them, but thats customer data, so I suspect we couldn't do that15:38
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johnthetubaguyduno the details of that case right now15:38
johnthetubaguyanyways, any more for any more?15:38
johnthetubaguyI guess we are done15:39
johnthetubaguyBobBall: thanks, catch you next week15:40
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:40
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 16 15:40:05 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:40
openstackMinutes (text):
BobBallbye :)15:41
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jgriffithcinder meeting ?16:00
jgriffith#topic cinder meeting16:00
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jungleboyjYes, have some.16:00
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jgriffith#start meeting cinder16:01
jgriffith#startmeeting cinder16:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 16 16:01:51 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jgriffith. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:01
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:01
kmartinjgriffith: lol16:02
flip214that needs a few aliases.16:02
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jgriffithkmartin: bswartz it's been a while but today I did it :)16:02
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bswartzflip214: it's an inside joke -- he does it on purpose16:02
jgriffithWe've got a fairly full list of topics today16:02
jungleboyjWow, thingee is here.16:02
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flip214bswartz: oh, okay.16:02
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jgriffithI do want to start with one quick reminder16:02
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jgriffithJ-2 is scheduled for next week!!!!16:03
jgriffithIf you have work you were planning on getting in and it's not under review already you're probably too late16:03
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jgriffithBP/Spec proposal freeze is also upon us (tomorrow)16:03
jgriffithbut at this point I'm inclinded to reject anything that shows up anyway16:04
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navneetjgriffith: BP for whole juno?16:04
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navneetor just J216:04
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jgriffithnavneet: no, but we get really restrictive after J2 remember16:04
navneetjgriffith: ok...makes sense16:05
jgriffithnavneet: we're *supposed* to focus on stability, testing and bug fixes16:05
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jgriffithlet's get started16:05
jungleboyjWe should basically consider BP submissions frozen at this point.16:05
jgriffith#topic fun contributing to cinder16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "fun contributing to cinder (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:05
jgriffithDuncanT-: you're up16:05
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DuncanT-So, as the agenda item says, we've had lots of really nitty reviews16:06
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DuncanT-White space, docstring comment format etc16:06
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flip214is there some lint tool, like "indent" for C, that can reformat some sources completely? such a commandline could be used a precommit hook, and everything would be good.16:07
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DuncanT-My suggestion is 1) We stop doing those sorts of reviews unless the code is truely ugly b) For things like docstrings, fix the hacking check or STFU16:07
DuncanT-flip214: None that are very good IMO16:07
flip214DuncanT-: okay. 1+ for I)16:07
thingeeDuncanT-: you know what's a bummer, is I have to keep reminding the same people16:07
thingeeDuncanT-: lets start there16:07
bswartzhow about for people that really want to be format nazis -- upload a new patchset yourself16:07
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asselinI agree we shouldn't waste time reviewing those nitpicks16:08
DuncanT-thingee: Can we just fix the hacking checks to spot it or stop caring?16:08
navneetDuncanT: agree.....but untill we fix hacking.rst what should we do?16:08
eharneyare people going to be annoyed if people submit cleanup patches?16:08
jgriffithflip214: pep8/flake8 and hacking16:08
asselinor at least, no -1's for it.16:08
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jgriffithflip214: and if those don't catch it we shouldn't care IMO16:08
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eharneybecause at some point we have to make things tidy either in the review process or in later changes16:08
thingeeDuncanT-: my effort is to stop it. If you don't like me reminding people and would prefer a script to people remind people, by all means.16:08
jgriffitheharney: you know I will be :)16:08
thingeeI'm doing my part by keeping it out16:08
* thingee can be replaced by a shell script16:09
DuncanT-thingee: I don't see the details as important, I'd suggest that people who do should script it ratehr than doing it in reviews16:09
jgriffiththingee: I think the point is kinda being missed16:09
eharneyso the proposal is really: we will be ok with some level of inconsistency/messiness16:09
flip214well, if there's a script to do that, it should be automatically done *at some, fixed points in time*.16:09
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jgriffithIf I could interrupt for a second16:09
flip214so that there are not that many merge conflicts because of whitespace changes.16:09
jgriffithI think the sort of thing that's a bit troubling is16:09
jgriffithfor example when there are 5 +1's or +2's16:10
DuncanT-thingee: If you thing it is important and can script it, please please please do16:10
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jgriffiththen someobdy throws a -1 or even a -2 because somebody used "theres" instead of "their's"16:10
jungleboyjjgriffith: +1 ...16:10
jgriffithor becasue there was an extra whitespace in a docstring or comment16:10
DuncanT-We have a 1 week window per milestone for cleanup patches, so we can clean it up16:10
akerrif you remember that it needs cleaned up16:11
jgriffithtypos in comments should be fixed up but I don't think a patch should be rejected because of them16:11
jungleboyjjgriffith: I have been not worrying about minor misspellings in commit messages.  If it is early in the review I comment on typos or formatting but not if it is close to being merged.16:11
jgriffiththink I was lost in the noise16:11
thingeeDuncanT-: I'm fine with helping reupload people's patches who make small mistakes. I'm not ok with making an exception on the style guides.16:11
eharneyjungleboyj: commit messages are different... they are permanent and people need to be able to search for terms in them16:11
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akerryou can change commit messages right in gerrit now, right?16:12
thingeeI think if I had enough bandwidth, I would help with the hacking scripts.16:12
DuncanT-Thingee: The style guides are guides, it is there in the name... anything hacking enforces I'm fine with, but people -1ing on them is costing openstack contributers and not improving the code noticably16:12
jgriffithDuncanT-: +116:12
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flip214+1, move on?16:12
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jungleboyjthingee: Problem there is then we have to all agree on what to enforce.  :-)16:13
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navneetDuncanT: +116:13
DuncanT-Thingee: I'd rather let them slide until the hacking script is fixed then fix them up at the same time as fixing the script - all future cases will get cause by the script16:13
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navneetI got depressed too with reviews on my code sometimeback16:13
jgriffithCan we just agree to lighten up a bit....16:13
DuncanT-jgriffith: +116:13
jgriffithfor example: if you review a patch make a comment *hey could you fix this up*16:14
jgriffithbut quit holding up the queue for nits?16:14
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jgriffithit's subjective, but we're all adults16:14
jgriffithwe can do this16:14
jungleboyjjgriffith: +1  fair enough.16:14
eharneythere are also some places that this gets a lot trickier such as in text descriptions for config options etc...16:14
xyang2jgriffith: +116:14
navneetjgriffith: +116:14
jgriffithand if you want to -1 that's fine16:14
jgriffithit's your right16:14
DuncanT-eharney: If it looks important, -1. That's fine16:14
glenngMakes sense16:15
jgriffithbut it may get ignored :)16:15
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navneetfair enough16:15
jgriffithbut PLEASE for the love of whatever, no -2's for nits!16:15
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jungleboyjjgriffith: That hasn't been happening, has it?16:15
jgriffiththingee: you ok with that?16:15
jgriffithjungleboyj: it's happened in the past, but it's been a while luckily16:16
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jgriffithok... thingee may have left us16:16
jgriffithshall we move on?16:16
jgriffithDuncanT-: you good?16:16
bswartzthingee is busy replacing himself with a shellscript16:16
thingeejgriffith: it's usual make exceptions. i get it16:17
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jgriffithbswartz: perl script I think16:17
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jgriffiththingee: what's that supposed to mean?16:17
jungleboyjOoooh, we could use PERL?16:17
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thingeejgriffith: we can take it offline16:17
jgriffiththingee: I think we should, I'll ping you after meeting16:17
jgriffithDuncanT-: anything else?16:18
jgriffithDuncanT-: .... you fall asleep?16:18
jgriffithok then16:18
jungleboyjjgriffith: Left for the pub.16:18
DuncanT-Sorry, connection froze up16:19
jgriffith#topic how to proceed with openstack-req's16:19
*** openstack changes topic to "how to proceed with openstack-req's (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:19
jgriffithDuncanT-: DOH16:19
DuncanT-I'm done16:19
jgriffithhopefully you were good16:19
jgriffithflip214: what ya got here?16:19
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flip214In I'm trying to get a DBUS library into the dependencies.16:19
flip214but that's quite awful...16:19
flip214while for production setups there are packages available (RHEL, SUSE, Debian/Ubuntu),16:20
flip214devstack wants to use a tarball from pypi.python.org16:20
flip214and that is a) old b) not pip compatible and so c) doesn't work for devstack.16:20
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DuncanT-flip214: Then that tarball needs fixing up.... should eb easy enoguh to do16:21
flip214using a single python library from system libraries seems to be hard in devstack - or at least might influence many other things16:21
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flip214DuncanT-: not that easy, said the maintainer.16:21
flip214dbus needs libraries and so compiles some bits via a C compiler16:21
flip214so autotools are needed etc.16:21
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eharneydo dbus basically isn't maintaining a release on pypi?16:21
eharneyso dbus*16:22
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flip214IMHO we should just use the available packages...16:22
DuncanT-flip214: There are loads of things on pypi that do that...16:22
flip214eharney: not "maintaining" as such, no.16:22
DuncanT-flip214: Openstack wants to be able to run all the python stuff from a venv. There are good reasons for that desire16:22
flip214well, if anyone knows enough autotools and pip and python etc. to help the maintainer fix that, I'd be very happy.16:22
eharneythis sounds like a situation where we may need to do something like a fake_dbus, similar to what Nova does with libvirt for similar reasons16:22
jgriffithflip214: honestly this brings me back to my earlier rants16:22
navneetflip214: are you suggestng devstack uses available packages as per distribution and installs them which might not be appening rt now?16:23
jgriffithflip214: perhaps just don't put your stuff in req's16:23
DuncanT-flip214: Send me a link to the library, I'll see if I can find a volunteer16:23
jgriffithflip214: it's a seperate config step for your users16:23
jgriffithflip214: only other option is do things the way everybody else has to16:23
flip214well, in production we'll have RPMs/DEBs for our stuff, with the correct dependencies. No problem there.16:23
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jgriffithflip214: I'm still pretty adimentn that I shouldn't have to download a boat load of packages/libs in my test env when I'm not even using your stuff16:24
* avishay sneaks in and sits in the back16:24
eharneyjgriffith: that is avoided with my suggestion above16:24
navneetflip214: devstack can add similar mechanism ? it knows the platform16:24
jgriffitheharney: sorry... I missed it?16:24
eharneybasically you make a fake dbus module that has stubs for the methods you want to unit test against16:24
jgriffitheharney: +100016:24
eharneynova does this for libvirt unit tests because it's a similar mess16:24
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bswartzjgriffith: why do I have to download hp3parclient to get cinder unit tests to run then?16:24
eharneythis sounds like the same problem and should have the same solution16:24
jgriffitheharney: that's what i asked HP and everybody else to do16:25
navneetbswartz: +1...good question16:25
eharneybswartz: supposedly that was fixed16:25
jgriffithbswartz: cuz hemna__ refuses to help me out on this16:25
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bswartzeharney: that would be good news16:25
jgriffithbswartz: as much as gripe and complain to him about it :)16:25
jgriffithbswartz: eharney and yes it was16:25
bswartzoh I will change my setup script and try this16:25
jgriffithbswartz: eharney IIRC 3par, lhn both16:26
flip214yes, for testing on devstack some fake_dbus is needed anyway. but what if I want to test the cinder driver *in real operation* within devstack?16:26
bswartz+1 for not requiring weird libraries if you're not using a vendor's stuff16:26
DuncanT-flip214: Does that make sense to you?16:26
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eharneyflip214: in devstack it will just load the system dbus driver because nothing will be mocking it out16:26
navneetflip214: install as per the platform manually as was done for hp3par before16:26
jgriffithnavneet: +116:26
flip214DuncanT-: I'll need some more details on how to provide the fake library for devstack, but basically yes.16:26
DuncanT-flip214: At least until pypi is fixed up16:26
jgriffithflip214: I think the bottom line is this16:27
DuncanT-flip214: That isn't too hard, we can talk offline16:27
navneetflip214: its your driver so you can take responsibility of testing it16:27
flip214ok thanks, then I'm done with that issue.16:27
jgriffith3'rd party libs for "drivers" don't belong in requirements16:27
jgriffithif you want them there you need to go with the rules they have16:27
flip214jgriffith: okay, will cancel the proposal then.16:27
eharneyjgriffith: eh... they have to be vetted for licensing though16:27
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jgriffitheharney: I don't think so16:28
jgriffitheharney: that's the beauty of leaving them out I thought16:28
jgriffitheharney: if you suck them in that's *your* problem16:28
eharneyjgriffith: not sure how that would work out but i'll go with it -- not important for now16:28
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jgriffitheharney: I certainly could be wrong16:28
jgriffitheharney: INAL16:29
DuncanT-We can burn that bridge when somebody is standing on it...16:29
DuncanT-Shall we move on?16:29
avishayDuncanT-: :)16:29
* jungleboyj is enjoying that mental image.16:29
jgriffith#topic code-churn16:29
*** openstack changes topic to "code-churn (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:29
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jgriffithflip214: what are you thinking of exactly here?16:29
* jungleboyj just accidentally typed 'code church' in my notes.16:29
flip214thanks, mine again. I'd like to do some work - both for an implementation of the replication API, and for a cinder volume driver.16:29
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flip214I'm just not sure whether the code churn will make all that obsolete even before I complete a draft version.16:30
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jgriffithflip214: so first... volume driver?16:30
eharneythat shouldn't generally be a problem for a driver16:30
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jgriffithflip214: you mean add a "new" volume driver for your product?16:31
flip214jgriffith: yeah, using DRBDmanage below, for replicated storage, but without cinder having to know about that detail.16:31
DuncanT-Most drivers haven't been broken by code changes very often at all...16:31
jgriffithDuncanT-: we'll see if I can change that :)16:31
flip214but as the backend/connector layers are being rewritten I'm not sure whether it's a good time right now.16:31
jgriffithflip214: we're pretty good about keeping the API calls consistent16:31
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jgriffithflip214: you're kinda too late anyway :(16:32
jgriffithtypically we frown upon new drivers after J216:32
jgriffitherr... second milestone16:32
flip214I may be completely off-track, but I feel that there are too many git HEADs running around, each changing some substantial portion of the code base ...16:32
DuncanT-jgriffith: That's days away yet....16:32
navneetjgriffith: or simply ignore the driver :)16:32
jgriffithDuncanT-: LOL16:32
flip214jgriffith: the BP is available since a month, and the first draft implementation was done in May.16:33
DuncanT-flip214: That's perfectly normal for openstack I'm afraid.... CI should help16:33
flip214now it's just to implement all needed things - like snapshots and so on.16:33
jungleboyjflip214: what DuncanT- said.16:33
jgriffithflip214: *just*16:33
DuncanT-flip214: But this is massively parallel development16:33
flip214achieving "stability", if you like16:33
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jgriffithflip214: welcome to OpenStack :)16:33
flip214thanks, I enjoy my ride ;)16:33
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jgriffithflip214: that's fine, work on your code16:33
jgriffithflip214: just be sure to test it16:33
jungleboyjflip214: It is iterative.16:33
flip214but if it's just a wrong feeling on my side, then thanks - I'm done.16:34
jungleboyjDon't have to get everything in at once.16:34
jgriffithflip214: this is why we want 3'rd party CI so badly16:34
jgriffithjungleboyj: ummmm not true16:34
jgriffithjungleboyj: for drivers you sure do16:34
DuncanT-flip214: Once you're merged and plugged into CI, most obvious breakage will be the job of the breakee to fix in most cases16:34
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Well, all the required function, yes.16:34
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jungleboyjjgriffith: Thought he was worried about the newer functions.16:34
jungleboyjjgriffith: I.E. replication.16:34
jungleboyjjgriffith: That is still a moving target and can be added for his driver at a later point.16:35
jgriffithok... shall we move on?16:36
jgriffithflip214: you good?16:36
jgriffithflip214: we can talk more in cinder if you want16:36
jgriffithflip214: sorry but a big part of the answer on both of your topics today is "sorry, this is kinda how things roll"16:36
flip214thanks, I'm done.16:36
jgriffithflip214: there's always a ton of parallel dev work16:36
flip214jgriffith: that's cool, I'll have to find out how things work here.16:36
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jgriffithand that's not going to change for a driver submission16:37
flip214it's a bit different than sitting with the 3 other developers in the same room ...16:37
DuncanT-flip214: But far more fun16:37
jgriffithflip214: yeah... it's a steep curve, but I think you've got it pretty well16:37
jungleboyjDuncanT-: +216:37
jgriffithokie dokies16:37
jgriffith#topic hitachi driver update16:37
*** openstack changes topic to "hitachi driver update (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:37
jgriffithdo we have a hitachi rep here?16:37
tsekiyamajgriffith: yep16:38
jgriffithtsekiyama: ahh... hello!16:38
tsekiyamahi all16:38
tsekiyamawe've uploaded our recent patch on, and passed the unit tests16:38
tsekiyamaand urrently it has -2 because there was multiple reviews opening in the past (v2, v3, etc.)16:39
tsekiyamabut old ones are marked 'Abandoned' now16:39
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tsekiyamaSo I'd like to know how we can move this driver forward to be merged16:39
jgriffithtsekiyama: I'll fix that16:39
jgriffithtsekiyama: can you also clean up the bp16:39
tsekiyamajgriffith: thanks16:40
DuncanT-TBH I skipped reviewing it because of the -2, I'll put it back on my list16:40
jgriffithtsekiyama: my concern was that there were "v1, v2, v3..." patches all submitted16:40
jgriffithnone dependencies etc16:40
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jungleboyjMe too.16:40
tsekiyamaah ok, we'll cleanup the BPs too16:40
avishayonly 5700 LOC, no biggie16:40
* jgriffith vomits a bit 16:41
DuncanT-I'm wondering how much of that trace infrastructure we can generalise16:41
jgriffithtsekiyama: thank you16:41
navneetavishay: :)16:41
avishaycert test results?16:41
DuncanT-avishay: cert test results are in the review comments16:41
jgriffiththingee: I removed the -2, my only concern was you had 3 versions of that in process16:41
jgriffithdidn't know which one you actually *wanted* :)16:41
avishayDuncanT-: okey dokey16:41
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xyang2jgriffith: Do all drivers have to be merged next week, J2?16:41
tsekiyamaavishay: the link to result is in the threadd16:41
avishaytsekiyama: ok no problem16:42
jgriffithxyang2: they're supposed to be16:42
xyang2EMC has several drivers that need be reviewed too.  Any help appreciated!16:42
jgriffiththere are a ton of reviews to be done... and a large number of them are drivers16:42
* thingee missed something16:42
jgriffithxyang2: we'll get it worked out16:42
xyang2jgriffith: thanks!16:43
DuncanT-thingee: Tab completion error, don't worry16:43
jgriffiththingee: my comment about drivers?16:43
soneajgriffith, if alle drivers have to be merged next week what about the openattic driver? - can we  still upload our code?16:43
jgriffiththingee: OHHH16:43
jgriffithyeah, tab completion16:43
jgriffithsonea: we should talk about that16:43
jgriffithsonea: I was inclined to not merge that16:43
nileshbIBM NAS driver extension for GPFS over NFS needs review:
jgriffithsonea: it's a straight up duplicate of drivers that already exist in Cinder16:44
nileshbAny help much appreciated16:44
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jgriffithPlease stop asking for reviews on your driver patches16:44
jgriffithsonea: I'm trying to understand the benefit16:44
jungleboyjnileshb: That has been reviewed and there are comments to address.16:45
jgriffithsonea: you offer an LVM driver and ZFS etc16:45
jgriffithsonea: all drivers that exist in Cinder natively16:45
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jgriffithsonea: grab me in #openstack-cinder16:46
jgriffithwe're runnign out of time16:46
jgriffith#topic crazy a**ed logging16:46
soneajgriffith, yes thank you16:46
*** openstack changes topic to "crazy a**ed logging (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:46
tsekiyamawe'd also like to know about 3rd party CI status, maybe discuessed in next topic?16:46
jgriffitherr DuncanT-16:46
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DuncanT-Ok, so16:47
DuncanT-I can only see one thing we can do to avoid needing the _LW etc bits, as noted in the agenda16:47
DuncanT-Or we can say we don't care, and let the translation leams suck it up16:48
DuncanT-Or somebody smarter than me can come up with a better idea16:48
jgriffithDuncanT-: yeah, as much as I think not using msg variables can be painful, it's not as bad as the crazy "LW_" blah blah16:48
jgriffithDuncanT-: I'm inclined to vote for that as an option16:48
navneetDuncanT-: smarter than you....not true16:48
DuncanT-If we want go with the first option, then I've got a load of time sat in an airport on Friday so I'll work up a patch16:48
jungleboyjDuncanT-: When I brought this up with jgriffith and hemna__ the initial response was to say we don't care.16:48
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jgriffithDuncanT-: BTW, I'm assuming you didn't mean to omitt the LOG.warning(*_*(16:49
jgriffithjungleboyj: what?16:49
eharneycan we not write some log method ourselves like LOG_warning() that would handle the categorization as well as logging?  i'm not sure how to do this but there must be some way...16:49
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jgriffithjungleboyj: you brought up the two options?16:49
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jungleboyjjgriffith: We talked about this last Thursday when I asked about the process for getting the _Lx() implemented and it sounded like we were going to ignroe it for now.16:50
jgriffitheharney: that what I asked16:50
DuncanT-jgriffith: I absolutely intended to, though I'm now not sure that is right.... I was going to make the string extraction understand that LOG.xxxx() should be treated like _()16:50
jgriffitheharney: I was told *no* but I'm still not convinced16:50
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jgriffitheharney: I wrote my own version in utils16:50
eharneyjgriffith: it does seem hard but i'm not really convinced either16:50
jgriffitheharney: and it did the whole crazy LW prefix thing16:50
jgriffitheharney: but the argument was that is messes up with imported libs16:50
jgriffitheharney: which led me back to my "quit using libs, they are a PITA"16:51
* jungleboyj is confused.16:51
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eharneyit shouldn't if you make a new LOG_warning() method instead of overwriting lower-level ones..16:51
eharneybut i dunno.  i suggest we poke around for alternatives.16:51
jgriffithDuncanT-: ahh...16:51
jungleboyjDuncanT-: You are going to write something up that makes automatically do ?16:51
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jgriffithDuncanT-: so that's the *other* issue16:51
jgriffitheharney: I fully agree16:51
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jgriffitheharney: the problem is folks like Doug Hellman came up with this and hes' WAYYY smarter than me about python internals and tricks16:52
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jgriffithif that's what he came up with I'm a bit discouraged in what I can do :(16:52
jungleboyjAre we mixing two discussions here?16:52
jgriffithjungleboyj: yes *your* are :)16:52
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* jungleboyj blushes16:53
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DuncanT-Basically the thing that consumes these macros is the string extraction machinery.... which runs offline, so I *think* I can teach that to be smarter16:53
jgriffithjungleboyj: they're very much related16:53
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DuncanT-The actual translation works fine with _16:53
jungleboyjDuncanT-: Ok, I see.  So you think we can avoid having to add in _Lx() ?16:53
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DuncanT-jungleboyj: In most cases, yes16:54
jungleboyjDuncanT-: That would be fabulous!16:54
DuncanT-jungleboyj: We'd still need it for msg = "blah" cases, but there are far fewer of those16:54
jungleboyjDuncanT-: Do we have a better solution than explicitly adding the import of _ in each file that uses _() ?16:54
DuncanT-jungleboyj: No16:54
jgriffithDuncanT-: so people like me just quit using that form :)16:54
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DuncanT-jgriffith: Or use _Lx() - either will work16:55
jungleboyjDuncanT-:  Ok, I need to get that review through then.16:55
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jgriffithit's so silly16:55
jungleboyjDuncanT-: I prefer not to have msg = used anyway.  That seems easy enough to enforce.16:55
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DuncanT-jgriffith: I suspect you could catch all your cases with static analysis, but I won't have that done by the weekend :-)16:56
navneetjungleboyj: msg = is required for long ones....better visible16:56
jgriffiththere's serious downsides to that, as much as I'd be inclined to say OK16:56
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jgriffithnavneet: +116:56
akerrso the example in the agenda confuses me, should it not have LOG.warning(_(...?16:56
jungleboyjjgriffith: navneet That is in limited cases though.16:57
DuncanT-akerr: Looks like it will need to16:57
jgriffithjungleboyj: huh?16:57
jungleboyjakerr: Yes.16:57
DuncanT-akerr: To get translation domains right16:57
navneetjungleboyj: we use it for that purpose otherwise dont16:57
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jgriffiththat just seems funny16:57
jungleboyjDuncanT-: +216:57
DuncanT-Looks like it is worth putting some effort into..... I'll post a patch16:57
jgriffith"use that in cases that you need it, otherwise don't use it"16:57
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jgriffiththat's what we do now :)16:57
jgriffithDuncanT-: thanks!16:57
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jungleboyjjgriffith: +216:58
akerr2 minute warning16:58
jungleboyjSo msg = "my short message" is bad16:58
xyang2DuncanT_: should I still ask people to change LOG.warning() to LOG.warning(_(...?16:58
jgriffithjungleboyj: pick which of your topics you want16:58
jungleboyjxyang2: I would say yes.16:58
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DuncanT-xyang2: Ask me on Monday when I've got something working16:58
jgriffithseems we kinda covered the first a bit16:58
DuncanT-xyang2: But probably16:58
navneetjungleboyj: yes... and we need to use msg + "long msg" for extreme cases?16:58
xyang2DuncanT-, jungleboyj: ok, thanks16:59
jungleboyjjgriffith: Yes, so I just want to clarify what is going to happen on 7/24 as far as diver removal.16:59
jgriffithbahh... we're out of time16:59
jgriffith#topic driver removal for no 3'rd party ci16:59
*** openstack changes topic to "driver removal for no 3'rd party ci (Meeting topic: cinder)"16:59
jgriffithjungleboyj: tomorrow16:59
DuncanT-jungleboyj: I start shouting louder!16:59
jgriffithI'll start removing drivers16:59
jungleboyjjgriffith: We can take it to #cinder16:59
navneetjgriffith: u promised juno 316:59
jungleboyjjgriffith: I know.16:59
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jgriffithnavneet: I didn't, others did16:59
DuncanT-jungleboyj: Anybody who I don't have a maintainer email for or who isn't answering might get a rude patch in17:00
jgriffithlet's chat in openstack-cinder17:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 16 17:00:15 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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jgriffiththanks everybody17:00
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tjones#startmeeting vmwareapi17:00
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openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 16 17:00:41 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi'17:00
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tjoneshi golks17:01
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arnaud__fyi: gary and dado can't make it17:01
tjonesok bummer17:02
tjoneslets get started then17:02
tjonesjust want to bring to your attention - the schedule17:02
tjonesjuno-2 is next week!17:02
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tjonesthat came fast!!!17:03
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tjones#topic BP under review17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "BP under review (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:03
tjonesso take a look here - there is nothing17:04
tjonesno open specs17:04
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tjoneshere are the merged specs #link,n,z17:05
tjoneskiran is not here17:05
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tjoneshis is missing17:05
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mdboothtjones: n00b question: what does 'open' mean in the above context?17:05
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tjonesopen means still in review17:05
tjonesnot yet approved17:06
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tjonesmerged means approved17:06
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tjonesyeah so i am wondering what happened to the specs we had last week in review17:06
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mdboothjohnthetubaguy was doing some spec cleanup17:06
mdboothDid he kill them?17:07
arnaud__-2 them17:07
johnthetubaguyI suspect I did, sorry, its freeze time17:07
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johnthetubaguyso, in future, it would be awesome to see lots of +1s on your specs that you really think are ready, it will help us identify when a sub-group has blessed something17:07
johnthetubaguynow we are compiling the list of things that might want exceptions, but its getting too big already17:08
tjonesyeah thanks johnthetubaguy.  i see that in your comment17:08
johnthetubaguydo you have anything that is about driver consistency?17:08
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mdboothjohnthetubaguy: Like what?17:08
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johnthetubaguylike adding support for API xyz that doesn't already work17:09
johnthetubaguyor something like that17:09
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mdboothI don't think so17:09
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tjonesi don't think so either17:09
mdboothWhile we're on the subject, I (very briefly) discussed the refactor series with johnthetubaguy, this morning I think17:10
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johnthetubaguybummer, oh well, feel free to raise one or two you think are super super important, but I can't promise anything17:10
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mdboothWe've got a huge patch series which is ready for core review17:10
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mdboothHowever, because the phase 3 stuff hasn't landed, yet, we can't mark the BP as needs review17:11
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mdboothWhich means we're less likely to get attention on the stuff which is already in17:11
mdboothI think we need to land that asap17:11
vuilI am working on getting the phase 3 stuff posted in the next day or two.17:12
mdboothvuil: Awesome17:12
vuilBut honestly the current huge list of patches are ready and orthogonal17:12
mdboothvuil: Phase 3 patches?17:12
vuilWe should encourage review eyes on them17:12
tjoneslets talk about aproved BP then17:12
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tjones#topic approved BP17:12
*** openstack changes topic to "approved BP (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)"17:12
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tjonesso - the refactor!!17:12
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vuilmdbooth: I mean the current rather sizeable list of reviews that we should have the cores look at17:13
tjoneswow  - it's 15 or so patches now right?17:13
mdboothDid I do that right?17:13
vuilI was referring to the refactor-related chain of patches17:14
mdboothvuil: Cool. I'm surprised they're orthogonal, though.17:14
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mdboothI can't imagine it's possible to touch that code without conflicting with something in the existing series.17:14
vuilfor review purposes, I mean. It's not like the current dozen or so patches cannot be reviewed and merged17:14
mdboothYes, they can17:15
tjonesmdbooth: can you paste the link to the dependent patches list like you did that time?17:15
vuilThe phase 3 code mainly refactors the second part of spawn that the current series mostly does not touch.17:15
tjonesthe list has grown17:15
mdboothtjones: ^^^17:15
tjonesthat is all of our ourstanding patches17:15
tjonesnot just spawn17:16
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mdboothtjones: If you make it wide enough you can see the refactor series in the middle of it17:16
tjonesok i see it17:16
mdboothIncidentally, I've now ported the dep feature to qgerrit17:16
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mdboothThe above was generated by my qgerrit fork17:17
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vuil106794 to  10414817:17
mdboothSo I could probably improve it by removing some fields :)17:17
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tjonesthis is great17:18
tjonesanyway ——  do you guys think we can get this done by juno-2 (7/24)?17:18
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vuilIt's not unreasonable to ask that the cores look at those right? They have had various stages of +1/+2 already17:18
tjonesyes that seems very reasonable17:19
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mdboothvuil: Right. If we genuinely think the whole BP is landed, though, we can mark it as needs review17:20
mdboothWhich apparently puts it in a priority queue17:20
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tjonesvuil:  mdbooth: do you have anything ele to do or is it done?17:21
mdboothtjones: Nothing on refactor, no.17:21
tjoneslets mark it as need review then!17:21
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vuilThe last patch in my list, is being rebased and broken up right now.17:21
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mdboothHere's output with fewer fields, btw:
mdboothSlightly easier to read17:22
vuilI do think it is not a stretch to mark this as needs review.17:22
tjonesok so vuil when you have pushed it, lets mark the BP as need review17:22
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vuilIt will take time for the cores to wade through even the initial list17:22
tjoneswe are not going to have much time to get vsan, spbm, etc in after refactor17:23
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mdboothspbm has a dep on oslo.vmware17:24
mdboothI think we need to push oslo.vmware hard17:24
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mdboothIf we don't, it won't make juno-317:24
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tjonesthat BP is already marked as need review.  it's quite large.  i see dims and gary have already +117:25
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tjonesit could use a few more from this team before we start asking the cores to look17:25
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mdboothI think I've reviewed it at least once17:25
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mdboothAlthough I haven't looked in detail recently17:25
tjonesso for the next week - the prio is spawn refactor reviews and oslo.vmware reviews17:26
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vuil70175 is large by necessity, but changes are quite mechanical17:27
tjonesoslo.vmware maybe higher prio as it's already marked in review - so it really has a chance of making j-217:27
tjonesanything else on BP for juno?17:27
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arnaud__on the glance side (which might be relevant for vmware stuff at some point): I am asking an exception for this one
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tjoneswill there be significant changes in nova if you get it approved?17:29
johnthetubaguymdbooth: hey, I got distracted, but about those refactor patches, if you people can review them all and get it to where you are all happy, and add lots of +1s, it makes life easier for the core reviewers that come along afterwards, and should make it easer to get merged17:30
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mdboothjohnthetubaguy: We're there :)17:30
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mdboothIt's good to go17:30
arnaud__tjones: I can bring up the patches, they are already pretty much written since icehouse17:31
arnaud__or maybe havana17:31
tjonesarnaud__:  lol.17:31
arnaud__it's not too big17:31
arnaud__fairly mechanical I would say17:31
tjoneshave you rebased on top of the refactor work ??17:32
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arnaud__I am not the author of the patches17:32
arnaud__just the spec17:32
tjonesah ok17:32
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arnaud__I doesn't impact vmware driver17:32
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tjonesok no worries then ;-)17:33
tjonesanything else on BP17:33
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tjones#topic bugs17:34
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tjonesim doing a quick triage17:35
tjonesthis one looks interesting17:35
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1337798 in nova "VMware: snapshot operation copies a live image" [Undecided,New]17:35
mdboothAh, yes17:35
* mdbooth had forgotten that one17:35
mdboothvuil: I replied, btw17:36
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mdboothI think you may have misread it17:36
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vuilah reading now.17:36
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mdboothvuil: My suspicion is aroused because we do:17:37
mdbooth        snapshot = self._create_vm_snapshot(instance, vm_ref)17:37
mdboothAnd the only other place the snapshot variable is used is when it's deleted17:38
mdboothIIRC there are some apis for streaming a snapshot, and it doesn't look like we're using them17:38
vuilyeah, the snapshot changes the vmdk file that is written to, making the original vmdk the read-only (frozen) data17:38
vuilwe copy that out to glance,17:39
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mdboothOk, so:17:39
mdbooth        dest_vmdk_file_path = ds_util.build_datastore_path(datastore_name,17:39
mdbooth                   "%s/%s.vmdk" % (self._tmp_folder, random_name))17:39
vuildeleting snapshot undoes the disk chain lengthening, restores file name , etc.17:39
mdboothThat's now the snapshot17:39
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vuilkey is vmdk_file_path_before_snapshot17:40
vuilprobably bad name, what it is saving is the path that will become the frozen disk after the snapshot17:40
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mdbooth                sourceName=vmdk_file_path_before_snapshot,17:40
mdboothYeah, that's deeply suspicious :)17:40
vuilit also happens to be the path of the disk that we write to again once the snapshot is deleted.17:40
mdboothIs that documented anywhere?17:41
mdboothAlso, what happens if you make 2 snapshots?17:41
mdboothThey can't both have the original uri17:41
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* mdbooth has seen vmdk filenames with lots of zeroes in them17:41
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vuilonly the first one does, the chain build from there. If we take two (which we are careful not to), the path is still valid and points to the first.17:42
vuilnot the first one17:42
mdboothAnyway, it was non-obvious so I opened that bug to ensure somebody looked17:43
vuilanyway, I now get your concern, we can sort this out offline to make sure we didn't miss anything.17:43
mdboothYou looked :)17:43
tjonesso the code works but is confusing?17:43
tjones*im confused*17:43
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mdboothMight be worth leaving the bug open to track adding a big comment17:43
tjonesok lets do that17:44
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tjonesi don't have any other bugs to bring up.  anyone else?17:44
* mdbooth doesn't have anything17:45
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tjonestopic #opendiscussion17:45
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tjonesi guess we don't want to ask for exception on any of the missed BP.  The only one i am wondering about is kiran's17:45
tjonesthoughts on that (or any of the others)?17:46
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mdboothtjones: Link?17:46
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tjoneshere is all of them17:48
arnaud__fiy: I sent an email to the ML about oslo.vmware and requirements. If anyone has a pov: , that would help17:48
mdbootharnaud__: Reading17:49
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mdboothfwiw, I only really read posts with [nova] or [vmware]17:49
* mdbooth can't handle the firehose17:50
arnaud__I forgot the vmware tag17:50
arnaud__I realized that just after sending17:50
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* mdbooth isn't familiar with project requirements in openstack, unfortunately17:52
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arnaud__I will ping openstack-qa to see if they are familiar with that17:53
tjonesarnaud__:  did you talk with dhellmann ?17:53
arnaud__he is suggesting to add retrying to requirements of icehouse17:53
arnaud__but that would mean repackaging for operators17:53
tjonessdague may have an idea17:54
arnaud__also, that would not fix the issue on the long run from pov17:54
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arnaud__anyway, I will let you know if I find a solution17:55
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tjonesok 5 more minutes - anyone have other stuff?17:56
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mdboothMy changes to qgerrit just got merged upstream17:57
mdboothSo if you pull that you can generate those dep tree views17:57
tjonesmdbooth:  cool!17:57
tjonesplease review oslo.vmware
tjonesand the other refactor patches starting with
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:58
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 16 17:58:33 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:58
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notmynameswift meeting time18:59
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notmyname#startmeeting swift19:00
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 16 19:00:23 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"19:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'19:00
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notmynameweekly swift team meeting time. thanks for coming. who's here?19:00
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peluse_I'm sorta here (in another meeting but can pay attention)19:01
TygerI'm lurking19:01
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notmynameagenda for today ^19:02
* notmyname refreshes and sees nothing else19:02
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notmynameok, so not a ton to cover, but some good stuff I think19:02
notmynamefirst up: in-person meeting19:03
notmyname#topic in-person meetup19:03
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peluse_somewhere cool19:03
notmynamepeluse_: so you're saying no AZ?19:03
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notmynamewe've had 2 community-wide in-person meetups. one in austin and one in denver19:03
peluse_heh, pretty hot here now... well, I'm in your neck of the woods today but still hot back at home19:03
peluse_San Diego?19:04
notmynameso let's look to the fall to see what's reasonable19:04
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notmynamefirst, before figuring out the location (which is really up to who's paying for it ;-), let's talk dates19:04
notmynamethe paris summit is the first week of november19:05
notmynamesome of us, but not all, will be going. both for budgeting and for family reasons, we probably shouldn't have another big travel thing the week before19:05
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notmynameand after that gets really tricky with US thanksgiving and christmas plans that people have19:05
peluse_maybe Oct sometime19:06
notmynamewhich means that we should do it before november19:06
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notmynameI suggest something like the first week of october or the last of september19:06
* portante likes that19:06
peluse_personally would prefer early Oct19:07
peluse_but late Sep works too19:07
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peluse_actually Oct is much better (new quarter)19:07
notmynamepeluse_: like the week of september 29?19:07
notmynameah, ok19:07
notmyname(big company budgeting)19:07
notmynamethat would eg be the week of october 619:08
peluse_to both comments19:08
acolesend of FY for us ;)19:08
notmynameacoles: oct?19:08
notmynameacoles: or sept?19:08
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acolesoct. but don't worry about that19:08
notmynameso if it were the week of october 6, that gives 3 weeks at home, then paris19:08
notmynamekinda tight. we couldn't do it later19:08
peluse_yeah, I'm OK with end of Sep too19:09
notmynameI think I'd prefer week of sept 29, and fall back to week of oct 6 if that doesn't work19:09
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peluse_or wed Oct 119:09
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notmynameya, 2nd half of that week is fine19:10
notmynamethe other question is about how many days. austin was 3 days and denver was 4. what are your thoughts?19:10
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mattoliverau*cough* should have another in Jan/Feb around LCA in Oz *cough19:11
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tdasilvai wasn't in austin, but 4 days in denver felt just about right19:11
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portante4 days in denver seemed to work well19:11
acolesagree. 4 was good19:11
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notmynamemattoliverau: if my LCA talk gets accepted, let's do a BoF there :-)19:12
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mattoliveraunotmyname: done :)19:12
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notmynameanyone opposed to a 4 day meetup and would prefer something else?19:12
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notmynameelambert: just talking about an in-person meetup in the fall19:13
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* elambert nods19:13
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notmynameFWIW, I've had one offer for a sponsor that is in the US northeast, so that looks to be a more likely location now. I know that factors in to dates19:14
peluse_ditt on 419:14
peluse_ditto that is19:14
notmyname(and it makes it easier for acoles and team to attend!)19:14
peluse_back east would be a nice change too19:14
elambertnotmyname: if that falls through we might be able to sponser19:14
notmynamewho knows, maybe even gvernik could drop in from Haifa :-)19:15
notmynameelambert: thanks19:15
gvernikmay be :)19:15
notmynameok, so here's what I'm hearing: shoot for a 4-day meetup in the US northeast during the week of september 29. if that week doesn't work, fall back to the next week19:16
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notmynamemoving on then19:17
notmyname#topic logged user-agent string19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "logged user-agent string (Meeting topic: swift)"19:17
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notmynamethat patch proposes making the user agent string saner (IMO)19:17
notmynamebut it changes existing log message values19:17
notmynameI know of no application that will be impacted, but I wanted to bring it up here19:18
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notmynameare there any applications that you know of that rely on specific bytes in the logged user-agent string for the storage node logs19:19
peluse_I'm of the general opinion that if there's no good reason to change it then I wouldn't but not so passionate about that position that I'd argue this specific one19:19
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notmynamepeluse_: I actually have a toy application that does look at the user agent, and this patch makes my app simpler. :-)19:20
creihtpeluse_: I hear that it is the biggest thing since policies! :)19:20
peluse_lets do it then!! :)19:20
notmyname(seeing as not much has landed, it probably is!)19:20
notmynameanyone else feel more strongly that peluse_ on this patch that it's not broken so don't fix it?19:21
* notmyname feels it's slightly scratched but not broken and it's a low-impact "fix"19:22
* peluse_ can buy into that19:22
notmynamealso clearly the most important patch we have since we've talked about it for so long ;-)19:22
peluse_slow news day I guess19:22
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notmynameok, let's MERGE IT!19:23
TygerIt's the most controversial patsh nobody cares about. I'm indifferent on it too and I wrote it.19:23
mattoliverauHaving network issues on my phone :( sorry for slow replies19:23
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notmynameok, I approved it. if you hate it, you have about 2 hours to stop it before jenkins finishes19:23
notmyname#topic review reviews19:24
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creihtthat's a bit optimistic19:24
* notmyname thinks himself clever19:24
notmynamecreiht: :-)19:24
notmynameok, let's highlight a few of these19:24
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notmynamefirst up, meta-wise, this hasn't changed much since last week. which is kinda bad since not much has actually merged. review more!19:25
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notmynameacoles: anything blocking the keystone v3 stuff aside from needing a final reviewer?19:25
acolesi have one +2 on the client patch19:25
acoles thanks cschwede19:26
acolesand i don't think much has happened on the ACL side since clayg took a look19:26
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notmynamecan we get a volunteer to review the client one?
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notmynamecreiht: torgomatic: portante: :-) ?19:27
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portanteokay, I'll volunteer19:28
* torgomatic has no keystone19:28
notmynameportante: thanks!19:28
peluse_wrt other reviews, I'd like to see the current rev of the EC user docs land on feature/ec sooner than later so others can contribute in smaller separate patches19:28
notmynamepeluse_: link19:28
acolesportante: thanks19:28
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notmynamepeluse_: I'll take that19:29
notmynameI'll also take the final review on the eventlet case-changing behavior
acolespeluse_: i'll try to take a look tomorrow19:30
notmynamecreiht: but you're more of an eventlet expert than me, so I'd love your view, if you have the time19:30
peluse_acoles:  thanks.  note the EC spec is in swift-specs for review as well (but of course still under construction as well)19:30
acolespeluse_: yes, seen that19:30
peluse_EC spec: (other link was user docs)19:30
notmynameya, -specs. we gotta come back to that topic in a moment19:30
notmynamecan anyone take the final review on the list-endpoints middleware?
notmynameacoles: ^?19:31
tdasilvapeluse_: how are patches landing in feature/ec in regards to reviewers? is it as strict as master?19:31
peluse_same process, yes19:32
acolesnotmyname: ok, tomorrow19:32
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notmynametdasilva: not quite as strict, but still should be working code19:32
notmynameacoles: thanks19:32
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notmynameok, I wanted to bring up one other patch19:32
tdasilvapeluse_: ok, was just wondering in terms of the documentation..i guess it should definetely not take too long to land and be more of a WIP19:32
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notmynametdasilva: right19:33
peluse_notmyname:  and to expand on that (and level set) the 'not quite as strict' means that we can build things up in multiple patches easier - still needs solid test code, reviews, etc, agreed?19:33
notmynamepeluse_: 100% agreed19:33
peluse_tdasilva:  yeah, wanted the docs to land often so we don't have one long patch like with pokicies.  easier to manage and get more people to contribute19:33
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tdasilvapeluse_: agreed19:34
notmynameso for the account cache patch from gvernik19:34
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notmynameI'm a little concerned by it, but I haven't fully looked at it yet19:34
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* peluse_ hasn't reviewed it...19:35
gverniknotmyname: what is the concern with it?19:35
notmynamewhen I glanced at it this morning, it looks liek the question is if it's fixing something that's broken or something that is behaving as intended19:35
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notmynamegvernik: so I'm certainly not against it yet, but I have a concern. I haven't reviewed it yet19:36
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notmynameso I don't have a particular question about it, I think. just wanted to bring some attention to it19:36
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tdasilvahaven't reviewed it, but it seems like the behavior described on the commit message is definetely broken19:36
notmynameI'd especially like the view of those runnign big clusters on it. ie the impact of cache-invalidation19:36
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gvernikthe problem was that it possible to create many containers and bypass the max container per account...this is how i found this19:37
notmynameyes, and I'm not sure that's actually broken. ie soft limits, like with quotas, not hard limits that require strong consistency19:37
notmynames/quotas/our implementation of quotas/19:38
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gverniki see the point19:38
notmynamegvernik: yes, so eg you can only do that for 30 seconds or until the cached value times out. so ya you can go over, just not for ever19:38
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peluse_"eventual limitations"19:39
notmynamethat's my concern, and that should be addressed in reviews, not necessarily here. but since it already has 1 +2, I wanted to bring it up19:39
notmynamegvernik: I just left a quick -1 note on it19:40
notmynamegvernik: and all that ^^ is the context ;-)19:40
notmynameI think that's all I wanted to cover for patches (reviewing reviews)19:41
notmynamenow, let's talk specs19:41
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notmyname#topic swift-specs19:41
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notmynameso we've had a few proposed19:42
notmynameand none merged19:42
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notmynameand they're kinda just sitting there19:42
notmynamewhich seems the worst of both worlds19:42
peluse_wrt the spec is the expectation that its complete before it gets merged?19:42
notmynameso the other day I was talking with torgomatic over lunch and he had IMo a pretty good idea: land them fast, but keep a one-line "status" at the top. something indicating if they are done or not19:43
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peluse_yup, that what I did in the EC spec - big WIP at the top19:43
notmynamepeluse_: ya. seems people want it to be done before looking at it, but it can't get there until people look at it19:43
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notmynameand the historic connotation of WIP in gerrit is negative (ie not worth my time to review) people don't look at it19:43
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notmynameso, what do you think?19:43
peluse_I think merge w/status for the same reason as the EC user doc should land - avoid one really long patch chain19:44
peluse_and those working on the thing in question should be looking at it regarldess of WIP or not19:44
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notmynamehow can we differentiate between "this is a spec we think is a good idea" vs "this is a spec of something describing the way it should be or was actually done"19:44
notmynamepeluse_: yes, exactly19:44
peluse_status comment at the top of the doc19:44
notmynamepeluse_: my point is how do we track that without the specific phrase "work in progress" since that carries baggage19:45
peluse_yeah, we can use a different phrase19:45
notmynameok, proposal: at the top of a doc: "status: XXX" where XXX is one of ... well that's kinda the question :-)19:46
peluse_so not use the gerrit WIP, just merge and have the top of the doc explain what stage its in19:46
creihtnotmyname: maybe you should start a spec19:46
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acolesnotmyname: can we have an 'approved' directory and move spec to a 'done' directory when code lands?19:46
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notmyname /slap creiht (
peluse_acoles:  i like that19:47
creihtI kind of prefer that specs only land when they are approved19:47
creihtthere shouldn't be a WIP19:47
notmynameacoles: I like that19:47
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creihtit should be submitted19:47
creihtpeople discuss19:47
notmynamecreiht: what about different "approved" and not folders?19:47
creihtgets refined and try again19:47
peluse_creiht:  but then we can use gerrit to collaborate on the construction of the spec right?19:47
creihtpeluse_: right19:47
notmynamecreiht: makes sense, but we've got 4 now that have been sitting around for weeks and mattoliverau is the only one to do anything on them19:48
creihtI just don't want to get overcomplicated, and suddenly we have jira implemented as a group of text files in a git repo :)19:48
notmynamethanks mattoliverau!19:48
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peluse_I kidna like having the spec under version control during construction, think there's some benefit there.  the separeaet dirs would make it super clear though don't you think?19:48
peluse_crc32:  :)19:48
peluse_typo, sorry19:49
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notmynamecreiht: right. I think that's a valid concern. -specs are for devs, so let's not try to make it some big project management tool19:49
creihtgotta run sorry19:49
notmynamecreiht: so the question to you is, what would make it easier for you to review?19:49
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notmynamereally, to everyone19:49
mattoliverauHappy to do it, I find them interesting and exciting pieces of work :)19:49
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creihtwell I've just been a bit busy19:50
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notmynamewhat's needed to make them something useful to the devs?19:50
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creihtnotmyname: I think it is too early to try to make change19:50
creihtit will take time for everyone to adapt19:50
creihtso give it a bit longer19:50
notmyname:-) ok19:50
creihtand continue to remind others :)19:50
creihtthat's at least my opinions19:50
creihtreally got to go now :)19:51
acolesso are we agreed that approving/landing a spec means 'now go ahead and write the code' not ' the code is all done'?19:51
notmynamehay, everyone, go review specs! that's why I put it at the top of the review dashboard! ;-)19:51
notmynameacoles: yes, IMo that's absolutely true. -specs are for _limited_ up front design. not for code docs19:51
peluse_its a tool to organize our thoughts and collaborate on design19:52
notmynamelaunchpad is for project managers. docs are for users. specs are to get something done as devs19:52
notmynamepeluse_: ya, well said19:52
acolesand the only problem is if -specs appear to be like documentation of what _has_ been done19:52
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notmynameI don't think we're there yet19:53
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notmynameso are we agreed that we should keep on for now and not try to fix something we haven't even fully tested yet?19:54
notmynameor do we need to make changes?19:54
tdasilvastill unclear to me when specs would actually land...just before coding starts? or while coding is ongoing but we have a good enough idea of what the design looks like??19:54
peluse_well, the EC spec for one isn't done and its proposed....19:55
peluse_so it either continues as a long WIP chain or we land it with something in the doc, like it is now, that describes its state19:55
notmynametdasilva: both, IMO. and they could be updated while the code is being written19:55
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peluse_and its supporting code development as we speak :)19:56
acolestdasilva: my take was that they can run in parallel, but if your spec is approvedyou have more right to expect code reviews.19:56
tdasilvaok...because in the EC case, coding is already on-going but I assume the design might still be a bit "fluid"19:56
peluse_for sure!19:56
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peluse_so personally I'd like to see it land so others can contribute commits/content without always pushing on my patch...19:57
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* peluse_ thinks he's probably said that enough already though :)19:57
mattoliverauI agree, there is nothing stopping development in WIP.19:57
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notmynameso I think we all agree we don't really know what it looks like and we're still figuring it out. basically, "whatever works"?19:58
tdasilvasounds good to me...19:58
tdasilvanotmyname: yeah19:58
notmynameand in the short term, go review existing proposed specs and let's see what happens19:58
notmynamesound good?19:58
notmynameacoles: peluse_: sound good to you?19:59
notmynametorgomatic: ?19:59
notmynameoh, and wow. we got right up to the time19:59
notmynamewhat a fun meeting :-)19:59
* notmyname sees torgomatic frowning after I wrote that20:00
mattoliverauNice work everyone!20:00
peluse_cool, thanks!20:00
notmynamethanks for coming20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed Jul 16 20:00:20 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)20:00
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zaneb#startmeeting heat20:01
openstackMeeting started Wed Jul 16 20:01:12 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is zaneb. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: heat)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'heat'20:01
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zanebstill accepting volunteers to chair, btw20:01
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zaneb#topic roll call20:01
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zaneb#topic Review action items from last meeting20:03
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stevebakerhere, but completely out of touch20:03
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zanebshardy, jasond and randallburt to discuss pluggability of WaitCondition implementations20:03
zanebwe had a discussion on the mailing list20:03
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zanebI don't know that it resulted in any conclusion20:04
jasondunfortunately randallburt is out20:04
shardyzaneb: my understanding was that for now jasond and I would align the properties and we'd possibly do the pluggable transports thing later20:04
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shardygiven that there wasn't clear consensus over the deployer choosing one implementation in all situations20:04
zaneb#topic Adding items to the agenda20:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding items to the agenda (Meeting topic: heat)"20:05
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zanebanybody got something to add to the agenda?20:05
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skraynevmay be problem with constraint validation :)20:06
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skraynevor I may ask it later20:06
zaneb#topic Juno-2 release20:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-2 release (Meeting topic: heat)"20:06
zanebthe J-2 milestone is next week20:07
zanebunfortunately I am away from tomorrow until Tuesday20:07
zanebso I need a volunteer that russellb can pester about it20:07
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shardyzaneb: I'm happy to do it, unless anyone else is keen20:07
zanebthe process is a lot simpler than it used to be20:07
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russellbthe task is to make sure the juno-2 roadmap in launchpad is beated down until everything that's left is implemented20:08
zanebrussellb: shardy can be your victim :)20:08
zanebI'll try to get online at some point20:08
stevebakerrussellb: are you ttx?20:08
russellbfor juno-2, yes20:08
zanebbut I'll be travelling on Tuesday, so availability is uncertain20:08
zanebafaik there is nothing urgent, anyway20:09
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zanebstuff either makes it or it doesn't20:09
zanebwhich brings me to...20:09
russellbwould like to aim for tuesday then20:09
zaneb#topic Juno-2 blueprints20:09
russellband tag then unless there's something you really want to wait for20:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-2 blueprints (Meeting topic: heat)"20:09
zanebdamn, too slow20:10
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zanebif you have a blueprint on this list, please update its status20:10
zanebI updated randallburt's for him yesterday20:10
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zanebI'm bumping mine to j-3 right now :/20:11
zanebwe also have three High priority bugs not assigned20:11
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shardyAnyone know how to run the docs job for contrib resources locally?20:12
zanebbug #1299259 FloatingIP needs a hidden dependency on Routers20:12
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1299259 in heat "FloatingIP needs a hidden dependency on Routers" [High,Triaged]
shardyI need to fix that for my Ironic plugins...20:12
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ryansbshardy: I don't, but if you'd like to teach me I can write it up20:12
zanebstevebaker: any interest in grabbing that one?20:12
stevebakerzaneb: sure20:12
shardyryansb: thanks, I'll trawl the logs and work out how to do it ;)20:13
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zanebthanks stevebaker20:13
zanebbug  #1302578 Required credentials are missing when heat-engine calls heatclient operations20:13
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1302578 in heat "Required credentials are missing when heat-engine calls heatclient operations" [High,Triaged]
stevebakerI'll add client-plugins to j-2 and give it a push for the rest of this week20:14
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shardyWe've not really made any progress on fixing abandon/adopt - anyone know if vijendar is working on any of the problems?20:14
stevebakershardy: cd docs ; make clean html20:15
vijendarshardy: I have not started working on that20:15
vijendarshardy: I will start on that next week20:15
zanebthis one (#1302578) is auth + software config... I'll let stevebaker & shardy fight over it ;)20:15
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stevebakerits his fault!20:15
stevebaker(haven't seen it yet)20:16
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zanebstevebaker: and yet you commented on it extensively ;)20:16
zanebbug #1301486 Stack update on "OS::Nova::Server" resource fails due instance port still in use20:16
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1301486 in heat "Stack update on "OS::Nova::Server" resource fails due instance port still in use" [High,Triaged]
zanebthis is waiting on a fix in nova20:16
stevebakeroh, that20:16
zanebso I will bump to j-320:16
skraynevzaneb: wait solution from nova20:17
shardyugh, standalone mode :(20:17
stevebakershardy: I have an idea, should be reasonably easy20:17
skraynevzaneb: +1 for moving to j-320:17
zanebshardy: is it really High priority then?20:17
shardystevebaker: Ok, cool, let me know if there's anything I can help with20:17
shardyzaneb: not IMO, no20:17
shardy(disclaimer, I've never used standalone mode..)20:18
zanebok, dropped to medium20:18
zanebthat solves that problem ;)20:18
shardyI'll propose a fix for the stack domain project abandon thing tomorrow20:18
zanebif anyone has a blueprint they expect to get merged before Tuesday and it is *not* in the list, please let me know *today* after the meeting20:19
shardybut that doesn't fix the adopt part of it ref bug #130131420:19
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1301314 in heat "Abandon/adopt don't consider project" [Medium,Triaged]
shardyzaneb: The native waitcondition series, if we manage to get the rest of the reviews done20:19
shardyI guess I'll move it back if the reviews happen in time20:20
zanebshardy: ok, I'll let you target it and give it a priority20:20
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shardyzaneb: Ok, thanks20:20
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zaneb#topic Gap analysis20:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Gap analysis (Meeting topic: heat)"20:21
zanebthe TC did the gap analysis yesterday20:21
zanebresults here:20:22
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zaneboverall, we are in excellent shape20:22
zanebtl;dr "more tests"20:22
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zanebsome of which are already in progress20:23
shardyzaneb: easy to say but the experience of actually getting stuff into tempest is not good :(20:23
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zanebI made that point in the etherpad20:23
stevebakerwe should keep an eye on efforts to allow our tempest tests to live in the heat tree20:24
shardystevebaker: +100020:24
zanebapparently there was a ML thread about maybe moving the tests out into individual projects in the medium term20:24
zanebI would support that20:24
shardyIMO that makes far more sense, at least then we'd have some control over the review wait20:24
jpeeleryes, good stuff20:25
zanebyep, but I don't think that is going to happen in the short term20:25
stevebakerhaving tests closer to the code would probably lead to more contributions too20:25
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shardye.g we've just been bitten my a volume attachment regression for a second time because it's taken 4 months to get my test not merged20:25
shardystevebaker: +120:25
zanebanyway, I have to create a plan for closing the gaps20:26
zanebI'll certainly mention the issue there20:26
skraynevstevebaker: what about scenario tests? I see, that autoscaling test is still skipped :(20:26
zaneb#action zaneb create plan for issues identified in gap analysis20:26
zanebthere was also one minor housekeeping thing - add the mission statement to the governance repo20:26
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zanebthat should be a fun review20:27
stevebakerskraynev: I have a change to unskip it, but I need to check how working it is currently
skraynevstevebaker: ok, thx20:28
zaneb#topic Stevedore for resource plugins20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Stevedore for resource plugins (Meeting topic: heat)"20:29
zanebasalkeld is not about so there's probably no point having this discussion today20:29
stevebakerI haven't read the ml thread since I replied20:30
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zanebI was happy with the compromise where we used Stevedore Hooks instead of Extensions20:31
zanebbut it's not clear that we reached a consensus on that20:31
stevebakeris there a patch?20:31
zanebthere was before the discussion already, and it has not (yet) changed as a result20:31
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zaneblast comment was "Zane, you must have a really sucky editor if this is hard:-O"20:33
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zaneboddly enough it was him who convinced me to switch to vim20:34
zanebI never did learn anything about vim plugins though20:34
zanebthe packaging was too hard to figure out...20:34
zaneb#topic Critical issues sync20:34
*** openstack changes topic to "Critical issues sync (Meeting topic: heat)"20:34
zanebwho has critical issues?20:35
skraynevmay I ?20:35
zanebyou may :)20:35
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skraynevwe already have patch about related problem with validation , when one resource has dependence from other one which is not created too20:36
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skraynevthis fix works only for basic constraints. If I try to use custom constraint it raises error StackValidationFailed: Property error : port1: network Error validating value u'None': Unable to find network with name 'None'20:37
zanebimo we really need to split validation that can be done statically out from validation that can only be done at create time20:38
zaneband give them different names20:38
zanebit's incredibly confusing atm20:38
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stevebakerwe need to do something. Its silly that we're validating things which are not there20:38
zaneband this was a mistake we've been making continuously for 2 years already20:38
skraynevso it should be two different validations (before creating and during creating), right?20:40
zanebvalidate_structure and validate_data, or something20:41
skraynevshould current fix be rejected?20:41
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skraynevand should be created BP for this or will be enough bug?20:42
zanebI don't think the fix should be rejected20:42
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zaneba bp would be nice; I'd say no spec required at this stage though20:42
shardyzaneb: so we're not mandating specs for all new features then?20:43
* shardy wasn't sure20:43
skraynevok, and what about custom constraints ?20:43
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zanebthink of specs as replacing the link to the wiki in the old system20:44
shardyzaneb: Ok, thanks20:44
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zanebthey don't replace blueprints, they're there for when you need more info than fits in launchpad comfortably20:44
skraynevshould fix for them be add in existing patch or we create one more?20:44
zanebor when it needs sider discussion20:44
stevebakerzaneb: if we create a spec, do we still create the bp in lp?20:45
shardyzaneb: Ok, cool, I just wasn't sure if they were now a neccary precursor to a BP20:45
shardygood to know they're not for simple BP's :)20:45
shardynecessary even20:45
zanebstevebaker: yes20:45
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zanebthere was a plan at one point to create the bps in launchpad from the specs using a script20:45
zanebbut that doesn't appear to be happening any time soon20:45
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zanebin any event, every approved spec will need a blueprint20:46
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zanebso just create one20:46
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andrearosa_homeplease put as much information as you can in the BP, even if it's simple for newcomers is a good starting point for understanding the context20:46
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zanebskraynev: in the same patch or same series is fine.20:47
skraynevzaneb: got it, thx :)20:47
zanebskraynev: I'm surprised custom constraints are failing though, given that validate_constraints() is not being called at all20:47
* zaneb shrugs20:48
zaneb#topic open discussion20:48
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: heat)"20:48
zanebanything else before we wrap up?20:48
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zanebthanks everyone!20:50
skraynevzaneb: I am not sure, that it so clear. Just got this error, when was testing fix. need more digging to understand root of problem20:50
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