Thursday, 2014-07-17

DaisyHello, who is around for I18n meeting?00:00
ujucyes ;)00:00
DaisyHi, ujuc00:00
DaisyThank you for attending.00:00
ujucHi, Daisy :))00:00
epicoHi, Daisy :)00:00
Daisy#startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting00:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 17 00:01:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Daisy. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.00:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting'00:01
DaisyGood morning, epico00:01
ujucHi, epico :)00:01
DaisyIt looks like we don't have attendees from America00:01
epicoGood morning, Daisy.00:01
epicoHi, ujuc00:01
DaisySo I'm considering to use only 1 time slot for our meeting.00:01
DaisyThen we could have a whole team meeting, not only Asia. :)00:02
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ujuco~ ho00:02
DaisyLet's start.00:03
Daisy#topic Design of translators contribution scoring system00:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Design of translators contribution scoring system (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)"00:03
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DaisySo in order to promote translators contribution, I want to design a translation scoring system.00:03
Daisytranslate an item +100:04
Daisyreview an item +100:04
Daisygive a suggestion +100:04
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DaisyThe scores could be reviewed by person, company and national.00:04
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DaisyContributions could be ranked by person, company and national.00:05
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DaisyThere are different weights for contributions in different periods00:06
DaisyFor example, the weight of contributions in the latest month is 1.100:06
Daisythe weight of contributions in the last 3 month is 100:07
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Daisythe weight of contributions before the last 3 month is 0.900:07
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ujuctranslate item is - transalte document all? chapt?00:07
Daisyone string00:08
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ujucah :)00:08
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ujuctransifex is supo00:09
ujuctrasifex is support???00:09
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DaisyI need API support from translation tools.00:09
DaisyNo, transifex doesn't support.00:09
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ujucum :|00:10
DaisyTranslation tool should support API to get the contributions of each contributor.00:10
DaisyThen we could make a program of our own scoring system.00:10
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DaisyI hope Zanata or Pootle could support it.00:10
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ujuc:) good (^_^)b00:11
DaisyDo you have any concerns  or suggestions to this scoring system?00:11
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ujuchigh score is reward(?) ??00:12
DaisyIf your rank is top, it's a kind of recognition.00:13
DaisyNo real reward.00:13
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ujuc I hope sharing the Wiki or etherpad.00:15
ujucthis topic :)00:15
DaisyNice suggestion.00:15
DaisyI could create an etherpad.00:15
DaisyWe could all contribute to the design.00:15
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Daisy#action Daisy to input the scoring system design to the etherpad.00:16
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Daisylet's move forward.00:16
Daisy#Documents' categorization00:16
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DaisyIn the last meeting, Fdot and I planned to categorize documents, in order to provide information for translation teams to select top priority documents.00:17
DaisyThere is a draft design now.00:17
DaisyI'm going to create a table.00:17
DaisyThe row titles are the changes of documents: frequently change, a few change, seldom change00:19
DaisyThe column titles are the audience of documents: end user, admin, developer00:19
DaisyThen put documents into cells.00:19
DaisyThat table may help translators to select documents for translation.00:20
ujuceach documents... table?00:20
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epicoguess one table and documents to be filled?00:21
DaisyThe goal is to categorize documents00:21
epicoand document size?00:22
DaisyOne table with rows and columns00:22
DaisyRow is: frequently change, a few change, seldom change00:22
DaisyColumn is for end user, for admin, for developer00:22
DaisyThen a document could be put into a cell.00:23
DaisyLike, operation guide is for admin and frequently changed.00:23
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DaisySize may be a dimension.00:23
DaisyAnd version could be another dimension too.00:24
DaisyDocuments have a lot of versions.00:24
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epicoor just put document size together with document name.00:25
DaisySo I also need to consider the size and versions.00:25
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Daisy_Sorry, connection just broken.00:27
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Daisy_I'm back.00:27
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Daisy_Any other suggestions?00:27
Daisy_Next topic00:27
Daisy_#topic New time slot for the second IRC meeting every month00:28
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Daisy_We discussed this at the beginning.00:28
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Daisy_I'm considering to use only 1 time slot for i18n meetings.00:28
Daisy_#action Daisy to send to ML to ask if the second time slot could be removed and use only 1 time slot.00:29
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Daisy_#topic Open discussion00:29
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Daisy_ujuc: since the Korean API document have been translated, let's work together to have it published.00:30
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Daisy_I think, you only need to provide the main page.00:30
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ujucweekend doing..00:31
DaisyYou had sent me a main page before.00:31
DaisyOK. Just revise it.00:31
ujucyeap :)00:31
DaisyI will work with you together to have Chinese document main page. :)00:31
ujucah ~~ :))00:31
Daisyany other topics to discuss?00:32
ujucno, me. :)00:32
Daisyhow about you, epico?00:32
epiconot from me.00:32
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DaisyThank you, guys.00:33
DaisyWe have a short meeting.00:33
DaisyThank you for attending this early meeting.00:33
DaisyHope you have a nice day.00:33
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"00:33
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 17 00:33:35 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)00:33
openstackMinutes (text):
ujuchave a nice day :), Daisy and epico :)00:33
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epicoujuc, you, too00:36
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jorgemhello everyone13:59
jorgem#startmeeting neutron lbaas14:00
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 17 14:00:06 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jorgem. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.14:00
TrevorV_\o\   /o/14:00
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openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas'14:00
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sballe_jorgem, I would like to add one item to the ageand. We talked about enhancing the existing reference driver for juno. Is that still in the plans?14:00
jorgemDoes anyone have anything they want to add to the agenda?14:00
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sballe_jorgem, lol14:01
blogansballe_: I am currently doing this14:01
sballe_blogan, oh fantastic!14:01
jorgemsballe_: yes phil and doug started that I believe14:02
blogansballe_: you mean the reference implemenatation to work with the new api right?14:02
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jorgemsballe_: Would you still like me to add that to the agenda?14:03
sballe_blogan, I was also wondering if we were adding any other functionaltiy. At some poitn we had talked about adding HA just to make it a little moe usable before we have Octavia and I am not sure what the edn conclusion ended up being14:03
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sballe_jorgem, no. I'll follow up with blogan14:03
jorgemsballe_: I don't think HA was part of that14:03
jorgemsballe_: Just API functionality was going to be implemented14:03
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jorgemAnyone else have agenda items they would like added?14:04
blogansballe_: no that woudl require way too much time and we need to get this out asap, so I'm just focusing on it being able to do current features14:04
sballe_jorgem, ok fair enough.14:04
jorgemHere is the current agenda:14:04
jorgem•Review Updates14:04
jorgem•Discuss blockers and how to mitigate14:04
jorgem◦Juno release coming quickly!14:04
jorgem•Discuss reference implementation14:04
sbalukoff1It was my understanding that the reference implementation needed to do things like L7 and TLS so that these features could be adopted. But HA was not part of this, as it doesn't affect the user API.14:04
jorgemsbalukoff1: Correct.14:04
blogansbalukoff1: correct but I won't be implementing TLS or L7 this time, that should be left to the TLS and L7 blueprints to implement14:05
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sballe_sbalukoff1, ok good enough for me. No HA.14:05
vjayjorgem: TLS: Closing on SubjectAltName and TLS: Conflict Resolution during SNI14:05
jorgemOkay, well I think agenda is set then. Let's continue with this topic.14:05
vjayi want both of them to be added14:05
jorgem#topic Discuss reference implementation14:05
sbalukoffblogan: True.14:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss reference implementation (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:05
dougwigwe're actually removing some features (the agent, which hurts scalability), and adding others (tls/l7, if/when those features hit), since no feature/api can be released with an implementation of some kind.14:05
vjayapologies for the late addition14:06
dougwig /with/without/14:06
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ctraceyHi all14:06
jorgemvjay: no worries I got it14:06
blogandougwig: this is true, hopefully people understand that this reference implementation version is only meant for devstack deployments and testing14:06
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sbalukoffblogan: Well, *we* understand that. But I'm not sure it's possible to telegraph that message to the rest of the OpenStack community. :P14:07
jorgemdougwig: Eventually we were aiming to make Octavia the reference implementation once  it becomes operator grade I believe?14:07
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sballe_blogan, I agree. We had just had some discussion in the past around this and I just wanted us to be on the same page.14:07
ctraceyOf you build it someone will put it into "prod"14:07
xgermansbalukoff +1 -- wonder when we get asked in the irc about scalability bugs14:08
dougwigyes, and yes, but blogan's plan, which i 100% agree with, is that we have to get *something* in in order to ship any of this, or we risk getting punted out of juno entirely.14:08
sbalukoffxgerman: Haha!14:08
sballe_The issue is that today there is no Neutron LBaaS that can used in production/14:08
xgermanwell, if we omit the hardware appliances...14:09
bloganapparently the agent haproxy is being used in production somewhere14:09
sballe_which is fine. We just need to make sure people understand that14:09
dougwigsballe_: correction, there is no fully open-source neutron lbaas that can be used in production.14:09
ctraceysballe_: yet folks are doing just that.14:09
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dougwigwhich is arguably true of neutron itself right now.14:09
sbalukoffdougwig: +114:09
sballe_dougwig, Yes thanks for corecting me :)14:09
blogandougwig is good at correcting people14:09
sballe_dougwig, our public cloud is using Neutron in production14:10
xgermanso we need to add some startup message to the os driver "Don't use that in production"14:10
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bloganxgerman: or just inject a header14:10
ctraceydougwig: as is our private cloud14:10
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sballe_ctracey, I agree with you. People will be using it in production but at their own risk14:10
dougwigwith stock ml2 ova?14:10
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dougwigauto-correct and openstack acronyms do not get along.  :)14:11
jorgemWhat's the status on the reference implementation assuming the features we want are exposed?14:11
sballe_dougwig, We have our own SDN plugin14:11
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jorgemblogan: ? ptoohill ?14:11
xgermandougwig, in Atalnta we had like three ralks on nhow to make Neutron work -- that's just not the scope of this meeting ;-)14:11
ptoohillits in progress atm14:11
rm_workdougwig: Rackspace has our own OVS plugin (Quark, I believe) but it is fully open source IIRC :P14:12
dougwigwell, neither is the ref implementation, so...  :-)14:12
ptoohillIll be working on some tests for the driver itself, while blogan will be updating managers14:12
bloganjorgem: its close to being in a reviewable state, large effort still required on tests, stats and health monitoring14:12
jorgemblogan: Okay cool. No blockers though right?14:12
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ptoohillNo blockers i can think of at this point jorgem14:13
jorgemSpeaking of blockers let's move to that topic14:14
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jorgem#topic Discuss blockers and mitigation tactics14:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Discuss blockers and mitigation tactics (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:14
jorgemSo, Juno is coming up quite quickly14:14
ctraceyI'm with blogan...very close to review14:14
* TrevorV_ thinks jorgem brought that up just to get a good segue14:15
ctraceyFor the CLI bits14:15
sballe_jorgem, juno-2 right?14:15
blogana big blocker is getting this reference implementation done because the v2 APi won't get merged until it has a reference implementation workign with it14:15
jorgemWell, what is the absolute last day we can get code merged?14:15
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jorgemI'm a little confused on the cycles14:15
bloganfor Juno-2, I think its Monday14:15
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xgermannext week, Monday?14:16
bloganmaybe thats when the code has to be in for review14:16
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jorgem1) Is sept. 18th the absolute last day?14:17
ptoohillthought that was for the bps, isnt the 20th last day for BP approval?14:17
jorgemI just want us all to be on the same page14:17
sballe_I talked to mestery yesterday and he said he was going to be busy Mon, Tues and Wed of next week with Juno-2 related task14:17
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ptoohillwhich, if so, is a big blocker for TLS stuff if we cant get those approved in time. Im hoping im just misunderstanding the due dates14:18
bloganhey i know people are waiting on the reference implementation, but what can be done in the meantime to speed up everything thats waiting on this?14:19
xgermanjorgem can you check with mestery on dates and update us on the ML?14:19
jorgemxgerman: lol sure14:19
jorgem#action jorgem to check on Neutron due dates14:20
jorgemTo blogans question anything else that can be worked on at the moment?14:20
ctraceyblogan: let's iterate closer over the next few days. I'd be happy to help bang this out.14:20
jorgemI'm starting to feel that we won't get work completed in time14:20
bloganone thing people can do is make sure they're able to deploy the new code, and actually make requests to the API.  I'm sure I've made some mistakes on that so just doing that would be great.  Plus getting a good understanding of the code woudl be beneficial for everyone.14:21
bloganctracey: sure whenever you got time14:21
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xgermanalso I saw the tempest test not being reviewed -- can we get more eyes on that?14:21
bloganxgerman: link?14:22
jorgem#action: ctracey and blogan to work closely over the next few days14:22
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dougwigif you have trouble deploying the code, hit us up on the lbaas channel.14:22
ctraceyCan free up most of today and probably all of tomorrow.14:22
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sbalukoffI think this list is still being maintained listing all the gerrit stuff that concerns Neutron LBaaS:
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xgermanyep, that's where I ran across that14:23
samuelbercovici1can someone point to the patch of tempest test?14:23
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blogansbalukoff: thanks that has the tempest link14:23
ptoohillthanks for keeping this updated dougwig14:24
xgermanwe should link that form our main wiki14:24
sbalukoffYes, thanks dougwig!14:24
sballe_ctracey, Did you add your review to the page?14:24
dougwigxgerman: it is linked14:24
jorgemDoes anyone want to volunteer on the tempest stuff?14:24
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xgermanI will stop using browser history then14:24
bloganjorgem: mlavalle is working on that14:25
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bloganbut yes more people to review it14:25
jorgemblogan: Correct but we need eyes reviewing it I believe14:25
xgermanI will reach out to HP QA14:25
dougwigi've looked at the tempest review, but it is a WIP14:25
samuelbercovici1jorgem: evish, evgeny and myslef are on this chat together via my nick. evgeny will review14:25
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jorgemsamuelbercovici: awesome thanks14:25
samuelbercovici1also avishayb is reviewing the core code14:26
ctraceysballe_: still working parts of it out14:26
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sballe_ctracey, ok ping me when you have it in there14:26
jorgem#action evgenyf to review
ctraceyI will definitely today. The members logic is a bit odd.14:26
jorgem#action avishayb to continue reviewing core code14:27
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ctraceyThat's something I will likely talk to you about blogan14:27
bloganctracey: okay ill be around most of the day14:28
jorgemOkay, I know everyone will be reviewing but I'd like to have certain community members spearhead the effort on certain tasks14:28
samuelbercovici#action avishayb to review
jorgemAgain, I just want to make sure we increase our momentum14:28
blogan#action everyone deploy the new code. instructions can be found here:
sbalukoffblogan: +114:29
crc32what about Seems like every one but the core reviewers are chiming in on it.14:29
jorgemAny other items related to speeding things up that people want to talk about?14:29
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samuelbercoviciblogan: it would be better to extend the tempest tests and use CI to run end-to-end14:29
ptoohill+1 crc3214:30
xgermansamuelbercovici +114:30
jorgem#action jorgem to ask core reviewers to review
dougwigcrc32: i'd wager they're waiting for the debate to calm down.14:30
dougwigi don't tend to ping the cores until something has several +1's from the sub team, and no -1's.14:31
blogansamuelbercovici: for testing it out and eploying?14:31
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crc32the TLS was stable for a while. I'd wager that my requests for core reviews led to more people to just blind -1 stuff.14:31
evgenyfjorgem: There is currently SNI issues discussions that should be resolved first14:31
xgermannice segway14:31
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dougwigcrc32: the review monster is a fickle mistress, i will agree.  :)14:32
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samuelbercoviciavishayb: asked for reviews on:
jorgem#topic TLS issues14:32
*** openstack changes topic to "TLS issues (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:32
jorgemTLS: Closing on SubjectAltName and TLS: Conflict Resolution during SNI14:32
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jorgemI think this is a nice segue14:33
vjay2are we discussing TLS spec now?14:33
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jorgemvjay2: Yes since we were talking about it14:33
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jorgemvjay2: And it's a major component that needs to be addressed14:34
jorgemvjay2: Would you like to start us off?14:34
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vjay2I had raised 2 issues14:34
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* dougwig gets a bowl of popcorn.14:35
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crc32I'll let you guys decide the conflict resolution but I just want to make sure SSL parsing code is avalble to the API. Also a declaration that x509 parsing isn't being done at SNI Handshake time.14:35
vjay2about parsing of the certificates's SAN14:35
jorgem#topci TLS Issues: Closing on SubjectAltName14:35
jorgemirc:// TLS Issues: Closing on SubjectAltName14:35
jorgemugh nm14:35
vjay2I think we should not detail about SAN in the spec unless required14:35
vjay2there could be backends like NetScaler which might have used SAN14:36
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vjay2*sorry not used SAN14:36
sbalukoffI disagree, since every major browser on the market uses SAN. :P14:36
sbalukoffAnd it's technically part of the TLS RFC.14:37
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johnsomSAN is common14:37
vjay2So what is the expecation from the backend if it does not implement NetScaler14:37
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dougwigif neutron fetches a cert/key, and parses out certain info, and then hands all of that to a driver, the driver is free to throw away what it isn't interested in/can't handle, and do its own thing, isn't it?14:37
sbalukoffdougwig: +114:38
evgenyfdougwig: +!14:38
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vjay2i agree with dougwig14:38
sbalukoffThen where is our disagreement?14:38
vjay2I would exactly want that, period14:38
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jorgemOkay so we have consensus it looks like. Who wants to update the bp?14:39
crc32dougwig+ I agree but you vjay2 are declaring that SAN should not be mentioned in the spec14:39
dougwigi think that is what the spec is defining, and if you want to parse out hostname on your own and not the way neutron is specifying, that's entirely possible.14:39
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xgermanI disagree with dougwig "own thing" scares me that things would work differently with each driver and not produce standatdized results14:39
vjay2Now the spec like SAN seems mandatory14:39
jorgemxgerman: Isn't that why you have different drivers to begin with?14:39
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bloganxgerman: isn't that going to happen with every driver?14:40
vjay2there should be an option for the driver to thow error if it could not support it14:40
jorgemxgerman: Keyword being different?14:40
evgenyfvjay: I can mention this point explicitlty in RST. Driver does not have to use SAn that is passed from API leyer14:40
crc32vjay2: Thats what sbuukoff suggested but the Mail thread went in differen't directions.14:40
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sbalukoffThe ability for the driver to reject certain configurations otherwise valid is going to become more and more important as we add features...14:40
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dougwigxgerman: well, step back, and the feature being deliver is SNI.  it is limiting and slows things down if every driver must implement that exactly the same way with exactly the same features.  i mean, we all "know" what SNI means, and you're free to not use a vendor that purposely implemented something that doesn't even come close.14:41
xgermanon the other hand to play ball they also need to support a minimum set of features14:41
vjay2thanks evgenyf14:41
vjay2sbalukoff: +114:41
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xgermandougwig, thanks for the clarification14:41
crc32fine. I sucks that every vender behaves differenty with SNI so I guess we have to accept this is driver specific.14:42
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crc32err it.14:42
xgermancrc32 wisj w ecould apply some normative pressure...14:42
jorgemOkay, so what updates do we need to make to the spec?14:43
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dougwigi'm not advocating that every vendor be different.  i'm advocating to not pull everything down to the lowest common denominator every time.14:43
crc32wrong one. bp=
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sbalukoffIt sounds like we'll need to add verbage to the spec that says a driver can choose not to use SAN info in order to get vjay2's approval.14:44
evgenyfI will do that14:44
crc32dougwig: Agreed.14:44
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sbalukoffdougwig: +114:44
vjay2I am fine with that14:44
jorgem#action evgenyf to add verbage to the spec that says a driver can choose not to use SAN info in order to get vjay2's approval. (https://review.
samuelbercovicisbalukoff: if the x509 has SAN info, than the backend should throw an unsupported exception14:45
jorgemAwesome. Now let's address conflict resolution during SNI. What is the main issue here?14:45
samuelbercovicivjay2: is that ok?14:45
sbalukoffAlso, for conflict resolution: Any problems with saying SNI-related certs have an order, and that individual drivers should do whatever they think is necessary to resolve conflicting hostnames? (Given that conflicting hostnames are a rarity?)14:46
xgerman+ 114:46
vjay2yes, SAN in combination with SNI. I dont think SAN is valid for non SNI cases14:46
samuelbercovicisbalukoff: +114:46
jorgem#topic TLS Conflict Resolution during SNI14:46
crc32samuelbercovici: +114:46
*** openstack changes topic to "TLS Conflict Resolution during SNI (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)"14:46
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dougwigsbalukoff: +114:47
sbalukoffvjay2: Any problem with that?14:47
evgenyfsbalukoff: +1 . RST is already stating that14:47
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samuelbercoviciso the correct behaviour of a backend is that if he can't match the expected behavior it should throw an unsupported exception14:47
sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: +114:47
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dougwigsamuelbercovici: +1, that's what i've been doing, anyway.14:48
vjay2Is order a mandatory to be specified while binding certs for SNI?14:48
crc32samuelbercovici +114:48
xgerman+1 though the community had trouble with that before14:48
crc32vjay2: No the spec already mentioned that.14:48
vjay2mandatory == mandatory attribute14:48
samuelbercovicithe expected behavior in this case is that if SAN exists in the certificate, it should be used. most certificates will not include SAN in them14:48
sbalukoffvjay2: Yes. And in fact, order only has relevance when there's a hostname conflict, which should be a rare situation in any case.14:48
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xgermanwell, the UI might be able to point that out anyway14:49
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crc32vjay2: The attribute was mandetory but the back end is free to ignore it. Much like SAN is now agreed to be.14:49
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sbalukoffcrc32: +114:49
xgermanwell, ignore or throw an exception -- not mix the two14:49
samuelbercovicicrc32: is SAN mandatory? I thooght it can be empty or non-existant14:49
vjay2crc32: That is what I dont like. someone could specify order if required14:49
vjay2Also, is * and considered conflicting?14:50
crc32the attr is mandetory though. Meaning all requests would trigger an Error.14:50
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crc32vjay2: No. would take priority like PKIX says it should14:50
sbalukoffvjay2: Yes those would be conflicting names. And yes order should be a mandatory attribute.14:50
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dougwigconflict about whether there is conflict.  meta.14:51
* TrevorV_ is metatastic14:51
vjay2NetScaler will be able to auto resolve this situation and choose when the request comes for
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sbalukoffsamuelbercovici: In the Radware implementation, if * comes before, does * win in this case?14:52
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sbalukoffAnd by "comes before" I mean "is ordered before"14:52
johnsomIt should be most specific first14:52
sbalukoffjohnsom: I agree. But I don't know whether Radware does. :)14:53
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crc32_so what do we follow ordering or
xgermanwell, can't we order in the api/driver so that most speciifc is first?14:54
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sbalukoffxgerman: Sure, but the whole reason we went with order was because it's necessary for Radware's implementation, from what I recall.14:55
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crc32_we could but the RFC2818 kinda mentions it's braindamage to use * if is also specified.14:55
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bloganit seems many people are losing connection14:56
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crc32_I'm fine either way.14:56
samuelbercovicisbalukoff: don't remeber by heart..the full logic was in ML.14:56
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crc32_I don't want to argue anymore.14:56
sbalukoffI seem to recall that was a hard requirement.14:56
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bloganjorgem: got disconneted and can't get back in14:56
vjay2the problem is lets say a user binds a cert with * earlier than then the behaviour will be different between NetScaler and the backend which honours order14:56
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sbalukoffYeah, I just want to get this done.14:56
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vjay2sbalukoff: me too14:57
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xgermanvijay2, dougwig said that we can buy whatever LB we think is best for our use case14:57
sbalukoffSo how about this, then:  We say the order can be used as a "hint" for name conflict resolution, but it's ultimately up to the driver to decide how to resolve the conflict.14:57
jorgem1I'm back14:57
sbalukoffOrder should be a mandatory attribute for those drivers that need it, but again, those that don't can ignore it.14:57
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vjay2sbalukoff: i am ok with that14:58
sbalukoffName conflicts are anticipated to be a rare edge case anyway.14:58
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bloganvijay2: does this need to be mentioned int he spec then?14:58
vjay2if name conflicts are rare14:58
sbalukoffSo yes, different drivers might have slightly different behavior when there are name conflicts.14:58
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vjay2does it need to be in the spec14:58
xgermansvalukoff +114:58
sbalukoffSo be it: I don't think we can do better than that, given vendor implementations are going to vary too much here.14:58
sbalukoffvjay2: Yes. So that we have this decision documented.14:59
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xgermanyep, and I like things int nhe spec so we are explicit14:59
jorgem1What is the decision?14:59
vjay2I am fine with that14:59
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xgermandrivers can deal with name conflicts however they choosew14:59
xgermanorder is a hint to help them14:59
sbalukoffjorgem: Decision is that order is a mandatory attribute. Order is a hint for drivers to use for conflict resolution when hostnames conflict.14:59
dougwigjorgem: "sbalukoff> So how about this, then:  We say the order can be used as a "hint" for name conflict resolution, but it's ultimately up to the driver to decide how to resolve the conflict."15:00
jorgem1Awesome. I think we are out of time folks.15:00
sbalukoffAlso, drivers are free to use their own logic for conflict resolution and don't have to use order.15:00
samuelbercoviciguys, need to evacyuate as we have a siren15:00
jorgem1Good discussions today.15:00
dougwigsamuelbercovici: shit, be safe15:00
crc32_sbalukoff: Should order be an optional attr then?15:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 17 15:00:43 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:00
sbalukoffcrc32: No.15:00
crc32_never mind15:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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eglynn#startmeeting ceilometer15:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 17 15:01:00 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer'15:01
eglynnhey y'all!15:01
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eglynn#topic Juno-2 status15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-2 status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)"15:01
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eglynnlet's go thru' the BPs and get a feel for what's gonna land15:02
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DinaBelovaeglynn, has been merged already :)15:02
eglynnnetsplit :(15:02
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llu-laptopwhat's going on?15:03
eglynnDinaBelova: updated15:03
eglynnllu-laptop: netslpit15:03
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nsajetsk, net split again15:03
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eglynnnsaje: arithmetic transformers looking good?15:03
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eglynncdent: ironic notifications looking good?15:03
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cdentyup, just want a verify from you and potentially a poke from lucas (or his peers) to make sure the metadata is payload is happy15:04
cdent(I added some more tests)15:04
eglynncdent: great :)15:04
eglynnnsaje: around?15:04
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nsajeeglynn: looking good15:05
eglynnnsaje: cool, thanks :)15:05
eglynnsileht: around?15:05
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eglynncdent: grenade/javelin, what's the thought on that?15:06
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cdentjogo is not excited: until javelin is operating in grenade he doesn't see much point adding features on it (he reiterated that on review today)15:06
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eglynncdent: so, prolly bump to juno-3 would be sensible?15:07
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cdenthowever Sean is more excited: he's pretty ready to get javelin running and is waiting for I'm not sure what for a patchset that does the intergration to be passed15:07
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jogocdent: working on getting it in grenade as we speak. hoping to get it working this week15:07
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eglynncdent, jogo: OK, I'll hold off bumping in that case15:07
cdentspeak of the devil!15:07
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eglynnpradk: around?15:08
jogoI am excited for new javelin features once the basics are working15:08
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pradkeglynn, hello15:08
eglynnjogo: cool, and EoW is realistic?15:08
cdentjogo have you seen the discussion eglynn and I are having around how to manage semantics in the javelin tests?15:08
jogoeglynn: thats the goal, will know more in a few hours15:08
eglynnjogo: cool15:08
eglynnpradk: confident on FWaaS/VPNaaS for juno-2?15:08
jogocdent: right now I just want it to work, so no15:09
cdentit's kind of germane to that actually: our disagreement is because 'create' doesn't fully work (depending on your definition of "work")15:09
pradkeglynn, so far yes.. i should at least be able to get it in partially.. there are a couple of deps from neutron side which we might have to wait on for other metrics. Other than that, so far on track15:10
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eglynncdent, jogo: so the key question is whether we chould run javelin/create+check on the old version, or just javelin/create and keep check to post-upgrade?15:10
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cdentI think it's agreed that is should be just create upgrade check15:11
eglynnpradk: cool, sounds like it'll be enough to declare vistory for the milestone15:11
cdentbut until create is "correct" that's not reliable15:11
eglynncdent: cool15:11
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pradkyea hopefully, i can get the resource discovery tests working soon.. getting close15:12
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DinaBelovaeglynn, as for the tempest testing (for j2) - lots of tests are ready to be merged, but due to the QA sprint folks are busy this week....15:12
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eglynnllu-laptop: SNMP-improvement isn't on the list because the spec hasn't landed15:12
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DinaBelovaeglynn, vrovachev and I will ping all QA folks asap..15:13
eglynnDinaBelova: great, thanks!15:13
DinaBelovaeglynn - I still hope to see and least all notifications tests merged in j215:13
DinaBelovaat least*15:13
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eglynnDinaBelova: did Vadim make any headway with the intermittent nova notification test timeout, do you know?15:14
llu-laptopllu-laptop: yes i'm still doing the coding, but it's risky for j2. My hope is to get the code ready before j2, and get it merged early j315:14
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DinaBelovaeglynn, that's no reproducible for him :(15:15
llu-laptopsorry, last msg should be directed to eglynn :(15:15
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eglynnllu-laptop: having patches up up by j2 would be great, thanks for the update15:15
DinaBelovaeglynn`- that's really strange thing - he tried several times to catch it - no results yet :(15:15
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ildikoveglynn: as for the polling testing in tempest, some mails already landed on the dev list trying to solve the issues there15:15
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eglynnDinaBelova: yeah, it's happening pretty regularly in the gate according to logstash15:16
ildikoveglynn: hopefully we will get some response after the qa sprint15:16
eglynnildikov: what's the $subject?15:16
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DinaBelovaildikov, eglynn - yep, as QA folks have meetup - no way they will answer quicker...15:16
DinaBelovaeglynn - [openstack-dev] [qa] Test Ceilometer polling in tempest15:17
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ildikoveglynn: yeap, that's it :)15:17
DinaBelovaeglynn, although polling tests were not supposed to be part of j2 (too much work even with basic ones)15:17
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eglynnildikov, DinaBelova: did you discuss with on IRC also with the qa folks?15:17
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DinaBelovaeglynn, they went to the sprint :)15:18
ildikoveglynn: we couldn't reach them15:18
eglynna-ha, got it15:18
DinaBelovathey are lost for this week :)15:18
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ildikoveglynn: that is why we started with the mail as async version15:18
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DinaBelovaSean travelled to Germany on Friday15:18
eglynnildikov, DinaBelova: fair enough15:18
DinaBelovaso even previous week was a little bit lost15:18
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eglynnso other stuff for juno-2 ...15:19
eglynnthis bug would be great to see fixed
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1336193 in pecan "Timeout test_coordination_assign gate error" [Undecided,Confirmed]15:19
eglynnnsaje: has a potential fix in the olso-messaging fake driver15:19
eglynnwe were waiting on a oslo-messaging 1.3.1 release to get our hands on that15:20
tnurlygayanovhi there, probably someone can help me - I can't upload image to Glance and see the following error in Glance logs:  - how to fix it?15:20
eglynnhowever that's now looking like it may not happen15:20
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eglynntnurlygayanov: redirect to #openstack-glance15:20
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DinaBelovatnurlygayanov, wrong chat :)15:21
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eglynninstead we may have to just straight to the 1.4 series ... i.e. >=
eglynnpossible as part of an overall dependency upgrade a la
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eglynnanyone see anything problematic in that?15:22
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DinaBelovaeglynn, no from my side15:23
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DinaBelovaeglynn - just silent nice update :)15:23
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eglynnok anything else relevant to juno-2?15:24
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eglynnildikov: how is the admin guide looking?15:24
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ildikoveglynn: kind of on track :)15:25
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ildikoveglynn: but I do not think that the whole story will fit in j-215:25
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eglynnildikov: ok, shout if you need extra eyes and/or content contributions15:25
ildikoveglynn: sure, will do15:26
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nsajethere's some bugfixes for python-ceilometerclient in gerrit that need core reviews (seems only llu-laptop looks at that repo these days :-) )15:26
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nsajeI guess it'd be good if they landed for juno-2?15:26
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eglynnnsaje: yeah we'd need to cut a new python-ceiloclient release15:26
eglynnnsaje: the client releases are decoupled from the main release cycle15:27
nsajeeglynn: oh right, I remember that now15:27
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eglynnjust on juno-2 admin in general ...15:28
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eglynnI need to take half-days off next week for family reasons15:28
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eglynnbut will be contactable15:28
eglynn(so just shout on email re. anything relevant to the milestone)15:28
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eglynn... also ttx will not be doing the release this time15:29
eglynn(it'll be russellb instead pushing the buttons)15:29
eglynnok shall we move on?15:29
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ttxsome praying is also involved15:30
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eglynnttx: LOL :)15:30
russellbttx has scripted and documented the process well :)15:30
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nsajehaha :)15:30
eglynn#topic gnocchi update15:30
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* eglynn channels jd__15:31
DinaBelovahehe :)15:31
eglynnso work is progressing on the aggregation/truncation fixes discussed at midcycle15:31
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DinaBelovafyi, /me still working on opentsdb driver draft - hope to post it tomorrow (at least, its parts) :)15:31
eglynnthis patch is up for review
eglynnDinaBelova: cool! ... by draft, do you mean a WIP/strawman patch?15:32
DinaBelovaeglynn, no, I mean normal change - but I think I'll need to add smth there15:32
DinaBelovaI'm not sure15:32
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eglynnDinaBelova: cool enough15:33
DinaBelovasome of my efforts there might require some opensdb patching :)15:33
eglynna-ha, you're finding opentsdb issues? ... nice15:33
DinaBelovaeglynn, like retention thing - it's not fully implemented there via rest api - just through hbase directly15:33
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DinaBelovabut as we use happybase+thrift agent to work with it from python we can't set ttl there :)15:34
DinaBelovaas opentsbd is java one - I may fix it there :)15:34
DinaBelovaand it'll work without any issues :)15:34
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eglynna-ha, k15:34
eglynnin other gnocchi news ...15:34
eglynnildikov's ceilo/gnocchi dispatcher spec landed15:35
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ildikov\o/ :)15:35
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DinaBelovajust a link to the gnocchi+opentsdb ML:!topic/opentsdb/9O57MfpRXI015:35
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ildikovtrying to start working on it now, j-2 is not a realistical target, aiming for early j-315:36
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DinaBelovaildikov, hehe :)15:36
eglynnildikov: cool15:36
eglynnk, move on from gnocchi?15:36
DinaBelovaeglynn, +115:37
eglynn#topic trusty switchover in the gate15:37
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eglynnso as you've probably noticed, clarkb has enabled trusty nodes in the gate15:37
eglynnso finally the ceilo py27 is actually running the mongodb scenario tests! :)15:37
eglynnagainst mongodb version 2.4.9 IIRC15:38
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DinaBelovaeglynn, :)15:38
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eglynnso the question is, are we ready to enable a tempest variant running against mongo?15:38
eglynnseeing as running against sql-a was always just a workaround for mongodb of the correct version not being available on precise15:39
DinaBelovaeglynn, actually we need to try - because I see no serious issues here to be met15:39
eglynnDinaBelova: cool15:39
DinaBelovaeglynn, only if it'll be found in the process of trying :)15:39
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eglynndoes anyone feel like proposing such a change to infra?15:39
DinaBelovaeglynn, me or Vadim may do that :)15:40
cdentIs the idea to run both sql-a and mongo, or just one?15:40
eglynnDinaBelova: excellent! :)15:40
eglynncdent: both probably15:40
DinaBelovacdent, I guess for the first time both15:40
DinaBelovaeglynn, oh15:40
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DinaBelovaeglynn - it was a while ago, I need to remember that change15:41
eglynnDinaBelova: yeah f20 was run into issues with skew in the nodepool allocation algorithm15:41
DinaBelovayes, exactly15:41
DinaBelovaok, good15:41
eglynnDinaBelova: (effectively discriminates against less-used distros)15:41
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eglynnthough ianw had a priority-aging patch up that addressed that15:42
eglynnnot sure if it actually landed in the end or was abandoned15:42
eglynnlanded :)15:43
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DinaBelovaeglynn, a-ha, /me looking15:44
eglynneven so, resistence might be reduced for a tempest-mongodb variant running on trusty as opposed to f2015:44
DinaBelovaeglynn, yes, for sure15:44
eglynnbecause of the duration of support question with fedora15:44
DinaBelovaI just found that old change in my reviews15:44
DinaBelovaand tried to get what it was about :D15:45
eglynnthe qa folks want >=18 months support for any distros they gate on15:45
DinaBelovaeglynn, yep, I remember your ML thread about that15:45
eglynnDinaBelova: yeap, so I think the path would be smoother if the new tempest variant was proposed for trusty15:45
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eglynnk, move on?15:46
DinaBelovaeglynn, agreed, ok, /action for me15:46
eglynn#action DinaBelova propose tempest-mongodb variant on trusty15:46
eglynn#topic opens discussion15:46
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llu-laptopguys, SAD is 20th, right? It seems that we still have quite specs to review.15:46
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eglynnllu-laptop: good point15:47
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eglynnllu-laptop: I think we'll have to treat that freeze as more a "slush"15:47
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eglynnbut yes, please do review and let's get any specs that are close over the line if possible15:48
eglynne.g. the llu-laptop's SNMP spec just needs a +115:48
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cdentsome small number of those specs are hung up on proposers on holiday15:50
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eglynncdent: good point15:50
eglynnfabiog flagged that at mid-cycle15:50
eglynnhe'll be back next week IIRC15:50
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eglynnso I indicated to fabiog that we'll be somewhat flexible with the spec acceptance deadline because of that15:52
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eglynnwho else lost money on kilo? ;)15:53
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cdentwas that the decision?15:53
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cdentwhere did it happen?15:53
* eglynn bet the farm on kepler15:53
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cdentkilo is booooooooooooring15:53
eglynncdent: on the openstack (non dev) ML15:53
cdentah, i'm less frequent on that one15:54
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nealphcdent:understandable given the sheer volume. :)15:54
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DinaBelovaeglynn, I was voting for Kyoto :)15:55
eglynnthat came in second15:55
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eglynn... there were worse options I guess15:55
llu-laptoplooks like no more follow the  city/steet name convention15:55
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nealphllu-laptop:+1 :(15:56
llu-laptopis kyoto a japan city?15:56
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eglynnllu-laptop: yeah, it all went to hell when we allowed grizzly ;)15:56
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DinaBelovaeglynn, :D15:56
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eglynnllu-laptop: yeah, but there was a tenuous connection to Paris also I think15:56
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eglynn... {Rue|Place|Avenue|Metro} de Kyoto ;)15:57
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eglynnok, we're up against the shot clock as usual15:57
eglynnanyone got anything else they want to raise up before we close?15:58
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DinaBelovano, not from me15:58
eglynnk, let's call it a wrap15:58
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eglynnthanks for the productive meeting!15:58
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"15:59
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 17 15:59:07 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)15:59
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mikalNova meeting?21:00
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leifzstart the clock.21:00
mikalpinging -- tjones cburgess jgrimm adrian_otto mzoeller funzo21:01
leifzare we logging?21:01
mikal#startmeeting nova21:01
openstackMeeting started Thu Jul 17 21:01:23 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is mikal. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova'21:01
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mikalSo, let's get this show started21:01
mikal#topic Juno-221:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Juno-2 (Meeting topic: nova)"21:01
mikal#info j-2 is 24th July21:02
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mikalWhich is kind of soon21:02
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mikalSo, there's a few j-2 things we should quickly cover21:02
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mikal#info Reviewers, please focus on j-2 targeted things if possible21:02
* russellb is ttx for juno-2 next week, fyi21:02
mikalYes, and a love ttx you are too21:02
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russellbheh <321:03
mikalThe timeline for the next release is at:21:03
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mikalWe also need to talk about specs who have requested a spec freeze exception21:03
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* mikal waits for the page to load21:03
dansmithdamned NBN21:03
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mikaldansmith: don't go there21:04
dansmithI don't even know if you're on the NBN or waiting for it21:04
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mikalNo, 2mbit DSL for me21:04
mikalBut anyways...21:04
mikalSo, we had a list of priority specs based on the summit back in the day21:04
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mikalWe should use that as a guide for spec freeze exceptions21:04
mikalBut nova-drivers can work through that in the spec repo21:05
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mikalIts the first time we've done specs, so I imagine the spec freeze process will involve a little discussion about the process as well as the specs themselves21:05
hemnamulti-attach isn't in that list unfortunately21:05
russellbshall we cover requests now?21:05
russellbthe -2 comment on specs said we would take requests in the meeting21:05
mikalSo, I'm only aware of two21:05
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mikalBut more might have come up overnight21:06
mikalI just woke up21:06
mikalrussellb: sure, go for it21:06
russellbmikal: see "Juno Spec Freeze" section of that etherpad21:06
russellblots listed as potential, some with sponsors21:06
russellbearlier today here, i was proposing that we require core review sponsors to get something approved21:06
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mikalUgh, that's quite a list21:06
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russellbso, if something has -core that cares enough to promise review effort on it, that should be strongly considered for an exception21:06
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hemnaI was hoping to add multi-attach to the list if possible ?21:07
russellbunless we think it's just way too disruptive to merge this late no matter what21:07
russellbthat's how i'd think about it, i think21:07
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mikalrussellb: I think that's wise. Two cores as sponsors would be even better because then we can point the finger at them for reviews21:07
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russellbmikal: indeed21:08
mikalhemna: have you sent an email to openstack-dev requesting one?21:08
russellbso, require at least 2 sponsors, and no major vetos saying it's too disruptive to do late in the cycle?21:08
russellbas the criteria?21:08
mikalhemna: I think we should ask people to make a (brief) case on the mailng list, and then we can take it from there21:08
hemnamikal, not currently.   I can do that though.21:08
russellband if so, maybe do a pass on the ones that have at least 2 already listed now21:08
mikalrussellb: that sounds reasonable to me21:08
mikalhemna: please do, ASAP please21:08
hemnawill do21:08
russellbso, first one with at least 2 sponsors is21:08
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mikalI am sure we'll tweak the plan as we learn how to make it work, but that's a good start21:09
russellbjohn, dansmith, and alaski on that one21:09
mtaninomikal:  I would like to have a exception too21:09
mikalmtanino: email to openstack-dev please?21:09
russellbthoughts on deprecate-baremetal-driver?21:09
mtaninomikal: not yet. So I will send a mail too.21:09
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mikalWe need ironic first for that one21:09
russellbdevananda is going to try to join us to talk about that21:09
devanandamikal: so the conversation earlier today was that some folks dont want to acept ironic w/o the deprecation21:09
dansmithyeah, no.. I think this should have been part of the ironic spec,21:09
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russellbdevananda: o/21:10
dansmithso I think it needs to be tied to the other one21:10
russellbagree with dansmith21:10
dansmithbut, I also think that it's in reasonable shape so I'm not too worried21:10
mikaldevananda: I thought deprecation was part of the plan from the summit, is that not your recollection?21:10
russellbi think being able to deprecate baremetal needs to be tied to merging the ironic driver21:10
dansmithjust don't want to drop it because it's after the deadline21:10
russellbi haven't reviewed the spec, but i view it as ironic drive + this, or neither21:10
devanandamikal: yes, both important, and both should happen21:10
mikaldevananda: I also believe that upgrade is progressed, but I haven't heard much about it?21:11
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devanandathere is code proposed for the upgrade21:11
devanandabut not yet any testing of it21:11
mikalIn your repo or outs?21:11
mikalours even21:11
devananda and
mikalI think this is complicated enough that perhaps we should ask for an email describing its status21:11
russellbanyone *not* think this should get an exception?21:11
mikalWhat's implemented, where its proposed, next steps, etc etc21:11
russellbmikal: want to defer approvals to ML?21:12
russellbor try to sort some now?21:12
mikalrussellb: this is a big list to get through21:12
russellbwell, was thinking we'd just start with ones that have sponsors listed already21:12
devanandai'm happy to give an email update, but i'd like to sort one question real quick21:12
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mikalLet's cherry pick out the most important / obvious ones now and do the rest on the ML21:12
russellbup to you21:12
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devanandado we (and if so ,how) need grenade testing of the upgrade before we can *land* the driver?21:12
dansmithI think we do21:12
devanandathat seems like another chiken and egg problem which took us a few days at the ATL summit to detangle21:12
mikalHow do we do that if baremetal never supported devstack?21:13
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devanandathere is *no* testing of baremetal right now21:13
devanandaso how do we test upgrades from it?21:13
russellbhrm, fair point ...21:13
* dansmith headdesks21:13
mikalAdding baremetal devstack is a pretty big tangent21:13
degweaHi, can you please consider too? It was submitted in June and looked fine but was not approved.21:13
mikalAnd probably not something juno has time for21:13
russellbmaybe for now we agree this spec should be approved, but let's sort out testing details on ML ?21:13
dansmithso, the things we need to test are pretty small, right?21:13
mikalYeah, let's be brutal here21:14
mikalWe're inclined to grant an exception21:14
mikalBut we want to see a status email on -dev, and to have a quick discussion about upgrade testing first21:14
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devanandadansmith: can baremeteal spin up some instances is the first criteria before we can even do a grenade test of an upgrade21:14
mikalWe will then talk about that exception in that thread21:14
devanandadansmith: i have no confidence in the first criteria today21:14
russellb#agreed exception granted for deprecate-baremetal-driver, pending agreement on test requirements21:14
mriedemdegwea: request an exception on the -dev mailing list21:14
mikaldevananda: tripleo uses baremetal though right?21:15
angdraugdegwea: see above, the process is 1) get email to openstack-dev; 2) add to; 3) get core reviewers to sponsor21:15
mikaldevananda: so we know it works at least a little21:15
devanandanow the train starts moving ... i'm gonna drop on and offline a bunch21:15
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russellbdevananda: can you start a thread about test requirements?21:15
mikal#info mikal will send an email about how to request an exception to -dev after this meeting21:15
degweaOK,if I do it tomorrow will it still be consider? Thx21:15
devanandamikal: yes, in tripleo. but it's not tested in devstack21:15
devanandarusseack. feel free to #action me21:15
mikaldegwea: that will be fine, but it will need to be tomorrow21:16
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raildohi, this BP can be considered? I think sajeesh can explain it better21:16
russellb#action devananda to start a thread on openstack-dev to nail down test expectations for baremetal -> ironic upgrade21:16
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russellbso, the next that has 2 or more sponsors is
russellbi think this is in the obvious category21:16
mriedemraildo: see above21:16
mikalYeah, approved21:16
degweaSure it will be tomorrow Thanks21:16
raildomriedem: ok21:16
mikalTrack that in the etherpad?21:16
russellb#agreed glance v2 support exception approved21:16
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mikalOr that!21:16
arnaud__great thanks russellb21:16
mikalSimilarly, where did we end up with the cinder API spec?21:17
mriedemmikal: it's under review21:17
mriedemthe code that is21:17
mriedemthe spec was approved21:17
russellbthought that one was approved already21:17
mriedemawhile ago21:17
mikalOh, good21:17
mriedemthingee: ^21:17
russellbah right21:17
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mikalI will admit to not having all 60 something approved specs in my head21:17
russellbis the next one with sponsors21:17
russellbhas 4 listed, overkill, heh21:17
mikalI guess the other thing we're asking...21:17
thingeecinder api code is just about done. there is one test still failing21:17
mriedemi think we have to dig into the rbd test failures a bit21:18
russellbat least 2 people have told me they've already looked over the code and think it's reasonable to land very soon21:18
mikalDo we think that spec could be merged today?21:18
thingeecinder v2 api support*21:18
mikalHow close is the spec itself?21:18
angdraugmriedem: jaypipes already has a fix in testing for that21:18
russellbmriedem: well the good news is that there weren't *that* many failures21:18
mriedemmikal: the rbd specs says 'testing? nah"21:18
mikalmriedem: le sigh21:18
russellbmriedem: yeah but that's in progress now21:18
thingeethere is an inconsistency between v1 and v2 in schema type failing. I'll have to update the tempest test to know about both unfortunately.21:18
russellbspec out of date on the test front21:18
mikalIf we approve an exception, it has to be timeboxed, right?21:18
russellband i'm tracking debugging / fixing test failures21:19
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mikali.e. We will keep reviewing that spec for say a week or something21:19
mikalIf we can't agree within a week, its still out?21:19
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russellbmikal: agreed21:19
mriedemi think the spec's testing section just needs updating21:19
mikalWhat do we think is a reasonable timeout period?21:19
russellbmikal: was assuming we generally were ready to approve the spec if we give an exception21:19
russellba week is generous IMO21:19
mriedemthen the spec is ok, but we can't land the code w/o the test issues resolved21:19
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mriedemresolved = bugs with possible skips if using rbd maybe21:20
mikalSo in this case, we'd be giving a week for someone to come up with a _plan_ for testing that we like21:20
mikal(Not nessesarily an implementation)21:20
russellbmikal: i'm all over it21:20
mriedemmikal: russellb has a devstack patch running with rbd21:20
mriedem14 failures, might not all be rbd21:20
mikalrussellb: sure, but I'm trying to set precident for future exceptions21:20
mriedemsome are definitely rbd issues21:20
* russellb nods21:20
mriedemi'm still not sure how we're going to test glance and cinder v221:20
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mriedemor keystone v3 for that matter21:21
mikal#info a spec exception means that you have a week from the exception being granted to reach a concensus and get the spec merged. If that doesn't happen, then exception expires.21:21
russellb#action russellb will update rbd spec's testing section to reflect progress on ceph testing in the gate21:21
cyeohcan we also look at (v2.1 on v3) - only has one core sponsor, but I'm pretty sure oomchi would have sponsored too if he knew about the request for core sponsors21:21
mikalOk, so it sounds like rbd is a spec exception winner21:21
russellbagree on an exception for that one, once the test section is updated?21:21
russellbok cool21:21
arnaud__would you guys mind removing the -2 on ?21:21
russellb#agree exception approved for rbd spec, pending update of the test section to reflect gate test progress21:21
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mriedemarnaud__: i think we already did talk about it, else ML21:22
russellbmikal: that's all that had 2 people confirmed already21:22
mikalLet's go backwards and talk v3 API for a second21:22
russellbyeah, that's what i was going to mention next21:22
mikalI just sneakily added my name there to get it over the line21:22
arnaud__mriedem, we did, but that doesn't encourage people to review if there is a -221:22
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russellbah there it is heh21:22
mikalI would like to see us have a really good try at reaching a concensus on that one in the next week21:22
mikalI think we're painfully close21:23
russellbseems reasonable to me21:23
mikalcyeoh: ^--21:23
mriedemarnaud__: i'd send something to ML so it's not lost21:23
mikaloomichi: ^--21:23
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arnaud__ok sure mriedem will do21:23
mikalSo, I think that means its an exception winner too21:23
russellbi don't think i should commit to review, but happy to support the exception21:23
mikalWith a note that we're really close to not having enough time to actually implement it all21:23
russellb#agreed v2-on-v3-api gets an exception21:23
cyeohthe v2.1 on v3 has all the microversions details merged into it now too so its not dependent on anything else21:23
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mikalI think the people I need for reviews are dansmith and alaski based on previous review concerns21:23
mikalsdague too if he has the time21:24
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raildomriedem: from what I understand, no spec will be approved in Juno, only K version, ok?21:24
alaskiI'm willing to review it21:24
mikalThanks man21:24
dansmithmikal: yeah, I feel like several of us have said that we're not comfortable trying to get it done by juno, but I'll take another trip through that spec and see if I can convince myself21:24
mriedemraildo: exceptions for juno have to go through the openstack-dev mailing list right now21:24
russellbit does seem scary to crunch in21:24
mikalI think it depends where we draw the line21:25
mikalBut yes21:25
russellbbut i'm not against at least progress in juno if there can be consensus on the spec21:25
raildomriedem: ok, thanks21:25
mikalI am worried specifically about the proxying code that isn't written yet (cinder, neutron that is)21:25
alaskiI agree with that.  But progress would be nice so there's more to discuss at a summit21:25
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cyeohwe had the spec initially submitted in April, so we've been ready to go, just waiting on spec approval really (and the v2.1 on v3 spec itself hasn't changed much)21:25
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mikalFor better or worse this is where we are21:26
mikalBut I would like to get a start on it at the least21:26
mikalBut yeah, let's let the exception process do its work and see where we end up21:26
cyeohyep, agreed21:26
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mikalI think we should move on from specs to be honest. We only have 30ish minutes to go21:27
mikalAny other exception requests to the mailing list please21:27
mikalNoting that we already have a really large number of specs approved...21:27
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hemnamikal, sent a short quick one for mine.21:27
mikalI am already worried about code review bandwidth21:27
dansmithI'm quite concerned21:28
mikalWell, I'm always worried about it21:28
mikalBut I think its getting worse21:28
mikal#topic Mid-cycle meetup21:28
*** openstack changes topic to "Mid-cycle meetup (Meeting topic: nova)"21:28
mriedemdid we find chairs?21:28
mikal#info We ran out of seats, mikal has a plan21:28
mriedemor will there be lap sitting?21:28
mikalSo... I've asked Intel to re-confirm the size of the room21:28
xarseshot seat21:28
mikalIts apparently a training room so we might be able to drag more sets in21:29
mriedemit's going to smell like a locker room in there...21:29
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n0anoI'm sure we're good for 35, >40 might be a problem.21:29
mikalEither way, I'm going to try and sneak in everyone from that mail thread21:29
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mikalSome of the containers people ahve moved to their meetup, which helps21:29
mriedemok, was going to ask about that21:29
mikalWe will just need to be organized about sending a runner to their room when we start ranting about them21:29
mikalDitto for the ironic folks21:29
mikalBut yeah, we can make it work21:30
n0anothe rooms are withint about 30' of each other21:30
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mikaln0ano: we're metric for K now. So 10 meters21:30
alaskitin cans and string?21:30
tjonesdo we have an agenda?  or did i miss it?21:30
mikalSo, I had a call with n0ano and the other two meetup organizers about logistics the other day21:30
mikalSo I think we're set there21:30
mikalThere will be an email with details (emergency phone numbers etc) next week21:31
mikalThat will just go to registered attendees21:31
russellbtjones:  there's an etherpad with proposed topics21:31
mikalBecause I don't want to give out the Intel admin's phone number ot the entire world21:31
mikalYes, next is the agenda21:31
n0anoI do need a final list of attendees names & email aaddresses by this coming Mon. (have to arrange wifi access)21:31
mikaln0ano: ok cool. Can you email me that so I remember?21:31
n0anomikal, already did21:31
mikalSo there's an etherpad collecting topics21:32
mikaln0ano: cool21:32
mikalThere's also the hot topics from the meeting page21:32
mikalSo, let's spend until say Wednesday nailing that down21:32
mikalAnd then we can try and turn it into a rough agenda21:32
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mikalI'm ok with that bit beign a little rubbery -- if somehting needs more time than we think it does, we can keep going on it as long as nothing important misses out21:32
mikalAny questions about the midcycle?21:33
tjonesdo we know which day we are going to talk about bugs?  I want to be there for that but can't be there the whole time21:33
mikaltjones: what day works best for you?21:33
mikaltjones: how about you pick a day and put that on the topics etherpad, we can just work with that21:33
tjonesmonday would be awesone21:34
tjonesor awesome too21:34
dansmithI refuse to talk about bugs on monday21:34
tjonesdansmith: i figured21:34
mikaldansmith: mutter21:34
dansmithtjones: just trying to be difficult.. monday is fine21:34
tjonesdansmith:  :-D21:34
mikalSomeone bring a blow dart of sedatives for dansmith21:34
dansmithtjones: devananda told me I'm always difficult, so I'm trying to live up to that21:34
mikalI think you can't get them at walmart21:34
russellbno, you can.21:34
mikalOh, good21:35
mriedemyou can get anything at wal mart21:35
russellbsedatives at least, you may have to bring your own blow darts.21:35
mikalIncluding freedom?21:35
mriedemoh wait except music with swearing21:35
mikalSo, nothing _serious_ about the midcycle?21:35
* mikal times out21:35
mikal#topic Bugs21:36
*** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: nova)"21:36
russellbno, that's just your DSL21:36
mikalApparently we have bugs21:36
mikalrussellb: sigh21:36
mikaltjones: talk at us21:36
tjonesok so most of you have seen
mikalYes, its really good21:36
tjoneswhich helps me an others get a better handle on our situation21:36
mikalThe bug count seems to have gone down a fair bit since that page appeared21:36
mikalLast I looked we were at 1,000 instead of 1,400 now21:37
tjonesjogo:  has been very helpful with geting the abandoned and merged bug list down21:37
mriedemjogo has been doing things21:37
tjonesyeah things are moving in the right direction!21:37
tjonesonly 2 criical issues today and both are under control21:37
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mikalEven the SSH timeout one?21:37
tjonesi'd like to point out that there are 183 bugs ready for review21:38
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russellbready for code review?21:38
tjonesyeah - ssh needs a backport, but last comment was it's ok on master21:38
tjonesrussellb: yes ready for review21:38
mikaltjones: so... a web page listing bugs for review where the bug is older than 7 days would excite me21:38
russellbtjones: wow21:38
dansmithtjones: is that a patch other than the two I did last week to fix that?21:38
mikalI think excluding super new bugs would help21:38
leifzIt may be worth removing owners for long un-updated bugs.21:38
tjonesmikal: the updated column shows that21:38
mikalBecause lots of people file a bug and then immediately fix it21:38
dansmithtjones: because I've got all my fixed backported21:38
mikaltjones: oh, I more meant a page listing reviews I should do21:39
mikaltjones: to encourage, well, review of those thigns21:39
tjonesmikal: sure i can add that21:39
mikaltjones: perhaps a separate page or somethign?21:39
mriedemdansmith: i'm not aware of any others for the ssh thing21:39
mikaltjones: but thanks for keeping hacking on this21:39
dansmithmriedem: okay, mine are all backported and committed21:39
mriedemdansmith: unless those need to go to stable/havana for some reason21:39
dansmithmriedem: yeah, don't think so21:39
tjonescheck jogo comment on
mriedemdansmith: logstash can tell us, i'll check21:40
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1298472 in nova "SSHTimeout in tempest trying to verify that computes are actually functioning" [Critical,Confirmed]21:40
mriedemwe aren't kiling the gate right now21:40
mriedemothers are21:40
tjonesmikal: sure it's been fun actually21:40
mikalOn the bug front we should probably be paying attention to the mysql deadlock problems neutron is seeing, because I think we're seeing them too21:40
mikalThe fix seems to be lost in pypi land, but we should keep half an eye on it21:40
dansmithmriedem: yeah, my last one merged right after jogo's last comment on the bug I think21:41
dansmithtjones: so I think that one is good21:41
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tjonesdansmith: great21:41
mikaldansmith: as in the SSHTimeout bug can be resolved?21:41
mikalResolved^WMarked fix committed?21:41
dansmithmikal: we still hit the problem occasionally, but for a different reason21:41
dansmithmikal: this bug is so over-used though,21:41
mikalCan we close it and make a new one for the smaller case then?21:42
mriedemyeah the query is very generic21:42
dansmithmikal: that I think we should mark it done and open a new one to cover the sporadic other ones21:42
mriedemso any ssh timeout will hit this query21:42
dansmithmikal: yeah, we should do that21:42
russellbdansmith: +121:42
mikaldansmith: snap!21:42
mriedemi can remove the e-r query21:42
mikaldansmith: please go and expense yourself a bottle of champagne21:42
dansmiththat was a big nasty bug,21:42
mikaldansmith: the cheap stuff please21:42
dansmithwhich was not even gate-related and could be a real problem in production21:42
dansmithso glad to get that resolved21:42
mikaldansmith: it could be passionfruit flavoured21:43
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dansmithmikal: will-do21:43
mriedemdansmith: can you get the patch links into the bug report?21:43
mriedemnot sure they are all there21:43
mriedemthen we can close it21:43
dansmithmriedem: I'll look, but I thought they were there, because I've been referencing it21:43
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mriedemlp linker doesn't work21:43
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mikalOk, we should probably move on again21:44
dansmithmriedem: apparently none of them are, so yeah21:44
mikalAnything else on bugs?21:44
tjonesnot from me21:44
mikaltjones: thanks for doing a great job21:44
mikaldansmith: thanks again for fixing that bug21:44
tjonesmikal: thanks!21:44
mriedemif anyone knows anything about requests connection pools,21:44
mriedembug 134177721:44
uvirtbotLaunchpad bug 1341777 in python-glanceclient "glanceclient is not handling http connection pools properly with python-requests" [High,In progress]
mriedemglanceclient is spamming the n-cpu logs badly21:44
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mriedemi've tried patches but not fixing it21:45
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mikalmriedem: could you get someone on the glance side to dig into it?21:45
mriedemmikal: flaper87|afk helped with one21:45
mikalmriedem: do other projects see it?21:45
mriedemyes, c-vol21:45
mriedemand g-api is spammed in turn by swiftclient b/c of requests21:45
mriedemsame issue i think21:45
mriedemi tried ML21:46
mriedemanyway, just fyi21:46
mikalyeah, thanks21:46
mriedemhelp needed by clienty people21:46
mikalOr someone looking for a good adventure21:47
mriedem3 days is enough for me21:47
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mikalSo, let's move on21:47
mikal#topic Gate Status21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Gate Status (Meeting topic: nova)"21:47
mikalThe gate seems pretty good at the moment?21:47
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mikalVery quiet right now in fact21:47
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dansmithseems very good this week, yeah21:48
mikalSo, j-2 is going to change that, so I think that means we have an incentive to approve as much j-2 stuff as soon as we can21:48
dansmiththings merge whilst making coffee, unexpectedly21:48
mikalObviously without lowering our standards21:48
mikalBut if you have a spare moment, do a code review or two21:48
mikalOk, moving on again21:49
mikal#topic Review status21:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Review status (Meeting topic: nova)"21:49
mikal#info Please focus on j-2 reviews21:49
mikalWhat else do we need to say about reviews?21:49
mikalI'm sure there are people who want their reviews rescued (I have some like that myself)21:49
mikalBut let's stick with j-2 as much as is sane21:49
russellbis my report on review queue status21:49
russellbturnaround times have improved in the last couple weeks actually21:50
russellba few people have been hitting old stuff21:50
russellbthere's some more interesting stats at the bottom of
mikalThe waiting on submitter number makes me a bit happier21:50
russellb  Queue growth in the last 30 days: 135 (4.5/day)21:50
mikalThose numbers are probably skewed by the lack of abandons as well21:50
russellbis the scary one21:50
mikalSo, cores...21:50
mikalMost of us didn't realize that we now need to hand abandon it seems21:50
mikalThe bot went off for a rest21:51
russellbdanpb did some nice analysis that showed that the core team is doing a fairly consistent amount over the last year21:51
mikalSo, if you see a review thats weeks and weeks old and obviously idle, please manually abandon it21:51
russellbinput to the queue is just going up21:51
leifzrussellb: I think some of that is my fault, I hit up folks to refresh to verify no merge conflicts.21:51
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russellbleifz: stats would still treat it as old unless jenkins did a -1 after that21:51
leifzrussellb: which happened in a number of them :-(21:52
russellbat least the one that does Longest waiting reviews (based on oldest rev without -1 or -2):21:52
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mikalLooking at the time...21:52
russellb  Changes merged in the last 30 days: 318 (10.6/day)21:52
mikalIs there anything else urgent about reviews, or shall we do the fastest sub team report round ever?21:52
* russellb stops spouting off stats21:52
mikal#topic Subteam reports21:52
*** openstack changes topic to "Subteam reports (Meeting topic: nova)"21:52
mikalWho has something urgent in sub team land?21:52
* n0ano gantt21:53
russellbi just wanted to note that i'm trying to push on getting ceph testing in the gate going21:53
russellbsince we've talked about it in here before a little bit21:53
russellbhm, i think i mentioned that earlier, sorry.21:53
mikalHeh, NP21:53
n0anolooking for use cases to justify spliting out gantt, please look at the ether pad
mikaln0ano: do I misunderstand, or is that backwards?21:53
n0anomikal, ?21:54
mikaln0ano: shouldn't we look for scheduler use cases and then decide what to do?21:54
mikaln0ano: not decide what to do, and then find reasons to justify it?21:54
mikaln0ano: or perhaps I've totally failed to parse your sentence21:54
russellbmikal: stop thinking rationally sir21:54
n0anoare there use cases that would require a separate scheduler is the question21:54
mikaln0ano: ahh, ok. Cool.21:55
russellbbut yes, lately the whole split idea has been questioned21:55
mikalI am looking forward to getting Jay in a room and talking through that21:55
* russellb hasn't been able to catch up on all the related ML traffic though ...21:55
mikalIt seems he has thoughts to share21:55
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jaypipesuh oh.21:55
melwittmikal: I read it the same way, sounds backward21:55
n0anoI think there are other, non-technical reasons for the split but having technical justification would help21:55
russellbjaypipes: that sounded threatening, didn't it?21:55
russellbjaypipes: watch out for the boomerang21:55
mikalA bunch of the refactoring proposed makes sense to me regardless of split or not21:55
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jaypipesangdraug: fyi, *still* waiting for integrated api samples tests to complete... guh, they take around 5 seconds for each test method.21:56
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mikalLike making the scheduler more advisory and not a part of the boot flow21:56
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mikalI think this will be a largish topic at the meetup21:56
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mikalSo, any other subteams?21:56
mikal#topic Open Discussion21:56
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: nova)"21:56
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mikalYou have two minutes for open discussion, use it wisely21:57
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mikalI like pancakes21:57
* russellb likes pancakes, but prefers a good belgian waffle21:57
mikalOh, and did another python-novaclient release21:57
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mikalPlus, have creted an ongoing LP burden for future nova PTLs because it amuses me21:57
mikalcreated even21:57
russellbusing milestones?21:57
russellbthat's a good idea21:57
russellbshould have all along21:57
mikal2.18.0 looks _big_ in LP!21:58
mikalIts actually pretty easy21:58
russellbmikal: that script you're using handle it?21:58
mikalI stole dolphm's script to do it21:58
mikalIts documented on the wiki21:58
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russellbttx has some handy scripts that help with this kind of stuff too21:58
russellblike, auto deferring bugs not fixed21:58
mikalOne day we should document all of those21:58
mikalWell, with the client I've been creating the milestone 30 seconds before releasing21:59
mikalSo deferral isn't a thing21:59
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russellbcreate, then target everything fixed?21:59
russellbmeh, works :)21:59
sean-k-mooneycan i ask how excetions should be requested via the ml?21:59
mikalYep, that's the flow21:59
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mikalsean-k-mooney: spec exceptions, yes?21:59
mikalsean-k-mooney: as in... yes, spec exceptions to the ML please21:59
russellbttx's can do the auto-target bit i think21:59
dansmithaaaaand, time.22:00
sean-k-mooneyok i was just wondering if it was documented22:00
mikalThanks again for coming peoples22:00
mikalYou're all lovely people with nice hair styles22:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"22:00
openstackMeeting ended Thu Jul 17 22:00:24 2014 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)22:00
openstackMinutes (text):
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mikalsean-k-mooney: I promised to send an email with the process after the meeting22:00
mikalsean-k-mooney: but I need to get coffee first22:00
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sean-k-mooneyok thank you.22:01
russellbmikal: not the 1st cup i hope22:01
russellbthat should be required before a meeting22:01
mikalrussellb: first cup happened during the meeting22:01
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* russellb disappears22:01
mikalI'd been up for like 5 minutes at the start of the meeting22:01
mikalCause I slept in cause cold22:01
mikalAs in, it was too cold to get out of bed22:01
mikalSo I refused22:01
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cyeohmikal: cbr rule #1 - can't get out of bed until the top of the quilt is warm22:03
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mikalcyeoh: or the penguins have wandered off at least22:04
mikalrussellb: it is now 8am, and 1 degree above freezing outside22:04
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tinouealaski: hi22:08
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