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| fifieldt | i18n meeting? :) | 07:57 |
|---|---|---|
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| adiantum | fifieldt: waiting for it =) | 07:59 |
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| Fdot | fifieldt adiantumhello | 07:59 |
| fifieldt | awesome | 07:59 |
| Fdot | let's start :) | 07:59 |
| adiantum | Fdot hello | 07:59 |
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| Fdot | #startmeeting OpenStack I18n Meeting | 07:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 7 07:59:42 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Fdot. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 07:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'openstack_i18n_meeting' | 07:59 |
| fifieldt | w00t | 07:59 |
| Fdot | Good morning/evening everybody :) | 08:00 |
| Fdot | who is here ? | 08:00 |
| Steff00 | steff00 | 08:00 |
| jpich | Morning! | 08:00 |
| fifieldt | good afternoon | 08:00 |
| Fdot | hello Steff00 jpich :) | 08:00 |
| adiantum | good afternoon =) | 08:00 |
| Steff00 | hello everybody | 08:00 |
| epico | good afternoon | 08:00 |
| ujuc | hello | 08:00 |
| Fdot | Hello :) | 08:01 |
| ujuc | :) | 08:01 |
| Fdot | Daisy is in holiday today, so I am going to drive this meeting | 08:01 |
| Fdot | the agenda is very light | 08:01 |
| Fdot | we are going to speak about the Documents’ categorization | 08:01 |
| Fdot | and we will take some time for an open discussion | 08:02 |
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| Fdot | is there any subjects you would like to add to the agenda ? | 08:02 |
| Fdot | ok we will see during the open discussion :) | 08:03 |
| Fdot | #topic Documents’ categorization | 08:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Documents’ categorization (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:03 | |
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| Fdot | In a previous meeting we have started to discuss about categorize the translation projects | 08:04 |
| Fdot | there is now too many projects in transifex | 08:04 |
| Fdot | and some projects are changing too much | 08:04 |
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| fifieldt | #link https://www.transifex.com/projects/p/openstack-manuals-i18n/resources/ | 08:04 |
| Fdot | so for new translators it is difficult to see how to start | 08:04 |
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| Fdot | and they could be afraid about all the works | 08:05 |
| Fdot | thanks fifieldt | 08:05 |
| Fdot | so it could be interesting to categorize all the projects | 08:05 |
| Fdot | and then defining priorities | 08:05 |
| Fdot | we have started to discuss about this with Daisy | 08:06 |
| Fdot | and we have 2 propositions : | 08:06 |
| Fdot | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/I18nTeam/docs-translation | 08:06 |
| Fdot | what do you think about this ? Any suggestion ? | 08:06 |
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| adiantum | looks pretty good, but not so much documents categorized | 08:08 |
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| Fdot | adiantum: it is just an example ;) | 08:08 |
| fifieldt | anyone want to quickly l;ook at : https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n-manuals-classification ? | 08:08 |
| adiantum | ok =) | 08:08 |
| fifieldt | we could attempt to classify them now | 08:08 |
| Fdot | I didn't add every projects before being agree about the format :) | 08:08 |
| Steff00 | seems to be a good thing . Who will classify the docs ? | 08:09 |
| Fdot | Steff00: every volunteers are welcome :) | 08:10 |
| fifieldt | so, I think stablity varies during the release cycle | 08:10 |
| fifieldt | for instance, install-guide is stable for about a 3-4 week period every cycle | 08:10 |
| fifieldt | so if we want to translate that, we should do it during that time | 08:11 |
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| adiantum | just a note, looks like we could use one heuristic - log translations is not very important, so all docs with type log could have low priopity | 08:12 |
| AJaeger | sorry for beeing late - any question you have on Documents that I can help with? | 08:12 |
| Fdot | adiantum: agree :) | 08:12 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: hello :) | 08:12 |
| fifieldt | AJaeger, see if you agree with the categorisations in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/i18n-manuals-classification | 08:12 |
| * AJaeger checks | 08:13 | |
| Fdot | One important things a lot of contributors coming are not coming for only translating the documentation | 08:13 |
| Fdot | they are also coming for translating services like Horizon | 08:13 |
| adiantum | and how frequently changing common during release cycle? | 08:13 |
| Fdot | so we have to add it into the list and priorization | 08:14 |
| fifieldt | yes, common is a problem | 08:14 |
| Fdot | common is moving too much and it is too big | 08:14 |
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| fifieldt | AJaeger, what do you think about moving the config tables out of common into config-reference | 08:15 |
| AJaeger | Fdot, but common includes a couple of files that need translation - like the preface and appendix | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | I don't think we really use them as 'common' | 08:15 |
| AJaeger | fifieldt, sure, we can do that. | 08:15 |
| fifieldt | I think to facilitate translation, common should be as small as possible | 08:16 |
| AJaeger | be aware that we download in general only files that have at least 75 % translations with two exceptions: glossary and common (8 % each) | 08:16 |
| AJaeger | fifieldt, propose a patch ;) | 08:16 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: yes but 73,557 words :) | 08:16 |
| * AJaeger agrees with the classification on the etherpad and has commented on it | 08:17 | |
| Fdot | is it possible to move all the logs into one log common project ? | 08:18 |
| fifieldt | actually, it's true that many log messages come from oslo.common | 08:18 |
| AJaeger | Fdot, they come initially from oslo-incubation and the files get copied around | 08:19 |
| fifieldt | There is a danger though that different projects use different versions of oslo | 08:19 |
| AJaeger | With a couple of oslo libraries graduated now, we have a much better situation. | 08:19 |
| AJaeger | They are now in *one* location - lke olso.messaging or oslo.i18n. Projects just need to update and remove the old oslo-incubation code and require the library instead | 08:20 |
| AJaeger | My recommendation for now: Don't translate log message and wait a bit until this has settled... | 08:20 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: ok | 08:20 |
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| Fdot | Etherpad is going to be usefull for completing the wiki page | 08:21 |
| Fdot | thanks a lot | 08:21 |
| Fdot | I am going to add all the informations and projects today | 08:22 |
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| fifieldt | Fdot, one other thing to consider | 08:22 |
| fifieldt | is taking a stance like the documentation team did | 08:22 |
| fifieldt | that they wouldn't touch non-integrated projects | 08:22 |
| * AJaeger has setup the translation jobs for the projects in incubation. I can switch those off if desired... | 08:23 | |
| Fdot | fifieldt: which one for example ? | 08:23 |
| fifieldt | sahara, marconi, barbarican etc | 08:23 |
| fifieldt | designate, gantt | 08:23 |
| Fdot | oh ok of course | 08:24 |
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| fifieldt | given the limited resources in our team, and the scary number of projects, it might be a reasonable step to remove these first | 08:24 |
| fifieldt | it would reduce the number of untranslated projects in view | 08:24 |
| Fdot | I am agree with you | 08:24 |
| Fdot | And in our translating teams we should communicate more about the priority | 08:25 |
| Fdot | and about the project we don't need to touch | 08:25 |
| fifieldt | yup, it's nice | 08:25 |
| Fdot | like the documentation team | 08:25 |
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| Fdot | are we still all agree about the priorities during the past meeting : | 08:26 |
| Fdot | api-quick-start | 08:27 |
| Fdot | api-ref-guides | 08:27 |
| Fdot | api-ref | 08:27 |
| Fdot | image-guide | 08:27 |
| Fdot | Horizon | 08:27 |
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| fifieldt | Seems like a reasonble start - they are small | 08:28 |
| fifieldt | and not changing | 08:28 |
| Fdot | and easy for new translators arriving on the project | 08:29 |
| adiantum | sounds good | 08:29 |
| AJaeger | fifieldt, some of these projects will integrate in Juno, so we should have them. | 08:29 |
| Fdot | and the config tables will be removed from common we will be able to add it into the list | 08:29 |
| * AJaeger does not agree with api-ref and api-ref-guides | 08:30 | |
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| Fdot | AJaeger: why ? | 08:30 |
| AJaeger | those are small because they contain lots of WADL that is not translated! | 08:30 |
| fifieldt | I just checked, and the config tables are 27812 words | 08:30 |
| fifieldt | this is true | 08:30 |
| Fdot | 25% of the project ;) | 08:31 |
| fifieldt | they're so small though AJaeger | 08:31 |
| fifieldt | api-ref-guides is 211 words | 08:31 |
| fifieldt | api-ref is a bit bigger though | 08:32 |
| fifieldt | 4151 words | 08:32 |
| AJaeger | let me check how large the generated manuals are... | 08:32 |
| fifieldt | AJaeger is right that they shouldn't be a "priority" in terms of usefulness, but they can serve a purpose of giving a sense of completeness for a team :) | 08:32 |
| fifieldt | AJaeger, 20k words for install guide for example | 08:32 |
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| fifieldt | 60k words for ops guide | 08:33 |
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| AJaeger | api-ref produces html pages and includes the WADLS | 08:34 |
| AJaeger | complete api-ref-guides is 1402 pages - the 211 words is just misleading | 08:36 |
| AJaeger | api-ref-guides includes *lots* of other files, the 211 words are just the glue that ties it together. | 08:36 |
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| AJaeger | Same with api-ref-guides | 08:36 |
| AJaeger | 1402 PDF pages | 08:36 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: It could be very interesting to be able to translate this content | 08:37 |
| Fdot | because it has been done for end users / developers | 08:37 |
| AJaeger | Fdot, I don't think it's worth to translate the API - this is reference documentation. | 08:37 |
| AJaeger | Fdot, first you need to enhance the tools so that WADLs can be translated as well. | 08:37 |
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| AJaeger | This is a not trivial | 08:38 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: I know | 08:38 |
| Fdot | is the move from transifex to an another tool is going to improve this ? | 08:38 |
| AJaeger | Sory, I have to leave again and if there are further questions, I can answer on the i18n mailing list | 08:38 |
| AJaeger | Fdot, not at all: We extract the po files with our own tools | 08:38 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: no pb thanls a lot for your time | 08:39 |
| AJaeger | bye | 08:39 |
| Fdot | AJaeger: ok :/ | 08:39 |
| fifieldt | thanks! | 08:40 |
| Fdot | Is there anything somebody want to add to this topic ? | 08:40 |
| fifieldt | I think we've made good progress | 08:40 |
| Fdot | fifieldt: i think too :) | 08:40 |
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| Fdot | #topic Free discussion | 08:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Free discussion (Meeting topic: OpenStack I18n Meeting)" | 08:41 | |
| Fdot | I have a question for fifieldt | 08:41 |
| Fdot | do you know when is the string freeze for the documentation ? | 08:41 |
| fifieldt | ok? | 08:41 |
| fifieldt | erm, you mean when documentation "stops"? | 08:42 |
| Fdot | yes | 08:42 |
| fifieldt | it doesn't | 08:42 |
| Fdot | for juno of course :) | 08:42 |
| fifieldt | there is no string freeze for documentation | 08:42 |
| Fdot | and for the others project ? | 08:42 |
| fifieldt | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Juno_Release_Schedule | 08:42 |
| fifieldt | Sep 4 | 08:43 |
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| fifieldt | aka Juno-3 | 08:43 |
| Fdot | fifieldt: thanks a lot that's exactly what i was looking for :) | 08:43 |
| fifieldt | :) | 08:44 |
| ujuc | :) | 08:44 |
| Fdot | Any others questions ? :) | 08:44 |
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| Fdot | ok so let's close the meeting | 08:46 |
| Fdot | thanks a lot everybody for this rich discussion :) | 08:46 |
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| Fdot | have a good day / night ! | 08:46 |
| fifieldt | thanks Fdot! | 08:47 |
| adiantum | thank you =) | 08:47 |
| epico | thanks | 08:47 |
| ujuc | :Thanks | 08:47 |
| ujuc | :) | 08:47 |
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| Fdot | #endmeeting | 08:47 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:47 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 7 08:47:34 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:47 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-08-07-07.59.html | 08:47 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-08-07-07.59.txt | 08:47 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/openstack_i18n_meeting/2014/openstack_i18n_meeting.2014-08-07-07.59.log.html | 08:47 |
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| jorgem | good morning lbaas! | 13:59 |
| blogan | \o/ | 13:59 |
| jorgem | or afternoon…evening | 13:59 |
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| jorgem | hi xgerman | 14:00 |
| xgerman | hi jorgem | 14:00 |
| sbalukoff | Morning! | 14:00 |
| johnsom_ | Good morning | 14:00 |
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| evgenyf | hi | 14:00 |
| dougwig | o/ | 14:01 |
| vjay | hi | 14:01 |
| jorgem | #startmeeting lbaas neutron | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 7 14:01:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jorgem. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: lbaas neutron)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'lbaas_neutron' | 14:01 |
| jorgem | oops | 14:01 |
| jorgem | one sec | 14:01 |
| blogan | jorgem: fail, neutron lbaas | 14:01 |
| jorgem | lol | 14:01 |
| jorgem | #endmeeting | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 7 14:01:34 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/lbaas_neutron/2014/lbaas_neutron.2014-08-07-14.01.html | 14:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/lbaas_neutron/2014/lbaas_neutron.2014-08-07-14.01.txt | 14:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/lbaas_neutron/2014/lbaas_neutron.2014-08-07-14.01.log.html | 14:01 |
| jorgem | quick meeting guys! | 14:01 |
| blogan | those will be some interesting notes | 14:01 |
| jorgem | #startmeeting neutron lbaas | 14:01 |
| xgerman | mmh\ | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 7 14:01:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jorgem. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_lbaas' | 14:01 |
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| rm_work | o/ | 14:02 |
| jorgem | Here is the agenda for today #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/LBaaS#Agenda | 14:02 |
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| jorgem | #topic Review Updates | 14:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Updates (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:03 | |
| blogan | mestery: are you present? | 14:03 |
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| jorgem | Someone added "review politicking" | 14:04 |
| blogan | I did! | 14:04 |
| sbalukoff | Heh! | 14:04 |
| sbalukoff | blogan is an honest man. | 14:04 |
| ptoohill | hello | 14:04 |
| jorgem | go ahead blogan | 14:04 |
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| jorgem | hi ptoohill | 14:04 |
| blogan | well i was hoping mestery would be here | 14:04 |
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| xgerman | we need to summon him somehow | 14:05 |
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| * dougwig casts Summon PTL | 14:05 | |
| dougwig | he might still be sick. | 14:05 |
| blogan | but since he's not, we need to get more clarity on how to get this merged in and with all this GBP talk, will we follow the same path that is decided with that? | 14:05 |
| jorgem | well why don't we wait until he is summoned and move this topic to the end of the meeting for now | 14:06 |
| dougwig | the short form is, keep reviewing. we're all worried that with review load, v2 won't get reviewed in time. notice the gob thread, same issue. | 14:06 |
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| xgerman | well, then we take our ball and play somewhere else | 14:07 |
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| jorgem | okay next topic until mestery is summoned | 14:07 |
| jorgem | #topic Separating deployment and operational status | 14:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Separating deployment and operational status (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:08 | |
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| dougwig | i'd like to point out up front that the outcome of this should be expected for kilo, not juno. | 14:08 |
| blogan | this one is pretty simple, its just the fact separate status fields are needed for different types of statuses | 14:08 |
| blogan | dougwig: yes indeed | 14:09 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:09 |
| sbalukoff | Yep, agreed. Also agreed on Kilo timeframe. | 14:09 |
| blogan | so which entities have the operational status? | 14:09 |
| blogan | pool and members? | 14:09 |
| xgerman | all? | 14:09 |
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| vjay | listener, pool and members? | 14:10 |
| sbalukoff | Yea, you can have an operational status for listener, too. | 14:10 |
| dougwig | pool, member, listener, and lb would be my take. | 14:10 |
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| vjay | what would lb operational status reflect? | 14:10 |
| sbalukoff | And yes, LB as well. | 14:10 |
| dougwig | if all listeners are dead (or some minimum number) | 14:10 |
| sbalukoff | "Is the VIP deployed on anything" | 14:10 |
| vjay | VIP deployed ins deployment status | 14:11 |
| jorgem | how about ONLINE, OFFLINE for operational statuses? | 14:11 |
| vjay | s/ins/is | 14:11 |
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| jorgem | that seems clearer to me | 14:11 |
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| jorgem | ACTIVE is already part of deployment statuses | 14:11 |
| blogan | im fine with offline/online | 14:11 |
| dougwig | i think we want a longer list, or a description field for more detail (i.e. slow response, expired cert, ...) | 14:11 |
| * mestery stumbles in, but has been down with a nasty cold this week ... | 14:12 | |
| vjay | would it be helpful to say DEGRADED as well in operational status? | 14:12 |
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| xgerman | I like ERROR, too | 14:12 |
| dougwig | o/ mestery | 14:12 |
| jorgem | hi mestery! While we have you let's go back to our first topic | 14:12 |
| mestery | jorgem: ack | 14:12 |
| jorgem | thank you for joining | 14:12 |
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| xgerman | mestery o/ | 14:12 |
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| jorgem | #Topic Review politicking (How likely is v2 to actually get merged in?) | 14:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review politicking (How likely is v2 to actually get merged in?) (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:12 | |
| jorgem | blogan: the floor is yours again | 14:13 |
| blogan | mestery: some of us are getting a bit worried that v2 may not have enough time to get reviewed thoroughly to get in | 14:13 |
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| blogan | mestery: what is your take on it? | 14:13 |
| mestery | blogan: I think from a review perspective, we have enough runway, as we can ramp people. | 14:13 |
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| mestery | I think the larger concern is the GBP discussion, and how that might afffect LBaaS V2 | 14:13 |
| blogan | mestery: also it seems there are corrolations to be made between the GBP talk and the lbaas v2 API | 14:14 |
| mestery | blogan: ++ | 14:14 |
| mestery | I'm working on a solution to both of these (LBaaS v2 and GBP) issues now. | 14:14 |
| blogan | is it safe to assume we will both share the same fate? | 14:14 |
| mestery | blogan: That seems pretty likely, yes. | 14:14 |
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| dougwig | anything we can do in the meantime, or are we stuck in gerrit limbo? | 14:15 |
| mestery | One idea we've had is to create a new git repository under the networking program for experimental APIs | 14:15 |
| mestery | With a clear path on how to graduate into the main neutron repo | 14:15 |
| mestery | That woudl allow for fast iteration and reviews there, with a path forward into neutron. | 14:15 |
| mestery | It's an early idea, but something we're thinking about. | 14:15 |
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| mestery | The alternative is to have the experimental directory be directly in the neutron tree I think | 14:16 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:16 |
| sbalukoff | I take it that path wouldn't be subject to the whole "no 5000-line commits" rule of thumb? | 14:16 |
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| mestery | sbalukoff: ++ | 14:16 |
| blogan | mestery: i assume neutron core will still be responsible for reviewing every commit in the experiemental apis, in neutron tree or outside? | 14:17 |
| mestery | blogan: Yes, that's the plan. | 14:17 |
| mestery | But hopefully we can iterate faster there, and the part we need to nail down is the clear path into the main repo. | 14:17 |
| blogan | mestery: so if it is outside the tree, it would still require neutron core +2's to get into that outside tree? | 14:17 |
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| jorgem | or have separate +2's? | 14:18 |
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| dougwig | neutron does have this schizophrenic split of needing to be mature/stable and also needing to gofastgofastgofastgofast. a function of its rather broad mandate. | 14:18 |
| mestery | blogan: That was the initial thought, because it would be under the networking program still | 14:18 |
| mestery | dougwig: Exactly | 14:18 |
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| mestery | To be honest, this was something we were looking at proposing in Kilo, we may need to expedite the plans now. | 14:18 |
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| jorgem | mestery: How would velocity increase if there is a limit on the core reviewers time? I feel the core reviewers have a lot on their plates. | 14:19 |
| mestery | jorgem: That's a valid concern, and perhaps we give some additinoal people +2 on the experimental repo, maybe one from each project, etc. | 14:19 |
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| mestery | That would most certainly help | 14:19 |
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| blogan | mestery: I think i misunderstood that projects under the networking program that were not in neutron would be able to self-govern themselves | 14:19 |
| jorgem | mestery: Okay one additional +2 on each project makes sense | 14:19 |
| dougwig | jorgem: just a guess, but a dedicated experimental area likely has less stringent review requirements than a stable base. | 14:20 |
| xgerman | so we are talking lbaas being spun out here | 14:20 |
| xgerman | ? | 14:20 |
| mestery | xgerman: Not spun out, but put into an incubator for eventual inclusion. | 14:20 |
| mestery | Again, I should stress we're just discussing this now, we haven't come to a firm conclusion yet. | 14:20 |
| mestery | But getting the LBaaS team's feedback woudl be good | 14:20 |
| blogan | dougwig: if the goal is to get into neutron tree, and the reviews are less stringent, then that means when it is time to get back into the neutron review it'd be like the neutron cores had to review one massive patch | 14:20 |
| xgerman | ok, with own reviewers + own repo it feels pretty autonomous :-) | 14:21 |
| jorgem | mestery: If anything someone will be decided by next summit I'm 'thinking? | 14:21 |
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| jorgem | something* | 14:21 |
| dougwig | blogan: not less stringent overall, but more flexible to, "this is incomplete, but throwing it in here increases iteration velocity, and fixed in a followup". more of a smaller company mindset. | 14:21 |
| dougwig | i'm not sure i'm communicating that well. | 14:21 |
| mestery | jorgem: I think we need to decide by next week if we try to do this, so lets see. | 14:21 |
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| jorgem | mestery: gotcha | 14:21 |
| mestery | dougwig: ++ | 14:21 |
| mestery | It's almost like the linux kernel model of development | 14:22 |
| mestery | A tree hiearchy | 14:22 |
| mestery | with lieutenants at each level | 14:22 |
| mestery | so that when it lands to neutron, it's already in a pretty good state | 14:22 |
| jorgem | mestery: I think for LBaaS we shouldn't do this for Juno since we tried to do this already to a degree. | 14:22 |
| mestery | It has tempest tests, etc. | 14:22 |
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| blogan | I feel like it could end up in being the stringent reviews get kicked down the road until its time to get into teh tree, and then when that time comes, reviews take even longer because there is a whole new API to review in full | 14:22 |
| mestery | jorgem: Understood, completely agree. | 14:22 |
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| jorgem | mestery: It kind of defeats the hackathon and everything we did | 14:22 |
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| xgerman | bloga n +1 | 14:22 |
| jorgem | sure one could treat it as a sunk cost but we all have deadlines on our side as well | 14:23 |
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| mestery | jorgem: I understand, like I said, this is mostly something we're thinking on. | 14:23 |
| xgerman | jorgem +1 | 14:23 |
| jorgem | What's everyone else thinking? | 14:23 |
| mestery | So, I'll keep you all posted on the discussions here. | 14:23 |
| jorgem | eveyone = lbaas people | 14:23 |
| xgerman | jorgem, as I said experimental area is like 50% spun out... | 14:24 |
| dougwig | blogan: well, something has to change. we complain that neutron is review bottlenecked, bounce around alternatives, and the final consensus always seem to be, "keep it in tree, and just work smarter!" and i'm not pointing the finger at just lbaas for that discussion model, look at how the community responded to mark's gbp proposal as well. and all the | 14:24 |
| dougwig | others. something *has* to change structurally. | 14:24 |
| sbalukoff | It's going to be severely diappointing not to see the LBaaS work we've done end up in Juno. | 14:24 |
| jorgem | xgerman: true but we almost have code in neutron code base which is the goal here. | 14:24 |
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| xgerman | sbalukoff +1 | 14:24 |
| jorgem | spinning out to get it in to neutron is one step back then forward again | 14:24 |
| xgerman | sadly, yes -- experimental area is a half step | 14:25 |
| blogan | in my opinion, i like the idea of it, if executed correctly it woudl be better for neutron stability and increase velocity, im just thinking of worst case scenario and common human behavior | 14:25 |
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| johnsom_ | I hope the process for getting code promoted is clear and well understood. | 14:26 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:26 |
| jorgem | So I'm guessing it's safe to say that the LBaaS community would like to get the code into Juno? Thus, this means not becoming experimental. Does anyone disagree? | 14:26 |
| rm_work | I'm not a huge fan, for reasons blogan already mentioned (kicking the stone down the road)… | 14:26 |
| xgerman | yep, we like to be grandfathered | 14:26 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: +1 | 14:26 |
| dougwig | jorge: i'm not a fan of pretending we can squeeze the stone harder and make water appear | 14:26 |
| vjay | jorgem: +1 | 14:26 |
| jorgem | xgerman: +1 | 14:26 |
| jorgem | dougwig: The idea is sound but I think we should be grandfathered in for the work we have completed thus far | 14:27 |
| mestery | OK, I need to go back to bed now, thanks for listening and I'll keep everyone updated here! | 14:27 |
| sbalukoff | dougwig: I'm not entirely sure it's a stone just yet. But it's certainly getting harder. | 14:27 |
| jorgem | mestery: thanks get better! | 14:27 |
| mestery | jorgem: Thanks! | 14:27 |
| blogan | mestery: thanks | 14:28 |
| xgerman | mestery: thanks | 14:28 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks! | 14:28 |
| dougwig | we have a very long review chain, more coming, and iterations we want/need to do on top of that. i'm not sure wishing all of that into juno is realistic (if it is, great.) | 14:28 |
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| * blogan casts banishment spell on mestery | 14:28 | |
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| dougwig | thanks mestery, feel better | 14:28 |
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| jorgem | dougwig: Perhaps define which items to grandfather and which to not??? | 14:28 |
| blogan | dougwig: i agree with you, seeing is believing on the reviews getting in | 14:28 |
| jorgem | dougwig: If, of course, the community moves in that direction | 14:29 |
| xgerman | yeah, we should make a prioritized list | 14:29 |
| xgerman | of changes to approve | 14:29 |
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| dougwig | i would rather increase velocity and have to do "apt-get install neutron-lbaas" than pretend there is no problem and get punted to kilo. we have a lot of reviews, but at the end of the day, it's kind of a big lump pill to swallow; it doesn't slice up well. | 14:30 |
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| tmc3inphilly | Let me see if i get this straight, some do not want it in Neutron for Juno, yet they do not want to spin it out on its own? Are we talking code pergatory? | 14:30 |
| dougwig | i think we all want it in neutron for juno. | 14:31 |
| dougwig | we're just talking damage control at this point. | 14:31 |
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| sbalukoff | dougwig is just trying to be reasonable. | 14:31 |
| sbalukoff | I say we throw a temper tantrum and see where that gets us. ;) | 14:31 |
| xgerman | I have no problem with being unreasonable | 14:31 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff:to whom? | 14:31 |
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| tmc3inphilly | it isn't like we are going to check in 87878787878787 lines of code for each release right? This is a temporary problem for this release. | 14:32 |
| jorgem | Okay, I guess we can join the HUGE ML thread on this. | 14:32 |
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| xgerman | I only read things tagged with [LBAAS] | 14:32 |
| jorgem | There are obviously a lot of opinions and concerns so maybe we can address them there? | 14:32 |
| rm_work | xgerman: +1, I was *born* to be unreasonable | 14:32 |
| sbalukoff | There's a lot of politicking going on in that thread. :/ | 14:33 |
| dougwig | tmc3inphilly: think of the unfinished reviews we have for just juno: driver agent, full tis support, l7 routing, driver shim, horizon support | 14:33 |
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| blogan | dougwig: i abandoned the shim beacuse it wasn't complete and work stopped on it completely | 14:33 |
| jorgem | Everyone okay with moving to next topic? | 14:33 |
| blogan | yes | 14:33 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:33 |
| blogan | come back to this when mestery gets more details | 14:33 |
| jorgem | #topic Separating deployment and operational status | 14:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Separating deployment and operational status (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:34 | |
| xgerman | or we get blogan to be neutron core :-) | 14:34 |
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| dougwig | blogan: right, exactly my point that we're nowhere near done with the v2 refactor. it's not like we have some known quantity to shove into juno and we're done with neutron reviews forever. | 14:34 |
| jorgem | K, anything else on statuses? | 14:34 |
| sbalukoff | By the way, the 'throw a temper tantrum' comment was tongue in cheek. | 14:34 |
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| sbalukoff | (Written medium, sarcasm doesn't translate well. Sorry.) | 14:34 |
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| blogan | sbalukoff: i could you see you throwing a tantrum | 14:35 |
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| xgerman | blogan +1 | 14:35 |
| sbalukoff | To be honest, I think status is going to have to be expanded upon when we start to have shared entities. But I don't think we necessarily need to solve that problem now. | 14:35 |
| dougwig | +1 | 14:35 |
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| sbalukoff | In any case, there's definitely a need for operational and deployment status to be separate. | 14:35 |
| xgerman | we should also get in line with the other stauses in Neutron | 14:36 |
| jorgem | xgerman: unless we are experimental! | 14:36 |
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| blogan | xgerman: could you elaborate? | 14:36 |
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| xgerman | I think we need to research what firewall, etc. are doing to not confuse users | 14:36 |
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| jorgem | xgerman: fair enough | 14:37 |
| blogan | i don't even know if they are async APIs | 14:37 |
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| blogan | so yes more research | 14:37 |
| blogan | +1 xgerman | 14:37 |
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| samuelbercovici | we have started this discussion at the beginnign of the cycle and decided to push it for K and to not share objects. I think this is still a good choice | 14:37 |
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| dougwig | i think at the meetup mark also suggested a potential strategy of adding stats() everywhere and adding some operational details to it. | 14:38 |
| dougwig | samuelbercovici: +1 | 14:38 |
| samuelbercovici | is there a reason to open this before K? | 14:38 |
| blogan | samuelbercovici: this won't happen in Juno at all, its just a discussion for what to do in K | 14:38 |
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| jorgem | Okay let's move on to Juno items then? | 14:38 |
| vjay | sure | 14:38 |
| jorgem | #topic Calling driver interface on every API request | 14:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Calling driver interface on every API request (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:38 | |
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| sbalukoff | blogan actually elaborated on why this isn't practical in the openstack-lbaas channel a couple days ago. | 14:39 |
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| sbalukoff | Care to repeat, blogan? | 14:39 |
| blogan | sbalukoff yes | 14:39 |
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| blogan | currently its not practical because the loadbalancer entity is what decides what driver to go to | 14:40 |
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| blogan | so if something is not linked to a loadbalancer, there's no way to know what driver to go to, and since we support multiple providers/drivers then we can't get around this | 14:40 |
| sbalukoff | And in the future it still won't be practical because loadbalancer entity in conjunction with flavor and service_profile will determine that. :) | 14:40 |
| vjay | ok. that explains a lot. | 14:41 |
| blogan | however, if we link all entities to a provider/driver individually, then this can be done | 14:41 |
| blogan | yeah just substitute provider/driver with flavor | 14:41 |
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| sbalukoff | And that seems like a bad idea from a portability perspective to me. | 14:41 |
| vjay | just thinking out loud, is it ok to create entities with respect to a loadbalancer/listener | 14:41 |
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| blogan | sbalukoff: i've thought of some pros and cons to this, but more thought needs to be put into it | 14:42 |
| sbalukoff | blogan: I'd love to hear those pros and cons. :) | 14:42 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: What do you mean? | 14:42 |
| blogan | vjay: what do you mean? | 14:42 |
| blogan | lol | 14:42 |
| vjay | instead of creating pool as an independent entity | 14:43 |
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| vjay | can it have a listener or loadbalancer id? | 14:43 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: you put me on the spot i had pros of it when i was thinking about it last night but its too early for me, and they were really good pros, I PROMISE! | 14:43 |
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| dougwig | you mean have a required root object? i'd love that. the community wanted all the entities to be independent root objects for some reason. | 14:43 |
| xgerman | take notes of your ideas :-) | 14:43 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: That puts us in a position where introducing shared objects later is going to be problematic. | 14:44 |
| blogan | vjay: currently it cannot, and the reason the pool_id is on the listener is for the plan in the future to allow 1:M listener to pool relationship | 14:44 |
| * vjay thinking | 14:44 | |
| sbalukoff | Is it really that hard to create / update all those objects at once, once we finally have an association with a load balancer? | 14:45 |
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| xgerman | sba;ukoff +1 | 14:45 |
| rm_work | dougwig: SOME of the community wanted that | 14:45 |
| vjay | i think it boils down to definition of pools | 14:45 |
| rm_work | we wanted everything to be under a LB object, IIRC :P | 14:45 |
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| vjay | if pool is considered as a collection of members. | 14:45 |
| vjay | not associated with a loadbalancer | 14:45 |
| dougwig | sbalukoff: no, but it does add a fair bit of code complexity up and down the chain. that means added bugs, for currently no gain (my bias is leaking again.) | 14:46 |
| vjay | then for ex. the stats should be retain when a pool is attached and reattached to another loadbalancer | 14:46 |
| rm_work | yeah, I kinda thought we weren't even trying to create anything until it was linked to a listener / LB and was ready to serve traffic | 14:46 |
| rm_work | I don't see the point of provisioning anything before that | 14:46 |
| xgerman | +1 | 14:46 |
| samuelbercovici | +1 | 14:47 |
| dougwig | rm_work: that's a driver decision. as long as you know which driver, which was the ultimate reason we defer. | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: It might not be useful to retain stats on a 'per pool' basis if the pool can be shared. :/ | 14:47 |
| rm_work | :( | 14:47 |
| crc32 | +1 | 14:47 |
| sbalukoff | As in, it might make sense to have stats on a pool only within the context of a loadbalancer + listener. | 14:47 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: i agree on that, though i know people have wanted stats per pool | 14:47 |
| samuelbercovici | sbalukoff: recall my proposal on how to persist status and stats | 14:47 |
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| sbalukoff | In which case, you don't need to retain stats for a pool in the long run across config changes. | 14:48 |
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| xgerman | stats per pool won't work if a pool is attaced to more than one listener | 14:48 |
| sbalukoff | samuelbercovici: Sorry I've forgotten that proposal (I have a terrible memory) | 14:48 |
| dougwig | xgerman: sure they will. they'll just be additive. | 14:48 |
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| vjay | also, lets say if driver does not support a certain aspect of a child entity. for ex. some monitor protocol is not supportted. The driver will thrown an error during create of listener, than create of monitor. | 14:48 |
| sbalukoff | xgerman: Or, it becomes a dictionary, which probably has less meaning to an end user | 14:48 |
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| dougwig | vjay: oh, that's an interesting point. | 14:49 |
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| blogan | samuelbercovici: you mean having all the stasuses of children enetities on the loadbalancer? | 14:49 |
| sbalukoff | vjay: Deployment errors should be bubbled up, IMO. | 14:49 |
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| jorgem | if we have stats on a listener object, why can't you add the listener stats to get pool stats (assuming shared pool)? | 14:50 |
| dougwig | vjay: that would work today, but blogan, that's a reason to be careful about automatic driver status. | 14:50 |
| jorgem | if the user really wanted that (I don't no why) they could easily do it.\ | 14:50 |
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| jorgem | T - 10 mins | 14:50 |
| xgerman | yeah, we might need to defer that to the ML | 14:51 |
| vjay | ok. | 14:51 |
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| vjay | there is still one more item in the agenda | 14:51 |
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| jorgem | okay last topic of the day | 14:51 |
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| jorgem | #topic Octavia Update | 14:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Octavia Update (Meeting topic: neutron lbaas)" | 14:51 | |
| jorgem | sbalukoff: ? | 14:51 |
| dougwig | i just wanted to do this: | 14:51 |
| dougwig | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/042232.html | 14:51 |
| jorgem | dougwig: Thanks. | 14:52 |
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| blogan | yeah I don't think octavia should be discussed here, unless it deals with integrating octavia with neutron lbaas | 14:52 |
| blogan | that is my opinion though | 14:52 |
| jorgem | I guess we are done then unless anyone has something else to bring up. | 14:52 |
| blogan | since octavia has its own meeting | 14:52 |
| jorgem | Anything else? | 14:52 |
| blogan | do we have any action items? | 14:52 |
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| sbalukoff | Um... octavia update? | 14:53 |
| blogan | sbalukoff: ^^^ | 14:53 |
| sbalukoff | blogan +1 | 14:53 |
| jorgem | #action Read up on the Neutron ML thread (everyone) | 14:53 |
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| jorgem | haha okay well that's wraps it up then. | 14:53 |
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| jorgem | Thanks for playing! | 14:53 |
| xgerman | should we make reseraching stsatus in advanced services an action item? | 14:53 |
| blogan | bye everyone | 14:53 |
| sbalukoff | Thanks, y'all! | 14:53 |
| rm_work | o/ | 14:53 |
| jorgem | #endmeeting | 14:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:53 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 7 14:53:49 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:53 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-08-07-14.01.html | 14:53 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-08-07-14.01.txt | 14:53 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_lbaas/2014/neutron_lbaas.2014-08-07-14.01.log.html | 14:53 |
| rm_work | xgerman: apparently no one cares :P | 14:53 |
| rm_work | xgerman: T_T | 14:53 |
| jorgem | oops sorry xgerman lol | 14:54 |
| blogan | xgerman: ill come up with a pros and cons list for some of the unresolevd issues | 14:54 |
| xgerman | thanks blogan | 14:54 |
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| sbalukoff | Thanks, blogan! | 14:54 |
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| dougwig | #action power nap | 14:55 |
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| sbalukoff | dougwig: +1 | 14:55 |
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| eglynn | #startmeeting ceilometer | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Thu Aug 7 15:00:07 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is eglynn. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ceilometer' | 15:00 |
| eglynn | hey y'all! | 15:00 |
| tongli | hello. | 15:00 |
| ildikov | o/ | 15:00 |
| fabiog_ | o/ | 15:00 |
| cdent | hola | 15:00 |
| llu-laptop | o/ | 15:00 |
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| _nadya_ | hi! | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | #topic juno-3 planning | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "juno-3 planning (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:01 | |
| eglynn | #link https://launchpad.net/ceilometer/+milestone/juno-3 | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | let's focus in on the 2 blocked BPs | 15:01 |
| eglynn | first the bigger-data-sql ... seems there's a new patchset pending, but converging on agreement? | 15:01 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/101009 | 15:01 |
| DinaBelova | o/ | 15:01 |
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| eglynn | gordc, cdent: does it feel like convergence? | 15:02 |
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| sileht | o/ | 15:02 |
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| cdent | gordc just posted some new comment saying it seems pretty okay, but may have some issues with meter reads, so a bit more poking to come, but it is heading in the right direction | 15:02 |
| cdent | (specially meter-list performance) | 15:03 |
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| eglynn | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ceilometer-big-data-pt2 | 15:03 |
| nealph | o. | 15:03 |
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| eglynn | that's the latest proposal basically ^^^ ? | 15:03 |
| cdent | there's active code here: https://review.openstack.org/111313 | 15:03 |
| cdent | the decision was that there was no way to reach the ideal schema by thinking along, real code was required | 15:04 |
| cdent | what's implemented there is very close to what's in the etherpad | 15:04 |
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| eglynn | cool, so we need to get the spec lined up the etherpad and the PoC code in order to get it landed, amiright? | 15:04 |
| cdent | reckon so, yes | 15:05 |
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| eglynn | cdent: cool, I'll follow up with gordc after the meeting | 15:06 |
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| eglynn | next central-agent-partitioning ... we have too alternative proposals | 15:06 |
| eglynn | we've done a preso/hangout on each this week | 15:06 |
| eglynn | so it really is decision time now | 15:06 |
| * eglynn pastes links for each approach ... | 15:06 | |
| eglynn | (prepare for flood!) | 15:06 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/101282 | 15:06 |
| eglynn | #link http://www.slideshare.net/FabioGiannetti/ceilometer-central-agent-activeactive-ha-proposal | 15:06 |
| eglynn | #link https://review.openstack.org/111978 | 15:06 |
| eglynn | #link http://www.slideshare.net/EoghanGlynn/hash-based-central-agent-workload-partitioning-37760440 | 15:06 |
| fabiog_ | eglynn: can we have some clarifications on the Tooz future support? | 15:07 |
| eglynn | can everyone who cares about this feature (e.g. attended the hangouts or participated in the reviews already) please "nail their colours to the mast" on gerrit before EoD today? | 15:07 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, ok, will be done :) | 15:07 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, actually I wonder what will be the answer on the fabiog_ quesiton here | 15:08 |
| ildikov | eglynn: I'm kinda waiting for the answer of that question that Fabio has just asked and also asked by you on gerrit | 15:08 |
| eglynn | fabiog_: since you posed the question on gerrit already, I'll ask jd__ to respond there | 15:08 |
| DinaBelova | ildikov, ++ | 15:08 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, thank you sir | 15:08 |
| jd__ | o/ | 15:08 |
| DinaBelova | jd__, good evening :) | 15:08 |
| eglynn | jd__: question on https://review.openstack.org/101282 about future maintainership of tooz | 15:09 |
| eglynn | jd__: sorry wrong link! ... https://review.openstack.org/111978 | 15:09 |
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| eglynn | let's complete that discussion on gerrit | 15:10 |
| jd__ | it has support for harlowj and it's going to be put under the Oslo maintenance | 15:10 |
| jd__ | s/for/from/ | 15:10 |
| jd__ | same as stevedore, etc… | 15:10 |
| eglynn | jd__: a-ha, cool, that's good news about the oslo aspect | 15:11 |
| DinaBelova | jd__, thanks for the clarification | 15:11 |
| jd__ | we're just waiting for some projects to use it before moving it under Oslo | 15:11 |
| fabiog_ | jd__: thanks, this helps | 15:11 |
| jd__ | and I'm working as we speak as using it with Nova | 15:11 |
| jd__ | (to replace their custome implementation of memcached/zookeeper) | 15:11 |
| _nadya_ | jd__: what projects? :) | 15:11 |
| jd__ | _nadya_: Nova and Neutron are first in sight last time I checked | 15:12 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: nova | 15:12 |
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| DinaBelova | jd__, I remember kind of this mailing thread - am I right it was already started? | 15:12 |
| jd__ | there might be more I'm not aware of | 15:12 |
| _nadya_ | cool | 15:12 |
| jd__ | it's likely that a lot of project have crafted custom solutions that are not so robust and would have a better usage of tooz, but we'll see | 15:12 |
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| jd__ | and Ceilometer obviously :) | 15:12 |
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| eglynn | jd__: and on the cards also, possibly new tooz drivers? (e.g. based on olso-messaging) | 15:13 |
| jd__ | sure thing, we just need someone to write them | 15:13 |
| jd__ | it's not on my priority list, though if I get bored, you never know… | 15:13 |
| jd__ | :) | 15:14 |
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| eglynn | fabiog_: it that sufficient information about tooz future status? | 15:14 |
| fabiog_ | eglynn: sure. I think it responds to my concern | 15:14 |
| eglynn | fabiog_: excellent! | 15:15 |
| eglynn | jd__: thank you sir! | 15:15 |
| jd__ | you're welcome ladies and gentlmen | 15:15 |
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| eglynn | ok, apart from those 2 blocked BPs, does anyone have any concerns about any other stuff target'd for juno-3? | 15:15 |
| jd__ | Gnocchi dispatcher? | 15:16 |
| * jd__ whispers | 15:16 | |
| ildikov | jd__: I have several excuses, none of them is good enough for mentioning it here... | 15:16 |
| jd__ | :-) | 15:16 |
| eglynn | ildikov: are you still confident that it's do-able in the j-3 timeframe? | 15:17 |
| ildikov | if anyone would like to jump in, I will not kill him/her, otherwise, I'm on it, just had some environmental issues to fix | 15:17 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: cool, understood! :) | 15:17 |
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| ildikov | eglynn: it has to be regardless my concerns... | 15:18 |
| ildikov | eglynn: still 4 weeks, right? | 15:18 |
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| eglynn | ildikov: yep 4 weeks from today | 15:18 |
| ildikov | eglynn: cool, tnx | 15:18 |
| eglynn | OK, shall we move on? | 15:18 |
| fabiog_ | eglynn: I responded already in Gerrit ;-) | 15:18 |
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| eglynn | fabiog_: thank you sir! | 15:19 |
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| eglynn | #topic Ironic conductor ipmi -> ceilometer saga (punted from last week) | 15:19 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ironic conductor ipmi -> ceilometer saga (punted from last week) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:19 | |
| eglynn | cdent: the floor is your's sir! | 15:19 |
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| cdent | I think we can punt this one further down, unless any is gasping for it. | 15:20 |
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| eglynn | cdent: k ... Haomeng's patch has now landed amiright? | 15:20 |
| cdent | yes | 15:20 |
| eglynn | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ironic/+spec/send-data-to-ceilometer | 15:20 |
| eglynn | cool, let's return to that so | 15:20 |
| eglynn | #topic Tempest status | 15:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tempest status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:20 | |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: your mongodb experimental job landed, nice work! | 15:21 |
| DinaBelova | thank you sir :) | 15:21 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, it behaves quite nice :) | 15:21 |
| DinaBelova | I encourage everyone who have ceilo changes to comment "check experimental" on your patches | 15:21 |
| DinaBelova | and see what will happen | 15:21 |
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| DinaBelova | currently this job has experimental status and needs to be run manually | 15:22 |
| eglynn | great! ... so maybe we could consider switching the main tempest job to mongodb if it continues to behave nicely for the next say week or so? | 15:22 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, I hope so, yes | 15:22 |
| llu-laptop | DinaBelova: so the magic cast is 'check experimental', literally? | 15:22 |
| DinaBelova | llu-laptop, yes | 15:23 |
| llu-laptop | good | 15:23 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: so se could potentially swap the status of sql-a and mongodb in the gate? | 15:23 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, well, if TC and over community won't be agians - why not, actually | 15:23 |
| DinaBelova | that will work faster and more stable I guess | 15:23 |
| eglynn | i.e. mongodb becomes the main "blessed" job while sql-a becomes the second-tier | 15:23 |
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| eglynn | since that the reality in terms of what is recommended by distros for production | 15:24 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, yeah, I got your idea - that lgtm actually, but we need QA team blessing here :) | 15:24 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: cool :) ... I'll raise at the project meeting next Tuesday | 15:24 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynnm thank you sir - I'll try to attend - but it's late a little bit for me, so can't promise :) | 15:24 |
| eglynn | #action eglynn raise blessing the mongodb-based tempest variant at PTL meeting | 15:24 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: np! | 15:25 |
| DinaBelova | :) | 15:25 |
| eglynn | cool, this feels like real progress :) | 15:25 |
| eglynn | k, anything else on Tempest? | 15:25 |
| DinaBelova | also I've raised this question yesterday, but not all of us was aware, so I'll say one more thing here | 15:25 |
| eglynn | shoot! | 15:25 |
| DinaBelova | we have notification tempest patches -2'ed - https://review.openstack.org/67164 and https://review.openstack.org/70998 | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | that | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | that is because of unstable gate tests passing here | 15:26 |
| _nadya_ | nice :) | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | sometimes notifications are just not comint | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | coming* | 15:26 |
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| DinaBelova | _nadya_, hehe | 15:26 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn - as I remember, you even disabled nova notifications now to keep gate more or less stable | 15:27 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: yes, I think these will have to be moved to the new in-tree functional tests | 15:27 |
| _nadya_ | not comming or not sent? | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | _nadya_, that actually is a good quesiton | 15:27 |
| DinaBelova | vrovachev could not reprouce it locally | 15:27 |
| eglynn | _nadya_: not arriving and persistent in the metering store in time I thought? | 15:27 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, yes, at least it looks so after the logs surfing | 15:28 |
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| DinaBelova | but we have no actual data to say - 'yes, it is so' - as it was not actually reproduced | 15:28 |
| DinaBelova | locally | 15:28 |
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| eglynn | k, I think we're kind of blocked on that one unless we it's simply collector latency that would not be such an impact if the main tempest job were re-based on mongodb? | 15:29 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, yes, exactly | 15:29 |
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| ildikov | sounds more like an environmental or load related issue tho' | 15:29 |
| gordc | DinaBelova: have you tried just bumping up the number of collector workers? | 15:30 |
| eglynn | it's very hard to know without fully reproducing the Jenkins slave | 15:30 |
| DinaBelova | gordc, don't remember actually - I thought Vadim had tried different combinations... | 15:31 |
| _nadya_ | ildikov: yep | 15:31 |
| eglynn | gordc: that could be tried, tho' the tests would also have to unskipped to confirm | 15:31 |
| ildikov | eglynn: I know that is why I said sounds like :( | 15:31 |
| DinaBelova | ildikov, +1 | 15:31 |
| llu-laptop | in that case, should we postpone the patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/80225/ until we're sure that the notification won't get lost, at least not change the default publisher until then | 15:31 |
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| gordc | eglynn: yeah, i'm not sure if its' helpful much either... might just be masking issue by incresaing workers. | 15:31 |
| eglynn | llu-laptop: can't we verify that wil local tempest runs? | 15:32 |
| gordc | would be good if there were logs for mq | 15:32 |
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| eglynn | gordc: k, worth experimenting with in any case I think | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | gordc, YES, for sure | 15:32 |
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| eglynn | k, let's move on with the agenda | 15:32 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, ok | 15:32 |
| eglynn | #topic TSDaaS/gnocchi status | 15:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "TSDaaS/gnocchi status (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:32 | |
| * eglynn passes the conch to jd__ ... | 15:33 | |
| jd__ | nothing really knew on that side for this week | 15:33 |
| jd__ | s/knew/new/ | 15:33 |
| * DinaBelova whispers that initial python-opentsdbclient version was merged | 15:33 | |
| jd__ | I've started to work on the archiving policy we discussed at mid-cycle | 15:33 |
| jd__ | cool DinaBelova | 15:34 |
| eglynn | jd__: cool | 15:34 |
| jd__ | and I'm also working on tooz wrt the file driver we have in Gnocchi | 15:34 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: I also had a quick peek at the opentsdb driver | 15:34 |
| DinaBelova | so I rewritten opentsdb driver change to fit it | 15:34 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, oh, cool | 15:34 |
| jd__ | finger crossed I'll have a first implementation of the archive policy patch for next week | 15:34 |
| jd__ | s/finger/fingers/ | 15:34 |
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| eglynn | jd__: excellent! | 15:34 |
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| eglynn | DinaBelova: so one thought that occurred is that we should think again out about what we consider the set of "standard aggregates" to be | 15:35 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, also I found one really interesting guy who used opentsdb much with ceilo - they have rewritten ceilo actually - so I'm trying to reach him for some experience here | 15:35 |
| eglynn | DinaBelova: (given that opentsdb doesn't support median etc.) | 15:35 |
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| DinaBelova | eglynn, yeah, I found this moment too | 15:35 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:35 |
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| eglynn | FYI on a more general point, I was asked to explain the background on gnocchi to the TC | 15:36 |
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| eglynn | ... this ML thread is a precursor to that conversation | 15:36 |
| eglynn | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/042080.html | 15:36 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, yes, I saw the e-mail | 15:36 |
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| eglynn | that'll prolly be at the TC meeting next week, if there's space on the agenda | 15:37 |
| eglynn | k, anything else to discuss on gnocchi folks? | 15:38 |
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| eglynn | cdent: shall we un-punt IPMI in that case? | 15:38 |
| eglynn | #topic Ironic conductor ipmi -> ceilometer saga (punted from earlier in the meeting) | 15:39 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Ironic conductor ipmi -> ceilometer saga (punted from earlier in the meeting) (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:39 | |
| * eglynn passes conch to cdent ... | 15:39 | |
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| cdent | The basic gist there is looking for advice on what to do when code on the ceilo side has to work with code on another project's side and that other side has insufficient testing such that simple runtime bugs are being shown up by my own manual testing. | 15:40 |
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| cdent | I wonder if people have good ways of "managing" that. | 15:40 |
| cdent | (that's runtime bugs in the other side's code) | 15:40 |
| eglynn | so I guess the obvious one is to draw attention to this testing deficit on gerrit | 15:40 |
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| eglynn | (which I think you've already done) | 15:40 |
| eglynn | the less obvious approach is to jump in and start the ball rolling on the other project | 15:41 |
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| eglynn | i.e. by raising it on their meeting agenda | 15:41 |
| eglynn | or even by authoring and proposing patches with tests | 15:42 |
| eglynn | though that involves obviously a big investment of time | 15:42 |
| jd__ | send patches with unit tests + fixes to the other project, pointing how they suck? ;) | 15:42 |
| cdent | you're so graceful jd__ :) | 15:42 |
| jd__ | at least reporting a bug with a basic test in it on how to reproduce is a good thing | 15:42 |
| jd__ | because sometimes you don't have the time or knowledge to fix it | 15:43 |
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| jd__ | but most devs will feel the shame and will try to fix it since you provided a good way to reproduce it | 15:43 |
| jd__ | :) | 15:43 |
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| eglynn | so I think the telling them, and then telling them again, will get you so far ... | 15:44 |
| eglynn | ... but jumping in and actually leading by example can be a more powerful motivator for the other project | 15:44 |
| jd__ | yes | 15:44 |
| cdent | ✓ | 15:44 |
| * cdent worries about spread | 15:44 | |
| jd__ | the good strategy is to give everything you can and terminate by "how can I help more?" | 15:44 |
| jd__ | that pushes the other dev to do something so you can help, and things move on :) | 15:44 |
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| eglynn | jd__: good point ... a helpful tone tends to be welcomed, whereas snark tends to be counter-productive | 15:45 |
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| * jd__ nods | 15:45 | |
| eglynn | cdent: by "spread", you mean spreading cdent too thinly? | 15:46 |
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| eglynn | cdent: yeah, I hear ya ... it's a balancing act to be sure | 15:46 |
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| cdent | (yes, on spread) In the particular case the response I got was the it was basically impossible to unit test the particular path that was (multiple times) causing problems. | 15:46 |
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| cdent | Which suggests there's some kind of infrastructure problem that perhaps in-tree functional testing could help with, eventually. | 15:47 |
| eglynn | cdent: you were unsatisified with that answer? ... i.e. felt it would/might be possible? | 15:47 |
| eglynn | cdent: a-ha, yes, got it | 15:47 |
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| * eglynn hopes we as a community are not starting to cargo-cult the new in-tree functional testing ... | 15:48 | |
| * eglynn meant that half in jest :) | 15:48 | |
| cdent | it's a mythical savior, coming soon, probably around christmas | 15:48 |
| DinaBelova | cdent, :D | 15:49 |
| DinaBelova | yeah that looks quite mystical :) and mythical :) | 15:49 |
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| eglynn | cdent: let's codename the project "santa" :) | 15:49 |
| DinaBelova | eglynn, lol | 15:49 |
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| eglynn | cdent: do you feel you've enough to go on with the above discussion? | 15:51 |
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| cdent | yup, just wanted to get a feel for people's approaches | 15:52 |
| eglynn | cool | 15:52 |
| eglynn | #topic open discussion | 15:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: ceilometer)" | 15:52 | |
| ityaptin | Hi! One little update for performance tests. | 15:52 |
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| eglynn | ityaptin: cool | 15:52 |
| ityaptin | I'm prepare doc for getting start tests with oslo messaging | 15:52 |
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| ityaptin | https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXhZRXm8UoEN1kYt2NdZe7qyMb7pM9aW1kq5TuGz5lc/edit?usp=sharing | 15:53 |
| ityaptin | In doc there is plan for prepare for test and repository url | 15:53 |
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| eglynn | ityaptin: a-ha, so this would it make it possible for anyone to run that load test? | 15:53 |
| eglynn | (as requested by gordc last week) | 15:54 |
| ityaptin | If someone wants to trying perf tests and have questions or run into issues - please comment or edit) | 15:54 |
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| ityaptin | threoreticall yes) | 15:54 |
| eglynn | ityaptin: excellent, thanks! | 15:54 |
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| eglynn | it would be great if someone had time to try that | 15:54 |
| eglynn | once it's proven out, maybe we could put the content up on the wiki? | 15:54 |
| gordc | eglynn: i'm going to try to run it locally. of course it can't be compared to previous numbers since it's a diferent machine. | 15:56 |
| gordc | ityaptin: i may ping you tomorrow. haven't tried to run it yet. | 15:56 |
| ityaptin | yes, we can) Also we can add profiling graphs to wiki. They are very nice) | 15:56 |
| ityaptin | gordc - ok) | 15:56 |
| eglynn | gordc: excellent! :) | 15:56 |
| eglynn | wow, we've 3 whole minutes left in our slot | 15:57 |
| eglynn | ... that's unusual :) | 15:57 |
| llu-laptop | ityaptin: in step2, which file to create? | 15:57 |
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| ityaptin | file with db urls, like hbase://localhost:9090 | 15:58 |
| ityaptin | one at line | 15:58 |
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| ityaptin | It's used for configuration backend runtime) | 15:58 |
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| llu-laptop | ityaptin: got that, thanks | 15:58 |
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| eglynn | ok, thanks folks as always for a productive meeting | 15:59 |
| eglynn | ... let's call it a wrap! | 15:59 |
| eglynn | #endmeeting | 15:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Thu Aug 7 15:59:54 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-08-07-15.00.html | 15:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-08-07-15.00.txt | 15:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ceilometer/2014/ceilometer.2014-08-07-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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