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| anteaya | lifeless: if you are about, any percieved naming overlap with tripleo and a fledgling stackforge project entitlied tricircle? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117939/ | 01:39 |
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| anteaya | d'oh | 01:40 |
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| yamahata | hello | 05:00 |
| natarajk | hi | 05:00 |
| vishwanathj | Hello | 05:00 |
| yamahata | #startmeeting servicevm-device-manager | 05:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 05:00:36 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is yamahata. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 05:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 05:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'servicevm_device_manager' | 05:00 |
| yamahata | Do we have bob? | 05:01 |
| yamahata | let's give him minutes. | 05:01 |
| s3wong | hello | 05:01 |
| yamahata | s3wong: hello | 05:01 |
| s3wong | yamahata: it is a US holiday today - though bmelande isn't in US :-) | 05:02 |
| yamahata | labour day? | 05:02 |
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| vishwanathj | yes | 05:02 |
| yamahata | seems he's absent today. let's begin | 05:03 |
| yamahata | #topic Announcement | 05:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcement (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:03 | |
| yamahata | neutron feature freeze Sep 9. | 05:03 |
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| s3wong | yes | 05:04 |
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| yamahata | CSR1kv patch is merged. congrats to Bob. | 05:04 |
| yamahata | vyatta vrouter patch is still under review | 05:04 |
| yamahata | #action everyone review vrouter patch | 05:04 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/102336/ Implementation of Brocade Vyatta vRouter L3 Plugin | 05:04 |
| s3wong | unfortunately the service insertion patch got a -2 from markmccclain... | 05:05 |
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| yamahata | Neutron blueprint for Kilo will be open after RC1 | 05:05 |
| yamahata | So I'd like to have working reference implementation at that time. and update l3 routervm plugin. I hope. | 05:05 |
| yamahata | s3wong: that's bad. service insertion is really wanted. | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | I uploaded WIP patch at gerrit | 05:06 |
| yamahata | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/116773/ WIP: router vm l3 plugin/driver/agent | 05:06 |
| s3wong | yamahata: according to enikanorov_ during last week's adv service meeting, flavor is unlikely to make it neither | 05:06 |
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| yamahata | Oh, flavour framework too. | 05:07 |
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| s3wong | yamahata: spec was never approved | 05:07 |
| natarajk_ | i had few questions on what was discussed last week | 05:07 |
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| yamahata | natarajk_: sure. | 05:07 |
| s3wong | natarajk_: sorry for hijacking the meeting :-) | 05:08 |
| yamahata | Before that I'd like to announce I'll be absent next week sep 9. | 05:08 |
| natarajk_ | there was some mention on integrating route vm with l3 agent | 05:08 |
| natarajk_ | can you clarify | 05:08 |
| yamahata | If someone is willing to chair this meeting, please go ahead. otherwise it will be cancelled on sep 9. | 05:08 |
| yamahata | #topic integrating routervm with l3 agent | 05:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "integrating routervm with l3 agent (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:09 | |
| yamahata | What I have in mind is to integrate config agent with l3 agent. | 05:09 |
| yamahata | vyatta routervm case, it doesn't use any agent. | 05:10 |
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| natarajk_ | config agent model followed by cisco's team ? | 05:10 |
| yamahata | I suppose, for fwaas, agent will be used. correct? | 05:11 |
| yamahata | natarajk_: Yes. | 05:11 |
| natarajk_ | for fwaas, firewall agent is coupled with l3 agent | 05:11 |
| natarajk_ | so we use the firewall agent | 05:11 |
| yamahata | At this point, I'm not sure it will make sense to consolidate l3 agent with config agent. | 05:11 |
| yamahata | I'm playing with the code. I haven't concluded it personally. Off course discussion is welcome. I'm open. | 05:12 |
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| yamahata | The current model of l3 agent is tied to network node. | 05:13 |
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| natarajk_ | can you explain who creates the linux routers when we have config agent | 05:13 |
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| yamahata | natarajk_: do you mean reference l3 (legacy, non-DVR) agent case? | 05:14 |
| natarajk_ | yes | 05:14 |
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| yamahata | In that case, neturon router is on network node. | 05:15 |
| yamahata | When neutron router is created, l3 agent is chosen = network node is chosen. | 05:15 |
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| natarajk_ | i understand that, but with config agent integration will anything change there ? | 05:15 |
| yamahata | Then RPC is sent to the l3 agent which creates router on that networn node. | 05:15 |
| natarajk_ | So, config agent integration is only for router vm cases ? | 05:15 |
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| yamahata | The difference is that cfg agent isn't tied to network node. | 05:16 |
| natarajk_ | ok | 05:16 |
| yamahata | natarajk_: Yes. or Xaas VM case. | 05:16 |
| yamahata | like FWaaS | 05:16 |
| yamahata | At this point, Bob has only routervm case, but I guess they will propose fwaas one for Kilo cycle. | 05:17 |
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| yamahata | In order to generalize, driver architecture will be introduced to allow any service | 05:17 |
| natarajk_ | ok | 05:18 |
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| yamahata | If you want your own agent, it's not prophibited. | 05:19 |
| yamahata | natarajk_: If it's allowed, I'd like to see your fwaas agent implementation | 05:20 |
| yamahata | anyway you don't have to use config agent. you can use your own agent. | 05:20 |
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| natarajk | having some IRC connectivity issues | 05:22 |
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| natarajk | i'll look into config agent code in cisco's plugin | 05:22 |
| natarajk | to get more details | 05:22 |
| yamahata | great | 05:22 |
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| yamahata | It just offload api call for vm from neutron server to agent. | 05:23 |
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| natarajk | ok | 05:23 |
| yamahata | any other topic? | 05:23 |
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| yamahata | #topic Open Discussion | 05:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: servicevm-device-manager)" | 05:24 | |
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| yamahata | #action yamahata announce cancellation of Sep 9 meeting | 05:24 |
| natarajk | i had question on jenkins errors | 05:25 |
| natarajk | for the transient issues, do we just run "recheck no bug" | 05:25 |
| natarajk | it triggers all the CIs | 05:26 |
| natarajk | is there a way to just recheck jenkins ? | 05:26 |
| yamahata | natarajk: Unfortunately I don't know. | 05:26 |
| natarajk | ok | 05:26 |
| yamahata | basically each thirdparty CI provides their own way to recheck, like recheck-vmware | 05:27 |
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| natarajk | yes, but recheck no bug triggers everything | 05:27 |
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| yamahata | any other topic? | 05:28 |
| yamahata | okay, thank you everyone. and sorry for my absence next week. see you two weeks later. | 05:29 |
| s3wong | see you | 05:29 |
| yamahata | #endmeeting | 05:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 05:30 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 05:30:05 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 05:30 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-09-02-05.00.html | 05:30 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-09-02-05.00.txt | 05:30 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/servicevm_device_manager/2014/servicevm_device_manager.2014-09-02-05.00.log.html | 05:30 |
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| sc68cal_ | hello all | 13:54 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, hello | 13:56 |
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| sc68cal | #startmeeting neutron_ipv6 | 13:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 13:59:31 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is sc68cal. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: neutron_ipv6)" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'neutron_ipv6' | 13:59 |
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| sc68cal | The only thing I have for discussion today is the progress on the Horizon patch, so if anyone else has things they'd like to discuss please do! | 14:01 |
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| xuhanp | sc68cal, do we need to change our meeting time since the WL meeting will start next week? | 14:03 |
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| sc68cal | xuhanp: are they starting next week? I was under the impression is was going to be after the summit? | 14:03 |
| xuhanp | I think I saw one email today saying so but not 100% sure | 14:04 |
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| sc68cal | yep, you are right. Just looked at the ML | 14:04 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, what is the WL meeting? | 14:05 |
| xuhanp | sorry, typo. | 14:05 |
| xuhanp | the weekly neutron meeting | 14:05 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, I see. thanks. | 14:07 |
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| xuhanp | so I guess we will need to change time if we still want IPv6 meeting to be hold? | 14:07 |
| sc68cal | I was going to wait to the summit, but lately I wonder if the subteam and meeting needs to continue - we've got a lot of things done this dev cycle, and we had a lot of consensus to build. Perhaps with the work we've gotten in, it may not need to be a weekly meeting in the future? | 14:08 |
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| BrianB__ | I think a weekly meeting is still good | 14:09 |
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| xuhanp | I think it will be great if we have a meeting to discuss what's the next steps | 14:10 |
| HenryG | How about moving it one hour earlier? | 14:10 |
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| baoli | it will be conflicting with sr-iov meeting which I need to attend | 14:11 |
| BrianB__ | HenryG:that conflicts with sr-iov | 14:11 |
| sc68cal | I'm glad people want it to continue - I'll keep running it as long as people attend :) | 14:11 |
| xuhanp | how about one hour later? | 14:12 |
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| xuhanp | it's good to keep meetings at one day | 14:12 |
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| sc68cal | I'm ok with an hour later... although that's pretty brutal for you xuhanp? | 14:12 |
| xuhanp | that's fine for me too :-) | 14:12 |
| baoli | that sounds good to me | 14:13 |
| sc68cal | yeah the upside is it gives the US west coast people a break ;) | 14:13 |
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| sc68cal | Let me just see if we conflict with anything at 1500 UTC | 14:14 |
| xuhanp | if there is no room for this time in openstack-meeting or openstack-meeting-alt, there is openstack-meeting-3 | 14:14 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: cool, thanks for checking. | 14:15 |
| sc68cal | hmm | 14:15 |
| sc68cal | oops, no that's thursday | 14:16 |
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| sc68cal | ok, so openstack-meeting-3 on tuesdays at 1500UTC? | 14:16 |
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| sc68cal | I'll put something on the ML to let everyone check and make sure that works | 14:17 |
| aveiga | sounds good | 14:17 |
| xuhanp | sounds great | 14:17 |
| sc68cal | xuhanp: I saw you still had some q's from the HA thread on the ML? | 14:18 |
| xuhanp | yep. | 14:18 |
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| baoli | actually, it seems that tuesdays utc1500 is open on openstack-meeting-alt | 14:18 |
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| xuhanp | but I just left a new thought today. so I guess I will leave some time for everyone to check it out. | 14:19 |
| baoli | xuhanp, right now, the garp is sent to router ports, gateway port, etc. | 14:19 |
| sc68cal | Hmmm - I think I found a bug in the mailing list software | 14:19 |
| sc68cal | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/044340.html | 14:19 |
| baoli | xuhanp, for vrrp to work, would it make sense for it to send the garp to the ports that are configured for vrrp? | 14:20 |
| sc68cal | That e-mail is from xuhanp but it has aveiga as the from in the archive. | 14:20 |
| aveiga | sc68cal: nice catch, as I didn't send that | 14:20 |
| xuhanp | sc68cal, you should search for Sep 1 | 14:20 |
| xuhanp | I sent it today. | 14:21 |
| sc68cal | ah ok, | 14:21 |
| sc68cal | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-September/044602.html | 14:21 |
| xuhanp | that one should came from aveiga, only he is replying inline so mixed with mine | 14:21 |
| aveiga | I think the issue at hand should really be which method(s) do we want to support for HA | 14:21 |
| aveiga | do we want VRRP? Do we just want standby RAs? | 14:21 |
| aveiga | do we want options? | 14:21 |
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| sc68cal | I know there is some work for vrrp in Neutron - I'd have to do research | 14:22 |
| xuhanp | in the latest code of L3 HA, when HA is enable, keepalived is used to send out GARP. When is not, GARP is sending out by neutron code. | 14:22 |
| xuhanp | just checked today. | 14:22 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: is that using VRRP for IPv4? | 14:23 |
| aveiga | and is that the only mode supported? | 14:23 |
| xuhanp | I think so since there is no special treat for IPv6. | 14:23 |
| xuhanp | although keepalived supports IPv6 VRRP | 14:23 |
| baoli | xuhanp, I think that we need to separate the discussion between garp on router ports, and garp on gateway port | 14:23 |
| aveiga | ok, so the question is do we want to do just VRRP for IPv6? | 14:24 |
| xuhanp | baoli, right. | 14:24 |
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| xuhanp | aveiga, I think we need to support HA like IPv4, but it's debatable if VRRP is used. | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | I just use that as an example of not using two LLA for subnet | 14:25 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: I don't question the need for HA, just asking about the methods | 14:25 |
| aveiga | and yes, that makes it easier | 14:25 |
| aveiga | having only one LLA | 14:25 |
| xuhanp | since keepalived with VRRP is used for IPv4, I think it's convenient to use for IPv6 | 14:26 |
| aveiga | I agree | 14:26 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, the point I want to make is that garp for router port should be controlled by the higher prototol. | 14:26 |
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| xuhanp | baoli, so do you understand why currently GARP is used for IPv4 routers? | 14:27 |
| xuhanp | I am confused by that part from the beginning | 14:27 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, garp for the gateway port is for NAT, I believe, but garp for the router ports, I'm 100% sure. | 14:27 |
| baoli | sorry, not 100% sure | 14:28 |
| xuhanp | I thought it's for bridge learning | 14:28 |
| xuhanp | since the router node changed | 14:28 |
| xuhanp | we need to update the learning table cache | 14:28 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, yes, that's possible for quick convergence. But the VM sends ARP anyway | 14:29 |
| xuhanp | VM don't need to update ARP if the router IP is not changed, right? | 14:30 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: has the MAC changed? | 14:30 |
| xuhanp | in VRRP, no. The virtual MAC is used. | 14:30 |
| xuhanp | but in other case, maybe | 14:30 |
| baoli | xuhanp, so router ports' ip address changed but mac remains unchanged, it maybe a good thing to send garp, I guess. | 14:31 |
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| baoli | right now, it seems to be sending it regardless. | 14:31 |
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| aveiga | baoli: is it harming anything to send it? | 14:31 |
| aveiga | at the worst, you get a packet that confirms what you already know | 14:32 |
| aveiga | at best, it reconverges on the proper gateway | 14:32 |
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| baoli | aveiga, I don't think it hurts anything | 14:33 |
| xuhanp | maybe we should talk to the HA code owner to understand more. | 14:33 |
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| xuhanp | I see the code change around GARP in the HA code. | 14:33 |
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| xuhanp | If there is a gap to support IPv6 HA, we can fix that. | 14:34 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, maybe it's worthwhile to see the packets while RA is enabled on a router port. We can better understand if garp is needed for router port for ipv6 | 14:36 |
| xuhanp | baoli, if we go that way, then there will be two LLA when router failover. | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | VM need to switch to the backup's LLA as route | 14:37 |
| xuhanp | In VRRP, the previous LLA is used. | 14:37 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, I'm still thinking about normal case. For HA, I'm thinking that keepalived will do the right thing. | 14:38 |
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| xuhanp | baoli, OK | 14:38 |
| aveiga | baoli: yeah, VRRP is fine and normal case will judst need a new RA | 14:38 |
| aveiga | need to keep valid lifetimes low though | 14:39 |
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| baoli | aveiga, good point. | 14:39 |
| xuhanp | aveiga, I think too low increases the overhead? | 14:40 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: it does, but too high means outages during failover | 14:41 |
| xuhanp | exactly | 14:41 |
| aveiga | it's a tradeoff | 14:41 |
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| aveiga | but RAs aren't that expensive | 14:41 |
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| xuhanp | aveiga, so you are saying since failover causes the new router to send out RA anyway, we don't need additional steps here? | 14:42 |
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| aveiga | xuhanp: if you're triggering the standby to become active | 14:42 |
| aveiga | it will have to send RAs anyway to be a router | 14:42 |
| aveiga | so yeah | 14:42 |
| aveiga | we should spin up radvd on it and fire away | 14:43 |
| xuhanp | so we need the VM to wait for the last RA to expire and receive the new one? | 14:43 |
| xuhanp | and change it's route to the new LLA? | 14:43 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: that depends on the guest, sadly | 14:43 |
| aveiga | some of them will take the new RA immediately | 14:44 |
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| aveiga | some might need to wait for the timeout | 14:44 |
| baoli | it's also possible to deprecate the old RA by sending its lifetime to be 0 | 14:44 |
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| aveiga | baoli: spoof send it? | 14:44 |
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| aveiga | we'd haveto have the failover router send it from the old router's LLA | 14:45 |
| xuhanp | the old route is already dead, so how to do it. | 14:45 |
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| xuhanp | then it falls into the VRRP way. | 14:45 |
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| xuhanp | in VRRP the new router just send out the old LLA in RA | 14:46 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: we're talking about a non-VRRP mode | 14:46 |
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| xuhanp | yes. but we are making the process more and more like VRRP process | 14:46 |
| xuhanp | since it's invented to solve the same problems here | 14:47 |
| aveiga | xuhanp: this would potentially let you go to DVR on the fly though :-P | 14:47 |
| xuhanp | :-) | 14:47 |
| aveiga | just spin up all the local gateways and take over the RA :) | 14:47 |
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| aveiga | so this is a good conversation and all, but is any of this work tied to a specific blueprint with a timeline? | 14:49 |
| xuhanp | no. it's triggered by a bug | 14:49 |
| xuhanp | since ARP doesn't work for IPv6. | 14:49 |
| aveiga | ah, ok | 14:49 |
| baoli | xuhanp, so are we saying that garp on router port will be taken care of by the higher level protocol? In other words, l3 agent doesn't need to send garp blindly. | 14:50 |
| baoli | for ipv6 | 14:50 |
| xuhanp | for IPv4 I think that's useful | 14:50 |
| aveiga | well, there's no garp for v6 | 14:50 |
| xuhanp | but for IPv6, seems not | 14:50 |
| aveiga | so it's either a new RA or unsolicited NA | 14:50 |
| xuhanp | yep | 14:51 |
| baoli | aveiga, that's what I mean. | 14:51 |
| aveiga | if it's an RA< then radvd does it normally | 14:51 |
| aveiga | if it's NA, then we have to manually craft the packet | 14:51 |
| xuhanp | unsolicited NA is useful if the LLA is not changed. | 14:51 |
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| xuhanp | it will have the same benefit as GARP. | 14:51 |
| aveiga | if the LLA is not changed, then why do we need anything? | 14:51 |
| aveiga | the MAC and the LLA aren't changing, so the route should still work | 14:52 |
| aveiga | the DAD packet will update the switches | 14:52 |
| xuhanp | the port could changed, so we need that for switch learning? | 14:52 |
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| xuhanp | that's my thoughts not 100% sure | 14:52 |
| aveiga | unless we aren't waiting to instantiate the listener on the failover router | 14:53 |
| aveiga | in which case, yes an NA is needed | 14:53 |
| xuhanp | aveiga, yes. | 14:53 |
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| xuhanp | if LLA is changed, the unsolicited NA is useless after all, right? | 14:54 |
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| aveiga | if LLA is changed, then a new RA is required | 14:55 |
| xuhanp | yep | 14:55 |
| aveiga | which will cover for the NA as well | 14:55 |
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| xuhanp | I can leave these comments in code review and see other's opinions | 14:56 |
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| aveiga | +1 | 14:56 |
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| baoli | xuhanp, there is ra dump facility you can use to see what would happen with the scenairos you mentioned, also tshark can help find out the packets sent to the network | 14:56 |
| xuhanp | baoli, good to know. I will try that. | 14:57 |
| baoli | xuhanp, that will help figured out if NA is needed | 14:57 |
| xuhanp | baoli, ok | 14:58 |
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| sc68cal | Cool stuff everyone | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | thanks for coming! | 15:00 |
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| sc68cal | until next week! | 15:00 |
| sc68cal | #endmeeting | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 15:00:36 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-09-02-13.59.html | 15:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-09-02-13.59.txt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/neutron_ipv6/2014/neutron_ipv6.2014-09-02-13.59.log.html | 15:00 |
| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 15:01:02 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:01 |
| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler? | 15:01 |
| bauzas_ | \o | 15:01 |
| mspreitz | yes | 15:01 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, you're supposed to catching up on sleep since you don't get any for about the next 6 months :-) | 15:02 |
| bauzas | n0ano: eh | 15:02 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: last night was pretty good for me, not for my wife ;) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | in my family bad night for one pretty much meant a bod night for the other | 15:03 |
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| bauzas | but just coming back from 3 days PTO :) | 15:03 |
| bauzas | n0ano: :) | 15:03 |
| n0ano | anyway, let's get started... | 15:03 |
| bauzas | jaypipes seems to be not around | 15:04 |
| n0ano | occurs to me I put the items in the wrong order so let's start with | 15:04 |
| n0ano | #topic next steps | 15:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "next steps (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:04 | |
| bauzas | eh eh | 15:04 |
| n0ano | as everyone should be aware the isolate scheduler DB bp was rejected for Juno... | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | I've started a thread to address what I think are problems with the current approval process... | 15:04 |
| bauzas | n0ano: yeah, thanks for raising up the discussion in the list | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | ignoring that, what do we do to keep momentum for gantt going... | 15:05 |
| bauzas | n0ano: as I'm the proposer, I was expecting to not reply on that specific problem | 15:05 |
| bauzas | n0ano: here, the problem was about the -2 going one week before FPF | 15:06 |
| n0ano | my thought is that this is a bump but not a major blockage, as soon as Kilo opens up we will just re-propose the BP, hopefully get it approved as people have more time to think about it, and we still do the split early in the Kilo cycle | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: so I guess that discussion is related to all the ones about how we can improve design summits, reviewing slots etc. | 15:06 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: well, that's not that easy | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: the concerns were good | 15:06 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I mean, we were having a dependency on ERT | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: and the current interface is not so good | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: so, I'm thinking about proposing a new iteration as we discussed last week | 15:07 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I'm hoping ERT will be resolved this week and then we can fix our BP, with or without ERT as appropriate | 15:07 |
| bauzas | n0ano: oh, you didn't catch them | 15:07 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: ERT revert patch is abandoned, but Scheduler related one has been -2 today | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | I was kind of fixated on the BP review process, what did I miss | 15:08 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: and today is FF, so that means the scheduler side won't be there until Kilo opens | 15:08 |
| bauzas | n0ano: one sec, giving you the reviews | 15:09 |
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| * bauzas is coming back from vacation but still on page, eh ;) | 15:09 | |
| n0ano | bauzas, that's a given so, as I said, we get prepared and re-propose our BP as soon as Kilo opens | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/61773/ ERT scheduler side has been -2 for Junoi | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: that's what I'm saying, I think we need to look at other ways to do the bp | 15:10 |
| n0ano | bauzas, question is, what are the odds that they will re-propose ERT? | 15:10 |
| bauzas | n0ano: for both the reasons that ERT won't be there when Kilo opens, and also because the concerns were good | 15:11 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I guess Paul will ask for a FFE or resubmit it for Kilo | 15:11 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: but I can't speak on behalf of it | 15:11 |
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| n0ano | so the question is should we wait for Paul to resolve ERT or should we just work around it | 15:12 |
| bauzas | s/it/him (Paul is not an object, although he's working on some patches about them...) | 15:12 |
| bauzas | n0ano: as we discussed last week, I will propose another way | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: the idea is to pass Objects from RT to Sched | 15:12 |
| n0ano | personally, I would prefer to not wait, I would prefer to work around it and, if need be, redo things when/if ERT is finalized. | 15:12 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, that works for me | 15:13 |
| bauzas | n0ano: well, the design is really different if we don't go with ERT | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: and IMHO, that's more "resilient" in terms of community approval :) | 15:13 |
| n0ano | yeah but I don't feel we should wait on it, deal with ERT only when it's finalized | 15:13 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: agreed that's top prio, but we need to sort some things previously | 15:14 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: seriously, the current way is pretty crap... | 15:15 |
| n0ano | so, if I understand, you're going to update the current BP and then we can look at implementing based upon that new design - right? | 15:15 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: yeah | 15:16 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: I was just expecting more support from others than just you and me | 15:16 |
| bauzas | :) | 15:16 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ie. I need to discuss with jay first | 15:16 |
| n0ano | #action bauzas to update the isolate scheduler DB BP | 15:16 |
| bauzas | thanks :) | 15:16 |
| bauzas | will mark it as WIP, until Kilo spec template is there | 15:17 |
| bauzas | because there are chances that the template will change | 15:17 |
| n0ano | we're in agreement, getting some sort of concensus from Jay would be good but I'm willing to push through others if that's a problem. | 15:17 |
| bauzas | n0ano: indeed | 15:17 |
| bauzas | n0ano: hence I'm waiting to see what will be the Kilo process for blueprints | 15:17 |
| n0ano | bauzas, I doubt the template will change dramitically, just a tweak or two | 15:18 |
| bauzas | n0ano: because atm that's unclear | 15:18 |
| n0ano | s/dramit/dramat | 15:18 |
| bauzas | n0ano: I'm not really waiting for the template, I'm waiting for big decisions like runways and design summit reboot | 15:18 |
| * n0ano needs to work on spellin skills | 15:18 | |
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| * n0ano and typing skills | 15:18 | |
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| bauzas | n0ano: the design summit format will change for Paris | 15:19 |
| bauzas | n0ano: and the cores's reviewing process will probably change for Kilo | 15:19 |
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| n0ano | the format will change but we will still push for gantt no matter what the procedure we have to follow | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | as I've said in the past, no one has objected to gantt, the only issues have been how & when | 15:20 |
| bauzas | n0ano: of course, but coming from a patch where 54 iterations were necessary for having merged it, I can just say that sometimes, you need to have visibility before doing anything | 15:20 |
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| n0ano | bauzas, completely agree (don't know whether to laugh or cry over that) | 15:21 |
| bauzas | n0ano: the "how" is sometimes requiring more than 3 months for getting it done | 15:21 |
| n0ano | remember, I started the gantt work over a year ago and we're still debating it | 15:21 |
| bauzas | n0ano: the golden rule for Nova is patience | 15:21 |
| bauzas | n0ano: indeed, I was sitting 2 rows behind you in HKG :) | 15:22 |
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| n0ano | HKG, I started this before Portland :-) | 15:22 |
| bauzas | then that's not 1 year... :) | 15:22 |
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| bauzas | anyway, reviewing the NUMA patches was pretty worth it | 15:23 |
| bauzas | I now totally understand ndipanov's concerns | 15:23 |
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| n0ano | Oh, you're right, I can't count, it was after Grizzly I started (I think, too long ago) | 15:24 |
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| mspreitz_ | bauzas: can you explain briefly? I have not been following the NUMA stuff | 15:24 |
| bauzas | atm, RT is pretty good for consuming CPUs and memory, but very bad at counting more complex objects | 15:24 |
| n0ano | anyway, bottom line is you get to redo the BP and I get to needle the powers that be over review process | 15:24 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz_: well, the problem is really about details | 15:24 |
| bauzas | mspreitz_: like what you get is not typed | 15:24 |
| bauzas | mspreitz_: so you have to doublecheck what you get | 15:25 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz_: you also have to do some extra calls for getting some info | 15:25 |
| mspreitz_ | bauzas: are you explaining the NUMA concerns? | 15:25 |
| bauzas | mspreitz_: yeah, all the fixme stuff these folks were doing | 15:25 |
| mspreitz_ | OK, thanks. | 15:26 |
| bauzas | mspreitz_: I can just summarize that the problem is that you're providing non-typed and non-validated dictionaries | 15:26 |
| bauzas | mspreitz_: and based on where you look at these bits, they are either serialized or not | 15:26 |
| mspreitz_ | I have to admit I have not been following the details, since it became clear a while ago that it would take a long time to get progress here | 15:26 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz_: seriously, I understand | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz_: here the problem with isolate-sched-db is that we're not counting cpus or ram, but apples and bananas | 15:27 |
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| bauzas | mspreitz_: I mean, real complex objects | 15:27 |
| bauzas | so we kinda need some formalization | 15:28 |
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| bauzas | and as I said last week, we *already* have the toolbox for it, that's called.... objects | 15:28 |
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| mspreitz_ | thanks | 15:29 |
| bauzas | anyway, I'll have to leave earlier today, we can maybe move on ? | 15:29 |
| mspreitz_ | yes | 15:29 |
| n0ano | bauzas, fer sur | 15:29 |
| n0ano | #topic opens | 15:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "opens (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:30 | |
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| n0ano | anyone have anything new for today? | 15:30 |
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| bauzas | I'm glad to say scheduler-lib is merged | 15:30 |
| n0ano | +1 | 15:30 |
| * bauzas silently says hurrah | 15:30 | |
| * n0ano vocally says hurrah | 15:30 | |
| bauzas | that will ease the next steps discussed previously | 15:31 |
| n0ano | anything else? | 15:31 |
| bauzas | yup | 15:31 |
| bauzas | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117042/ that's something prerequisite for the work | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | the idea discussed previously is to provide ComputeNode objects to Scheduler | 15:32 |
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| bauzas | but unfortunately, ComputeNode is having a FK on Services for the bad or the good | 15:32 |
| bauzas | so we need to do some prework about that, and this patch is doing that | 15:33 |
| bauzas | because that makes no sense to give to Scheduler something having a dependency on anything else | 15:33 |
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| n0ano | how does this relate to the change to not send those updates unless something changes, there's no longer an update every 60 secons | 15:33 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: this is not related, here is the patch is about creating the DB entry at startup | 15:34 |
| bauzas | but the updates are still done the same way, ie. checking if updated or not | 15:34 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: the problem was that we were looking the existence of an object every 60 secs | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: your check is not before that, but after IIRC | 15:35 |
| bauzas | n0ano: ie. before updating the DB | 15:36 |
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| n0ano | I though the DB entry was already created at startup | 15:36 |
| bauzas | n0ano: nope | 15:36 |
| bauzas | n0ano: not exactly | 15:36 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: the update_avail_resource method was called when nova-compute was booting | 15:37 |
| bauzas | n0ano: because of a post-hook mechanism | 15:37 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: but the check was still done every 60 secs | 15:37 |
| bauzas | n0ano: here we refactor where we look at services table, that's really helpful | 15:38 |
| n0ano | I have to study the code, I don't understand, let me try and understand this first | 15:38 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: sure | 15:39 |
| bauzas | that's it for me | 15:39 |
| n0ano | OK, unless there's anything else | 15:39 |
| n0ano | I'll thank everyone and we'll talk next week. | 15:40 |
| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:40 |
| mspreitz | thanks | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 15:40:08 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-09-02-15.01.html | 15:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-09-02-15.01.txt | 15:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2014/gantt.2014-09-02-15.01.log.html | 15:40 |
| bauzas | thanks | 15:40 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 16:02:08 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | hey everyone | 16:02 |
| lazy_prince | hi all.. | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | hi there | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: hey now | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: hi tavi | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: hi luis | 16:03 |
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| alexpilotti | primeministerp: lazy_prince is interested in how to test the Windows disk image builder | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | o nice | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | we can discuss that too | 16:03 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do we want to start there? | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | just started the conversation on #openstack-hyper-v and the timing was perfect for bringing it to the attention at the meeting | 16:04 |
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| lazy_prince | well.. we can discuss that at the end.. after all formal agenda is done.. | 16:04 |
| alexpilotti | I suggest so | 16:04 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: we can start here | 16:04 |
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| primeministerp | #topic windows-disk-image-builder | 16:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "windows-disk-image-builder (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:04 | |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: is the discussion still at "where it should ruN" | 16:05 |
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| lazy_prince | okay.. so right now, openstack is resisting the tool bcoz we dont have testing framework for wordows related stuff there.. | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: understood, it's kinda required | 16:05 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: so you'd like us to pick up those tests in our ci? | 16:06 |
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| lazy_prince | so i checked with google and there were some linux alternatives available for DISM, WIM etc.. but could not find anything for powershell... | 16:06 |
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| primeministerp | meaning if you wanted to run the image creation on linux only | 16:06 |
| alexpilotti | lazy_prince: there are a bunch of alternatives, but those won’t have MSFT support, which might be a concern | 16:07 |
| lazy_prince | yes. i guess, then only openstack will agree for its adoption.. | 16:07 |
| lazy_prince | ale: yup. i agree | 16:07 |
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| lazy_prince | but i wanted to have minimal tests in openstack CI using linux tools and a full fleged tests using HyperV ci.. | 16:08 |
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| lazy_prince | so that it gets adopted as well as tested too.. | 16:09 |
| lazy_prince | does it makes sense..? | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | yeah thinking | 16:09 |
| primeministerp | so do you know what will be needed to adquately test it? | 16:10 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: ^ | 16:11 |
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| lazy_prince | yup.. we currently plan to put the code on stackforge. I hope that should not be an issue for integrating with HyperV CI.. | 16:11 |
| lazy_prince | and so we just need the tool to create a basic image for now and then test it on a VM.. | 16:11 |
| lazy_prince | later on, we can extend the tests as and when we extend the tool.. | 16:12 |
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| lazy_prince | now the question is where do i start.. | 16:13 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: so my only issue here | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | is that we currently already have a set of tools which create windows images | 16:14 |
| primeministerp | for anything | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | which we currently consume | 16:15 |
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| primeministerp | and would ideally need to test w/in our ci first | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: would it make sense to discuss combining our efforts there? | 16:15 |
| lazy_prince | aha.. thats okay.. i am not asking to update your tests.. | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: it's not a matter of updating our tests | 16:16 |
| lazy_prince | but all i am asking it to test it.. | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | we already have stuff for creating windows images | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | i.e. a windows-image-builder | 16:16 |
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| primeministerp | now we create images as virtual | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | but they can be preped for physical w/ the exact same code we already ahve | 16:17 |
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| lazy_prince | ok i get it.. | 16:17 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: I'm looking at it from the perspective it makes sense to collaborate around the one tool which we already use in our ci | 16:18 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: and not duplicate efforts | 16:18 |
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| lazy_prince | I can take a look at it if there is a public repo available.. | 16:18 |
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| primeministerp | yes there is | 16:18 |
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| lazy_prince | however, my goal was to create a tool to generate Image without standing up a VM.. | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | lazy_prince: https://github.com/cloudbase/windows-openstack-imaging-tools | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: do you mind sending it to them | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: how? | 16:19 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: ^ | 16:19 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: that's practically impossible | 16:19 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: you'd have to dd it off the hw | 16:19 |
| lazy_prince | using powershell DISM | 16:19 |
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| lazy_prince | we can create a vhd and then layoff everything on it using DISM.. | 16:20 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: i'm thinking about the process | 16:20 |
| lazy_prince | we have tested it and it is definately possible... | 16:20 |
| alexpilotti | lazy_prince: would you mind pasting the link to the repo w your tool? | 16:20 |
| lazy_prince | sure.. give me a sec.. | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: i'm trying to understand where in the process you are creating an image | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | lazy_prince: it is possible, it’s using standard DISM tools, so it’s all ok | 16:21 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: on the backside of an unattended install | 16:21 |
| alexpilotti | lazy_prince primeministerp we tested it as well | 16:21 |
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| primeministerp | ^? | 16:21 |
| lazy_prince | https://github.com/slokesh184/windows-diskimage-builder.git | 16:22 |
| lazy_prince | thats great... | 16:22 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: reading now | 16:23 |
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| lazy_prince | from testing perspective, it should be fairly simple.. I think, everyone may need time to go through the tool, experiment with it.. | 16:23 |
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| lazy_prince | and then probably, we can discuss about it in the next meeting. | 16:24 |
| lazy_prince | is that okay..? | 16:24 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: that's fine too | 16:25 |
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| lazy_prince | the future goal is to bring the tool on par with linux diskimage-builder.. | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: let's setup a call if possible to discuss | 16:25 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: but we'll need to take a look at it first | 16:26 |
| lazy_prince | that should be fine with me.. | 16:26 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: perfect, if you want send some times which work for you at ppouliot@microsoft.com | 16:26 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | let's move on | 16:27 |
| primeministerp | #topic development updates | 16:28 |
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| lazy_prince | sure.. I will check with my team and will send the timings to you.. do you have any prefered time that you want us to consider..? | 16:28 |
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| primeministerp | lazy_prince: EST is best for me | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | I'm on the east coast | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: updates? | 16:28 |
| lazy_prince | okay.. well I am on IST.. | 16:28 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: hmm | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: we'll figure something out | 16:29 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: send some options | 16:29 |
| alexpilotti | lazy_prince: are you coming to Paris by any chance? | 16:29 |
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| lazy_prince | yup.. will do do.. I cant say now, if I will be coming to paris.. but if I or anyone from my team travels, i will ask them to talk to you | 16:31 |
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| alexpilotti | ok tx! | 16:32 |
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| alexpilotti | some quick updates, since we started the topic | 16:32 |
| alexpilotti | Nova blueprints are all in | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | we have one relatively new one, which is the sofy shutdown | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | *soft shutdown | 16:33 |
| alexpilotti | it merged recently for KVM and we sent the patch for Hyper-V | 16:34 |
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| alexpilotti | should hopefully merge today | 16:34 |
| alexpilotti | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111291/ | 16:35 |
| alexpilotti | waiting for CI votes | 16:35 |
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| alexpilotti | on the CInder side, we were blocked by a refactoring patch which merged last Friday | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | we rebased the patches and today they are under review | 16:36 |
| alexpilotti | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106046/ | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/106057/ | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | (the latter must be rebased on top of the first one) | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | for the rest all teh Tempest and Devstack patches merged | 16:37 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: awesome | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | we have a new one for Tempest (neutron) | 16:37 |
| alexpilotti | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118167/ | 16:38 |
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| alexpilotti | but for Tempest we have no issues with code freeze | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111291/ | 16:38 |
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| alexpilotti | so it’s on a lower priority compared to the remaining BPs | 16:38 |
| primeministerp | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118167/ | 16:38 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ok | 16:39 |
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| alexpilotti | I’ll add a full report on the bug fixes on teh next meeting | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: also I'm hoping we can light up the livemigration tests next week | 16:39 |
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| alexpilotti | yep, all teh Tempest work can be used right away in the CI since it merged | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | ociuhandu: anything to add? | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | luis_fdez: ? | 16:39 |
| primeministerp | if not I think we're good for now | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | lazy_prince: thanks for participating I look for forward to our followon | 16:40 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:40 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 16:40:39 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:40 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-09-02-16.02.html | 16:40 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-09-02-16.02.txt | 16:40 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2014/hyper_v.2014-09-02-16.02.log.html | 16:40 |
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| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 16:59 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 16:59:30 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:59 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:59 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 16:59 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 16:59 |
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| boris-42 | olkonami andreykurilin_ marcoemorais RainbowBastion coolsvap hi guys | 16:59 |
| RainbowBastion | hi there | 17:00 |
| andreykurilin_ | hi! | 17:00 |
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| boris-42 | let's wait a bit for others | 17:01 |
| andreykurilin_ | ok:) | 17:02 |
| msdubov | hi! | 17:02 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov oh hi there | 17:03 |
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| boris-42 | harlowja hi there | 17:04 |
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| harlowja | boris-42 yo yo | 17:04 |
| harlowja | sup dawg | 17:04 |
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| boris-42 | okay i think we can start | 17:05 |
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| olkonami | hi | 17:05 |
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| boris-42 | #topic @Validation refactoring | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "@Validation refactoring (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:06 | |
| boris-42 | Okay yesterday we merged quite big patch | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111989/7 | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | that fixes tons of bugs & improves usability of validation | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | woot | 17:07 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Benchmarking with already existing users | 17:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Benchmarking with already existing users (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:07 | |
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| boris-42 | me and RainbowBastion are working on this topic | 17:07 |
| boris-42 | feature request is https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/doc/feature_request/LDAP_support.rst | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | and there are 2 patches on reviwe | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117302/ | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | this and | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/116766/ | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | it's just first part | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | that will allow to extend deployments (to make them contain as well users) | 17:09 |
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| boris-42 | after that we will need to rework a bit benchmark.engine and probably create (existing_users context) | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | and that's all | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | so we are quite close to this finishing this task | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | any questions? | 17:10 |
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| RainbowBastion | I just need to fix up some the test_engine unit tests in order for it to pass Jenkins and it should be done on my end. | 17:10 |
| msdubov | Shouldn't one of those patches be "needed" by the other? | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov not they are quite independent | 17:11 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 Okay just to make sure | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | RainbowBastion actually you'll need to do a bit more cleanup | 17:12 |
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| RainbowBastion | boris-42 okay, we can discuss that after the meeting | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | RainbowBastion ya I'll left some comments | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | RainbowBastion actually it's very simple (you just don't need to initialize with users scenario runner) | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | RainbowBastion https://github.com/stackforge/rally/blob/master/rally/benchmark/runners/base.py#L157 | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | RainbowBastion you don't need endpoints anybmore | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | okay let's move to next topic | 17:14 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Refactoring ReadTheDocs | 17:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Refactoring ReadTheDocs (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:14 | |
| boris-42 | msdubov could you provide some details why and what we are going to do | 17:14 |
| msdubov | First, we want to make the docs much simpler to get through for newcomers | 17:15 |
| rook | rook here =) | 17:15 |
| msdubov | To achieve that, we've analyzed what different groups of users might wish to see here | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | rook hi there | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | And also boris-42 and me had a discussion on how to organize the contents of these docs | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | msdubov could you share documents? | 17:16 |
| msdubov | The core of these new docs will be a kind of tutorial though rally | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | boris-42 just a moment | 17:16 |
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| msdubov | Here is the description of different user groups and of what they expect to find in our docs https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/18wmAZA5_qC1PuQsHOTDVBnVS9VSi0hAdjIJ9EI5-z58/edit | 17:17 |
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| msdubov | Below, you can find a high-level structure of the docs. | 17:18 |
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| msdubov | So, the "Install & Use" section will guide the user through Rally with a series of lessons on how to use it | 17:18 |
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| msdubov | They will get more complicated as the user reads further | 17:18 |
| msdubov | And also these tutorials hopefully will be the basics for the upcoming videos | 17:19 |
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| msdubov | So I expect to have the first version to share and to discuss till the end of this week | 17:19 |
| msdubov | Another point is that we'll remove all the stuff from our WIki | 17:19 |
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| msdubov | So ReadTheDocs will be the only centralized place to find all relevant infos | 17:20 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov great | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | msdubov thanks for update | 17:22 |
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| boris-42 | Does anybody want to help msdubov to provide better docs? | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | RainbowBastion ?^ | 17:22 |
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| RainbowBastion | boris-42 Yeah, I'll work on it after I finish my prior refactoring | 17:23 |
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| msdubov | RainbowBastion, be sure to contact me at any time | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | msdubov RainbowBastion so actually you can collaborate on that google docs | 17:26 |
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| RainbowBastion | msdubov I'll let you know when I finish up the refactoring. | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | great | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | okay let's move on next topic | 17:26 |
| RainbowBastion | Could I get a link to the Google docs? | 17:26 |
| msdubov | RainbowBastion, https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/18wmAZA5_qC1PuQsHOTDVBnVS9VSi0hAdjIJ9EI5-z58/edit | 17:26 |
| RainbowBastion | msdubov Thanks! | 17:27 |
| boris-42 | okay next topic | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | #topic Week of CLI improvments | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | The idea is that CLI should and can be better much better | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | *) Auto completion | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | *) rally info / rally deployment / rally task / rally validation | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | should show by default Information about this command | 17:29 |
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| boris-42 | *) Any command with wrong or missing arguments should show more user friendly message | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | *) Some unification between commands are required | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | *) Writing missing tests | 17:30 |
| rediskin | boris-42: do you mean cli functional tests? | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | rediskin I was talking about unit tests at that point | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | *) Writing functional tests for CLI | 17:31 |
| boris-42 | so and other stuff | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | RainbowBastion rediskin rook andreykurilin_ ^ | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | olkonami ^ | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | Gamekiller77 ping* | 17:32 |
| * boris-42 Gamekiller77 we are here | 17:32 | |
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| boris-42 | so any thoughts? | 17:33 |
| Gamekiller77 | yes just got back from PTO so doing work stuff | 17:33 |
| rook | while i haven't had many problems with the CLI with Rally - the one thing that bugs me is rally task results vs rally task detailed ... I feel like those are backwards, Results should be the pretty output, where detailed should be the JSON | 17:33 |
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| rook | just a nit pick | 17:33 |
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| boris-42 | rook no any nit pick will be important next week | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | rook so I know Rally CLI is consumable (but It's far from that I can say nice CLI) | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | like "git" has | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | Okay any questions? | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | any thoughts? | 17:37 |
| andreykurilin_ | boris-42, maybe we should create some document in google docs with all nits related to cli? | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin_ going to that | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin_ rook Gamekiller77 https://docs.google.com/a/mirantis.com/document/d/1iZa9V8C3Z09JTC3x2MGpBq-FEszwRmVCYoxCbN1zHgo/edit | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | RainbowBastion rediskin ^ | 17:39 |
| andreykurilin_ | good) | 17:40 |
| rediskin | trello? | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | rediskin what about trello? | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | rediskin we need to make document first | 17:40 |
| rediskin | ok | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | rediskin like brainstorm | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | rediskin probably first day of next week | 17:40 |
| andreykurilin_ | rediskin, it seems to me, we should use documents for discussion and than move tasks to trello | 17:41 |
| rediskin | imo trello+irc much better | 17:41 |
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| rediskin | or whatever+irc | 17:42 |
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| boris-42 | andreykurilin_ +1 | 17:42 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin first document and then trello | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin as a result | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | rediskin of brainstorm | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Generic cleanup | 17:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Generic cleanup (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:44 | |
| boris-42 | rediskin could you share some information about your work? | 17:44 |
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| rediskin | I still waiting on review and finishing tests https://review.openstack.org/#/c/116269/ | 17:45 |
| andreykurilin_ | rediskin boris-42, i will have more free time for review after thursday | 17:46 |
| rediskin | boris-42: ^ | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | rediskin soo | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | rediskin imho you should provide commit message | 17:47 |
| boris-42 | rediskin that describes what you've done | 17:47 |
| rediskin | boris-42: ok | 17:47 |
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| boris-42 | rediskin I'll try to understand your pach=) | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | #topic Plugins | 17:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Plugins (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:48 | |
| boris-42 | olkonami what are you working on? | 17:49 |
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| boris-42 | olkonami around? | 17:51 |
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| olkonami | hi, yes | 17:54 |
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| olkonami | I am fixing last comments now | 17:55 |
| andreykurilin_ | olkonami, link | 17:56 |
| andreykurilin_ | please) | 17:56 |
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| olkonami | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/103145/ | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | olkonami so now plugins are for everything? | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | olkonami not only scenarios ? | 17:56 |
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| olkonami | yes | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | olkonami okay I'll review that patch | 17:57 |
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| boris-42 | okay it's quite close to the end of this meeting | 17:57 |
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| boris-42 | so let's continue in rally chat if somebody has something to ask | 17:58 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 17:58:06 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-09-02-16.59.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-09-02-16.59.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2014/rally.2014-09-02-16.59.log.html | 17:58 |
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| dolphm | ayoung, bknudson, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, fmarco76, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:00 |
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| grantbow | o/ | 18:00 |
| raildo1 | \o | 18:00 |
| morganfainberg | \o\ | 18:00 |
| ayoung | I'm here. | 18:00 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:00 |
| dstanek | o/ | 18:00 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: yay! welcome back | 18:00 |
| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | hi | 18:00 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
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| rharwood | \o | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 18:01:49 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dolphm. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| dolphm | #topic Feature freeze September 4th | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature freeze September 4th (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| morganfainberg | oh we got oslofmt again i think for devstack + apache now. | 18:01 |
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| dolphm | so we're at the final countdown to feature freeze on thursday, and we're facing a 9 hour gate which is rapily growing | 18:02 |
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| dolphm | by my count, we have about 8 patches targeting juno-3 left to land, plus endpoint grouping | 18:03 |
| dolphm | #link https://gist.github.com/dolph/651c6a1748f69637abd0 | 18:03 |
| topol | I assume we only are gonna worry on the hottest potatoes at this point | 18:03 |
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| topol | err worry about | 18:03 |
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| dolphm | on endpoint grouping, we approved the spec, and then it totally slipped off my radar until steve noticed the implementation floating around in gerrit last week | 18:03 |
| dolphm | so, i apologize for that :( | 18:03 |
| dstanek | dolphm: did you star that one? | 18:04 |
| stevemar | dolphm, star it! | 18:04 |
| dolphm | dstanek: i have not | 18:04 |
| dstanek | topol: most of the reviews are really close | 18:04 |
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| stevemar | dolphm, it's been through a lot of reviews | 18:04 |
| topol | dstanek+++ | 18:04 |
| dolphm | bobt: morganfainberg: ^ | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | bobt, take it. | 18:05 |
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| bobt | Hopefully, it's good to go. Needs some further love from core. | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | :) | 18:05 |
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| dolphm | stevemar: how close is it to being +A'd now, by your estimation? | 18:05 |
| gyee | it was loved and unloved, but I think its all love now :) | 18:05 |
| stevemar | dolphm, fairly close, i haven't looked at the last few patch sets | 18:05 |
| stevemar | been busy with other things :) | 18:06 |
| dolphm | stevemar: we all have! | 18:06 |
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| dstanek | bobt: thx for adding the patch to listen to delete notifications | 18:06 |
| stevemar | stress levels are high all around yay | 18:06 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: you just got a pep8 fail on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104066/ | 18:06 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: ugg...sorry. i ran the tests after you pushed, but not pep8 | 18:08 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: respinning | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek: no worries | 18:08 |
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| dolphm | it looks like stevemar, dstanek and gyee have been fairly active on the endpoint grouping impl, so thanks! https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111949/ | 18:09 |
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| gyee | dolphm, keep an eagle eye on it :) | 18:09 |
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| dolphm | if ya'll approve it today, i'll try to make sure it lands for j3 | 18:10 |
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| stevemar | oh, just got an email from henry nash, he's traveling and will miss the meeting | 18:10 |
| dolphm | gate woes and whatnot | 18:10 |
| dolphm | stevemar: ack | 18:10 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: o/ | 18:10 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: good morning! | 18:10 |
| dstanek | dolphm: i think that one looks good - just have to +2 it | 18:10 |
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| * jamielennox_ yawns | 18:11 | |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: we need your follow up on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/113998/ which is sort of blocking the implementation i just approved on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/114138/ | 18:11 |
| dstanek | dolphm: there is also a follow up patch to it for adding delete notifications | 18:11 |
| dolphm | dstanek: good to hear! | 18:11 |
| dolphm | dstanek: part of the bp? | 18:12 |
| dstanek | dolphm: it's not in the commit message, but it should be https://review.openstack.org/#/c/117723/ | 18:12 |
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| raildo1 | about hierarchical multitenancy , we are keeping our patches on this branch | 18:13 |
| raildo1 | #https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:feature/hierarchical-multitenancy+topic:bp/hierarchical-multitenancy,n,z | 18:13 |
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| raildo1 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:feature/hierarchical-multitenancy+topic:bp/hierarchical-multitenancy,n,z | 18:13 |
| dolphm | raildo1: perfect, thank you! | 18:13 |
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| stevemar | bknudson, i have a new patch for marek's stuff coming up, mind taking a look? | 18:14 |
| raildo1 | dolphm: but we have a question,what is the better way to keep it updated with the master? | 18:14 |
| bknudson | stevemar: just send a link | 18:14 |
| raildo1 | dolphm: We want to commit our code, but it shows that will commit all the other changes together. (as you can see here: http://paste.openstack.org/show/104791/) | 18:15 |
| dstanek | raildo1: are you checking out your branch and committing to that? | 18:15 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: removed -1 | 18:16 |
| dolphm | raildo1: there's a wiki page that carefully documents the process to keep feature branches up to date | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | raildo1: doing it wrong causes infra terrible pain, so let's walk through that after the meeting | 18:16 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: i disagree but a day before feature freeze is not the time for me to suddenly notice something like this and hold things up | 18:16 |
| raildo1 | dolphm: ok | 18:16 |
| raildo1 | dstanek: yes | 18:17 |
| ayoung | jamielennox_, of course not. That's my job. | 18:17 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: your point is certainly valid :( | 18:17 |
| ayoung | Not really | 18:17 |
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| jamielennox_ | do we expect the bulk of k2k to be ready and released for Juno? | 18:18 |
| jamielennox_ | if it's going to slip it's something i would like to change | 18:18 |
| jamielennox_ | that and the regions are suddenly a scoping concept | 18:19 |
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| bknudson | when I looked at it I wondered about the scope to a region. | 18:20 |
| jamielennox_ | bknudson: so i added this to the meeting agenda as again i only discovered it last night | 18:20 |
| jamielennox_ | adding a URL to a region and expecting that to double as a SP is a bad idea IMO | 18:20 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: the last few changes for k2k are much simpler than the first patch. i think we have a solid chance of seeing them all gating today | 18:20 |
| jamielennox_ | (these are all things that are apparently discussed at the midcycle :( ) | 18:21 |
| dolphm | but: | 18:21 |
| dolphm | #topic Overloading regions with federated auth urls is a bad idea | 18:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Overloading regions with federated auth urls is a bad idea (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:21 | |
| stevemar | jamielennox_, i think you preferred adding os-federation/sp/{sp} rather than overloading regions | 18:21 |
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| jamielennox_ | i'm concerned what having the URL on region and then having it available as a scope in the federated case - what does this imply for the non-federated | 18:21 |
| dolphm | for a touch of background, hierarchical regions were initially proposed by jaypipes to include an auth_url -- essentially the endpoint of a remote keystone for that region | 18:22 |
| jamielennox_ | why should those two things be differnt | 18:22 |
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| dolphm | we dropped the attribute before merging since it was a little ahead of the curve | 18:22 |
| jamielennox_ | is that still the intention? | 18:22 |
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| jamielennox_ | because that is a fairly major change to what we consider a region to be today | 18:23 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: well, the problem with regions has always been that everyone has a slightly different interpretation of the concept :-/ | 18:23 |
| ayoung | are regions fundamental here, or are they a "we can do that too" concept? | 18:24 |
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| * ayoung hasn't refreshed on the patch yet | 18:24 | |
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| jamielennox_ | dolphm: i don't disagree, i've always considered that a failing of ours - but do you think that us suddenly trying to define them like this will improve that situation? | 18:24 |
| dolphm | stevemar: the patch already merged to both the API and for the implementation for region URLs, right? | 18:25 |
| jamielennox_ | as i see it now a region is just a filter, you get a service catalog and you pick one of many | 18:25 |
| stevemar | dolphm, yes | 18:25 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: i'm going to turn the question around, and ask how it's might make it worse? | 18:25 |
| dolphm | s/it's/it/ | 18:25 |
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| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:merged+project:openstack/keystone,n,z | 18:25 |
| dolphm | so, regions now have an optional "url" attribute in core identity api https://github.com/openstack/identity-api/blob/master/v3/src/markdown/identity-api-v3.md#regions-v3regions | 18:26 |
| dolphm | as part of v3.3 | 18:26 |
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| jamielennox_ | if i have arbitrary labels on my existing endpoints, i get a k2k token - why should i suddenly have my endpoints restrictd | 18:26 |
| jamielennox_ | s/labels/regions - but they are the same thing | 18:26 |
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| jamielennox_ | in this case why should me having a federated token change the experience to me having a regular token | 18:27 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox_, yeah...SAML should only be considered a marshalling format | 18:27 |
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| jamielennox_ | and even with hierarchical i'm not really sure what having the auth_url on a region would be used for | 18:28 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: regions are really just an organizational tool to facilitate discovery in a complex environment, right? | 18:28 |
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| topol | dolphm +++ | 18:29 |
| jamielennox_ | i'm concerned that we bled extension concepts over into the core API because we didn't want to add a couple of hundred lines of controllers for a new resource type | 18:29 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: sure | 18:29 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox_: if it was region["OS-FEDERATION:url"], would that be more sane in your eyes? | 18:30 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: it would at least remove it from the regular pool - i'm just not sure why it's not it's own resource | 18:31 |
| ayoung | leaving SAML out of it for a moment, though, does having distinct Auth URLS in the same service catalog make any sense? I always thought "domain" would be the reasonable fissure, not reagion, for the span of control of a KEystone server | 18:31 |
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| ayoung | or, really, whatever we call the "assignment domain" | 18:31 |
| ayoung | Region is not that | 18:31 |
| jamielennox_ | ayoung: i don't think so | 18:32 |
| ayoung | all this Auth Url would be is "here is a closer keystone server" | 18:32 |
| dolphm | ayoung: region URLs don't appear in the service catalog | 18:32 |
| dolphm | it's sort of a meta-catalog | 18:32 |
| dolphm | and potentially cross-cloud | 18:32 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: so another question - how do i list all the auth_urls that i can get to with this token? | 18:32 |
| jamielennox_ | is that some sort of filter on a region list operation? | 18:32 |
| ayoung | dolphm, region is the wrong abstraction | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | region is not a security namespace. Domain is a secuiryt namespace. | 18:33 |
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| jamielennox_ | yea, but domain doesnt fit here | 18:33 |
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| dstanek | the reason i thought regions needed to grow the auth_url was that the EAST region may be from cloud provider 1 an the WEST region from cloud provider 2 | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: ++ that's the use case we discussed. it's also obviously one of federation in that example, so i'm inclined to buy the argument that it should have been an OS-FEDERATION extension attribute. | 18:35 |
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| jamielennox_ | dstanek: wouldn't access to them be controlled by seperate service catalogs/tokens? | 18:35 |
| dolphm | does the core API have a use case for region URL's without consideration for OS-FEDERATION? | 18:35 |
| dstanek | jamielennox_: my understanding is separate token, but same catalog | 18:36 |
| ayoung | wow....Um, that is really diffferent from how I understood regions | 18:36 |
| stevemar | dolphm, doubtful | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | dstanek: that point has proponents on both sides | 18:36 |
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| jamielennox_ | dstanek: why would be share a catalog between different tokens? | 18:36 |
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| jamielennox_ | if you can't access the resource with the current token it should not be in the service catalog | 18:36 |
| dolphm | stevemar: what's the cost to hackishly move region.url to be an OS-FEDERATION attribute in the implementation? | 18:37 |
| ayoung | jamielennox_, ++ | 18:37 |
| jamielennox_ | also unless we start listing the auth_url for that region in the service catalog there is no way for existing services to know they need a new token before accessing it | 18:37 |
| dstanek | jamielennox_: in some cases the internal cloud may not want the customer to directly care that the region is from a different provider | 18:37 |
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| jamielennox_ | dstanek: but it's not so much the customer - if we need a new token how do the developers know they need to do that? | 18:38 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: i'd assume (perhaps wrongly, and i know others disagree) that if a region appears with a URL, then i'm not going to have it's endpoints in my service catalog. i'd have to go auth (somehow) with that endpoint to get a new catalog | 18:38 |
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| dolphm | people fuss too much over obscuring endpoints from their own users, that i can't see any deployments willing to expose & maintain a complete catalog of their own services in multiple clouds | 18:39 |
| dstanek | jamielennox_: someone mentioned (maybe at the hackathon) that the client could take care of negotiating for new token to be used in the other could - transparently to the user | 18:39 |
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| jamielennox_ | so i think this was discussed in the talk at atlanta and it was a question from the audience about getting a catalog full of endpoints for other cloud providers | 18:40 |
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| bknudson | what client? | 18:40 |
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| jamielennox_ | and chadwick stood up (and we all agreed) that no, you would be able to get a listing of other providers and then if you went and got a token from them you could get the endpoints you could access with that token in that new cloud | 18:40 |
| jamielennox_ | that stuffing every possible endpoint into the one token was not the way to do this | 18:41 |
| jamielennox_ | s/one token/one catalog | 18:42 |
| ayoung | jamielennox_, ++ | 18:42 |
| dstanek | jamielennox_: i thought that was one of the reasons to break remove the catalog from the token | 18:42 |
| dstanek | bknudson: the keystone client or any other thridparty clients | 18:42 |
| jamielennox_ | dstanek: on client i don't think that's going to be backwards compatible | 18:43 |
| stevemar | dolphm, removing url from region isn't too bad, just don't know where to add it to | 18:43 |
| dstanek | my understanding may be outdated and stevemar/marek may have new ideas | 18:43 |
| jamielennox_ | dstanek: i think we are a long way from removing the catalog from the token though | 18:43 |
| topol | dstanek +++ I thought it was a reason to break the catalog from the token as well | 18:43 |
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| jamielennox_ | stevemar: i think OS-FEDERATION/sp is as good as any | 18:44 |
| dolphm | stevemar: for juno, i don't want to break a bunch of stuff. if renaming region.url to region.OS-FEDERATION:url is something we need to consider for juno though, i want to take the shortest, least risky path to make that happen | 18:44 |
| dstanek | jamielennox_: why not? get a 403 saying federation is possible and do the magic - old clients don't do the magic and old servers won't say they support the magic | 18:44 |
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| jamielennox_ | i even see it reasonable to list available service providers as a field in the token response so that you don't need to query that as an additional step | 18:44 |
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| ayoung | shall we vote on it? | 18:46 |
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| dolphm | ayoung: we don't have a code review to vote on :) | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | dolphm, is it the right approach? | 18:46 |
| jamielennox_ | dstanek: fair it will just fail, though in reality what will happen is that getting a 401/403 from a response will make the client dump its existing token reauthenticate with keystone (because the only reason it knows to get blocked from an endpoint in it's catalog is that it has been revoked or something else) and try the request again - but it will fail out after that | 18:47 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: ++ | 18:47 |
| jamielennox_ | also i would be interested in what we were thinking about in terms of "breaking out the service catalog" | 18:48 |
| ayoung | I'm most concerned with sticking the Federation Endpoints in the Service catalog. | 18:48 |
| ayoung | that is a commitment we can't break lightly | 18:49 |
| jamielennox_ | it's been a long held theoretical belief - but not one i've seen come even close in practice | 18:49 |
| jamielennox_ | ayoung: ++ | 18:49 |
| dolphm | stevemar: jamielennox_: let's look at the API impact after the meeting, and see if anyone wants to volunteer to write a patch for juno | 18:49 |
| jamielennox_ | ayoung: that's a really bad idea IMO | 18:49 |
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| jamielennox_ | however i'm more concerned that is it the only thing that's going to otherwise prevent us from landing all the k2k work in juno? | 18:50 |
| stevemar | ayoung, it wouldn't be an endpoint, it's just an auth url | 18:50 |
| ayoung | jamielennox_, so we are agreed that K2K Federation should not use the Auth URL for a region. I think Region specifc auth urls are suspect | 18:50 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: that's just something we've put little effort into | 18:50 |
| ayoung | stevemar, doesn't matter what you call it, it matters that it is in the service catalog | 18:50 |
| dolphm | ayoung: we're agreed that it's suspect, i think. that's all | 18:50 |
| stevemar | but it's one url vs many | 18:50 |
| dolphm | bknudson: is your JSON home #topic for juno or kilo? | 18:51 |
| jamielennox_ | stevemar: so the catalog would contain 'auth_url' rather than public/internal/admin? | 18:51 |
| bknudson | dolphm: well, I was hoping to discuss it for juno, if possible | 18:51 |
| dolphm | bknudson: alright, then let's do it | 18:51 |
| dolphm | #topic JSON Home for /, /v2.0 | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "JSON Home for /, /v2.0 (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:52 | |
| dolphm | bknudson: o/ | 18:52 |
| jamielennox_ | bknudson: sorry, take it away | 18:52 |
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| bknudson | so the discussion is, do we want to be able to have json home for /, too | 18:52 |
| bknudson | I did some experimenting over the weekend and it turned out I could use webob to request the /v3 | 18:52 |
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| bknudson | and then all that needs to happen is change the URLs in the v3 JSON home and now / returns the JSON Home | 18:52 |
| bknudson | this seems useful because then a client can get JSON Home from / or /v3 | 18:53 |
| * ayoung likes that | 18:53 | |
| topol | bknudson, very cool! | 18:53 |
| bknudson | so no need to do version discovery | 18:53 |
| stevemar | bknudson, seems like a no brainer | 18:53 |
| ayoung | I think that is the right approach....so long as /v3 in this case implies "latest" | 18:53 |
| dolphm | i'd really like that! | 18:53 |
| jamielennox_ | bknudson: for existing clients i've always assumed that the response from / and from /vX is the same | 18:53 |
| ayoung | but we are a long way from /v4 | 18:53 |
| bknudson | on top of that, can do /v2.0 and have it also return the /v3 JSON Home | 18:53 |
| topol | bknudson, do you have a review link? | 18:53 |
| jamielennox_ | obviously not the same, but that i don't need to query both | 18:54 |
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| bknudson | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118240/ | 18:54 |
| bknudson | this is a WIP since I didn't do tests | 18:54 |
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| bknudson | and also the wacky Version controllers don't make this easy | 18:54 |
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| topol | bknudson the /v2.0 returns JSON for v2 correct/ | 18:55 |
| dolphm | bknudson: i don't follow the /v2.0 comment | 18:55 |
| bknudson | so I'll work on this and I should be able to get it done in a couple hours. | 18:55 |
| topol | dolphm, me iether | 18:55 |
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| jamielennox_ | bknudson: you would return the v3 urls for Get /v2.0? | 18:55 |
| bknudson | GET /v2.0 w/ Accept: application/json-home will return a JSON Home document that has relationships / links to the v3 resources | 18:55 |
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| bknudson | so if you've got /v2.0 in your catalog, you'd have links to the v3 resources. | 18:56 |
| dolphm | bknudson: that sounds slighly scary, but i know some rest api's basically do that | 18:56 |
| bknudson | I'll split it out | 18:56 |
| jamielennox_ | bknudson: i'm not sure the way i've been thinking about discovery with json home will work with that | 18:56 |
| topol | how does crossing those two ghostbuseter streams not lead to toruble? | 18:56 |
| jamielennox_ | (which is probably a problem with my thinking) | 18:56 |
| dolphm | bknudson: support on / is super nice to have, support on /v2.0 is way down my personal wishlist | 18:56 |
| bknudson | the relationship links are always the same | 18:56 |
| bknudson | so you've got a relationship that says http://identity/v3/auth_tokens | 18:57 |
| ayoung | 3 minutes left | 18:57 |
| dolphm | ayoung: thanks | 18:57 |
| dolphm | and yikes | 18:57 |
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| bknudson | when the client needs to get the URL to v3 auth tokens it looks for that relationship | 18:57 |
| bknudson | and then follows the link for that relationship | 18:57 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: in reality, are we going to have any JSON-Home aware clients interacting with v2? | 18:58 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: yes | 18:58 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: keystoneclient | 18:58 |
| bknudson | as long as people have /v2.0 in their catalog | 18:58 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: i mean, with *only* v2 | 18:58 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: not particularly because i want it for v2 but i want the flow to be the same for v2 and v3 | 18:58 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: but this flow won't work on, say, icehouse, so you'll never have the same flow all the time anyway | 18:59 |
| dolphm | jamielennox_: have to account for it not existing | 18:59 |
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| dolphm | (1 min) | 18:59 |
| jamielennox_ | dolphm: but it's how you stack your accept headers, we will always need to fall back to current discovery | 18:59 |
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| dolphm | jamielennox_: you wouldn't rather just always fallback to current discovery for v2, instead of introducing and supporting a new thing? | 19:00 |
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| jamielennox_ | moving to channel | 19:00 |
| lbragstad | time | 19:00 |
| bknudson | thanks | 19:00 |
| dolphm | \o/ | 19:00 |
| dolphm | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 19:00:45 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-09-02-18.01.html | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-09-02-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2014/keystone.2014-09-02-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
| jeblair | howdy infra folks | 19:01 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| grantbow | o/ | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | hey-o | 19:01 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 19:01:44 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link last meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-08-26-19.01.html | 19:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:01 |
| clarkb | o/ | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:02 | |
| jeblair | anteaya invite third-party email addrs from gerrit to announce list | 19:02 |
| anteaya | done | 19:02 |
| jeblair | anteaya: did that happen? | 19:02 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:02 |
| jeblair | neato | 19:02 |
| sweston | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | i should subscribe to those lists now :) | 19:02 |
| anteaya | if you like | 19:02 |
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| anteaya | you are clear to post to announce | 19:02 |
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| fungi | ooh, good idea ;) | 19:02 |
| anteaya | as is clarkb fungi and SergeyLukjanov | 19:02 |
| anteaya | did I miss anyone? | 19:02 |
| anteaya | lyz is already an admin | 19:03 |
| jeblair | anteaya: what's the uptake like on the announce list? | 19:03 |
| anteaya | good | 19:03 |
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| krtaylor | anteaya, do third-party chairs count? | 19:03 |
| anteaya | 59 I think? | 19:03 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: you are already subscribed | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | 65 now | 19:03 |
| krtaylor | I thought you were saying it was post moderated | 19:03 |
| pleia2 | much better than request, which has 18 | 19:04 |
| anteaya | pleia2: yes | 19:04 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: let me check | 19:04 |
| jeblair | krtaylor: oh, yes it is. i expect the use to be for broadcast messages to third-party operators, most of which would be from infra (announcing changes to the system, etc) | 19:04 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 19:04 |
| krotscheck | o/ | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | krtaylor: i think if you have something to announce, we can still use it for that | 19:05 |
| fungi | (meeting minutes?) | 19:05 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: let's get it underway and then look at permissions | 19:05 |
| fungi | (for teh third-party meetings) | 19:05 |
| jeblair | krtaylor: just check with one of the moderators to make sure it's appropriate, and/or go ahead and send the message and they can let it through | 19:05 |
| anteaya | fungi: possibly | 19:05 |
| krtaylor | sounds good | 19:05 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think low-traffic would be good | 19:06 |
| krtaylor | agreed | 19:06 |
| fungi | yeah | 19:06 |
| anteaya | jeblair: the last item on today's agenda will probably the first post to -announce | 19:06 |
| jeblair | fungi: i want something that no one has any excuse to ignore :) | 19:06 |
| anteaya | jeblair: right | 19:06 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yeah, i think we may be thinking along the same lines :) | 19:06 |
| anteaya | good | 19:06 |
| anteaya | best chance of success | 19:06 |
| fungi | well, a weekly link to the third-party irc meeting minutes seems relatively low-volume, and makes for a good ping | 19:06 |
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| anteaya | fungi: I'll consider the thought | 19:07 |
| anteaya | let's get the other things in shape first | 19:07 |
| jeblair | fungi: hrm. that's the sort of thing that causes me to create a mail filter so that they go into a folder that i never read | 19:07 |
| fungi | jeblair: ahh, yep. fair enough | 19:07 |
| krtaylor | well, we also post highlights to the weekly newsletter | 19:07 |
| anteaya | krtaylor: that is a better place | 19:07 |
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| krtaylor | I'd vote keep it low volume | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | cool | 19:08 |
| jeblair | pleia2 send the email to -infra announcing the new lists/policies after 116989 merges | 19:08 |
| jeblair | i think i saw this :) | 19:08 |
| anteaya | it happened, yes | 19:08 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:08 |
| jeblair | as a followup, are we ready to ask people to take some topics to the request list? | 19:09 |
| nibalizer | o/ im hello hello | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | i think we're finishing up some account re-enabling mails that originally went to the infra list | 19:09 |
| anteaya | I haven't seen any new requests to redirect yet | 19:09 |
| jeblair | and i think it's fine to not be too particular about those | 19:09 |
| pleia2 | yeah, I've been hoping the current ones just finish up on -infra | 19:09 |
| anteaya | yes, and I don't know as any of the account requests outstanding from last week were fulfilled | 19:10 |
| jeblair | but probably if we get too many more, we should start asking people to use the new list | 19:10 |
| pleia2 | +1 | 19:10 |
| anteaya | yup | 19:10 |
| anteaya | I asked SergeyLukjanov in channel but didnt' get an answer | 19:10 |
| anteaya | if someone can help me with cleanup after the meeting | 19:10 |
| jeblair | okay, we may have another week of overlap then | 19:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | I've not read the channel logs yet | 19:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | sorry | 19:10 |
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| SergeyLukjanov | anteaya, I'll read it now and answer | 19:11 |
| anteaya | SergeyLukjanov: the outstanding account creation requests from last week | 19:11 |
| clarkb | I can take a stab at helping with creating accounts if SergeyLukjanov wants help | 19:11 |
| anteaya | SergeyLukjanov: thanks | 19:11 |
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| anteaya | clarkb: thanks | 19:11 |
| SergeyLukjanov | anteaya, oh, sure, I'll cover accounts creation tomorrow | 19:11 |
| jeblair | cool, once that's done we can probably at least redirect new account requests | 19:11 |
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| clarkb | SergeyLukjanov: let me know if there is a group you want me to do | 19:11 |
| anteaya | yes | 19:11 |
| clarkb | happy to help | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Specs (jeblair) | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Specs (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:12 | |
| SergeyLukjanov | clarkb, thx | 19:12 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/100363/ | 19:12 |
| jeblair | this had 2x+2s and got an update | 19:12 |
| jeblair | i think it was a minor update, so we can probably get those back pretty quickly | 19:12 |
| anteaya | yes, minor update | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | so consider this a last call. i'll aprv it tomorrow morning assuming it has at least 2x+2s. | 19:13 |
| anteaya | I asked for some expantions so the third party folks could see themselves in the mirror | 19:13 |
| anteaya | yesterday I learned they don't understand how the current infra work will benefit them | 19:13 |
| jeblair | anteaya: oh, thank you for that. | 19:13 |
| anteaya | they think it is for infra | 19:14 |
| jeblair | this is, i think very important. :) | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | extremely | 19:14 |
| krtaylor | well, partially because the commit message wasnt exactly clear to that point | 19:14 |
| anteaya | so at least a few people understand now, hopefully the share | 19:14 |
| pleia2 | maybe see about getting hashar's input too | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | krtaylor: all that was missing was third-party in the commit message | 19:14 |
| pleia2 | he's been using our infra probably the longest | 19:14 |
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| anteaya | apparently if they dont' see third-party they don't see the benefit to them | 19:15 |
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| krtaylor | anteaya, I always like commit messages that say why and to what benefit | 19:15 |
| jeblair | yeah, this and the next one are all about modularizing how we run things to make the tools easier for other people to use | 19:15 |
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| anteaya | downstream consumers apparently doesn't ahve the same ring to it | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | for instance, we don't all need our own puppet modules for zuul | 19:15 |
| jeblair | but we do need our own zuul layout | 19:16 |
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| jeblair | or, more to the point for this one, we may want to share the list of packages we're installing on build workers without also configuring my ssh key for login :) | 19:17 |
| jeblair | moving on to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/99990/ | 19:17 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: you don't like getting root on mystery boxes? | 19:17 |
| nibalizer | yea | 19:18 |
| anteaya | ha ha ha | 19:18 |
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| nibalizer | i got focused on the tech side and not the big picture | 19:18 |
| clarkb | 99990 has a lot of positive feedback | 19:18 |
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| clarkb | I am ready to go on that one | 19:18 |
| jeblair | does anyone have a reason i shouldn't +3 this one now? | 19:18 |
| anteaya | +3 | 19:18 |
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| hashar | pleia2: I am on parental leave for 2 weeks but feel free to drop an email, I might be able to process it :] | 19:18 |
| fungi | go for it | 19:18 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: doet | 19:18 |
| anteaya | hashar: congratulations | 19:19 |
| jesusaurus | yay \o/ | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | hashar: congrats :) | 19:19 |
| anteaya | hashar: hopefully the leave is new baby and not sick child | 19:19 |
| grantbow | congratulations | 19:19 |
| jeblair | hashar: yes, congratulations! :) | 19:19 |
| hashar | (meeting has been hijacked by a 2 days old baby) :D | 19:19 |
| krtaylor | hehheh, congrats! | 19:19 |
| fungi | oh! a new proto-hashar. awesome | 19:19 |
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| anteaya | that is their job | 19:19 |
| anteaya | hijack all the things | 19:20 |
| jeblair | hashar: and that's just the beginning :) | 19:20 |
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| Ajaeger1 | hashar: it will get worse ;) Congratulations! | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | haha | 19:20 |
| jeblair | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110730/ | 19:21 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: i think we need an #agreed for harshar's baby | 19:21 |
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| hashar | wife + baby are all fine. Meanwhile if there is any change that can use a review please shout :] | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #info Congratulations to hashar on his new baby! | 19:22 |
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| anteaya | hashar: best kind of news | 19:22 |
| hashar | hehe | 19:22 |
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| pleia2 | hashar: dropped you an email, take your time :) | 19:22 |
| jeblair | so on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110730/ i pushed a new patchset this morning that adds some files and drops any reference about puppet templates | 19:23 |
| hashar | and thank you for your kind words everyone! | 19:23 |
| anteaya | if the group thinks I could do it 110730 will be a great learning experience for me | 19:23 |
| jeblair | jesusaurus pointed out that using puppet templates outside of a module context can be complicated | 19:23 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: I will rereview | 19:23 |
| anteaya | but if the volume of dumb questions to work accomplished is too much, I understand if someone else wants to do it | 19:23 |
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| jeblair | and none of the files currently under consideration for that repo use templates, so i think it's best to just define it out of scope for now, unless we need to figure something else out later | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | honestly, most of the files i think are good candidates for the project-config repo are generally not templates anyway, so it should be okay | 19:24 |
| fungi | i think those become todo items for figuring out how to template and configure separately or something | 19:24 |
| jeblair | (scripts, zuul layout, jjb, etc) | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: if you want to learn more about puppet, it's a nice opportunity, at least on the review side | 19:24 |
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| pleia2 | I think we'll really need folks reviewing the changes in a test env | 19:25 |
| anteaya | pleia2: well I was thinking more about my comfort with jjb and layout.yaml and so on | 19:25 |
| jeblair | we might want to put the nodepool config itself in there, which is currently a puppet template. but i think we can change nodepool to put the secrets in another file | 19:25 |
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| pleia2 | ah, ok :) | 19:25 |
| anteaya | pleia2: oh well I'm not good at setting up puppet in a test env, so perhaps I should withdraw my offer | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | I've been working with jedimike to make it easier | 19:26 |
| fungi | jeblair: yeah, those sorts of refactoring, which probably are a one-by-one bug list | 19:26 |
| anteaya | pleia2: I believe you have, but whether it actually makes it easier, I will hold me evaluation for a while | 19:26 |
| jeblair | but we'll get a huge immediate gain just with the files already in the list | 19:26 |
| fungi | might make for a good set of low-hanging fruit bugs | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: maybe you can be our guinea pig :) | 19:26 |
| jeblair | anteaya: also, becoming comfortable with that process would not be time wasted :) | 19:26 |
| anteaya | pleia2: I'm willing to try | 19:27 |
| pleia2 | \o/ | 19:27 |
| clarkb | jeblair: agreed the initial list is quite good | 19:27 |
| fungi | i'm running some stats over the entire config repo to see the change frequebcy on individual files, whichi should identify any we might be missing | 19:27 |
| anteaya | jeblair: I was hoping for something that would give my confidence a shot in the arm | 19:27 |
| jeblair | fungi: excellent idea! | 19:27 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: yes, I hear that I need to improve my puppety skills | 19:27 |
| fungi | i'll update the list in the spec with any others i find, and a potential todo list for things which are more embedded data lists in puppet manifests or templates which could stand to get split | 19:28 |
| nibalizer | some of which, i would argue, goes in hiera | 19:28 |
| fungi | though the todo list is probably best left to follow-on specs | 19:28 |
| fungi | or just bugs/stories | 19:28 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: quite possibly | 19:28 |
| hashar | at wikimedia we have a jenkins job that let one compile catalog against list of nodes and do the diff of catalogs between the patchset and parent one | 19:28 |
| hashar | that sometime help :D | 19:28 |
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| nibalizer | thats a cool idea! | 19:29 |
| jeblair | so that one probably has at least a few days left in review | 19:29 |
| jesusaurus | nibalizer: agreed, but if we cant put templates in the new project then we have to do one or the other, we cant mix hiera and these files | 19:29 |
| jeblair | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/110793/ | 19:30 |
| jeblair | is docs publishing | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i think it's up to date, except we're still a little vague on what we'll do with openstack-manuals | 19:30 |
| jeblair | i think there was some general support for doing option 1 -- build all the manuals in the openstack-manuals repo every time | 19:31 |
| clarkb | right, we were going to see if Ajaeger1 could quantify it for us | 19:31 |
| Ajaeger1 | jeblair: I think we can figure out some stuff, once we have the first steps done | 19:32 |
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| Ajaeger1 | clarkb: what exactly to quantify? | 19:32 |
| clarkb | Ajaeger1: the cost of building all the docs each time | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | (in openstack-manuals) | 19:32 |
| clarkb | from a cpu time perspective | 19:32 |
| Ajaeger1 | clarkb: that's not too expensive - compared to what a nova jobs costs right now ;) | 19:32 |
| Ajaeger1 | clarkb: 30 mins or so | 19:32 |
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| jeblair | okay, cool. yeah, i think we have enough options with openstack-manuals that we can go ahead and get started on the rest of this and leave a final decision on openstack-manuals until later. | 19:33 |
| jeblair | (since at least no one is saying "none of those 3 options will work") | 19:33 |
| Ajaeger1 | note that we build in parallel... | 19:33 |
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| fungi | my feel is that premature optimization is best avoided for now | 19:34 |
| fungi | simplicity first | 19:34 |
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| * Ajaeger1 can easily change the scripts for the simple way and we can optimize from there... | 19:34 | |
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| fungi | yeah, optimizing where we see clear performance impact later makes sense | 19:35 |
| jeblair | cool. so i'll check in on this one again tomorrow, hopefully we can aprv before next meeting | 19:35 |
| fungi | (especially of "optimizing" means "afs") | 19:35 |
| fungi | er, if | 19:35 |
| jeblair | fungi: indeed :) | 19:35 |
| jeblair | #topic Manila project renaming (fungi, bswartz) | 19:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Manila project renaming (fungi, bswartz) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:36 | |
| Ajaeger1 | I'd like to have an +1 from annegentle on the docs repo and will ping her | 19:36 |
| jeblair | Ajaeger1: okay, we can wait for that | 19:36 |
| fungi | this was a placeholder. bswartz doesn't seem to hang out in irc much. i reached out to vponomaryov earlier today but haven't heard anything | 19:36 |
| jeblair | :( | 19:36 |
| fungi | mainly just wanting to be aware that their program application was approved last week, and they have a couple of projects currently in the stackforge namespace | 19:37 |
| jeblair | isn't "have some folks on irc" one of the things the tc asks for in a project? | 19:37 |
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| fungi | well, i also could have thought to pester people in #openstack-manila. i'll give that a shot after the meeting | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | fungi: okay, let me know how that goes | 19:37 |
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| fungi | anyway, no need to belabor this topic | 19:38 |
| jeblair | otherwise, we'll just rename their project and tell them that we totally mentioned it on irc. ;) | 19:38 |
| fungi | ha | 19:38 |
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| jeblair | #topic Fedora/Centos testing updates (ianw 02-09-2014) | 19:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Fedora/Centos testing updates (ianw 02-09-2014) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:38 | |
| Ajaeger1 | vponomarov is in Russia AFAIK - should be late for her... | 19:38 |
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| ianw | hi | 19:38 |
| ianw | a few updates on this | 19:38 |
| ianw | 1) the nodepool allocation issues -- i think everyone is happy we got to the bottom of this? | 19:39 |
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| jeblair | yep, thanks! | 19:39 |
| ianw | there was some talk of alternative allocators, other than "round-robin-at-full-capacity", which is pretty much always | 19:39 |
| jeblair | your original analysis was correct (and we came up with a way to reproduce the problem that verifies this) | 19:39 |
| fungi | i'm getting back around to rereviewing the nodepool update stack for those now | 19:40 |
| ianw | is that going to be a blocker, or are people happy with the current behavior? | 19:40 |
| fungi | the sooner we get that implemented the better, i thinkl | 19:40 |
| ianw | i think it's better than waiting a very long time for f20 nodes | 19:40 |
| fungi | (and py33 nodes, and precise nodes, and...) | 19:40 |
| jeblair | ianw: i don't think it needs to block; at least, i think we agreed that this approach sounds better than what we have now, and i'm not a fan of changing the goal posts like that | 19:40 |
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| ianw | i was thinking that some sort of parallel execution environment might be good longer term for testing changes | 19:41 |
| clarkb | yup I think we explored future improvements but they don't need to be done before current improvements go in | 19:41 |
| jeblair | ianw: so i'm happy to try this out, and barring unforseen highly negative effects, stick with it for a bit | 19:41 |
| ianw | that is something i will think about | 19:41 |
| jeblair | ianw: problem is that we don't have the resources to test at scale | 19:41 |
| jeblair | ianw: (i mean, if we had 2x nodes, we'd use them all for real :) | 19:41 |
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| jeblair | ianw: and small-scale testing is something that most of us should be able to do on our own | 19:42 |
| jeblair | ianw: along with large-scale fake testing | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | so when i'm making a nodepool change and i want to know how it's going to look with 1000 servers, i run it locally with a fake config and tell it to spin up 1000 fake servers | 19:43 |
| ianw | jeblair: yeah, i hadn't thought it through too much. but it's quite scary to deploy any changes in this area, as it seems like anything other than perfection brings down all forward progress for openstack | 19:43 |
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| jeblair | and when i want to make sure it actually works against a real cloud, i use a real account and have it spin up 1 or 2 real servers | 19:43 |
| jeblair | (also, having that config handy is really nice when i want to test a devstack-gate change -- i mean there's a daemon running that keeps making new devstack servers for me :) | 19:44 |
| ianw | ok, i think we can all agree that more testing won't hurt in general :) | 19:45 |
| jeblair | ianw: but i agree that it's a problem. i think the best thing we can do is continue to enhance the in-tree testing | 19:45 |
| jeblair | since the manual test process is slow and involved; automating that would be great | 19:45 |
| ianw | i also have a couple of minor nodepool changes out, in the agenda | 19:45 |
| jeblair | oh before we move on to those | 19:45 |
| ianw | i know that minor reviews are not high on priority list | 19:45 |
| jeblair | we should get your first two changes merged soon... | 19:46 |
| ianw | but it would be nice if things got cleared | 19:46 |
| jeblair | fungi: mentioned he wantod to review them soon | 19:46 |
| jeblair | assuming they merge in a small number of days from now | 19:46 |
| jeblair | when should we restart nodepool to pick them up? | 19:46 |
| fungi | yep, i have them up in a tab--just trying to get through the rest of the cloner/puppet integration series first | 19:46 |
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| clarkb | yup on my list too | 19:47 |
| ianw | i also have reviews out for f20-bare nodes -- is there any philosophical objection to this? | 19:47 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: considering FF is happening maybe we can shoot for a friday restart? that will let it ramp up more slowly | 19:47 |
| ianw | it requires one change i found to pull in some more recent postgresql puppet modes | 19:47 |
| ianw | modules | 19:47 |
| fungi | i think as soon as there are at least a couple of us on hand to babysit and revert if needed. shouldn't do much more than delay the gate worst case | 19:47 |
| clarkb | jeblair: otherwise it iwll just be full speed ahead during FF | 19:47 |
| jeblair | clarkb: well, if we do it friday, it should be early friday; i don't want to find problems over the weekend. | 19:48 |
| fungi | and has the chance to significantly increase our test volume/throughput | 19:48 |
| jeblair | or rather, other people to find problems, since i won't be around ;) | 19:48 |
| clarkb | jeblair: :) agreed | 19:48 |
| clarkb | or maybe we can try to get it done early tomorrow? | 19:49 |
| clarkb | I can review the changes today | 19:49 |
| jeblair | assuming it works, it should not actually be disruptive | 19:49 |
| clarkb | jeblair: good point | 19:49 |
| jeblair | only if it breaks would it be noticed | 19:49 |
| clarkb | and it has been tested :) | 19:49 |
| clarkb | ok I am less worried about it now | 19:49 |
| fungi | since we've been using the check pipeline as a barrier to entry for the gate pipeline recently-ish, starvation in check is effectively limiting the rate at which changes can get tacked onto the gate (plus it slows down iteration there in general if devs/reviewers are waiting for test results) | 19:49 |
| fungi | i'm a fan of early tomorrow (where early is that at least one of you are up, not just me) | 19:50 |
| clarkb | fungi: that is early :) | 19:50 |
| jeblair | okay, so we'll restart nodepool early morning the day after those changes merge | 19:50 |
| clarkb | jeblair: sounds good | 19:50 |
| jeblair | f20-bare nodes | 19:50 |
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| fungi | i'm hoping to finish reviewing the series this evening | 19:50 |
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| ianw | jeblair: f20-bare nodes ^ | 19:52 |
| jeblair | i don't have a philosophical objection to them (which was your question) | 19:52 |
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| jeblair | i think it's probably just worth reminding folks that the fedora support cycle is shorter than the openstack support cycle | 19:52 |
| jeblair | (as is ubuntu non-lts) | 19:53 |
| ianw | jeblair: yep, anyone i interact with who is interested in f20 i'm making sure to tell them they're signing up to move to f21 | 19:53 |
| jeblair | so we still need to focus the bulk of our testing on centos/lts, but we can opportunistically test things in master on newer distros | 19:53 |
| ianw | which brings me to centos7 ... | 19:53 |
| ianw | for long term testing | 19:53 |
| ianw | we have rackspace images and an experimental job | 19:53 |
| ianw | my request for hp cloud people to contact me about their support didn't get a response | 19:54 |
| jeblair | oh i thought someone said they were handling it | 19:54 |
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| ianw | but i found the main person generating upstream centos7 images, who has contacts within hp | 19:54 |
| jeblair | yeah, that's what i was remembering | 19:54 |
| ianw | jeblair: sorry, yes, no response from HP as such | 19:54 |
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| ianw | anyway, i would like to bring up centos7 there to bridge the gap before d-i-b support is fully deployed | 19:55 |
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| ianw | i don't want to complicate the already complex d-i-b deployment with another new architecture at this stage | 19:55 |
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| jeblair | ianw: are you satisfied with karanbir's response, or would you like me to chase down people at hp for you? | 19:55 |
| clarkb | ianw: ++ I think the easiest dib thing is to convert an existing image at a small scale | 19:56 |
| ianw | jeblair: karanbir's response is fine, and i'm working with him now, so all good there | 19:56 |
| jeblair | okay good | 19:56 |
| clarkb | ianw: rather than mixing new image with dib at least until we are completely dib | 19:56 |
| clarkb | or nearly there | 19:56 |
| ianw | i am keeping up centos7 support within d-i-b in the background and as new images are released | 19:56 |
| ianw | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/118246/ | 19:57 |
| ianw | so i hope that this will ease the eventual transition there | 19:57 |
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| jeblair | cool. i think we may be ready to re-review the dib in config patches | 19:57 |
| jeblair | so hopefully we can start exercising that soon | 19:57 |
| ianw | but that is my general plan. i am told hp should have images "soon", so probably expect to see changes from me in that regard soon+a few days :) | 19:57 |
| jeblair | sounds good | 19:58 |
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| ianw | that is all i have, thanks | 19:58 |
| jeblair | #topic The infra-manual is somewhat blocked on the Style Guide (pleia2) | 19:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "The infra-manual is somewhat blocked on the Style Guide (pleia2) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:58 | |
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| pleia2 | real quick, if anyone has opinions, please dig back into July archives and say so, otherwise I plan to chat with anne about her thoughts | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2014-July/thread.html#1591 | 19:59 |
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| anteaya | this came from a patch which used bold frequently | 19:59 |
| anteaya | pleia2 felt it was overused | 19:59 |
| Ajaeger1 | far too frequently - less is more with bold ;) | 19:59 |
| anteaya | we have no consensus on how often to use bold | 19:59 |
| jeblair | yeah. i forget the rst syntax frequently | 19:59 |
| anteaya | right , so we need it written down | 20:00 |
| anteaya | and if using what docs have works, that works for me | 20:00 |
| jeblair | so having a style guide and making sure that we start out with a good consistent style will help | 20:00 |
| * pleia2 nods | 20:00 | |
| jeblair | (once the doc exists and uses conventions, it's much easier for follow-on edits to keep the same style) | 20:00 |
| clarkb | can we use a template like for specs? | 20:00 |
| jeblair | and yeah, less is more with bold. :) | 20:00 |
| anteaya | hard to template if you look at teh patch offered | 20:00 |
| jeblair | and i think we're at time | 20:01 |
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| annegent_ | pleia2: sure happy to give input, we have an entire tagging guide, but RST is quite the non-semantic beast | 20:01 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: maybe let's just send a reminder to third-party folks about the wiki thing for now | 20:01 |
| pleia2 | annegent_: thanks, I'll be in touch once I collect thoughts from the team :) | 20:01 |
| annegent_ | jeblair: and exclamation marks!!! :) | 20:01 |
| jeblair | and discuss more next time | 20:01 |
| anteaya | jeblair: will do | 20:01 |
| fungi | we're at (over!) time | 20:01 |
| jeblair | thanks everyone !!!1one! | 20:01 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 20:01:52 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-09-02-19.01.html | 20:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-09-02-19.01.txt | 20:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2014/infra.2014-09-02-19.01.log.html | 20:01 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:02 |
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| vkmc | o/ | 20:02 |
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| annegent_ | here | 20:03 |
| markmc | hey | 20:03 |
| jeblair | o/ | 20:03 |
| ttx | russellb, mikal, mordred, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:03 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:03 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:03 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:04 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:04 |
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| mikal | Hi | 20:04 |
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| mikal | I need to bail out in about 30 minutes though to go to the airport | 20:04 |
| ttx | ok quick then | 20:04 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:04 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 20:04:46 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:04 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:04 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:04 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:04 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Governance/TechnicalCommittee | 20:04 |
| ttx | #topic Final selection of our User Committee nominee | 20:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Final selection of our User Committee nominee (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:05 | |
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| ttx | This is in replacement of Ryan Lane. | 20:05 |
| ttx | I got your suggestions and reached to them. The following people confirmed: | 20:05 |
| ttx | Andrew Mitry, Beth Cohen, Chet Burgess, Jacob Walcik, Jonathan Proulx | 20:05 |
| ttx | I set up a Condorcet poll so that we designate someone during this meeting | 20:05 |
| ttx | Sending links now. | 20:05 |
| dhellmann | do we have advocates who want to speak for these candidates? I don't actually know any of them. | 20:05 |
| ttx | OK sent. Please vote before the end of the meeting ! | 20:05 |
| ttx | Yes, any quick support ? | 20:06 |
| sdague | yeh, these folks are largely unknown to me as well, might be nice to get some statements from folks about them to help with the decision, otherwise I feel it will basically be random | 20:06 |
| annegent_ | these are all great candidates, I'm happy to talk through support | 20:06 |
| markmc | yeah, I'm a bit stuck too | 20:06 |
| annegent_ | and it's great we have more than before :) | 20:06 |
| mikal | Chet is a nova dev, he's the only one I know | 20:07 |
| ttx | Jon Proulx did some doc work | 20:07 |
| annegent_ | Beth worked on the Architecture Design Guide and has been operating OpenStack clouds since pre-grizzly. | 20:07 |
| ttx | Andrew Mitry is the Comcast architect | 20:07 |
| dhellmann | is the candidate meant to be a user, or just represent technical folks on the user council? | 20:07 |
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| annegent_ | Jacob Walcik helped me write the diablo install guide, ha ha. He is a Rackspace private cloud engineer who supports a ton of private clouds | 20:07 |
| mikal | Chet's stackalytics: http://stackalytics.com/?release=all&user_id=cfb-n | 20:08 |
| sdague | so we have affiliateion for those besides Jacob and Andrew? Curious what the rest's roles are wherever they happen to work | 20:08 |
| jeblair | sdague: ++ i don't feel i have enough information to make a recommendation | 20:08 |
| jeblair | sdague: that was to your previous point about getting statements from these folks | 20:08 |
| annegent_ | Jonathan Proulx was an author on the Ops Guide and runs an OpenStack cloud at MIT and is very active on the operators mailing list. He tests upgrade instructions and most recently wrote a network troubleshooting section. | 20:08 |
| mikal | Chet works for metacloud IIRC | 20:09 |
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| ttx | Andrew is Comcast, Jon Proulx is MIT | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | Beth works for verizon now, has worked for Cloud Technology Partners | 20:09 |
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| sdague | annegent_: cool, thanks | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | and to quantify "a ton" I think three digits? | 20:09 |
| annegent_ | really they're all great candidates and I'd love to find ways to get them all involved regardless of an "appointment" | 20:10 |
| ttx | OK, we can close the vote tomorrow if you'd like time to research them more | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | indeed, it hardly feels right to choose if we have volunteers willing to serve (how often does *that* problem come up?) | 20:10 |
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| ttx | they are a limited crew dut to the NDA on the user survey though | 20:11 |
| * russellb just joined, sorry for being late | 20:11 | |
| ttx | so we have to pick | 20:11 |
| russellb | (plane, etc.) | 20:11 |
| annegent_ | right dhellmann my thoughts exactly | 20:11 |
| markmc | yeah, the NDA thing makes this weird | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx: wow, ok, I didn't realize that was the constraint | 20:11 |
| jeblair | i love that we have an nda | 20:11 |
| markmc | also means that ideally you don't want to be changing the people very often | 20:11 |
| *** rushiagr is now known as rushiagr_away | 20:12 | |
| ttx | ok, how about we let that vote open until tomorrow night | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | sounds good | 20:12 |
| annegent_ | that works | 20:12 |
| ttx | that gives you time to do reasearch. You can also vote all equal | 20:13 |
| ttx | and defer to those with an opinion | 20:13 |
| ttx | #topic Graduation review: Zaqar (ex-Marconi) (part 1) | 20:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Graduation review: Zaqar (ex-Marconi) (part 1) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:13 | |
| ttx | flaper87: o/ | 20:13 |
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| ttx | At every end of cycle we look at currently-incubated projects, discuss progress | 20:13 |
| jeblair | did those who nominated these people have statements with them? | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:13 |
| ttx | and see if any are ready to be made a part of the next OpenStack integrated release development cycle | 20:13 |
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| ttx | jeblair: no, we nominated them :) | 20:13 |
| ttx | We did Barbican two weeks ago. Today (and possibly next week) we'll do Zaqar | 20:14 |
| jeblair | ttx: i mean, did "we" include statements as to why? :) | 20:14 |
| ttx | Then we'll do Ironic next week (and possibly the next) when Deva is back from vacation | 20:14 |
| ttx | jeblair: anne nominated like almost all of them :) | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I saw names, but nothing very formal | 20:14 |
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| ttx | NB: kgriffs has recently moved to another position, so he designated flaper87 as his permanent delegate until the September election | 20:14 |
| ttx | Let me summarize the last Marconi graduation episode... | 20:14 |
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| ttx | At the graduation review last cycle, I think the concerns fell into three broad categories | 20:14 |
| ttx | 1. Pecan vs. Falcon, and more generally lack of alignment with the rest of OpenStack | 20:15 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030385.html | 20:15 |
| jeblair | okay, so next time, we should ask for a narrative along with the nominating statement, because i have no basis for making the decision and have no avenues for any real research before tomorrow | 20:15 |
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| ttx | 2. Data-plane vs. Control-plane approach | 20:15 |
| ttx | jeblair: +1 | 20:15 |
| ttx | 3. Questionable backends (MongoDB/AGPL issue, SQLA db-as-a-queue antipattern) | 20:15 |
| ttx | both exposed in that thread: | 20:15 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030367.html | 20:15 |
| ttx | Then the graduation request was withdrawn: | 20:16 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-March/030638.html | 20:16 |
| ttx | fast-forward to today | 20:16 |
| ttx | flaper87: what would be your assessment of the current state of Zaqar in incubation? | 20:16 |
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| russellb | flaper87: and thanks for joining to represent the project | 20:17 |
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| flaper87 | So, we've addressed the missing pieaces we had since last graduation evaluation. 2 points remain to be discussed. The point w.r.t pecan vs falcon and the one with data-plane vs control-plne | 20:17 |
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| flaper87 | russellb: my pleasure :) | 20:17 |
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| russellb | the data-plane vs control-plane thing is incredibly unfortunate, IMO, as it has been completely clear to me what zaqar was trying to be from the beginning | 20:17 |
| flaper87 | As for #3, we've added (thanks to one very helpful GSoC mentee) a redis driver | 20:17 |
| russellb | as in, SQS like data API | 20:17 |
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| flaper87 | russellb: +1 | 20:18 |
| jeblair | russellb: i'm not sure i follow what you're saying | 20:18 |
| russellb | i'm saying it's unfortunate that the debate came up | 20:18 |
| jeblair | russellb: thanks, that clarifies | 20:18 |
| russellb | it doesn't make sense to me | 20:18 |
| flaper87 | What we've done for that matetr is to communicate and share as much as possible the project's goals | 20:18 |
| russellb | cool | 20:18 |
| markmc | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zaqar/Frequently_asked_questions#Is_Zaqar_a_provisioning_service_or_a_data_API.3F | 20:18 |
| * markmc likes that summary of the data-orientated position of the team | 20:19 | |
| markmc | the API requirements, particularly | 20:19 |
| russellb | i guess we should go over each of the concerns ttx mentioned | 20:19 |
| jeblair | russellb: i think, if i'm understanding it correctly, the relevance here though is not that it is implementing SQS, but rather that it is doing it from scratch rather than re-using existing queuing technologies | 20:19 |
| russellb | and we've sort of already started on #2 | 20:19 |
| jeblair | (whew, i'm still on topic :) | 20:20 |
| russellb | jeblair: :) | 20:20 |
| russellb | jeblair: perhaps, though that wasn't the context of the debate as i understood it | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | that wasn't the context | 20:20 |
| russellb | more that folks fundamentally disagreed with an SQS like API in the first place | 20:20 |
| markmc | jeblair, I don't think I've ever seen a plausible description of how you'd implement a multi-tenant SQS-like REST API using existing queuing technologies | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | the context was why the project is not providing, say, rabbitmq as a service | 20:20 |
| russellb | right, i think i've seen some pretty good analysis on that from zaqar, and they felt it didn't make sense | 20:21 |
| markmc | jeblair, e.g. using RabbitMQ as a backing for something like that seems bizarre to me | 20:21 |
| sdague | so where I remain conflicted is whether SQS is essential infrastructure to OpenStack, vs. being a useful part of the ecosystem. | 20:21 |
| russellb | doesn't mean the backends they have are the best approach, of course | 20:21 |
| stevebaker | fwiw heat will be using zaqar as an option regardless of integrated status, since it solves a real problem for us | 20:21 |
| jeblair | okay, so i guess there's two levels of potential objection -- that it does not use (eg) rabbit internally to back its api, and that it does not simply provision/expose (eg) rabbit | 20:21 |
| jeblair | it sounds like the data/control plane debate mostly focused on the second | 20:22 |
| markmc | yeah, exactly | 20:22 |
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| russellb | the first debate is really more about #3 in ttx's list | 20:22 |
| russellb | err | 20:22 |
| vishy | there is also the issue that if it really is just the second it shouldn’t be a service | 20:22 |
| sdague | flaper87: are any openstack integrated projects besides heat looking at zaqar to fill some need? | 20:22 |
| mikal | jeblair: its certainly my recollection that people were upset / confused that rabbit was being reimplemented in mysql | 20:23 |
| russellb | i mean, should it use rabbitmq, or something else other than what it has today | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | sdague: Trove and Swift | 20:23 |
| russellb | mikal: but it's not rabbit at all | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | and horizon | 20:23 |
| russellb | it's very different | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | sdague: ^ | 20:23 |
| sdague | flaper87: interesting, what's the swift use case? | 20:23 |
| mikal | russellb: sure, but that's what people were saying last cycle | 20:23 |
| russellb | i know, and i think that's silly :) | 20:23 |
| sdague | flaper87: or are those up there anywhere | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | sdague: I still have to write swift's ones down because they came up in a quick chat with notmyname | 20:23 |
| sdague | flaper87: ok | 20:24 |
| annegent_ | mikal: yeah people are hearing queues and thinking amqp | 20:24 |
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| annegent_ | flaper87: it wasn't so much a swift use case as a heat use case? | 20:25 |
| annegent_ | flaper87: iirc? | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | annegent_: there are 4 projects that I've talked to and they've shared ideas and needs for zaqar: Horizon, Heat, Trove and swift | 20:25 |
| flaper87 | I've started putting those use cases here: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zaqar-integrated-projects-use-cases | 20:26 |
| sdague | flaper87: great | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | since mose of them happened on informal chats and talks at the ATL summit and during Juno | 20:26 |
| * mikal looks | 20:26 | |
| flaper87 | s/mose/most/ | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | Trove's use case is to communicate with guest-agents | 20:27 |
| ttx | The data-plane vs. control-plane discussion is somethign Zaqar has little leverage about -- if we decide we don't want to add data-plane stuff anymore, there is littlethey can do on their side | 20:27 |
| ttx | What about the other 2 concerns ? | 20:27 |
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| mikal | flaper87: how does ironic talk to its guest agent? Is that a use case as well? | 20:27 |
| ttx | I think the addiiton of Redis solves #3 | 20:27 |
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| flaper87 | mikal: I don't know how they do it but I think it might make sense for Ironic too | 20:28 |
| ttx | we are no longer implementing a queue on top of SQL or AGPL | 20:28 |
| gokrokve | Murano is using MQ based agent too | 20:28 |
| ttx | It's a bit toung though | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yup | 20:28 |
| ttx | flaper87: is it landed yet ? the redis support? | 20:28 |
| ekarlso | sahara too no ? | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | ttx: yup, yday | 20:28 |
| ttx | ok | 20:28 |
| ekarlso | probably other projects as well just to budge in :p | 20:28 |
| flaper87 | (phew) | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | which driver runs in the gate now? | 20:29 |
| sdague | dhellmann: mongo | 20:29 |
| ttx | what about #1, alignment with the rest of openstack? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | sdague: thanks | 20:29 |
| russellb | dhellmann: any comments on oslo integration? | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | We've been adopting oslo libraries as they're released | 20:29 |
| ttx | i suspect it's tied to dataplane/controlpane discussion too, i.e. falcon justification is mostly that it's more dataplane-oriented than pecan | 20:29 |
| flaper87 | and keeping the files coming from the incubator updated | 20:29 |
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| dhellmann | it looks like they have several of the low level libraries in their requirements file. | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: are you the liaison, or is someone else doing that? | 20:30 |
| russellb | i don't think i've seen a whole lot of falcon discussion since the last round | 20:30 |
| * mikal needs to drop off now for a flight, laters | 20:30 | |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: I am | 20:30 |
| russellb | was there that i've forgotten? | 20:30 |
| jroll | mikal: not to derail, but ironic doesn't have a guest agent | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | russellb: it hasn't come up again | 20:30 |
| flaper87 | russellb: there hasn't been | 20:30 |
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| russellb | ok, so a concern ... but i'd really hate for *that* to be the only blocker | 20:30 |
| russellb | i probably wouldn't block if that was the only thing personally | 20:31 |
| russellb | that's still fixable, if the project commits to re-starting work there | 20:31 |
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| flaper87 | TBH, we focused on making v1.1 consistent and cleaning it up | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | I think a better time to discuss a migration to Pecan would be v2 when it comes | 20:31 |
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| annegent_ | russellb: yes, seems like our gap-analysis-style workflow would work for any sort of pecan<>flask work | 20:32 |
| markmc | flaper87, I saw that v2 is when you're planning on removing the lookup-message-by-ID thing? | 20:32 |
| markmc | flaper87, when do you think that work will happen? | 20:32 |
| ttx | flaper87: anything worty of note in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Zaqar/Incubation/Graduation ? | 20:33 |
| sdague | so from a deployment perspective if zaqar is in, that means operators have to deploy and maintain a nosql infrastructure | 20:33 |
| russellb | sdague: required? | 20:33 |
| russellb | it's all optional now right? | 20:33 |
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| flaper87 | markmc: We're planning to start discussing it at the Kilo summit and we'll probably decide there if it makes sense to give the community a chance to digest v1.1 before start working on v2 or if we should probably just go for it | 20:33 |
| sdague | russellb: there is no real sqla backend | 20:33 |
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| russellb | as in, only if you want zaqar for your tenants | 20:33 |
| sdague | and we're talking about heat and other services requiring it | 20:33 |
| russellb | right, because we determined that was an anti-pattern, right? | 20:33 |
| russellb | i think other services using it should be optional, that's a scope jump | 20:34 |
| russellb | should discuss that more | 20:34 |
| russellb | because originally this was a "tenant only" service in my view | 20:34 |
| russellb | not infrastructure | 20:34 |
| annegent_ | my sense is this project has a tenant only scope | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | ttx: we've put lots of efforts on integrating with the whole OpenStack ecosystem and also on having a complete documentation for users and developers | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | the heat use case is to communicate with tenants, though, right? | 20:34 |
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| sdague | annegent_: stevebaker just said heat was going to use it | 20:34 |
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| sdague | whether or not zaqar is integrated | 20:34 |
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| russellb | stevebaker: could use some more detail on that i think | 20:35 |
| russellb | out of meeting perhaps | 20:35 |
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| stevebaker | It would be our prefered method for heat/server interaction, with a fallback to swift TempURLs if not available | 20:35 |
| jeblair | the faq says it's very much over-cloud, so we're getting mixed messages here | 20:35 |
| ekarlso | heat is gonna use what? sorry for not cathcing that | 20:35 |
| sdague | putting zaqar in definitely has some implications for what infrastructure is expected to be maintained | 20:35 |
| annegent_ | sdague: heat also was going to rely solely on keystone v3 when it wasn't widely deployed :) | 20:36 |
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| annegent_ | stevebaker: ah there's the tie-in I was trying to recall, you have a method and a fallback | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | we still support v2. This is different though, since the template author chooses what transport method they will use | 20:37 |
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| annegent_ | stevebaker: ok, that's a good point | 20:37 |
| stevebaker | there is no magic, an explicit choice is always made | 20:37 |
| sdague | it's really unfortunate that we're in a state where projects are only considered successful if they are granted integrated status, because to me zaqar feels like a solid part of the ecosystem, but I'm not sure I believe SQS is essential infrastructure. | 20:38 |
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| russellb | ok, so if it's an optional tenant initiated thing, that seems reasonable to me | 20:38 |
| ttx | So at this point I hear "operational infratsructure extra burden (due to NoSQL deploy)" and "should we really reinvent a queue system rather than piggyback on one" | 20:38 |
| ttx | anything else ? | 20:39 |
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| russellb | ttx: and "API stability" i think, since they're already planning v2 things | 20:39 |
| markmcclain | russellb: +1 | 20:39 |
| ttx | russellb: ++ | 20:39 |
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| sdague | do we have information from deployers beyond rax? Is this seeing adoption in the community already? | 20:40 |
| notmyname | FYI I'd like scalable, durable, ha queues for internal swift (ie to more efficiently implement swift features | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | russellb: not really planing v2, we want to give the community and ourselves enough time to use the existing API, which we consider stable | 20:40 |
| russellb | notmyname: it's probably worth exploring that in more detail ... as it sounds like it's in conflict with what other projects use for "infrastructure" queues | 20:40 |
| ttx | I'm fine with keeping them in incubation over Api stability and freshness of Redis driver... but i don't want to keep them incubating if we don't believe deploying NoSQL is acceptable, or if we prefer control-plabe to data-plane. Because there is little short of rewriting all that they can fix that | 20:40 |
| russellb | as in, if what you're talking about isn't optional tenant initiated features, then i think it's out of the scope i had in mind | 20:40 |
| sdague | notmyname: do you see zaraq providing that better than an amqp bus? | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | sdague: catalyst will (is?) use zaqar too | 20:41 |
| russellb | ttx: yeah that makes sense | 20:41 |
| markmc | ttx, agree | 20:41 |
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| annegent_ | My sense is that it's super useful for cloud tenants and would be great for our cloud providers to have it at the ready. And other integrated projects want this ability. They did a great job of writing docs too for multiple audiences. | 20:41 |
| ttx | so in all cases we need to make up our minds on those (is deploying NoSQL acceptable, is inventing our own queue acceptable, is data-plane acceptable) | 20:41 |
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| flaper87 | FWIW, I think v1.1 is a stable API. It has things that some folks don't like but I wouldn't consider it unstable because of that | 20:41 |
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| ttx | becasue if we answer no, there is no need to keep them on the wire | 20:42 |
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| annegent_ | so from a docs perspective I won't cry "too heavy integration burden" - this team has done well. | 20:42 |
| russellb | flaper87: maybe a detailed response to each identified concerns before next week would assist | 20:42 |
| flaper87 | russellb: +1 | 20:42 |
| markmc | ttx, agree - they're the key questions; and sound more like incubation questions ... not that we can't revisit, though | 20:42 |
| ttx | markmc: I agree it would be unfortunate to reject on those architectural grounds, but if we don't believe that is accepatble, i prefer we reject late than we accept | 20:43 |
| annegent_ | markmc: agreed | 20:43 |
| russellb | definitely need to resolve them, it's no fair to keep them on the wire | 20:43 |
| jroll | if no projects *require* zaqar, than why would deploying nosql be acceptable? | 20:43 |
| russellb | jroll: did you mean not acceptable? | 20:43 |
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| markmc | ttx, they're not so much architectural concerns as scope concerns, but yeah | 20:43 |
| jroll | russellb: yes, sorry | 20:43 |
| ttx | I know mordred has a strong opinion on the dataplane vs. controlplane thing | 20:43 |
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| ttx | he should be coming back really soon now | 20:44 |
| russellb | jroll: i tend to agree with that, fwiw, though the increased burden should still not be taken lightly | 20:44 |
| ttx | I have a strong opinion that we should piggyback on domain specialists where we can | 20:44 |
| ttx | i.e. not reinvent queues | 20:44 |
| jeblair | i believe we can expect mordred and devanand1 back for next weeks meeting | 20:44 |
| ttx | unless we really really can't work with the existing ones | 20:44 |
| russellb | but can we in this case? more than they've done with redis? | 20:44 |
| jroll | russellb: I'm always skeptical about deploying more services :) | 20:44 |
| russellb | rabbit isn't the answer, imo | 20:44 |
| russellb | far from it | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | re backing zaqar with rabbit: http://blog.flaper87.com/post/marconi-amqp-see-you-later/ | 20:45 |
| notmyname | zaqar isn't reinventing queues. as in, it's offering things that don't currently existing with stuff like amqp. one example is that zaqar's queues are durable. | 20:45 |
| markmc | agree, I think we've chased that rabbit down the wrong hole | 20:45 |
| vkmc | IMO it's a different service, we shouldn't compare with Rabbit or AMQP | 20:45 |
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| russellb | markmc: ++ | 20:45 |
| notmyname | vkmc: ++ | 20:45 |
| vkmc | we are covering the cases that Amazon SQS/SNS cover | 20:45 |
| ttx | notmyname, vkmc: good point | 20:46 |
| ekarlso | kinda like magneto db, would you call it that they are offering something that a layer ontop of cassandra has vs trying to cover features of say a google compute service or aws ? | 20:46 |
| annegent_ | right, that's my thinking as well | 20:46 |
| ttx | flaper87: I think that's enough for this meeting, we'll continue next week. Anything we can discuss on the mailing-list between now and then will help clarify | 20:47 |
| ttx | flaper87: you got the list of "concerns" ? | 20:47 |
| annegent_ | thanks flaper87 for taking up the ptl role | 20:47 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: It'd be nice if we can summarize it now before you change topic | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | annegent_: my pleasure! | 20:47 |
| ttx | ok, let me try | 20:47 |
| flaper87 | ttx: just to make sure we're on the same page | 20:48 |
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| ttx | #info concern on operational burden of requiring NoSQL deploy expertise to the mix of openstack operational skills | 20:48 |
| ttx | #info concern on should we really reinvent a queue system rather than piggyback on one | 20:48 |
| ttx | (that one can be debunked by explaining the SQS case, durable queues, etc) | 20:49 |
| ttx | #info concern on dataplane vs. controlplane, should we add more dataplane things in the integrated release | 20:49 |
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| ttx | #info concern on API v2 being already planned | 20:49 |
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| markmc | that's an odd summary of the conversation, fwiw | 20:50 |
| ttx | #info concern on the maturity of the NoQSL not AGPL backend (Redis) | 20:50 |
| markmc | makes it sound like all concern, no support | 20:50 |
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| jeblair | markmc: it's not a summary of conversation, it's a summary of concerns :) | 20:50 |
| ttx | markmc: i'm trying to list the concerns for flaper87 to consume | 20:50 |
| flaper87 | I'll put those concerns in an etherpad and answer them before next week | 20:50 |
| markmc | I honestly think they've addressed many of these | 20:50 |
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| flaper87 | markmc: +1 | 20:51 |
| ttx | markmc: i'm not saying they didn't | 20:51 |
| * flaper87 hides | 20:51 | |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:51 |
| markmc | and we're not doing a very good job of explaining why they're still a concern | 20:51 |
| markmc | it's like, "here guys, have another go on the merry-go-round" | 20:51 |
| ttx | I'm just trying to summarize what points are the potential pain points | 20:51 |
| markmc | sure | 20:51 |
| ttx | flaper87: does that work ? May I switch topic ? | 20:52 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: go ahead, I got the list and I'll work on those before next week | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | thanks everyone! | 20:52 |
| russellb | flaper87: thanks! | 20:52 |
| ttx | flaper87: you might want to push a governance change to support your graduation, too | 20:52 |
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| ttx | flaper87: contact me if you have doubts on how to do that | 20:52 |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 20:52 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: it will be my pleasure :) | 20:52 |
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| ttx | * Propose guidelines for adopting new official projects (https://review.openstack.org/116727) | 20:52 |
| ttx | Discussion is still on-going on this one. | 20:53 |
| ttx | I wonder if we can really adopt those before we discuss the future of Programs though | 20:53 |
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| ttx | like whether the current program team really takes responsibility over the adopted project or not | 20:53 |
| ttx | * Add reference to neutronincubator project (https://review.openstack.org/117000) | 20:53 |
| ttx | On this one there is clear disagreement from Infra on the approach chosen in Neutron | 20:53 |
| ttx | jeblair started a thread at: | 20:53 |
| ttx | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2014-August/044125.html | 20:53 |
| ttx | Not really sure it went anywhere though, and we need to make progress fast here | 20:53 |
| ttx | jeblair: how is that discussion going ? | 20:54 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: so we're tweaking the incubator proposal | 20:54 |
| ttx | markmcclain: to something that would work better for infra? | 20:54 |
| markmcclain | items targeted for spinout will go into separate repo and items targeted to merge back into the main tree will look at feature branch | 20:54 |
| ttx | ok | 20:55 |
| anteaya | usually a patch to governance to add a repo doesn't happen until after the repo exists | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | that should align and address jeblair's concerns | 20:55 |
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| ttx | jeblair: remove your -1 when you're convinced | 20:55 |
| jeblair | markmcclain, ttx: i think those two directions are good | 20:55 |
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| ttx | * Add a Mission Statement for Orchestration (Heat) (https://review.openstack.org/116703) | 20:55 |
| markmcclain | anteaya: wanted to discuss concept w/TC before adding workload to infra :) | 20:55 |
| annegent_ | I'm trying to run through the guidelines for say, the training project | 20:55 |
| ttx | This one is still ongoing | 20:55 |
| ttx | * Add oslo.log to the Oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/116994) | 20:56 |
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| ttx | This one is a no-brainer, will approve post-meeting unless someone objects | 20:56 |
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| ttx | * Add oslo.concurrency to the Oslo program (https://review.openstack.org/117345) | 20:56 |
| anteaya | markmcclain: kk, for the benefit of anyone wondering where the repo is | 20:56 |
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| ttx | Same for this one | 20:56 |
| ttx | * The Oslo program is adopting pylockfile (https://review.openstack.org/117622) | 20:56 |
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| ttx | There is some discussion over this one, like *why* we are doing this | 20:56 |
| ttx | so i'll let it cook until next week | 20:56 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:57 | |
| ttx | jogo: want to mention your thread ? | 20:57 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone? | 20:57 |
| jogo | ttx: sure | 20:57 |
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| jogo | thread: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-tc/2014-September/000777.html | 20:58 |
| sdague | I think jogo's idea was a pretty interesting one. I think if people came up with top 5 items that would be pretty interesting, and provide some feedback into what the cross project sessions should be | 20:58 |
| jeblair | jogo: ++ | 20:58 |
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| jogo | sdague: yeah, right now I am more interested to see what the different lists are then figuring out what do do with the results | 20:59 |
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| jogo | as I am not sure what to expect | 20:59 |
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| jeblair | we've talked about the desirability of this, and jogo's suggestion gives us some concrete structure for how to get started | 20:59 |
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| dhellmann | should we hold that discussion on the -dev list, or the tc list? | 20:59 |
| ttx | ok, post them on the -dev list | 20:59 |
| russellb | i think it's a useful exercise | 20:59 |
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| russellb | i think it's also worth making sure we all agree on what problem we're trying to solve with the exercise | 20:59 |
| dhellmann | jogo, maybe you can start a thread on the -dev list then for us to reply to? | 21:00 |
| ttx | dhellman_: I wanted us to agree that it was a good idea first, but yes, the posts themselves should be on -dev | 21:00 |
| russellb | increased focus is definitely good, though i think the bigger pain (that leads to people thinking about focus) is just our review bottleneck problems | 21:00 |
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| ttx | jogo: sounds like the go-ahead you've been waiting for | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | ttx: makes sense | 21:00 |
| russellb | overall project throughput | 21:00 |
| jogo | ttx dhellmann: great I will start a -dev ML thread for folks to respond to | 21:00 |
| russellb | and also talk about what the expected consumption of this list would be in the end | 21:00 |
| dhellmann | russellb: perhaps we should be thinking about ways to train more reviewers, then | 21:00 |
| jogo | I will focus the thread on TC memebers but leave it open for anyone to respond to | 21:00 |
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| russellb | as in, is it just a sync exercise? or is it intended to go into saying "no" more? or? | 21:01 |
| anteaya | also I think it will be good as a focusing excerise for the driver writers to recognize what *is* important to the community as a whole | 21:01 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: I would like for us to pick 1-2 items from the list and put together a "task force" or whatever to actually work on them | 21:01 |
| * russellb nods | 21:01 | |
| russellb | yeah that's all good stuff | 21:01 |
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| anteaya | they might be surprised that it isn't *their* plugin | 21:01 |
| jeblair | to provide ptls/core teams some coverage in setting individual project priorities | 21:01 |
| dhellmann | russellb: the example I gave in another thread was sdague's log standardization, and notification standardization would be another | 21:01 |
| jogo | russellb: I was envisioning this as just an exercise to see where we stand | 21:01 |
| annegent_ | review bottleneck and scope widening are hand-in-hand from my view | 21:01 |
| sdague | honestly, right now, I'm mostly interested in figuring out how my view of the world with what I think is critical aligns with other people in the community | 21:01 |
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| ttx | ok, time is up | 21:01 |
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| jogo | sdague: ++ thats the idea | 21:02 |
| russellb | cool, yeah, that sounds useful | 21:02 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:02 |
| russellb | thanks everyone! | 21:02 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 21:02:15 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-09-02-20.04.html | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | sdague: that would be useful, too | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-09-02-20.04.txt | 21:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2014/tc.2014-09-02-20.04.log.html | 21:02 |
| ttx | dhellmann, dolphm, notmyname, eglynn, markwash, jgriffith, mikal, zaneb, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov: around ? | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
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| eglynn_ | o/ | 21:02 |
| mestery | \o/ | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
| notmyname | here | 21:02 |
| ttx | stevebaker is standing in for zaneb | 21:02 |
| markwash__ | o/ | 21:02 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting project | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 2 21:02:55 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'project' | 21:03 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/ProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
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| ttx | #topic News from the 1:1 sync points | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "News from the 1:1 sync points (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | Here is the log: | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2014/ptl_sync.2014-09-02-08.00.html | 21:03 |
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| ttx | We missed Cinder and Heat, will cover those later in this meeting | 21:03 |
| ttx | Swift released 2.1.0 on Monday and was excused | 21:03 |
| ttx | The general idea is that today is the last day to approve stuff for juno | 21:03 |
| ttx | Tomorrow we'll defer stuff that's not approved yet | 21:04 |
| ttx | and then we'll wait for the gate to catch up and retry stuff | 21:04 |
| ttx | In time for tagging J3 on Thursday | 21:04 |
| ttx | so that means today is really last review day | 21:04 |
| ttx | #topic Other program news | 21:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other program news (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:05 | |
| ttx | Any other program with a quick announcement ? | 21:05 |
| mtreinish | ttx: nothing from me this week | 21:05 |
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| ttx | jeblair: ? | 21:05 |
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| jeblair | ttx: nak | 21:06 |
| ttx | ok, skipping to design summit discussion while we have everyone | 21:06 |
| ttx | #topic Design Summit session scheduling | 21:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit session scheduling (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:06 | |
| ttx | I'm considering dropping the "session suggestion" website in favor of self-organization within teams (like etherpads and ML discussions) | 21:06 |
| ttx | The idea being we'll likely have a lot less slots for scheduled sessions, so rather than denying a lot more (which is negative), we should encourage people to join schedule discussions (which is positive) | 21:06 |
| ttx | We'd only use the session suggestion website for "other" projects and for the final scheduling step | 21:06 |
| mestery | ++ to that idea! | 21:06 |
| ttx | Would anybody regret the open "suggestion" thing ? | 21:07 |
| mestery | I think this is a very productive way for teams to work together on proposing relevant sessions. | 21:07 |
| jeblair | ttx: wfm | 21:07 |
| david-lyle | +1 | 21:07 |
| eglynn_ | ttx: why are we likely have a lot less slots for scheduled sessions this time round? | 21:07 |
| ttx | I think we need to make sure we reach out to operators so that they participate in that per-program topic scheduling activity | 21:07 |
| mtreinish | ttx: +1 | 21:07 |
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| ttx | eglynn_: because we are likely to use Friday for contributors gatherings | 21:07 |
| ttx | that's one day left | 21:08 |
| ttx | less* | 21:08 |
| SlickNik | ttx: I like the idea self-organization idea as well. So +1 from me. | 21:08 |
| eglynn_ | a-ha, k | 21:08 |
| ttx | So that it works, you'll have to be very inclusive | 21:08 |
| eglynn_ | I'm open to open scheduling, for the Juno summit we did it a collaborative exercise among the ceilometer core team | 21:08 |
| ttx | but overall I think it should yield better results | 21:08 |
| eglynn_ | "very inclusive" == "include a wider group than the core team"? | 21:09 |
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| ttx | yes, and reach to operators ion their list | 21:09 |
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| ttx | make sure you have a list of topics and all the data you need to choose | 21:09 |
| ttx | we'll likely have scheduled slots and the "gathering" thing | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | we've started an etherpad for oslo: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-oslo-summit-topics | 21:09 |
| ttx | the idea is to use scheduled slots for the stuff you want extra input in | 21:10 |
| ttx | since it will appear on the schedule | 21:10 |
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| eglynn_ | do we have an expectation that the proposer of a session is intending to drive the actual implementation of related BP(s) in Kilo? | 21:10 |
| ttx | while team-specific issues can be covered on ML,; spec or the Friday thing | 21:10 |
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| eglynn_ | as opposed to ... "this is something I'd love to see somebody else implement" | 21:10 |
| SergeyLukjanov | fwiw +1 on self org | 21:10 |
| ttx | eglynn_: no general expectation, but feel free to have a local one | 21:11 |
| anteaya | ttx not sure where to ask so I'll just interrupt, where do you want any third party discussions? | 21:11 |
| dolphm | eglynn_: i don't see much room for "session proposers" anymore. it's the community recognizing a need together. | 21:11 |
| notmyname | ttx: I don't follow that last part. so each program still needs to come up with their list of "sessions"? | 21:11 |
| dhellmann | eglynn_: my etherpad template separates the "driver" from "interested" parties | 21:11 |
| notmyname | ttx: and then schedule them? | 21:11 |
| notmyname | ttx: or are programs assigned a block and they manage whatever in it? | 21:11 |
| ttx | notmyname: yes, you'll still have a number of scheduled slots, in addition to the informal thing on Friday | 21:11 |
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| ttx | notmyname: on the Wednesday the conference is still running, so alignement has /some/ value | 21:12 |
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| eglynn_ | dhellmann: OK so the proposer doesn't have to be the actual driver, but surely there must be an identified driver at some point? (preferably in advance of the design session occurring) | 21:12 |
| ttx | if really the 40-min step is a problem for you we could discuss non-alignment on the Tursday (since the conference will be over) | 21:13 |
| notmyname | ttx: but instead of the webapp sessions suggestion, we have to get everyone together on an etherpad to choose the things to be talked about? | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | eglynn_: right, but if the proposer isn't the driver and no one picks it up, we probably won't talk about it | 21:13 |
| dhellmann | eglynn_: that still gives the community a way to ask us to work on something, though | 21:13 |
| eglynn_ | dhellmann: yep, that's fair enough | 21:13 |
| ttx | notmyname: yes, and which ones should have scheduled slots, and which ones should be kept for the Friday | 21:13 |
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| dolphm | the logical conclusion to this is using gerrit to manage sessions. just sayin' | 21:14 |
| ttx | I still have to check feasibility of the Friday thing wrt. the location | 21:14 |
| ttx | I'm visiting there on Monday | 21:14 |
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| ttx | so we should have a final plan next week | 21:14 |
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| ttx | i'll keep you all posted | 21:14 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 21:14 |
| notmyname | I guess I don't see the advantage of scheduling on an etherpad vs suggestion and scheduling via the webapp | 21:14 |
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| mestery | notmyname: To that point, I agree, the webapp has some advantage there. | 21:15 |
| ttx | it's a way to choose more collectively, and to avoid crazy proposals | 21:15 |
| ttx | I think eterpad is easier to mix and merge and discuss | 21:15 |
| ttx | than the webapp with all its limitations | 21:15 |
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| notmyname | how are they mutually exclusive? suggest things on the webapp and then, if necessary, use an etherpad during a team meeting | 21:16 |
| ttx | it's just a bit more painful to merge sessions etc | 21:16 |
| dolphm | ++ | 21:16 |
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| ttx | also there is less frustration about your proposal being "rejected" | 21:16 |
| stevebaker | we transferred everything to an etherpad anyway | 21:16 |
| ttx | should cut down my hate mail in half | 21:16 |
| eglynn_ | notmyname: yep, that kinda how we did for the ceilo track in Juno ... except with s/etherpad/googledoc/ | 21:16 |
| SlickNik | stevebaker / ttx: That's what we ended up doing as well | 21:17 |
| anteaya | ttx + | 21:17 |
| SlickNik | (transferring to etherpad) | 21:17 |
| ttx | notmyname: if you want to use the webapp as your etherpad, we can do that for you | 21:17 |
| ttx | the site will run for "other projects" track anyway | 21:18 |
| notmyname | ttx: no, I'm not trying to do something different. I'm trying to figure out what problem is being solved. I never had too many issues with the existing tool | 21:18 |
| ttx | but i figured removing the parallel CFP completely would just be clearer | 21:18 |
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| ttx | notmyname: so issues: parallel CFp confusing the hell out of people, hate mail when people see their session rejected | 21:19 |
| ttx | vs. collaborative schedule editing in a friendly atmosphere. | 21:19 |
| dhellmann | notmyname: we are trying to make the summit planning a discussion among the core team rather than a free-for-all | 21:19 |
| notmyname | what parallel CFP? between conference and summit? or between differetn programs? | 21:19 |
| ttx | notmyname: between conference and summit. | 21:19 |
| notmyname | ok | 21:19 |
| eglynn_ | ttx: what approx timeline is envisaged for this design session proposal gathering? | 21:19 |
| ttx | notmyname: also additional benefit of not ahving to parse crazy proposals from non-contributors | 21:20 |
| ttx | mid Sept-mid-Oct | 21:20 |
| dolphm | ttx: and one line proposals | 21:20 |
| eglynn_ | k, thanks | 21:20 |
| ttx | ok, moving on | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Early Kilo deferrals | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Early Kilo deferrals (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:20 | |
| ttx | I'd like to look at stuff that just can't make it at this point and which should be deferred at this point | 21:20 |
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| ttx | If you have stuff that is missing so many reviews it can't possibly make it now, you should defer it to kilo by marking in Deferred on your j3 plan | 21:21 |
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| dhellmann | I went ahead and moved a few things to a kilo series already. Should I move those back? | 21:21 |
| stevebaker | ttx: what is the FFE process? | 21:21 |
| eglynn_ | can't possibily make it even with an FFE? | 21:22 |
| SlickNik | ttx: how should we handle BPs that we anticipate getting an FFE for? | 21:22 |
| ttx | dhellman_: no, kilo is fine | 21:22 |
| * mestery has been moving things out of Juno but not into Kilo yet. | 21:22 | |
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| ttx | SlickNik: you could move them to RC1 and we'll review them friday | 21:22 |
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| SlickNik | ttx: okay, sounds good. | 21:22 |
| ttx | stevebaker: Starting friday we'll start ML threads for every exception | 21:22 |
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| stevebaker | ttx: ok, thanks | 21:23 |
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| ttx | and you can push the candidates to the RC1 milestone | 21:23 |
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| ttx | i'll talk to you all tomorrow to cut down the list to in-flight stuff | 21:24 |
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| ttx | Any question on that before we sync specifically on heat and Cinder ? | 21:24 |
| ttx | mestery: any progress today? | 21:25 |
| mestery | ttx: Some progress yes, still looking at needing a few FFEs post Thursday, but trying to minimize. | 21:25 |
| * mestery has been working the review board, LP, the phone, and email all day trying to wrangle things together. | 21:25 | |
| ttx | david-lyle: how about you ? your list is pretty large too | 21:26 |
| david-lyle | cutting it down now | 21:26 |
| david-lyle | a couple are close to inflight as well | 21:26 |
| ttx | ok, we'll sync tomorrow on progress | 21:27 |
| ttx | keep the gate busy tonight | 21:27 |
| ttx | #topic Heat status | 21:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Heat status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:27 | |
| ttx | stevebaker: around? | 21:27 |
| stevebaker | y | 21:27 |
| ttx | you still have 11 in progress | 21:27 |
| ttx | stevebaker: which ones are you likely to require FFE for ? | 21:28 |
| ttx | the 3 remaining "high" ones ? | 21:28 |
| stevebaker | maybe some of the mediums too | 21:28 |
| stevebaker | some just need reviews and may just miss the deadline | 21:29 |
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| ttx | any chance you could get a few more approved before they require exceptions?. | 21:29 |
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| ttx | exceptions create disruption, so we need to minimize them | 21:29 |
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| stevebaker | yes, will drum up reviews today. there are quite a few low-risk changes too, which may help their FFE case | 21:30 |
| stevebaker | I don't see any bugs which must be in j-3 | 21:30 |
| ttx | stevebaker: when can I talk to you tomorrow to finalize the list (keep only in-flight stuff in) ? | 21:30 |
| ttx | 19:00 UTC ? | 21:31 |
| stevebaker | ttx: this time tomorrow? | 21:31 |
| ttx | that's a bit late for me | 21:31 |
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| stevebaker | ttx: I'll ping you when I'm concious enough to form words | 21:31 |
| ttx | stevebaker: how early can you make it? | 21:31 |
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| ttx | hm, ok I'll try to keep an eye on IRC | 21:32 |
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| stevebaker | ~1900UTC | 21:32 |
| ttx | jgriffith: around? | 21:32 |
| jgriffith | ttx: present | 21:32 |
| ttx | stevebaker: i'll be back online around 19:00 utc tomorrow | 21:32 |
| ttx | #topic Cinder status | 21:32 |
| stevebaker | ttx: ok | 21:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Cinder status (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:32 | |
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| ttx | #link https://launchpad.net/cinder/+milestone/juno-3 | 21:33 |
| ttx | jgriffith: 6 still up | 21:33 |
| jgriffith | ttx: so I believe I'll be dumping the following: | 21:33 |
| jgriffith | ttx: secure NFS | 21:33 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: Cisco device FC zone lifecycle | 21:33 |
| jgriffith | ttx: the others are "close" | 21:33 |
| ttx | ok | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | ttx: and would be willing to do exceptions for | 21:34 |
| jgriffith | ttx: the smb stuff is locked up with dependencies on other issues | 21:34 |
| ttx | i'll be in touch tomorrow so that we defer/FFE everything that's not in-flight by then | 21:34 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: ok | 21:34 |
| ttx | so approve as much as you can today | 21:34 |
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| ttx | jgriffith: will be pinging you in your morning :) | 21:35 |
| jgriffith | ttx: :) | 21:35 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: project)" | 21:36 | |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:36 |
| notmyname | ttx: I still dont' get the summit scheduling | 21:37 |
| notmyname | ttx: but we can address that on the ML if necessary | 21:37 |
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| ttx | notmyname: oops, replied on -dev to you | 21:38 |
| notmyname | is there one big collaborative list of proposed sessions for all programs? | 21:38 |
| notmyname | or is it still a per-program list? | 21:39 |
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| ttx | notmyname: at this point, per-program lists | 21:40 |
| ttx | some on etherpads, some on whatever | 21:41 |
| ttx | most often on etherpads | 21:41 |
| ttx | announced on -dev threads recently | 21:41 |
| notmyname | ok | 21:41 |
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| ttx | ok, let's close this one | 21:42 |
| stevebaker | notmyname: its up to you whether you have strict 40 minute slots, or larger chunks with topic themes | 21:42 |
| eglynn_ | BTW wouldn't the timing be likely to push the summit scheduling into the new PTLs' terms? | 21:42 |
| eglynn_ | ... not that it's unlikely a lot of existing PTLs will retain their positions | 21:42 |
| eglynn_ | ... just I guess we shouldn't be making any assumptions about the election outcomes, right? | 21:42 |
| stevebaker | eglynn_: it always has been the new PTL | 21:42 |
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| notmyname | eglynn_: new PTLs always do the summit sessions | 21:42 |
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| notmyname | "new" | 21:42 |
| ttx | eglynn_: yes, final stuff is definitely in the future PTLs hands | 21:42 |
| eglynn_ | stevebaker, notmyname, ttx: yep, so we shouldn't be deciding now how they might want to play this, or? | 21:43 |
| ttx | eglynn_: unfortunately some things need to be decided before | 21:43 |
| ttx | like the format | 21:43 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 21:43 |
| ttx | which is what we discuss now | 21:43 |
| stevebaker | eglynn_: I'm sure some pre-planning could be done though | 21:43 |
| eglynn_ | fair nuffski | 21:44 |
| ttx | also, brainstorming themes can start now | 21:44 |
| ttx | I doubt the new PTL would object to open brainstorming | 21:44 |
| ttx | "new" | 21:44 |
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| eglynn_ | ttx: yep, that's a fair point | 21:44 |
| eglynn_ | open-ness == "motherhood and apple pie" :) | 21:45 |
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| ttx | ok, really closing now | 21:45 |
| ttx | thanks everyone | 21:45 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 2 21:45:35 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-09-02-21.02.html | 21:45 |
| eglynn_ | g'night all | 21:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-09-02-21.02.txt | 21:45 |
| SergeyLukjanov | ttx, thx | 21:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/project/2014/project.2014-09-02-21.02.log.html | 21:45 |
| SlickNik | Thanks ttx | 21:45 |
| SlickNik | Talk to you tomorrow. | 21:45 |
| mestery | bye! | 21:45 |
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