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| * Guest38702 wave | 14:00 | |
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| Sam-I-Am | hi | 14:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| annegentle | ok trying again, anyone here for the doc team meeting? | 14:00 |
| nickchase | I am | 14:01 |
| annegentle | hey nickchase and Sam-I-Am! | 14:01 |
| nickchase | but I need to take off shortly | 14:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm mostly here | 14:01 |
| sld | annegentle: since I'm around, sure thing. :-) | 14:01 |
| annegentle | #startmeeting docteam | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 22 14:01:16 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is annegentle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| * Sam-I-Am looks at coffee cup | 14:01 | |
| * AJaeger is here and sings happy birthday, anne! | 14:01 | |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 14:01 |
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| annegentle | you're up late sld :) | 14:01 |
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| annegentle | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 14:01 |
| nickchase | any chance of doing the networking guide first? | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:01 | |
| Sam-I-Am | i might be interrupted by a fedup delivery | 14:01 |
| nickchase | (well, besides that) | 14:01 |
| * annegentle looks | 14:01 | |
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| annegentle | oh yeah, meetbot was down | 14:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: rumor says you're birthdaying? | 14:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, that meeting was a mess | 14:02 |
| annegentle | hee hee yes | 14:02 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle, happy birthday to you! | 14:02 |
| annegentle | thanks! | 14:02 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well happy birthday | 14:02 |
| nickchase | happy birthday | 14:02 |
| sld | annegentle: Happy bday | 14:02 |
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| * annegentle wonders why she doesn't take her birthday off | 14:02 | |
| sld | (mine isn't til next month. lol) | 14:02 |
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| KLevenstein | happy birthday annegentle! | 14:02 |
| sld | annegentle: i am doing that, and the day before as well. ;) | 14:02 |
| nickchase | mine's next week. :) | 14:02 |
| annegentle | thanks y'all! | 14:02 |
| annegentle | cool, October's the best. Not like November at all. :P | 14:03 |
| Zemeio | Happy birthday annegentle : ) (from the whole UFSCar team) | 14:03 |
| annegentle | #topic Summit schedule | 14:03 |
| sld | lol | 14:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Summit schedule (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:03 | |
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| annegentle | hee thanks Zemeio and team! | 14:03 |
| annegentle | So I thought we'd have the schedule by yesterday but looks like it'll be another week | 14:03 |
| annegentle | there are about 32 topics for 18 slots but we'll get one for docs | 14:03 |
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| annegentle | cross-project topics for 18 slots | 14:03 |
| annegentle | that'll be Tuesday | 14:03 |
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| annegentle | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/docstopicsparissummit | 14:04 |
| annegentle | I've started marking some topics for "pod" in that etherpad ^^ | 14:04 |
| annegentle | I think the API specs/docs discussion will be in cross=project for sure | 14:04 |
| sld | was just about to ask - what is 'pod'? | 14:04 |
| annegentle | then I also want to know if you want to talk about scaling across projects? | 14:04 |
| annegentle | a pod is just a table where team members can gather | 14:04 |
| sld | ah | 14:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: you need a VC version for those of us not there :) | 14:05 |
| annegentle | mailing list to pod interfeace it is then | 14:05 |
| annegentle | I think the cross project discussion will mostly be about ensuring we have liaisons | 14:06 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle, scaling is important. | 14:06 |
| AJaeger | With Trove, Ceilometer and Heat we made some good steps forward but we need more | 14:07 |
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| annegentle | yep AJaeger -- I feel it's the one topic we should pick, sound good? | 14:07 |
| annegentle | #link https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/4a1f709ce0318c973ac87f815f92734e#.VEe6GIt4r_w | 14:07 |
| AJaeger | +1 | 14:08 |
| annegentle | that talk is one Lana and I are giving about how to work on upstream docs when you have a product based on OpenStack | 14:08 |
| sld | cool | 14:08 |
| * AJaeger looks forward to the linked talk! | 14:08 | |
| annegentle | #link https://openstacksummitnovember2014paris.sched.org/event/792d87161d517ca27ce1b212c06d695d | 14:08 |
| sld | yeah, was just about to ask if it would be recorded (video). ;) | 14:08 |
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| annegentle | sld: yes, those two will be | 14:08 |
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| annegentle | that one is about developer support, and part of the data collection is the Disqus comments on API docs | 14:09 |
| sld | cool | 14:09 |
| annegentle | so that might be interesting to docs folks as well, please spread the word | 14:09 |
| annegentle | ok, anything else on the Summit? | 14:09 |
| annegentle | #topic Networking Guide status | 14:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Networking Guide status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:09 | |
| Sam-I-Am | hi | 14:09 |
| annegentle | Their meeting has moved to today | 14:09 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: nick had to step out, what time is that meeting? | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | nick left, so i can update | 14:10 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the meeting is at 11 us/central (under 2 hours) | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | we discussed the issues with existing network content in the admin guide | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | determined that re-using content from admin guide in networking guide would be a mess | 14:10 |
| Sam-I-Am | so we'll do it the other way | 14:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | add new content to networking guide, and include it in other books as needed. | 14:11 |
| annegentle | ah ok | 14:11 |
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| Sam-I-Am | we have a contributor for the provider-type network scenario | 14:11 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i'm assigned to work on the intro parts and diagrams | 14:11 |
| AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, Elke raised a question on the mailing list regarding includes. That whole thread confused me a bit. Could you describe it again for me, please? | 14:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | now that the install guide is done, i might have more time for it | 14:12 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: sure. the original plan for the guide (and the existing code) uses a lot of includes from other material. | 14:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | after she sent that e-mail, we realized we need to work the other way around... that is, include new content from the networking guide. | 14:13 |
| Sam-I-Am | so its sort of moot now | 14:13 |
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| AJaeger | Thanks, now I understand | 14:13 |
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| annegentle | heh might want to repost to that thread :) | 14:13 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i have to find it | 14:14 |
| annegentle | just to make sure people know the change | 14:14 |
| annegentle | ok anyting else on Networking? | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-October/005353.html | 14:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | er | 14:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2014-October/005353.html | 14:15 |
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| Sam-I-Am | nothing else | 14:15 |
| annegentle | oh related to Networking (but not the guide) I will put in an api spec to their repo | 14:15 |
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| annegentle | but that comes later | 14:15 |
| annegentle | ok | 14:15 |
| annegentle | #topic Installation Guides status | 14:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Installation Guides status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:15 | |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: sounds like it's as done as docs can do | 14:15 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, tell me once I can retire the compute-api etc. I can do those changes | 14:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ubuntu seems to mostly work with release packages | 14:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | rdo has not provided release packages yet | 14:16 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: awesome, thank you | 14:16 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i'll test when they come out | 14:16 |
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| annegentle | oh I thought it was the other way round, Sam-I-Am. | 14:16 |
| annegentle | That rdo was released but not cloud-archive | 14:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | we have one bug report about glance in the rdo packages which i think it causes by non-sane defaults (rdo does not seem to update config files) | 14:16 |
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| annegentle | there are trove install fixes | 14:16 |
| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129573/ | 14:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: ubuntu is cloud-archive and they havent published a cloud-archive:juno link yet for some reason | 14:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | but the underlying repo works and i have installed using it | 14:17 |
| annegentle | ok cool | 14:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think christian has tested most of suse, but has not updated the wiki page | 14:17 |
| annegentle | I don't see other patches in review | 14:17 |
| Sam-I-Am | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/JunoDocTesting | 14:18 |
| AJaeger | Yeah, berendt tested SUSE heavily and send patches | 14:18 |
| annegentle | ok, he said he couldn't make it to this meeting | 14:18 |
| annegentle | so we'll talk about him while he's gone :) | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: if you could update that wiki | 14:18 |
| annegentle | I kid! | 14:18 |
| AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, let's ping berendt since he did the testing... | 14:18 |
| Sam-I-Am | i still have some changes i would like to make to the guide before we officially move it to stable | 14:18 |
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| Sam-I-Am | mostly waiting on bug reports, but some other things need attention | 14:19 |
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| annegentle | okay, shall we make it a goal of Oct 31st? Or is that too soon? Trying to think if before or after Summit is better. | 14:19 |
| AJaeger | Should we make a date when we create the Juno branch - or wait? | 14:19 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: my thinking also :) | 14:19 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: it'd be nice to have it done by Summit time | 14:19 |
| annegentle | But Sam-I-Am is that do-able? | 14:19 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, not on the 31st - that's too close to the summit | 14:19 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah I'll be on a plane | 14:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | i can always backport | 14:20 |
| AJaeger | 29th would work for me. | 14:20 |
| AJaeger | This time I have a short plane ride ;) | 14:20 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: you good with 29th as a goal? | 14:20 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: nice! :) | 14:20 |
| annegentle | a week from today | 14:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure. the guide hopefully wont have major changes for a while, so backports would be easy-ish | 14:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | i really need to test swift, but... time. | 14:21 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ceilometer and trove also need testing | 14:21 |
| annegentle | yeah, okay. | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | but at least the more popular/core services work | 14:21 |
| annegentle | #info Goal to cut stable/juno branch for openstack-manuals is Oct 29 2014 | 14:21 |
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| annegentle | Okay anything else on install? | 14:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | nope | 14:21 |
| annegentle | #topic HA Guide status | 14:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HA Guide status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:21 | |
| annegentle | did we manage to entice any HA-ers? | 14:21 |
| annegentle | to join our oh-so-exciting meeting? | 14:22 |
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| annegentle | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/project:openstack/ha-guide+status:open,n,z | 14:22 |
| annegentle | looks like the reviews cleared out, nice | 14:22 |
| annegentle | There are still only 7 bugs against the ha guide | 14:23 |
| annegentle | they aren't small though, such as L3 agent revisions | 14:23 |
| AJaeger | the ha guide needs one large review and update for Juno and updated packages... | 14:23 |
| annegentle | #info ha guide needs one large review and update for Juno and updated packages | 14:24 |
| annegentle | needs testing during that review | 14:24 |
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| annegentle | Hopefully the interested parties have what they need to both test and doc | 14:24 |
| annegentle | I'm not sure what else to do to enable that subteam, ideas welcome! | 14:25 |
| annegentle | #topic Website design status | 14:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Website design status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:25 | |
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| sld | website design = all of the guides, the reworking of it all? | 14:26 |
| annegentle | They've got photoshopping done, basically flat designs for both the landing page and a subpage | 14:26 |
| annegentle | and the search results page | 14:26 |
| annegentle | sld: you want to read the next link thoroughly to understand scope | 14:26 |
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| annegentle | #link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1GGKTKHDMc8A0jerdv-K3ql0udnxMr-j4DlhL2Cj6kcw/edit | 14:26 |
| annegentle | you may have noticed our docs header no longer matches www | 14:27 |
| sld | oooooooo awesome. thx :) | 14:27 |
| annegentle | so the design will help with that | 14:27 |
| sld | right on! | 14:27 |
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| annegentle | I'm still holding to "For content that we want to remain as a book primarily, this layout would not apply. Examples include the Install Guides, the Operations Guide, the Security Guide, and the Architecture Design Guide." | 14:27 |
| annegentle | (that's a pull out from the brief) | 14:28 |
| annegentle | as is this: | 14:28 |
| annegentle | "The User Guide, Admin User Guide, Cloud Administrator Guide, High Availability Guide, Installation Guides, API Quick Start Guide, and Virtual Machine Image Guide can all go to a page-based layout." | 14:28 |
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| annegentle | so we'll see, there is progress. They're putting into html/css now | 14:28 |
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| annegentle | In a related bit of work, there's a dev team at Rackspace taking on the work of splitting out the Rackspace branding from the OpenStack branding for clouddocs-maven-plugin | 14:29 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, let's sit together in Paris and get some common understanding what page based design could mean. | 14:29 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: for the writing? building? all of it? | 14:29 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1177698 | 14:29 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: installation guide mentioned in both places? | 14:29 |
| * AJaeger has some basic ideas but many questions | 14:29 | |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1177698 in openstack-manuals "Implement outside the plugin a branding (dup-of: 1271685)" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 14:29 |
| annegentle | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1271685 | 14:29 |
| *** radez is now known as radez_g0n3 | 14:29 | |
| uvirtbot | Launchpad bug 1271685 in openstack-manuals "Refactor Docs toolchain to separate Transforms from Templates" [Wishlist,Confirmed] | 14:29 |
| annegentle | those are the bugs addressed by the split | 14:29 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle, first just defining what it really is. | 14:29 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: what pages are? nav? what does the brief not answer? | 14:30 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: you should read the book 'every page is page one' | 14:30 |
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| sld | annegentle: is there anywhere I can see a mockup of the new design? | 14:30 |
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| AJaeger | Sam-I-Am, and discuss whether we understand it the same | 14:30 |
| annegentle | sld: not yet, I don't want them distracted with much input right now | 14:30 |
| sld | awwwww ok. :( | 14:30 |
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| annegentle | sld: it looks a lot more like what www.openstack.org looks like | 14:31 |
| annegentle | if that helps | 14:31 |
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| sld | a tiny bit? ;) | 14:31 |
| annegentle | we'll need html css before we can see much, believe me | 14:32 |
| annegentle | anything else on the redesign? | 14:32 |
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| annegentle | #topic HOT Template Guide | 14:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "HOT Template Guide (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:33 | |
| annegentle | what will it take to publish it on the docs.openstack.org landing page? | 14:33 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i think we're missing the main contributor... | 14:34 |
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| annegentle | yeah guess he'll be the judge | 14:34 |
| Sam-I-Am | gpocentek: ping | 14:34 |
| annegentle | They are publishing so there's that | 14:34 |
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| annegentle | ah well | 14:35 |
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| annegentle | #action annegentle to ask Gauvain when he wants to publish the HOT guides | 14:36 |
| annegentle | #topic API docs status | 14:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API docs status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:37 | |
| annegentle | I've got four patches in review for api specs in the <project>-specs repos, to get rid of the <project>-api repos | 14:37 |
| annegentle | Keystone finished theirs for v3 today | 14:37 |
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| annegentle | I still need to do neutron and keystone v2 | 14:37 |
| annegentle | so far, so good | 14:37 |
| morganfainberg | annegentle, let me know what I can do to help w/ V2 Keystone. | 14:38 |
| annegentle | even had to code some Python to get the patches done | 14:38 |
| annegentle | morganfainberg: I think I have the content, just need to make the patch, thanks! | 14:38 |
| annegentle | morganfainberg: I have yet to see how much to chunk, meaning, how many rst files to create for the patch | 14:38 |
| morganfainberg | annegentle, ack | 14:39 |
| annegentle | thank you AJaeger for offering to help with deletion | 14:39 |
| annegentle | Also want to be sure you all know there are 20 REST API definitions in integrated and incubating projects | 14:39 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, if we should declare a soft-freeze on the repos, please tell everybody! | 14:39 |
| annegentle | so this is one way to offload docs maintenance | 14:39 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: good point. No one really patches those though :) | 14:40 |
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| annegentle | still | 14:40 |
| annegentle | #action annegentle to add a soft-freeze declaration to this week's What's Up Doc | 14:41 |
| annegentle | #topic Doc tools status | 14:41 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Doc tools status (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:41 | |
| annegentle | So I mentioned this earlier, that the split of transforms from build will happen soon | 14:41 |
| annegentle | I'm taking on the testing tasks but will welcome assistance of course :) | 14:41 |
| annegentle | we'll be able to see it in the reviews | 14:42 |
| annegentle | timing wise, there's no predictability for which will happen first, the redesign or the split | 14:42 |
| annegentle | so I'm kind of just being zen about it, otherwise it's crazy-making trying to coordinate/aline | 14:42 |
| annegentle | align | 14:42 |
| annegentle | we did have an increment on openstack-doc-tools | 14:43 |
| AJaeger | :) | 14:43 |
| annegentle | for the sitemap | 14:43 |
| annegentle | and I deleted all of /grizzly | 14:43 |
| annegentle | I think that's it for doc tools -- anything else AJaeger? | 14:43 |
| * AJaeger regenerated the sitmeap | 14:43 | |
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| AJaeger | everything green on tools ;) | 14:43 |
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| annegentle | AJaeger: cool. Any news from the -infra work? I saw their meeting notes yesterday saying they hadn't gotten the swift idea working yet? | 14:44 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, correct - so no progress on docs.o.o move | 14:44 |
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| annegentle | okay | 14:44 |
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| annegentle | heh it could also be in there with the redesign :) | 14:44 |
| annegentle | ok | 14:44 |
| annegentle | #topic Open discussion | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 14:45 | |
| annegentle | anything else? | 14:45 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, but it's on their weekly agenda ;) | 14:45 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: yeah they are being diligent! | 14:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah... | 14:45 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i have a few things | 14:45 |
| Sam-I-Am | i put 'upgrades' in the agenda but i guess it was overlooked | 14:45 |
| annegentle | I would like to hear discussion on the project liaisons and scaling | 14:45 |
| annegentle | sorry didn't see it Sam-I-Am | 14:45 |
| annegentle | ah, had to refresh | 14:46 |
| Sam-I-Am | as per the usual, we move from install to upgrade post-release. it goes into the ops guide for now. | 14:46 |
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| annegentle | ready to move it out? | 14:46 |
| annegentle | separate guide or with install guide? | 14:46 |
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| Sam-I-Am | people seem to be looking at the install guide for how to upgrade, but they're completely different operations | 14:46 |
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| Sam-I-Am | not a fan of guide proliferation | 14:47 |
| AJaeger | Do we need to add a paragraph pointing to the ops guide? | 14:47 |
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| Sam-I-Am | we could do that too. however, if upgrade stick in the ops guide, i would like to use better markup. | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | the stuff we did for the print book is messy and gross | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | and if we dont plan to publish it again... | 14:48 |
| Sam-I-Am | dead tree makes no sense for something with a 6 month release cycle | 14:48 |
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| Sam-I-Am | so... | 14:49 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: disagree on the last point but agree we can move upgrades out. I'd prefer its own guide. Sounds like you think so too? | 14:49 |
| Sam-I-Am | that or the admin guide. | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | it just needs to go somewhere :) | 14:50 |
| annegentle | ah, could be admin guide | 14:50 |
| annegentle | sure | 14:50 |
| annegentle | is this a blueprint for next release then? | 14:50 |
| AJaeger | Upgrades sounds like something for a page design ;) | 14:50 |
| annegentle | heh overload overload! | 14:50 |
| Sam-I-Am | AJaeger: its sort of both. | 14:51 |
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| AJaeger | now I'm confused - let's solve in Paris... | 14:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | haha, sure i wont be there | 14:51 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: for now, where do you want me to stash the content? | 14:52 |
| Sam-I-Am | since it'll probably happen sooner than later | 14:52 |
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| AJaeger | Not? I'll miss you, Sam-I-Am ! | 14:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | i can always join irc or something if there's a meeting i need to be in | 14:53 |
| Sam-I-Am | etherpads, etc | 14:53 |
| AJaeger | drinking a beer via irc or etherpad might be difficult ;) | 14:54 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: thinking | 14:54 |
| Sam-I-Am | heh | 14:56 |
| Sam-I-Am | this stuff shouldnt be hard... | 14:56 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: I think: 1 patch to move upgrade chapter to install guide | 14:57 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: then do your cleanup patch | 14:57 |
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| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: and I can even take on those two if you want | 14:57 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: then patch for the actual steps | 14:57 |
| annegentle | Sam-I-Am: does that work? | 14:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: so move the havana-icehouse content to icehouse install guide? | 14:57 |
| annegentle | Augh versions | 14:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | and then make a new place for icehouse-juno in the juno guide? | 14:57 |
| annegentle | This is why it should be an unversioined separate guide | 14:57 |
| AJaeger | and Juno install guide would contain only icehouse-juno? | 14:57 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah :/ | 14:57 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yes it would | 14:58 |
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| AJaeger | yeah, as Sam-I-Am said. | 14:58 |
| annegentle | unversioned separate guide I think is better. | 14:58 |
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| Sam-I-Am | people would need to follow each incremental upgrade | 14:58 |
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| annegentle | then we just delete chapters as the version EOLs | 14:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | i'm not about to test all permutations | 14:58 |
| annegentle | nope | 14:58 |
| annegentle | want me to do the patch for seprate guide? | 14:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | yes, eoling make sense. do we keep the last eol'd version? | 14:58 |
| Sam-I-Am | so right now we'd still have havana->icehouse | 14:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | but grizzly goes bye | 14:59 |
| annegentle | right | 14:59 |
| annegentle | is that better for maintenance and people finding it? | 14:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | annegentle: feel free to create the guide... and perhaps copy/move the havana-icehouse content from the ops guide? | 14:59 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think so. we can always consolidate later. | 15:00 |
| annegentle | right | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | right now its more about content than the organizational stuffs | 15:00 |
| annegentle | AJaeger: does that work? see any problems with standing up another guide? | 15:00 |
| Sam-I-Am | its not super obvious in the ops guide | 15:00 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle, I just need to add it to transifex - no problem at all... | 15:00 |
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| annegentle | okie doke | 15:01 |
| AJaeger | annegentle, just go ahead - and please let me approve the patch to setup transifex first. | 15:01 |
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| annegentle | #action annegentle to pull upgrade info from ops guide | 15:01 |
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| annegentle | sure | 15:01 |
| annegentle | ok anything else? gotta give up the room | 15:01 |
| AJaeger | but no problem if somebody approves it. | 15:01 |
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| AJaeger | annegentle, go party! | 15:01 |
| annegentle | continue in #openstack-doc | 15:01 |
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| annegentle | #endmeeting | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 22 15:01:44 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-10-22-14.01.html | 15:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-10-22-14.01.txt | 15:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2014/docteam.2014-10-22-14.01.log.html | 15:01 |
| Sam-I-Am | see y'all in the other channel! | 15:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | #startmeeting XenAPI | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 22 15:02:35 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is johnthetubaguy. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 15:02 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anyone around for today's meeting | 15:03 |
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| BobBall | sorry guys | 15:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ah, hello | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic CI | 15:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:05 | |
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| johnthetubaguy | Any news on the CI front? | 15:05 |
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| BobBall | Yup | 15:05 |
| BobBall | It's all good. | 15:05 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:05 |
| BobBall | Better than good. | 15:05 |
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| matel | cool | 15:05 |
| BobBall | osci-view failures --recent 168 | 15:05 |
| BobBall | which I think is the last week's worth of failures | 15:06 |
| BobBall | Failures | 15:06 |
| BobBall | ------------------- | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 25 No tempest failures detected | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 10 Fewer than 2 duplicates | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 7 More than 10 failures | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 4 tempest.api.compute.admin.test_servers.ServersAdminTest.test_list_servers_filter_by_exist_host | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 2 tempest.api.compute.admin.test_floating_ips_bulk.FloatingIPsBulkAdminTest.test_create_list_delete_floating_ips_bulk | 15:06 |
| BobBall | 2 tempest.thirdparty.boto.test_ec2_network.EC2NetworkTest.test_disassociate_not_associated_floating_ip | 15:06 |
| BobBall | That's pretty amazing. | 15:06 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: whats the %pass? | 15:06 |
| BobBall | {'': 109, 'Failed': 39, None: 12, 'Passed': 959, 'Aborted: No result found': 6} | 15:06 |
| BobBall | about 99.6% | 15:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | cools | 15:06 |
| BobBall | or is that 96% | 15:07 |
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| * BobBall was using 'optimistic maths' | 15:07 | |
| johnthetubaguy | well, yeah, its not too shabby, all things considered | 15:07 |
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| johnthetubaguy | anything more on CI? | 15:07 |
| BobBall | Don't forget that still includes 'correct' failures | 15:07 |
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| BobBall | so people uploading broken patches | 15:07 |
| BobBall | Most of them are in the "More than 10 failures" category | 15:07 |
| BobBall | we assume that if there are 10 tests that fail then it's a severly broken patch | 15:08 |
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| BobBall | But the really nice thing is that in the last week there haven't been many duplicates | 15:08 |
| BobBall | i.e. the XenAPI driver is seeming to be very stable | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, gotcha, thats probably reasonable | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, looking stable | 15:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | #topic Open Discussion | 15:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 15:09 | |
| johnthetubaguy | any more for any more? | 15:09 |
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| BobBall | Looking forward to Paris. | 15:09 |
| BobBall | I've got some t-shirts to hand out. | 15:09 |
| BobBall | Including one with your name on John (not literally) | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | :) | 15:09 |
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| johnthetubaguy | BobBall: any blueprints for juno planned? | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | lol, kilo | 15:10 |
| BobBall | Might be worth setting up an informal gathering of people interested in XenAPI | 15:10 |
| BobBall | We've been talking about that - but can't commit to Juno BPs quite yet I'm afraid. | 15:10 |
| BobBall | or Kilo ones (good point) | 15:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hehe | 15:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | no problem | 15:11 |
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| BobBall | Anyway - no, nothing more from me. | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:11 |
| BobBall | You or matel got anything more to talk about? | 15:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | nothing major on my side | 15:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | cool | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | thanks all | 15:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | #endmeeting | 15:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:13 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 22 15:13:01 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:13 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-10-22-15.02.html | 15:13 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-10-22-15.02.txt | 15:13 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2014/xenapi.2014-10-22-15.02.log.html | 15:13 |
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| thingee | #startmeeting cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 22 16:00:01 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is thingee. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| thingee | hello everyone | 16:00 |
| bruff | hello | 16:00 |
| bswartz | .o/ | 16:00 |
| atan8 | hi | 16:00 |
| tbarron | hi | 16:00 |
| patrickeast | hi | 16:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 16:00 |
| hemna | mornin | 16:00 |
| ameade | o/ | 16:00 |
| avishay | hello | 16:00 |
| thingee | again full agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting | 16:00 |
| Murali | morning | 16:00 |
| eharney | hi | 16:00 |
| lpabon | hi | 16:00 |
| kmartin | o/ | 16:00 |
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| rushil1 | hi | 16:00 |
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| DuncanT- | Hi | 16:01 |
| thangp | o/ | 16:01 |
| cknight | Hi | 16:01 |
| xyang1 | hi | 16:01 |
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| smcginnis | Hi | 16:01 |
| thingee | #topic Kilo summit topic proposals | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Kilo summit topic proposals (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:01 | |
| thingee | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-cinder-summit-topics | 16:01 |
| thingee | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-cinder-summit-topics | 16:01 |
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| e0ne | hi | 16:02 |
| hemna | +1 for state machine as a session | 16:02 |
| thingee | hope people reviewed some of these. we don't have a lot of time so lets just keep in mind for the summit we have a couple of different sessions that can happen | 16:02 |
| hemna | thingee, how many slots do we have to fill ? | 16:02 |
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| thingee | 1) scheduled slots, we have 7 of them. these should be really for things we value getting consensus outside of cinder. | 16:02 |
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| thingee | 2) meetup, this will be for talking about processes within the team and we can improve | 16:03 |
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| xyang1 | hemna: did you add cinder-agent and brick? do you want to discuss about those | 16:03 |
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| thingee | ok so state machine | 16:03 |
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| hemna | xyang1, I didn't add those. If you think I should, I can. :) | 16:03 |
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| hemna | xyang1, I was hoping to get those ironed out before Paris fwiw | 16:04 |
| thingee | We have enhancements waiting for the state machine concept to be introduced in cinder. | 16:04 |
| thingee | from the midcycle meetup we talked about having a PoC ready | 16:04 |
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| thingee | to be looked at | 16:04 |
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| thingee | Does anyone *not* think this would be fine to have a slot for? | 16:04 |
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| eharney | yes we should have one for state machine | 16:05 |
| hemna | crickets | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | I think it's worth the discussion/ | 16:05 |
| xyang1 | +1 for state machine | 16:05 |
| avishay | +1 | 16:05 |
| thingee | #agreed state machine will be a session | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | +1 | 16:05 |
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| eharney | (i'd also like an agent and brick one as xing noted) | 16:05 |
| thingee | next use mock properly | 16:05 |
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| avishay | +1 brick, -1 mock | 16:06 |
| thingee | ameade: ping | 16:06 |
| ameade | hey | 16:06 |
| jungleboyj | +1 brick | 16:06 |
| flip214 | +1 brick | 16:06 |
| e0ne | +1 for agent/brick | 16:06 |
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| xyang1 | +1 brick and cinder agent | 16:06 |
| thingee | ameade: can we make this a cross project so other projects can take advantage of this? | 16:06 |
| ameade | thingee: I think that makes the most sense, is there a meeting to discuss cross project sessions? | 16:07 |
| hemna | eharney, xyang1 I added brick to the etherpad | 16:07 |
| thingee | and if not that have it be a slot at the meetup on friday? | 16:07 |
| ameade | i put it on the cross-project etherpad | 16:07 |
| thingee | ameade: I'm not aware of how cross projects are being decided | 16:07 |
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| e0ne | hemna: great | 16:07 |
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| ameade | thingee: sure, i'd love to just put the nail in the coffin for mock confusion, it's fairly trivial but rediculous how much confusion is caused and time is wasted | 16:08 |
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| thingee | #agreed using mock properly will be in the meet up or cross project | 16:08 |
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| thingee | async error reporting is next | 16:08 |
| thingee | ameade: this is you again | 16:08 |
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| thingee | so I think this is also fine for cross project or meet up | 16:09 |
| anteaya | markmcclain annegentle and russellb are going over the cross-project etherpad and going to have a schedule up next week, for cross-project | 16:09 |
| ameade | yeah agreed, this is a pervasive issue in openstack | 16:09 |
| eharney | i've thought about this a bit myself... IMO this could be a useful one if we have some particular proposals to think about | 16:09 |
| anteaya | it was discussed yesterday at the tc meeting | 16:09 |
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| eharney | if there aren't concrete proposals then probably not | 16:09 |
| thingee | eharney: you mean having a specific scheduled s lot for cinder sessions? | 16:09 |
| eharney | thingee: right | 16:10 |
| ameade | it may be something we want to solve in cinder and have spread throughout openstack | 16:10 |
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| ameade | I have a few ideas, the tricky part is a solution that isn't drastic to the current API | 16:10 |
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| eharney | ameade: keep me in the loop on this one regardless, i'd be interested in sharing thoughts | 16:10 |
| ameade | eharney: definitely | 16:11 |
| thingee | ok lets go through the rest and we can circle back | 16:11 |
| DuncanT- | I think it needs some discussion, since it is an area where the requirements are drasticly different between different cloud types | 16:11 |
| thingee | scheduler enhancement | 16:11 |
| thingee | xyang1: this is you | 16:11 |
| ameade | kk | 16:11 |
| xyang1 | thingee: ok | 16:11 |
| xyang1 | thingee: I submitted a cinder spec for it | 16:11 |
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| thingee | is there a lot of disagreement and complexity that we think this warrants a slot? | 16:12 |
| eharney | this is a nice capability, as far as session we may want to see whether people are mostly in agreement already on this | 16:12 |
| eharney | right :) | 16:12 |
| xyang1 | thingee: I'd like to discuss about it because there seems to be lots of opinions and I'd like to get consensus | 16:12 |
| bswartz | xyang1: please post a link to the spec for those of us who are lazy | 16:12 |
| thingee | xyang1: link to the spec? | 16:12 |
| thingee | heh | 16:12 |
| xyang1 | ok, a sec | 16:12 |
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| xyang1 | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129342/ | 16:13 |
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| xyang1 | I'll update based on eharney's comments soon | 16:13 |
| thingee | xyang1: by a lot of disagreements you mean jenkins and eharney ? | 16:13 |
| bswartz | this topic has a long history | 16:13 |
| xyang1 | thingee: :) | 16:13 |
| thingee | bswartz: that's true | 16:14 |
| xyang1 | thingee: eharney. also Duncan and jgriffith have some comments previously | 16:14 |
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| bswartz | I can't remember a summit when the issue of "inifinte capacity" hasn't come up | 16:14 |
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| thingee | bswartz: true | 16:14 |
| eharney | bswartz: i think there's actually a nice chunk of work here that isn't about that question actually | 16:14 |
| thingee | I guess no one else has a strong opinion on this being discussed? | 16:14 |
| eharney | (arg, too many actuallys) | 16:14 |
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| eharney | i think we need this for ThinLVM where the whole infinite thing is not a concern | 16:15 |
| flip214 | thingee: I've got quite a few questions for that, actually. | 16:15 |
| DuncanT- | The filter should probably maintain existing behaviour around 'infinite' | 16:15 |
| flip214 | eg. how space for snapshots should be accounted, etc. | 16:15 |
| DuncanT- | i.e. it passes but gets lowest weighting | 16:15 |
| thingee | xyang1: ok for this to be useful with the long history, please have your proposal with alternatives. I'm sure they're alredy in the spec. | 16:15 |
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| xyang1 | thingee: sure | 16:15 |
| DuncanT- | flip214: Can you comment on the spec? | 16:15 |
| jungleboyj | Sounds like this is appropriate for a session then. | 16:15 |
| thingee | #agreed Scheduler enhancement to support over subscription session at the summit | 16:15 |
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| thingee | next session is Better error handling for creating snapshot/volume from source volume/volume from snapshot/replica | 16:16 |
| thingee | winston-d: ^ | 16:16 |
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| flip214 | DuncanT-: will try to. | 16:16 |
| eharney | probably has overlap with both the state machine work and the other async error item? | 16:17 |
| thingee | can anyone speak on this for winston-d ? | 16:17 |
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| thingee | eharney: +1 | 16:17 |
| winston-d | so we have been encountered a lot of errors with that | 16:17 |
| winston-d | I mean cloneing volumes bypassing schedule and ending up no enough capacity | 16:17 |
| avishay | winston-d: what is the advantage of the scheduler reporting it over the driver reporting it? | 16:17 |
| hemna | seems like it's just something we should just do no ? | 16:17 |
| asselin | \o | 16:17 |
| winston-d | avishay: for one, scheduler can fail faster than driver | 16:18 |
| hemna | winston-d, seems like a bug | 16:18 |
| DuncanT- | Cross-backend snaps is something we don't support yet | 16:18 |
| DuncanT- | Cross backend clones I believe the same | 16:18 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-: I don't mean to do cross backend snapshot or cloning | 16:18 |
| xyang1 | there's no host field for snapshot | 16:18 |
| flip214 | DuncanT-: the drbdmanage driver will ;) | 16:18 |
| DuncanT- | winston-d: Can you explain then please? | 16:19 |
| flip214 | oh sorry, not cross-backend. | 16:19 |
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| winston-d | what i want is the scheduler should rasie proper error instead of driver trying to do a clone for a minute and then fail | 16:19 |
| flip214 | only consistency-groups, got that mixed up. | 16:19 |
| hemna | do we need to solve this here, or decide on if it's a session topic ? | 16:19 |
| DuncanT- | winston-d: But that means you'll fail even when a thin clone would hav esucceeded fine | 16:19 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-: we can keep the shortcut (i.e. no real scheduling) in scheduler. | 16:19 |
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| avishay | i don't know if there is much discussion here. if it's really a problem for the driver to do it, then let the scheduler do it. | 16:20 |
| DuncanT- | winston-d: The scheduler has less info than the driver.... jsut make the driver do the check faster | 16:20 |
| hemna | avishay, +1 | 16:20 |
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| * DuncanT- is against the scheduler doing it | 16:20 | |
| DuncanT- | I can't see why it would ever be better | 16:20 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-: no really, with driver correctly report differnt type of capacity, thin provisioning snapshot would be allowed from scheudler point of view | 16:20 |
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| DuncanT- | The driver has all of the info the scheduler has and more | 16:20 |
| thingee | sounds like we a session topic | 16:20 |
| thingee | we have a* | 16:21 |
| DuncanT- | thingee: Dunno, might be quickly solved in an online discussion | 16:21 |
| thingee | ok | 16:21 |
| thingee | anyone else? | 16:21 |
| avishay | thingee: i would say it's a debatable topic, but maybe not the most pressing issue | 16:21 |
| winston-d | this is probably more useful when we have async error report | 16:21 |
| winston-d | avishay: +1 | 16:21 |
| winston-d | I don't mind a session or not, I just want to solve the problem. | 16:22 |
| jungleboyj | thingee: Meet-up topic? | 16:22 |
| thingee | ok, we'll circle back again | 16:22 |
| thingee | jungleboyj: yea maybe | 16:22 |
| DuncanT- | Maybe winston-d and I should just go discuss it | 16:22 |
| winston-d | DuncanT-: sure | 16:22 |
| thingee | source level debugging with pycharm | 16:22 |
| cknight | This is primarily an info-sharing thing, perhaps better covered in a wiki or meet-up. | 16:22 |
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| thingee | cknight: I agree :) | 16:22 |
| hemna | cknight, +1 | 16:22 |
| thingee | anyone disagree? | 16:22 |
| ameade | +1, it's pretty cool though | 16:22 |
| DuncanT- | Looks like a 'just do it' to me | 16:23 |
| eharney | yes, cool info, needs a different venue | 16:23 |
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| winston-d | would be nice if we have a live demo or sth | 16:23 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: NFS based volume creation optimization from an image | 16:23 |
| winston-d | screen recording would be fine too | 16:23 |
| ameade | lightning talk? | 16:23 |
| DuncanT- | screen recording ++ | 16:23 |
| e0ne | +1 to winston-d about live dmo | 16:23 |
| cknight | winston-d: +1 | 16:23 |
| thingee | who from vmware proposed this? | 16:24 |
| eharney | i think this is a driver enhancement and not really a large design thing? | 16:24 |
| thingee | eharney: +1 | 16:24 |
| jungleboyj | eharney: +1 | 16:24 |
| winston-d | what was the pain for such enhancement not making into Juno? | 16:24 |
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| thingee | ok no one is here to drive this, so I'm punting it | 16:25 |
| thingee | objectify cinder - thangp | 16:25 |
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| thangp | spec is up https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130044/ | 16:25 |
| thangp | comments from josh & boris | 16:25 |
| thingee | next topic ^ | 16:25 |
| thingee | thangp: first of all thanks for getting this up | 16:26 |
| thangp | np | 16:26 |
| winston-d | Josh has quite a lot of comments for the spec | 16:26 |
| thangp | i was rushing to get it in for today | 16:26 |
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| thingee | I think it would be great to get some help from nova folks as well, so this would be a great session topic. | 16:26 |
| thangp | ++ | 16:26 |
| eharney | i'm inclined to think this needs a session if it has gotten far enough along to dive into it | 16:26 |
| ameade | +1 | 16:26 |
| jungleboyj | Sounds like something important to discuss. | 16:27 |
| hemna | I think this topic potentially ties into the state machine work | 16:27 |
| hemna | so +1 | 16:27 |
| thingee | #agreed objectify cinder for kilo session | 16:27 |
| thangp | there were concerns about performance, but nothing we can't iron out | 16:27 |
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| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: capacity headroom | 16:27 |
| eglynn | o/ | 16:27 |
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| thingee | eglynn: hello! | 16:27 |
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| eglynn | so this is a topic the WtE WG raised with me, so I'm acting as the conduit here | 16:28 |
| eglynn | seems like something that operators are interested in surfacing | 16:28 |
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| hemna | aren't drivers already supposed to report this information in get_volume_stats ? | 16:28 |
| thingee | hemna: yupp | 16:28 |
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| bswartz | hemna: +1 | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | hemna: +1 | 16:28 |
| eglynn | apparently not fully accurate in all case tho' | 16:28 |
| eharney | it sounds like this has implications wrt thin prov | 16:28 |
| hemna | eglynn, so that sounds like driver bugs then | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | eglynn: +1 again :) | 16:29 |
| eharney | so may be something that can be worked on in that session? | 16:29 |
| thingee | and it's not going to get more accurate. this is something difficult for distributed systems to report on. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | hemna: Cinder bugs | 16:29 |
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| eglynn | hemna: that and the addition of the notification from the scheduler | 16:29 |
| hemna | our drivers are guilty of this to a certain extent | 16:29 |
| DuncanT- | So file bugs where it isn't accurate, and for the emitting events, just do it[tm] | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | hemna: noboby can agree on what to report | 16:29 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: i have to agree with that | 16:29 |
| thingee | eglynn: this is a touchy topic, and really I don't think cinder driving it is going to make things more accurate from vendors honestly | 16:29 |
| eglynn | DuncanT-: I think you mentioned before it would be problematic for some drivers to compute? | 16:29 |
| bswartz | I agree that this won't get solved over all -- let's file bugs and fix it in specific cases where it's very wrong | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'd say that cinder needs to fix it | 16:30 |
| DuncanT- | eglynn: Drivers that don't report it get treated like they don't do thin | 16:30 |
| hemna | bswartz, +1 | 16:30 |
| jgriffith | and needs to fix it ASAP | 16:30 |
| thingee | how about meet up on this then? | 16:30 |
| DuncanT- | eglynn: Get a 'mostly working' solution up that suites the majority, then work ont he problem cases as bugs | 16:30 |
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| eglynn | thingee: meetup works for me | 16:31 |
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| eglynn | DuncanT-: k | 16:31 |
| xyang1 | we can probably talk about his as well in the thin provisioning session | 16:31 |
| eglynn | xyang1: sounds good | 16:31 |
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| eglynn | cinder track on which day? | 16:31 |
| thingee | thursday | 16:32 |
| eglynn | a-ha, some overlap with the ceilometer track then | 16:32 |
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| thingee | #agreed capacity headroom to split time with scheduler enhancements for thin provisioning | 16:32 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: LVM: Support a volume-group on shared storage | 16:32 |
| eglynn | cool, thanks folks! | 16:32 |
| flip214 | I'm wary of that... We've got too many people doing parallel access to shared storage, and then destroying their data that way.. | 16:33 |
| hemna | haven't we visited this topic previously ? | 16:33 |
| bswartz | what's meant by shared storage in this context? | 16:33 |
| thingee | hemna: yes | 16:33 |
| eharney | this session will be spent with people arguing as to whether or not this is a valid driver model | 16:33 |
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| eharney | i think that was the main question before | 16:34 |
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| hemna | yah I think we punted on this idea previously | 16:34 |
| thingee | mtanino: ^ | 16:34 |
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| eharney | i find it to be a reasonable idea | 16:34 |
| tbarron | who is sharing storage with whom? | 16:34 |
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| thingee | ok let me ask this, do we want to revisit this? | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: I don't :) | 16:35 |
| eharney | thingee: if we don't then i think we need to put some effort into explaining what kinds of drivers are and aren't ok | 16:35 |
| DuncanT- | I'd quite like to, it is a model with some benefits | 16:35 |
| DuncanT- | Though many issues too | 16:35 |
| hemna | I believe part of the idea is to get backend arrays to add their volumes into the lvm group and use lvm to export to VMs | 16:36 |
| hemna | it was odd | 16:36 |
| hemna | maybe I misunderstood though | 16:36 |
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| thingee | ok, I'm going to punt this and agree that we should define what we expect from drivers then | 16:36 |
| bswartz | there are some gerrit links on the etherpad about this topic | 16:37 |
| jungleboyj | We have several other options to discuss here. Seems like we may want to to circle back on this one. | 16:37 |
| thingee | mtanino doesn't appear to be here anyways | 16:37 |
| DuncanT- | So the basic idea is to use a single large lun connected to all the compute nodes, rather than have cinder re-export | 16:37 |
| DuncanT- | We've circled a lot abotu how to do that | 16:37 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: Automated discovery | 16:37 |
| flip214 | thingee: +1 | 16:38 |
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| bswartz | I have a counter proposal to this topic | 16:38 |
| bswartz | it does seem like a real issue worth discussing though | 16:38 |
| eharney | there's a lot going on in this one, some of which at least i think we are interested in | 16:38 |
| DuncanT- | bswartz: +1 | 16:38 |
| hemna | bswartz, +1 | 16:38 |
| jungleboyj | Interesting. | 16:38 |
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| DuncanT- | I think it is a real problem, but don't like the sould of this solution | 16:39 |
| ameade | i am curious about this one so +1 | 16:39 |
| thingee | I'd suggest having both proposals to be given as a topic | 16:39 |
| thingee | /topic/session/ | 16:39 |
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| flip214 | bswartz: can you add that to the etherpad? | 16:39 |
| tbarron | +1 | 16:39 |
| hemna | I think I'd like to see dynamic configuration as a pre requisite to this one | 16:39 |
| e0ne | +1 | 16:39 |
| DuncanT- | We need details before the session, or it won't go anywhere | 16:39 |
| ameade | DuncanT-: +1 | 16:39 |
| eharney | hemna: i agree | 16:39 |
| thingee | #agreed automated discovery as a kilo session | 16:39 |
| jungleboyj | DuncanT-: +1 | 16:39 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: Enable support for capturing volume stats | 16:39 |
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| * jungleboyj needs to drop. Catch you guys later. | 16:40 | |
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| DuncanT- | thingee: I thought we agreed at the mid-cycle that sessions without specs were a waste of time? | 16:40 |
| thingee | again same person who is not present..I fear about who will be driving these besides just discussions | 16:40 |
| thingee | bswartz: you can come up with a spec for your automated discovery? | 16:41 |
| hemna | if they aren't here to discuss their own topics.......... | 16:41 |
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| thingee | bswartz: and do you have someone in mind to drive it after discussion? | 16:41 |
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| ameade | never know, they may have a family emergency | 16:41 |
| bswartz | I added a line to the etherpad | 16:41 |
| winston-d | thingee: this topic seems like my previous one on volume statistics reporting. | 16:41 |
| hemna | winston-d, +! | 16:42 |
| hemna | err 1 | 16:42 |
| thingee | winston-d: yea | 16:42 |
| xyang1 | winston: yes | 16:42 |
| thingee | ok we'll move on | 16:42 |
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| thingee | next topic: Support for QoS specifications for volumes | 16:42 |
| thingee | again person is not present | 16:42 |
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| DuncanT- | I'd like to turn this into a generic 'per-volume tuning' discussion | 16:43 |
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| winston-d | jgriffith: any interests to discuss that? | 16:43 |
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| thingee | jgriffith: yeah :) | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | :) | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | I'm not completely sure what the other has going here | 16:44 |
| thingee | what? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | but | 16:44 |
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| jgriffith | thingee: what what? | 16:44 |
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| jgriffith | yes I'd like to discuss but don't know that there's much needed | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | just needs to be done | 16:44 |
| thingee | Yeah I agree | 16:45 |
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| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: Automating data management using policies | 16:45 |
| thingee | so I think this interesting to some regard. | 16:45 |
| eharney | this sounds like something for the orchestration area... | 16:45 |
| DuncanT- | I think this can be done outside cinder | 16:45 |
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| eharney | DuncanT-: yes | 16:46 |
| ameade | +1 | 16:46 |
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| thingee | anyone else? | 16:46 |
| hemna | this smells like an openstack scheduler/cron project to me | 16:46 |
| thingee | before it gets punted | 16:46 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: Data Services pluggable framework | 16:46 |
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| DuncanT- | Need some sort of PoC for this before we can have a discussion that is more than hot air IMO | 16:47 |
| eharney | this sounds like a pretty neat idea to me (VAAI/vStorage kinda stuff) | 16:47 |
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| DuncanT- | Like replication, there are so many things this can be that we could talk in circles for ever | 16:47 |
| thingee | I didn't understand this one | 16:47 |
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| cknight | DuncanT_: +1 | 16:47 |
| eharney | DuncanT-: agreed, hard to know if this has enough behind it to get done in kilo | 16:48 |
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| thingee | ok we'll punt it | 16:48 |
| xyang1 | we need to see some design details in a spec | 16:48 |
| DuncanT- | eharney: Coming up with a (disposable) PoC can be done any time | 16:48 |
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| bswartz | this topic needs to be broken up into smaller concrete proposals in my opinion | 16:48 |
| hemna | bswartz, +1 | 16:48 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: Downloading volume data to cinder node | 16:48 |
| thingee | ameade: ^ | 16:48 |
| ameade | this should be self explainatory | 16:48 |
| ameade | i haven't dug into the issue or know everywhere it is done | 16:49 |
| eharney | this is an optimization that should be implemented where possible... not sure if we need to debate design there | 16:49 |
| hemna | ameade, copy image <-----> volume ? | 16:49 |
| e0ne | +1 but some poc/spec will be very useful | 16:49 |
| thingee | eharney: +1 | 16:49 |
| ameade | yeah if we want a session on this i would totally do some POC next week | 16:49 |
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| jgriffith | I don't think we need a session | 16:49 |
| DuncanT- | What is to discuss that needs a session? | 16:49 |
| bswartz | I think we can agree that this shouldn't be done, but we need a proposal on how to avoid it | 16:49 |
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| mtanino | thingee: sorry for my late. | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | I do think there's some confusion about goals here | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | caching converted images on Cinder might be an option | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | but I'm not a fan | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | using Cinder as a Glance backing I could be down with | 16:50 |
| jgriffith | else; internal caching by backend devices is the way to go IMHO | 16:50 |
| thingee | jgriffith: why aren't you a fan of it? | 16:50 |
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| DuncanT- | Converting caches images works, cinder as a glance backend I've not really looked at but makes great sense, not sure any of these need discussion? | 16:51 |
| thingee | nova already does some caching of its own for some things | 16:51 |
| hemna | if you want to cache locally, then shouldn't glance be running locally and do it, not sure why cinder should be caching this | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | thingee: I'm not a fan of the concept of creating another image cache on Cinder node | 16:51 |
| ameade | this sounds like discussion to me :P | 16:51 |
| tbarron | ameade: exactly | 16:51 |
| DuncanT- | jgriffith: Don't do it on the cinder node, do it on the storage backend.... | 16:51 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: yeah... that was my point | 16:52 |
| bswartz | jgriffith: cinder as a glance backend will actually require a lot of work -- we looked into this during juno and ran away screaming | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | that part I like (in fact I'm working on as we speak :) ) | 16:52 |
| DuncanT- | ameade: But is it discussion better had in person? That I'm less sure of - face to face time is premium time | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | bswartz: no kidding ;) | 16:52 |
| eharney | pretty sure this topic covers more than just glance, right? | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT-: ameade I'd say no | 16:52 |
| ameade | DuncanT-: true story | 16:52 |
| jgriffith | and the reason being is that it's a rat-hole | 16:52 |
| thingee | jgriffith: I agree | 16:53 |
| xyang1 | cinder as glance backend depends on brick and multiattach too | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | there's not enough of a solid proposal here IMO | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: disagree | 16:53 |
| ameade | jgriffith: I could agree with that, haven't done the due dilligence | 16:53 |
| DuncanT- | xyang1: it doesn't have to | 16:53 |
| jgriffith | xyang1: concept could be as simple as "glance owned volumes" in cinder | 16:53 |
| thingee | Ok, with the consensus here, I'm going to punt it. | 16:53 |
| xyang1 | jgriffith, DuncanT-: ok, I was referring to the original proposal | 16:54 |
| thingee | NEXT TOPIC: brick / cinder agent | 16:54 |
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| thingee | think I already know the answer | 16:54 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:54 |
| thingee | so that's approved | 16:54 |
| hemna | +1 | 16:54 |
| hemna | :P | 16:54 |
| thingee | and that's it for topics | 16:54 |
| thingee | we still have open slots | 16:55 |
| thingee | and only five mins left | 16:55 |
| eharney | when is the decision date for this list? | 16:55 |
| flip214 | we do? | 16:55 |
| thingee | I need to know this week | 16:55 |
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| DuncanT- | Keep them as general discussion then, or spill over from the other sessions | 16:55 |
| DuncanT- | That worked really well at the mid-cycle | 16:55 |
| ameade | thingee: async error reporting? | 16:55 |
| thingee | rather I need to make a decision this week. so if people want to propose things in channel and you can get enough people behind your proposal...lazy votes in ehterpad, ok! | 16:55 |
| hemna | thingee, How about a topic related to the volume type extra specs enhancements ? https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127646/ | 16:55 |
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| flip214 | well, if anyone is interested in the DRBD 9 / DRBDmanage progress, I can fill a few minutes, too. | 16:56 |
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| flip214 | but I don't think it'll be more than 15 minutes - unless there are lots of questions. | 16:56 |
| thingee | #topic Discuss the volume type extra specs cinder-spec | 16:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Discuss the volume type extra specs cinder-spec (Meeting topic: cinder)" | 16:56 | |
| thingee | hemna: ^ | 16:57 |
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| thingee | three mins | 16:57 |
| hemna | heh ok | 16:57 |
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| thingee | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/127646/ | 16:57 |
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| flip214 | hemna: is that a way to get additional config options that a driver has into the UI? | 16:57 |
| hemna | so this spec is all about getting better integration with creating volume types from horizon | 16:57 |
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| flip214 | okay, so only about volume _types_. ACK. | 16:57 |
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| hemna | the idea being don't force the admin to go read documentation for what each driver supports for extra spec keys, when the drivers themselves know it | 16:58 |
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| hemna | provide a way to ask the running drivers what their extra spec keys are and display them in the horizon volume type creation workflow | 16:58 |
| DuncanT- | The problem being that the list of supported keys is complex, and some keys only work when other keys are present, etc | 16:58 |
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| hemna | DuncanT-, true, but that exists today | 16:58 |
| thingee | hemna: the problem I had with this is how it will work | 16:58 |
| hemna | this doesn't make this better or worse | 16:58 |
| winston-d | with or without this feature, I'd encourage admin to read the doc | 16:58 |
| thingee | winston-d: +1 | 16:59 |
| bswartz | winston-d: +1 | 16:59 |
| hemna | winston-d, sure, reading docs is always good | 16:59 |
| DuncanT- | And in some cases you need to know all the backends that a volume type could possibly end up on to get the list | 16:59 |
| thingee | but I also agree with hemna to some degree in horizon would be nice | 16:59 |
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| hemna | but the user experience here is terrible. We should do better. | 16:59 |
| hemna | the keys each driver supports in general is deterministic | 16:59 |
| DuncanT- | The problem space is really big and complex. | 16:59 |
| hemna | yup | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | -1 on displaying every vendors extra-specs key in horizion | 16:59 |
| jgriffith | horizon | 16:59 |
| thingee | sorry for the summit topics taking up time. I'll move topics we missed to next meeting. thanks everyone. | 17:00 |
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| DuncanT- | Pretending it isn't is a bad idea | 17:00 |
| thingee | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 22 17:00:05 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-10-22-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-10-22-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2014/cinder.2014-10-22-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: but +1 on doing better | 17:00 |
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| tjones | #startmeeting vmwareapi | 17:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 22 17:02:05 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is tjones. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: vmwareapi)" | 17:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'vmwareapi' | 17:02 |
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| tjones | hi sorry im late | 17:02 |
| thangp | o/ | 17:02 |
| tjones | who's here today? | 17:02 |
| arnaud__ | o/ | 17:02 |
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| tjones | anyone else?? | 17:03 |
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| arnaud__ | short meeting apparently :) | 17:03 |
| thangp | lite crew | 17:03 |
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| tjones | yeah | 17:04 |
| tjones | ok lets be quick then | 17:04 |
| thangp | are there sessions planned for paris? | 17:04 |
| tjones | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova-specs+message:vmware,n,z | 17:04 |
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| tjones | i wanted to talk about the status of these bp, but the owners are not here... | 17:04 |
| thangp | please add https://review.openstack.org/#/c/129389/ | 17:04 |
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| arnaud__ | tjones, the OVA bp has been approved | 17:05 |
| arnaud__ | I will rebase the patch today | 17:05 |
| thangp | it's about supporting adapter_type as an extra-spec in cinder | 17:05 |
| tjones | cool | 17:05 |
| tjones | thangp: this is a cinder spec? | 17:05 |
| thangp | yes | 17:05 |
| tjones | does it have a nova component too?? | 17:05 |
| thangp | kind of related to my volume hotplug bug | 17:05 |
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| thangp | nova component? | 17:06 |
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| tjones | i mean do you need to do anything in nova to support this? | 17:06 |
| tjones | or just cinder change? | 17:06 |
| thangp | yes, my volume hotplug bug to make it in: | 17:06 |
| thangp | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122251/ | 17:06 |
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| tjones | i see ok | 17:07 |
| thangp | because the code will use the adapter_type of the shadow volume to determine what controller to add to the vm | 17:07 |
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| thangp | since the volume will always be lsilogic, it will be the only one added to the vm | 17:08 |
| tjones | ok i have added it here https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/VMwareapi-kilo | 17:08 |
| thangp | i like to add other adapter types | 17:08 |
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| thangp | thx | 17:08 |
| tjones | great | 17:08 |
| tjones | any other updates on specs for kilo | 17:08 |
| tjones | ? | 17:08 |
| tjones | rado is not here unfortunately | 17:09 |
| tjones | i'll ping him | 17:09 |
| thangp | not from me | 17:09 |
| thangp | is gary here? | 17:09 |
| tjones | no he is not | 17:09 |
| thangp | i had a question why it's necessary for the boot disk to be on the same datastore | 17:09 |
| thangp | maybe you would know | 17:10 |
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| tjones | or arnaud__ will - what's your question? | 17:10 |
| tjones | i mean - more detail about the question | 17:10 |
| thangp | for attach_root_volume ... why it's necessary for the boot disk to be on the same datastore, or if it is still necessary | 17:10 |
| thangp | it's related to this bug: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128508/8/nova/virt/vmwareapi/vmops.py | 17:10 |
| thangp | mbooth asked | 17:11 |
| tjones | looking | 17:11 |
| tjones | sorry i do not know | 17:11 |
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| tjones | best to ping gary | 17:12 |
| thangp | np :) | 17:12 |
| thangp | i'll ask gary | 17:12 |
| tjones | great | 17:12 |
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| tjones | im happy to end early if you guys don't have anything else - all i wanted to discuss was BP for kilo today | 17:12 |
| arnaud__ | thangp, what do you mean by "same" datastore? | 17:12 |
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| arnaud__ | the _relocate_vmdk_volume takes a datastore in param | 17:13 |
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| thangp | the code in attach_root_volume...https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/virt/vmwareapi/volumeops.py#L560 | 17:13 |
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| thangp | it calls attach_volume in the end, but if its a vmdk, it does a _relocate_vmdk_volume | 17:14 |
| arnaud__ | yep | 17:14 |
| thangp | i'm not sure why it is needed | 17:14 |
| thangp | it "Pick the resource pool on which the instance resides. Move the volume to the datastore of the instance." | 17:15 |
| arnaud__ | yeah | 17:15 |
| thangp | is it necessary? mbooth asked, and i didnt know | 17:15 |
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| thangp | so can we just call attach_volume instead of attach_root_volume? for any volumes even the boot volume | 17:16 |
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| arnaud__ | I might missing something | 17:16 |
| arnaud__ | but if you have a vmdk vol, and you want to you use, you need to put it in the datastore where the vm folder has been created | 17:17 |
| arnaud__ | no? | 17:17 |
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| arnaud__ | so, you have to relocate | 17:17 |
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| thangp | can a vmdk volume from another datastore be attached to a vm in a different datastore? | 17:18 |
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| arnaud__ | I don't think so, if it's supposed to be the root disk | 17:19 |
| thangp | arnaud__, i understand the logic, but i think mbooth is asking ^^ | 17:19 |
| arnaud__ | let me confirm with vui | 17:19 |
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| arnaud__ | if garyk doesn't know | 17:19 |
| thangp | ok, i'll put that in the note | 17:19 |
| arnaud__ | k? | 17:19 |
| thangp | ok, thx | 17:19 |
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| tjones | ok guys - anything else? looks like no one else has joined | 17:20 |
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| thangp | good from here | 17:20 |
| tjones | lets end early then | 17:20 |
| tjones | thankd | 17:20 |
| tjones | thanks | 17:20 |
| arnaud__ | bye | 17:20 |
| tjones | #endmeeting | 17:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:20 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 22 17:20:57 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:21 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-10-22-17.02.html | 17:21 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-10-22-17.02.txt | 17:21 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/vmwareapi/2014/vmwareapi.2014-10-22-17.02.log.html | 17:21 |
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| Rajini_Ram | brick | 18:56 |
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| notmyname | swift meeting time | 19:00 |
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| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 19:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 22 19:00:15 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 19:00 |
| notmyname | hello world | 19:00 |
| notmyname | who's here for the swift meeting? | 19:00 |
| peluse | rock n roll | 19:00 |
| cutforth | hola | 19:00 |
| cschwede | o/ | 19:00 |
| Tyger | bonjour | 19:00 |
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| torgomatic | . | 19:00 |
| kota_ | o/ | 19:00 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 19:00 |
| elambert | o/ | 19:00 |
| notmyname | welcome :-) | 19:01 |
| lpabon | here | 19:01 |
| notmyname | I want to spend most of the time talking about the summit session topics | 19:01 |
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| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 19:01 |
| notmyname | acoles: here? | 19:01 |
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| acoles | here | 19:02 |
| notmyname | great | 19:02 |
| peluse | well, finally :) | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | I want to start with your topic :-) | 19:02 |
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| notmyname | #topic Proposed change to move devstack functional tests to use keystone v3 | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Proposed change to move devstack functional tests to use keystone v3 (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:02 | |
| notmyname | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128888/ | 19:03 |
| notmyname | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/130162/ | 19:03 |
| notmyname | acoles: tell us more | 19:03 |
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| acoles | ok, so the context is that some functional tests are skipped on jenkins because they need account in a non-default domain | 19:04 |
| acoles | and i would like them to not be skipped! | 19:04 |
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| notmyname | seems reasonable :-) | 19:04 |
| acoles | so the devstack changes (128888) put support in place for those tests | 19:04 |
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| acoles | i.e. setup another account, and configure the tests to use v3 API | 19:05 |
| acoles | then the change in 130162 will flip the switch (devstack takes the value for authAPI version from test.conf) | 19:06 |
| peluse | acoles, so I assume the devstack side needs to land before we commit the swift patch and also, separate question since I haven't looked at the swift side yet, does that affect our local functional tests or saio env? | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | or is it that the swift one lands before devstack? | 19:06 |
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| notmyname | which one goes first? | 19:07 |
| acoles | peluse: yes devstack patch needs to land first and 130162 is failing anyway until 128888 lands | 19:07 |
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| peluse | OK, yeah, looks like you have it workflow -1 awaiting just that thing to happen... what about saio env (local functional tests)? | 19:07 |
| acoles | i did it that way so that swift cores get to vote the test behaviour switch through rather than devstack | 19:08 |
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| notmyname | acoles: what do we need to do on the swift side to get the devstack patch landed? | 19:08 |
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| acoles | peluse: re saio, the change in test.conf is to a comment so will only affect if you have local CI that uncomments (as devstack does) or are used to manually uncommenting and need to stick with v2 API | 19:09 |
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| acoles | notmyname: so if you are happy it would be great to get some +1 form swift folks on the devstack patch - it has a +2 already | 19:10 |
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| notmyname | ok | 19:10 |
| mattoliverau | I'd say swift guys go give a +1 to the devstack change if you agree with the patch, I think that would help the infra/qa guys know that we're in ageement. | 19:10 |
| notmyname | sounds good | 19:10 |
| acoles | so devstack patch that is https://review.openstack.org/#/c/128888/ | 19:10 |
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| notmyname | acoles: anything else you need to bring up for those 2 patches? | 19:11 |
| notmyname | acoles: thanks for working on it! | 19:11 |
| peluse | mr v3! | 19:11 |
| acoles | if/when that lands i will ping swift folks about 130162 | 19:11 |
| acoles | peluse: roll on v4, i'm ready ;) | 19:11 |
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| notmyname | heh | 19:11 |
| mattoliverau | lol | 19:11 |
| notmyname | watch out, they might! ;-) | 19:11 |
| clayg | yeah careful what you wish for :\ | 19:12 |
| notmyname | ok, let's move on to the paris scheduling | 19:12 |
| notmyname | #topic paris summit scheduling | 19:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "paris summit scheduling (Meeting topic: swift)" | 19:12 | |
| * clayg dusts off his devstack vm | 19:12 | |
| notmyname | who here is going to be in paris? | 19:13 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 19:13 |
| peluse | o/ | 19:13 |
| kota_ | o/ | 19:13 |
| gvernik | i am | 19:13 |
| lpabon | me | 19:13 |
| acoles | oui | 19:13 |
| peluse | nice! | 19:13 |
| clayg | o/ | 19:13 |
| notmyname | great! | 19:13 |
| clayg | kota_: !!!! | 19:13 |
| * cutforth wishes he was going to Paris, but is saddened he is not | 19:13 | |
| Tyger | I'll be there | 19:13 |
| kota_ | clayg: :) | 19:13 |
| lpabon | tdasilva is going also | 19:13 |
| tdasilva | o/ | 19:13 |
| peluse | kota you must be the king of frequent flyer miles :) | 19:14 |
| notmyname | lol | 19:14 |
| notmyname | so here's what I know about the design summit for swift | 19:14 |
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| kota_ | peluse: lol | 19:14 |
| notmyname | 1) we've got 6 slots to schedule | 19:14 |
| notmyname | 2) we've got a half-day of unscheduled time on Friday | 19:14 |
| clayg | lol (?) at devstack "World dumping..." | 19:14 |
| notmyname | 3) there are cross-project topics that we should look at | 19:14 |
| notmyname | 4) near-final schedule for swift sessions should be published by next tuesday | 19:15 |
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| peluse | wrt cross project - meaning we should make sure that a pile of us attend those sessions whenever they are scheduled or that we should dicusss them in our free block? | 19:15 |
| notmyname | so here's what I want to do now. I want to go over what has been proposed and prioritize them. then I will take that and schedule them later this week or this weekend and push it up for the formal schedule | 19:15 |
| notmyname | for cross-project, meaning that we should look at what's scheduled and attend the ones that pertain to swift/storage | 19:16 |
| clayg | peluse: yeah like if glance wants to talk about the swift storage backend - we should consider going, if cinder wants to talk about volume archives to object storage we should go | 19:17 |
| notmyname | peluse: meaning, don't just focus on the narrow swift things, but take advantage of the other in-person conversations while we're together ;-) | 19:17 |
| notmyname | clayg: yup. exactly | 19:17 |
| clayg | peluse: if olso wants to talk about how they're nazi's - well.... notmyname should go | 19:17 |
| peluse | agreed, one of my co-workers (Reddy Chagham) has some cross project topics that, if scheduled, should draw some of us from the Swift side for sure | 19:17 |
| notmyname | clayg: I think Ihave other commitments during that time block ;-) | 19:17 |
| peluse | well, I typed that "agreed" before clayg's comment | 19:17 |
| clayg | hehehehehhehe - i'm tricky like that | 19:18 |
| notmyname | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-swift-summit-topics | 19:18 |
| notmyname | ^ there's the etherpad of our proposed sessions | 19:18 |
| notmyname | so let's go through them one at a time, top to bottom | 19:18 |
| notmyname | first, erasure code overview | 19:18 |
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| notmyname | I proposed this one, but I suspect peluse might have one or two things to say ;-) | 19:19 |
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| peluse | so we can spend hours on that... we should narrow down to something more specific that people can get into | 19:19 |
| notmyname | IMO this needs to happen since it's a big part of current work | 19:19 |
| notmyname | peluse: agreed | 19:19 |
| peluse | like make the PUT path/MIME support or the reconstructor in detail (one of those) | 19:19 |
| peluse | and then maybe an overall ststus thingy for the open session in causal conversation | 19:19 |
| notmyname | with an eye to an overview of the design? | 19:19 |
| * clayg cries at MIME (because he doesn't have any better ideas) | 19:20 | |
| peluse | BTW... latest design spec is really fun to read for anyone that wants to see it; http://docs-draft.openstack.org/90/125190/8/gate/gate-swift-specs-docs/2d2cf67/doc/build/html/specs/swift/erasure_coding.html | 19:20 |
| peluse | yes | 19:20 |
| notmyname | I wonder if there's any chance of having rudamentary PUT/GET patch support by then | 19:20 |
| peluse | there should be I think, tsg? | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | well, tsg and torgomatic | 19:20 |
| clayg | peluse: it's getting big - i'm having a hard time keeping up with drift w/o having to just re-read the thing from top to bottom | 19:20 |
| * peluse is making MIME signals to clayg right now :) | 19:20 | |
| tsg | notmyname: yes, a first version of PUT+MIME patch should up | 19:20 |
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| notmyname | torgomatic is typing on PUT stuff right now I think | 19:21 |
| torgomatic | yeah, I was curious how it'd go, and I think I might have some stuff soonish | 19:21 |
| peluse | fantastic! | 19:21 |
| notmyname | peluse: can you add some notes to the etherpad of what specifically you want to cover during the formal session? | 19:21 |
| peluse | back to clayg's comment wrt the design spec - yeah it is getting big so maybe we take the EC sessions and do 50% overview and 50% drill down on one topic (like PUT/MIME or something) | 19:22 |
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| peluse | yes, I'll do that | 19:22 |
| notmyname | peluse: thanks | 19:22 |
| notmyname | ok, next topic proposed | 19:22 |
| notmyname | queue integration and/or callbacks | 19:22 |
| notmyname | this is something that's come up from time to time. I think it's pretty interesting, but IMO it's not a top priority for paris | 19:23 |
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| notmyname | mostly because there isn't actually anyone working on this in the near term that I know of | 19:23 |
| notmyname | so I'd only schedule this one if there aren't less important ones. but I'd liek to have it on the whiteboard for the informal sessions | 19:23 |
| clayg | notmyname: maybe the zerovm guys? who knows? | 19:24 |
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| notmyname | yeah, maybe | 19:24 |
| torgomatic | you mean Swift emitting events or consuming them? | 19:24 |
| mattoliverau | Why dont we push it to the 1/2 conversations, the if we have time :) | 19:24 |
| torgomatic | one of these things is reasonable, one is not :) | 19:24 |
| notmyname | that's the thing. on the other hand paris might be the good place to talk with zerovm/zaqar/etc | 19:24 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: swift putting stuff on a queue or otherwise emitting events when something happens | 19:25 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: okay, the good one then. got it. | 19:25 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:25 |
| cschwede | +1 on this :9 | 19:25 |
| notmyname | ok :-) | 19:25 |
| notmyname | I'll come back to it depending on how the other proposed go :-) | 19:26 |
| notmyname | next up | 19:26 |
| notmyname | service tokens | 19:26 |
| notmyname | this is something we talked about in westford | 19:26 |
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| notmyname | it has the advantage of having integration with cinder/glance, so paris is a good time to talk about it | 19:26 |
| acoles | donagh and i have been doing more work on that since westford and will have a revised spec real soon | 19:26 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:27 |
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| notmyname | acoles: both of you will be in paris? | 19:27 |
| acoles | just me unfortunately | 19:27 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:27 |
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| clayg | service tokens sounds like something I will probably not understand very well :\ | 19:28 |
| notmyname | so higer priority (because of other projects) than queuing | 19:28 |
| notmyname | clayg: 2 auth tokens at the same time | 19:28 |
| clayg | when 8k isn't enough - you've always got 16k | 19:28 |
| peluse | do we need to use service token to use the restrooms in Paris? | 19:29 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:29 |
| clayg | why have one when you can have two for only twice as much! | 19:29 |
| torgomatic | I guess if you've got a million dollars, that's a thing you can do | 19:29 |
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| clayg | dfg!!!! | 19:29 |
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| dfg | hey clayg | 19:29 |
| notmyname | ok, next proposed session | 19:29 |
| notmyname | performance improvements in all-in-one (PACO) deployments | 19:30 |
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| notmyname | this was brought up and discussed in westford | 19:30 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: anything to add here | 19:30 |
| notmyname | ? | 19:30 |
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| tdasilva | I talked to Ignacio yesterday, he is already in Paris | 19:30 |
| tdasilva | both of us have been doing some work on it | 19:30 |
| notmyname | ok, wow | 19:30 |
| tdasilva | and would like to discuss with the group about it | 19:30 |
| notmyname | I think it's a really interesting idea, but could be done in the ad-hoc sessions. | 19:31 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: argue with me :-) | 19:31 |
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| * tdasilva is really bad at that | 19:31 | |
| tdasilva | hehe | 19:31 |
| notmyname | lol | 19:31 |
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| tdasilva | not sure what the format of the ad-hoc sessions are | 19:31 |
| notmyname | ok, what does everyone else think? better or worse than queue integration for a formal session? | 19:31 |
| tdasilva | but would definetely like to have some time to talk about it | 19:31 |
| peluse | better | 19:31 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: the ad-hoc sessions will be very much like westford | 19:32 |
| acoles | better | 19:32 |
| notmyname | doen :-) | 19:32 |
| notmyname | it's better | 19:32 |
| notmyname | next up | 19:32 |
| notmyname | app developer tools | 19:32 |
| notmyname | I proposed this one. here's my thinking | 19:32 |
| notmyname | we've got a pretty cool storage engine, but we need to make sure people use it | 19:33 |
| notmyname | that means working on producing stuff as the swift dev that make it easier for the ecosystem to grow. | 19:33 |
| cschwede | notmyname: is this limited to a python client or other languages as well? | 19:33 |
| notmyname | this session would be to disucss what those things are and find people to do it | 19:33 |
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| notmyname | cschwede: yes clients, but also docs, setup scripts, other guides | 19:34 |
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| notmyname | mostly I see it as a gap in the community right now, and I don't know who's going to fill it | 19:34 |
| cschwede | notmyname: ok, sounds like „everything“ on the user/dev side. great | 19:34 |
| notmyname | thoughts? | 19:34 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: does this involve ops tools such as deployment and monitoring? | 19:35 |
| peluse | maybe we can find a company that focuses its core business on Swift :) | 19:35 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: no. app-dev | 19:35 |
| notmyname | peluse: hmm ;-) | 19:35 |
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| * cschwede thinks this topic is important… | 19:35 | |
| notmyname | cschwede: important as in we should take it upon ourselves? or important as in "yeah, somebody should do something about it" | 19:36 |
| mattoliverau | +1 the idea, our documentation is good but samples etc should help adopt more usage. | 19:36 |
| peluse | agree... did the data migration middleware from Gil show up once as a topic on etherpad? Seems like a good example of something that falls in this category | 19:36 |
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| mattoliverau | we should, being the people that undertand the middle wares.. and hopefully foster app devs to get involved | 19:36 |
| zaitcev | do we have a Go client | 19:37 |
| cschwede | notmyname: we should work on this (imo) - if „somebody“ needs to work on this we start again in 5-6 months | 19:37 |
| gvernik | peluse: I added it there | 19:37 |
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| peluse | ahh, great | 19:37 |
| notmyname | peluse: and we could choose to combine sessions too, if that's best | 19:37 |
| peluse | was right in front of me, must be going blind... | 19:37 |
| notmyname | peluse: go get a bigger monitor ;-) | 19:37 |
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| peluse | bigger is indeed better... | 19:38 |
| notmyname | so on a scale of 1-10 (10 being highest), where would rank this session topic? | 19:38 |
| notmyname | (FWIW, we have 10 proposed topics for 6 slots) | 19:38 |
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| notmyname | ie is this one 1 of the 4 that gets moved to the ad-hoc discussions | 19:39 |
| peluse | that probably makes the most sense becaues it will be a lot of general ad-hoc discussion | 19:39 |
| mattoliverau | 5-6, it should be discussed.. but might be ok in the ad-hoc.. so long as it gets covered | 19:39 |
| tdasilva | i'd vote this is less than the previous one :P | 19:39 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:39 |
| Tyger | It seems like a good topic for ad-hoc | 19:39 |
| peluse | yeah, I'd say 6 | 19:39 |
| cschwede | notmyname: i’m fine with a ad-hoc for this, but then we should make sure it get’s covered by a few cores | 19:39 |
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| notmyname | ok | 19:40 |
| acoles | sounds like goal will be to generate a list of ideas, ad-hoc session sounds good | 19:40 |
| clayg | notmyname: it's pretty high for me - but I'd really like it to leverage some community participation - we have so much input from people who develop deploy and operate swift - be great to have some input from consumers beyond "I store the lolcatz" and "I upload the backups" | 19:40 |
| notmyname | yeah | 19:40 |
| notmyname | ok, next one | 19:40 |
| notmyname | status of python-swiftclient | 19:40 |
| notmyname | this is related, but separate, from the last one | 19:41 |
| clayg | getting less terrible with every commit! | 19:41 |
| acoles | clayg :) | 19:41 |
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| notmyname | I want to go over the current status (what's good, what's bad, etc) and make a set of goals for swiftclient | 19:41 |
| mattoliverau | lol, this might need a session, so there is a defined end point to its dicsussions :P | 19:41 |
| torgomatic | $ git mv swiftly python-swiftclient | 19:41 |
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| notmyname | swiftclient is often the first impression people have of swift, and frankly it's not great IMO | 19:42 |
| notmyname | I'd rank this one pretty high. what do you think? | 19:42 |
| mattoliverau | yeah, 8 or 9 | 19:42 |
| lpabon | agreed | 19:42 |
| mattoliverau | needs to be talked about | 19:42 |
| notmyname | acoles: peluse: clayg: ? | 19:43 |
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| acoles | notmyname: not great as in bugs or not great as in interface? | 19:43 |
| notmyname | acoles: interface mostly. also not great from a maintenance point of view, although that's not often seen by users | 19:44 |
| clayg | yeah i get bummed out sometimes when I find broke stuff in swiftclient; but i try to just file bugs or fix things | 19:44 |
| notmyname | acoles: where interface includes performance | 19:44 |
| clayg | I don't really understand what we can do except make it better | 19:44 |
| peluse | I don't have a huge amount of experience with it but always willing to listen/comment... | 19:44 |
| clayg | honestly my biggest rip is still pbr | 19:44 |
| * peluse thought torgotmatic solve it with his earlier git command already | 19:45 | |
| clayg | like everytime someone says "I tried to install swiftlcient and pbr" my blood boils | 19:45 |
| notmyname | ok, I'll put it down as an 8 | 19:45 |
| notmyname | next one | 19:45 |
| notmyname | swift-on-file | 19:45 |
| notmyname | this is tdasilva's stackforge project | 19:45 |
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| tdasilva | this one we were just looking for some open time in case it is available | 19:45 |
| notmyname | makes swift work on top of external durable filesystems | 19:45 |
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| mattoliverau | I'd love to hear about it | 19:46 |
| notmyname | yeah, I'd rank it lower since it's not the codebase we officially manage. but supporting it is good | 19:46 |
| tdasilva | it will be a good opportunity to meet with other folks to are interested on the project, so whatever time we can get we appreciate | 19:46 |
| notmyname | thoughts? above or below queues in swift? ;-) | 19:47 |
| peluse | above | 19:47 |
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| clayg | above - there's like a whole thing that works - imporoving what we've got is ++ on new and shiny most of the time in my book | 19:47 |
| notmyname | cool | 19:47 |
| acoles | above | 19:47 |
| * notmyname lowers priority for queues | 19:48 | |
| notmyname | let's do it :-) | 19:48 |
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| clayg | when we get swift on file on fuse on rados then we win right? | 19:48 |
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| notmyname | clayg: something like that. but only when rados is running on netapps backed by tape, right? | 19:48 |
| notmyname | next up | 19:48 |
| clayg | or s3 - we should throw aws a bone too | 19:48 |
| notmyname | encryption in swift | 19:48 |
| torgomatic | clayg: especially then if you make rados store the file in the original Swift cluster, because then you get infinite free storage | 19:48 |
| notmyname | on dis-encryption | 19:49 |
| notmyname | on-disk encryption | 19:49 |
| torgomatic | Swift -> FS -> FUSE -> RADOS -> start again | 19:49 |
| clayg | DOCKER! | 19:49 |
| notmyname | ok ok ok | 19:49 |
| torgomatic | lol | 19:49 |
| peluse | that was something I was interested in hearing about if anyone who is part of the effrt that Sam started to doc is around/wanting to discuss | 19:49 |
| clayg | oh... i meant ENCRYPTION! | 19:49 |
| clayg | let's do it! | 19:49 |
| mattoliverau | needs a session, looking at the spec coments, this needs discussion | 19:49 |
| notmyname | yeah, it's a touchy topic that a lot of people get really excited about | 19:49 |
| notmyname | I think it needs a session | 19:49 |
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| torgomatic | seems like you mention crypto and all the scope creepers come out of the woodwork | 19:50 |
| notmyname | ok, 3 more (quickly) | 19:50 |
| peluse | oooh oooh, and then we can.... | 19:50 |
| clayg | there has got to be minecraft meme there | 19:50 |
| notmyname | torgomatic: seagulls | 19:50 |
| torgomatic | you're just sitting there and you hear sssssssssssssSSSSSSSSSSSSSSo, we also need X! | 19:50 |
| torgomatic | and then your scope explodes | 19:50 |
| notmyname | :-) | 19:50 |
| notmyname | ok, migration middleware from gvernik | 19:50 |
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| * notmyname is sad it's not landed yet | 19:50 | |
| peluse | seems like we need a forcing function to get that landed | 19:51 |
| * notmyname has also not put a +2 on it and is part of the problem ;-) | 19:51 | |
| notmyname | peluse: no kidding | 19:51 |
| peluse | like lock some of us in a room in Paris until its done | 19:51 |
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| clayg | http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/55541888.jpg | 19:51 |
| zaitcev | I only looked at Gil's thing once months ago. | 19:51 |
| notmyname | could that be done during the ad-hoc time? or does it require a session? | 19:51 |
| tdasilva | zaitcev: it's nice, you should look again :-) | 19:52 |
| peluse | i do think its a must but ad-hoc is probably OK and there should a goal to get 2 cores signed up to attend and get all their questions answered so we can merge it | 19:52 |
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| peluse | and I'll volunteer to be one of them... | 19:52 |
| acoles | so, are we all planning to be at the ad-hoc? can we structure it at all? | 19:53 |
| mattoliverau | lets give it a mid range score, it might get a tail end session :) | 19:53 |
| notmyname | acoles: yeah, I think we should all be there | 19:53 |
| clayg | peluse: what's the hold up - if it's awesome lets merge it - or if it's just middleware get it out on the githubs and referenced in the associated projects till we ready to eat it - or it's baked eough for core? | 19:53 |
| notmyname | mattoliverau: yup | 19:53 |
| notmyname | two more to review in 7 minutes | 19:53 |
| peluse | clayg, only hold up for me is a piss poor excuse of not having taken the time to go through it in detail | 19:53 |
| notmyname | next | 19:53 |
| notmyname | durability simulator | 19:53 |
| kota_ | This is something we disscussed in Hackthon. | 19:54 |
| clayg | if we could only *simulate* durability then we wouldn't acctually need it! | 19:54 |
| notmyname | yeah. kota_ and cschwede are kinda leading this one | 19:54 |
| notmyname | " Discuss how swift durability should be calculated with showing some our sample tool design and how to make such tools for system architects to calculate their own durability when building Object Strage System" | 19:54 |
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| notmyname | I vote for ad-hoc | 19:54 |
| peluse | sounds good | 19:54 |
| cschwede | fine with me | 19:54 |
| notmyname | ok | 19:54 |
| acoles | peluse: clayg: i would be +2 on migration but got kinda involved so i'm hoping other cores will bless it | 19:54 |
| notmyname | kota_: are you ok with that? | 19:55 |
| kota_ | ok but I'd like to get some feedback also ops | 19:55 |
| notmyname | last up | 19:55 |
| notmyname | ops session | 19:55 |
| notmyname | in the past, we've had a session for ops feedback | 19:56 |
| notmyname | either we schedule this or we don't | 19:56 |
| notmyname | no ad-hoc for this one | 19:56 |
| notmyname | there is an "ops summit" or track at the summit | 19:56 |
| notmyname | so we could punt to there, but that will be more general for all openstack (read: nova/neutron) | 19:56 |
| mattoliverau | probably a good one to advertise, if no one turns up we could talk about app dev support for those ops :) | 19:56 |
| tdasilva | was it beneficial at the atlanta summit? | 19:56 |
| notmyname | so do we want a session for just swift feedback? | 19:56 |
| * tdasilva wasn't there, but thinks it is always a good idea to hear how people are using software in the real-world | 19:57 | |
| clayg | notmyname: seeing as how this is the first summit in euro - could turn up some interesting deployers we've not previously had a chance to talk to face to face? | 19:57 |
| clayg | I remember atlanta was not so good ops-session, hk was quite good | 19:57 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: clayg ++ to both | 19:57 |
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| notmyname | cool, let's do it | 19:58 |
| mattoliverau | lets shedule one then.. if its quiet we can always talk about a ad-hoc topic | 19:58 |
| notmyname | awesome, we got through them all | 19:58 |
| notmyname | thanks! | 19:58 |
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| mattoliverau | just in time :) | 19:58 |
| notmyname | I'll work on scheduling these and then push the schedule | 19:58 |
| notmyname | before tuesday :-) | 19:59 |
| clayg | ... and my devstack is running! | 19:59 |
| mattoliverau | Cool, thanks notmyname | 19:59 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: thanks! | 19:59 |
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| notmyname | thanks everyone for coming and participating! | 19:59 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 19:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 22 19:59:20 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:59 |
| peluse | cool, later | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-10-22-19.00.html | 19:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-10-22-19.00.txt | 19:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2014/swift.2014-10-22-19.00.log.html | 19:59 |
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| asalkeld | #startmeeting Heat | 20:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed Oct 22 20:00:13 2014 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is asalkeld. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Heat)" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'heat' | 20:00 |
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| asalkeld | #topic rollcall | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: Heat)" | 20:00 | |
| asalkeld | o/ | 20:00 |
| stevebaker | \o | 20:00 |
| shardy | o/ | 20:00 |
| BillArnold | o/ | 20:00 |
| skraynev | \o/ | 20:00 |
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| jpeeler | o/ | 20:00 |
| rpothier | o/ | 20:00 |
| tango | o/ | 20:01 |
| asalkeld | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/HeatAgenda | 20:01 |
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| pas-ha | o/ | 20:01 |
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| asalkeld | #topic review actions | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review actions (Meeting topic: Heat)" | 20:01 | |
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| asalkeld | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-10-15-12.00.html | 20:02 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: ping | 20:02 |
| zaneb | o hai | 20:02 |
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| asalkeld | so the only action was to review the autoscaling restructure | 20:02 |
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| asalkeld | hopefully people did that | 20:03 |
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| zaneb | I think I did that | 20:03 |
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| asalkeld | #topic add topics | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "add topics (Meeting topic: Heat)" | 20:03 | |
| tspatzier | hi all, sorry I'm late | 20:03 |
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| asalkeld | hi tspatzier | 20:03 |
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| * ryansb missed rollcall too | 20:04 | |
| asalkeld | now we see you ryansb | 20:04 |
| asalkeld | I'll move along | 20:04 |
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| asalkeld | #topic summit sessions | 20:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "summit sessions (Meeting topic: Heat)" | 20:04 | |
| asalkeld | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-heat-summit-topics | 20:05 |
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| asalkeld | the idea is to vote on them | 20:05 |
| skraynev | asalkeld: I try to do it :) | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | unless people think we need to merge/break them up | 20:05 |
| asalkeld | so let's do "upgrades" | 20:06 |
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| asalkeld | (first topic) | 20:06 |
| asalkeld | thanks skraynev | 20:06 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: can you clarify #3? "API" can mean a lot of things | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | python api | 20:07 |
| zaneb | plugin API? | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | what does resourcev2.py | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | look like | 20:07 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, yea | 20:07 |
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| shardy | Originally in the convergence specs we agreed we weren't going to break the existing plugin interface, I guess that is no longer the case? | 20:08 |
| shardy | maybe I missed that conclusion from the meetup | 20:08 |
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| asalkeld | shardy, ok - i just don't see how | 20:09 |
| therve | shardy, The interface is somewhat implicit given the Resource inheritance | 20:09 |
| therve | eg can we keep self.stack? | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | therve, we need to write some code I think to figure this out | 20:09 |
| asalkeld | the bigger issue is do we allocate "convergence" some time | 20:10 |
| therve | Probably | 20:10 |
| shardy | asalkeld: Ok, cool, I guess I'm just wary of using a whole session to bikeshed on interfaces without that PoC code | 20:10 |
| therve | shardy, +1 | 20:10 |
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| asalkeld | do we need sessions for convergence or punt to friday | 20:10 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I'm writing some code at the moment | 20:10 |
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| asalkeld | zaneb, nice | 20:10 |
| shardy | but if it has to change, then I guess it's something important to discuss | 20:10 |
| zaneb | tentative conclusion: new resource plugin API could be stage 2 | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, feel free to totally propose new sessions | 20:10 |
| asalkeld | (but fast) | 20:11 |
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| therve | shardy, I think the hypothesis at the meetup was "try to keep compatibility, but makes optional stuff slow if needed" | 20:12 |
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| stevebaker | should we have one convergence session, then continue on Friday? | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, i think we should have one or two even | 20:13 |
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| stevebaker | then structure that one session so that it is as constructive as possible | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | just to "warm" up | 20:13 |
| stevebaker | or 2, sure | 20:13 |
| shardy | therve: Ok, +1 on that | 20:13 |
| asalkeld | i see zaneb is proposing now:( - naughty | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | really late zaneb | 20:14 |
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| zaneb | <asalkeld> zaneb, feel free to totally propose new sessions | 20:14 |
| shardy | if we have to have a degraded performance compatibility shim, that's fine, it's just that I know there are folks with out of tree stuff who won't be happy if we break the world for them ;) | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, i saw autoscaling | 20:14 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: this is based on stuff I have learned while prototyping this week | 20:14 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:15 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, can you push your poc somewhere? | 20:15 |
| zaneb | i.e. stage 1 of convergence can probably enable autoscaling to do the stuff RAX wants in Juno | 20:15 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: yes, will do | 20:15 |
| BillArnold | zaneb that will include a use case for rapid autoscaling updates? | 20:16 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: it will be here: https://github.com/zaneb/heat-convergence-prototype (close to pushing, but keep finding new things to try out ;) | 20:16 |
| zaneb | BillArnold: yes, that's what I mean | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | i can just make "convergence #1" and "convergence #2" topics | 20:16 |
| asalkeld | put what we want there | 20:17 |
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| asalkeld | another question: since we have an audience do we want to focus more on the usablity stuff? | 20:18 |
| asalkeld | (maybe 2 sessions) | 20:18 |
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| shardy | asalkeld: IMO one session and spill over into friday | 20:19 |
| asalkeld | ok | 20:19 |
| stevebaker | yeah | 20:19 |
| skraynev | it dependences on audience | 20:19 |
| shardy | It's super important, but then so is most of the other stuff | 20:19 |
| skraynev | one session may be without any feedback | 20:19 |
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| stevebaker | the formal session to get all the issues on the table, and Friday to cover planning to fix them | 20:20 |
| skraynev | possibly solution with Friday will be better | 20:20 |
| zaneb | shardy: we should optimise the scheduled sessions for users and other projects to participate | 20:20 |
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| therve | Wait since when we fix issues in sessions </joke> | 20:20 |
| skraynev | +1 stevebaker | 20:20 |
| stevebaker | therve: I said _plan_ to fix them. We can then ignore the plan ;) | 20:21 |
| asalkeld | lol | 20:21 |
| skraynev | therve: 1 session to implement all what we want, 2 - to understand what we did, two other to fix it all ;) | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | skraynev, do you want to explain the use case for partial stack | 20:22 |
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| stevebaker | skraynev: that sounds like a topic for the beer track | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | har | 20:22 |
| skraynev | I have not nothing to add for use cases in etherpad | 20:22 |
| asalkeld | "red, red wine" | 20:23 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Agreed, I was just questioning if two sessions on one topic (other than convergence) was justified | 20:23 |
| skraynev | asalkeld: oh. I agree with wine | 20:23 |
| stevebaker | shardy: although usability is an enourmous topic | 20:23 |
| skraynev | stevebaker: why not? :) I can combine these things. beer + use case :) | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | also should we arrange the chairs in a proper circle and ban the microphone? | 20:24 |
| shardy | stevebaker: Yeah, true | 20:24 |
| zaneb | shardy: we actually have a lot of time though. we're one of the few projects not to lose any sessions, and we gain a whole day of meetup | 20:24 |
| stevebaker | the mic is good for comedy, but it does get in the way a bit | 20:24 |
| ryansb | stevebaker: the plus side of a mic is it helps remind people not to talk over each other. | 20:25 |
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| zaneb | I still don't know how to feel about the mics :/ | 20:25 |
| stevebaker | ryansb: BLAH BLAH BLAH did you say something? | 20:25 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Sure, I just saw 11 proposals and 5 slots available ;) | 20:25 |
| skraynev | stevebaker :) | 20:26 |
| skraynev | good example | 20:26 |
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| ryansb | stevebaker: nope, must've been the wind. | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | i am going to kill the convergance #2 and overwrite with zanes | 20:26 |
| zaneb | shardy: I thought we had 7 or 8? | 20:26 |
| skraynev | explain a lot of ... | 20:26 |
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| shardy | zaneb: doh! I was only looking at Wednesday | 20:26 |
| shardy | I assumed it was all on one day like last time | 20:26 |
| shardy | cool :) | 20:26 |
| asalkeld | can you all recheck you votes for convergence #2 | 20:27 |
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| skraynev | asalkeld: probably email with end list of chosen sessions will be nice :) | 20:28 |
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| asalkeld | convergence #3 gone | 20:28 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: that's not really convergence imho. it's something that we've been planning for ever that will be unblocked by convergence | 20:28 |
| zaneb | (autoscaling, that is) | 20:28 |
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| asalkeld | mmm | 20:28 |
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| asalkeld | zaneb, add some details please | 20:29 |
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| asalkeld | ok got 5 in the boat | 20:32 |
| stevebaker | there are a lot of drugs being consumed in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/heat-useablity-improvements | 20:33 |
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| asalkeld | *what* | 20:33 |
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| asalkeld | have things gone to the weeks | 20:33 |
| asalkeld | have things gone to the weeds | 20:33 |
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| stevebaker | its fine, just a lot of people desribing their problems by suggesting solutions | 20:34 |
| asalkeld | ok we are done to the last session | 20:34 |
| shardy | stevebaker: It is a bit of a soup of ideas, but it's a starting point, at least | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | maybe zaqar and spillover (if any) from usablity | 20:35 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: we could make that a floating session for now? | 20:35 |
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| asalkeld | what's that mean | 20:35 |
| asalkeld | "floating" | 20:35 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, ^ | 20:35 |
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| stevebaker | decide on the day, for any other session that really needs more attention. We've done it at least once before | 20:36 |
| stevebaker | although that is Friday | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | ok, maybe the last one | 20:36 |
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| asalkeld | good idea stevebaker | 20:36 |
| asalkeld | I'll do that | 20:36 |
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| asalkeld | and maybe cover some of these others | 20:37 |
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| zaneb | asalkeld: I don't see any convergence sessions on the list? | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | that was your one:-O | 20:37 |
| asalkeld | i guess it's gone, I'll reshuffle | 20:38 |
| zaneb | mine was autoscaling | 20:38 |
| stevebaker | oh, we need to discuss documentation at some point. We could do it during usability but then it really would need 2 sessions | 20:38 |
| zaneb | if I have to choose I will take convergence over autoscaling | 20:38 |
| skraynev | shardy: I added example for partially successfully creation :) | 20:38 |
| shardy | I'm confused, is "Autoscaling API" the convergence session now? | 20:38 |
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| shardy | That seems to me like a separate, but related, topic | 20:38 |
| zaneb | shardy: I think asalkeld was thinking that, but it shouldn't be | 20:38 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, there was my one with the restarting actions | 20:38 |
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| shardy | Getting clarity on the distributed worker/observer model seems a precursor to me | 20:39 |
| shardy | zaneb: Ok, as long as we aren't going to burn too much time on the "API" aspects vs the the underlying architecture | 20:40 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: tbh I'd be fine with having one big "convergence" bucket and we fill in what we want to put in it later | 20:40 |
| asalkeld | ok, i am fine with that too | 20:40 |
| zaneb | shardy: totally agree, the actual ReST API is the least interesting part | 20:40 |
| stevebaker | zaneb: as long as it gets structured before the session, otherwise we might just ramble | 20:40 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: +1 | 20:41 |
| shardy | Seems like we have two parts - convergence #1 is distributed workers and polling (make heat work at scale), #2 is continuous convergence autoscaling/healing etc | 20:41 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: was it you who created "convergence #1 - All about the graph"? | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | yeah, | 20:41 |
| zaneb | ok | 20:41 |
| asalkeld | you were suposed to fill that out | 20:41 |
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| * zaneb can come prepared to talk about that | 20:42 | |
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| shardy | we've had folks constantly talking about #2 lately, but we've not even started #1, so I'd rather start there | 20:42 |
| zaneb | shardy: I'm coming to the opinion that #1 is distributed workers and autohealing and #2 is polling | 20:42 |
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| zaneb | or maybe #2 is autohealing and #3 is polling | 20:43 |
| zaneb | polling is last | 20:43 |
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| stevebaker | zaneb: by polling do you mean the observer service? | 20:43 |
| zaneb | I will email the list about it this week | 20:43 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: yes | 20:43 |
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| shardy | zaneb: Ok, it will be great to see/hear what you've been looking at | 20:44 |
| stevebaker | I have been wondering why observer was first, apart from being the "easy" bit | 20:44 |
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| * zaneb realises that may not have been what shardy meant | 20:44 | |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: it's not the easy bit at all, because it requires new resource plugins | 20:44 |
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| stevebaker | and the only benefit is offloading some work to another worker | 20:45 |
| asalkeld | ok, we have 7 - no spare one | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | job done | 20:46 |
| asalkeld | :-) | 20:46 |
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| zaneb | stevebaker: the biggest benefit is that the system becomes much more robust against a worker dying | 20:46 |
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| asalkeld | zaneb, i want to see the taking over of jobs tho' | 20:47 |
| * asalkeld hopeful this can be done | 20:47 | |
| asalkeld | is everyone happy with what has been chosen? | 20:48 |
| asalkeld | or is there anything that should be swapped around | 20:48 |
| zaneb | tbh I am -1 on nova-network stuff | 20:48 |
| zaneb | by all means work on it | 20:48 |
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| stevebaker | Improve non-neutron (nova-network) resources <- title says nova-network, but all the items are about AWS resources | 20:49 |
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| zaneb | but I'm not really that interested in a summit session, because it's going away very soon | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, huh? | 20:49 |
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| stevebaker | its always 6 months away from going away | 20:49 |
| asalkeld | it's about heat, not that it might go away | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | who cares | 20:50 |
| asalkeld | if it "goes away", do you care about discussing heat | 20:50 |
| pas-ha | stevebaker, probably we should retitle it to Nova-network integration | 20:50 |
| stevebaker | pas-ha: it should be retitled AWS resource improvements, looking at the items | 20:51 |
| stevebaker | pas-ha: I think the only nova-network resource we're missing is OS::Nova::SecurityGroup | 20:51 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, it's about aws as that is the only why you can use non-nova | 20:52 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, loadbalancer | 20:52 |
| pas-ha | Nova::Network? Nova::CloudPipe? | 20:52 |
| zaneb | asalkeld: I care about stuff that will affect us into the future. stuff that I never have to see again after 1 year... implement anything you like | 20:52 |
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| zaneb | there's a natural limit to how much damage can be done ;) | 20:53 |
| pas-ha | zaneb, I honestly doubt nova-network would be over that soon :/ | 20:53 |
| asalkeld | zaneb, there is a bigger question | 20:53 |
| stevebaker | pas-ha: sure, we need OS::Nova::AllTheThings. I'm not sure a session is needed for that though, just blueprints and code | 20:53 |
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| asalkeld | will heat move to a differernt release schedule and have to deal with older clounds | 20:54 |
| zaneb | stevebaker: +1 | 20:54 |
| shardy | pas-ha: I guess the question is, do we need a summit session, or is it some work which can just be done | 20:54 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, what would you swap in? | 20:54 |
| asalkeld | what's the competitor? | 20:54 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: usability 2? | 20:54 |
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| pas-ha | I might somewhat agree, we can discuss it in less formal setting | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | ok, let me think about that | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | there is a *lot* in that usablity etherpad | 20:55 |
| stevebaker | pas-ha: don't get me wrong, I'd really like these resources and would be happy to discuss | 20:55 |
| asalkeld | pas-ha, are there any "contentious" issues you need to talk about? | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | non-obvious stuff | 20:56 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: usability 1 could all be about template format, usability 2 could be all about northbound and southbound APIs, and the things that consume them (heatclient, software config hooks) | 20:56 |
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| asalkeld | pas-ha or this more about raise awareness of what you want to do | 20:56 |
| asalkeld | mmm, time running out | 20:57 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: and usability one could also be about hot-guide, because a lot of the improvements is just needing to document how to do the things | 20:57 |
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| asalkeld | stevebaker, pas-ha we can move to #heat | 20:57 |
| pas-ha | not anything that important, it's just about what I was mainly stumbling recently | 20:57 |
| ryansb | (3 minute warning) | 20:57 |
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| stevebaker | asalkeld: then we could maybe get some docs folk into that session | 20:57 |
| asalkeld | doesn't have to be done now | 20:57 |
| pas-ha | and to raise awareness, sure | 20:57 |
| asalkeld | ok stevebaker | 20:57 |
| asalkeld | i'll look at reworking that | 20:57 |
| stevebaker | asalkeld: cool, thanks | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | stevebaker, you want to make a new session | 20:58 |
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| stevebaker | ok | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | you do one, i can do the other | 20:58 |
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| pas-ha | so I would choose more usability over nova-network topic | 20:58 |
| skraynev | asalkeld: infinite number of sessions... | 20:58 |
| pas-ha | if that's the choice | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | thanks pas-ha | 20:58 |
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| asalkeld | maybe we can spend a bit of time on friday on it | 20:59 |
| pas-ha | that would be neat :) | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | that's all folks | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | running out of time | 20:59 |
| asalkeld | super productive, thanks | 20:59 |
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| asalkeld | #endmeeting | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed Oct 22 20:59:53 2014 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-10-22-20.00.html | 20:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-10-22-20.00.txt | 20:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/heat/2014/heat.2014-10-22-20.00.log.html | 20:59 |
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