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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 08:00:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:00 |
| anteaya | raise your hand if you are here for the third-party meeting | 08:00 |
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| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 08:58:17 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-17-08.00.html | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-17-08.00.txt | 08:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-03-17-08.00.log.html | 08:58 |
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| anteaya | #startmeeting nova-net-to-neutron-migration | 09:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 09:00:03 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova-net-to-neutron-migration)" | 09:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_net_to_neutron_migration' | 09:00 |
| anteaya | hello | 09:00 |
| obondarev | hi | 09:00 |
| anteaya | how are you today? | 09:00 |
| obondarev | great, thank you | 09:00 |
| mikal | Hi | 09:00 |
| anteaya | hi | 09:00 |
| anteaya | how are you this evening? | 09:00 |
| anteaya | gus: ping | 09:00 |
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| mikal | I am tired to be honest, its been a hard couple of days | 09:00 |
| mikal | But such is life | 09:00 |
| anteaya | thanks for being honest | 09:01 |
| anteaya | and yes I hear that | 09:01 |
| anteaya | so here is our agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Nova-nettoNeutronMigration | 09:01 |
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| anteaya | so to speed things along, lets just address what, if anything, is new | 09:01 |
| anteaya | obondarev: anything new? | 09:01 |
| obondarev | no updates from my side this week.. | 09:01 |
| anteaya | okay none from mine | 09:01 |
| obondarev | seems everybody is busy with end of cycle stuff | 09:01 |
| mikal | Yeah, its hard to get non-release stuff done at the moment | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: yes, it is a hard time of the cycle for work like this | 09:02 |
| anteaya | okay | 09:02 |
| obondarev | and I'm afraid we can't move forward without enough feedback | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: that is true | 09:02 |
| obondarev | anteaya: thank you for bringing attention to nova-net proxy patch during nova team meeting | 09:02 |
| anteaya | also I am concerned about sdague's comment in his email coming form the ops meetup | 09:02 |
| anteaya | obondarev: thanks, I tried | 09:02 |
| obondarev | anteaya: yep, mee too | 09:03 |
| anteaya | but understandably noone has time | 09:03 |
| anteaya | I talked to mestery today and he talked to sean last week, hopefully they will post something to the mailin glist this week | 09:03 |
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| anteaya | but since there is nothing yet I figured we should just continue | 09:04 |
| obondarev | generally ops are not sure about the parity, right? | 09:04 |
| anteaya | as party of the problem is stopping and starting | 09:04 |
| mikal | No, I think its that some ops have no desire to move, ever | 09:04 |
| anteaya | not exactly sure | 09:04 |
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| anteaya | yeah, more that | 09:04 |
| anteaya | so since we wont' decide that tonight | 09:04 |
| mikal | We either need to convince them to move, or somehow meet their desire to not move | 09:04 |
| anteaya | and mikal needsd his sleep and so do I | 09:04 |
| mikal | Which is ... unexpected | 09:04 |
| anteaya | yes | 09:04 |
| mikal | Yeah, I think a nova summit session is a good idea here | 09:05 |
| anteaya | anything we can accomplish in this meeting, do you think | 09:05 |
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| mikal | I don't think we'll solve this in an IRC meeting with three people | 09:05 |
| anteaya | mikal: as long as you lead it, I'm for that | 09:05 |
| anteaya | mikal: agreed | 09:05 |
| mikal | I would fall on that grenade | 09:05 |
| anteaya | obondarev: any thoughts before we call it a wrap | 09:05 |
| anteaya | mikal: its all yours | 09:05 |
| obondarev | anteaya: nope | 09:05 |
| mikal | Heh | 09:05 |
| anteaya | okay | 09:05 |
| anteaya | thanks for showing up | 09:05 |
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| anteaya | enjoy the rest of the day/evening | 09:06 |
| obondarev | thanks | 09:06 |
| anteaya | talk to you anon | 09:06 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 09:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 09:06 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 09:06:09 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 09:06 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-17-09.00.html | 09:06 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-17-09.00.txt | 09:06 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_net_to_neutron_migration/2015/nova_net_to_neutron_migration.2015-03-17-09.00.log.html | 09:06 |
| mikal | anteaya: you should go back to bed | 09:06 |
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| anteaya | mikal: on my way | 09:06 |
| anteaya | :) | 09:06 |
| mikal | anteaya: sleep well | 09:06 |
| anteaya | thanks you too | 09:06 |
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| lxsli | o/ | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | #startmeeting gantt | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 15:00:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is n0ano. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'gantt' | 15:00 |
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| n0ano | anyone here to talk about the scheduler (except lxsli who I know is here :-) | 15:00 |
| edleafe | o/ | 15:01 |
| PaulMurray | o/ | 15:01 |
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| alex_xu | o/ | 15:01 |
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| lxsli | o/\o ! | 15:02 |
| n0ano | lxsli, I don't want to know what that is :-) | 15:02 |
| n0ano | anyway, let's get started... | 15:02 |
| lxsli | highfive :) | 15:02 |
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| n0ano | I think we can keep it short today, just want to know if there are any patch isses that need to be dealt with so... | 15:03 |
| n0ano | #topic patch status | 15:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "patch status (Meeting topic: gantt)" | 15:03 | |
| lxsli | still need to clone jay | 15:03 |
| n0ano | Any outstanding issues/reviews/roadblocks we can help with? | 15:03 |
| edleafe | the first patch in my series merged friday | 15:03 |
| n0ano | edleafe, I saw that, congrats! | 15:03 |
| edleafe | got a lot of feedback from dansmith and jaypipes on patch #2 | 15:03 |
| edleafe | changes have been pushed, and am waiting for follow-up reviews | 15:04 |
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| edleafe | #2 was the biggest change in terms of impact to the overall system | 15:04 |
| n0ano | cool, so appropriate progress, that's all we can as for | 15:04 |
| edleafe | so once that gets through, the rest shouldn't be as contentious | 15:04 |
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| n0ano | I have to admit, I'm a little conerned about the lack of strikeouts in the tracking page but last minutes pushes are normal | 15:04 |
| edleafe | but to get them all in 2 days? Not very confident | 15:05 |
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| PaulMurray | edleafe, thanks for reviewing my patches, what happened to the rest of you ??? | 15:05 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, point taken, I want to do reviews today, hope to get to it | 15:06 |
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| PaulMurray | n0ano, thanks | 15:06 |
| PaulMurray | edleafe, what is the patch you have waiting? | 15:06 |
| n0ano | I've had machine issues (I don't want to talk about it :-( | 15:07 |
| bauzas | \o | 15:07 |
| edleafe | PaulMurray: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/160511/ | 15:07 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, we can sell you another one :) | 15:07 |
| * bauzas waves late (again...) | 15:07 | |
| n0ano | PaulMurray, I work for Intel, the cobbler's kids go barefoot | 15:07 |
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| edleafe | PaulMurray: but it's really a jaypipes bottleneck issue right now | 15:07 |
| PaulMurray | n0ano, that's why we're offering | 15:08 |
| n0ano | bauzas, welcome, just looking for any patch issues | 15:08 |
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| n0ano | PaulMurray, tnx, I'm all better now | 15:08 |
| bauzas | edleafe: I'm thinking that you should ask for an exception | 15:08 |
| bauzas | FFE | 15:08 |
| * lxsli submits PaulMurray for additional ethics training | 15:08 | |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I think we need to merge each patch one by one | 15:09 |
| edleafe | bauzas: that may be necessary; depends on how close the series is to getting through | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: I'll ask for the FFE process by next Nova meeting | 15:09 |
| n0ano | should we ask for the exception now and avoid the rush | 15:09 |
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| edleafe | n0ano: feels premature | 15:09 |
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| bauzas | n0ano: FFEs are only for priorities, so it should not be a rush | 15:09 |
| bauzas | edleafe: that said, I think that bumping RPC version would be -1 for a FFE | 15:10 |
| bauzas | edleafe: because that's something huge | 15:10 |
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| edleafe | bauzas: that's one reason I put that patch first initially | 15:11 |
| bauzas | edleafe: yeah but I said, I don't want to have half methods | 15:11 |
| edleafe | bauzas: it was a single patch | 15:11 |
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| edleafe | splitting it into two means one has to go first :) | 15:12 |
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| bauzas | edleafe: so let's cross fingers and see what can be merged before Thursday but that sounds really risky | 15:12 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, could you take a look at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/148904/ - hans asked a question about service + compute_node | 15:12 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: sure it's in my pipe | 15:12 |
| PaulMurray | bauzas, would like to get it sorted today | 15:13 |
| bauzas | PaulMurray: okay, let's do this just after the meeting | 15:13 |
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| PaulMurray | bauzas, k | 15:13 |
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| n0ano | OK, anything else specific or should we all go back and review code? | 15:14 |
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| edleafe | code! | 15:15 |
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| n0ano | ok, then the action is... | 15:15 |
| n0ano | #action review the patches on https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/kilo-nova-priorities-tracking | 15:15 |
| bauzas | seriously, reviewing ? :) | 15:16 |
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| n0ano | and we'll talk again next week | 15:16 |
| alex_xu | code, review, adverties to core what can be review~ | 15:16 |
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| n0ano | tnx everyone, we know what to do | 15:16 |
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| n0ano | #endmeeting | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 15:16:58 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:17 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-17-15.00.html | 15:17 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-17-15.00.txt | 15:17 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/gantt/2015/gantt.2015-03-17-15.00.log.html | 15:17 |
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| primeministerp | #startmeeting hyper-v | 16:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 16:01:58 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is primeministerp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'hyper_v' | 16:02 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: ping | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | o/ | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | hey there | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | been a while | 16:02 |
| primeministerp | #topic general updates | 16:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "general updates (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:02 | |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: where do we stand on the upstream pipeline? | 16:02 |
| alexpilotti | so we have quite some stuff | 16:03 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: care to run through? | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | of course | 16:03 |
| alexpilotti | was collecting the BPs | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | the bad news is that Nova cut almost all low priority BP from kilo | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | and as usual a lot of driver stuff got in the list, including hyper-v | 16:04 |
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| alexpilotti | the good news, is that the only non-driver BP that we had got approved for K3 and merged | 16:05 |
| alexpilotti | getting the link | 16:05 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/keypair-x509-certificates | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | we are still waiting for a Nova client patch to merge, but all the big parts merged | 16:06 |
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| alexpilotti | all other BPs that got delayed are driver specific, so it’s not that critical to have them outside of Nova | 16:07 |
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| alexpilotti | and anyway they’ll get resumed for Liberty as usual | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | here’s the rundown | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-rescue | 16:08 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: thx | 16:08 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyperv-serial-ports | 16:09 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-remotefx | 16:09 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-ovs-vif | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/nova/+spec/hyper-v-vnic-hot-plug | 16:10 |
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| alexpilotti | this is Nova only. All fully implemented BPs (since a while) | 16:10 |
| alexpilotti | Neutron we have 1 BP still approved, but considering that we are 2 days off code freeze, it’ll be most probably postponed: | 16:11 |
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| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/neutron/+spec/hyper-v-ovs-agent | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | Cinder: | 16:11 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://blueprints.launchpad.net/cinder/+spec/image-caching-support | 16:12 |
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| alexpilotti | Neutron, we also have the most important patch pending, due to lack of votes from the CI, hopefully today the CI will resume: | 16:13 |
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| primeministerp | alexpilotti: yes I hope we'll be up and voting today as well | 16:13 |
| alexpilotti | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/153259/ | 16:14 |
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| alexpilotti | the last one is the neutron agent decomposition | 16:14 |
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| alexpilotti | hopefully similar plans are going to happen for Cinder and Nova | 16:15 |
| primeministerp | ok | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | we’ll add more on this during the next meetings | 16:15 |
| alexpilotti | we have also a big batch of new blueprints | 16:15 |
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| alexpilotti | for Nova, Cinder, Manila and Trove | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | Manila in particualr we have SMB3 support | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | Trove we have SQL Server support | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | Cinder we have QoS for storage | 16:16 |
| alexpilotti | and Nova / neutron we have QoS for networking | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | guess our timing on getting things running again is good | 16:16 |
| primeministerp | ;) | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | all this new stuff is meant for the Liberty timeframe | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | on the bugs side, the driver is very stable | 16:17 |
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| alexpilotti | so we have very few activities there | 16:17 |
| primeministerp | that's good | 16:17 |
| alexpilotti | ok, that was the quick rundown :-) | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | thx | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | #topic CI status | 16:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "CI status (Meeting topic: hyper-v)" | 16:18 | |
| primeministerp | so we've been down for some time | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | we've basically replaced the entire physical network | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | and should as a result experience much better stability out of the network going foward | 16:18 |
| primeministerp | additionally this means we'll be able to over the course of the coming weeks increase capicity | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | after we get everything stablized of course | 16:19 |
| primeministerp | hopefully we'll be back to our running/responding state today | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | some details from a network upgrade perspective | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | we've increased the ammount of network devices in the cambridge ci 5x | 16:20 |
| primeministerp | we are also now capible of isolating all the ci dataplane traffic | 16:21 |
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| primeministerp | the backplanes for the operational network and dataplane networks now flow over 10g between both sites | 16:21 |
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| primeministerp | we've also increased port density to each rack 3x | 16:22 |
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| primeministerp | that's about what i have for now | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: anything else to add | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | primeministerp: I’m good for this round! | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | alexpilotti: if not i'm ending the meeting | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | great | 16:23 |
| alexpilotti | cool tx! | 16:23 |
| primeministerp | #endmeeting | 16:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:23 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 16:23:45 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:23 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-03-17-16.01.html | 16:23 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-03-17-16.01.txt | 16:23 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/hyper_v/2015/hyper_v.2015-03-17-16.01.log.html | 16:23 |
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| boris-42 | hi hi | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | #startmeeting | 17:08 |
| openstack | boris-42: Error: A meeting name is required, e.g., '#startmeeting Marketing Committee' | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | #startmeeting Rally | 17:08 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 17:08:10 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is boris-42. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:08 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:08 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'rally' | 17:08 |
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| oanufriev | hallloooooo | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | hi | 17:08 |
| boris-42 | hallooo | 17:08 |
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| andreykurilin | salut | 17:08 |
| amaretskiy | s/hi/halloooo/ | 17:08 |
| rvasilets | hi | 17:08 |
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| meteorfox | boris-42: hi | 17:08 |
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| andreykurilin | boris-42: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fe2s32YqGpU | 17:09 |
| boris-42 | andreykurilin: ^ LOL | 17:10 |
| oanufriev | wassssaaaaaaaaaaaap& | 17:10 |
| oanufriev | ? | 17:10 |
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| boris-42 | wasssaaaappppp | 17:10 |
| dpaterson | o/ | 17:10 |
| boris-42 | dprince: tosky hi there | 17:11 |
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| tosky | (hi, lurking around) | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | hehe=) | 17:11 |
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| boris-42 | So like usually short updates | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | #Updates | 17:12 |
| boris-42 | #topic Updates | 17:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Updates (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:12 | |
| boris-42 | Okay guys we made new release 0.0.2 | 17:12 |
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| boris-42 | who doesn't know what the hell take a look at http://boris-42.me/rally-v0-0-2-whats-new/ | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | Our goal is to start doing releases each 2 weeks | 17:13 |
| boris-42 | this will allow to ship to users new features/plugins rapidly | 17:13 |
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| boris-42 | which I think is crucial | 17:14 |
| dpaterson | +1 | 17:14 |
| boris-42 | As well the another thing regarding to releases is to start using http://semver.org/ | 17:15 |
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| boris-42 | for now 0.y.x -> 0.y.x+1 means fully backward compable | 17:15 |
| boris-42 | 0.y.x -> 0.y+1.0 means something changed (like depracated plugins / API were removed) | 17:16 |
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| e0ne | hi | 17:16 |
| boris-42 | e0ne: hi there | 17:16 |
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| boris-42 | when we cut 1.0.0 release we will use semver fully | 17:17 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: sounds reasonable | 17:17 |
| e0ne | boris-42: +1 | 17:18 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: semver is a guideline, not an automatic tool, right? | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: yep | 17:18 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: ok. +1 | 17:18 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: so I hope I won't make any mistakes as release manager=) | 17:18 |
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| boris-42 | So as well we have some changes in read the docs | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | we have new menu https://rally.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | Release Notes | 17:19 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: so long as it's you and not me ... :) | 17:19 |
| boris-42 | so it will be some kind of hisotry | 17:19 |
| meteorfox | cool | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | So I would like to discuss a bit commit message formats | 17:20 |
| boris-42 | #topic Commit message format | 17:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Commit message format (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:20 | |
| boris-42 | During the process of making release notes I understand that it's terrible hard task | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | 1) Title of commit messages sometimes are absolutelly unclear | 17:21 |
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| boris-42 | 2) Commit message has only titile | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | and so on | 17:21 |
| boris-42 | I believe that we need to do cleanup this stuff | 17:22 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: ^ that's reviewer/core resp to make sure commit is good | 17:22 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: I know I'm guilty of that :P | 17:22 |
| tosky | shouldn't the format of commit message addressed during reviews (I mean, shouldn't the review receive -1 if the message is unclear)? | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: tosky I dislike a bit this idea of manual work | 17:22 |
| boris-42 | people gets angry if it is not CI | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:23 |
| tosky | boris-42: but that's about the semantic, a human is still needed | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | so I would like to have checks for commit message | 17:23 |
| tosky | unless you have skynet in your computer | 17:23 |
| boris-42 | tosky: I have=) | 17:23 |
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| * tosky checks for the emergency exits | 17:23 | |
| boris-42 | so | 17:23 |
| * boris-42 tosky: it won't help | 17:24 | |
| boris-42 | So let's just start from small steps | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | First of all is to add tags to commit message | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | like | 17:24 |
| boris-42 | [nova] Add servers benchmark context | 17:24 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: -1 | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: why so? | 17:25 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: I suggested this exact thing for tempest early on | 17:25 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: and? | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: why -1 then?) | 17:25 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: commit subject should be less than 50 char | 17:25 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: I would prefer to have it 72 but with tag | 17:26 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: and adding tags would get in the way | 17:26 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: still | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: it will be better then tag | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: one tag is not big deal | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: [nova] == 6 chars, [ceilometer] <<- 12 | 17:26 |
| amaretskiy | boris-42 maybe put commit message notation into doc/specs/ ? | 17:26 |
| boris-42 | it's not so big? | 17:26 |
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| boris-42 | amaretskiy: you mean propose spec instead of dicussing it on Meeting? | 17:27 |
| amaretskiy | no | 17:27 |
| amaretskiy | I propose to discuss and then write a spec | 17:27 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: I'm with yfried_ , and I liked his initial suggestion of keeping it simple, and reviewers doing commit reviews | 17:27 |
| amaretskiy | so anyone can be pointed | 17:27 |
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| meteorfox | commit message* | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | meteorfox: yep message | 17:28 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: okay I can do that | 17:28 |
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| boris-42 | But the idea is to have strict format and test that automatically checks it | 17:28 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: [nova][neutron].. gets out of hand | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: why do you need [nova] [neutron] together? | 17:29 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: if I write a patch for network wrapper | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: it will be [network] | 17:29 |
| andreykurilin | :) | 17:29 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: the idea is to have 1 tag | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | okay let me make spec | 17:30 |
| andreykurilin | tags should not be strict | 17:30 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: andreykurilin: spec | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | amaretskiy: yep but it will be nice to have them if they touch specific places | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | so commit message body should be required | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | if there is word "fix" it should point to bug | 17:30 |
| boris-42 | and so on and so on | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | we can check a lot of | 17:31 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2013-December/023032.html | 17:31 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: okay but commit message is not only about tags | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | it's just one thing | 17:32 |
| oanufriev | Let the short message contain only tags of [subsystem][action]... and long description contain long description ) | 17:32 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: I understand. but let's cover that in spec | 17:32 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: sure | 17:32 |
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| boris-42 | okay | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | next topics | 17:33 |
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| boris-42 | #topic Avarage Reviewer CI | 17:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Avarage Reviewer CI (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:33 | |
| boris-42 | I would like to do make a bot | 17:33 |
| boris-42 | that will put avarage reviewer opinion as comment to patch | 17:34 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: could you please explain? | 17:34 |
| tosky | and the goal is? | 17:34 |
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| boris-42 | https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/uT3kra2F | 17:34 |
| boris-42 | tosky: yfried_ the goal is next | 17:34 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: not trying to be that guy, but I assume you meant average, not avarage? | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | There are bunch of patches that contains > 700-800 LOC | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | avarage* | 17:35 |
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| boris-42 | average | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | it just explains feeling of core reviewer when he see patch | 17:35 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: ok, got it | 17:35 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: so you want to -1 all patches above 800 LOC? | 17:35 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: no I don't want to -1 | 17:36 |
| tosky | is it kind of soft-gate check? | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | but put comment in review | 17:36 |
| dpaterson | LOC? | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | from Average Code Reviewer | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | dpaterson: lines of code | 17:36 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: Lines Of Code | 17:36 |
| dpaterson | tx | 17:36 |
| boris-42 | as well we can check is new code cover by unit tests | 17:36 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: well I agree, but if it's not -1, it would be ignored | 17:36 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: so we can make some soft/hard rules | 17:37 |
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| boris-42 | so if evertyhing is nice +1 | 17:37 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: like most ppl always do recheck 3-10 times before they bother to see why tempest failed their patch | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | if there are some bad stuff like 600 LOC there will be just comment | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | if things are terrible (code not covered by unit test) it will be -1 | 17:37 |
| boris-42 | or there 2000 LOC | 17:38 |
| boris-42 | so 3 possible marks +1/0/-1 | 17:38 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: the basic idea seems reasonable | 17:38 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: so it's quite simple to implement | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: and we can store rules in rally_repo for example | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | so it will be simple to add/remove/refactor them | 17:39 |
| boris-42 | I mean we will make separated project | 17:40 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: but I think, like your previous topic, we should publish more strict review guidelines before we let the bot do this stuff | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | that is easy plugable | 17:40 |
| meteorfox | yfried_: +1 | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: I think we can do this in parallel=) | 17:40 |
| dpaterson | the bot would be useful for any project, it will go upstream somewhere? | 17:40 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: agreed | 17:40 |
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| boris-42 | dpaterson: yep on stackforge | 17:40 |
| boris-42 | dpaterson: but it will be easy plugable like Rally | 17:40 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: I mean that we should feel that it's ok to "shoot down" patches for being too long or covering too many things at once and point to a specific line in "rally guidelines" | 17:41 |
| dpaterson | boris-42: One doesn't already exist? Seems like a common usecase | 17:41 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: if you follow the unwritten guidelines - the bot's commit message would be the actual guidelines :) | 17:42 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: dpaterson https://github.com/boris-42/AvgReviewer | 17:42 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: dpaterson going to move it to stackforge soon | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | yfried_: nobody reads guidelines | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | yfried_: so bot == guidelins | 17:43 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:43 |
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| boris-42 | so ok =) | 17:44 |
| boris-42 | #topic Open Discussion | 17:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: Rally)" | 17:44 | |
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| boris-42 | do we need to discuss something? | 17:44 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: the name of the AvgReview | 17:45 |
| meteorfox | AvgReviewer | 17:45 |
| meteorfox | :) | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: so? | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: you dislike it ? | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: we can call it CoreProtector | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | NerdReviewer | 17:45 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: so the average part throws me off | 17:45 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: why?) | 17:45 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: I think you are trying to use average as in common, popular opinion right? | 17:46 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: +1 NerdReviewer | 17:46 |
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| yfried_ | boris-42: "teacher's pet" | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: what about NerdReviewer? | 17:46 |
| meteorfox | lol | 17:46 |
| boris-42 | I think it is really great | 17:47 |
| amaretskiy | what about SkyNet ? :) | 17:47 |
| oanufriev | Nazi | 17:47 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: yeah, it's cool. Here's my suggestion, CommitSheriff | 17:47 |
| oanufriev | ReviewNazi | 17:47 |
| meteorfox | oanufriev: lol | 17:48 |
| oanufriev | Cerberus | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | ReviewNazi - I like | 17:48 |
| yfried_ | I like skynet and sheriff | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | Cerberus? | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | nice btw | 17:48 |
| boris-42 | it sound great + have great meaning | 17:48 |
| oanufriev | three head dog | 17:49 |
| yfried_ | Cerberus +1 | 17:49 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: cerberus is taken :( https://github.com/stackforge/cerberus | 17:49 |
| boris-42 | Cerberus +1 | 17:49 |
| oanufriev | only really dead guy can pass | 17:49 |
| rvasilets | CoP(CoreProtector)) | 17:49 |
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| dpaterson | BeanCounter | 17:50 |
| oanufriev | ok, cerberus-42 =) | 17:50 |
| rvasilets | We can call it Sean) | 17:50 |
| meteorfox | lol | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | rvasilets: Sean is bad reviewer | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | he is not nitpicking | 17:50 |
| rvasilets | <sntiSean) | 17:50 |
| rvasilets | *AntiSean | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | just Joe | 17:50 |
| boris-42 | =) | 17:50 |
| oanufriev | joebot | 17:51 |
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| boris-42 | What about | 17:51 |
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| boris-42 | Code Cerberus | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | CodeCerberus | 17:51 |
| boris-42 | CerbusIO | 17:51 |
| oanufriev | CRBerus - CodeReviewBot_e_rus | 17:52 |
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| boris-42 | lol CodeReviewBot_e_rus | 17:52 |
| boris-42 | meteorfox: yfried_ any ideas? | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | maybe back to | 17:53 |
| boris-42 | NerdReviewer?) | 17:53 |
| yfried_ | boris-42: NerdReviewer, Cerberus. | 17:53 |
| amaretskiy | SkyNet | 17:54 |
| rvasilets | Navigator -second person on RaLLY RACES) | 17:54 |
| boris-42 | I just see in comment "Ahhh fuuu Nerd Reviewer put -1 again!" | 17:54 |
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| boris-42 | Okay let's use NerdReviewer for now | 17:54 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: drop the Reviewer, just nerd (The Social Network reference) | 17:55 |
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| oanufriev | crb | 17:55 |
| oanufriev | codename_crb | 17:55 |
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| dpaterson | nerd +2 | 17:55 |
| oanufriev | fuuuugen | 17:55 |
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| oanufriev | ) | 17:55 |
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| boris-42 | lol | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | okay we need to actually finish meeting | 17:56 |
| boris-42 | so I will publish this project on stackforge | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | setup CI for it | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | and put some base structure | 17:57 |
| meteorfox | boris-42: ok | 17:57 |
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| boris-42 | I think it won't take too much time to create base | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | and integrate it | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | okay see you guys! | 17:57 |
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| meteorfox | bye | 17:57 |
| boris-42 | #endmeeting | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 17:57:57 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-17-17.08.html | 17:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-17-17.08.txt | 17:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/rally/2015/rally.2015-03-17-17.08.log.html | 17:58 |
| * ayoung sneaks in to get the good seat | 17:58 | |
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| *** aix has left #openstack-meeting | 17:58 | |
| * morganfainberg moves the podium so ayoung is in a bad seat. | 17:59 | |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, ayoung, dstanek, jamielennox, morganfainberg, stevemar, gyee, henrynash, topol, marekd, lbragstad, joesavak, shardy, fabiog, nkinder, lloydm, shrekuma, ksavich, hrybacki, rharwood, grantbow, vdreamarkitex, raildo, rodrigods, amakarov, ajayaa, hogepodge, breton, lhcheng, nonameentername, samueldmq, htruta, amolock, wanghong, fmarco76, davechen https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 17:59 |
| gyee | \o | 17:59 |
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| amakarov | o/ | 17:59 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, heh, you didn't see what I did to the podium | 17:59 |
| breton | hello | 17:59 |
| lhcheng | \o | 17:59 |
| * morganfainberg wheels in the green beer for those who enjoy that irish day. | 18:00 | |
| * ayoung sticking to the Jamesons and Guinness | 18:00 | |
| *** amaretskiy has left #openstack-meeting | 18:00 | |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, I prefer smithwicks to Guinness these days | 18:00 |
| marekd | hey | 18:00 |
| * morganfainberg gives it a few more moments for people to wake up. | 18:01 | |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:01 |
| henrynash | i | 18:01 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| samueldmq | hi | 18:01 |
| raildo | o// | 18:01 |
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| davechen_ | o/// | 18:01 |
| stevemar | o/ | 18:01 |
| bknudson | lol | 18:01 |
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| morganfainberg | ok well then. | 18:02 |
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| topol | o/ | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | #start meeting Keystone | 18:02 |
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| * topol wearing a green shirt | 18:02 | |
| ayoung | \m/_ (-v-) _\m/ | 18:02 |
| morganfainberg | #startmeeting Keystone | 18:02 |
| gyee | startmeeting? | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 18:02:46 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is morganfainberg. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, so i like to type extra spaces >> | 18:03 |
| gyee | ha | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | Ok, lets just get to it. | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | K3 this is this week. Please review the last fernet token patches. | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | #topic DB2 CI | 18:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "DB2 CI (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:03 | |
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| marekd | that was fast. | 18:03 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, o/ (since yanfengxi is not in channel) | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | yanfenxi is in beijing and wasn't able to stay awake. | 18:04 |
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| morganfainberg | understandable | 18:04 |
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| bknudson | so he asked me to cover this... | 18:04 |
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| marekd | 2:04 AM | 18:04 |
| marekd | in Beijing | 18:04 |
| bknudson | so the DB2 CI was disabled a while ago. | 18:04 |
| ayoung | why? | 18:04 |
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| davechen_ | i am still awake, 2:04 here. :) | 18:04 |
| bknudson | it was disabled because it was reporting merge failures | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 18:04 |
| bknudson | and nobody was around who could fix it. | 18:05 |
| bknudson | I don't have access. | 18:05 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, noise, consistently broken, and was not presenting logs for 30 days, and no one was found to fix it | 18:05 |
| dstanek | still in training, but i'll try to pay attention here too | 18:05 |
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| topol | who owns it? We can get you access | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | so the request is to re-enable it, just so that it can get notifications so we can verify it works, | 18:06 |
| bknudson | it won't be posting reviews | 18:06 |
| gyee | was it a voting gate before? | 18:06 |
| bknudson | when we think it's ready to post reviews we'll come ask fo rthat. | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, no. | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, ok so you want to move it back to sandbox capable | 18:06 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, i'm ok with that and will ask -infra, as long as it isn't posting anything until we're sure it is working. | 18:07 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: right. | 18:07 |
| gyee | how much time does db2 add to jenkins? | 18:07 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: ok, thanks. | 18:07 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, before it posts stuff again, we need to have a clear escalation when it's broken, it needs to retain logs for 30 days. | 18:08 |
| marekd | bknudson: is that DB2 CI running on VM provided by Rackspace,HP and others? | 18:08 |
| bknudson | gyee: obviously it runs on its own, and it's hard to compare since we've got our own system... | 18:08 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, preferably someone looking at it, vs. keystone having to ask them why it's broken. | 18:08 |
| ayoung | I vote yes...any additional data points on our DB side are valuable | 18:08 |
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| bknudson | marekd: we've got our own systems. | 18:08 |
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| bknudson | one of the issues is that we didn't have enough systems and we've added more. | 18:09 |
| marekd | bknudson: so, all VM's simply configure keystone to point to that remote backend somewhere else, ok | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | I believe these vms have their own db2 instance. | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | ok i'll ask -infra to re-enable as long as it isn't posting anything. | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | until other issues are addressed. | 18:09 |
| gyee | bknudson, that's fine so as long as it doesn't slow down jenkins considerably overall | 18:09 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, it's 3rd party CI. | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | it actually doesn't run all of the tests, only ones marked for keystone. | 18:10 |
| morganfainberg | gyee, so it should run mostly faster than the rest of the gate based on a smaller subset of tests. | 18:10 |
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| morganfainberg | gyee, and it wont blockup the actual gate pipeline (3rd party ci is check-only) | 18:11 |
| ayoung | Can we all agree yes and move on? I think this is a non issue | 18:11 |
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| gyee | morganfainberg, sure lets reenable then | 18:11 |
| marekd | ayoung: yes | 18:11 |
| bknudson | thanks! | 18:11 |
| ayoung | coo | 18:11 |
| bknudson | I'll let yanfengxi know. | 18:11 |
| gyee | bknudson, he'll need to fix failures at 2am :) | 18:11 |
| ayoung | he needs to give perms to bknudson to do it | 18:11 |
| morganfainberg | #info DB2 CI will be requested to be re-enabled but will not post until other issues (failures and 30 day log retention) have been addressed. | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Feature Freeze Exceptions | 18:12 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Feature Freeze Exceptions (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:12 | |
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| morganfainberg | since kilo3 is this week.. we have a couple FFEs that will be requested. | 18:12 |
| ayoung | how much work is left for Reseller? | 18:12 |
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| morganfainberg | I've spoken to henrynash to sponsor the two major FFEs | 18:12 |
| morganfainberg | the first FFE is reseller. | 18:12 |
| raildo | ayoung, we need to finish just one more patch (bye bye domain table) | 18:13 |
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| henrynash | yep, happy to sponsor | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | rodrigods, raildo, please send a message to the -dev mailing list requesting the FFE. | 18:13 |
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| ayoung | raildo, and how close is that...link? | 18:13 |
| raildo | morganfainberg, ok | 18:13 |
| gyee | a moment of silence for domains | 18:13 |
| morganfainberg | please say henrynash will sponsor, link to the code, and show that it's mostly reviewing. | 18:13 |
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| marekd | morganfainberg: http://paste.openstack.org/show/192951/ this is also after couple iterations of reviews. and since we were blocked by a bug we couldn't merge earlier: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152156/ | 18:13 |
| raildo | ayoung, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161854/ | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | morganfainberg, great, thanks | 18:13 |
| ayoung | why WIP? | 18:13 |
| raildo | ayoung,because we don't finish the implementation yet | 18:14 |
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| ayoung | OK....how much work? | 18:14 |
| morganfainberg | The second FFE, is the rest of henrynash's domainSQL, henrynash please send the FFE request to the -dev mailing list. I know it's just the final couple patches. | 18:14 |
| henrynash | morganfainberg: will do | 18:14 |
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| raildo | adn we have a problem when we're trying drop the table | 18:14 |
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| morganfainberg | marekd, you or marco are welcome to send an FFE request for those. | 18:15 |
| ayoung | raildo, ok, hit me up after the meeting if you need help | 18:15 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: ok | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, s/those/that | 18:15 |
| ayoung | that should be relatively simple to knock out | 18:15 |
| raildo | ayoung, ok, thanks :) | 18:15 |
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| ayoung | or impossible...we'll see. | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | when sending to the dev mailing list be sure to use [keystone] and include FFE request in the subject | 18:15 |
| morganfainberg | be descriptive | 18:15 |
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| morganfainberg | a few other BPs have been moved to post kilo3 since they are non-API impacting (and not really "Features") | 18:16 |
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| raildo | morganfainberg, ok | 18:16 |
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| marekd | morganfainberg: ack. | 18:16 |
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| morganfainberg | please respond to the ML topics (everyone) for/against/concerns once tehy are sent. | 18:16 |
| ayoung | raildo, do it as two migrations. One for the FK, one for the table drop | 18:16 |
| ayoung | will make it easier to sort out/ | 18:16 |
| henrynash | bknduson, stevemar, lbragstad: there are two domain config ones that we can probably get in ahead of k3 since they have been extensively reviewed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/159928/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165075/ | 18:16 |
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| raildo | ayoung, the FK part is working, but when we try drop the table, we got a error. i'll talk with you later :) | 18:17 |
| morganfainberg | the ML topic will be used to either grant the exception or push to liberty. Realize it is not exclusively the keystone team involved in granting the FFE, i will be conferring with ttx and release management as well. | 18:17 |
| bknudson | are all these reviews on the https://gist.github.com/dolph/651c6a1748f69637abd0 page? | 18:17 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, no. those reviews are just for k3 now [except the domain SQL one] | 18:18 |
| bknudson | that's where I've been going to find reviews. | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, since someone else has starred it | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | should we put them on the review page? | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | I can star them | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, so basically the fernet tokens only | 18:18 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: dolphm bknudson : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152156/ is not | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, no. | 18:18 |
| morganfainberg | lbragstad, wait till the FFEs are granted | 18:18 |
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| henrynash | morgainfainberg: remind me, keystone client library additions don’t need an FFE, right? | 18:18 |
| lbragstad | morganfainberg: ok | 18:18 |
| stevemar | henrynash, nope | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | henrynash, client and middleware and pycadf have no FFEs needed | 18:19 |
| bknudson | at some point we're going to release a keystoneclient, so they have to be in before that. | 18:19 |
| henrynash | ok | 18:19 |
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| morganfainberg | there will be a release of client right before RC | 18:19 |
| ayoung | yeah...let's queue up the client questions for later | 18:19 |
| henrynash | bknduson: indeed | 18:19 |
| ayoung | I have a few... | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | that client release will coincide with the release (final tagging) | 18:19 |
| morganfainberg | but for today, the Fernet token patches are the priority | 18:20 |
| bknudson | scary. | 18:20 |
| bknudson | btw, this means that bp https://blueprints.launchpad.net/openstack/?searchtext=auth-token-use-client isn't going to be done for K. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, remove " Group role revocation invalidates all user tokens" | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | #info Fernet Token Final Reviews are priority for k3 | 18:20 |
| ayoung | we are not going to address that | 18:20 |
| bknudson | since it requires changes to auth_token middleware that depend on client changes. | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, i can't someone else has it starred | 18:20 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it's not exclusively my list. | 18:20 |
| ayoung | Clone it | 18:21 |
| ayoung | Its git! | 18:21 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, i don't have the bot that updates it. | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, that's dolphs code. | 18:21 |
| morganfainberg | and i haven't seen it. | 18:21 |
| ayoung | I know, but for the k3 list on launchpad it should be gone | 18:21 |
| ayoung | https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/kilo-3 | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it was tagging 2 bugs, i missed one | 18:22 |
| ayoung | cool | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | ok | 18:22 |
| morganfainberg | #topic requirements.txt: Should requirements.txt be for the expected installation | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "requirements.txt: Should requirements.txt be for the expected installation (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:22 | |
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| morganfainberg | #undo | 18:22 |
| ayoung | wait | 18:22 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Topic object at 0x90b8750> | 18:22 |
| ayoung | skipped one | 18:22 |
| ayoung | https://blueprints.launchpad.net/keystone/+spec/mapping-enhancements | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, that is a patch dstanek needed to update a comment on | 18:23 |
| ayoung | that is on the k3 list, and tagged as needs code review | 18:23 |
| ayoung | other than that it is good>? | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | it's done, just a test enhancement that could land now/post k3 | 18:23 |
| morganfainberg | yes | 18:23 |
| stevemar | ayoung, i think we can close that one out now | 18:23 |
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| morganfainberg | wasn't going to close it till the last patch was landed but that is minimal/doesn't need massive eyes atm. | 18:23 |
| ayoung | OK... | 18:24 |
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| morganfainberg | #topic requirements.txt: Should requirements.txt be for the expected installation? | 18:24 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "requirements.txt: Should requirements.txt be for the expected installation? (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:24 | |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, o/ | 18:24 |
| bknudson | ah, so I posted a review... | 18:24 |
| bknudson | that got -1d | 18:24 |
| ayoung | link | 18:24 |
| morganfainberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162360/ | 18:25 |
| stevemar | bknudson, you were finally on the receiving end | 18:25 |
| bknudson | y, that was it. | 18:25 |
| bknudson | essentially moving fernet requirements to test-requirements.txt | 18:25 |
| bknudson | since my understanding was that we only have default config requirements in requirements.txt | 18:25 |
| ayoung | Do we have mysql in requirements? | 18:25 |
| morganfainberg | my view is test-requirements should only be for testing. | 18:25 |
| bknudson | now, if we change that policy ... maybe we should also have ldap and ldappool in requirements.txt? | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | anything that could be used for runtime should be in main requirements.txt | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i would support that | 18:26 |
| stevemar | bknudson, we probably should | 18:26 |
| topol | bknudson +++ | 18:26 |
| bknudson | vote on it? | 18:26 |
| morganfainberg | #vote | 18:27 |
| morganfainberg | damn enter key. | 18:27 |
| gyee | so why we even need test-requirements.txt then? | 18:27 |
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| bknudson | there will still be test-only requirements... | 18:27 |
| gyee | since now everything will be enabled by default | 18:27 |
| bknudson | testtools | 18:27 |
| * topol yay a vote. lets see who is paying attention | 18:27 | |
| morganfainberg | gyee, yes there are test-only things | 18:27 |
| bknudson | mock | 18:27 |
| haneef | How about different providers for dogpile? where does it fit? | 18:27 |
| bknudson | fixtures | 18:27 |
| stevemar | the documentation stuff will be there too | 18:27 |
| ayoung | we don't even have mySQL in test-requirements | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | haneef, we would be adding any runtim dep - the only special case is liky mongo for licensing reasons | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | haneef, and that is a special case across openstack | 18:28 |
| stevemar | using test-req for 'optional' isn't right | 18:28 |
| bknudson | I don't think mysql is on pypi? | 18:28 |
| bknudson | b/c oracle. | 18:28 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, mysqldb is, but i think we get that another way | 18:28 |
| ayoung | So...on the client side, we are splitting things into separate repos due to dependencies. This is where the python packaging is dumb | 18:28 |
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| dstanek | i always thought that test-requirements was actually for the optional stuff | 18:29 |
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| ayoung | if we have a plugin/extension/driver that needs a special piece of code, we should be able to package that separately without having to split the repo | 18:29 |
| stevemar | dstanek, that's what we kept telling people :P | 18:29 |
| ayoung | well, it is for installing things we need to run tests | 18:29 |
| ayoung | so it has the optional flavor, since you can do a minimal install without it | 18:30 |
| topol | whaat? test-requirements is for test. come on man! | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | #startvote Should all runtime requirements (that don't have specific licensing concerns) move from test-requirements.txt to requirements.txt (test-requirements no longer used for "optional")? yes,no,obligatory-yes-but-i-want-to-be-a-snowflake-answer | 18:30 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Should all runtime requirements (that don't have specific licensing concerns) move from test-requirements.txt to requirements.txt (test-requirements no longer used for "optional")? Valid vote options are yes, no, obligatory-yes-but-i-want-to-be-a-snowflake-answer. | 18:30 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 18:30 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, is python really going to continue to be so stiffnecked about this? | 18:30 |
| ayoung | #vote no | 18:30 |
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| gyee | #vote yes | 18:30 |
| morganfainberg | #vote yes | 18:30 |
| samueldmq | #vote yes | 18:30 |
| topol | #vote yes | 18:30 |
| ayoung | It's not licensing, it is dependencies on install | 18:30 |
| marekd | #vote yes | 18:30 |
| bknudson | #vote no | 18:30 |
| breton | who will be the original one? | 18:31 |
| breton | #vote yes | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | #vote no | 18:31 |
| dstanek | #vote no | 18:31 |
| bknudson | voting no just because this is how we've always worked so why change it. | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, magically knowing what to install to turn something on is a terrible experience | 18:31 |
| jamielennox | but torn | 18:31 |
| dolphm | #vote no | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, it doesn't prevent redhat from bundling deps differently | 18:31 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, having to find the LDAP deps if you are not running LDAP is also a bad one | 18:31 |
| ayoung | or postgresql | 18:31 |
| ayoung | DB2? | 18:31 |
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| haneef | #vote no | 18:31 |
| dstanek | has anyone talked to distributions about this? | 18:31 |
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| jamielennox | morganfainberg: it expects (for example redhat) package maintainer to go and find all this for themselves | 18:31 |
| breton | #showvote | 18:31 |
| openstack | yes (6): gyee, morganfainberg, marekd, samueldmq, topol, breton | 18:31 |
| openstack | no (6): dstanek, ayoung, bknudson, haneef, dolphm, jamielennox | 18:31 |
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| gyee | evenly spread | 18:31 |
| morganfainberg | test-requirements is the wrong place for "optional" python dependencies | 18:32 |
| dstanek | ayoung: this isn't really a python thing | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | hmmm... | 18:32 |
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| topol | so ayoung brings up a valid consumability point | 18:32 |
| ayoung | dstanek, distributions are going to have to update how they idenityf what to install with what...it will likely break their scripts\ | 18:32 |
| stevemar | #vote yes | 18:32 |
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| ayoung | dstanek, yes it is, cuz I can only deploy one package from one repo | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | stevemar: the tiebreaker. | 18:32 |
| raildo | #vote yes | 18:32 |
| ayoung | and that is due to python, not git, and not packaging | 18:32 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, packagers have told me both sides, the one that got me was "i can't make X a dependency in my package cause it's in test-requirements, move it to requirements or i can't support it because $policy" | 18:32 |
| topol | we should not put something in requirements if its not always required and can easily break stuff | 18:32 |
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| dolphm | morganfainberg: that's a broken $policy | 18:33 |
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| stevemar | topol, how would it break stuff? | 18:33 |
| bknudson | topol: changing your vote? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | can we hold off on this one until we get feedback please? | 18:33 |
| dstanek | ayoung: normally you would use the extras_require to say 'hey, i'm using ldap and here are the extra requirements' | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, putting things in test-requirements because they are optional is worse imo | 18:33 |
| lhcheng | #vote no | 18:33 |
| breton | topol: if it's in the main tree and covered with tests, it's working | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | #vote no | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, that is very much the wrong place for these things | 18:33 |
| stevemar | breton, ++ | 18:33 |
| lbragstad | for the reasons bknudson listed | 18:33 |
| bknudson | ayoung: you know someone who can provide feedback on your side? | 18:33 |
| ayoung | bknudson, yes | 18:33 |
| ayoung | apevec | 18:33 |
| topol | ayoung can you elaborate on your ldap concern | 18:33 |
| morganfainberg | this includes cryptography, msgpack, ldap, ldappool, etc | 18:33 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: is there a broader community concern on that? | 18:33 |
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| ayoung | topol, LDAP pulls in a native library | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | morganfainberg: isn't this a TC question anyway? | 18:34 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: (i wouldn't want to see keystone deviate from the community consensus on usage of test-requirements) | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | jamielennox, not really. | 18:34 |
| topol | ayoung and if the library isnt there? | 18:34 |
| ayoung | so by putting LDAP in the python tree, you pull in pythn-ldaop, which pulls in openldap libs | 18:34 |
| gyee | morganfainberg have an excellent point on *user experience* | 18:34 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i think we're flat out doing it wrong in python. | 18:34 |
| ayoung | topol, I think with PIP, it is even worse | 18:34 |
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| breton | #showvote | 18:34 |
| gyee | it would suck if I enabled a feature and then found out I need to explicitly install more packages | 18:34 |
| openstack | yes (8): gyee, morganfainberg, marekd, samueldmq, topol, raildo, breton, stevemar | 18:34 |
| openstack | no (8): dstanek, ayoung, lhcheng, bknudson, haneef, lbragstad, dolphm, jamielennox | 18:34 |
| stevemar | how contentious | 18:34 |
| breton | gyee: ++ | 18:34 |
| ayoung | for MySQL and LDAP you have to have the devel version of the native libs installed to do the native bindings | 18:34 |
| bknudson | I vote to put it off, let's have an action to hear back from packagers. | 18:34 |
| topol | gyee makes a good point | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, this isn't openstack community this is doing it wrong in python world. if we want a separate dependency tree, we should be splitting the stuff up into separate python packages | 18:35 |
| topol | I agree with bknudson | 18:35 |
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| stevemar | gyee, that's always been the case | 18:35 |
| henrynash | #vote no | 18:35 |
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| gyee | stevemar, then lets make it less suck | 18:35 |
| dolphm | gyee: some of those packages might require more binary deps - which sucks in python land imo | 18:35 |
| dstanek | gyee: that mean you always have to install everything? what about things that have a dep on a system package? | 18:35 |
| bknudson | as far as our packaging goes, I don't think it will cause a problem either way. | 18:35 |
| stevemar | gyee, thats why i voted yes | 18:35 |
| haneef | gyee: it would also suck if my installation is stuck due to a dependency which I won't be using it | 18:35 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: that'd be fantastic | 18:35 |
| gyee | most of us are shipping a distro | 18:35 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, i have $ideas for liberty ;) | 18:36 |
| ayoung | we split the python-keystoneclient repo for just this reason | 18:36 |
| topol | henrynash, what sis your concern? | 18:36 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: test-requirements.txt was invented by the openstack community | 18:36 |
| gyee | a distro, not distro and a bunch of optional deps | 18:36 |
| ayoung | the client is relatively consistant, but we pushed kerberos and SAML codes to separate repos | 18:36 |
| davechen_ | #vote no | 18:36 |
| topol | Im scared we will rush this decision and really break folks | 18:36 |
| ayoung | Let's float it to the -dev list and get some wider feedback, and revisit | 18:36 |
| morganfainberg | topol, it wont really break anyone shipping a distro, and anyone doing CI/CD already has addressed most of this. | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | but in short. we'll defer this till liberty | 18:37 |
| breton | ++ayoung | 18:37 |
| * topol trying to my yes back in the bottle | 18:37 | |
| bknudson | there are some discussion already going on in community. | 18:37 |
| gyee | as a user, I would expect a distro contains everything that I need | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | based on this. vote | 18:37 |
| henrynash | topol: I’m worried about a) deviating from openstack standard, and b) loading stuff that’s not strictly needed into production systems (less you install the better for secuirty) | 18:37 |
| morganfainberg | we'll do further talking at the summit and on the list | 18:37 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, i am going to -2 that patch though for now. | 18:37 |
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| bknudson | wait, my patch was about following the current policy... | 18:37 |
| bknudson | not deviating. | 18:37 |
| topol | henrynash, make sense | 18:38 |
| topol | makes sense :-) | 18:38 |
| dstanek | #showvote | 18:38 |
| openstack | yes (8): gyee, morganfainberg, marekd, samueldmq, topol, raildo, breton, stevemar | 18:38 |
| openstack | no (10): dstanek, ayoung, lhcheng, bknudson, davechen_, haneef, lbragstad, dolphm, jamielennox, henrynash | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, because i don't want to shuffle everything around right now. | 18:38 |
| topol | (that s makes a world of difference) | 18:38 |
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| topol | #vote no | 18:38 |
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| morganfainberg | #endvote | 18:38 |
| openstack | Voted on "Should all runtime requirements (that don't have specific licensing concerns) move from test-requirements.txt to requirements.txt (test-requirements no longer used for "optional")?" Results are | 18:38 |
| openstack | yes (7): gyee, morganfainberg, marekd, samueldmq, raildo, breton, stevemar | 18:38 |
| openstack | no (11): dstanek, ayoung, lhcheng, bknudson, davechen_, haneef, lbragstad, dolphm, jamielennox, henrynash, topol | 18:38 |
| bknudson | it's 2 lines. | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, and if we're doing massive policy adherance lots of stuff needs to shuffle. | 18:38 |
| bknudson | really? | 18:38 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, yes. we have lots of non-default things in there. | 18:39 |
| morganfainberg | relating to PKI tokens as well | 18:39 |
| ayoung | Oy Vey! | 18:39 |
| dolphm | genesis in keystone? https://github.com/openstack/keystone/commit/72e4edcc12f4741bd945adf777fe43f3ffcd62d6 | 18:39 |
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| morganfainberg | moving optional to test-requirements was an awful thing. it has caused a lot of questions and "why can't X work" with a response of "go install thing because we don't make it a hard requirement" | 18:40 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i might change my vote to yes after seeing my own commit :P | 18:40 |
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| topol | wow things were simpler in 2011 | 18:40 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, lets work with dstank to have a better modular install story | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, liberty. | 18:40 |
| gyee | topol, 1969, nothing by peace and love | 18:40 |
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| ayoung | if we can get away from "separate git repo to avoid depednecy hell" I'll be happy | 18:40 |
| bknudson | ok, so for K we're going to stick with fernet requirements in requirements.txt ? | 18:40 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, we wont be able to with pypi | 18:41 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, on the client first, and then Liberty for Server. | 18:41 |
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| morganfainberg | ayoung, and pbr. | 18:41 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, THEN WE BREAK THEM! | 18:41 |
| bknudson | we can just make it a policy where we pick based on what we know. | 18:41 |
| ayoung | WE BREAK THAT TOO | 18:41 |
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| ayoung | BREAK ALL THE THINGS! | 18:41 |
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| marekd | rewrite everythin from scratch | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ok so let me change my stance | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | ayoung's ptl slogan | 18:41 |
| dstanek | this is really a packager issue - 'apt-get install keystone keystone-ldap ... etc' - right? | 18:41 |
| topol | please remember the user experience concerns | 18:41 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, pip install and apt-get install | 18:42 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox, life philosophy really. I was, and will always in my heart be, an Infantryman | 18:42 |
| gyee | there's a man who lived | 18:42 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, so my stance is: if it's pure python it can always go in requirements. if it has exceptional binary deps lets put it in test-requirements for now (ldap) | 18:42 |
| topol | morganfainberg that makes sense | 18:42 |
| haneef | That is better | 18:42 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: pki & openssl? | 18:43 |
| bknudson | let's write a pure-python ldap client. | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | dolphm, opensssl isn't exceptional. | 18:43 |
| ayoung | morganfainberg, we shouldprobably get MySQL into test-requirements then | 18:43 |
| gyee | and xmlsec1 | 18:43 |
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| ayoung | pki and openssl is even worse | 18:43 |
| bknudson | remember lxml? | 18:43 |
| ayoung | those can't be done by package requirements except at the distro level | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | if it has historically been in requirements DONT MOVE IT until we decide how we're handling the splitup/new install etc | 18:43 |
| gyee | yes that one too | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | this is for new requirements | 18:43 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: to me that is harder to draw the line - do i now have to know how projects are implemented? | 18:43 |
| morganfainberg | so crypto and msgpack should be evaluated | 18:43 |
| ayoung | we need to get the cryptography.py solution in place for PKI etc. | 18:44 |
| bknudson | cryptography must rely on openssl. | 18:44 |
| ayoung | But not today | 18:44 |
| gyee | dstanek, I am on the user experience side | 18:44 |
| * dolphm finds it best to refer to the library as pypi/cryptography to avoid confusion | 18:44 | |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, try and install it, is it awful to pip install it? | 18:44 |
| dolphm | bknudson: it does not, afaik | 18:44 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek did it require a bunch of extra apt-gets (e.g. ldap libs dev) | 18:44 |
| haneef | ayoung: There was a review last week to replace openssl system calls with a crypto lib | 18:44 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: things will go fine if i have the required system packages already so i may not think twice | 18:45 |
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| morganfainberg | dstanek, since we aren't adding more g-rs this cycle, this is largely deferred | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, the only question is msgpack and crypto | 18:45 |
| ayoung | haneef, link? | 18:45 |
| dstanek | morganfainberg: fair enough | 18:45 |
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| bknudson | btw - we need a newer cryptography, we're using features that aren't in 0.4 | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | dstanek, so, for this cycle address those two and in liberty we work on better stuff. | 18:45 |
| browne | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163088/ | 18:45 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, yes there should be a g-r update | 18:46 |
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| morganfainberg | browne, yay! | 18:46 |
| morganfainberg | browne, thats cool. | 18:46 |
| bknudson | that must rely on openssl? | 18:46 |
| ayoung | Ah...cool. that is for the setup. Need to -2 that one | 18:46 |
| haneef | ayoung: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163088/ | 18:46 |
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| ayoung | Its right, but not right enopguh | 18:46 |
| topol | browne, Really? we can do that now? Thats awesome! | 18:46 |
| amakarov | wow, at long last! | 18:46 |
| marekd | browne: does it also spawns new process? | 18:46 |
| dolphm | morganfainberg: i believe alex gaynor implemented everything we needed to replace openssl while sitting at the keystone pod in atlanta | 18:46 |
| dolphm | marekd: no | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164289/ | 18:47 |
| browne | marekd: no, library calls. this patch only replace rsa key generation | 18:47 |
| dolphm | pypi/cryptography implements it's own primitives | 18:47 |
| bknudson | morganfainberg: y, +2 it. | 18:47 |
| browne | and requires python-cryptography 0.8 | 18:47 |
| dolphm | browne: going to do validation next? | 18:47 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i can only +1 requirements | 18:47 |
| dolphm | browne: does global requirements require 0.8? | 18:48 |
| browne | dolphm: yeah, i want to, more work for sure. | 18:48 |
| dolphm | oh i see the review | 18:48 |
| ayoung | doesn't matter, we want to kill that code path anyway. | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | selfsigning was never the right approach for SSL, and if we do it, it should not be embedded in the keystone code | 18:49 |
| bknudson | #showvote | 18:49 |
| dolphm | browne: add "Depends-On: I98941cce82d3c33bcc95ecc48ecff413ef81664a" to your keystone patch commit message | 18:49 |
| ayoung | its not their code that is wrong, it is ours | 18:49 |
| gyee | ayoung, by they are two different issues | 18:49 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, highly contentious, with people switching votes | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee, | 18:49 |
| gyee | one is about key management | 18:49 |
| dolphm | browne: IF you don't want your patch to ever be tested without cryptography > 0.8 | 18:49 |
| ayoung | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/134099/ | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee, ^^ | 18:49 |
| gyee | the other to replace openssl command line call | 18:49 |
| ayoung | gyee the openssl command line call can go away, and be replaced by the certmonger call | 18:50 |
| gyee | ayoung, so certmonger does both? | 18:50 |
| ayoung | I mean, where they *fixed* things it is arguable irrelevant. | 18:50 |
| ayoung | Yep | 18:50 |
| gyee | nice | 18:50 |
| topol | ayoung, VERY COOL! | 18:50 |
| browne | is certmonger another command line? | 18:50 |
| morganfainberg | browne, yes, but it can talk to secure cert stores. | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | browne, vs needing a cert in an insecure location(ish) thing. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | command line is irrelevant | 18:51 |
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| lbragstad | ~ 9 minutes left | 18:51 |
| ayoung | we need the library for the hot path | 18:51 |
| topol | ayoung, doesnt command line imply a performance hit? | 18:51 |
| ayoung | signing and validating certs | 18:51 |
| ayoung | topol, this is at setup | 18:51 |
| morganfainberg | browne, there are further discussons to using certmonger, but that is not today | 18:51 |
| ayoung | so irrelevant | 18:51 |
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| topol | ayoung, K | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ok so back on topic | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | topol, certmonger is just for provisioning, we need cryptography.py for keystoneclient | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | requirements: nothing is moving, please vote on bknudson's patch. | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | i wont -2 | 18:52 |
| ayoung | server calls in to client to sign tokens | 18:52 |
| browne | ayoung: command line is not irrelevant with keystoneclient anyway. i was seeing huge numbers of open file handles due to the exec (and chatty neutron) | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | ayoung, please defer this to later | 18:52 |
| ayoung | ++ | 18:52 |
| morganfainberg | if you want msgpack and crypto over in test-requirements please +2/+1 | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | if you don't care, no vote -1. | 18:53 |
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| morganfainberg | no vote/-1 | 18:53 |
| bknudson | alright, thanks. | 18:54 |
| morganfainberg | i'll either press approve based on overall score on post k3 or -2/abandon | 18:54 |
| topol | is there a good reason to move beyond the "it should be there" | 18:54 |
| ayoung | vote yes | 18:54 |
| ayoung | vote for pedro | 18:54 |
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| gyee | vote for jeb | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | this is a simple case where overall score will win, a +2/+1 is 1 point for, a -1 is a vote against. just score the patch the way you feel. | 18:55 |
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| topol | if folks are used to it being in requirements we just cause pain by moving to test | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | topol, this is just for fernet | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | the 2 items bknudson wanted to move | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | crypto and msgpack | 18:55 |
| morganfainberg | nothing else is moving | 18:55 |
| topol | K, so no larger impact. got it | 18:55 |
| bknudson | those are both new | 18:55 |
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| morganfainberg | next quick topic | 18:56 |
| topol | K. brad slow on St Patricks day (and all other days) | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | #topic Liberty Specs | 18:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Liberty Specs (Meeting topic: Keystone)" | 18:56 | |
| morganfainberg | I will be sending the announcemenrt that liberty spec proposals will be open as soon as K3 has been tagged | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | #info morganfainberg will be sending the announcemenrt that liberty spec proposals will be open as soon as K3 has been tagged | 18:56 |
| morganfainberg | the goal is to make it so we can have spec discussions (like at the midcycle) but at the summit this time | 18:57 |
| marekd | ++ | 18:57 |
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| marekd | so we should start working on the specs right about almost now. | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | getitng almost a full ½ dev cycle on specs by L1 so we can avoid piling everything into the 3rd milestone | 18:57 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, that is why we're going to open spec proposals now :) | 18:58 |
| samueldmq | morganfainberg, ++ | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | marekd, well this week :) | 18:58 |
| marekd | morganfainberg: that's why i said "almost now" :-) | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | thats all i have. | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | and we should clear out of here for the nice -infra folks | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | drink an irish drink or something | 18:58 |
| morganfainberg | #endmeeting | 18:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 18:59:05 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-17-18.02.html | 18:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-17-18.02.txt | 18:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-03-17-18.02.log.html | 18:59 |
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| *** pcrews has joined #openstack-meeting | 19:00 | |
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| fungi | hidey-ho, neighbors! | 19:00 |
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| pleia2 | o/ | 19:00 |
| pcrews | o/ | 19:00 |
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| TheJulia | o/ | 19:00 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| asselin | o/ | 19:00 |
| jeblair | mordred: are you ops for a reason? | 19:00 |
| yolanda | o/ | 19:00 |
| mmedvede | o/ | 19:00 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | jeblair: nope. probably op-d myself a while back to kick a bad actor | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 19:01:28 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| greghaynes | O/ | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-10-19.01.html | 19:01 |
| jeblair | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:01 |
| jeblair | jeblair nibalizer work through openstackinfra-httpd publishing | 19:01 |
| jeblair | jeblair fix openstackinfra account on puppetforge | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
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| jeblair | so i did the second thing | 19:01 |
| GheRivero | o/ | 19:01 |
| krtaylor | o/ | 19:01 |
| notnownikki | o/ | 19:01 |
| jesusaurus | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | so we should actually have perms to publish to the forge | 19:02 |
| fungi | yay for stuff getting done! | 19:02 |
| mordred | woo! | 19:02 |
| jeblair | the first one is still in progress | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | notably, we're reworking the tag push job to do tag versioning | 19:02 |
| fungi | i saw one of those changes fly by earlier | 19:02 |
| jeblair | at any rate, this is unblocked | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #topic Schedule next project renames | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Schedule next project renames (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
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| jeblair | i'd like to continue to defer this until the governance changes land for bindep and os-client-config | 19:03 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:03 |
| SpamapS | o/ | 19:03 |
| anteaya | makes sense | 19:03 |
| fungi | okie-dokie. also we want to update the table default encoding in trove for the db when it happens | 19:03 |
| mordred | is that our oldest outstanding still-active bug? | 19:04 |
| fungi | since that needs gerrit to be offline while we restart the trove instance | 19:04 |
| SpamapS | fungi: same db as the subunit2sql ? | 19:04 |
| fungi | SpamapS: no, the utf-8 default | 19:04 |
| breton | .зфке | 19:04 |
| breton | sorry | 19:04 |
| jeblair | fungi: we may have downtime before then | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | but if not, yes :) | 19:04 |
| fungi | jeblair: fair point, we have the distro upgrade coming | 19:04 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs) | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:enable_swift,n,z | 19:05 |
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| anteaya | empty | 19:05 |
| jeblair | we have some images with the index overwrite bug fixed | 19:05 |
| jeblair | but about 3 images in hpcloud failed to build this morning | 19:05 |
| jeblair | or, well, at least 3 of one type | 19:05 |
| jeblair | possibly more overall | 19:05 |
| jeblair | so we can probably verify that bug is fixed on the ones that did build | 19:06 |
| jeblair | but we do still need more images built before we can consider it completely solved | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | aside from that... are we now ready to switch over python jobs? | 19:06 |
| jeblair | (heh, i'm assuming we still haven't done that -- correct me if i'm wrong) | 19:06 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:06 |
| mordred | jeblair: I am ready to switch over python jobs | 19:07 |
| anteaya | I thought we did | 19:07 |
| jeblair | anteaya: you are correct, we did | 19:07 |
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| anteaya | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156521/ | 19:07 |
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| jeblair | so next question, aside from the index problem, are there any other problems we've seen since that merged? | 19:08 |
| anteaya | I have not seen any | 19:09 |
| fungi | nothing so far afaik | 19:09 |
| mordred | I haven't heard anyone scream | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | then i guess we're ready for jhesketh to propose the next step. i'm not sure if we're ready for devstack jobs yet, or do we need to do more non-devstack jobs first | 19:09 |
| fungi | we have 99 problems, but so far this has not been one | 19:09 |
| jeblair | so let's ask him when he's online :) | 19:09 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Nodepool DIB) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:10 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:dib-nodepool,n,z | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | anything blocking this? | 19:10 |
| mordred | yeah - Ng is trying to get rackspace to enable glance on his account | 19:10 |
| mordred | so that he can test the configdrive changes there | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | oh that's great! | 19:11 |
| mordred | otherwise, I need to stop futzing with puppet apply and dive back into teh nodepool-shade patch | 19:11 |
| fungi | i've been uploading more bindep changes to get the features we'll need implemented for distro package management, and doing some more experimental testing on nova for the job run-time database config abstraction | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | fungi: should we go ahead and add infra-core to bindep? | 19:12 |
| jeblair | (anticipating its move to infra) | 19:12 |
| fungi | i'm fine with that | 19:12 |
| fungi | lifeless already said he was cool with it | 19:12 |
| anteaya | he did | 19:12 |
| jeblair | done | 19:13 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/158098 | 19:13 |
| jeblair | #info infra-core added to bindep | 19:13 |
| SpamapS | I've been poking at a simplified way to spin up a nova-api with fake stuff on the backend for testing nodepool easily. | 19:13 |
| fungi | is the highest priority one there, since no jobs pass without it | 19:13 |
| SpamapS | (and keystone and glance too) | 19:13 |
| fungi | hence all my other changes depending on it | 19:13 |
| anteaya | fungi: I was just about to review that one | 19:13 |
| jeblair | SpamapS: i'm really keen on nodepool testing! | 19:13 |
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| fungi | thanks anteaya | 19:14 |
| anteaya | fungi: will do so after meetings | 19:14 |
| anteaya | sure | 19:14 |
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| SpamapS | jeblair: yeah, I think the best bang-for-our-buck will be simpler functional testing. | 19:14 |
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| SpamapS | not that it's super hard to spin up a devstack, but if we can have a single command that spins up what would be devstack in 1s... that seems like a useful thing for other purposes too. :) | 19:14 |
| jeblair | ianw added config file validation to nodepool | 19:15 |
| jeblair | i think we should add a job to system-config that runs that on our nodepool config file | 19:15 |
| ianw | jeblair: changes out for that | 19:15 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:15 |
| jeblair | and once that's in place, i'll be much happier approving nodepool changes :) | 19:15 |
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| ianw | also, i'd appreciate some eyes on the f21 d-i-b build -> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/163982/ | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | ianw: cool, point me at them! | 19:16 |
| ianw | clarkb has verified that one also | 19:16 |
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| ianw | #link https://review.openstack.org/164901 | 19:16 |
| ianw | #link https://review.openstack.org/164904 | 19:16 |
| fungi | thanks. i'll check those out today | 19:16 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:17 | |
| ianw | ^ reviews, i can put them in the dib-nodepool topic if you want | 19:17 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:zanata,n,z | 19:17 |
| jeblair | pleia2: you're still iterating on that? | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | yep | 19:17 |
| pleia2 | < StevenK> pleia2: Update for meeting. I am still plugging away, trying to convince maven-release-plugin to build so maven-sortpom-plugin can build, so zanata-parent can. | 19:18 |
| pleia2 | so that's the client packaging stuff | 19:18 |
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| pleia2 | packaging the java client, obviously (maven) | 19:18 |
| jeblair | why are we packaging the java client? | 19:18 |
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| pleia2 | because we need it installed server side to run some of the automated scripts | 19:19 |
| jeblair | pleia2: what scripts? | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | it's the first work item on the spec | 19:19 |
| SpamapS | Could it just be run from {however upstrema packages it} ? | 19:19 |
| jeblair | so it is... | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | all the stuff transifex does now, like submitting changes to gerrit when they're over 75% complete and such | 19:19 |
| pleia2 | AJaeger is more familiar with the scripts | 19:20 |
| jeblair | pleia2: but we run that in zuul jobs | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | ok, well we need to client somewhere in order to process these things | 19:20 |
| pleia2 | and to use it in our infrastructure, it should be packaged | 19:21 |
| fungi | so installed server side in this case means actually on the proposal job worker | 19:21 |
| mordred | if we're going to package things to install onto our test nodes, we'll need to figure out repository management. | 19:21 |
| fungi | or maybe some specialized equivalent to the proposal worker | 19:21 |
| mordred | I would point out that thus far we have never made packaging something in distro packages a pre-req to installation in our infrastructure | 19:21 |
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| jeblair | so we could run this on the zanata server, or we could emulate what we're doing now and run it on the proposal slave | 19:22 |
| jeblair | pleia2: what os will the zanata server be running? | 19:22 |
| fungi | yeah, that's definitely a good question. how does release management of the client tie into the packaging plan? are we going to be rebuilding packages for it? | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | jeblair: Ubuntu 14.04 | 19:22 |
| pleia2 | fungi: that's a question for StevenK during AU daytime, he may have a plan, and if not, we should talk about one if we are packaging | 19:23 |
| jeblair | okay, so i think we need to have more of a discussion here, since i have no idea what we will do with a locally built package (we've never had one before) | 19:23 |
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| fungi | right, if someone is working on getting a package of the client into ubuntu universe, then i guess it's not directly a burden on the infra team | 19:24 |
| jeblair | yeah, if that's what that means, then we might be set | 19:24 |
| jeblair | (assuming the timeframe works, and we aren't going to require new features rapidly) | 19:24 |
| pleia2 | I don't think the intent was to push it upstream | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | maybe a ppa or something | 19:25 |
| jeblair | so let's fungi, mordred, pleia2, jeblair, and StevenK chat later | 19:25 |
| fungi | but if we're building packages for it, then we're distributing them onto the server ourselves, and lose a lot of the actual benefit to it being packages at all (vs doing a 'make && make install' or whatever) | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | sounds good | 19:25 |
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| pleia2 | as for the puppet module, cinerama has continued work on that and we've gone through some iterations | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | that | 19:25 |
| fungi | yeah, just want to make sure the benefit outweighs the ongoing effort there | 19:25 |
| pleia2 | that's this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/147947/ | 19:25 |
| cinerama | yup. next big challenge is the openid stuff | 19:25 |
| cinerama | don't forget the apache proxy one | 19:26 |
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| SpamapS | http://zanata.org/help/cli/cli-install/ <-- looks pretty straight forward and probably similar to the way gerrit is installed yes? | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | on line 135 of this etherpad we have plans for subsequent patches defined, so this first one doesn't continue to overwhelm us https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-install | 19:26 |
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| cinerama | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/164011/ | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | SpamapS: I think the "it should be packaged" thing came out of summit, or there was miscommunication, either way it ended up as the first work item on the spec :\ | 19:26 |
| pleia2 | but we'll talk about it later | 19:27 |
| SpamapS | pleia2: well technically it is packaged.. on maven. ;) | 19:27 |
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| pleia2 | yeah, always has been | 19:28 |
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| pleia2 | that's it from me | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | yeah. i think we're not all on the same page about it. we probably glossed over something or forgot to write something down. but we'll talk about it when StevenK is up and fix it before we get too far down the road. | 19:28 |
| jeblair | i think we'll work it out and manage. :) | 19:29 |
| fungi | right. i mostly want to make sure we're not creating unnecessary makework for people | 19:29 |
| SpamapS | I just downloaded the dist.tar.gz to my trusty box, and it works w/ no additional steps | 19:29 |
| jeblair | pleia2: thanks! | 19:29 |
| SpamapS | Maven and java packaging are _incredibly_ hard to do up to Debian policy standards. | 19:29 |
| pleia2 | apparently it's a bit of a beast to package, so not doing it would be good I think | 19:29 |
| pleia2 | SpamapS: yeah | 19:29 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:29 | |
| fungi | i agree someone likely misunderstood the context in which the word "package" was thrown around | 19:29 |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 19:29 |
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| nibalizer | hi | 19:30 |
| asselin | hi | 19:30 |
| nibalizer | this is in flight https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162830/ | 19:30 |
| nibalizer | and this quietly merged: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162819/ | 19:30 |
| nibalizer | so if there are no objections ill put up ore patches to do what 162819 did to more node defs | 19:30 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: no objections here, thanks! | 19:31 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: you want a patch per node or a big doom patch or do you have a preference? | 19:31 |
| yolanda | so nibalizer,as we were talking, it should be good to isolate puppet install on a module, what do you think? | 19:31 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: patch per node to avoid conflicts and make it more reviewable would be best i think | 19:31 |
| jeblair | this is going to cause reviewer eye strain, so we should be nice :) | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: okay, i agree, just didn't want to flood the review queue unneccesarily | 19:32 |
| anteaya | +1 for reviewable | 19:32 |
| asselin | puppet-openstackci should be approved after today's tc meeting, then should be able to start submitting patches to that | 19:32 |
| jeblair | asselin: ++ | 19:32 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: it is flooded | 19:32 |
| nibalizer | yolanda: i want to land 162830 first but then yea spinning management of pupepet files/master/service out into a module is a great idea | 19:32 |
| yolanda | i'm ok to take it as it's part of my efforts downstream as well | 19:33 |
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| jeblair | yolanda: i'm not sure i'm following your suggestion | 19:33 |
| yolanda | jeblair, so basically, isolate the part of the template about "break this into openstack_project::puppet" into an independent module | 19:33 |
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| yolanda | as it's adding logic, that shouldn't be on system-config | 19:34 |
| nibalizer | if cores could please review 162830 that would be great, because the longer it lives unmerged the more rebasing everyone will have to do when it lands | 19:34 |
| jeblair | oh i see | 19:34 |
| jeblair | it's the bit that manages how we install+manage puppet itself | 19:34 |
| nibalizer | I am +1 on yolandas plan | 19:34 |
| jeblair | yeah, that sounds good to me | 19:35 |
| yolanda | jeblair, nibalizer, so if you are ok, i can propose a project for it and take ownership, i was planning to do it anyway downstream , so better if that's an upstream effort | 19:35 |
| mordred | I am a fan of that being more standalone | 19:35 |
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| jeblair | so, um, would the module name be "puppet-puppet" ? :) | 19:35 |
| nibalizer | yolanda: sure, also note that there are a few modules floating around github/forge that do exactly this -> manage puppet master/client configs so we could evaluate some of those if we wanted | 19:35 |
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| yolanda | nibalizer, sure, i can take a look at them | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | i dont have any links handy | 19:36 |
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| nibalizer | jeblair: probably | 19:36 |
| yolanda | if they are ok for us we could reuse | 19:36 |
| jeblair | #action yolanda investigate existing or creating a new puppet-puppet module | 19:36 |
| yolanda | puppet-install_puppet? | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: i actually want to name my next puppet-puppet module 'diphosphorous' | 19:36 |
| anteaya | nibalizer: creative | 19:36 |
| nibalizer | anyways thats all I got | 19:36 |
| jeblair | nibalizer: pp. kk. | 19:37 |
| jeblair | thanks! | 19:37 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) | 19:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Askbot migration) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:37 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:askbot-site,n,z | 19:37 |
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| jeblair | fungi: i think you spun up a server, yeah? | 19:38 |
| fungi | the test server is running with a data import from the 15th | 19:38 |
| fungi | i've vetted and updated the migration instructions | 19:38 |
| fungi | preliminary testing with the new server suggest it's working fine, but mrmartin (who said he's unavailable for today's meeting) wants to put it through it's paces for a couple weeks before we schedule any maintenance to swap them | 19:39 |
| jeblair | okay, so we're waiting on an okay from him before we proceed | 19:39 |
| fungi | yep | 19:39 |
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| fungi | and looks like the instructions just got approved | 19:39 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/160693 | 19:39 |
| fungi | for the curious | 19:39 |
| jeblair | #info replacement server is available for testing; waiting on okay from mrmartin to proceed | 19:40 |
| jeblair | #action mrmartin test new ask server and advise on when to proceed with migration | 19:40 |
| jeblair | fungi: thanks! | 19:40 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) | 19:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:40 | |
| jeblair | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+topic:gerrit-upgrade,n,z | 19:40 |
| jeblair | so i think we scheduled the server/OS move for this weekend? | 19:41 |
| anteaya | March 21 | 19:41 |
| jeblair | is that correct? | 19:41 |
| fungi | that is this weekend, yes | 19:41 |
| fungi | saturday in fact | 19:41 |
| anteaya | did we say a time? | 19:41 |
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| zaro | i just found a bug that needs a fix. #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165145/ | 19:41 |
| fungi | unless there was a follow-up announcement i missed while vacationing, i think we have not set a time yet | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | so let's do that now | 19:42 |
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| fungi | so should probably give the -dev ml a heads up about the time as usual, but also anyone we already notified about the ip address change | 19:42 |
| zaro | morning would be better for me | 19:42 |
| anteaya | here is the post: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-February/056508.html | 19:43 |
| jeblair | how about 1500 utc? | 19:43 |
| pleia2 | thanks anteaya | 19:43 |
| fungi | i'm cool with pdt morning (which will be edt ~lunchtime or early afternoon for me) | 19:43 |
| anteaya | np | 19:43 |
| fungi | 1500utc wfm | 19:43 |
| anteaya | anytime that works for west coast folks | 19:43 |
| zaro | yep, wfm | 19:44 |
| jeblair | who's going to be around for this? | 19:44 |
| anteaya | o/ | 19:44 |
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| jeblair | o/ | 19:44 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:44 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:44 |
| jeblair | so we have 3 roots | 19:45 |
| anteaya | clarkb sounded like he would be around too | 19:45 |
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| mordred | o/ | 19:45 |
| anteaya | last time we talked about it | 19:45 |
| * fungi for sure | 19:45 | |
| jeblair | cool, i think we have more than enough then | 19:45 |
| mordred | (sorry, I'm free) | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | and everyone is okay with 1500 | 19:45 |
| jeblair | so... | 19:45 |
| fungi | yeah, we have way more people than we need on hand for it, so we're set | 19:45 |
| jeblair | #agreed maintenance starts at 1500 utc march 21 | 19:46 |
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| jeblair | i'll send an announcement | 19:46 |
| pleia2 | great | 19:46 |
| anteaya | on the topic of dates | 19:46 |
| zaro | again, i think that change i linked early should be in before trusty upgrade. | 19:46 |
| jeblair | #action jeblair send follow up announcement with time | 19:46 |
| anteaya | the agenda says the gerrit upgrade is April 10 but last meeting we agreed to May 9 | 19:47 |
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| anteaya | AGREED: Gerrit 2.9 upgrade Saturday May 9, 2015 (jeblair, 19:49:54) | 19:47 |
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| jeblair | zaro: thanks -- please keep an eye on that and make sure it merges before saturday :) | 19:47 |
| jeblair | zaro: any other changes that need to happen before then? | 19:47 |
| zaro | no | 19:47 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yes, i'm bad about updating the agenda. may 9 is really it; the date should just be removed from the agenda | 19:48 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: ah okay, just wanted to make sure we were clear | 19:48 |
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| jeblair | anteaya: thanks | 19:48 |
| anteaya | thank you | 19:48 |
| jeblair | zaro: anything else? i figure next week we can make sure we have all the changes we need for the gerrit upgrade lined up. | 19:49 |
| zaro | nope, ready to go. | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | #topic IRC policy | 19:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "IRC policy (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:49 | |
| jeblair | sorry, i forgot to add this to the agenda | 19:49 |
| jeblair | but really quickly, the irc policy governance change merged | 19:49 |
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| jeblair | so now we should make sure all channels are logged | 19:50 |
| fungi | so we need to add a lot more channels to eavesdrop | 19:50 |
| fungi | .pp | 19:50 |
| jeblair | yeah, so two things about that: | 19:50 |
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| anteaya | do we have a canonical list of channels? | 19:50 |
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| jeblair | 1) we should mass-add a bunch in one go | 19:50 |
| jeblair | 2) i should write up a spec for how to refactor our irc stuff to make this less insane | 19:51 |
| jeblair | i will try to do that by next week | 19:51 |
| fungi | yep, avoid disrupting meetings by having lots of little additions | 19:51 |
| fungi | does the resolution say how we identify what constitutes an official project channel? | 19:51 |
| pleia2 | I think we also need to check foundership on all the channels too | 19:51 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: ++ move the eavesdrop stuff to project-confg ? | 19:51 |
| jeblair | it's been a back-burner item for me for a while, but i think this increases the priority | 19:51 |
| SpamapS | Insane Relay Chat | 19:51 |
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| jeblair | nibalizer: yeah, that's part of the problem that needs solving | 19:51 |
| fungi | SpamapS: i think you misspelled "inane" | 19:51 |
| jeblair | so i wrote the policy to say "openstack related channels" | 19:52 |
| jeblair | i interpret that to mean any channel we officially do anything in | 19:52 |
| ttx | I think as long as a channel is mostly about an openstack project, it qualifies | 19:52 |
| anteaya | #rdo channels? | 19:52 |
| ttx | like #openstack-$PROJECT | 19:52 |
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| ttx | RDO is not an openstack project team, it's a distro team | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | so i further think that means "anything in accessbot should be logged, and we should do nothing in any channel without it being in accessbot" | 19:53 |
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| anteaya | it came up | 19:53 |
| ttx | when I say "openstack project" I mean openstack project team in the governance sense | 19:53 |
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| mordred | ttx: #rdo would like to participate in our bots | 19:53 |
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| jeblair | if it's not an openstack-related channel, then we shouldn't be in it | 19:53 |
| mordred | ttx: there is consternation as to whether or not that should be allowed | 19:53 |
| ttx | mordred: freeriders! | 19:53 |
| anteaya | me too but someone wants bots in #rdo-puppet | 19:53 |
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| fungi | yeah, they want gerritbot announcing changes for stuff in #rdo | 19:53 |
| jeblair | i don't know whether "#rdo-puppet" is an openstack-related channel | 19:54 |
| rbowen | It is. | 19:54 |
| ttx | do we have bots in stackforge channels ? | 19:54 |
| fungi | we do | 19:54 |
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| jeblair | ttx: yes; stackforge projects are related to openstack | 19:54 |
| rbowen | It's for discussion of the puppet modules around the RDO distribution. | 19:54 |
| ttx | I would consider those external to the openstack policy | 19:54 |
| mordred | well, rdo is a disto of openstack - they're everybit as much a part of our community as the folks working on vmware or hyperv drivers | 19:54 |
| jeblair | ttx: the TC created stackforge | 19:54 |
| rbowen | It's a community project, with participation from multiple organizations - it's not *just* a redhat project. It's part of the OpenStack community, imo | 19:55 |
| ttx | sure, my point is that with biugtent we have a definition of what is an openstack thing and what is not | 19:55 |
| jeblair | ttx: yes, but we're not fully there yet | 19:55 |
| jeblair | ttx: it would be premature to cut off stackforge from that considering that we have not asked stackforge projects to move yet | 19:55 |
| ttx | seems simpler to enforce IRC policy to "openstack projects" since we have a definition for that | 19:55 |
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| mordred | ttx: I dont' see what that gets us though | 19:56 |
| ttx | not saying we should deny bots to friends | 19:56 |
| mordred | oh - wait | 19:56 |
| mordred | I may understand what your'e saying | 19:56 |
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| SpamapS | This kind of sounds like something where the TC should be asked for more guidance? | 19:56 |
| anteaya | any chance we can come back to this discussion? I'd like folks to at least look at suggested scalable election tools | 19:56 |
| mordred | you're saying only _Force_ appying the policy to openstack projects | 19:56 |
| mordred | not that yo uthink we should exclude people who are not openstack projects | 19:56 |
| ttx | If #rdo-* doesn't want stuff logged, I think we should accept that (not that they are asking that) | 19:56 |
| russellb | mordred: +1 | 19:56 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 19:56 |
| ttx | mordred: exactly | 19:56 |
| mordred | anteaya: ooh, scalable election tools? | 19:57 |
| anteaya | I'm trying | 19:57 |
| * mordred wants to know about those | 19:57 | |
| pleia2 | there's an etherpad! | 19:57 |
| jeblair | i don't think our bots belong in those channels then | 19:57 |
| anteaya | we haven't changed topics | 19:57 |
| jeblair | i think our irc policy sholud be consistent | 19:57 |
| anteaya | jeblair: ++ | 19:57 |
| ttx | jeblair: you could say "bots only go to channels that follow IRC policy", I guess. | 19:57 |
| jeblair | and i intentiolly wrote the resolution to say openstack-related channnels to include stackforge projects | 19:58 |
| jeblair | because i think they generally want to be part of this community | 19:58 |
| ttx | jeblair: those projects did not submit to TC oversight, so you can't force them to anything. I guess you can force them in exchange for bot service | 19:58 |
| tristanC | About elections tools, the idea to get candidacy as a change, and confirmation as approval from election officials sounds very cool | 19:58 |
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| anteaya | tristanC: we haven't changed topics | 19:58 |
| jeblair | ttx: correct, we can make it a condition of bot service | 19:58 |
| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 19:59 |
| ttx | jeblair: that works for me | 19:59 |
| rbowen | ttx: We don't mind having #rdo and/or #rdo-puppet logged. Could be useful. | 19:59 |
| mordred | and I think that's fair | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | but we're about to change meetings.... | 19:59 |
| rbowen | So, whichever way that goes is fine. | 19:59 |
| fungi | yeah, if we treat all channels equally regardless of official status, then we can have one canonical list of channels we configure our bots to join | 19:59 |
| ttx | rbowen: I think #rdo* is the wrong example :) | 19:59 |
| SpamapS | to the very meeting where this topic belongs. ;) | 19:59 |
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| mordred | SpamapS: bah - it'll be a year before we get to this topic in the next meeting | 19:59 |
| jeblair | tristanC: I'm sorry we didn't get to that topic. i did not expect this to be controversial. | 19:59 |
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| SpamapS | mordred: status quo ftw | 19:59 |
| jeblair | thanks all | 20:00 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 20:00:14 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-17-19.01.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-17-19.01.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-03-17-19.01.log.html | 20:00 |
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| ttx | russellb, jgriffith, annegentle, mikal, mordred, devananda, vishy, markmcclain, jeblair, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann : around ? | 20:00 |
| jeblair | ttx: yes | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:00 |
| jgriffith | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | I think annegentle and jaypipes won't be with us | 20:00 |
| vishy | o/ | 20:00 |
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| ttx | we have quorum | 20:01 |
| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 20:01:04 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| mordred | o/ | 20:01 |
| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| mikal | Hi | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic (Final) Final rubberstamping of "Cross-Project spec to eliminate SQL Schema Downgrades" | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "(Final) Final rubberstamping of "Cross-Project spec to eliminate SQL Schema Downgrades" (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/152337/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | That was pending on the Ops Meetup and we got a clear go-ahead there | 20:01 |
| ttx | So unless someone violently opposes now, I'll consider there is consensus on this one and final-approve it now | 20:02 |
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| sdague | +1 for final approve | 20:02 |
| mordred | ttx: what if I'm just violent? | 20:02 |
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| devananda | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | mordred: you do have a history of violence | 20:02 |
| russellb | glad this is a virtual meeting then | 20:03 |
| * dhellmann sits back from the screen | 20:03 | |
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| ttx | last 10 seconds to register your +2 if you want it in | 20:03 |
| ttx | approved | 20:03 |
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| ttx | #topic Tags | 20:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tags (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:03 | |
| ttx | * Definition of the release:* tags (https://review.openstack.org/157322) | 20:03 |
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| ttx | Looks like there is no opposition anymore on those, so it would be great if we could gather some approvals and move on | 20:03 |
| ttx | dhellmann and devananda +1ed an earlier version of the proposal | 20:04 |
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| devananda | ttx: you removed the deprecation section? | 20:04 |
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| ttx | devananda: yes, since there were no deprecation rules | 20:04 |
| ttx | and my wording there was confusing anne | 20:05 |
| devananda | *nod* | 20:05 |
| * devananda reapplies +1 | 20:05 | |
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| * dhellmann ditto | 20:05 | |
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| ttx | While you vote, moving on to next topic | 20:05 |
| ttx | * Next WIP tags (http://ttx.re/facets-of-the-integrated-release.html) (https://review.openstack.org/163851) (https://review.openstack.org/163236) | 20:05 |
| ttx | There are several other tags being worked on | 20:05 |
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| ttx | russellb works on a "team:diverse-affiliation" tag at https://review.openstack.org/163851 | 20:06 |
| ttx | russellb: how is that going ? | 20:06 |
| russellb | fine, the feedback so far is positive, but just from a few folks | 20:06 |
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| russellb | there's a few things to integrate, including your suggestion of adding a core reviewer diversity requirement | 20:06 |
| ttx | need more reviews before proposing final patchset ? | 20:06 |
| devananda | russellb: core diversity ++ | 20:07 |
| sdague | russellb: have you considered categorizing git trees instead of program groups? | 20:07 |
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| russellb | sdague: that was another thing ttx brought up | 20:07 |
| ttx | sdague: I can see value in both approaches | 20:07 |
| russellb | since tags apply to projects ... i was proposing the tag is based on the overall diversity of the repos the team looks after | 20:07 |
| jeblair | has anyone run the heuristic on existing key projects? | 20:07 |
| ttx | jeblair: it's in the patch iirc | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | russellb: that seems valid to me | 20:08 |
| russellb | jeblair: i did a pass in the existing proposal, yeah | 20:08 |
| russellb | not using proposed changes (like core team) | 20:08 |
| russellb | i scripted it after doing it manually once, heh | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I like it by the way, even moreso with the core add | 20:08 |
| jeblair | hah, it was _just_ below the point to which i had scrolled, sorry. | 20:08 |
| devananda | speaking for ironic, we have several repos in the project that have very different contributor diversity than the main server tree, or the group taken as a whole | 20:08 |
| ttx | but then it's also about fragility, and a repo which has just one company looking after it is more brittle | 20:08 |
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| russellb | ttx: but a less active repo would be easier to save | 20:08 |
| jgriffith | ttx: I'm mixed on what i think the tag "means" but regardless | 20:09 |
| russellb | so overall diversity a better indication of overall health, i think | 20:09 |
| ttx | If you take a project team like iNfra, projects under it have a very different story | 20:09 |
| russellb | ttx: yes, that's a good counter example | 20:09 |
| russellb | not sure that's the case for any other team | 20:09 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I don't know if I'd agree, kinda think that should be left to other stats | 20:09 |
| devananda | I would suspect that oslo also has less diversity within some of the individual libraries | 20:09 |
| sdague | ttx: right, echoing a thing vishy said previously, oslo.messaging is a good instance of something which is very important but seems to not have many folks engaged on it, and I think that gets hidden if we lump all of oslo together | 20:09 |
| russellb | jgriffith: not embedding that into the tag definition | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | russellb: this is an example of a tag that looks useful, but is so easy to find from stackalytics that I wonder if we actually need to keep track of it manually? | 20:09 |
| russellb | dhellmann: we could expand that to abandoning this entire catalog | 20:10 |
| dhellmann | russellb: now you're talking | 20:10 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's not that easy to find. If you combine commits/contributors/core stats | 20:10 |
| russellb | either there's value in making it easier to figure all this out | 20:10 |
| russellb | or not | 20:10 |
| russellb | i think there is | 20:10 |
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| zaneb | I think projects themselves are capable of handling non-diversity issues on their own repos (in the worst case by voting them off the island) | 20:10 |
| russellb | if people want to abandon the whole catalog, then i would question whether the proposed governance change is the right direction at all | 20:10 |
| russellb | but anyway ... | 20:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann: but then I expect some tags to be generated automatically (something like the requirements bot) | 20:11 |
| devananda | russellb: it's also prone to rapid fluctuations which may not reflect the project's usefulness, particularly in smaller trees | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | russellb: so let's build a page that pulls the data live, and let that be the info we show. Why track it manually? | 20:11 |
| fungi | ttx: russellb: keep in mind that all the openstack-infra projects' core groups have infra-core included in them | 20:11 |
| fungi | which brings back the diversity | 20:11 |
| zaneb | so it makes more sense to me for the TC to be looking at projects as a whole | 20:11 |
| russellb | dhellmann: in the proposal i said it should be automated | 20:11 |
| ttx | fungi: I know some projects that this won't save | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ok, I haven't hit the bottom yet, sorry | 20:11 |
| devananda | russellb: I think diversity of core team is a useful tag, and diversity of reviews and/or contribution to a project group overall is also useful | 20:11 |
| russellb | devananda: separate? | 20:11 |
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| devananda | russellb: as a contributor, the "core diversity" tells me how likely my contributions are to be respected // or inversely if t's just one company running the show | 20:12 |
| ttx | Now that I've spiked your interest, I think the discussion should move to the review | 20:12 |
| jeblair | russellb, dhellmann: i think it is important to _surface_ this information; i agree with dhellman that it seems we are moving information from one system of record to another. | 20:12 |
| devananda | russellb: as an operator, it tells me how likely this project is to die if one company pulls out | 20:12 |
| ttx | since we have a lot of ground to cover in meeting today | 20:12 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: you said it better than I did | 20:12 |
| mordred | and as a consumer, how likely I'm going to be in trouble if obe company makes a shift in intent | 20:12 |
| russellb | ttx: sounds good | 20:12 |
| devananda | russellb: but breaking down to individual git trees is far less useful to me in either csae | 20:12 |
| mordred | one | 20:12 |
| sdague | devananda: more than the review / contrib stats? | 20:12 |
| mordred | devananda: yeah | 20:12 |
| * mordred lets devananda speak more | 20:12 | |
| ttx | please continue discussion on the review | 20:12 |
| lifeless | devananda: it doesn't really... it just gives a data point | 20:12 |
| sdague | the actually core team membership seems less relevant to me than core team actions | 20:12 |
| devananda | while I can get that info from the various authoritative sources if i really want, eg. gerrit or git log | 20:13 |
| ttx | devenanda works on role tags, which are a bit of an opinionated taxonomy | 20:13 |
| ttx | that said from the feedback at the Ops Meetup, those are badly needed | 20:13 |
| devananda | I do think having documentation of it is helpful toour downstream consumers | 20:13 |
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| ttx | There is room for other tags to be worked on | 20:13 |
| devananda | sdague: also, that. glance is a good example ... | 20:13 |
| ttx | For those who want to help, I described the various facets of the integrated-release comboconcept that we might want to independently describe as tags at | 20:13 |
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| ttx | #link http://ttx.re/facets-of-the-integrated-release.html | 20:13 |
| mordred | I think what the TC woudl be vetting in this case is that the automated tag does reflect the data it says it reflects, yeah? | 20:13 |
| russellb | i'm in favor of opinionated tags personally :) | 20:13 |
| ttx | - Release model is now covered | 20:13 |
| mordred | russellb: ++ | 20:13 |
| ttx | - Co-gating is likely to emerge from sdague's work at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/150653/ | 20:13 |
| russellb | being opinionated is where we can actually add value | 20:14 |
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| devananda | ttx: I was hoping to get back to that proposal more last week, but have been consumed by kilo-3 // feature freeze | 20:14 |
| ttx | - Supported-by should be proposed by all horizontal teams, to clarify what they actually support (defaults to "all") | 20:14 |
| russellb | if we're not opinionated *at all*, i don't know what our point of existence is anymore | 20:14 |
| ttx | russellb: ++ | 20:14 |
| devananda | russellb: ++ | 20:14 |
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| ttx | - Stability should probably be expressed as opt-in feature/API deprecation contracts, I plan to work on that unless someone beats me to it | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | russellb: ++ | 20:14 |
| ttx | - For maturity, we now have an ops workgroup planning to work on that | 20:14 |
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| ttx | So feel free to help in any of those areas | 20:14 |
| * russellb is very happy to see ++ on that, wasn't sure honestly ... | 20:14 | |
| sparkycollier | existentialist russellb | 20:15 |
| russellb | ttx: good write-up | 20:15 |
| ttx | russellb: but then jay is not around | 20:15 |
| * mordred hands russellb a fluffy llama | 20:15 | |
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| devananda | if anyone wants to take a stab at adding more role / usecase tags on top of my proposal, I wont object. otherwise, I will try to get to it in the next week | 20:15 |
| ttx | Which leads us to the next question | 20:15 |
| ttx | * Moving tags to a separate project-catalog repository | 20:15 |
| ttx | Once we have bootstrapped this framework, I think it should move to its own repository and be maintained by a specific team of people | 20:15 |
| mikal | What is the value in that? | 20:16 |
| russellb | i'm torn on this | 20:16 |
| ttx | A team interested in documenting project attributes | 20:16 |
| ttx | Because this is closer to documentation/reporting than to governance | 20:16 |
| mikal | Isn't that the TC? | 20:16 |
| russellb | partly because having it all together is convenient | 20:16 |
| russellb | and also because of the point i just made about being opinionated | 20:16 |
| russellb | and the importance of still being opinionated at times | 20:16 |
| russellb | it's not just a trivial task to pass off | 20:16 |
| mikal | I agree | 20:16 |
| russellb | if it is, again, our value is pretty minimal | 20:16 |
| ttx | well, that's about "stepping out of the way" I guess, and focusing on more critical tasks | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | most of the tags proposed so far are objective enough that there's no "opinion" involved | 20:16 |
| mikal | But also, its super important, so we should be shy about delegating it | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | we should keep things like whether we consider a project official, and whether we want the board to let them use the trademark. The rest of this is just "tell me what openstack is" documentation. | 20:17 |
| devananda | i did a bunch of thinking about this when I wrote up the roles / use cases tags ... | 20:17 |
| mikal | ttx: there's nothing stopping a community member from proposing a tag now... | 20:17 |
| russellb | it kind of comes back to, what tags actually exist | 20:17 |
| mikal | ttx: so how are we "in the way" at the moment? | 20:17 |
| jbryce | ttx: i would think that even if the tc coordinates the efforts, they can still allow tags and input from other groups like ops/user committtee | 20:17 |
| ttx | mikal: I fear we spend all of our time rubberstamping stuff | 20:17 |
| devananda | I think by defining the set of tags ,what the criteria are, we're creating a policy | 20:17 |
| devananda | that's our governance | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | devananda: so we govern through taxonomy? :-( | 20:18 |
| jeblair | so maybe we should keep it in governance until we find we're just rubberstamping all the time and deal with it then | 20:18 |
| ttx | we'll spend a lot of time approving tag changes | 20:18 |
| devananda | some of the tags are just informational, and could be delegated to automation | 20:18 |
| ttx | jeblair: good point | 20:18 |
| devananda | some will be opt-in, and the PTLs can self apply them | 20:18 |
| jeblair | right now at least, i think the discussion around them is still useful | 20:18 |
| devananda | and some may well be set by other teams (like docs-supported, required-by-nova, or what ever) | 20:18 |
| sdague | yeh, I'm fine with keeping them in tree for now. Later migration can always be contemplated | 20:18 |
| russellb | could differentiate between tags that are obvious and don't need a full vote, vs. ones that are opinionated and need actual discussion and vote | 20:18 |
| ttx | I heard some feedback that nobody should touch tags because it's a TC thing | 20:18 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: we have several cross project specs that this group needs to approve. We're spending way way more time on tags than those technical issues. | 20:19 |
| devananda | the TC is still the arbiter if three's a disagreement, but we dont need to apply every single tag with a majority vote | 20:19 |
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| ttx | so we need to better communicate how open the process is | 20:19 |
| anteaya | there are some decisions asked of project-config reviewers that belong in the tc | 20:19 |
| anteaya | as a project-config reviewer I am for keeping these decisions with the tc, re: tags | 20:19 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: yeah, i could see us getting there; i'm just not sure we're there yet | 20:19 |
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| ttx | It may be too early to spin it off | 20:19 |
| russellb | we haven't approved any tags yet :) | 20:19 |
| ttx | russellb: I can fix that now | 20:20 |
| russellb | so yeah, i think revisiting in a few months would be good | 20:20 |
| mordred | russellb: yup. we're approving too many of them | 20:20 |
| mordred | russellb: :) | 20:20 |
| devananda | ttx: in addition to better communication, I think we need to accept that there is a 6 to 12 month communication lag | 20:20 |
| russellb | mordred: not sure what you mean | 20:20 |
| mordred | russellb: me either- I was going for a droll joke, but it did not work | 20:20 |
| russellb | mordred: ok! | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | maybe when we're together in person someone will be able to explain why we're so excited about tags. They still feel like mostly a waste of this group's time. | 20:20 |
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| dhellmann | but I'll stop harping on it, I guess | 20:21 |
| devananda | ttx: short of a keynote at the summit (or something similarly monumental) it's going to take a LONG TIME for these sorts of changes to trickle down to all the operators, driver contributors, etc | 20:21 |
| russellb | and *that* is why i'm hesitant to approve projects | 20:21 |
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| russellb | we disagree on such fundamental things about this governance change | 20:21 |
| devananda | ttx: so the kind of participation that I think we need for this to work will not happen overnight | 20:21 |
| russellb | that i'm not convinced anymore we're in the right direction at all | 20:21 |
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| jbryce | devananda: come to day 2 in vancouver = ) | 20:21 |
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| devananda | jbryce: ;) | 20:21 |
| mordred | russellb: I thnk the two are completely orthogonal - but that might be derailing this | 20:21 |
| ttx | OK, let's keep it in governance for the time being | 20:22 |
| mikal | russellb: so do we need a plan to get in sync again? If so, what is it? | 20:22 |
| jbryce | and day 1 actually as well. but we have to have something understandable to present | 20:22 |
| russellb | mikal: i don't know ... maybe we should all write a bunch of blog posts :-p | 20:22 |
| mikal | russellb: sigh | 20:22 |
| ttx | NOOOO not again | 20:22 |
| devananda | russellb: that's definitely the right thing .... | 20:22 |
| russellb | ttx just wrote one! | 20:23 |
| mordred | I think maybe big tent was the wrong choice, and it should have been big yurt | 20:23 |
| devananda | so, really, perhaps an etherpad where we just get a sense of who agrees/disagrees on what | 20:23 |
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| lifeless | communication is important... not sure that a mass of blog posts is that | 20:23 |
| jbryce | is there a single authoritative document that explains what the new structure is? | 20:23 |
| ttx | devananda: I'm tryin g to keep tabs on that | 20:23 |
| sparkycollier | +1 to big yurt | 20:23 |
| russellb | lifeless: right, i was mostly kidding | 20:23 |
| devananda | then we set up some higher bandwidth disucssions to facilitate sorting that out | 20:23 |
| ttx | jbryce: yes | 20:23 |
| jeblair | http://governance.openstack.org/resolutions/20141202-project-structure-reform-spec.html | 20:23 |
| russellb | we got some negative feedback about high bandwidth sessions we had on this before | 20:24 |
| ttx | devananda: the spin-off disucssion was triggered with several discussions I had with dhellmann | 20:24 |
| anteaya | devananda: I think the question is what higher bandwidth | 20:24 |
| devananda | we did some video calls at the beginning of the big tent discussions | 20:24 |
| russellb | fwiw | 20:24 |
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| russellb | or i did anyway | 20:24 |
| lifeless | russellb: clique concerns? | 20:24 |
| russellb | yes | 20:24 |
| devananda | russellb: I'm aware of that, and I can't for the life of me understand why | 20:24 |
| russellb | and the fact that they weren't open, just etherpad notes | 20:24 |
| dhellmann | it's a bit sparse, but here's a skeleton "product guide" repo I set up while talking with ttx about spinning this stuff out: https://github.com/dhellmann/openstack-product-catalog/tree/master/doc/source | 20:24 |
| devananda | I mean, people talk to each other. some times the medium gets in the way of actually sharing understanding and we need to use a different medium | 20:25 |
| anteaya | the problem is we are so afraid of being accused of not open we can't get teh time to talk and understand each other | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | russellb: we might have to live with people seeing documentation after the fact if we want to resolve some of these bigger questions | 20:25 |
| mikal | Could we lock ourselves in a room before the summit and talk it through? | 20:25 |
| russellb | don' | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | mikal: ++ | 20:25 |
| anteaya | there is so much noise we can't hear each other, or even ourselves | 20:25 |
| mikal | The morning before the board meeting perhaps? | 20:25 |
| devananda | if I have to fly somewhere to talk with someone in person, because we just can't sort it out on the phone .... I mean, that's lame, but I do it. | 20:25 |
| russellb | i don't want to wait until summit | 20:25 |
| jbryce | ttx: thanks. i’ve actually followed these changes and that is another link i hadn’t seen yet. i think that’s really a big piece of the confusion out there is people have gotten bits and pieces from a mailing list thread here, an irc log there, a blog post on the other side | 20:25 |
| russellb | that's such a bad habit in openstack, heh | 20:25 |
| devananda | I think we can't wait until the summit, frankly | 20:25 |
| devananda | because we need clear signalling (eg, to jbryce ) before then | 20:26 |
| ttx | jbryce: the blog posts were all referencing the reference document (which was the spec) | 20:26 |
| Rockyg | jbryce: ++ | 20:26 |
| ttx | you should click links more :) | 20:26 |
| Rockyg | tfm links | 20:27 |
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| ttx | So, about syncing... The thing is, every time I speak with someone supposedly disagreeing, they are actually not disagreeing | 20:27 |
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| ttx | so it's more unfamiliarity than disagreement | 20:27 |
| mikal | ttx: that's an indicator we need to talk more I think | 20:27 |
| mordred | I agree with that | 20:27 |
| mordred | I have had the same experience | 20:27 |
| ttx | mikal: I think you should move to Europe | 20:27 |
| devananda | dhellmann: when we talked about a week ago, IIRC the only thing you disagreed on was where the tags are hosted, which boiled down to whether or not the TC should be governing them | 20:28 |
| devananda | or s/governing/required to vote on/ | 20:28 |
| russellb | i also worry that if we have a hard time understanding things among each other, good luck to the rest of the world | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | Don't talk. Post the doc on the front webpage of os.org | 20:28 |
| jbryce | russellb: exactly | 20:28 |
| mordred | Rockyg: we don't control that | 20:28 |
| zaneb | devananda: what has actually changed? there were a bunch of projects (including user-facing ReST APIs) that weren't incubated of integrated in the openstack/ namespace before, and soon there'll be a few more... | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | devananda: so far, 99% of the tags I have seen proposed are characteristics I would expect a product documentation team to be using to describe products. We're not a product documentation team. | 20:28 |
| Rockyg | mordred: if we asked nicely? | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | devananda: the only 2 tags so far that don't meet that criteria are "is it an official project" and "should it use the trademark" | 20:29 |
| zaneb | likewise, we had a bunch of integrated projects before, and now we have an integrated tag. no change (yet) | 20:29 |
| russellb | dhellmann: i went after low hanging fruit, since it was proposed as a base requirement to start with ... | 20:29 |
| ttx | The only clear disagreement I heard was Doug thinking we the TC should get out of the product description business | 20:29 |
| ttx | Any other disagreement ? | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | russellb: right, and I think we all got tied up in the fact that Jay's blog post talked about tags and governance changes, but I don't think they're actually related at all | 20:29 |
| anteaya | Rockyg: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-org | 20:29 |
| russellb | dhellmann: i think some think it's related and others don't | 20:29 |
| Rockyg | anteaya: Thanks;-) | 20:29 |
| russellb | depends if you think tags are purely objective, or whether they're a means of providing more detailed opinions and guidance as well | 20:30 |
| russellb | i think.. | 20:30 |
| ttx | dhellmann: and the spec clearly presents them as separate efforts | 20:30 |
| * russellb tied them together | 20:30 | |
| jbryce | Rockyg mordred: we have been working on an update plan for openstack.org to cover these changes, but to be honest it’s been hard to even wrap my head around it and get a fully consistent description of it from the people i’ve talked to. | 20:30 |
| russellb | ttx: 2 points in the same spec though | 20:30 |
| ttx | We had a problem and took two efforts to solve it | 20:30 |
| ttx | (expand and focus) | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | russellb: sure, the guidance stuff is what I mean by product documentation though | 20:30 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I think I'm the only one who feels this way, and so I'm just going to shut up and let you get on with the meeting. | 20:31 |
| russellb | dhellmann: i feel like we're elected to be the ones to have opinions on behalf of openstack tech community, and communicate those | 20:31 |
| ttx | yay, no more disagreement, just a bit of confusion. | 20:31 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I'd agree with that | 20:31 |
| devananda | dhellmann: I'm probably misunderstanding you, because it sounds like you're saying the TC is not responsible for providing guidance about the projects that make up OpenStack... | 20:31 |
| anteaya | russellb: me too | 20:31 |
| Rockyg | sounds like a doc sprint is needed to thrash out the two separate efforts, how they interact, and the vision thing, along with the spec. | 20:31 |
| devananda | russellb: yup | 20:31 |
| zaneb | I think tags should be about guiding the project as to what the TC expects of them, rather than a 1-bit replacement for documentation | 20:31 |
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| devananda | zaneb: yes | 20:32 |
| russellb | and to me, the tags thing was the new framework we were setting up for us to communicate those opinions | 20:32 |
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| dhellmann | devananda: You are. We decide what projects are "in" the tent. After that, the entire community is responsible for properly documenting what we're building. | 20:32 |
| ttx | OK everyone, I'd like us to focus back on the agenda | 20:32 |
| * russellb sits down | 20:32 | |
| dhellmann | zaneb: OK, that's not how they're being presented. | 20:32 |
| devananda | so that's what I meant earlier by we govern through creating tags and delegating the application of tags to the appropriate trusted / responsible parties | 20:32 |
| ttx | and move to the next (related) topic | 20:32 |
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| jgriffith | sigh.. I was going to say something profound | 20:32 |
| ttx | jgriffith: bad timing | 20:32 |
| * annegentle is here, listening. Nothing profound about docs here. | 20:32 | |
| * russellb takes it to a blog post | 20:32 | |
| russellb | :-p | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | ttx: :) | 20:32 |
| devananda | russellb: heh | 20:32 |
| sparkycollier | +1 to devananda | 20:33 |
| ttx | +1 to devananda too | 20:33 |
| * devananda sits down as well, lets ttx continue with agenda | 20:33 | |
| ttx | (to end this discussion, I really think we are not very far away, and just need to talk more about it) | 20:33 |
| ttx | far from each other I mean | 20:33 |
| ttx | #topic New project teams additions | 20:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "New project teams additions (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:33 | |
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| ttx | * Freezing or slowly considering (http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-March/058689.html) | 20:33 |
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| ttx | So I think it's pretty critical *not* to freeze the process, otherwise we won't make any progress in the next 3 months | 20:34 |
| ttx | Looks like most people on the thread agreed to slowly consider new project team additions, rather than freezing | 20:34 |
| ttx | We should go slowly enough so that we can refine rules as we go | 20:34 |
| russellb | i think we're making progress for the sake of making progress, even though there's a lot of confusion and potentially disagreement | 20:34 |
| ttx | on the project team addition side ? | 20:34 |
| russellb | yes | 20:35 |
| ttx | what disagreement is there there ? | 20:35 |
| jgriffith | russellb: I'd kind of agree, I don't see what it matters if new projects sit for a few months or not | 20:35 |
| russellb | but it goes back to different views on what the tag part of the spec means, how important it is, what things are included | 20:35 |
| * ttx doesn't see any patch proposed to the new-projects-requirements | 20:35 | |
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| * russellb sighs | 20:35 | |
| ttx | That said, it's worth noting that the requirements as stated are base requirements we all agree on | 20:35 |
| russellb | i think we've half implemented our spec is all | 20:35 |
| jeblair | i think evaluating the new additions is helping us see the system at work and understand what works and where we have disagreement. therefore, i think making slow progress should be our goal for the next little while. | 20:35 |
| ttx | but we always retain our ability to arbitrarily reject projects -- that is also why we were elected: to make the right call when needed | 20:36 |
| jbryce | russellb: i agree that there’s some confusion and when i’ve watched the last few tc meetings it seems like different people have a different opinion of what has been agreed to | 20:36 |
| russellb | jbryce: that's my objection, yes | 20:36 |
| russellb | i wish i had a clear way to fix it up | 20:36 |
| jbryce | i also think working through it slowly to bootstrap it could provide concrete examples of what needs to be answered | 20:36 |
| russellb | maybe a clear date to tidy things up by | 20:36 |
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| mordred | I disagree with delaying project additions | 20:36 |
| mordred | categorically | 20:37 |
| devananda | russellb: "half implemented our spec" << yup, I agree | 20:37 |
| ttx | russellb: I think the spec is fully implemented. We added criteria for approving projects, and created a framework to describve projects | 20:37 |
| sdague | I'd agree with jeblair, in bound project consideration is kind of unit tests for whatever we're doing. I'm fine with going slow, but it seems like useful data. | 20:37 |
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| devananda | russellb: but folks are still looking to us the TC to bless projects, despite some confusion about this whole big tent thing | 20:37 |
| russellb | ttx: see, there's disagreement after all :) | 20:37 |
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| mordred | I think the only way we can get past people expecting us to bless projects | 20:37 |
| mordred | is to open the door | 20:37 |
| mordred | and stop blessing projects | 20:37 |
| devananda | if we add one or two projects, that's going to increase confusion, I think, because it loks like we will have blessed them | 20:37 |
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| ttx | russellb: the spec was never about "finishing tags" | 20:37 |
| ttx | russellb: heck, I know. I wrote it | 20:38 |
| russellb | we can't agree on low hanging fruit, much less things that are actually more useful original bits of information | 20:38 |
| jeblair | i think we should add 1, then 2, then 3, then a lot. | 20:38 |
| russellb | (tags that is) | 20:38 |
| mordred | by applying the criteria very broadly that we have agreed on | 20:38 |
| ttx | It was about setting criteria for new projects and set up a tag framework | 20:38 |
| devananda | OTOH if we rip off the bandaid and let in everything that meets our least common denominator, it's a very clear what we've just done | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | mordred: we are bound by the bylaws to bless projects for trademark use. Do you mean to apply that rule to that level of blessing as well? | 20:38 |
| jbryce | jeblair: yeah i kind of agree | 20:38 |
| russellb | in any case, i'll abstain on new projects, not -1 | 20:38 |
| * jogo finds it ironic we are weakening the openstack community software trademark while pushing hard for better commercial trademark usage, defcore | 20:38 | |
| mordred | dhellmann: I do not think that letting a project "in" carries any implication about the use of the trademark - that's what defcore is working on | 20:39 |
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| dhellmann | mordred: we are supposed to propose to the defcore committee which projects they consider, though, and so we're still a gatekeeper in that process. | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | we're just moving the gate | 20:39 |
| mordred | dhellmann: nor do I think it automatically confers in any of the documents I've see a suggestion from us to defcore or the board that we recommend these projects for trademark use | 20:39 |
| russellb | the "tc approved release" | 20:39 |
| mordred | I believe us "approving" projects has no bearing on that whatsoever | 20:40 |
| devananda | that said, i would like us to have a tag system in place before we rip off the bandaid. | 20:40 |
| mordred | I do not | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | mordred: I'll have to find it, but I do remember that being our responsibility to suggest which of *all* of the projects should be included in any trademark policy. | 20:40 |
| russellb | is the base they work from, in the updatedd bylaws | 20:40 |
| russellb | iirc | 20:40 |
| ttx | OK, let's focus on agenda again -- do we need a vote between freezing and slowly considering ? | 20:40 |
| mordred | I do not want to wait for a tag system for us to implement the system we have already approved | 20:40 |
| mordred | that is just us being policy wankers | 20:40 |
| devananda | mordred: i do not mean that we should have all the tags IN that system | 20:40 |
| mikal | ttx: I think a vote is a good idea | 20:40 |
| mordred | let's get it done | 20:40 |
| mordred | and do something | 20:40 |
| russellb | i think a tag system is useless without concrete things we've agreed on that fit int he system | 20:40 |
| mordred | for once | 20:40 |
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| mordred | I mean - we already voted on thnis | 20:41 |
| mordred | this | 20:41 |
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| ttx | how does #startvote work again | 20:41 |
| mordred | how many more times do we need to vote on voting on voting on things | 20:41 |
| annegentle | I'm fine with test and iterate. If that's "slow" then that's okay. | 20:41 |
| mikal | Heh | 20:41 |
| ttx | #startvote | 20:41 |
| openstack | Unable to parse vote topic and options. | 20:41 |
| zaneb | devananda: why do we need a tag system _before_ admitting new projects? new projects would join without the integrated-release tag, so they start at the bottom | 20:41 |
| jeblair | ttx: http://ci.openstack.org/irc.html#voting | 20:41 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, #startvote <question>? option1,option2,etc | 20:41 |
| ttx | #startvote Freezing or slowly considering ? freezing, slowly, abstain | 20:41 |
| openstack | Begin voting on: Freezing or slowly considering ? Valid vote options are freezing, slowly, abstain. | 20:41 |
| openstack | Vote using '#vote OPTION'. Only your last vote counts. | 20:41 |
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| ttx | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| mikal | slowly | 20:41 |
| mordred | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| russellb | #vote freezing | 20:41 |
| mikal | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| dhellmann | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | Can't we just focus and start with a well defined base | 20:41 |
| jeblair | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| sdague | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| markmcclain | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
| jgriffith | grr | 20:41 |
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| devananda | #vote slowly | 20:41 |
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| russellb | yay | 20:42 |
| ttx | 30 more seconds | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | #vote abstain | 20:42 |
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| devananda | ttx: you didn't have a rip off the bandaid option :) | 20:42 |
| * jbryce finds something funny about everyone “voting slowly” | 20:42 | |
| ttx | #endvote | 20:42 |
| openstack | Voted on "Freezing or slowly considering ?" Results are | 20:42 |
| openstack | freezing (1): russellb | 20:42 |
| openstack | abstain (1): jgriffith | 20:42 |
| mordred | jbryce: :) | 20:42 |
| openstack | slowly (8): ttx, devananda, jeblair, sdague, mikal, mordred, dhellmann, markmcclain | 20:42 |
| jgriffith | jbryce: LOL | 20:42 |
| ttx | OK, let's proceed | 20:42 |
| ttx | I'd like us to spend some of the remaining time in the meeting to discuss the next addition in the pipe: | 20:42 |
| ttx | * Add OpenStackClient project (https://review.openstack.org/161885) | 20:43 |
| ttx | Last week we delayed final consideration of the Magnum addition to March 24 meeting | 20:43 |
| ttx | OpenStackClient is imho "an OpenStack project" and "one of us" | 20:43 |
| zaneb | I'd suggest we set an application deadline, consider all projects who apply before the deadline as a batch, and then rip off the bandaid in one go | 20:43 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 20:43 |
| ttx | And being "officially part of OpenStack" might give it a nice contributors push | 20:43 |
| ttx | So I'm +1 on it | 20:43 |
| devananda | ttx: +1 | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | yeah, this project has been around for a while now and although it's small the contributor base is diverse | 20:43 |
| mordred | it's also had part of itself in openstack/ since before any of this system was in place :) | 20:43 |
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| ttx | I think if we disagree on that one, then YES we have a pretty differing view of what we are trtying to achieve here | 20:44 |
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| annegentle | I would love to see a contributor uptick there. | 20:44 |
| dtroyer | annegentle: so would I | 20:45 |
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| annegentle | dtroyer: :) | 20:45 |
| stevemar | dtroyer, me too | 20:45 |
| * jogo wonders how moving OSC from openstack namespace to openstack namespace would help with contributors | 20:45 | |
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| dtroyer | I don't expect it will | 20:45 |
| annegentle | heh | 20:45 |
| stevemar | jogo, we can hope | 20:45 |
| ttx | it's already there | 20:45 |
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| anteaya | jogo: they get in projects.yaml in governance, right now contributions to the repo doen't get ptl votes | 20:45 |
| dtroyer | proof that namespace alone isn't magic | 20:45 |
| annegentle | it's a good iterative test | 20:46 |
| ttx | jogo: some companies only contribute to "openstack project" | 20:46 |
| stevemar | ^ | 20:46 |
| ttx | I could name names but I won't | 20:46 |
| devananda | ttx: and that continues to make me very, very sad | 20:46 |
| jogo | ttx: its really hard to tell that it isn't part of 'openstack project' now ... | 20:46 |
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| jogo | bit that is neither here nor there | 20:46 |
| sdague | jogo: you haven't met enough lawyers | 20:47 |
| ttx | jogo: once example of such companies has plenty of lawyers | 20:47 |
| ttx | but I won't name names. | 20:47 |
| anteaya | I want that on a shirt | 20:47 |
| zaneb | ttx: that's actually not entirely unreasonable, because it assures them that everyone involved has an incentive not to mess with the governance in ways that would get it kicked out by the TC | 20:47 |
| annegentle | to me it's more interesting to see if jumping to user inclusion instead of contributor dev inclusion does anything | 20:47 |
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| ttx | Anyone opposing OpenStackClient ? I think that's a good one to start with, level 1 difficulty | 20:47 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: I like the user inclusion slant | 20:48 |
| ttx | annegentle: frankly, I care more about no longer considering them second-class | 20:48 |
| annegentle | Yep! | 20:48 |
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| ttx | Silence... does that mean we should just vote on that one ? | 20:49 |
| mordred | ttx: it's got 9 yes votes | 20:49 |
| ttx | damn, things move while I talk | 20:49 |
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| ttx | 10 last seconds to register your vote | 20:49 |
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| ttx | ok, approving now | 20:50 |
| stevemar | \o/ | 20:50 |
| * ttx is kind of surpised nobody asks to wait one more week | 20:50 | |
| jgriffith | ttx: you shouldn't tempt fate like that | 20:51 |
| ttx | sicne we are so in disagreement and all | 20:51 |
| ttx | bah, approved | 20:51 |
| dtroyer | thank you everyone | 20:51 |
| ttx | dtroyer: You win the first big-tent addition award | 20:51 |
| * mordred hands dtroyer a fluffy bunny | 20:51 | |
| lifeless | yurt please | 20:51 |
| ttx | #topic Other governance changes | 20:51 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Other governance changes (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:51 | |
| ttx | * Add the new developer-reference repo to the TC list (https://review.openstack.org/161451) | 20:52 |
| ttx | This is about where to put developer guidelines -- in openstack-specs or in a separate repo | 20:52 |
| ttx | I don't really care that much about a location, we just need to setlle on one | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | last week there was enough agreement that we didn't want to do this, that I'll probably abandon the proposal and tell the cross-project team we want them to put policies in the existing specs repo | 20:52 |
| dhellmann | unless someone wants to argue in favor of a separate repo? | 20:53 |
| ttx | looks like there is no consensus on moving, so maybe let's just keep it where it is | 20:53 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: feel free to abandon patch is nobody argues | 20:53 |
| ttx | Skipping https://review.openstack.org/#/c/162789/ since it was marked WIP | 20:53 |
| ttx | * Add proposal to rename core teams as ? (https://review.openstack.org/163660) | 20:53 |
| ttx | This was initially about renaming core teams to "maintainer teams", and is now evolving to renaming them to "core reviewers teams" | 20:54 |
| ttx | Which is one of the names we used for those teams already | 20:54 |
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| ttx | and imho nicely insists on the duty rather than the caste aspect | 20:54 |
| mikal | jogo says he is holding off there | 20:54 |
| jogo | mikal: it should say I am holding off waiting for more feedback | 20:54 |
| ttx | mikal: holding on the "maintainer" proposal, likely switching to "core reviewers team" | 20:54 |
| jogo | mikal: before I rev the patch | 20:54 |
| mikal | Ahhh, I see | 20:54 |
| mikal | Ok | 20:54 |
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| ttx | welcoming reviews | 20:54 |
| ttx | so please voice your opinion there so that jogo knows where to go | 20:55 |
| mikal | Do we really think that change will work? | 20:55 |
| mikal | People will keep calling them core teams | 20:55 |
| mikal | Cause humans | 20:55 |
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| russellb | and have exclusive parties? :) | 20:55 |
| ttx | mikal: at least we can point them to somewhere were we say they how they should be called... but yeah, no miracle expected | 20:55 |
| jogo | mikal: that is why I wanted maintainers I think it better reflects what we actually do | 20:55 |
| ttx | russell_h: low kick, 1 point | 20:55 |
| ttx | russellb: ^ | 20:56 |
| russellb | +1 point or -1 point | 20:56 |
| devananda | so i'm -1 on maintainers because it denotes maintenance, and these teams are not maintaining - they're predominantly filled with active developers | 20:56 |
| mikal | My point being, a subtle change wont work | 20:56 |
| mikal | People will ignore it | 20:56 |
| jogo | maintainers just like the kernel has maintainers etc. | 20:56 |
| mikal | The name needs to be radically different if you want it to stick | 20:56 |
| ttx | mikal: alternate wording welcome, I think | 20:56 |
| anteaya | what problem is this solving? | 20:56 |
| jogo | devananda: but the team isn't a team of developers | 20:56 |
| jogo | we are there to review and maintain | 20:56 |
| devananda | anteaya: i am wondering the same thing ... | 20:56 |
| mikal | "Future defendants" | 20:57 |
| devananda | jogo: how many folks on these teams actively contribute back fixes to stable branches? | 20:57 |
| jogo | anteaya: making non core feel second class | 20:57 |
| anteaya | they will just pick other words | 20:57 |
| jogo | devananda: stable maint != maintaining master | 20:57 |
| anteaya | it is because they don't feel empowered by their managers to do what they want | 20:57 |
| devananda | jogo: no, but using the same word will make that confusing | 20:57 |
| ttx | that's the well-accepted meaning of "maintenance" though | 20:57 |
| anteaya | that is the problem | 20:57 |
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| anteaya | wording changes nothing | 20:57 |
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| jogo | ttx: so is the other case | 20:57 |
| mordred | devananda: at the ops summit, it was requested by the operators taht we relax the "must be in master first" requirement for stable branches, btw | 20:58 |
| ttx | OK, we need to move on, please contribute tothe review if you care | 20:58 |
| jogo | anteaya: so my secret plan, is to make it easier to introduce subsystem maintiners | 20:58 |
| ttx | #topic Housekeeping | 20:58 |
| jogo | like other projects have | 20:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Housekeeping (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:58 | |
| ttx | * Publish the extra ATCs for projects (https://review.openstack.org/161465) | 20:58 |
| russellb | jogo: +100 :) | 20:58 |
| devananda | jogo: changing a name isn't going to suddenly change the culture, especially when it isn't actually changing the power dynamic between folks with +2 powers and folks without it | 20:58 |
| jeblair | jogo: so how about a proposal to do that instead? :) | 20:58 |
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| ttx | annegentle: would you remove your -1 on that one ? | 20:58 |
| russellb | jogo: though i think tooling/workflow is the biggest hurdly, though culture a big part too | 20:58 |
| asalkeld | devananda: +1 | 20:58 |
| russellb | hurdle* | 20:58 |
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| devananda | jogo: but I'm +100 on delegating merge powers on subsystems to trusted subteams | 20:58 |
| ttx | your question was answered, not sure if that's satisfying though | 20:58 |
| jogo | jeblair: I thought there would be a lot more pushback to that, but I am happy to do that instead | 20:58 |
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| fungi | i'm excited about https://review.openstack.org/161465 because it hopefully means the format of that file will stabilize some | 20:59 |
| russellb | jogo: i'm not sure we need TC involved in that | 20:59 |
| russellb | i'd rather see a project just go do it | 20:59 |
| russellb | hint hint nova! :) | 20:59 |
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| devananda | jogo: fwiw, Ironic already has subsystem maintaner teams | 20:59 |
| russellb | or any project really, i don't care | 20:59 |
| russellb | someone needs to prove it out | 20:59 |
| russellb | devananda: orly! | 20:59 |
| devananda | jogo: see ironic-python-agent, ironic-discoverd, pyghmi, .... | 20:59 |
| ttx | Hmm, topic please | 20:59 |
| jeblair | jogo, russellb: i don't think tooling is a blocker | 20:59 |
| mordred | infra has had subsystem teams for a while | 20:59 |
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| russellb | without having to split into repos | 20:59 |
| jogo | jeblair: I agree! | 20:59 |
| devananda | russellb: nope! separate repos | 20:59 |
| russellb | i'd love to see it done without splitting | 20:59 |
| sdague | right, the separate repo thing is the issue | 20:59 |
| ttx | One minute left, can we switch to last topic please | 21:00 |
| * russellb sits down at ttx's request | 21:00 | |
| devananda | we now also have some drivers maintaining the majority of their code out of tree // on stack forge with their own teams | 21:00 |
| mordred | sure- but that's not a TC thing | 21:00 |
| russellb | mordred: agree | 21:00 |
| jogo | anyway I will revise this | 21:00 |
| lifeless | we could trust folk... | 21:00 |
| ttx | argue on the review, please | 21:00 |
| ttx | The last 4 are repo housekeeping and have PTL+1, so will approve all unless someone objects now: | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add the bindep repo to Infrastructure Project (https://review.openstack.org/161771) | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add devstack-plugin-cookiecutter to QA (https://review.openstack.org/161886) | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add Gnocchi repository to Ceilometer (https://review.openstack.org/162145) | 21:00 |
| ttx | * Add new project puppet-openstackci to infra (https://review.openstack.org/163246) | 21:00 |
| devananda | ttx: ++ to you just doing the house keeping things :) | 21:00 |
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| sdague | devananda: ++ | 21:00 |
| ttx | i'll approve https://review.openstack.org/161465 when annegentle removes her -1 | 21:00 |
| mordred | ttx: ++ | 21:00 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 21:00 | |
| ttx | I guess that topic started around :25 | 21:01 |
| ttx | so it's safe to close | 21:01 |
| mikal | Heh | 21:01 |
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| ttx | unless someone has an express announcement | 21:01 |
| russellb | i still love you all, even if we disagree (or i'm confused, or whatever) :) | 21:01 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:01 | |
| jeblair | russellb: ++ | 21:01 |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 21:01:36 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-17-20.01.html | 21:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-17-20.01.txt | 21:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-03-17-20.01.log.html | 21:01 |
| ttx | That will be the final words | 21:01 |
| ttx | thanks everyone (still) | 21:01 |
| russellb | thanks, ttx | 21:01 |
| ttx | Oh my, awhat is there ? Another meeting! | 21:02 |
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| ttx | courtesy PTL ping: dhellmann, morganfainberg, notmyname, eglynn, nikhil_k, thingee, asalkeld, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, mikal: around ? | 21:02 |
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| asalkeld | o/ | 21:02 |
| eglynn | o/ | 21:02 |
| * fungi waves from his little corner | 21:02 | |
| mestery | o/ | 21:02 |
| david-lyle | o/ | 21:02 |
| SergeyLukjanov | o/ | 21:02 |
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| ttx | The good news is.. it should be a very short one | 21:02 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 21:02 |
| nikhil_k | o/ | 21:02 |
| * morganfainberg looks at the clock... oh it is that time | 21:02 | |
| adam_g | o/ | 21:02 |
| ttx | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:02 |
| devananda | ttx: i continue to wonder why i'm not on the courtesy pings for this meeting :p | 21:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Mar 17 21:02:47 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:02 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, why must you jinx it like that :P | 21:02 |
| ttx | devananda: you're now added | 21:02 |
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| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:03 |
| ttx | #topic Progress on Swift and Keystone developing next (incompatible) version of client libs in openstack-sdk | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress on Swift and Keystone developing next (incompatible) version of client libs in openstack-sdk (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
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| ttx | Back in December we discussed how Swift and Keystone were developing the next-generation client libs via openstack-sdk | 21:03 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2014/crossproject.2014-12-02-21.01.html | 21:03 |
| ttx | Back then we said we'd talk again about how that went in February/March, so here we are | 21:04 |
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| ttx | notmyname is not around, but reported that nothing has happened on Swift's side | 21:04 |
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| ttx | mostly due to other priorities | 21:04 |
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| morganfainberg | i can report much the same on Keystone side | 21:04 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: hi! | 21:04 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: is it still in the cards for keystone ? | 21:04 |
| morganfainberg | not this cycle. | 21:04 |
| ttx | mordred: heh | 21:05 |
| ttx | arh tab fail | 21:05 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: heh | 21:05 |
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| morganfainberg | mordred, aha! for once it's the inverse tab-fail | 21:05 |
| briancurtin | fwiw, SDK has made a ton of progress and will soon be at a better point that other projects can leverage it like those were planned (pending their availability/priority, of course) | 21:05 |
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| jeblair | careful; you have summoned mordred to a meeting with the words "client" and "incompatible" in the topic. | 21:05 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, we did discuss we are going to split all the auth logic out of keystoneclient, session, plugins, etc. | 21:05 |
| mordred | aroo? | 21:05 |
| morganfainberg | ttx aiming for liberty early | 21:06 |
| ttx | briancurtin: would you say it's a sane approach for projects that want a next-gen CLI to piggyback on openstack-sdk ? | 21:06 |
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| * bknudson was planning to change auth-token to use keystoneclient, maybe should use sdk instead. | 21:06 | |
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| morganfainberg | this will be consumable by SDK and anything else. | 21:06 |
| dhellmann | ttx: now that openstackclient is official, perhaps we should be encouraging projects to add their next-gen CLIs there? | 21:06 |
| mordred | ttx: CLI should use python-openstackclient | 21:06 |
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| devananda | naive question on openstack-sdk -- is there a goal to have this used for intra-serice communication? | 21:06 |
| mordred | which is what projects are already doing | 21:06 |
| briancurtin | ttx: yes. SDK will soon be able to provide a consistent REST client *library* from which CLIs could be build | 21:06 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, ++ more people should have CLIs in OSC :) | 21:06 |
| ttx | jeblair: I did it on puprose, I was surprised that idea flew so easily in december | 21:07 |
| briancurtin | devananda: i dont work on any services myself, but the goal is to make libraries taht can be used intra-service - yes | 21:07 |
| mordred | briancurtin, ttx: I think that that would be more OSC moving to OpenStack SDK | 21:07 |
| dhellmann | mordred: ++ | 21:07 |
| stevemar | mordred, which will happen, eventually | 21:07 |
| briancurtin | ^probably, i dont know 100% what next-gen CLI means so i spoke a bit early | 21:07 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: does mordred's plan fit in your long-term view for the next-gen CLI ? | 21:08 |
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| morganfainberg | ttx, i' | 21:08 |
| jeblair | devananda: people tell me that the python-*client stuff is really focusing on inter-service communication, and that's why it's not a good place to develop user-side client interfaces | 21:08 |
| mordred | aroo? | 21:08 |
| morganfainberg | ve already pushed the CLI stuff over to OSC | 21:08 |
| devananda | interesting. so do you see eg. Nova using the common client instead of python-glanceclient at some point? | 21:08 |
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| devananda | jeblair: that is what I had heard as well | 21:08 |
| morganfainberg | i let them drive the best approach, it doesn't let me drop bitrotting things from ksc though | 21:08 |
| jeblair | devananda: if the services move to the common client and take that same attitude with them, i'm going to be upset | 21:08 |
| fungi | devananda: briancurtin: by intra-service do you mean when nova needs to talk to neutron, using openstack-sdk instead of python-neutronclient to accomplish that? | 21:08 |
| mordred | I would counsel stongly not putting the cart before the horse | 21:08 |
| briancurtin | fungi: yes | 21:08 |
| fungi | er, what devananda typed faster than i did | 21:08 |
| mordred | let's get the thign we don't have right now | 21:08 |
| devananda | fungi: that is my question, yes | 21:08 |
| mordred | which is a usable end-user library | 21:08 |
| ttx | mordred: topic is, back in december while you were asleep both keystojen and swift declared wanting to write incompatible next-gen CLI | 21:08 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 21:09 |
| mordred | we don't have that at all | 21:09 |
| devananda | I do *not* think that is the right goal, fwiw | 21:09 |
| mordred | because python-*client is CRAP | 21:09 |
| morganfainberg | so the net approach is split out the stuff i don't want to get clobbered by KSC wonky-compat stuff into it'w own thing | 21:09 |
| devananda | I would much prefer the python*clients to stay focused on intra-service interactions, and the common / unified client to really be focused on client-side usability | 21:09 |
| morganfainberg | so SDK and shade and anything else can do things with it w/o getting compat things. | 21:09 |
| mordred | devananda: ++ | 21:09 |
| morganfainberg | anyway. | 21:09 |
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| sdague | honestly, ++ on using the sdk for cross service interactions | 21:09 |
| mordred | shade also wants to port to openstacksdk when it's ready | 21:09 |
| dhellmann | devananda: yes, I understood that to be the plan, at least for now. | 21:09 |
| fungi | so we'll be doing stable branches of the sdk presumably to accomplish inter-service communication hopefully | 21:10 |
| briancurtin | devananda: SDK isn't *focused* on intra-service, but by just providing a consistent and usable interface, you get it for free | 21:10 |
| devananda | thanks all. didn't mean to derail - -just wanted some clarification. | 21:10 |
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| dhellmann | sdague: now that we're using virtualenvs and have stable branches of libs in the gate, that would work (eventually) | 21:10 |
| fungi | because the "backward compatible one branch" model has pretty much been identified as not working for stable intra-service purposes | 21:10 |
| morganfainberg | briancurtin, i'll ping you about auth stuff net week. | 21:11 |
| mordred | yah - it's a different use case | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | next* | 21:11 |
| briancurtin | sounds good | 21:11 |
| mordred | fungi: ++ | 21:11 |
| ttx | OK, i'm a bit confused | 21:11 |
| mordred | ttx: I can't imagine why | 21:11 |
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| ttx | probably because this day is too long | 21:11 |
| mordred | yah | 21:11 |
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| devananda | ttx: much ... | 21:11 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i haven't even had coffee yet :( | 21:11 |
| mordred | just please please please don't screw the SDK up with intra-service stuff yet | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | the day is turning into a nightmare. | 21:12 |
| * fungi hasn't even had beer yet | 21:12 | |
| devananda | morganfainberg: oh the horror! | 21:12 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: could you summarize what you plan to do for keystone, between openstack-sdk and openstackclient and all ? | 21:12 |
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| mordred | give it some time to be useful for the use case which is currently a nightmare | 21:12 |
| jeblair | mordred: ++ | 21:12 |
| devananda | mordred: ++ | 21:12 |
| ttx | fungi: I didn't have my guinness yet | 21:12 |
| sdague | mordred: in what way would it be screwed by that? | 21:12 |
| mordred | sdague: release policy being completely different | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, so in short, we're going to split out, targeted for liberty some bits from keystoneclient that are common [auth] | 21:12 |
| mordred | for intra-service - it is important to know version | 21:12 |
| mordred | for end user, it is explicitly important to not | 21:12 |
| devananda | sdague: different audience => subtly different requirements | 21:12 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, the parts that should never have compat carried with it. | 21:12 |
| devananda | (or maybe not so subtly different) | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | this is session, auth, plugins, adapters | 21:13 |
| mordred | because an end user does not know if you installed essex or havana and should not | 21:13 |
| mordred | and some end users may want to connect to both | 21:13 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: and that split-stuff would end up... in openstackclient ? | 21:13 |
| sdague | mordred: so, I'm not convinced it's actually important in the intra service case either, but that's fine | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | and then we will focus on using SDK for "next gen" client-y things that interact with the API in non-auth ways | 21:13 |
| mordred | sdague: awesome- except we just added stable branches for client libs | 21:13 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, no, that will be it's own lib, like middleware that just handles auth processes. I expect SDK to consume it | 21:14 |
| sdague | mordred: we added that because pip is drunk | 21:14 |
| mordred | sdague: in any case- I'm just asking that we get end-user solid first | 21:14 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: ah, starts making more sense | 21:14 |
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| mordred | before we add another use case | 21:14 |
| fungi | yeah, and this paradox has led to all sorts of testing and packaging pain too. does a distro package the version of glanceclient which their packaged version od nova needs to talk to their packaged version of glance, or do they package a version of glanceclient that they want their cloud users talking to random glance service providers with? | 21:14 |
| sdague | if pip wasn't drunk, we could largely have avoided that | 21:14 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, it lets us drop the compat worries for the shared stuff. it also means i can drop some bitrotting stuff in keystoneclient because we will be changing dependency trees | 21:14 |
| mordred | I'm just asking that we get end-user solid first before we add another use case | 21:14 |
| mordred | since we have largely screwed our end users constantly since the inception | 21:15 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, it's an effort to not carry keystone-compatibility and keystone-specific API code for commonly shared / used code. | 21:15 |
| sdague | mordred: sure, that's fine | 21:15 |
| mordred | \o/ | 21:15 |
| lifeless | sdague: is there a spec on the pip drunkeness somewhere? I'd like edumacation | 21:16 |
| ttx | ok, I think I got it . Wondering how much of that plan has potential to be replicated elsewhere | 21:16 |
| sdague | lifeless: it has no resolver | 21:16 |
| fungi | #link https://github.com/pypa/pip/issues/988 | 21:16 |
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| lifeless | sdague: lets not derail here; I know that much - after the meeting perhaps?\ | 21:16 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: is all of that written down somewhere else? | 21:17 |
| ttx | morganfainberg: basically I'd like your specific plan to be part of a long-term vision on lcient libs and CLI | 21:17 |
| morganfainberg | ttx, i'll be proposing the infra/goverance changes next week with a code split. but the target for release will be liberty. that will document the whole plan between gov. repo and infra bits | 21:17 |
| ttx | (that was the idea for this status update, let projects experiment and see what can be adopted elsewhere) | 21:17 |
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| ttx | morganfainberg: cool | 21:18 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, ^ | 21:18 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: ++ | 21:18 |
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| ttx | Alright, last thoughts / questions on that topic ? | 21:18 |
| morganfainberg | the tl;dr is "help make it so SDK can be successful so we can move stuff to it sanely" | 21:19 |
| bknudson | do we have any idea how close it is to parity? | 21:19 |
| ttx | sounds like a plan. Next topic... | 21:19 |
| bknudson | with keystoneclient? | 21:19 |
| ttx | arh, bknudson's last second question. | 21:19 |
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| morganfainberg | bknudson, bigger discussion | 21:19 |
| bknudson | ok, don't worry about it. | 21:19 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, i don't think we're there yet. | 21:20 |
| ttx | #topic Add library stable release procedures/policy | 21:20 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add library stable release procedures/policy (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:20 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/155072/ | 21:20 |
| briancurtin | bknudson: on parity, we haven't made that a priority since we've only been using the auth bits. once we stabilize API, getting to parity with any other clients isn't too hard | 21:20 |
| ttx | This one is really in the final stage before final approval by the TC, so if you have a strong opinion on it, please voice it now. | 21:20 |
| ttx | If it is still consensual by the end of the week I'll put it on next TC meeting agenda for final rubberstamping. | 21:20 |
| morganfainberg | in short, stable releases of clients? | 21:20 |
| ttx | Because we want to apply it for kilo | 21:20 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: yes, in addition to oslo and other libs | 21:21 |
| bknudson | backporting security fixes for libraries. | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | hmm. | 21:21 |
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| morganfainberg | i think i voiced support for this a while back. cool | 21:21 |
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| bknudson | and keystonemiddleware? | 21:21 |
| morganfainberg | yes middleware would adhere to this | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | bknudson: if it is a library, it is covered by this policy | 21:22 |
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| fungi | driven in part by attempting to maintain requirements stability and the fact that our servers require the clients to do intra-service communication (per earlier topic) | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | fungi: right | 21:22 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, middleware is a little different, but it falls into the same policy easily (and should) | 21:22 |
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| dhellmann | this is mostly driven by the fact that we are capping requirements in stable branches for applications, so I'm trying to describe a process for allowing patch releases into the stable branches for fixes | 21:22 |
| devananda | dhellmann: does this apply to python-*clients as well? | 21:22 |
| ttx | So please, please, report on that spec if you agree or disagree. Not having an opinion is fine too. | 21:22 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: middleware isn't useful on its own, right? so it's a library? | 21:23 |
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| dhellmann | devananda: yes | 21:23 |
| devananda | huh. ok. | 21:23 |
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| adam_g | one question: is maintenance and release mgmt of stable client libraries the responsibility of the individual client teams or stable-maint? | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | devananda: because the alternative is they can never use oslo libraries | 21:23 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, it's ... well it could be useful on it's own w/ keystone. but uhm. lets just say yes it'sa libary. | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | adam_g: how is the work split up for the apps now? | 21:23 |
| devananda | dhellmann: yah. it makes sense. i'm just thinking of the situation between ironic and nova | 21:23 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: :-) | 21:23 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, for simplicity | 21:23 |
| devananda | dhellmann: that is, nova refuses to accept python-ironicclient in their requirements.txt file | 21:23 |
| ttx | adam_g: currently, individual client teams, usually driven by VMT (since only security updates will likely result in point releases) | 21:24 |
| devananda | dhellmann: but you can't use nova + ironic without installing it. and thus it should be capped on stable branches | 21:24 |
| jogo | devananda: there is a case of this right now for glanceclient | 21:24 |
| jogo | needing a stable branch | 21:24 |
| fungi | devananda: the python-.*client libraries are used by services to talk to one another, so can't introduce dependency changes in new client releases without capping them in stable branches, and can't get security fixes to the stable branches if we cap them without branching them | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | devananda: there's a separate spec somewhere that may deal with optional requirements like that | 21:24 |
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| ttx | fungi: we could however only create the branch if there is a backport | 21:24 |
| dhellmann | right, what fungi said | 21:24 |
| adam_g | dhellmann, as it is today, release management is generally handled by stable-maint-core, backports and general maintanence by individual project teams + stable-maint-core | 21:24 |
| devananda | yah. the reasoning to have stable branches of clients -- and thereby cap their requirements -- makes sense | 21:24 |
| adam_g | ttx, thanks | 21:24 |
| devananda | it's one reason I join the pip-hate bandwagon | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | ttx: technically we could, but if we do that we're going to screw up eventually, so let's choose a process that doesn't require anyone to make a decision on that | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | branches are cheap | 21:25 |
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| devananda | because in ironic right now, we're trying to make sure tip of client continues to work with stable server and current server release | 21:25 |
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| jogo | devananda: https://bugs.launchpad.net/python-glanceclient/+bug/1423165 | 21:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1423165 in Cinder "https: client can cause nova/cinder to leak sockets for 'get' 'show' 'delete' 'update'" [Undecided,New] | 21:25 |
| dhellmann | devananda: right, and that could still be a goal under this system if you wanted it to be | 21:25 |
| sdague | devananda: you can't do that if you have releases | 21:25 |
| ttx | dhellmann: except we don't want to encourage backports in python-*client, so we might want to ahve an additional policy there | 21:25 |
| adam_g | devananda, i think we'd want to strive for that even with stable branches | 21:25 |
| sdague | the requirements get into conflict pretty fast | 21:26 |
| ttx | (i.e. "they start in Phase III stable support") | 21:26 |
| devananda | ttx: right. backports on clients doesnt seem to be a thing we are doing today, but if they have stable branches, we may need to | 21:26 |
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| jeblair | dhellmann: what is "$release" and "$SERIES" in that spec? | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | sdague: oh, I thought he meant "can talk to" not "can run in the same site-packages" | 21:26 |
| devananda | ttx: eg, for security fixes | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: sorry, I wasn't consistent. Both are things like kilo or liberty | 21:26 |
| jeblair | oooh, okay. | 21:26 |
| sdague | dhellmann: but, the point is, it needs to live in the nova address space | 21:26 |
| dhellmann | I think ttx suggested $SERIES and I didn't find all of the $release instances and replace them | 21:26 |
| fungi | yeah, i think the clients need functional tests against devstack or something like that, but cease to need to be tested as intra-service communication libraries from a backward-compat perspective | 21:26 |
| devananda | sdague: OH. yes, I wasn't clear. | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | sdague: sure, in one use case | 21:27 |
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| sdague | otherwise, kind of pointless, as that's a primary consumer | 21:27 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: yeah, that's probably worth fixing as i was really having trouble understanding it. :) | 21:27 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: noted | 21:27 |
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| ttx | ok, other questions on that one ? | 21:27 |
| fungi | i'd imagine for example novaclient's functional tests would start to get run against supported stable release environments to ensure backward-compat | 21:28 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: i'm glad you put in the thing that said you didn't want to use stable/1.2.3, because i thought that's what you meant by $release and why you were distinguishing it from $SERIOUS | 21:28 |
| devananda | ttx: i revert my position in our earlier conversation | 21:28 |
| jeblair | $SERIES even | 21:28 |
| devananda | ttx: we will need stable branches of ironicclient | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: I was $SERIOUS about it ;-) | 21:28 |
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| ttx | devananda: ok | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, oh god stable/X.X.X would be awful. | 21:28 |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, stable/series ++ | 21:28 |
| dhellmann | I'll clarify that in a new draft in the morning | 21:29 |
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| fungi | we tried something akin to stable/x.y.z and there are some issues there | 21:29 |
| ttx | ok, let's move on to next topic then | 21:29 |
| fungi | but better left for beertalk | 21:29 |
| ttx | #topic Managing stable branch requirements | 21:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Managing stable branch requirements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:29 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/161047/ | 21:29 |
| jeblair | fungi: i believe the only issue was that the process wasn't followed | 21:29 |
| ttx | This one is about providing a more stable test environment for stable branches | 21:29 |
| ttx | by freezing the transitive dependency set and using that in tests | 21:29 |
| ttx | adam_g: I'll let you present it deeper | 21:29 |
| adam_g | ive pushed up a first pass at the required devstack changes for this at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165195/ | 21:30 |
| adam_g | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/165195/ | 21:30 |
| fungi | jeblair: well, lack of existing tooling to match them to equivalent stable series branches for integration testing | 21:30 |
| ttx | This one is also unlikely to affect that many people, but those with an opinion usually have a strong one | 21:30 |
| ttx | So it is time to review it and provide feedback | 21:30 |
| adam_g | the idea is to maintain a stable list of pinned transitive deps in requirements (in addition to global-requirements.txt), and use those when testing in the gate. this list is updated anytime global-requirements.txt changes | 21:30 |
| bknudson | fewer gate breakages will be a positive affect. | 21:30 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, ++ | 21:30 |
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| bknudson | updated automatically? | 21:31 |
| sdague | adam_g: I feel like this tooling should all be in requirements project, not in devstack | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | sdague, ++ | 21:31 |
| adam_g | i think the spec is ready for review, the only concerns i have at this point is 1) requiring devs updating global-requirements.txt to also compile and propose the static list 2) relying on pip-compile, which lives outside of openstack/stackforge | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | i would like to see it clearly published centrally | 21:31 |
| dhellmann | yeah, if we have this in multiple repos we'll get wedged | 21:31 |
| morganfainberg | i think it would be a net-win for our distro packagers as well | 21:32 |
| adam_g | sdague, we need to change how we install things a bit, and that'll require something in devstack | 21:32 |
| bknudson | how are distros going to use this? | 21:32 |
| fungi | i don't think it will likely be much help to distro packagers | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, same way they use g-r | 21:32 |
| adam_g | sdague, but yeah, any functionality can be pushed into reqs and devstack can just call that instead | 21:32 |
| bknudson | not having breaks will help, of course. | 21:32 |
| fungi | morganfainberg: by the time this exists, they've already settled on what versions to package | 21:32 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I expect distros will continue to use the more lenient file | 21:32 |
| sdague | morganfainberg: honestly, I don't think it will be. Because we are picking a very narrow requirements set they'll basically have to reinvent this all if they want to support anything other than big bang upgrades | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | bknudson, they can confirm what we're testing against and what the transitive deps are. i know packagers would like that | 21:32 |
| morganfainberg | fungi, future looking even? | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | not just kilo | 21:33 |
| fungi | morganfainberg: for any branch | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | eh ok | 21:33 |
| bknudson | we create packages at a certain level and ship with and then don't change. | 21:33 |
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| morganfainberg | oh it's a one-off when branching | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | ooooh | 21:33 |
| fungi | morganfainberg: master is a moving target. by the time we branch, they've already decided on versions of packages | 21:33 |
| morganfainberg | not auto-update on every g-r- patch? | 21:33 |
| adam_g | sdague, we're not picking a narrow requirement set, we're still using the ranges we provide in requirements.txt--we're just being narrow about what we use at a given point in time in our gate runs | 21:33 |
| * morganfainberg shrugs. | 21:33 | |
| adam_g | all the while satisyfing what we're publishing in requiremnts.txt for downstreams | 21:33 |
| jeblair | i have read the spec, but i am not certain why we want to solve this problem | 21:34 |
| dhellmann | frankly, I'd like us to run for a while with the caps to see how big of a deal breaking changes are before we start being more strict | 21:34 |
| morganfainberg | i guess it would be good for CD but thats a different story. | 21:34 |
| jeblair | i am generally opposed to making it so that our software _only_ works in the gate | 21:34 |
| jeblair | and does not work for a user who just tries to run it | 21:34 |
| ttx | This is all about preserving our ability to produce stable branches at all. If we don't simplify testing, we can't maintain them. So it should be seen as a net win | 21:34 |
| ttx | because the alternative is not pretty | 21:35 |
| sdague | dhellmann: yeh, I'd agree, have we seen wedges with the current capping? | 21:35 |
| adam_g | jeblair, currently, a user who tries to "run it" may get something totally different than what was run in the gate 10 minutes ago, wrt to dependencies | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | ttx: we're already expressing upper bounds on *our* requirements. How often are the stable tests still breaking because of transitive dependencies? | 21:35 |
| bknudson | we also have the issue now where we don't test with the min version req'd, so we don't know if it actually works ... e.g. cryptography 0.4 | 21:35 |
| jeblair | adam_g: yes, but the next time the gate runs, it will get what they got (or something later), and it will break, and we will know | 21:35 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 21:36 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I think there was a case last week, mentioned by jogo on the review | 21:36 |
| jogo | ttx: correct https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1430592 | 21:36 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1430592 in devstack "testtools-1.7.0 triggering pkg_resources.VersionConflict: (unittest2 0.5.1 (/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages), Requirement.parse('unittest2>=1.0.0'))" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Ian Wienand (iwienand) | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | ttx: so 1. And how long did it take to fix? | 21:36 |
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| jogo | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1430592 is the exact case this spec should prevent | 21:36 |
| adam_g | jeblair, the "it will break" part is what the spec is trying to address | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | ok, that's not even a runtime dependency | 21:36 |
| jeblair | adam_g: but this proposal will virtually guarantee that users will be unable to run the software without the extra setup that this does -- which is work that is not handled by pip | 21:36 |
| dhellmann | adam_g: but having it break is a useful piece of information | 21:36 |
| sdague | also, that was a pip is drunk moment right, it should have upgraded unittest2 but it did not | 21:37 |
| jeblair | adam_g: basically, this works around pip _so much_ that we would be better off simply not using it | 21:37 |
| jogo | jeblair: using breaking stable breaches as a forcing mechanism to make people pay attention to stable branches means we block development for large chunks of time | 21:37 |
| jeblair | adam_g: because right now we say you can install with pip, but this means you can not. | 21:37 |
| sdague | jeblair: yeh, this feels like at this point it's basically just ghetto pip2 | 21:37 |
| jeblair | jogo: it's not a forcing system, it's reality | 21:37 |
| dhellmann | jogo: capping a new requirement doesn't take a lot of time, though | 21:37 |
| jeblair | jogo: the software _really is broken_ and needs to be fixed | 21:37 |
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| sdague | done in shell scripts, which is weird | 21:37 |
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| jogo | dhellmann: so that isn't always true, figuring out subtle breakage can be really hard | 21:38 |
| bknudson | capping requirement does take time especially when you don't know exactly when it broke | 21:38 |
| jeblair | jogo: this merely masks the problem and means that the only way to use the software is via the exact mechanism in the gate. | 21:38 |
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| dhellmann | jogo, bknudson : so let's track when we start seeing new versions of transitive dependencies in the gate to make that easier? | 21:38 |
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| fungi | i too agree that trying to work around "our software doesn't work out in the world" is akin to sticking our developer heads in teh sand so we can continue to make progress on other things | 21:39 |
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| ttx | The problem is, (1) the expertise to solve thsoe is pretty limited, and those people ususally work on master; (2) the tooling to follow such issues is pretty inexistent | 21:39 |
| jogo | honestly using pip with free floating deps to install this in the real world doesn't sound like a great idea to me | 21:39 |
| bknudson | the stable branches do work out in the world, because packagers pin versions. | 21:39 |
| dhellmann | jeblair, fungi : how hard would it be to track the pip freeze output for each job so when a job starts failing we could point out that it has different versions than the last time it passed? | 21:40 |
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| fungi | bknudson: that is basically an argument in favor of having the distros do our stable branch testing for us | 21:40 |
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| jeblair | jogo: that's entirely valid. i think some projects do hard-specify all transitive deps and versions. | 21:40 |
| jeblair | jogo: i think if we want to go that way, we should make that our only supported installation mechanism.... | 21:40 |
| ttx | jeblair: so you suggest we fix the stable-gate-fixing staffing problem ? | 21:40 |
| fungi | dhellmann: we basically already do? | 21:40 |
| fungi | dhellmann: unless you're asking for more automation and reporting around it, that's already usually one of the first things i check | 21:41 |
| jogo | also it wouldn't be hard to make a bot to automatically propose changes to the pinned stable branch deps | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | fungi: the current freeze output is in each log, but is there a diff since the last known good job run? | 21:41 |
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| jogo | so we can test new versions of libs and only approve using them if they don't break things | 21:41 |
| fungi | dhellmann: i just pull up a recent passing job, an early failing job (identified via logstash) and then diff the pip freeze from them | 21:41 |
| dhellmann | fungi: ah, ok, sure | 21:42 |
| dhellmann | fungi: better tooling for that would be useful | 21:42 |
| fungi | an argument can certainly be made for adding automation and reporting around that, but we'd need to define what it would look like | 21:42 |
| jeblair | dhellmann, fungi: yeah, i think there's room for that | 21:42 |
| fungi | guessing something akin to subunit2sql | 21:42 |
| jogo | this also comes down to a human problem, I do not want to keep putting out these fires | 21:42 |
| ttx | nobody wants | 21:43 |
| dhellmann | fungi: "your job ran with blah, blah, blah installed and that list is different from the job at time X that passed in this way..." | 21:43 |
| dhellmann | jogo: just because we don't want to do this, doesn't mean we want you to put out all the fires | 21:43 |
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| jogo | dhellmann: so who wants to do it instead? | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | frankly, I think if we leave things broken for a little bit we'll find some people willing to spend time debugging these things. So far we're doing it all for them. | 21:44 |
| ttx | shooting down this solution without proposing an alternative to fixing our stable maint gate issues is not really acceptable | 21:44 |
| fungi | often times the only way to get new people to help fight those fires (or even recognize that they are) is to step back and let them burn | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | and I use "we're" very loosely there, since I don't do it much :-) | 21:44 |
| jogo | dhellmann: so part of the idea here is to decouple stable branch stuff from impacting master branch | 21:44 |
| jeblair | ttx, jogo, adam_g: i think we need to pick an installation method and stick with it. either use pip the way we are now, or use a different installation method where we use fixed versions everywhere. | 21:44 |
| dhellmann | ttx: I am not yet convinced that this problem happens so often any more than we still have that problem, though. Are you? | 21:44 |
| jogo | jeblair: what about master branch? | 21:44 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I trust the people who fight those every day, like jogo & adam_g -- if they push a solution, I want to support them | 21:45 |
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| jogo | dhellmann: I wasn't sure it would happen much but it did a week ago | 21:45 |
| ttx | rather than push them to burnout by rejecting their attempts | 21:45 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: ok. I do, too, but I think this adds more issues downstream, as jeblair pointed out. | 21:45 |
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| jogo | dhellmann: this puts more burdon on stable teams yes | 21:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: this is not a "stable maint gate" issue. this is a "stable branch" issue. the solution _must not be_ to make the gate different than reality. the solution must fix reality. :) | 21:46 |
| ttx | dhellmann: if the alternative is to have dead stable branches, not that much | 21:46 |
| * adam_g would love to know who downstream actually uses stable branches via pip | 21:46 | |
| morganfainberg | jeblair, there is no spoon. | 21:46 |
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| dhellmann | adam_g: I know of some deployments that work that way | 21:46 |
| ttx | jeblair: so far the only alternative I heard is to drop stabel branches completely. I would rather not have it come down to that | 21:46 |
| dhellmann | adam_g: some folks follow the stable branches instead of master because they're stable :-) | 21:46 |
| jeblair | ttx: i think lots of alternatives have been suggested. let me try to recap for you. | 21:47 |
| adam_g | dhellmann, weiiird | 21:47 |
| ttx | jeblair: key word is "suggested". We need people to work on those | 21:47 |
| dhellmann | adam_g: not at all, these folks do their own packaging | 21:47 |
| jogo | jeblair: I agree, we can make how devstack installs stable align with how downstream folks who don't use packages install stable branches | 21:47 |
| jeblair | 0) status quo -- because capping was a big part of the problem, let's try that and see how big the transitive problem really is first. | 21:48 |
| adam_g | dhellmann, exactly, they do their own packaging and likely run with some static set of dependencies (either satisfied by a distro or their own controlled pip mirrors) | 21:48 |
| dhellmann | adam_g: no, they do not use a distro. They make their own virtualenv-based packages with pip. | 21:48 |
| ttx | jeblair: We've been looking for someone to drive this for months | 21:48 |
| ttx | adam_g kindly volunteered, but if his solution won't fly, we need a backup plan | 21:48 |
| ttx | with another volunteer to push it | 21:48 |
| bknudson | dhellmann: what do they do when they have a problem due to the package not working with the old code? | 21:49 |
| ttx | (network issues, I'm lagging now) | 21:49 |
| jeblair | 1) the minimal change to adam_g's proposal that i would be okay with is to make the installation mechanism for stable branches use fully pinned deps always -- gate or end user. | 21:49 |
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| jeblair | 2) that could extend to changing how we install the master branch too | 21:50 |
| jeblair | (i don't necessarily think that's a good idea) | 21:50 |
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| fungi | the problem he's trying to work around i think is that #2 "fully-pinned" is sort of a fairy tale | 21:50 |
| dhellmann | an issue with (1) is that we can't sync those pins into the projects because then we'd never be able to change the pins because the tests couldn't install the incompatible projects together, so we need to just manage the pins in g-r | 21:50 |
| fungi | er, #1 | 21:50 |
| ttx | adam_g: what do you think of jeblair's suggestions ? | 21:50 |
| adam_g | #1 makes distro packagers lives a mess | 21:50 |
| jeblair | adam_g: how so? | 21:51 |
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| fungi | adam_g: why are distro packagers caring what we have pinned in stable branches? | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | and ftr, we haven't done (2) in the past because we want to catch incompatibilities in new releases of things we use early | 21:51 |
| dhellmann | #writeitdown | 21:51 |
| jeblair | dhellmann: indeed | 21:51 |
| fungi | i thought they'd already settled on packaged versions of things when we branched stable from master? | 21:51 |
| adam_g | jeblair, fungi because our stable branche requirements.txt ends up dictating what they need to ship in addition to our projects | 21:51 |
| ttx | jeblair: I agree that we could do (0) -- it's just that those transitive deps issues seem to be common enough | 21:52 |
| fungi | adam_g: don't they do that when we release? stable branch pinning is a post-major-release activity | 21:52 |
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| jeblair | adam_g: but if your proposal doesn't include changing them, then we are asking them to use known-broken requirements. | 21:52 |
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| adam_g | fungi, pinning them in stable means there will be potential problems when re-packaging our stable point releases, ie if distro has released some security fixes to a pinned dep | 21:53 |
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| jeblair | ttx: i feel like there is not universal agreement on that. i don't want to argue against jogo who says he's tired of it, but i also do think we need some real time with caps to see if they have an effect. :( | 21:53 |
| ttx | OK, so it looks like the discussion can continue on the review --which was all +1 before this discussion | 21:54 |
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| jeblair | ttx: i will write a response there. | 21:54 |
| jogo | jeblair: so since adding caps, we have already seen one failure | 21:54 |
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| jeblair | i think this was useful | 21:54 |
| ttx | so I guess there is still value in raising specs at this meeting | 21:54 |
| * morganfainberg has some interesting thoughts suddenly. | 21:54 | |
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| morganfainberg | let me stew on them and i'll write up my response to that review. | 21:54 |
| jogo | https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1430592 | 21:54 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1430592 in devstack "testtools-1.7.0 triggering pkg_resources.VersionConflict: (unittest2 0.5.1 (/usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages), Requirement.parse('unittest2>=1.0.0'))" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Ian Wienand (iwienand) | 21:54 |
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| jogo | honestly I didn't think this would happen much, but it did | 21:55 |
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| jeblair | that almost seems self-inflicted | 21:55 |
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| dhellmann | jogo: so another alternative is to cap "bad actors" as they come up | 21:55 |
| dhellmann | or pin, rather | 21:55 |
| jogo | dhellmann: no fires please, not less | 21:55 |
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| adam_g | s/as they come up/when we are wedged/ | 21:56 |
| bknudson | you pin it but then another packages unpins it. | 21:56 |
| jogo | unless you are volunteering to put them all out | 21:56 |
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| dhellmann | adam_g: "as we learn that we have incompatibilities in the world" :-) | 21:56 |
| morganfainberg | i mean. really silly question... is it possible to pull an entry point and programatically populate to setuptools the requirements? | 21:56 |
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| jeblair | jogo: wasn't that case related to installing from debs, not pip? | 21:57 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: ? | 21:57 |
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| fungi | jogo: so can you describe how the proposed solution would have protected us from that bug while still allowing us to find out it's a problem? | 21:57 |
| morganfainberg | e.g. g-r publishes as a package, and pbr or similar tool loads it, pushes the known versions of whatever pinned/capped to setuptools for install | 21:57 |
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| adam_g | we can have a perioidic job that runs against global-requirements.txt and finds conflicts | 21:57 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, that way at least the fix is "push an updated g-r package" not chase down differnt dependency wonkyness in many openstack projects | 21:57 |
| jogo | fungi: yes, it would have prevented it, because we would have had a pinned list of *all* dependencies, transient and all | 21:57 |
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| ttx | ok, please continue discussion on the review, and moving on to final topic | 21:58 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion & announcements | 21:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:58 | |
| jogo | and as adam_g just said, we have a periodic, say nightly, job that tries proposing new caps and if it passes the gate its good | 21:58 |
| dhellmann | morganfainberg: I think I proposed that way back when pbr was just a twinkle in mordred's eye. It feels a bit weird to manage dependencies with an extra download, though | 21:58 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, and then projects just say "i use 'testtools'" but the version is loaded from f-r. | 21:58 |
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| ttx | We had 1:1s syncs today in #openstack-relmgr-office, logs at: | 21:58 |
| ttx | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ptl_sync/2015/ptl_sync.2015-03-17-09.00.html | 21:58 |
| ttx | We discussed the last features and bugfixes before the kilo-3 tag | 21:58 |
| mordred | aroo? | 21:58 |
| morganfainberg | dhellmann, let me re-open that w/ mordred and some folks later today. | 21:58 |
| ttx | (which coincides with Feature Freeze, so expect your favorite ML to be filled with FFE requests next week) | 21:59 |
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| dhellmann | morganfainberg: you want to use the package data api to load a file, though, not setuptools | 21:59 |
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| morganfainberg | dhellmann, will work out details on right things post meeting | 21:59 |
| * morganfainberg lets ttx carry on | 21:59 | |
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| ttx | Well, we are mostly done | 21:59 |
| ttx | Anything else, anyone ? | 21:59 |
| mordred | ttx: I'm hungry? | 21:59 |
| ttx | Announcement ? | 21:59 |
| ttx | jeblair: outage ? | 22:00 |
| ttx | mordred: Noma reopened | 22:00 |
| mordred | ttx: I KNOW! | 22:00 |
| mordred | ttx: TC meeting there? | 22:00 |
| jeblair | ttx: gerrit outage saturday, email will be sent shortly. | 22:00 |
| ttx | mordred: also "La Maison des bois" burnt down | 22:00 |
| ttx | some equilibrium in the force | 22:00 |
| fungi | also gerrit ip address change going along with the outage | 22:00 |
| jeblair | (this was originally announced in februrary -- this is our server + OS upgrade/move) | 22:00 |
| jeblair | and what fungi said ;) | 22:01 |
| morganfainberg | fungi, fun times ahead. | 22:01 |
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| ttx | ok, closing down | 22:01 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 22:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 22:01 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Mar 17 22:01:21 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-17-21.02.html | 22:01 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-17-21.02.txt | 22:01 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-03-17-21.02.log.html | 22:01 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone, follow up on reviews please | 22:01 |
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| fungi | #endttx | 22:01 |
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| fungi | time for that guinness | 22:01 |
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| eglynn | fungi: way ahead of you :) | 22:03 |
| fungi | heh | 22:03 |
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| CheeseBurga | openstack openstackstatus __afazekas _ahale _amrith_ _elena_ _matthias_ aarefiev abramley achanda adahms adalbas adam_g Adri2000 aignatov aimon_ akamyshnikova akuznetsova alaski aleksandr_null_ alex_xu aloga alop alpha_ori amakarov_away ameade AmirBaleghi anderstj andreaf andreykurilin anteaya Apoorva aranjan armax asadoughi asettle asselin aweeks B_Smith_ banix | 23:47 |
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