Tuesday, 2015-05-26

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anteaya#startmeeting third-party08:01
openstackMeeting started Tue May 26 08:01:21 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:01
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openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)"08:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'third_party'08:01
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anteayaraise your hand if you are here for the third party meeting08:01
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anteayahere is the link to information about the current deadlines for cinder drivers08:04
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/064072.html08:04
anteayaand a proposal for a workflow for manila for third party ci08:05
anteaya#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-May/064086.html08:05
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anteayasince I see no attendance yet I'm going to wrap up this meeting08:11
anteayasee you next week08:11
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:11
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 26 08:11:34 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:11
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-26-08.01.html08:11
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-26-08.01.txt08:11
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-05-26-08.01.log.html08:11
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* lxsli is a zombie14:59
bauzas#startmeeting nova_scheduler15:00
openstackMeeting started Tue May 26 15:00:14 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is bauzas. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.15:00
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova_scheduler)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'nova_scheduler'15:00
bauzasmorning all15:00
bauzasas said, just an informal catch-up for people15:00
edleafegood mornooning to you15:00
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bauzasedleafe: I still owe you 2 beers :/15:01
lxsliyou should have settled that at the con bauzas - beer was free!15:01
edleafeI'll get 'em at the mid-cycle15:01
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bauzasedleafe: eh, hoping I'll be there15:01
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edleafelxsli: yeah - beer won't be free in Rochester15:02
lxsliso, no agenda?15:02
bauzasstill jet-lagged15:03
lxsliI started looking at that resource objects spec on Friday15:03
lxsliit needs some tweaks imo15:03
lxslihope to put up a dependent patch tomorrow so Jay can review the changes separately15:03
bauzaslxsli: jay is on vacation for this week AFAIK15:04
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lxsliok good, gives me time to stuff my brain back in my ear15:04
PaulMurraygreat, lets change the whole thing and get it merged :)15:04
edleafebauzas: yes, jay is away this week15:04
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bauzason my own, I wrote a few for the Reqspec object15:05
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bauzasokay, any other things to discuss now ?15:06
PaulMurraybauzas, do we use the same tracking page as last cycle?15:06
* edleafe is hoping for a short meeting...15:06
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bauzasPaulMurray: we'll have an etherpad page15:07
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bauzas#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/liberty-nova-priorities-tracking15:08
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bauzasokay, I think we're done now ?15:10
bauzashearing crickets15:11
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lxslibtw edleafe you put a bug on kilo list15:11
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lxsliactually nvm I can find the link15:12
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lxsli~endmeeting ?15:14
bauzaslxsli: yeah, I need to work on15:14
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"15:14
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 26 15:14:51 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)15:14
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-05-26-15.00.html15:14
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-05-26-15.00.txt15:14
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_scheduler/2015/nova_scheduler.2015-05-26-15.00.log.html15:14
lxslithanks all15:15
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ayoungNo Keystone meeting today18:13
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tchaypoGood morning party people18:56
tchaypoAlso anyone here for infra meeting18:56
clarkbwow its that time already18:58
grue_pmIt's still way too early <-:18:58
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tchaypoI'm almost jealous that I didn't get openplague18:59
tchaypoI feel like I missed out on the most exciting part of summit18:59
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mordredtchaypo: I may have been patient zero - this tells me that we did not hang out enough19:00
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jeblair#startmeeting infra19:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 26 19:02:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
jeblair#link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:02
jeblair#link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-05-19.03.html19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:02
jeblair#topic Actions from last meeting19:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:02
jeblairfungi check our cinder quota in rax-dfw19:02
jeblairi love that we're task tracking that here ;)19:02
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fungitrying that right now ;)19:03
jeblaircool, we'll tune back in later :)19:03
jeblair#topic Infrastructure project process changes (jeblair)19:03
jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/18281119:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Infrastructure project process changes (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
mtreinishjeblair: ooh, I like the sound of infra council19:04
yolandabeagles, that happens :)19:04
mtreinishdo you get hooded robes?19:04
jeblairi inserted this topic before the usual bits in the meeting because i think normally i would expect us to start talking about priority efforts, etc, now...19:04
jeblairmtreinish: yeah, we've just about run out of names for groups of people around here :)19:04
jeblairmtreinish: hoodies?19:04
mordredjeblair: I think we need robes19:05
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fungi24264/51200gb sata, 1124/25600gb ssd19:05
* fungi has no idea why cinderclient insists on a redundant tenant id for quota-usage19:05
mtreinishjeblair: heh, hoodies aren't quite as cool19:05
jeblairanyway, what i'd actually like to do is spend the next week working on getting all of that in place and hopefully running a spec through that process by next week19:05
jeblairi updated that change this morning in a way that i think addresses all the comments19:05
jeblairfungi: w00t, thx!19:06
jeblairso if folks could take a look at https://review.openstack.org/182811 today, that would be great19:06
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jeblairand in general, does that sound like a good plan to proceed?19:07
yolandajeblair, i like that updates19:07
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anteayadid I miss the discussion where we decided we needed a council?19:07
anteayaor is this it?19:07
SpamapSIndeed I think it addresses most of my concern which was the broadness of focus that it seemed was required to make progress toward infra core.19:07
fungianteaya: 182811 is the discussion19:07
pabelangerI had a chance to read it over the weekend, seems like a sane approach19:08
clarkbI have opened teh change and it will be next up in my review queue19:08
fungiti definitely feels like it formalizes a lot of what we already have in place informally (for current situations like jjb, project-config, devstack-gate, et cetera)19:09
mordredjeblair: great updates. +219:09
pleia2fungi: that's how I felt upon reading it too19:09
fungiand empowers those groups to give them more say in overall direction of the infra project19:09
jeblairso i'll spend the week working on the acl changes needed for that, and working on the specs repo19:09
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jeblairi also have this up, which is marginally related19:10
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jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/18333719:10
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jeblairanything else on this subject?19:12
mordredjeblair: super excited about both changes19:13
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit)19:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Upgrading Gerrit) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:13
clarkbupstream thinks they have narrowed down the jgit problem19:14
mordredI heard that someone may have found a maybe cause to this?19:14
zaroi think there's a test case we want to test out.  upload large files with lots of changes?19:14
fungi#link https://git.eclipse.org/r/4828819:14
clarkbzaro: and shorten the diff timeout19:14
jeblairyeah, i stuck this on here because i had an idea at the summit, which i communicated to zaro but wanted to discuss here19:14
fungithat seems to be the current change to watch which supposedly addresses this19:14
nibalizerall things that can be done on review-dev it sounds like19:14
clarkbtl;dr is if you get a diff timeout while processing a packfile jgit will treat that as being a corrupted pack and remove it from the list19:14
mordredwhich is not good19:14
jeblairwhich was, that if it is triggered by the diff timeout, we may be able to trigger on review-dev (without moving production data) just by uploading some changes with huge diffs19:14
jeblairnibalizer: exactly19:15
zaroi was wondering if we should just get a copy of review data instead ?19:15
fungiyeah, all i/o exceptions are not created equal it seems19:15
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clarkbjeblair: ++ but also shorten the timeout19:15
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jeblairzaro: our current plan was to sync review -> review-dev; but i'm suggesting we might be able to reproduce without doing that and it might be simpler.  i'm okay with either approach.19:15
clarkbjeblair: zaro but that should be very easy to prove on review-dev19:15
jeblairclarkb: good idea19:15
zarook. i was just thinking that we might need to do that anyway19:16
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zaroi mean run test against review data19:16
jeblairzaro: yeah, but maybe keep working on that in the background after this?19:16
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zarosure.  i said i would test this but just haven't gotten around to it yet.19:17
fungiahh, right, drop cache.diff.timeout to something like 1s or lower19:17
zarowill start it today.19:17
fungidefaults to 5s according to the docs19:17
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clarkbyup and the logs say we hit it at 5s on review.o.o19:17
jeblairzaro: cool, no problem.  it would be crazy if you had found time to do it since the summit.  :)  i just wanted to discuss it here so that it wasn't just something we talked about over lunch that one time.  :)19:18
clarkbits set in milliseconds iirc so easy to do subsecond values19:18
fungiso that's suspiciously coincidental19:18
fungiyeah, seems to support subsecond values19:18
zarojeblair: agreed, good to discuss.19:19
jeblair#action zaro configure review-dev for subsecond diff timeouts and test that "large" diffs trigger the jgit error19:19
jeblairanything else regarding priority efforts we should discuss?19:20
fungino new blockers i'm aware of19:20
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fungimostly trying to figure out where i left things before the conference amnesia set in19:21
clarkbmaybe the swift uploads?19:21
pleia2I think I discussed everything out at summit, so I'm good19:21
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clarkbwe are still not passing through non log data cleanly19:21
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clarkband it seems like every time we try to tackle that there is a suggestion to do more and more unrelated work19:22
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zaroi think there was discussion at summit to stand up a phabritcator.  new priority effort?19:22
clarkbits not bad work it just doesn't get us closer to the goal of host data that isn't logs in swift19:22
fungizaro: would probably be a new spec19:22
* mordred has spec for that on his TDL19:22
jeblair#topic Priority Efforts (Swift logs)19:22
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Swift logs) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:22
jeblairclarkb: yeah, i spoke with jhesketh about that -- i think he's writing that change?19:23
clarkbquick update is: we need a way to have os loganalyze pass through data in swift somehow19:23
clarkbjeblair: he is19:23
clarkbbut what has happened is we went from that to saying we should have os loganalyze be a devstack plugin so we can run integration tests with swift against changes to it19:23
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clarkbwhich has lead to lets fix devstack's handing of requirements so that os loganalyze can have requirements not in global reqs19:23
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jeblairthat sounds like a swell idea, but i'm not sure we need to block on that.  so let's have a chat with jhesketh when he's around and see if we can't separate those two efforts.19:24
clarkbright I think the work is valuable its just not helping us solve the problem hosting fiels in swift19:24
mtreinishclarkb: there should be a call in devstack to install from pip without g-r19:24
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clarkbmtreinish: sdague made it sound like there wasn't one that would work, but maybe there is19:25
fungiyeah, i think it cropped up because the last time that change was attempted it broke serving logs, so "get some testing" was a bit of a knee-jerk reaction to not breaking again19:25
mtreinishclarkb: hmm ok, I can take a look at it in a bit19:25
clarkbfungi: and that would be great if it wasn't snowballing into rewriting half the infrastructure19:25
jeblairi think sdague is away this week?19:26
mordredyes. he's out19:26
tchaypokeep in mind that jhesketh is in aus so it’s currently 5:26am for him19:26
mordredtchaypo: and for you too19:26
mordredtchaypo: I'm guessing we can blame jetlag for you being awake? :)19:26
tchaypoyes, but not everyone is an early bird like me19:26
tchaypono, I usually get up about this time anyway19:26
clarkbbut I think theer is a trivial change we can make to os loganalyze which is if root url is not htmlify/ then pass data through untouched19:26
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tchaypoclarkb: sounds pretty triial19:27
clarkband hopefully that is not controversial and we can just make that change to os loganalyze with the testing that we do have today (which we do have)19:27
jeblairclarkb: cool, let's discuss that with jhesketh and mtreinish later, and do that if we can19:27
fungii take it the earlier attempt which got reverted was nontrivial and so had unanticipated side-effects19:27
clarkbfungi: yes it was much more "correct" at the expense of being more complicated19:28
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clarkbjeblair: sounds good19:29
jeblair#topic Open discussion19:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:29
fungithe rename requests are starting to pile up19:29
jeblairmordred: so... "action mordred write a spec to move infra bugs to maniphest" ?19:29
mordredyah. I have several spec writing tasks for this week19:29
mordredthat's one of them19:30
jeblairfungi: oh, yeah, should put scheduling those on the agenda19:30
jeblair#action mordred write a spec to move infra bugs to maniphest19:30
mordredfungi: I think we should finish up my "rename projects" playbook before we do any sets that involve the puppet or chef repos19:30
fungimordred: great idea19:30
jeblairi just saw a governance change that looks like ironic-discoverd may also want to change its name19:30
SpamapSShould we add infra-cloud as a priority effort to the agenda?19:30
mordredfungi: maybe I'll grab you east coast morning and we can figure out how to test it19:31
jeblairSpamapS: i'll write a spec for infra cloud this week19:31
SpamapSjeblair: splendid19:31
anteayaI thought the documentation was the spec?19:31
funginot sure how i feel about the stackforge/ironic-discoverd -> openstack/ironic-discoverd rename when https://review.openstack.org/185442 is also proposed19:31
clarkbmordred: should be possible to use review-dev et al as a test bed19:31
fungiseems like we should maybe avoid renaming that twice in a short timeframe19:31
jeblairSpamapS: since the technical bits are happening over in system-config, i believe it will just describe the process and should be simpler19:31
jeblairanteaya: ^19:31
pleia2I mentioned this, but wrt infra-cloud docs, the tense on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180796/ is getting confusing19:32
pleia2maybe we can even this all out while writing the spec19:32
* mordred is also going to write a spec on shade - because it needs one19:32
mordredpleia2: ++19:32
jeblairsomething like "we will run a cloud, it will do this, these are the major steps that will happen, etc"19:32
mordredpleia2: I think it's because it's part docs, part spec right now19:32
pleia2mordred: yeah19:32
mordredpleia2: and should be all docs19:32
SpamapSpleia2: It is supposed to be present tense, but a spec would definitely make it easier to write in future tense.19:32
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pleia2SpamapS: nods19:32
jeblairyeah, i'll look at that too and try to help sort it out19:32
SpamapSalso specs tend to read more like logical tests than docs. "Infra-cloud shall xxx" can apply to the future or the present.19:33
mordredI feel an infra spec spec coming on ...19:33
jeblair#action jeblair write infra-cloud spec with SpamapS19:33
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mordredjeblair: while we're on that topic19:34
mordredwe started poking at getting full inventories for things - there are scripts to do this - but I'm not sure where/if they should live19:34
jeblairfungi, mordred: so let's kick rename discussion till next week's meeting, and poke the ironic folks about updating the change for discoverd19:34
jeblairmordred: if we ever get a new region, we might use them again, yeah?19:35
mordredat the moment, they're adhoc "please troll the machines for datas" scripts - so I'm thinking doing them live and checking them in later as docs is appropriate?19:35
mordredjeblair: yah19:35
mordredthey're useful in general19:35
nibalizeralso what do you do with the resulting data? throw that in a git repo too?19:35
jeblairmordred: or stick them in the tools/ dir?19:35
jeblair(of system-config)19:35
clarkbtools/ dir seems like a good home19:35
mordredor the playbooks dir (they're playbooks)19:35
greghaynesmordred: one issue is they are now tied to machine-information.json schema19:36
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mordredgreghaynes: well, that's still likely useful19:36
greghaynesnot sure how we want to deal with that interface, but its important that we pull ipmi info from somewhere19:36
mordredgreghaynes: as we'll want things to consume that in the future19:36
jeblairnibalizer: i imagine the resulting data should either show up in documentation ("this is the hardware we have") or config files ("do these things on this hardware")19:36
tchaypoIf we make the data public we need to exclude things like ipmi password19:36
jeblairmordred: ^ ?19:36
greghaynessure, if we want to say machine-information.json is the schema for that19:36
mordredjeblair: yes19:36
tchaypoAnd if we don't we need to store that separately19:36
mordredgreghaynes: I think it probably will be- but we'll need a thing that merges passwords from hiera19:37
fungijeblair: i've updated the project renames section of the agenda with ironic-inspector, and also noted that whoever originally added that item linked the stackforge->openstack governance change for the repo, not a project-config change19:37
mordredthe data all wants to be public, we probably want to write a thing taht turns it into nice looking sphinx docs tbh - and also ipmi passwords want to go into hiera19:37
nibalizerremember that you can always just call 'hiera keyname' from shell if that makes hacking easier19:37
mordredI dont' think we need to deal with hiera ipmi password merge in the first pass19:37
greghaynesyeaa, isnt hiera keyed by hostname too?19:37
mordredgreghaynes: not in the way this will be using it19:38
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mordredgreghaynes: the values will all be associated with the hostname of the bastion host, most likely19:38
nibalizergreghaynes: you can call 'hiera keyname filter=value filter=value'19:38
mordred"these are the ipmi passwords for the machines taht bastion host A wants"19:38
nibalizerif you need to inspect like that, but infra-hiera is amazingly flat++19:38
greghaynesyea, so then key them by mac like we are now?19:38
clarkbmordred: you could use a hash in there to line up with the hosts19:38
mordredand then the public data (the machine list) will get merged with that hiera data and the results will be puppet writing a machine-inforation.json file to disk on each bastion host19:39
mordredit's possible this is not the right forum to design this19:39
clarkbmordred: so bastion: { ipmi: { host1: passwd, host2: passwd } }19:39
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mordredclarkb: yes. that's exactly right19:39
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greghaynesAsking about that because we dont have permanent hostnames for these yet19:39
mordredI mainly brought it up to point out that there may be some useful scripts being hacked live at the moment that want to end up in system-config19:39
greghayneswe can move to #infra though19:40
mordredgreghaynes: right. that's why I think hiera merging is premature currently - these arent' REALLY part of the world yet19:40
SpamapSprobably want the serial of the box as the key for 'host1/host2' there, as that is the thing that will remain constant, but yeah, not a thing to meeting-ize.19:40
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ttxjeblair: just arriving. Did you mention irc-meetings ?19:41
* jeblair has the irc lag19:41
jeblairttx: no, but i have been working on cleaning that up19:42
jeblairttx: we didn't quite get everything right, but it's almost there :)19:42
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jeblairttx: i manually fixed the current state on eavesdrop, should be okay to declare it in production and start publicising it19:42
ttxCool. I'll sync with tonyb and make sure he has all the meetings in19:43
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fungiyeah, http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/ is looking usable now19:43
ttxoh, needed a force-reload19:44
mordrednice job everyone19:44
pabelangerfungi, nice!19:44
ttxwell "nice" is not the way to describe that current page19:44
clarkbI bet it renders great in w3m19:44
clarkbthats worthy of a nice :)19:44
ttxit's "ugly", hopefully enough for someone with skillz to fix it19:44
pabelangerHTML 1.0 FTW19:45
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fungiit's ugly enough to encourage someone to beautify it very soon, i'm sure19:45
ttxpabelanger: yes, guess who wrote that template19:45
* taron 's design senses are tingling19:45
ttxAt the very minimum a TOC would be nice :)19:45
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taroncould probably use some bootstrap or something of the sort as well19:46
fungieffective workflow: build something intentionally ugly, publicize it, wait for improvements from irritated web designers19:46
nibalizerpabelanger: timrc any grafana things to talk about?19:46
nibalizerfree time in the infra meeting is such a treat, jeblair++ for wizardry19:46
timrcNope.  Not on my end, pabelanger is doing all the work :)19:46
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pabelangerHmm, grafyaml is up in governance right now19:46
pabelangerso, that is moving forward19:47
mordredall hail the new grafyaml overlords19:47
nibalizertimrc: excellent, we can profit from his persperation19:47
nibalizeri also know that timrc has been kicking the tires on a public grafana module which is sweet19:47
* timrc slowly backs away from nibalizer 19:47
fungipabelanger: though we can add it to project-config before governance rubber-stamps since jeblair has already +1'd19:47
pabelangerI also have puppet-grafana rolling too: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179208/19:48
timrcThe bfraser-grafana is pretty decent.19:48
pabelangerbut some work left to do on it19:48
pabelangerfungi, roger19:48
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timrcpabelanger, Did you figure out a way to add datasources and organizations programmatically?  Was not sure if those things could be added through the API.19:48
timrcIf not, that could present a bootstrapping challenging.19:48
pabelangertimrc, no, not yet.  I need to do some sql magic to make them bits work.  Right now, it is a race to log in as admin / admin to change password once puppet launches the node19:49
mordredpabelanger: does the node need to be launched to generate the admin user?19:49
timrcpabelanger, You can control those settings from the puppet module.19:49
mordredpabelanger: like, could the puppet install pre-seed an admin user in the db?19:49
pabelangermordred, I need to check if the package support that, I don;t think so right now.19:50
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timrcpabelanger, So if you deploy with bfraser-grafana you can create a grafana.conf which allows you to set things like a secret key, admin credentials, default org, etc.19:50
pabelangerwe _could_ add support into the package for that pretty easy with dbconfig19:50
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pabelangertimrc, Interesting. I just googled a puppet-grafana module, not sure which I am using19:50
pabelangerusing the same19:51
nibalizeryou're using the same :)19:51
jeblairya: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179208/5/modules.env19:51
pabelangerYa, so need to just expose the bits for that19:51
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timrcpabelanger, https://forge.puppetlabs.com/bfraser/grafana <-- that works pretty well19:51
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pabelangertimrc, Yup, using the same. Just need to see how to provision the admin user from the config file now19:52
timrcBut yeah, I _think_ we should add the end points to add datasources and organizations if they do not exist, rather than doing something hacky.  But that's my own opinion.19:52
timrcSo that is upstream grafana work.19:52
pabelangerYup, don't see that as an issue19:53
yolandahow are you going to handle that? pull requests ? or forking the module?19:53
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timrcI would prefer pull requests.  But I've not worked with that community yet.19:53
jeblairwe should always try to work upstream19:54
ttxjeblair: should future irc-meetings chances get picked up automatically ? Or will you have to manually publish a few more times ?19:54
pabelangerYa, I don't want to fork the module19:54
yolandai worked with a pair of puppet modules, and it was super easy to engage people19:54
jeblairttx: until https://review.openstack.org/185677 and https://review.openstack.org/185678 land, changes to irc-meetings will probably actually break the site19:54
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jeblairttx: so we should go ahead and merge those and make sure they work19:54
* ttx has a quick look19:55
timrcyolanda, This will be upstream grafana work.  I do not think at this time we have any upstream puppet work to do re: grafana.19:55
yolandaah ok19:55
timrcBut hey, these end points could actually already exist.  We just need to confirm one way or the other.19:55
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rbradfor_A open question before we run out of time.  Is there any common place, e.g. blah.o.o where one can store this fedora image used by magnum dsvm functional test I mentioned in channel this morning.19:56
ttxjeblair: approved https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185678/19:56
jeblairrbradfor_: if it is created by a job in our system, it can be published to tarballs.o.o19:56
ttxand +1ed the other one19:56
jeblairrbradfor_: this happens with, eg, heat and trove images19:56
fungirbradfor_: after you left clarkb suggested that magnum and heat should collaborate on using one fedora image if possible19:57
yolandatimrc, looks like a challenging work19:57
pabelangerNot sure the timelines that grafana has, but we could do both.  Inject data into SQL, if we find the API is taking too long to merge.  And honestly, I have no idea what is needed in grafana to add support for it. But it doesn't hurt to look upstream and see19:57
rbradfor_jetblair: great I was going to suggest that.19:57
timrcpabelanger, Here is the start of our grafana module downstream: http://paste.openstack.org/show/238414/19:57
clarkbrbradfor_: yes my suggestion was that magnum determine what they need and determine how to make the existing fedora image caching work for magnum19:57
rbradfor_fungi I'll reach out to somebody at heat and see what I can determine.19:57
clarkbrbradfor_: but step 0 there is "what does magnum need from this image"19:57
fungirbradfor_: but since we lack insight currently into how that image is produced, i have no idea why it's special and not just the fedora image we already cache on our workers19:58
rbradfor_clarkb, the image is used as the base for kubernetus containers19:58
clarkbrbradfor_: yes but why is it special?19:58
clarkbrbradfor_: we already cache a half dozen images that could be used for containers19:58
fungie.g., preinstalled kubernetes packages? customized kernel?19:58
clarkb(give or take, I am not sure of the exact number)19:58
pabelangertimrc, Nice, looks similar, so that is good.19:58
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rbradfor_clarkb, I am not that familiar. Can you point me to the images that are cached so I can ask of the project.19:59
jeblairlet's follow that up in #infra19:59
jeblairthanks everyone!19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"19:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 26 19:59:47 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-26-19.02.html19:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-26-19.02.txt19:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-05-26-19.02.log.html19:59
fungigreat seeing so many of you at the summit!19:59
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mordredfungi: ++20:00
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jeblairand here!20:00
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ttxAnyone else here for the TC meeting ?20:00
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ttxrussellb, jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, flaper87, dtroyer, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann: around ?20:01
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ttxWe have a lot of people absent, so we might not reach quorum20:01
ttxwhich would be understandable20:01
ttxCurrently at 520:01
ttxI have a light agenda in case we are not enough20:01
ttxLet's start with that and see if we can tackle larger things (if one or two extra members join)20:02
ttx#startmeeting tc20:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 26 20:02:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:02
ttxToday's meeting agenda:20:02
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:02
ttxUnless a couple more people join we'll switch to an alternate light agenda20:03
ttxBut we have a few things we can cover first20:03
ttx#topic Add Scott Moser as extra-atc20:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Add Scott Moser as extra-atc (Meeting topic: tc)"20:03
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/18141520:03
ttxWe have enough to approve this one, unless there are last-minute objections20:03
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ttxok, approved20:04
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ttx#topic Prepare for M release name poll20:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Prepare for M release name poll (Meeting topic: tc)"20:04
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ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/18389320:05
ttxThis one is about setting the dates for the M naming, with a process starting next Monday20:05
ttx(which is why I wanted to cover it today)20:05
ttxIt's still missing a few +1s last time I looked20:05
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ttxlooks like it's all set now, barring last-minute objections20:05
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ttxok approved20:07
ttxmordred: you can run with it now20:07
russellbtoo much agreeing going on here20:07
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jeblairrussellb: no way20:07
mordredttx: woot20:07
* russellb just wanted to say something20:07
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* mordred waves at russellb20:08
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ttxrussellb: well, the light agenda is mostly rubberstamps20:08
* russellb waves back20:08
russellbttx: *nods* sounds good :)20:08
* krotscheck wants to propose Miyazaki, but that's probably copyrighted ;)20:08
* jgriffith shouts "NOODLES"20:08
ttxkrotscheck: it is a village name, so probably not20:08
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ttxwhich makes it double cool. I know20:08
krotscheckttx: Excellent, thank you :D20:08
mordredwhat about munich? it's also not in the US so must count, right?20:09
* fungi wants to see matsumoto and miyazaki fight to the death20:09
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ttxI suspect matsumoto is not a locatiopn though :P20:09
jgriffithto clarify I was just shouting somethign at random to make sure the mic was on here20:09
* mordred roots for morimoto20:09
jgriffithmordred: ohh.. I like that20:09
mordredjgriffith: I was thinking you were already voting for N names :)20:09
edleafe+1 to Miyazaki. I have family from there :)20:09
jgriffithmordred: yeah, it occured to me that might be the case :)20:09
krotscheckfungi: Throw Morimoto in the mix there :)20:10
ttxfungi: those japanese folks are apparently also named after places.20:10
ttx#topic Adds a resolution acknowledging UTC.20:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Adds a resolution acknowledging UTC. (Meeting topic: tc)"20:10
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/18243020:10
russellbnot convinced this resolution is needed/useful, either20:10
ttxThis one is a resolution to specifically call out usage of UTC.20:10
russellbbut not opposed20:10
ttxAs I commented on the review I would prefer those kind of things documented in the upcoming "Project Team Guide" since writing a resolution on that feels a bit like red tape20:10
ttxBut then we don't have that guide yet, so if enough TC members think it can't wait, I'm fine with this passing20:10
ttxI'm abstaining on that one to be faithful to my "stepping out of the way" principles20:11
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ttxalso known as "limit red tape usage"20:11
jgriffithttx: I'm fine either way, same opinion as russellb I think (doesn't hurt)20:11
markmcclainyeah... I'm really opposed just wondering the motivation... seems that when times are important the TZ is usually noted20:11
russellbwould be nice if it was solving a problem ... i'm sure we could think of lots of resolutions for things that aren't problems (yet)20:11
annegentlewith a guideline do we have to have some sort of policing then?20:11
markmcclain*not really opposed20:11
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ttxwe are at 6 +1s on that one20:12
jgriffithwell now I'm kinda rethinking my vote20:12
anteayato avoid a problem20:12
ttxrussellb: I think anteaya raised it because some things persisted in not using utc20:12
jgriffithfrom don't care so ok to "why"20:12
jgriffithand there's my answer :)20:12
anteayasince should there be a problem regarding use of utc for something that should have it the fix is rather painful20:12
anteayaas in having to restart an election20:12
russellbttx: in the review, anteaya said it was inspired by another community20:12
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mordredyah. the python elections in particular, in case anyone wants to go read up on the pain20:13
annegentleohhh. as in, everyone needs to know we always use UTC for deadlines?20:13
russellbmordred: i got added to psf-members at the most awesome time, right before that happened20:13
ttxrussellb: use of AOE was inspired by Python election mess yes20:13
anteayaannegentle: yes20:13
mordredrussellb: fun, right?20:13
jeblairttx: aoe?20:13
russellbanyway, still think it's harmless, so wfm20:13
ttxrussellb: it's good to see dysfunctional communities too, puts things in perspective20:13
anteayaanywhere in the world20:13
russellbjeblair: anywhere on earth20:13
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fungi(area of effect?)20:13
russellbas in AOE may 26 ... as long as it's still may 26 somewhere20:14
ttxjeblair: it's a special timzeone (as long as it's $DAY somewhere)20:14
russellbfor communicating deadlines or whatever20:14
anteayaat 2am my time there is no way I would get my head around anywhere on earth20:14
jeblairwow.  UTC ftw.20:14
ttxanteaya: maybe the same resolution could encourage usage of AOE in deadlines, then ?20:14
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markmcclainbut we've used AOE for merge deadlines in the past especially around milestones20:14
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anteayattx: my stance it to avoid AOE20:15
ttxanteaya: ah ok20:15
anteayaas I had been operating on the belief we don't use it20:15
mordredyah. AOE sounds terrible20:15
fungiwe already have people semi-permanently stationed in places which are not "on" earth and it's only a matter of time before one of them wants to be involved with python community elections ;)20:15
mordredUTC is a thing and it's clear20:15
annegentlefungi: bwah!20:15
mordredand we use it in logs and whatnot20:15
anteayaso I felt this was stating the obvious, not proposing a chance in behaviour20:15
ttxOK, we are at 720:15
jgriffith-100 fro AOE20:15
russellbUTC it is, moving on?  :)20:16
ttxI'll have to vote for it to approve it, because fun20:16
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* mordred hands ttx a nice pancake as a prize20:16
jeblairttx: i'm going to try to fix that this week20:16
ttxI'm recording my abstention in the comments, it's fine20:17
jeblair(but would recommend the 'leave a comment' process for now)20:17
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ttx#topic Add board-owned openstack/transparency-policy repo20:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Add board-owned openstack/transparency-policy repo (Meeting topic: tc)"20:17
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/18379120:17
ttxI suppose this one could have fallen in the "auto-approved after one week and no objection" bucket, but I'd rather make sure20:17
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ttxWill approve now unless someone objects20:17
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russellbi'm all for encouraging/supporting gerrit use for all the policy things20:18
ttxok approved20:18
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ttxnext two topics are difficult to discuss in absence of their authors. Let's skip to the Chef cookbooks and go back there if time left20:19
ttx#topic Adding the Chef cookbooks to OpenStack20:19
*** openstack changes topic to "Adding the Chef cookbooks to OpenStack (Meeting topic: tc)"20:19
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17500020:19
ttxThis one is back on the table after having taken steps to better align with the OpenStack process (like organizing IRC meetings)20:19
ttxAs I commented, I'd prefer it to behave like an OpenStack project for a bit, before we can assess if they are "one of us"20:19
ttxAfter all the question is "are you one of us", not "will you be one of us"20:19
j^2yeah are we the first that has this issue?20:19
ttxBasically I can't really judge at this point if you're doing open development and open design, since you only started to use the ML mid-April20:20
ttxj^2: I'd say that yes20:20
ttxBut maybe that's just me20:20
ttxAlso I don't think there is any hurry, we could reassess that in a couple of months, way before the end of the cycle20:20
annegentleI suppose for open design they'd also have to have sessions at a summit?20:20
ttxNote that I had reports of projects doing open design in a weird way at the summit, and that may have resulted in me being a bit more careful before saying "yes" to that question20:21
russellbi'm torn ... i think everything ttx says makes sense, but at the same time, it's such an obvious thing to include, and unless it's unclear which set of cookbooks would get included ... *shrug*20:21
ttxannegentle: well, I'm hapopy to act on the promise they will20:21
ttxand happy, even20:21
jeblairi'm okay with intent20:21
j^2we’ve been doing it the “openstack-way” forever, since we’ve started, it’s just the IRC meetings and Offical Mailing lists we felt on how small we were we’d get lost in the offical channels. We’ve made internal changes to make the diffences20:21
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annegentlehapopy's good20:22
j^2annegentle: we’ve have sessions at summit20:22
ttxAs I said, I won't block it or -1 it. Just would prefer to delay... so abstaining for now20:22
annegentlejeblair: intent or proof? Sorta depends on your view of the TC's role here20:22
russellbttx: it's another topic, but i'm interested in hearing more about your "weird" summit reports20:22
annegentlej^2: cool, thanks for that input20:22
mordredI'm +1 on this, btw20:23
* russellb +1 on the chef thing20:23
annegentlej^2: and I do understand the "lost" feeling :)20:23
ttxWe are at 6 +1s20:23
j^2i’d just like to know what we need to do, we have some people gated on helping because we havent been brought in yet :(20:23
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j^2but it’s all good, we can wait if needed20:23
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jeblairannegentle: i mean that i am happy to accept someones statement of intent about how they operate the project in accordance with the community; especially in this case where i think it's fairly clear.20:23
ttxj^2: ok, that 's a good point, if delaying will block you more, maybe not worth it20:24
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j^2yeah it’s the stamp that they are waiting for20:24
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jeblairbut i also think that admission to openstack is reversible :)20:24
ttxI mean, if delaying has a hidden cost on you onboarding people, then delaying is not such a good idea20:24
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jgriffithsigh, I wish that wasn't an issue, but sadly seems it still is20:24
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annegentleI'd like to see a trust established with TC and teams, so I'm +120:25
j^2ttx: from the conversations I’ve been having including at summit, if we were in the tent i’d have a signifigant community help appear20:25
ttxOK, it looks like you reached majority vote. Let me check if anyone registered a strong -1 in the past that we should wait for them20:25
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j^2nice :D thanks everyone :D20:25
ttxLooks like jeblair was the only one to -1 in the past so we are a go20:26
ttxapproving in 15 seconds, if anyone wants to rush a vote20:26
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ttxalright, approved !20:27
j^2rock on, thank you everyone!20:27
ttxj^2: congrats!20:27
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annegentlej^2: welcome!20:27
* mordred hands j^2 a celebratory celery20:27
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* j^2 tips hate20:27
russellbdoes that celery come with a drink?20:27
j^2wow, i’m excited sorry20:28
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mordredrussellb: it did. but I drank it20:28
russellbmordred: good man20:28
mordredrussellb: so it might be mildly soggy20:28
j^2can’t type it seem20:28
mordredj^2: :)20:28
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ttx#topic Add tc-approved-release tag for trademarkable projects20:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Add tc-approved-release tag for trademarkable projects (Meeting topic: tc)"20:29
ttxWe now have two proposals up. One tries to be comprehensive:20:29
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/17979920:29
ttxthe other starts with a minimal assertion and lets us incrementally improve that:20:29
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/18247420:29
ttxdhellmann not being around we can't really discuss it too much20:29
ttxFTR I like the second approach since it lets us remove the "integrated-release" tag and refine our stand on the tc-approved-release over time20:29
ttxThis tag final content is the TC decision anyway (as per the bylaws), so starting by stating that is probably a good bet20:29
russellbyup, let us debate it and worry about if/when changing the contents becomes an actual issue20:30
ttxQuick comments on that one ?20:30
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russellbto be clear, i'm advocating the minimal approach20:30
mordredme too20:30
zaneb+1 for minimal approach with the change dhellmann already agreed to in the comments20:31
ttxOK, looks like we should have a winner soon20:31
ttxSince sdague is not around, I propose we skip the next topic for this week20:31
ttxIn the mean time, provide comments on the review20:32
zanebttx: that's no fun ;)20:32
russellbkind of surprised that one is so contentious20:32
ttx#topic TC communications workgroup report20:32
*** openstack changes topic to "TC communications workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)"20:32
ttxannegentle: how are things ?20:32
annegentlettx: we started an etherpad, and did some note taking20:33
annegentleduring the week20:33
annegentleI'd like to know what we want to communicate about the tagging reviews20:33
ttxI try to keep time in open discussion so people can flag items to communicate20:33
annegentleand about the summit -- highlights such as board/tc meeting, also the glance decision and probably zaqar comms, do we want to point to those?20:33
annegentlebring 'em20:34
annegentleplease :)20:34
annegentlewhere's my partner in crime flaper87?20:34
russellbcouldn't make it today20:34
annegentleoh yeah20:34
annegentletiming? This week?20:34
annegentle(I'd like to this week, I'm off to Google I/O tomorrow so might have flight time to formulate)20:34
ttxannegentle: about tags, I would mention that discussion is ongoing on tc-approved-release and kernel:compute20:35
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annegentlettx: yup.20:35
zanebannegentle: I think he's around in general, just not specifically right now20:35
annegentlezaneb: ok, good20:35
ttxannegentle: anything else you wanted to mention ?20:35
annegentleanything at the summit sessions to highlight?20:35
annegentlettx: do you want to describe weirdness?20:35
annegentleor offline so we can discuss how to communicate more widely?20:36
ttxannegentle: summit sessions output should result in thread to confirm proposed decisions20:36
ttxso I don't think we need to post them in the TC highlights20:36
mordredannegentle: do we want to say anything summarizing things learned/decided about nova-net/neutron?20:36
ttxAgree that the board+TC meeting could use some coverage though20:36
mordredpeople probably want some knowledge on that20:36
annegentlemordred: Yes, would like to have that in there.20:36
annegentlemordred: heck, I don't know what was learned/decided.20:36
annegentlewill take some journalism20:36
ttxmordred: I suspect they want to run a ML thread on that first -- decisions at Design Summit are not final20:37
* mordred looks at mestery and sc68cal and sdague as people who may know such things20:37
mordredttx: wait - what? I decide all sorts of things finally at the summit. *headdesk*20:37
* jeblair remembers when they were final :)20:37
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annegentleonce upon a time20:37
ttxjeblair: my decisions there are final. Oh wait20:37
mesterymordred ttx: Agree, ML may be best there20:37
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ttxISTR we said that anything decided at summit must at least be MLed, even if the decision is basically made20:38
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ttxto give a chance for non-attendees to catch up20:38
mordredannegentle: _I_ learned that the primary issue between nova-net and neutron has actullay worked for ages it just basically wasnt documented20:38
annegentlemordred: Eesh.20:38
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annegentlemordred: can you send me a write up for that?20:39
markmcclainyeah.. we identified some doc gaps20:39
ttxannegentle: board+TC report might need some authoring, yes20:39
annegentlettx: yep20:39
markmcclainbut there was 2-3 UX and real feature gaps20:39
annegentlemarkmcclain: you too, write it up20:39
mordredannegentle: the argument of "migrating from non-sdn to sdn is hard/complex/impossible" was never met with "you don't have to have SDN with neutron"20:39
markmcclainannegentle: will do20:39
annegentleso we have API parity maybe kinda sorta?20:39
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russellbi thought the outcome was pretty sane, a list of concrete achievable work items20:39
mesteryrussellb: ++20:40
russellbso now, need to identify clear owners of each item20:40
russellbfollow up on them throughout the cycle20:40
ttxannegentle: anything else you need to cover ?20:40
mordredannegentle: this: http://docs.openstack.org/networking-guide/deploy_scenario4b.html helped many things btw20:40
anteayaannegentle: this is the etherpad with priority items: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-nova-network20:40
russellband then we revisit in 6 months to come up with the next list that will likely come up :)20:40
mesteryrussellb: The plan is to discuss that during neutron meeting next week and identify those owners on the neutron side20:40
annegentlemordred: oh good!20:40
russellbmestery: ++20:40
russellbmestery: i can take one20:40
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anteayaitem 1 is up for review20:41
russellbmestery: maybe the live upgrade test job20:41
russellbanyway, i'll just show up to that meeting20:41
ttxOK, let's move on?20:41
mesteryrussellb: ack, cool.20:41
ttxannegentle: anything else you wanted to mention ?20:42
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annegentleI don't think so. is this week imperative?20:42
ttxannegentle: you set your deadlines :)20:42
annegentleby "I don't think so" I mean I think the content outline is good. But want input on deadline.20:42
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annegentleProbably has to be by end of this week to be relevant, newsy.20:42
ttxbetter before eow, but frankly, as you can20:43
ttxyou defined the rules after all20:43
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ttxok, I guess we can move on20:44
ttx#topic Project Team Guide workgroup report20:44
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*** openstack changes topic to "Project Team Guide workgroup report (Meeting topic: tc)"20:44
ttxNot a lot of progress in the last two weeks20:44
ttxNext steps are to finalize the outline at:20:44
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/project-team-guide20:44
ttxThen set up a date for a virtual sprint. I was thinking around June 18-1920:44
ttxwould that work for the present WG members ?20:45
ttxOnce we have a date that works I'll call for community participation to this20:45
ttxthe more the merrier20:45
jeblairttx: afaik, yes20:46
annegentlebring it20:46
ttxI think the other conspirators are not present, so I'll circle back with them20:46
ttxanything else on that topic ?20:46
jeblairttx: i might want to start writing some things before the sprint20:46
ttxjeblair: I might too. Lots of planes20:46
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russellbi'll be out of town20:47
russellbon a beach, drinking20:47
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ttxjeblair: do we need to set up something ? Or just write on separate documents in the mean time ?20:47
jeblairttx: did we decide on a repo yet?20:47
russellbbut probably tough to have a date that works for everyone so don't block on me20:47
ttxjeblair: we didn't20:47
ttxcan be openstack/project-team-guide and owned by TC20:47
jeblairthat works for me20:48
ttxjeblair: care to propose it ?20:48
jeblairwhy don't i go ahead and start the process to bootstrap that20:48
jeblairaction me :)20:48
ttx#action jeblair propose openstack/project-team-guide repo20:48
ttx#topic Other workgroups20:48
*** openstack changes topic to "Other workgroups (Meeting topic: tc)"20:48
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ttxThere were ideas mentioned in the previous meetings, but nobody has picked those up yet, afaict20:49
ttx- a scuba team to deep-dive into projects, discover issues ad help them fix those (lifeless, markmcclain, jaypipes)20:49
ttx(I think lifeless called it the architecture team, but I prefer the scuba team)20:49
ttx- a manifesto team to work on basic design tenets (flaper87)20:49
ttx- a crossproject team to fix cross-project specs and the cross-project meeting (ttx? dhellmann?)20:49
ttxso if you care about one of those, just step up and run with it20:50
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ttx#info Proposed date for Project team guide virtual sprint around June 18-1920:50
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:51
ttxAlrighty. Anything anyone ?20:51
ttxOr should we just suggest other M names20:51
* krotscheck is interested in participating on that cross-project team.20:52
ttxkrotscheck: note that I'll ask for suggestions on how to fix those in the next meeting20:52
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ttxkrotscheck: so we can start there :)20:52
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krotscheckttx: Works for me!20:53
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ttxOpenStack is MINE20:53
russellbso many lists!20:53
russellblist of lists ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Lists_of_places_in_Japan20:54
russellbjeblair: heh, turns out that exists20:54
ttxrussellb: I don't remember what the new rules allow20:54
ttxI think it's city names first but I may be mistaken20:54
jeblairttx: "human or physical geography"20:54
markmcclainshould we try to select places that are actually within Tokyo this time?20:54
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ttxmarkmcclain: you can /try/20:55
russellbwould love to hear suggestions / preferences from japanese community members20:55
zanebMeguro is a "Special ward of Tokyo" according to that first list20:55
ttxIn other news... the Ops took the tags and ran away with them. See https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-ops-tags20:56
zanebalso Minato20:56
russellbttx: awesome20:56
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ttxTheir only request is that they own the definition of tags under the ops: namespace20:56
ttxWe can reject them but not nitpicking them to death20:56
russellbwho is "they" exactly?20:56
ttxThe "Ops Tags" workgroup. An open group, under the responsibility of the User Committee afaict20:57
ttxI tols them to work on the legitimacy angle so that people unhappy with their tags can be controlled20:57
jeblairsome of those look _fantastic_.  some seem to have some overlap with things i think we will want to apply, eg "ops:docs-end-user-guide-available"20:57
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ttxyes, I want to engage early and steal the ones that are more relevant under our umbrella20:58
markmcclainttx: cool seems a little strange that we picked a place 1600+ km away from the summit site... would be like choosing Oslo for the Barcelona summit20:58
annegentleoh the ops tags should probably go into the tc summit update also?20:58
ttxbut I'm happy to give them the "deployed-a-lot" one20:58
russellbjust would like "they" more well defined than anyone who self-identifies as "ops", so it's accountable to some group20:58
jeblairrussellb: yep20:58
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markmcclainrussellb; ++20:58
russellbbut love that people are jumping on this20:59
annegentlerussellb: it's sort of what we do with the api working group, self-identifying works ok there20:59
ttxannegentle: mentioning that they just love the idea, yes20:59
jeblairin general, i think it's great, would like the group to be well defined, and for us to not overlap tags.  i think we can work through those and then i think i will be happy with them owning those tags we agree should be under ther purview.20:59
annegentleI think the metrics work well tied to the user survey data20:59
ttxyes, ideally TC members would be involved in their workgroup and make sure we solve those issues upstream rather than downstream20:59
lifelesshi, sorry I'm not really here - I have open plague in buckets.20:59
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lifelessI'm +1 on all the things21:00
annegentleand I don't see too much overlap, I see collab mostly21:00
ttxso just a heads-up at this point21:00
jeblairlifeless: you win ending the meeting21:00
ttxannegentle and myself were at their working session21:00
annegentlelifeless: I told my 8-year-old about "nerdflu" and he thought it was the best name ever21:00
ttxAlright, time is out21:00
annegentlelifeless: get better!21:00
ttxI have a mild case of nerdflu21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 26 21:00:56 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-26-20.02.html21:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-26-20.02.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-05-26-20.02.log.html21:01
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lifelessannegentle: thanks!21:01
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russellbah, the conference plague ...21:02
morganfainberglifeless: yes recover from the OpenPlague21:02
ttxcourtesy PTL ping: devananda, dims, morganfainberg, notmyname, gordc, nikhil_k, thingee, stevebaker, david-lyle, mestery, SlickNik, SergeyLukjanov, johnthetubaguy: around ?21:02
morganfainbergttx: o/21:02
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morganfainbergttx: \o21:02
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ttx#startmeeting crossproject21:02
openstackMeeting started Tue May 26 21:02:46 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:02
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'crossproject'21:02
ttxToday's agenda:21:02
ttx#link http://wiki.openstack.org/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting21:02
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ttx#topic Design Summit feedback21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit feedback (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:03
ttxLast week was the Liberty Design Summit, as you may have noticed21:03
ttxWe did a feedback session there with the survivors, but I realize not everybody was there21:04
ttxWe put the feedback to:21:04
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/YVR-design-summit-feedback21:04
ttxAnything specific anyone wanted to mention, while the memories are still clear ?21:04
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bknudsonat least for keystone the work session rooms were the right size.21:04
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notmynamelooks like some of the comments I heard are in that etherpad: need projectors in work sessions, work sessions too short21:05
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ttxAt the feedback, only neutron was really off, with too many people everywhere21:05
notmynameoverall I liked the format for fishbowl+work+meetup21:05
jokke_ttx: one thing I noticed hard way on the conference side (not sure where to feedback that), no wutah for the speakers21:05
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dimsttx: the red apron(?) for ATC(s) and associated warnings was a bit off putting21:05
johnthetubaguyI think Nova was happy to the same again next time, although a smaller room would have worked, an extra monitor/projector in the meetup would be handy21:05
ttxnotmyname: I think we would add a monitor in every work room. Would that work ?21:05
johnthetubaguyso yeah, I think its all captured21:06
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notmynamettx: yea, a large-ish monitor would work too21:06
morganfainbergdims: ++ I had to ask people to move forward constantly21:06
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ttxdims: I think we'll just keep the red thing but remove warnings. So that people can say "if you want to discuss, move to the red seats"21:06
dimsttx: awesome!21:06
notmynamettx: I also really liked cheddar for the scheduling, especially the ability to tag things for more than one track21:06
ttxhappy to just remove them though, but some people said they were useful in session21:06
morganfainbergttx: ++ yeah just no warning would have been good.21:06
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ttxnotmyname: I'll make sure whatever we use for next time has the same capabilities21:07
notmynameI think the 2 schedules was kinda silly. no need for that level of obfuscation21:07
mestery++ for cheddar scheduling21:07
mesteryFor Neutron, my feedback is that we can never have a room that holds less than 200 people again :)21:07
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mesteryWe had 100+ people in our work group rooms21:07
dimsttx: request the design summit area be open for folks earlier than they were (heard some complaints)21:07
mesteryIt made it uncomfortable21:07
ttxmestery: so looks like you should have requested only fishbowls (and nova should have requested a mix)21:08
ttxif people will find Neutron however we hide it...21:08
mesteryttx: Yes, I've learned my lesson :)21:08
thingee+1 cheddar is good21:08
mesteryttx: Actually, if you could make all our sessions be BEFORE 10AM of the local timezone we'd be ok as well ;)21:08
jokke_mestery: or come up with even more repelling work session names21:08
dimswireless was good, had enough plugs for charging. so +121:09
johnthetubaguyttx: not sure we had any work sessions in Nova really, just folks didn't turn up in droves, as they normally seemed to, but thats OK I think21:09
ttxjokke_: "Useless Neutron work session: we won't mention Docker here"21:09
anteayaflash mob for neutron21:09
mesteryjokke_: In one session around ironic/neutron integration, I asked how many of the 100+ people would be contributing code, and 40+ people raised their hands. o_O21:09
bknudsonat least for keystone our work sessions really had no topic21:09
bknudsonmaybe that helped21:09
ttxmestery: so who are the other ones ? Managers of the contributors ?21:10
morganfainbergbknudson: because of the short windows, i think the "no fixed topic" was a bit help21:10
mesteryttx: Lurkers and tourists21:10
jokke_mestery: at that point "Rest of you out so we can actually preserve the available oxygen for the people who do!"21:10
jrollmestery: yeah, that one was a mess, I have no idea how that happened (only 2-3 of those were ironic folks) :|21:10
ttxThe less likely place I would have a vacation to is one of those Neutron fishbowl rooms21:10
mesteryIt was very odd21:10
mesteryttx: lol21:11
bknudson40 mins did make it unlikely that anything would get completed.21:11
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ttxbknudson: for work sessions ? Or both ?21:11
thingeecinder working session had someone passed out on the ground snoring. ground breaking development in progress21:11
morganfainbergttx: work sessions21:11
morganfainbergttx: as we discussed in the feedback session21:11
ttxmorganfainberg: yes, I think we should allow double work sessions21:11
jungleboyjthingee:  My topics are just that exciting!21:11
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ttxoslo work sessions included sun bathing21:12
dims++ :)21:12
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jungleboyjttx ++21:12
fungialso plane watching21:12
mesteryThe oslo folks know how to do things the right way :)21:12
bknudsonwe did double up a keystone work session and that left more time.21:12
morganfainbergmestery: ++21:12
ttxAlright. If you have further feedback, you can add it to that etherpad at the bottom, or send me email21:12
notmyname+1 to having double work sessions. I had people say that the rapid context switching was hard21:12
ttxI have no idea what Tokyo holds for us so hard to make commitments right now21:12
jungleboyjSorry I am late, but I thought the set up of everything worked quite well!21:12
annegentlettx: other than it's only 5 months away :)21:13
ttxand that it fully overlaps with conference21:13
krotscheckI'm guessing tokyo will have less sunbathing and more pod hotels.21:13
ttxok, back to work21:13
ttx#topic CORS Support for OpenStack (krotscheck)21:13
*** openstack changes topic to "CORS Support for OpenStack (krotscheck) (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:13
krotscheckHi hi!21:13
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179866/21:13
ttxkrotscheck: hi! Care to introduce the topic ?21:13
krotscheckSo, CORS is a spec published by the w3c that permits selective breaking of the browser's single-origin policy.21:14
krotscheckIn short, an API can say: You there, on that domain, running in a browser, you're allowed to talk to me too.21:14
krotscheckThis permits javascript clients to talk to the APi directly, rather than having to proxy through something like horizon.21:14
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johnthetubaguykrotscheck: thats all about adding oslo middleware I guess?21:15
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bknudsonso horizon needs it?21:15
krotscheckjohnthetubaguy: Mostly. The middleware's already landed.21:15
bknudsonwhy middleware?21:15
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krotscheckbknudson: I chose middleware because it was framework agnostic.21:15
krotscheckIt's a wsgi thing.21:16
krotscheckSo it doesn't try to force you into pecan, flask, etc etc.21:16
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jrollbknudson: the code needs to be in any api server a browser client would talk to, if that wasn't clear21:16
ayoungIt was kindof weird that we would have two keystone sessions back to back, but would have to jump rooms depending on "fishbowl" or "work"21:17
ayoungits like " ok, everyone, time to move to a new room"  and then move en masse21:17
ayoungnot a huge problem, though21:17
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krotscheckCurrent potential consumers are in the spec, but include Horizon (not yet on the roadmap, as this spec hasn't landed), merlin (mistral), ironic-webclient, etc.21:17
bknudsonalso, not sure why this is cross-project and not just oslo.middleware?21:18
bknudsonwhat do we need to do in keystone for example?21:18
bknudsonit's not enabled by default, I assume.21:18
krotscheckIt is not.21:18
krotscheckI have an example patch up for ironic: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/180680/21:18
johnthetubaguykrotscheck: this spec proposes its on by default I guess?21:19
bknudsonit would be helpful to get a call on whether paste.ini is a config file or "code"21:19
ttxayoung: keeps the team healthy21:19
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notmynamethe idea of "let's support CORS" seems reasonable. I'm leery of reimplementing swift's existing functionality for this and the associated risk that assumes21:19
krotscheckjohnthetubaguy: It proposes that it be included, but since the middleware doesn't activate itself without a configuration, it ends up being a no-op.21:19
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krotschecknotmyname: From what I understand, swift's implementation just mirrors back the url provided by the client.21:19
johnthetubaguykrotscheck: gotcha21:20
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krotschecknotmyname: I could be wrong.21:20
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krotschecknotmyname: If I'm not, that's an xss exploit waiting to happen.21:20
devanandabknudson: the reason for cross project proposal is that it requires a change in the API service, eg. loading the middleware and enabling it, and if we go this route, it should probably be consistent across projects that want such an API21:20
notmynamekrotscheck: it's configurable per-container as to how CORS support is enabled21:21
notmynamekrotscheck: but if there is a bug, please report it :-)21:21
bknudsonfor keystone we've got a paste config file so you can put whatever middleware you want in there21:21
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krotschecknotmyname: Sounds like we need to discuss more details on how this would work for swift.21:21
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ayoungIn general, access to the Keystone token in a specific header should deal with the XSRF attacks.21:21
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etoewsmiguelgrinberg: you'll be interested in this topic ^21:22
ayoungXSS is a little different21:22
krotscheckbknudson: That config file doesn't permit middleware to explicitly hook into oslo.21:22
miguelgrinbergetoews: hi, and thanks21:22
stevebakerayoung: would this not all be a non-issue if all services + horizon ran on the same IP, default port? I recall you proposing such a thing21:23
krotscheckbknudson: Design request from dhellmann and dims was to make passing oslo's CONFIG object explicitly, rather than implicitly.21:23
notmynamettx: what's the question with this meeting topic? is there a particular resolution or action that needs to be taken?21:23
devanandastevebaker: different ports ...21:23
morganfainbergbknudson: the way I see it ( krotscheck correct me if i'm wrong ) CORS just informs a browser it is "ok", but all thread modling/access control still remains the same21:23
ayoungstevebaker, I only proposed making it possible21:23
bknudsonyou could set up apache to proxy the APIs then you wouldn't have to worry about CORS.21:23
ayoungbut I would not say that solves the problem, as that menas only one endpoint of each service21:23
devanandaso yea, if all the services ran on the same port, it would be a non-issue, except they dont (and can't)21:23
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ttxnotmyname: it's a proposed cross-project spec, so it would be good to know which projects are happy with it and which are not21:23
ayoungand we should be able to have multiple endpoints21:23
krotscheckbknudson: That doesn't work in the case of an API that decalres dependencies as absolute URI's.21:23
notmynamettx: ok :-)21:23
ayoungits not just a port issue, but hostname as well21:23
krotscheckbknudson: You'd have to have apache rewrite all those links.21:24
ayoungI mean, yes, if all the services were on 443 on the same host, you don't need  CORS21:24
krotscheckbknudson: Example: Ironic.21:24
notmynameI'd consider it a long-term, low-priority thing for swift (since we already have CORS support)21:24
devanandattx: iroinc is happy with it21:25
krotscheckmorganfainberg: That is correct. It just says "You're allowed to talk to this API"21:25
ttxnotmyname: right, unless it's incomplete/broken and krotscheck can prove it :)21:25
bknudsonok, so we're not going to be able to put this middleware in our paste pipeline(s)... then we do have some work to do for keystone21:25
notmynamettx: right :-)21:25
krotscheckttx, notmyname: Even then, it's pretty important to make sure swift's awesome container-scoped CORS is supported.21:26
morganfainbergbknudson: yeah. This is something that needs to follow the wsgi-layer fix for us.21:26
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ttxkrotscheck: indeed21:26
bknudsony, we're going to use flask.21:26
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morganfainbergbknudson: or it could be a lot of redundant work.21:26
notmynamekrotscheck: I have no problems with the idea, and having read the CORS spec many times, I think it's hard to read and very confusing. I'd love for it to be SEP ;-)21:26
notmyname(Someone Else's Problem)21:27
krotschecknotmyname: By which you mean, mine? The oslo team's?21:27
notmynameheh. mostly "not mine" ;-)21:27
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jokke_notmyname: middleware and deployers responsibility to put it in the pipeline if feeling so?21:27
* krotscheck doesn't know whether he can paint himself pink, and he's fresh out of italian bistro's.21:27
notmynamethat's the advantage of having the common code. you only have to solve it once21:27
annegentlekrotscheck: I may not be able to formulate my question well, but at the api docs session we talked about using Python's routes to auto-generate some API reference info.21:28
annegentlekrotscheck: do you expect another middleware would help or hurt that effort?21:28
krotscheckannegentle: Had a conversation with someone during the ironic hack day about that.21:28
annegentlekrotscheck: guess it depends on configuration.21:28
jrollnotmyname: I think it's a solvable problem for swift; I see the shorter-term solution as using the middleware for the base api stuff, and then the swift built-in stuff for per-container things21:28
krotscheckannegentle: I think the answer is: Both.21:28
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annegentlekrotscheck: ha. Grrreeeeeaaaaattttt.21:28
krotscheckannegentle: Help, because you can build swagger reference apps, that can be hosted anywhere, and talk to any API endpoint if it's properly configured.21:29
krotscheckannegentle: Not help, because more documentation :/21:29
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krotscheckannegentle: But we did just manage to land the Config Reference autogenerator for oslo_middleware.21:30
bknudsonhorizon and custom UIs might one day require this config.21:30
ttxAlright, I think that's a nice overview/tour21:30
annegentlekrotscheck: okay. well, we don't need swagger reference app right away, we just want a JSON smoothie that we can build docs from. If I'm prevented from making my JSON smoothie I'm sad.21:30
ttxNow it would be awesome if it translated to +1s on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/179866/21:30
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ttx(or -1s for the matter)21:30
krotscheckannegentle: The only big catch is that, because of a browser's single origin policy, the error message from the browser itself is _not_ helpful if CORS isn't configured, and it's only accessible to people who happen to have the dev console open.21:30
krotscheckannegentle: I'd be more than happy to provide any necessary ingredients for your smoothie :)21:31
annegentlekrotscheck: ok, yup.21:31
annegentlekrotscheck: awesome.21:31
bknudsonjavascript must raise an exception if you violate cors.21:31
ayoungIf we go the CORS approach, and Horizon becomes a straight Javascript app, I think we would be heading the right direction.  Then  Horizon would use the same web APIs as the CLIs.21:31
etoewsannegentle: this wouldn't be a blocker for the api doc stuff21:31
annegentleit might be a slurry. we're not real sure yet21:31
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annegentleetoews: ok cool. in a way it might help with consistency if we can set it locally while generating the docs21:31
ayoungThe degenerate case would then be the all-in-one install or the proxy/rewrite...I think we would have a range of options21:32
annegentle"it" being "use CORS middleware please"21:32
krotscheckIt also permits each openstack service to build their own UI, should they want one, without having to depend on Horizon.21:32
devanandaayoung: you have seen what I like about this :)21:32
etoewsmight cause some bumps. could be another issue needing a spike solution to see if we can work with it.21:32
annegentleetoews: I'll add to etherpad21:32
ayoungdevananda, I've been a proponent for a while.21:32
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Madasikrotscheck: that sounds like it could get confusing fast21:33
krotscheckFrankly, the next big step would be to build JS-novaclient and js-keystonelcient and other things like that which can be used in whatever UI devs want to throw together.21:33
miguelgrinbergetoews, annegentle: this shouldn't affect our ability to get the JSON data as we discussed last week, and it will help with issuing requests directly from the web based docs, so win-win in my view.21:33
bknudsonlet's switch to node.js21:33
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krotscheckbknudson: please no.21:34
devanandaso far I've only really talked to krotscheck about it, but having browser-based UI that talks directly to the API(s) is win, in my opinion21:34
ayoungkrotscheck, when I said "What this spec needs to show is where it should be in the pipeline for each of the projects."  Is that, if you are modifying the paste pipelines, thie needs to be before auth_token middleware21:34
ttxit is win21:34
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ayoungand if there are any other middlewares that it also needs to preceed21:34
bknudsonayoung: we were told that it can't be in the paste pipeline.21:34
krotscheckayoung: Gotcha. what bknudson said.21:35
ttxkrotscheck: ok.. anything else you wanted to cover ? Hopefully more people will vote on the spec now that it's been put in front of them21:35
krotscheckayoung: dhellmann and dims requested that passing the config object should be explicit, not implicit.21:35
ayoungbknudson  and that also is now in the spec...I assume...I'm re-viewing21:35
krotscheckNope, I'm good!21:35
ttxLast questions on that topic ?21:35
devanandaannegentle: re: autogenerating API docs discussion, this is the output of our autodoc runs: http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ironic/webapi/v1.html21:35
annegentledevananda: yep I've studied :)21:36
devanandaannegentle: :)21:36
krotscheckttx: One question: How many +2's do I need?21:36
ttxkrotscheck: you actually need a general consensus... the TC usually picks up the spec once it has lots of +1s and will +2 it if it feels there is "consensus"21:36
ttxby general I mean lazy21:37
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krotscheckttx: Works for me :)_21:37
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ttxso exposing the spec at this meeting is to encourage people to express their +1/-1 on the spec so we can bring it to the next level21:37
ttx#topic Suggestions to evolve this meeting format in Liberty21:38
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ttxThis actually is a great intro to our next topic21:38
ttxI'm looking at suggestions on how to improve this meeting for the upcoming cycle21:38
ttxlooking *for* I mean21:38
ttxand the cross-project specs workflow in general21:38
ttxIMHO it's not working that well, but it's still better than nothing I think21:38
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ttxSo if you have suggestions on how to improve those please let me know21:39
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ttxIn particular I think not having a clear attendance list for the meeting makes it a bit random21:39
ttxA lot of people also seem to ignore specs until we raise them in-meeting21:39
johnthetubaguyttx: I should write up the details from the project management sessions21:39
johnthetubaguysome good ideas for cross project epics, a little like the specs, but slightly different focus21:40
jokke_I think we would need to clarify more between x-proj specs and oslo specs ... seems that lots of x-proj could just be dealt within oslo and adobted if necessary by projects. On the other hand This is nice to get heads up from people who thinks the spec affects many21:40
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jungleboyjI get the feeling that people are afraid to do x-project specs as they seem to not make progress.  Going to have to resolve that.21:40
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notmynamettx: I think it would be good to have a more clearly defined goal for the standing meetings. other than "generally find out some things other people work on if ttx brings it up" having a meeting goal (per meeting or overall) would be helpful for me21:41
ttxjokke_: yeah, we could have a look at the stuff we ended up approving a see a theme there21:41
notmynameie why do we have this meeting?21:41
notmyname(not saying we shouldn't, but clarifying that would help, IMO)21:41
ttxnotmyname: right21:41
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jungleboyjnotmyname: Seems like we need to publicize this meeting as they way to get x-projects specs looked at better.21:42
ttxnotmyname: at this point we are having it if somone puts a discussion topic to the agenda21:42
notmynamettx: and, honestly, I look to you as release manager to tell me the answer to that :-)21:42
ttxit's more a "common meeting" than a release management one21:42
etoewsif there's any hope of getting these cross projects specs actually implemented we do need attendance from at least one representative from each project21:42
ttxhence the new name last cycle ("crtoss-project meeting")21:42
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ttxetoews: we could technically turn it into a cross-project spec meeting (weekly or biweekly) where some liaison from each project would be required to attend21:43
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nikhil_k+1 biweekly if agena is open21:43
ttxLike I said, I'm not happy with how it currently is, I just think that things would be worse if we just suppressed it21:43
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nikhil_kI think it would help to freeze the agenda a day before and have specs up so that people can check and plan to be here if needed21:44
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fungithe day-prior cancellations when teh agenda's empty seem fine to continue to me21:44
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etoewsi'm not entirely sure how to get that one representative without overloading the teams21:44
ttxnikhil_k: in the rare case someone else than me suggested an item, it was usually on the same day :)21:44
ttxbut yeah, we could set a deadline21:44
annegentleI agree with johnthetubaguy's suggestions for cross-pollination with the project management sessions, if they have valuable info it's good to share here.21:45
jokke_Personally the biggest advantage of these meetings have been just general 1hr info about what's going on ... these things tends to raise rarely on the individual team meetings otherwise21:45
fungiif someone comes up with an agenda item day-of, they can just use it to start the next week's agenda21:45
etoewsi think a deadline for the agenda is reasonable21:45
thingeeIn my opinion, PTL's are suppose to help keep the bigger picture, not just be stuck in their project. I think PTL attendance is good versus liaison.21:45
annegentleI also feel like I could have done a better job reporting docs work, but I didn't need to discuss each little bit of work, ya know?21:45
jungleboyjthingee: ++21:46
annegentleI wonder if Testing and Infra teams feel the same, since we're the cross-project teams but don't "use" this meeting necessarily to any end goal21:46
ttxannegentle: in theory, horizontal team updates are fair game here, but almost none of them did such updates21:46
annegentlettx: right, noting that myself21:46
ttxI like to have a point in time, weekly, where we can reach to all openstack projects, especially in a big tent setting.21:46
ttxeven if it's just a delegate21:46
annegentlettx: since we're all specialists with our own team meetings, not sure what we'd use this meeting for other than announcements21:46
etoewsttx: yes, it's definitely necessary in one form or another.21:47
ttxlast cycle it turned out mostly cross-project specs.21:47
annegentleetoews: agreed, it's needed21:47
ttxBut this cycle if we suppress weekly 1:1s between relmgt and PTLs(to replace them with adhoc pings) I guess we could reuse 5 min of the meeting to set the tone21:47
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notmynamettx: I'd still like to be on the record as opposed to stopping 1:1s ;-)21:48
* thingee uses this meeting to understand opinions on certain initiatives. Hearing thoughts from here and having a discussions on a spec is far better than just commenting on a spec and waiting.21:48
etoewsfor me, this meeting is about the people who care about using openstack in its entirety.21:48
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etoewsthingee: ++21:49
morganfainbergthingee: ++21:49
ttxnotmyname: you can still ping me if we need to communicate. I'd say that in most of the weeks the Swift 1:1 was pretty boring -- something like "got the date for your next release ? Not yet."21:49
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ttxThe project news update part of that 1:1 could easily migrate to another forum21:50
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ttxespecially since nobody but me ever read those 1:1 meetings logs21:50
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jroll"if it's not on my calendar, it will never happen" is a real problem for some people, it would be nice if folks that want a 1:1 could continue to have one21:51
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jroll(imho, I am not a ptl) :)21:51
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ttxjroll: I guess the question is, to do what21:51
ttxmore than half of them were only duties communication, and we'll remove most of those duties and document the rest21:52
* johnthetubaguy wishes the meeting was at a time he was so he felt he could contribute properly, and not be half asleep, or ideally send a substitute that could do a better job, notes he need to find someone to do that21:52
notmynamethe 1:1s are like the 1:1s you have between a boss and employee. normally nothing much happens, but it's a good time for both parties to hear the other one and know what's going on21:52
ttxexcept I'm not the boss of anyone :)21:52
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ttx(well, I'm the boss of a few)21:52
johnthetubaguyttx: I see the change in the milestone tracking having the biggest impact on the 1:1s21:52
fungiyou're not the boss of me!21:52
fungioh, wait21:52
notmynamettx: sure, it's not a perfect analogy. just the principle of the idea in order to facilitate communication between parties that have very different views of the whole21:52
ttxAnyway, I still hope to form some workgroup at the TC to improve that. That workgoup will be open so feel free to join it if it ever takes off21:53
jrollttx: right, so I have a standing 1:1 with my boss. sometimes it's cancelled. it's just nice to have the time blocked off in case one of the parties has a topic21:53
devanandattx: fwiw, I found them valuable around release time, in part cause I still forget some parts of that process21:53
ttxright, we'd still have something around release times21:53
notmynamejroll: yea,that21:53
jrollttx: for me, if it's not on my calendar, I'll forget to do it21:53
devanandattx: but in general i agree with everything else21:53
jrollor push it off or whatever21:53
ttxalso FTR there will be at least two release managers for Liberty, dhellmann is now one too21:54
thingee1:1s for me is a time to get recommendations and to question some of my decisions. getting another perspective is useful.21:54
devanandadhellmann: \o/21:54
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morganfainbergdevananda: ++ around release time they are super super helpful21:54
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jrollttx: maybe open "office hours" could work as a replacement, too, just an idea21:54
ttxjroll: right, I think we'd do that21:54
johnthetubaguyttx: devananda: I was assuming we keep the release sync ups21:54
ttxjroll: have some presence in some channel21:54
ttxalthough we also discussed moving back to #openstack-dev21:55
ttxsince it's unused21:55
ttx#topic Open discussion & announcements21:55
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion & announcements (Meeting topic: crossproject)"21:55
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ttxwe can contiue on the previous topic, but anything can go now21:55
ttxAnything else, anyone ?21:55
johnthetubaguy^ re previous comment, I meant 1:1 sync ups near release time21:56
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johnthetubaguyttx: I want to write up the project manager discussion and get in touch with those folks to see if they remember it in the same way21:56
johnthetubaguythat was kinda interesting21:56
ttxjohnthetubaguy: sound good21:57
johnthetubaguyhelp collecting all the sub group feedback, and connecting them with the correct developers, and other things21:57
ttxproduct^Wproject manager^Wmanagement^Winfluencers ?21:57
johnthetubaguya slight change in approach seemed to move towards something really useful21:57
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ttxhmm, is rbradfor here21:59
ttxhe had a quick thing to mention21:59
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bknudsonwhat was with the rain jackets swag? does it rain the vancouver?21:59
fungii've pinged him in #openstack-infra but he must have /parted #-meeting22:00
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fungibknudson: apparently it used to22:00
thingeeI appreciated it. I have way too many hoodies now.22:00
ttxbknudson: apparently yes, usually22:00
fungilike up until we showed up22:00
ttxI guess that will be for another time22:00
ttxAlright, that is a wrap22:01
bknudsonnext is pants22:01
ttxThanks everyone22:01
* jroll votes for sneakers22:01
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:01
openstackMeeting ended Tue May 26 22:01:28 2015 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:01
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-26-21.02.html22:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-26-21.02.txt22:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-05-26-21.02.log.html22:01
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jungleboyjbknudson: We have needed them here since getting home!22:02
bknudsonjungleboyj: it's coming in handy now22:02
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jungleboyjbknudson: Indeed.22:03
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