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| anteaya | #startmeeting third-party | 08:02 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 08:02:16 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is anteaya. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 08:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 08:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 08:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 08:02 |
| anteaya | hello | 08:02 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: hi | 08:04 |
| anteaya | hi jyuso | 08:04 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: I've send mail,have you seen it?:) | 08:04 |
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| anteaya | I am looking at it now to approve it | 08:05 |
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| anteaya | jyuso: I'm going to reject it | 08:06 |
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| anteaya | and paste a copy to you | 08:06 |
| anteaya | and I need you to post it as a reply to http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/third-party-announce/2015-August/000263.html | 08:07 |
| anteaya | when I start a thread I need replies to be to the inital post to the thread | 08:07 |
| anteaya | to keep the conversation organized | 08:07 |
| anteaya | rather than having new threads | 08:07 |
| anteaya | can you understand that? | 08:07 |
| jyuso | anteaya: ok | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | thank you | 08:08 |
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| anteaya | here is the paste: http://paste.openstack.org/show/437118/ | 08:08 |
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| yonglihe | anteaya, sorry for this bug troubles so many people | 08:12 |
| anteaya | yonglihe: hi how are you | 08:13 |
| anteaya | well that is the nature of third party ci | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | the output affects a lot of people | 08:13 |
| yonglihe | good till to hear our CI problem this morning | 08:13 |
| anteaya | yes you have been doing well | 08:13 |
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| anteaya | in future look at the third-party-announce mailing list first if there is an issue | 08:14 |
| anteaya | and keep the conversation there, posts to that list are moderated so will need my approval to be posted, so after you send an email | 08:14 |
| jyuso | anteaya: sorry,I'm not in third-party-announce mailing list.so i didn't receive your mail. | 08:14 |
| anteaya | please be patience | 08:15 |
| anteaya | jyuso: ah | 08:15 |
| anteaya | jyuso: are you subscribed now? | 08:15 |
| anteaya | go to lists.openstack.org | 08:16 |
| anteaya | select the third-party-announce link | 08:16 |
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| anteaya | it should tell you how to subscribe | 08:16 |
| yonglihe | jyuso, use this link http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/third-party-announce | 08:17 |
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| jyuso | anteaya: I've subscribed. | 08:19 |
| yonglihe | anteaya, we all subscribed now, thanks a lot | 08:19 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:19 |
| anteaya | yonglihe: great | 08:19 |
| anteaya | so now copy the subject line from http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/third-party-announce/2015-August/000263.html | 08:19 |
| anteaya | Intel PCI CI is disabled | 08:19 |
| anteaya | and use that as your subject for your email | 08:20 |
| anteaya | not the tag part | 08:20 |
| anteaya | not [Third-party-announce] | 08:20 |
| anteaya | that gets added automatically when you post to that list | 08:20 |
| anteaya | then your reply should be considered a reply to the parent post | 08:20 |
| anteaya | does that make sense? | 08:20 |
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| yonglihe | got it | 08:21 |
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| anteaya | great, thank you | 08:22 |
| jyuso | anteaya: ok,thanks,the mail will be sent soon. | 08:22 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:22 |
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| yonglihe | anteaya, mail sent, waiting approved now, i don't know if i do all right, update me if i'm still wrong. | 08:27 |
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| anteaya | yonglihe: you did fine, thank you http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/third-party-announce/2015-September/000264.html | 08:29 |
| anteaya | the month changed, so it it isnt showing up below the parent, but they both have the same subject so we can find them now, thank you | 08:30 |
| anteaya | okay great | 08:30 |
| anteaya | thanks for the report | 08:30 |
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| anteaya | you have some additional work to do to figure out your system, correct? | 08:31 |
| yonglihe | anteaya, is there anything bother you, i can tell a longer detail here | 08:31 |
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| anteaya | it is best if the details are on the mailing list | 08:31 |
| anteaya | then others can help me decide when your system is ready to be active | 08:32 |
| anteaya | also other operators can learn from your experience and hopefully make different choices for their systems | 08:32 |
| yonglihe | anteaya, we changed that testing scripts yesterday, and rolling back already. | 08:32 |
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| anteaya | okay but you still have an issue you want to fix, correct? | 08:33 |
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| anteaya | what are you going to do to ensure that your new solution doesn't create the same problem? | 08:34 |
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| yonglihe | anteaya, firstly, we rolling back to original scripts, that's running for long time, second, we will closely monitoring the states to make sure it will running as it did before. | 08:35 |
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| anteaya | great | 08:35 |
| anteaya | can you post that to the mailing list please? in reply to your post to third-party-announce? | 08:36 |
| yonglihe | third it , we will standard our testing system to ensure any new change be tested fully for days. | 08:36 |
| yonglihe | sure, anteaya | 08:36 |
| anteaya | wonderful, thank you | 08:36 |
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| yonglihe | mail sent, anteaya , additionally, to eliminate the human error , I'm wring ansible scripts for the CI, that should enable eliminate human accident, i think. | 08:42 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:43 |
| anteaya | having scripts is a useful thing | 08:43 |
| anteaya | if you want to write your own that is fine | 08:44 |
| anteaya | we have a number of puppet scripts already for installing portions of the ci | 08:44 |
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| anteaya | and are working on creating a puppet single installer for a third party ci | 08:44 |
| yonglihe | yeah, ansible relatively simple, and, because we are not identical to upstream CI, so use upstream scripts also need many work, | 08:44 |
| anteaya | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-openstackci/tree/ | 08:45 |
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| anteaya | sure as you like | 08:45 |
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| anteaya | where did you send the email, I don't see it yet in my administrative interface for the third-party-announce mailing list | 08:45 |
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| yonglihe | this is great, i will evaluate this one, if it suite for some part of our system, i definitely choose this one. | 08:46 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:46 |
| anteaya | I look forward to your feedback | 08:46 |
| anteaya | yonglihe: I don't see you email yet | 08:47 |
| anteaya | your email | 08:47 |
| yonglihe | anteaya, sorry, check it now. | 08:47 |
| anteaya | there it is | 08:47 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:47 |
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| anteaya | where was it? | 08:48 |
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| yonglihe | in my Thunderbird, not sent, sorry | 08:49 |
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| anteaya | ah | 08:49 |
| anteaya | good thing we found it then before I went back to bed | 08:49 |
| anteaya | :) | 08:50 |
| yonglihe | we are going to deploy a mail alert to all machine to help identify problem ASAP. | 08:51 |
| anteaya | a mail alert | 08:51 |
| anteaya | an internal mail alert? | 08:51 |
| yonglihe | yes | 08:51 |
| anteaya | oh good | 08:51 |
| anteaya | good idea | 08:51 |
| yonglihe | inform operator when anything seems wrong | 08:51 |
| anteaya | I have requested your system be re-enabled | 08:51 |
| anteaya | wonderful thank you | 08:51 |
| anteaya | it will be a few more hours before anyone who can re-enable it is awake | 08:52 |
| anteaya | so hopefully be tomorrow it is in action again | 08:52 |
| anteaya | thanks for being so attentive to this | 08:52 |
| anteaya | I really appreciate it | 08:52 |
| yonglihe | anteaya, thanks for helping | 08:52 |
| anteaya | of course :) | 08:52 |
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| anteaya | you have updated your wikipage status for your system? | 08:53 |
| jyuso | anteaya: yes,i've change status of offline. | 08:53 |
| jyuso | anteaya: to | 08:53 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems/Intel-PCI-CI | 08:53 |
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| anteaya | did you? | 08:53 |
| anteaya | yes you did | 08:53 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:53 |
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| anteaya | also on this page | 08:54 |
| anteaya | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ThirdPartySystems | 08:54 |
| anteaya | can you do this? If your system is going down or having problems, change the entry to {{ThirdPartySystemTableEntryDown|<your ci system name>}} | 08:54 |
| anteaya | does that make sense? | 08:54 |
| jyuso | anteaya: sure | 08:54 |
| yonglihe | thanks anteaya , got it | 08:54 |
| anteaya | thank you | 08:54 |
| anteaya | wonderful | 08:55 |
| jyuso | anteaya: thanks,i'll change it soon | 08:55 |
| anteaya | then when your system is back up you can change it back | 08:55 |
| yonglihe | copy, anteaya | 08:55 |
| anteaya | I think that was all I wanted to talk about here | 08:55 |
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| yonglihe | anteaya, thanks. | 08:56 |
| jyuso | anteaya: yes,i'll remember these steps.thank you;) | 08:57 |
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| anteaya | wonderful | 08:57 |
| anteaya | thank you both | 08:57 |
| anteaya | it was nice to work with you again | 08:57 |
| anteaya | I am thinking about closing the meeting | 08:58 |
| yonglihe | ok, good night | 08:58 |
| anteaya | can you think of any reason why I should keep it open? | 08:58 |
| anteaya | thanks | 08:58 |
| anteaya | good night | 08:58 |
| anteaya | #endmeeting | 08:58 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:58 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 08:58:30 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-01-08.02.html | 08:58 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-01-08.02.txt | 08:58 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-01-08.02.log.html | 08:58 |
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| alex_xu | #startmeeting nova api | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 12:00:23 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is alex_xu. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'nova_api' | 12:00 |
| alex_xu | Hello, Who is here today | 12:00 |
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| edleafe | o/ | 12:01 |
| gmann_ | o/ | 12:01 |
| oomichi | hello :) | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | hello everyone :) | 12:01 |
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| alex_xu | let's run the meeting | 12:01 |
| alex_xu | #topic actions from last meeting | 12:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:01 | |
| alex_xu | alex_xu to updated validation patch which strips out extra params | 12:02 |
| * edleafe runs out for a few minutes to send family off for the day | 12:02 | |
| alex_xu | I have done that, and the patch merged! | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/215436 | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: no problem | 12:02 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: cool | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | sdague to address any additional tempest issues | 12:02 |
| oomichi | that seems also done | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | this also done | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/216784 | 12:02 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: that was done | 12:02 |
| alex_xu | yea | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | one more for sdague: sdague will sort out our eventual test matrix here | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | sdague: hi, are you around? | 12:03 |
| alex_xu | emm...I guess he is busy on gate. there is something trouble with gate | 12:04 |
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| oomichi | yeah | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | let me check with him after meeting | 12:04 |
| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, I'm around, but a little touch and go | 12:04 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea, no problem | 12:04 |
| sdague | so, yes, we addressed the tempest issue | 12:05 |
| alex_xu | sdague: any update about the test? I think the important one is v2 test job | 12:05 |
| sdague | the thing I have not done, that I said I would, is an overall test plan here. I started working on it, then the gate wedged up last week, and I've been trying to get it back to low failure rate for freeze | 12:05 |
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| sdague | so, my feeling is the following | 12:06 |
| sdague | we should make v2.1 the default | 12:06 |
| sdague | in the test runs | 12:06 |
| * edleafe returns | 12:06 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207183/ | 12:06 |
| sdague | then have 2 runs that are only on nova, which is v2.0 on v2.0 stack and v2.0 on v2.1 stack | 12:06 |
| alex_xu | sdague: i guess this patch ^ | 12:06 |
| sdague | alex_xu: well, I think that patch is probably not quite right | 12:06 |
| gmann_ | sdague: +1 for plan. | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | sdague: any help you need? | 12:07 |
| sdague | anyway, I can also write down the plan in detail if someone else can fling patches | 12:07 |
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| gmann_ | sdague: are you planning to do those with catalog type or changing paste.ini from devstack | 12:07 |
| sdague | I'll do that on an etherpad as soon as we're done here | 12:07 |
| alex_xu | I can work on the patch | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | sdague: i can help on those | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: cool | 12:08 |
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| sdague | gmann_: for v2.1 and v2.0 on v2.1 that should be the way we setup paste directly | 12:08 |
| sdague | v2.0 on v2.0 is going to require a paste change in devstack | 12:08 |
| gmann_ | sdague: yea | 12:08 |
| alex_xu | sdague: yea | 12:08 |
| sdague | so there will be a devstack logic bit, then setting the compute url in tempest bit | 12:09 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, so you will write down etherpad? them I and gmann_ will work on it | 12:10 |
| sdague | anyway, I'll write up the plan as soon as the meeting is over | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | s/them/then | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | sdague: thanks! | 12:10 |
| gmann_ | sdague: alex_xu cool Thanks. | 12:10 |
| sdague | #action sdague to write up test plan for v2.x nova, alex_xu and gmann_ will work on patches | 12:10 |
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| sdague | thanks folks | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | sdague: ok, you are typing faster than me... | 12:10 |
| alex_xu | sdague: np | 12:11 |
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| alex_xu | so any more question, then let's move on | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | #topic v2.0 on v2.1 | 12:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v2.0 on v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:11 | |
| alex_xu | #info The patch for fixing tempest on extra param is merged https://review.openstack.org/216784 | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | #info The patch for striping the extra params out is merged https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215436/ | 12:11 |
| alex_xu | #info The patch for using v2.1 only in api-paste.ini is merging https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214085/ | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | the only left one is about logging warn message when v2 and v3 running | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | #link #link https://review.openstack.org/219188 | 12:12 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: sdague ^ hope you can take a look at after meeting | 12:12 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: ok :) | 12:13 |
| oomichi | one second | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: whats about this one - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: thanks | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: we need that also | 12:13 |
| sdague | alex_xu: will do | 12:13 |
| alex_xu | gmann_: thanks, I missed that one | 12:13 |
| gmann_ | alex_xu: np | 12:14 |
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| sdague | alex_xu: yeh, we'll need to rerun tests on that | 12:14 |
| sdague | because of the ironic dib test fail | 12:14 |
| alex_xu | I will check whether the patch need update, as johnthetubaguy is away thoes two days | 12:14 |
| edleafe | I can look into that one | 12:14 |
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| alex_xu | sdague: ok | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: which one? | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ ? | 12:15 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ | 12:15 |
| edleafe | yes | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: cool, thanks | 12:15 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: so let me help on review | 12:16 |
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| edleafe | alex_xu: ok | 12:16 |
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| alex_xu | I think that's all for v2 on v2.1, anything more I missed? | 12:16 |
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| alex_xu | #info https://review.openstack.org/219188 and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ are last two patches about v2 on v2.1 | 12:17 |
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| alex_xu | ok, looks like no more question | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | let's move on | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | oops | 12:17 |
| alex_xu | #action edleafe will update https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217727/ | 12:18 |
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| alex_xu | edleafe: :) | 12:18 |
| edleafe | cool | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | #topic v2.1 default on gate | 12:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "v2.1 default on gate (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:18 | |
| alex_xu | I think we already talk about this in the beginning | 12:18 |
| alex_xu | anything more want to talk about? | 12:18 |
| oomichi | one point | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yea, please | 12:19 |
| oomichi | johnthetubaguy makes legacy v2 comp API as the default. | 12:19 |
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| oomichi | isn't that enough for us? | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yea | 12:19 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: no, we should make v2.1 as the default | 12:20 |
| oomichi | without legacy mode, right? | 12:20 |
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| alex_xu | oomichi: yea | 12:20 |
| oomichi | ah, I see. | 12:20 |
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| oomichi | so another question is | 12:20 |
| gmann__ | alex_xu: oomichi : yea | 12:20 |
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| oomichi | how to test legacy v2, legacy v2 comp and v2.1 on the gate? | 12:21 |
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| oomichi | do we need to test all APIs? | 12:21 |
| gmann__ | oomichi: we can have v2.1 default and separate job for each on v2 and v2 on v21 | 12:21 |
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| oomichi | gmann__: I see, yeah that is reasonable. | 12:22 |
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| gmann__ | oomichi: sdague will write up the plan in detail | 12:22 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yea, we talked it in the beginning of the meeting, Sean will go to write down the detail paln | 12:22 |
| oomichi | gmann__: ok, I'd like to see it :) | 12:22 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: thanks, my question is solved ;) | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: np :) | 12:23 |
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| gmann__ | oomichi: thanks | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | then let's move on? | 12:23 |
| alex_xu | #topic Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 | 12:23 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Test collapse of v2.0 and v2.1 (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:23 | |
| alex_xu | gmann__: I think all the works already done, right? | 12:24 |
| gmann__ | alex_xu: yea those are done. | 12:24 |
| alex_xu | #info all the works of collapse of v2 and v2.1 tests are done, thanks to gmann__ ! | 12:24 |
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| gmann__ | alex_xu: we have now single set of sample files. sdague will be much happy :) | 12:24 |
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| oomichi | gmann__: thanks for the works | 12:24 |
| gmann__ | oomichi: np | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | gmann__: yea, actually everybody happy, thanks for the works :) | 12:25 |
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| gmann__ | alex_xu: yea. np | 12:25 |
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| alex_xu | so let's move on | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | #topic Remove extensions | 12:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Remove extensions (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:25 | |
| alex_xu | #info Deprecated v2.1 extension options patch is merged https://review.openstack.org/214592 | 12:25 |
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| alex_xu | one more patch for deprecated v2 extension option didn't merge yet | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/214601 | 12:25 |
| alex_xu | hope everybody can review it | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: sdague ^ special you :) | 12:26 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: got it o/ | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | then I think this the parts of remove extension in Liberty | 12:26 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: thanks :) | 12:27 |
| sdague | alex_xu: :) | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | anymore question or missing? | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | so let's move on | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | #topic Removal of v3 naming from source tree | 12:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Removal of v3 naming from source tree (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:27 | |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/nova+branch:master+topic:x3,n,z | 12:27 |
| alex_xu | there are two patches | 12:28 |
| alex_xu | but those can be merged after freeze, as they are bug fix | 12:28 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: johnthetubaguy wants to wait for freeze to merge them | 12:28 |
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| alex_xu | edleafe: yea | 12:28 |
| edleafe | they don't affect logic, but could cause extra rebases | 12:28 |
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| alex_xu | but I find one thing we should merge before string freeze | 12:28 |
| edleafe | so I'm fine waiting | 12:28 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/219188 | 12:29 |
| gmann__ | alex_xu: edleafe : yea that will good | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: yea, really thanks all the works :) | 12:29 |
| edleafe | alex_xu: yes, already reviewed | 12:29 |
| alex_xu | edleafe: thanks | 12:29 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: can you respin https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214601/ instead of johnthetubaguy? | 12:30 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: I found a wrong message on the patch | 12:30 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: after the meeting | 12:30 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: no problem, thanks! | 12:30 |
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| alex_xu | oomichi: and this for you https://review.openstack.org/219188, probably one minute review | 12:31 |
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| oomichi | alex_xu: that was done already ;) | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: cool! | 12:31 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's move on | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | #topic API Documentation Improvement | 12:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API Documentation Improvement (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:32 | |
| oomichi | sdague 's turn | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | heh :) | 12:32 |
| gmann__ | oomichi: :) | 12:32 |
| alex_xu | so for doc, I guess we didn't have too much update this point | 12:32 |
| annegentle | I'm here fwiw | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | annegentle: good morning | 12:33 |
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| annegentle | g'mornin' | 12:33 |
| oomichi | annegentle: morning :) | 12:33 |
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| annegentle | Russell and I met yesterday and yes you do have to have WADL to get the swagger/json output. | 12:33 |
| alex_xu | there is plan for swagger poc in summit, but probably we aren't start yet, as this isn't the focus at this point | 12:33 |
| annegentle | We're meeting with Monty this afternoon to discuss server setup to display the docs. | 12:33 |
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| alex_xu | annegentle: why have to? can we jump over the WADL? | 12:34 |
| annegentle | Russell and I have a talk Tuesday afternoon about progress so far | 12:34 |
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| annegentle | alex_xu: if you'd like to go directly to swagger that's fine but the tooling isn't available for nova, unless you write it | 12:34 |
| annegentle | alex_xu: looking at it, Russell thinks tempest is the way to get request/responses and errors then add those to the doc | 12:34 |
| oomichi | I have a little crazy idea for getting API sample files from tempest.log as the alternative. | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | annegentle: yea, I and oomichi gmann__ probably will work on it | 12:35 |
| annegentle | oomichi: yeah that's probably along the same idea | 12:35 |
| gmann__ | annegentle: alex_xu : updating WADL manually needs lot of affort | 12:35 |
| annegentle | alex_xu: oomichi gmann__ excellent | 12:35 |
| oomichi | we will be able to use it for all projects. | 12:35 |
| sdague | annegentle: I thought we were getting away from WADL | 12:35 |
| annegentle | gmann__: yeah I'm not advocating for WADL, just letting you know there's no generator other than from WADL | 12:35 |
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| annegentle | gmann__: that's all | 12:35 |
| alex_xu | gmann__: yea, that is why we jump over WADL | 12:35 |
| annegentle | oomichi: that's great | 12:36 |
| oomichi | annegentle: thanks, I can try prototype based on positive feedback :) | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: so in the future, we will remove the api sample tests? | 12:36 |
| gmann__ | annegentle: humm, | 12:36 |
| alex_xu | if your idea works | 12:36 |
| annegentle | I had an off-list reply to my ML http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/072546.html | 12:36 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: I canot say it at this time | 12:37 |
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| sdague | anyway, I've not really had enough concentration on this issue atm given some of the other freeze related things | 12:37 |
| annegentle | woops can't find it now, but basically looking for ways to baseline and compare swagger files | 12:37 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: I am thnking sample files should be maintained on each probject ideally as the first place | 12:37 |
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| gmann__ | oomichi: alex_xu : yea we may need sample files but we can see those based on how tempest thing goes | 12:38 |
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| annegentle | gmann__: and oomichi: I agree with you to eventually get rid of the generated samples if tempest works out | 12:38 |
| alex_xu | gmann__: oomichi ok, let's see what happened | 12:38 |
| annegentle | ok | 12:39 |
| gmann__ | annegentle: yea, that will be much more generic. | 12:39 |
| alex_xu | annegentle: thanks for info, let's get back to this after freeze | 12:39 |
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| annegentle | ok -- thanks for looking for generic solutions | 12:40 |
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| alex_xu | anything more question, then let's move on? | 12:40 |
| alex_xu | #topic API futures - patches for merge | 12:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "API futures - patches for merge (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:40 | |
| alex_xu | only one I noticed and the code is good shape | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | #link #link https://review.openstack.org/217572 | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | gmann__: ^ :) | 12:41 |
| gmann__ | alex_xu: yea | 12:41 |
| gmann__ | That is bug fix for VIF thing, spec was approved already | 12:41 |
| alex_xu | not sure we have enough bandwidth for it, but I give +1, give it my best bless | 12:42 |
| gmann__ | oomichi: reviewed. Than ks | 12:42 |
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| gmann__ | alex_xu: yea, just need 1 more +2 | 12:42 |
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| gmann__ | sdague: ^^ in your free time | 12:42 |
| alex_xu | gmann__: yea, good luck | 12:42 |
| oomichi | that's also sdague's turn | 12:42 |
| oomichi | yea | 12:42 |
| gmann__ | and with that one more - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198944/ | 12:42 |
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| alex_xu | gmann__: yea, that is important | 12:43 |
| gmann__ | that is kilo backporting for VIF thing. master one is already megred | 12:43 |
| gmann__ | master one - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198934/ | 12:43 |
| edleafe | oomichi: I can fix the missing space on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214601/ and push a new version, if you and sdague are around to re-review it | 12:44 |
| gmann__ | sdague: oomichi this one too - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198944/ | 12:44 |
| oomichi | edleafe: thanks, will re-review it soon after that | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | ok, let's jump to open directly | 12:44 |
| alex_xu | #topic open | 12:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open (Meeting topic: nova api)" | 12:44 | |
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| alex_xu | I started the microversions api-wg guideline again | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | #link https://review.openstack.org/187112 | 12:45 |
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| sdague | +A on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/217572 | 12:45 |
| alex_xu | so hope everyone can take a look at it after freeze | 12:45 |
| gmann__ | sdague: Thanks | 12:45 |
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| alex_xu | gmann__: hah, good luck :) | 12:45 |
| gmann__ | alex_xu: :) | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | anymore open? then let's back to review and update patch, then push oomichi and sdague :) | 12:46 |
| oomichi | alex_xu: oops, you are trying very difficult topic.. microversion spec ;) | 12:46 |
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| gmann__ | sdague: oomichi : last one for VIF one - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198944/ | 12:46 |
| alex_xu | oomichi: yea, thanks to you push part of consistent | 12:47 |
| edleafe | oomichi: sdague: others: fixed and pushed https://review.openstack.org/214601 | 12:47 |
| oomichi | gmann__: that seems different from stable patch way, I guess | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | ok... let's back to openstack-nova to work | 12:47 |
| alex_xu | thanks all | 12:48 |
| alex_xu | #endmeeting | 12:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:48 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 12:48:03 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:48 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-01-12.00.html | 12:48 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-01-12.00.txt | 12:48 |
| gmann__ | oomichi: yea, file structure is changed in master due to v3 clenup | 12:48 |
| oomichi | thanks | 12:48 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/nova_api/2015/nova_api.2015-09-01-12.00.log.html | 12:48 |
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| oomichi | edleafe: thanks for doint that, +2 | 12:49 |
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| *** Qiming has joined #openstack-meeting | 13:00 | |
| Qiming | hello | 13:00 |
| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 13:00:39 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:00 |
| haiwei | hi | 13:00 |
| jruano | hi | 13:01 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:01 |
| Qiming | ? | 13:02 |
| Qiming | okay, it is working | 13:02 |
| Qiming | maybe my network connection is too bad | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | guess so ;) | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | anyway | 13:03 |
| Qiming | please feel free to add agenda items: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | #topic l-3 milestone items | 13:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "l-3 milestone items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:04 | |
| Qiming | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/senlin-liberty-workitems | 13:04 |
| Qiming | just did a cleanup on the etherpad page | 13:04 |
| Qiming | in backlog, we still have some test cases | 13:05 |
| Qiming | keystone and sdk test cases still not there? | 13:05 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 13:06 |
| jruano | yes some of those are mine. i am working on them today | 13:06 |
| Qiming | I'm signing on the keystone and sdk unit tests | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | L3 goals | 13:06 |
| Qiming | container clusters ... | 13:06 |
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| Qiming | the progress of last week was good, haven't heard a thing since then from the team | 13:07 |
| Qiming | need to catch up | 13:07 |
| Qiming | #action Qiming to catch up with the SUR team on progress | 13:07 |
| Qiming | placement policy, we have a simple POC there, 219212 | 13:08 |
| Qiming | need to make it work before release | 13:08 |
| Qiming | I'm not worrying about cross-region support, the key is about algorithm, it has to be flexible | 13:08 |
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| Qiming | patch 219212 was just checked in by Xinhui, Xinhui cannot join us today due to biz trip | 13:09 |
| patchbot | Qiming: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219212/ | 13:09 |
| Qiming | hello patchbot | 13:09 |
| Qiming | exception handling .. | 13:09 |
| Qiming | haiwei, anything new? | 13:09 |
| haiwei | no, it's already finished i think | 13:10 |
| Qiming | I'm seeing all items crossed over | 13:10 |
| haiwei | I made some tests these days it works fine | 13:10 |
| Qiming | great. | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | next is functional tests | 13:10 |
| Qiming | I believe we had an issue here | 13:11 |
| haiwei | just a little worry about it that some one may complain it is not suitable for the cloud operator | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | just finished the cluster scaling test case | 13:11 |
| Qiming | the test case passed? | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | nope, it was blocked by the problem in Action progress | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | without this issue, it passed | 13:12 |
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| Qiming | okay, we had two issues here actually | 13:12 |
| Qiming | one is about the decorator for connection creation | 13:12 |
| Qiming | it has been solved | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | yep | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | the second one is a big one :) | 13:13 |
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| Qiming | another one is related to context usage in action hierarchy | 13:13 |
| Qiming | yanyanhu, I'll work with you on this tomorrow | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | thanks, that will be much helpful :) | 13:13 |
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| haiwei | the problem is? | 13:13 |
| yanyanhu | took almost two days on this problem | 13:13 |
| Qiming | it is about concurrent operations on sqlalchemy DB | 13:14 |
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| haiwei | saw your conversation this afternoon, not very clearly about it | 13:14 |
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| Qiming | the data written from one session cannot be seen from another session immediately | 13:14 |
| haiwei | oh | 13:15 |
| Qiming | we are having some context/session management problems just surfaced after some "bug fixings" | 13:15 |
| Qiming | we may need to rethink whether our usage of oslo_context.get_current() is "green-thread-safe" | 13:15 |
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| jruano | oh wow. that does seem like a big problem to debug | 13:16 |
| Qiming | I believe some of you have seen it this way or that | 13:16 |
| yanyanhu | looks like there are still some issues about DB session we need to figure out | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu | jruano, yes :) | 13:16 |
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| Qiming | most projects are not using oslo_context.get_current(), we may be the first to do async executions in engine as well | 13:17 |
| haiwei | this problem can be reproduce in what kind of use case? | 13:17 |
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| Qiming | some locks are not released when action complete | 13:17 |
| haiwei | I think I met it before | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | hi, haiwei, I think some operations like cluster-create/delete/update | 13:18 |
| Qiming | especially when the action involves both cluster-action and node-action | 13:18 |
| yanyanhu | and also resize/scalein/scaleout | 13:18 |
| haiwei | and there is a bug report for it | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | this is a critical issue, we need to solve it as early as possible before it is getting too complicated | 13:18 |
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| Qiming | next item along the list | 13:20 |
| Qiming | senlinclient test cases, I have just started working on it | 13:20 |
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| Qiming | need more hands on it | 13:20 |
| haiwei | I assigned one, but not moving on | 13:21 |
| Qiming | actually, there are something I don't think we need to test | 13:21 |
| Qiming | I mean the "models" module | 13:21 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:21 |
| jruano | i can get you an extra hand qi ming. colleague reached out to me other day wanting to see where in openstack he can help | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | they will eventually get contributed to sdk | 13:21 |
| haiwei | shell.py and client.py are necessary i think | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | jruano, that would be great | 13:22 |
| Qiming | it is pretty a labor-intensive job | 13:22 |
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| Qiming | today is the l-3 milestone ... | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | I'm thinking maybe we need to create a branch in the coming days and practice feature freeze | 13:23 |
| yanyanhu | agree | 13:23 |
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| Qiming | we will create a release in this branch, and continue development on master | 13:24 |
| jruano | yes, that will be the most efficient way to get a release | 13:24 |
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| haiwei | adding test should be allowed I think | 13:25 |
| haiwei | not only bug fix | 13:25 |
| Qiming | in the 'release' (0.2?) branch, we can delete all half-baked things | 13:25 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, 0.2 sounds good :) | 13:25 |
| Qiming | yes, we just make sure it is a usable package | 13:25 |
| yanyanhu | so we may need some manual tests on all important features | 13:26 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu | after fix the existing bugs, we can start the test | 13:26 |
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| yanyanhu | hopefully we can finish the test and debug in a week I think | 13:27 |
| Qiming | there will be a branch for senlinclient as well | 13:27 |
| yanyanhu | if we focus on this | 13:27 |
| Qiming | the senlin-dashboard project needs a senlinclient package on Pypi | 13:27 |
| haiwei | the next is dc-1? | 13:27 |
| haiwei | rc-1 | 13:27 |
| Qiming | guess so | 13:27 |
| Qiming | not quite familar with the process | 13:27 |
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| Qiming | we learn by doing it, as always | 13:28 |
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| yanyanhu | yea | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | so ... haiwei, you just mentioned something about exception handling, not appropriate for cloud operators | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | can you elaborate that? something we can improve/fix? | 13:29 |
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| haiwei | yes, one of my colleague complains it | 13:29 |
| Qiming | specifics? | 13:30 |
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| haiwei | because we changed all the sdk exceptions to internal error, we can't get the original information from drivers | 13:30 |
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| yanyanhu | but I think the original msg from driver is recored in log | 13:31 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming is disconnected? | 13:31 |
| Qiming | I missed the previous sentence ... | 13:31 |
| yanyanhu | oh, just connection reset | 13:31 |
| haiwei | and also we catch doe exceptions and don't raise it again, from the engine logs there is not error trace, so for the operator it is difficult to debug the exception | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | <haiwei> because we changed all the sdk exceptions to internal error, we can't get the original information from drivers | 13:32 |
| haiwei | because we changed all the sdk exceptions to internal error, we can't get the original information from drivers | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | okay, that is something we can improve | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | we can still write logs | 13:32 |
| yanyanhu | yes, agree that the exception dump stack is important for debug | 13:32 |
| haiwei | it seems we can do a middleware to handle the exception | 13:33 |
| Qiming | stack dump is annoying to users | 13:33 |
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| yanyanhu | haiwei, that is important :) | 13:33 |
| haiwei | magnum seems to do it that way | 13:33 |
| Qiming | exception handling is always a cross-cutting concern in software engineering | 13:33 |
| Qiming | we have been trying to consolidate it into more mangeable framework | 13:34 |
| Qiming | please feel free to improve the driver end exception handling | 13:35 |
| haiwei | ok | 13:35 |
| Qiming | we need to make sure the operators (at least) knows what has been going wrong | 13:35 |
| haiwei | yes | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | at the same time, we filter out messages that are not supposed to be seen by end users | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | there is always a gray area in-between | 13:36 |
| Qiming | #topic revisions to profile/policy schema | 13:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "revisions to profile/policy schema (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:37 | |
| Qiming | during the past week (weekend actually), the biggest modification to the code is about profile and policy definitions | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | we were using 'senlin profile-create -t os.heat.stack -s specfile name' command to create profiles | 13:38 |
| Qiming | and a similar command to create policies | 13:38 |
| Qiming | actually, the '-t os.heat.stack' should be part of the specfile | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | so, we have changed the format of the profile spec and policy spec | 13:39 |
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| Qiming | now a profile looks like this: | 13:39 |
| Qiming | type: os.heat.stack | 13:39 |
| Qiming | version: 1.0 | 13:39 |
| Qiming | properties: | 13:40 |
| Qiming | template: blah blah | 13:40 |
| Qiming | parameters: blah blah | 13:40 |
| Qiming | <and everything else you need to create a heat stack> | 13:40 |
| Qiming | a policy will look like this: | 13:40 |
| Qiming | type: senlin.policy.deletion | 13:40 |
| Qiming | version: 1.0 | 13:40 |
| Qiming | properties: | 13:40 |
| Qiming | destroy_after_deletion: True | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | criteria: OLDEST_FIRST | 13:41 |
| Qiming | <and other properties we had in the deletion policy> | 13:41 |
| Qiming | this was a disruptive change we have to do, and hopefully it is done once for all | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | in future, we can just change the version number to accommodate new properties | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | this was also an effort to get senlin policy definition better aligned with TOSCA | 13:42 |
| Qiming | all relevant changes have been merged | 13:43 |
| Qiming | if you are using the master code, you will need to delete existing profiles/policies and create new ones | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | there are still some open issues | 13:44 |
| Qiming | for example, whether we use os.heat.stack as the 'type' or 'os.heat.stack-1.0' as the type name | 13:45 |
| yanyanhu | Qiming, does that mean for specific type of profile/policy, we will support different versions in the same module? | 13:45 |
| Qiming | good question | 13:45 |
| Qiming | maybe we need to revise the setup.cfg file to spell out version numbers | 13:46 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 13:46 |
| Qiming | still thinking what is the best way to express version difference | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | when listing profile types or policy types, we need version numbers there too | 13:48 |
| Qiming | #topic open discussions | 13:49 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussions (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:49 | |
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| Qiming | anything? | 13:49 |
| yanyanhu | nope from me | 13:50 |
| jruano | when are we targeting code freeze? | 13:50 |
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| haiwei | i am ok | 13:50 |
| Qiming | jruano, i was calling it a feature freeze | 13:50 |
| jruano | ah, gotcha | 13:50 |
| jruano | sounds good to me | 13:51 |
| Qiming | the code won't be frozen, we will "backport" bug fixes when necessary | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | as for feature freeze, it's today | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | there can be FFE (feature freeze exceptions), though, :) | 13:52 |
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| Qiming | any new feature we want to add before doing a release | 13:52 |
| Qiming | if there is nothing else, we can call an end to the meeting | 13:53 |
| jruano | yeah | 13:53 |
| jruano | sounds good | 13:53 |
| Qiming | 3 | 13:53 |
| Qiming | 2 | 13:53 |
| Qiming | 1 | 13:54 |
| Qiming | 0.5 | 13:54 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:54 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 13:54:09 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:54 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-01-13.00.html | 13:54 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-01-13.00.txt | 13:54 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2015/senlin.2015-09-01-13.00.log.html | 13:54 |
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| regXboi | is there a drivers meeting or did I already miss it? | 15:11 |
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| haleyb | regXboi: there has been nothing, probably cancelled since Kyle is out | 15:16 |
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| * carl_baldwin been hanging out but it has been quiet. | 15:17 | |
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| regXboi | haleyb: ack - I *might* of had something, but the rfe didn't land in time for this week | 15:17 |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting third-party | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 17:01:35 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
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| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: third-party)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'third_party' | 17:01 |
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| asselin_ | o/ | 17:01 |
| patrickeast | hi | 17:01 |
| krtaylor | anyone here for third party CI working group? | 17:01 |
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| skylerberg | Yeah | 17:02 |
| sweston | \o | 17:02 |
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| rfolco | hi | 17:02 |
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| krtaylor | hi everyone, looks like we have a good group today | 17:02 |
| wznoinsk | sure | 17:02 |
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| krtaylor | here is the agenda - it is pretty light this week | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/ThirdParty#9.2F1.2F15_1700_UTC | 17:03 |
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| asselin_ | krtaylor, I think skylerberg was going to present his dashboard solution | 17:04 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Announcements | 17:04 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, ok, good to know, lets put that with the dashboard topic in the agenda | 17:04 |
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| skylerberg | krtaylor, asselin_: Yes, I will add it. | 17:05 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg, sure, np | 17:05 |
| krtaylor | ok, so back to announcements | 17:05 |
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| krtaylor | I have one | 17:06 |
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| krtaylor | The available time I have to spend on the third party CI working group has been decreasing over the last release | 17:06 |
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| krtaylor | and so it is time for me to step down from chairing this working group and let new contributors jump in and continue the work this group is leading | 17:07 |
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| krtaylor | The good news is that I am proposing leaving this group in good hands, asselin_ has agreed to take over, assuming everyone is ok with that | 17:07 |
| sweston | +1 | 17:07 |
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| rfolco | +1 | 17:07 |
| krtaylor | asselin_ has a strong record of contributions and is a natural to carry this effort forward, he can start with the next meeting on September 15th | 17:08 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, want to add anything? | 17:08 |
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| asselin_ | krtaylor, thanks, I'll also be changing position internally which should (hopefully) give me more time to help drive the third-party ci initiatives | 17:09 |
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| krtaylor | excellent | 17:09 |
| krtaylor | and I'll still be around | 17:09 |
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| krtaylor | any other comments or questions on this? | 17:10 |
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| krtaylor | any other quick announcements? deadlines? | 17:10 |
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| krtaylor | alright then, next topic | 17:11 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Common CI | 17:11 |
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| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:downstream-puppet,n,z | 17:11 |
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| asselin_ | first, my common-ci talk for tokyo was not accepted | 17:12 |
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| krtaylor | <sigh> | 17:12 |
| krtaylor | unbelievable | 17:12 |
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| asselin_ | but if I go (still not confirmed either way) we can have a side session to discuss | 17:12 |
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| krtaylor | the merge list is impressive, lots done | 17:13 |
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| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/topic:downstream-puppet+status:merged,n,z | 17:13 |
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| asselin_ | yes, there's a lot going on to make the infra puppet modules more reusable. | 17:14 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, that would be a good topic for a breakout/birds-of-a-feather session | 17:14 |
| asselin_ | for third party, there 3 big ones left: nodepool & a sample 3rd party ci, and documentation. | 17:14 |
| krtaylor | yes...nodepool | 17:14 |
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| asselin_ | Swanson was just asking about docs ealier today | 17:15 |
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| krtaylor | yes, the running your own and third_party docs will need refreshing | 17:15 |
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| asselin_ | nodepool should be ready to go. Maybe next week (when I have time) we can merge and I'll upgrade my systems | 17:16 |
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| asselin_ | krtaylor, yes. I also want to add a section for 'operations' and how to deal with all the issues we encounter. I have a lot of notes to contribute | 17:16 |
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| asselin_ | I would like some feedback: how many people are using the puppet-openstackci modules now for third party systems? | 17:17 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, agreed, we always talked about how useful a FAQ or FSI would be (frequently seen issues) | 17:17 |
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| krtaylor | I know mmedvede has use some, to what extent I don't know, rfolco? | 17:18 |
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| ja2 | we are not using your puppet work at this instant, but plan to once (a) it's designated 'ready' (b) our own dragons are slain (c) we acquire the final target system and get out of our sandbox. | 17:19 |
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| rfolco | krtaylor, we're slowly moving to the new refactored puppet modules in dev env first | 17:19 |
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| asselin_ | ja2 fair enough | 17:20 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, anything you'd like to get help with? | 17:21 |
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| asselin_ | reviews :) | 17:21 |
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| krtaylor | ok, anyhting else? | 17:22 |
| asselin_ | that's it from me | 17:22 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Spec to have infra host scoreboard | 17:22 |
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| krtaylor | this was moving along really well | 17:22 |
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| krtaylor | until we got neg'ed for a spelling error | 17:23 |
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| krtaylor | new revision submitted this morning - I would appreciate quick reviews | 17:23 |
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| krtaylor | the "quick" solution is taking forever | 17:23 |
| rfolco | link again please? | 17:23 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194437/ | 17:24 |
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| krtaylor | jhesketh has been patiently helping with this one, hopefully we can get another core to approve | 17:25 |
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| krtaylor | any other comments/questions? | 17:25 |
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| krtaylor | #topic CI Watch | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg | 17:26 |
| skylerberg | I recently announced CI Watch, without realizing there was a lot of overlap with scoreboard. | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | excellent alternative, I'd love it if we could all get behind one though | 17:26 |
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| asselin_ | krtaylor, +1 | 17:26 |
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| krtaylor | and radar and... | 17:27 |
| skylerberg | I think it would be great to the best parts of each in one place. | 17:27 |
| skylerberg | #link http://ci-watch.tintri.com | 17:27 |
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| asselin_ | skylerberg, yes there are parts of each that I like | 17:27 |
| krtaylor | also, you are going to have to arm wrestle sdague over the name | 17:27 |
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| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192253/ | 17:27 |
| skylerberg | Yes, unfortunately there is also a naming conflict with sdague's tool. | 17:27 |
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| skylerberg | I have a review open for adding this project to openstack's infrastructure | 17:28 |
| skylerberg | #link ** CI Watch - CI Monitoring project | 17:28 |
| skylerberg | *** Review to add project: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216840/ | 17:28 |
| skylerberg | oopw | 17:28 |
| skylerberg | oops | 17:28 |
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| skylerberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/216840/ | 17:28 |
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| asselin_ | where is sdague's tool? | 17:29 |
| skylerberg | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/192253/ | 17:29 |
| skylerberg | This is the spec | 17:29 |
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| skylerberg | #link https://github.com/sdague/ci-watch | 17:30 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg, you'll need a spec | 17:30 |
| skylerberg | I don't see a lot of code in the github and I don't know if more exists somewhere else. | 17:30 |
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| skylerberg | krtaylor: Will I need a spec before creating the project? | 17:30 |
| krtaylor | that's what we are proposing with https://review.openstack.org/#/c/194437/ | 17:30 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg, yes, that is what we were told when we discussed it with the infra team | 17:31 |
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| krtaylor | as per jeblair | 17:31 |
| krtaylor | and fungi | 17:31 |
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| skylerberg | Okay, in that case I will get on open sourcing it on GitHub for the time being. | 17:32 |
| krtaylor | so, there are 2 other alternatives in our repository | 17:32 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg, feel free to add yours to the mix | 17:32 |
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| sweston | I would really prefer that this work be integrated into Radar. So far, I have completed the implementation of all of the components which are typically in an openstack project. | 17:33 |
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| sweston | This was a lot of work, and a lot of code, which nobody has reviewed (to my knowledge). | 17:33 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg, https://github.com/stackforge/third-party-ci-tools/tree/master/monitoring | 17:33 |
| krtaylor | sweston, agreed | 17:34 |
| sweston | At this point, I am ready to add Gerrit queries to the project, but have been super busy with getting my startup off the ground. | 17:34 |
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| asselin_ | sweston, do you have it setup running somewhere? | 17:34 |
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| fungi | for some brief history, the ci-watch infra spec is for a dashboard to track job results for the upstream openstack ci and make them more discoverable | 17:34 |
| krtaylor | we could have the best monitor anywhere if we could agree on one :) | 17:34 |
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| fungi | particularly post-merge and periodic jobs | 17:34 |
| krtaylor | fungi, yes periodic | 17:34 |
| fungi | as sort of a front-end and analysis engine linking into our job logs | 17:34 |
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| krtaylor | from the discussion at vancouver | 17:35 |
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| fungi | periodic and post-merge (the latter mostly for things like code coverage jobs which run in the post pipeline) | 17:35 |
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| krtaylor | periodic != CI, thats why it is confusing | 17:35 |
| asselin_ | yes, it seems to connects to graphite so wouldn't include 3rd party ci | 17:35 |
| sweston | asselin_: it has been months since anybody has touched it .. I will need to re-deploy the implementation | 17:35 |
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| krtaylor | don't get me wrong, we need it badly (proposed ci-watch for periodic result) | 17:36 |
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| fungi | right, i have a feeling nobody would object to renaming the ci-watch spec. as you say it's mainly frontend glue to logs.openstack.org and graphite.openstack.org | 17:36 |
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| asselin_ | sweston, i think that will help create interest | 17:36 |
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| krtaylor | fungi, but at vancouver, the goal was to make it extensable so that third party systems could post periodic results | 17:37 |
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| sweston | asselin_: ok, I will try to free up some cycles this week to make it available again | 17:37 |
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| krtaylor | but that is a point to take up in sdague's spec I guess | 17:37 |
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| fungi | krtaylor: yes, that was part of the wishlist for it | 17:37 |
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| krtaylor | fungi, thanks for jumping in here! | 17:38 |
| fungi | np | 17:38 |
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| skylerberg | For the time being, my CI Watch should be useful because it is hosted and has some nifty features. | 17:38 |
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| krtaylor | skylerberg, do you have an existing github repo? | 17:39 |
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| skylerberg | Not at the moment, but that will be changed very soon. I was waiting to host on gerrit | 17:39 |
| skylerberg | but it sounds like that will not be quick. | 17:39 |
| asselin_ | skylerberg, thanks I've been using it to find issues with my ci. | 17:39 |
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| krtaylor | feel free to host it at https://github.com/stackforge/third-party-ci-tools/tree/master/monitoring | 17:39 |
| skylerberg | asselin_: Great to hear! | 17:39 |
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| asselin_ | skylerberg, one change I'd add is a Jenkins +1 option (instead of or in addition to -1) | 17:40 |
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| skylerberg | asselin_: That is a good idea, I am taking notes. | 17:40 |
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| skylerberg | Since there are several older alternatives, I would not be opposed to seeing all the features people like from CI Watch moved into them. | 17:41 |
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| asselin_ | skylerberg, +1 | 17:41 |
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| asselin_ | honestly I think if you can open source your code and sweston can get his running, we can compare the 3 | 17:42 |
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| asselin_ | and take the best parts of all and converge to a single solution | 17:42 |
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| krtaylor | note: there is also a PoC module | 17:43 |
| krtaylor | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/214823/ | 17:43 |
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| krtaylor | mmedvede did for scoreboard | 17:43 |
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| asselin_ | krtaylor, yes, that's to get scoreboard running.... | 17:43 |
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| krtaylor | the thing is they are all good enough, but we need to decide now on which horse to ride | 17:44 |
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| skylerberg | asselin_: Agreed. Until we have a chosen solution that is hosted and is roughly comparable to CI Watch in terms of features, then I think some amount of parallel development on each solution will be fine. | 17:44 |
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| krtaylor | does someone care to make a table comparing features on the three 4 proposed solutions? | 17:45 |
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| asselin_ | my concern is there's a lot of effort to create and maintain the puppet modules and get it in infra | 17:45 |
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| rfolco | it would be good to have a table of features comparing solutions so we pick the starting one, push code from others to the official one. That's a good way to engage others to help (like me)... | 17:45 |
| rfolco | wow krtaylor :) | 17:46 |
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| asselin_ | rfolco, +1 | 17:46 |
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| krtaylor | hehheh, yeah, great idea folco :) | 17:46 |
| krtaylor | else, I'd say lets stay with scoreboard and roll those features into a new super "radar" | 17:46 |
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| sweston | krtaylor: +1 :-) | 17:47 |
| rfolco | I have superficial knowledge of the existing tools, I offer myself as a black-box user to assess and create the table | 17:47 |
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| krtaylor | but the "quick" solution has gotten bogged down by the system... | 17:47 |
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| krtaylor | go rfolco ! | 17:47 |
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| skylerberg | rfolco: Thanks. I think it would be good to see your table and then get input from the developers of each solution. | 17:48 |
| asselin_ | rfolco, I can help with that too. | 17:48 |
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| skylerberg | This will also be a bit of a useability test because we should note the features that exist but are not discovered. | 17:48 |
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| rfolco | +1 skylerberg thats my point about black-box assessment | 17:49 |
| asselin_ | sweston, please ping me and rfolco when yours is up | 17:49 |
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| sweston | asselin_: you bet | 17:49 |
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| krtaylor | patrickeast, is yours still up? | 17:49 |
| patrickeast | krtaylor: good question... | 17:50 |
| * patrickeast checks | 17:50 | |
| asselin_ | I see it | 17:50 |
| krtaylor | hehheh | 17:50 |
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| rfolco | asselin_, I ping you to decide on the table format | 17:50 |
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| patrickeast | the problem is i run one inside my firewall that i use normally | 17:50 |
| asselin_ | rfolco, sure we can take it offline | 17:50 |
| patrickeast | so i don't usually notice if the one on aws goes down | 17:50 |
| asselin_ | #link patrickeast's solution scoreboard http://ec2-54-67-102-119.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com:5000/?project=openstack%2Fcinder&user=&timeframe=24 | 17:50 |
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| asselin_ | so when should we meet back to discuss | 17:52 |
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| asselin_ | next meeting is in 2 weeks | 17:52 |
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| krtaylor | asselin_, feel free to change that, that last vote was that every 2 weeks was enough | 17:53 |
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| krtaylor | but it may not be | 17:53 |
| rfolco | or maybe a temp channel like openstack-ci ? | 17:53 |
| krtaylor | that alrady exists | 17:54 |
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| krtaylor | already too | 17:54 |
| rfolco | :-O | 17:54 |
| krtaylor | I created it months ago | 17:54 |
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| krtaylor | in case we needed it for the launchpad/repo discussion | 17:54 |
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| krtaylor | oops, it is #openstack-third-party-ci | 17:55 |
| rfolco | aaah | 17:55 |
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| krtaylor | so as not to be confused with upstream CI | 17:55 |
| krtaylor | asselin_, ^^ | 17:55 |
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| krtaylor | it could be made official if the team desired, just needs to have the openstack bots added | 17:56 |
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| asselin_ | ok let's use that and see if it sticks | 17:56 |
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| krtaylor | cool | 17:57 |
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| rfolco | light agenda krtaylor ? :) | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | but, keep in mind that we need to be careful to not alienate | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | we need to stay lock-step with infra | 17:57 |
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| krtaylor | so efforts will need to be made to cross inform | 17:58 |
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| asselin_ | krtaylor, good point | 17:58 |
| krtaylor | thats the danger with a new channel | 17:58 |
| krtaylor | rfolco, I know! that always happens :) | 17:58 |
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| krtaylor | ok, well we are close to time, it has been a pleasure working with you all | 17:59 |
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| krtaylor | I'll still be around | 17:59 |
| asselin_ | krtaylor, thank you | 17:59 |
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| sweston | krtaylor: thanks krtaylor!!! | 17:59 |
| rfolco | thanks krtaylor | 17:59 |
| krtaylor | bye everybody | 17:59 |
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| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 18:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 18:00:13 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-01-17.01.html | 18:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-01-17.01.txt | 18:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/third_party/2015/third_party.2015-09-01-17.01.log.html | 18:00 |
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| lbragstad | ping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, ericksonsantos, geoffarnold, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, morganfainberg, nkinder, raildo, rharwood, rodrigods, roxanaghe, samueldmq, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong | 18:00 |
| * ayoung her | 18:00 | |
| topol | o/ | 18:00 |
| * ayoung here | 18:00 | |
| hogepodge | o/ | 18:00 |
| marekd | \o/ | 18:00 |
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| david8hu | o/o | 18:00 |
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| tsymanczyk | o/ | 18:00 |
| dolphm | o/ | 18:00 |
| dstanek | o/ kinda here | 18:00 |
| marekd | lbragstad: you chairing the meeting? :-) | 18:00 |
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| lhcheng | o/ | 18:00 |
| lbragstad | marekd: gonna try, short notice | 18:01 |
| amakarov_away | o/ | 18:01 |
| * geoffarnold is lurking -- in a firefighting session here at work | 18:01 | |
| lbragstad | feel free to throw tomatoes | 18:01 |
| breton_ | o/ | 18:01 |
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| marekd | lbragstad: #goLanceGo | 18:01 |
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| topol | lbragstad now I know why your dogs are hungry. You are doing this! | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | topol: right?! | 18:01 |
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| lbragstad | #startmeeting keystone | 18:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 18:02:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is lbragstad. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:02 |
| bknudson | hi | 18:02 |
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| lbragstad | #topic Slow unit tests bknudson | 18:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Slow unit tests bknudson (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:02 | |
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| lbragstad | bknudson: o/ | 18:02 |
| morgan | O/ | 18:02 |
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| bknudson | the unit tests slowed down a lot | 18:02 |
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| bknudson | so now it takes 15 mins where it used to take 5 mins | 18:03 |
| bknudson | and it's because many tests are written incorrectly | 18:03 |
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| gyee | \o | 18:03 |
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| bknudson | they're setting up for REST calls even when most of them don't need to | 18:03 |
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| marekd | bknudson: but why the the time increased 3x just now? | 18:03 |
| bknudson | so I've proposed a few patches already to get rid of some REST testing | 18:03 |
| ayoung | bknudson, ++ | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | bknudson, what about the sql stuff? Is that still slowing things down, too? | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | I think this is related to us using entry points | 18:04 |
| gyee | bknudson, rest testing going to move to func tests right? | 18:04 |
| dstanek | marekd: it's because i moved the paste.ini to use entry points | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | #link http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/keystone/commit/?id=4bda26a7e391129366fcfdde2fe84258f6b7493a | 18:04 |
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| morgan | ayoung: SQL is pretty sane arm | 18:04 |
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| morgan | Atm | 18:04 |
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| ayoung | morgan, we doing mysql or sqlite? | 18:04 |
| lbragstad | there is a fix up to do caching, too | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219323/ | 18:05 |
| bknudson | using entry points for paste is a legitimate change. I don't think we should blame that change for it. | 18:05 |
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| bknudson | the tests were incorrect to begin with. the change to use entry points just exposed that we're doing testing incorrectly | 18:05 |
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| morgan | ayoung: SQLite in unit | 18:05 |
| ayoung | bknudson, we should judge that empirically, though. If the entry points are slowing things down, it should be easy to determine | 18:05 |
| dstanek | the fix makes the tests runs in the same time as they were before | 18:06 |
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| ayoung | morgan, in memory? | 18:06 |
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| morgan | ayoung: yes | 18:06 |
| ayoung | k | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: do you have a change branch for all the tests your fixing? | 18:06 |
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| lbragstad | s/change branch/topic branch/ | 18:07 |
| bknudson | lbragstad: y, topic:bug/1490160 | 18:07 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: perfect, thanks | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | I haven't made a whole lot of progress but that's where I'll make the changes | 18:07 |
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| lbragstad | #link for anyone who wants to help - https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1490160 | 18:07 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1490160 in Keystone "Unit tests are super slow" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Brant Knudson (blk-u) | 18:07 |
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| bknudson | I'm thinking about setting up a hackathon to get the tests under control. | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson: ++ do you have a date in mind? | 18:08 |
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| bknudson | wouldn't be this week since I'm at the security mid-cycle | 18:08 |
| bknudson | maybe next week? | 18:08 |
| bknudson | if anybody else is interested... | 18:08 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson: maybe send out a couple proposals to the ML? | 18:08 |
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| gyee | what hackathon? | 18:09 |
| lbragstad | bknudson: if you can get a "title" for it, I'll have more leverage to work on it | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | lbragstad: I can send out a proposal to the ML | 18:09 |
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| bknudson | gyee: a hackathon to work on the tests and get them to do less REST testing | 18:09 |
| gyee | I mean you are running it in #openstack-keystone irc? | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | essentially to pay down the technical debt | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | gyee: #openstack-keystone or maybe a new channel just for it? | 18:10 |
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| gyee | bknudson, k, I'll see I can get some folks to join from here as well | 18:10 |
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| bknudson | either way works for me. I don't want to get disrupted by other chatter on openstack-keystone | 18:10 |
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| lbragstad | bknudson: anything else on the tests? | 18:12 |
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| bknudson | nope, that was it. | 18:12 |
| lbragstad | #topic Reseller htruta, henrynash | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Reseller htruta, henrynash (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
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| lbragstad | htruta: o/ | 18:12 |
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| lbragstad | well we can circle back on that | 18:13 |
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| lbragstad | #topic critical bugs | 18:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "critical bugs (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:13 | |
| lbragstad | dstanek: o/ | 18:13 |
| morgan | lbragstad: they just want reviews | 18:14 |
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| lbragstad | morgan: sounds good | 18:14 |
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| lbragstad | I was working a bit with dstanek on these yesterday; | 18:14 |
| dstanek | anyone have objections to closing those bugs out? | 18:15 |
| lbragstad | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1434034 | 18:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1434034 in Keystone juno "Disabling users & groups may not invalidate previously-issued tokens" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 18:15 |
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| lbragstad | and #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1459828 and #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1466485 | 18:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1459828 in Keystone "keystone-all crashes when ca_certs is not defined in conf" [Critical,Incomplete] | 18:15 |
| bknudson | what do you mean by closing out? | 18:15 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1466485 in grenade "keystone fails with: ArgsAlreadyParsedError: arguments already parsed: cannot register CLI option" [Undecided,In progress] - Assigned to Ihar Hrachyshka (ihar-hrachyshka) | 18:15 |
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| bknudson | don't fix them? | 18:15 |
| gyee | as Working-as-Expected? :) | 18:15 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: that's what i'm asking :-) some of the (i think) don't have any Keystone work | 18:16 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: i think we need to document the behavior | 18:16 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: no code fix, iirc | 18:16 |
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| lbragstad | dolphm: ++ | 18:17 |
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| dolphm | and no OSSN work has been done, which might be sufficient documentation? | 18:17 |
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| lbragstad | for https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1434034 for sure | 18:17 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1434034 in Keystone juno "Disabling users & groups may not invalidate previously-issued tokens" [Critical,In progress] - Assigned to Morgan Fainberg (mdrnstm) | 18:17 |
| dstanek | i just wanted to raise awareness since these are marked as critical | 18:17 |
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| bknudson | we'll set aside some time at the ossg meetup to work on ossns. | 18:17 |
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| samueldmq | hello all, sorry I am late | 18:18 |
| morgan | That one can be downgraded to high | 18:18 |
| bknudson | another option is to mark them not critical | 18:18 |
| morgan | Or medium | 18:18 |
| dolphm | bknudson: cool; is there something we should have done on the keystone side to keep the OSSN ball moving? | 18:18 |
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| bknudson | dolphm: no, I just think ossg folks haven't had time to work on the ossns. | 18:18 |
| dolphm | morgan: Won't Fix in keystone, but Medium OSSN? | 18:18 |
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| dolphm | (although i'm not 100% sure how OSSN uses priorities) | 18:20 |
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| morgan | dolphm: yah let ossg do things with prop | 18:20 |
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| bknudson | we'll go through and triage the ossn bugs... there's 14 of them. | 18:20 |
| morgan | Prio | 18:20 |
| dolphm | okay, i'm going to mark it as Medium across the board, Won't Fix in keystone, and i'll leave a comment | 18:21 |
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| morgan | Ok | 18:21 |
| htruta | lbragstad: looks like I am too late :( was at another meeting | 18:21 |
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| lbragstad | htruta: no worries, we'll circle back | 18:21 |
| htruta | cool | 18:21 |
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| lbragstad | dolphm: do we need an action item for that? | 18:22 |
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| lbragstad | dstanek: anything else for critical bugs? | 18:23 |
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| dstanek | lbragstad: nope, just wanted to raise awareness here | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | dstanek: thanks, moving on | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | #topic Reseller (round 2!) | 18:24 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Reseller (round 2!) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:24 | |
| lbragstad | htruta: o/ | 18:24 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: already DONE | 18:24 |
| htruta | lbragstad: o/ | 18:24 |
| lbragstad | dolphm: thanks! | 18:24 |
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| dolphm | lbragstad: morgan: bknudson: https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1434034/comments/58 | 18:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1434034 in OpenStack Security Notes "Disabling users & groups may not invalidate previously-issued tokens" [Medium,Confirmed] - Assigned to Dave Walker (davewalker) | 18:25 |
| bknudson | not sure how bug/1459828 got to be critical anyways | 18:25 |
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| htruta | so, guys... as henrynash may've talked to you before, we're running out of time for it... We need to know if we really are going to put reseller in Liberty | 18:25 |
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| bknudson | htruta: you need at least 2 cores to agree to review the changes. | 18:26 |
| htruta | we had a great help from ayoung recently... but we still need some reviews. the patches are much smaller, as dstanek suggested | 18:26 |
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| htruta | bknudson: yes, I know that... We had henry at most of time | 18:26 |
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| htruta | and sometimes, dstanek and ayoung | 18:27 |
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| lbragstad | htruta: do you have link to the topic branch? | 18:27 |
| lbragstad | htruta: or a series of commits, since they are smaller now? | 18:28 |
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| htruta | lbragstad: just a sec | 18:28 |
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| bknudson | if you can't get at least 2 cores to sign up to review the changes for liberty then it's not likely that it's going to be in liberty. | 18:28 |
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| htruta | lbragstad: this is the first patch of the chain now: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213448/ | 18:29 |
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| lbragstad | htruta: so #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:master+topic:bp/reseller,n,z should be everything related to reseller that needs to be reviewed? | 18:29 |
| htruta | bknudson: agreed. That's why I'm talking here. To see if there is any other core interested on that | 18:30 |
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| htruta | lbragstad: https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/keystone+branch:master+topic:bp/add-isdomain-to-token,n,z | 18:30 |
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| htruta | these ones are strictly related too. they just need a rebase since yesterday's merge | 18:30 |
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| lbragstad | htruta: so those will require a rebase before reviewing, i assume | 18:31 |
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| lbragstad | htruta: anything else you want to request reviews for? | 18:31 |
| htruta | lbragstad: sure. will do it today | 18:31 |
| htruta | lbragstad: that's it for now | 18:32 |
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| lbragstad | htruta: cool, thanks | 18:32 |
| lbragstad | #topic open discussion | 18:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:32 | |
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| bknudson | ossg meetup is this week... not sure if we'll talk about anything keystone specific | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | other than we're planning to work on ossn | 18:32 |
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| bknudson | we'll be working on some bandit improvements | 18:34 |
| bknudson | docs and unit tests and stuff | 18:34 |
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| dolphm | bknudson: what days? | 18:34 |
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| bknudson | working on bandit this morning... | 18:34 |
| bknudson | they were talking about tomorrow afternoon for ossn | 18:35 |
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| bknudson | the meetup goes today to friday | 18:35 |
| bknudson | through friday | 18:35 |
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| bknudson | PAX was yesterday so there were a bunch of cosplayers walking around | 18:35 |
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| lbragstad | so, liberty-3 is suppose to be this week, right? | 18:36 |
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| marekd | Sep 3rd ? | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | https://launchpad.net/keystone/+milestone/liberty-3 | 18:36 |
| lbragstad | I think so, | 18:36 |
| dolphm | lbragstad: yes | 18:36 |
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| dolphm | marekd: now through sept 3 | 18:36 |
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| marekd | dstanek: oh, btw, you were talking about bugs: There is one looong standing and i thnk there is patch ready for a review: so the bug is https://bugs.launchpad.net/keystone/+bug/1291157 and patch https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210456/ | 18:37 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1291157 in Keystone "idp deletion should trigger token revocation" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Marek Denis (marek-denis) | 18:37 |
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| marekd | if anyone is willing to take a look, that would be great - dstanek already did in earlier rounds :-) | 18:38 |
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| lbragstad | marekd: I've been meaning to follow back up on that, I'll add it to my queue | 18:38 |
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| marekd | lbragstad: thanks. | 18:38 |
| dstanek | marekd: i'll take a look after this meeting - i think i have it starred alfready | 18:38 |
| marekd | dstanek: great | 18:39 |
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| marekd | are bugs also constrained to libery-3 milestone or they can be approved/landed later? | 18:39 |
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| lbragstad | marekd: I think we can land those after bug I'm not 100% sure | 18:40 |
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| lbragstad | if we *have* to | 18:40 |
| marekd | lbragstad: that would be good i think. | 18:40 |
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| lbragstad | blueprints are obviously where the cutoff is | 18:41 |
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| lbragstad | anyone have anything else to bring up? | 18:41 |
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| lbragstad | reviews, bug triaging? | 18:41 |
| amakarov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198418/16 | 18:42 |
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| amakarov | I've done performance testing | 18:42 |
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| lbragstad | amakarov: ah! yeah I had a question on that.. do we have numbers on what kind of performance that gets us? | 18:42 |
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| lbragstad | amakarov: I think gyee asked that before, I was just following it up | 18:43 |
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| amakarov | lbragstad, I've stated the numbers in commit message | 18:43 |
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| amakarov | is it what you are looking for? | 18:43 |
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| morgan | I will be cleaning up the milestones today | 18:44 |
| lbragstad | amakarov: you stated numbers in the latest commit message? | 18:44 |
| morgan | Btw | 18:44 |
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| bknudson | dirty milestones | 18:44 |
| amakarov | load-test is in 16 CR only - if causes tests to fail (to expose prints :) ) | 18:44 |
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| amakarov | lbragstad, no, in 16 only | 18:44 |
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| amakarov | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/198418/16 | 18:45 |
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| lbragstad | amakarov: ah, got it | 18:45 |
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| lbragstad | amakarov: thanks | 18:45 |
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| lbragstad | if no one has anything else; we can probably end a bit early and give everyone a few minutes to do a review :) | 18:45 |
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| lbragstad | thanks all! | 18:46 |
| lbragstad | #endmeeting | 18:46 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 18:46 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 18:46:39 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-01-18.02.html | 18:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-01-18.02.txt | 18:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2015/keystone.2015-09-01-18.02.log.html | 18:46 |
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| jeblair | another short keystone meeting! | 19:00 |
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| Clint | o/ | 19:00 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:00 |
| mordred | o/ | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
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| clarkb | helo | 19:00 |
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| fungi | hey-o1 | 19:01 |
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| * fungi will just leave his cryptic typos uncorrected | 19:01 | |
| jeblair | clarkb: 250 Hello | 19:01 |
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| jeblair | #startmeeting infra | 19:01 |
| clarkb | I am going to hvae to go read up on smtp now | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 19:01:37 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jeblair. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:01 | |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:01 |
| anteaya | <-- slow train wifi | 19:01 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:01 |
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| ruagair | O/ | 19:01 |
| mordred | jeblair: ELHO | 19:01 |
| mmmpork | o/ | 19:01 |
| mordred | gah | 19:01 |
| fungi | hah | 19:02 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:02 |
| Clint | you mean EHLO | 19:02 |
| * mordred is a bad mail server | 19:02 | |
| ociuhandu | o/ | 19:02 |
| rbradfor | o/ | 19:02 |
| jeblair | clarkb: just issue "HELP" :) | 19:02 |
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| fungi | indeed. are you running exchange? | 19:02 |
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| Clint | that's just mean | 19:02 |
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| jeblair | #link agenda https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:02 |
| jeblair | #link previous meeting http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-08-25-19.00.html | 19:02 |
| * mordred cries in the corner | 19:02 | |
| * fungi is cruel and insensitive when it comes to mtas | 19:02 | |
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| jeblair | all the actions from last meeting were done and involved sending mail, so skipping that. | 19:03 |
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| mordred | email is so last week | 19:03 |
| nibalizer | woo | 19:03 |
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| jeblair | #topic Specs approval | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| jeblair | #info Host Stackalytics Service spec was approved | 19:03 |
| jeblair | #link Host Stackalytics Service spec https://review.openstack.org/#/c/187715/ | 19:03 |
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| mordred | woot | 19:03 |
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| pabelanger | Yay | 19:03 |
| jeblair | er, i got distracted and didn't push the button on that until just now, but it's totally legit | 19:03 |
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| mordred | is it too legit? | 19:03 |
| anteaya | no | 19:04 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:04 |
| mordred | phew | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:04 | |
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| jeblair | i also didn't clean out the agenda last week; are there zanata things to discuss? | 19:04 |
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| mmmpork | mordred: too legit to quit? (hey! hey!) | 19:04 |
| clarkb | yes | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Migration to Zanata) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| clarkb | stevenk, carlos and I will be doing a bunch of the work to transition from transifex to zanata this week | 19:05 |
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| fungi | zanata would be good to stay on top of just because of the impending cut-over | 19:05 |
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| clarkb | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/zanata-deploy | 19:05 |
| jhesketh | Morning | 19:05 |
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| crinkle | o/ | 19:05 |
| clarkb | thats the draft set of steps that pleia2 left us with to go through, if anyone else notices somethng wrong there please do let us know | 19:05 |
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| jeblair | the cutover is next week, yeah? | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | basic idea is we copy users from -dev over to prod so that the group management doesn't have to be redone | 19:06 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yes | 19:06 |
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| fungi | well, the announcement said "no later than" implying it _could_ happen sooner | 19:06 |
| anteaya | morning jhesketh | 19:06 |
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| fungi | but certainly doesn't have to | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | then we populate the projects using the jeepyb script, then we import to zanata from transifex and finally flip the switch on the jenkins proposal jobs to use the zanata prod server | 19:06 |
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| clarkb | I expect it to not happen until then just because there are a few things to work thorugh | 19:06 |
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| mordred | this is very exciting | 19:07 |
| clarkb | so I may be asking for help on reviews or babysitting certain steps of that but I intend to do as much as I can | 19:07 |
| jeblair | should we schedule a time? | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: ya I need to talk to carlos and find out how soon he can get the user script thing done | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | as I think everything else is just ready to go so scheduling depends on when the user migration can happen | 19:07 |
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| clarkb | I also need to investigate if we can put transifex into read only mode | 19:08 |
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| clarkb | that idea just occured to me | 19:08 |
| jeblair | clarkb: okay, so plan is basically: get script from carlos, then find soonest reasonable time to run it? | 19:08 |
| clarkb | jeblair: yup | 19:08 |
| anteaya | +1 user migration | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | #info zanata migration to be scheduled pending receipt of user migration script from carlos | 19:09 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: cool, anything else? | 19:09 |
| anteaya | does carlos know we are waiting for him? | 19:09 |
| clarkb | anteaya: yes there have been many emails | 19:09 |
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| anteaya | great | 19:09 |
| clarkb | I will reping and make sure that everyone is on the same page | 19:09 |
| clarkb | jeblair: nope thats it | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | cool, thanks! | 19:10 |
| jeblair | #topic Priority Efforts (Downstream Puppet) | 19:10 |
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| jeblair | we chatted about this in email | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | and i think yolanda, i, and fbo all replied similarly | 19:11 |
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| jeblair | have we achieved consensus? | 19:11 |
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| nibalizer | I haven't responded to the thread but I agree with the way forward | 19:12 |
| mordred | I agree with everyone | 19:12 |
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| anteaya | this is the apache module question?? | 19:12 |
| jeblair | anteaya: yes | 19:12 |
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| clarkb | well didn't everyone agree two different options were fine? | 19:12 |
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| clarkb | maybe I misread but I wasn't sure that we had decided on a specific option | 19:12 |
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| anteaya | I have no opinion just trying to follow along | 19:13 |
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| jeblair | clarkb: i think the important thing is "create and use httpd::mod" | 19:13 |
| fungi | specific options, presumably, for the various bugs we're encountering | 19:13 |
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| nibalizer | I think creating httpd::mod and use it everywhere is the plan | 19:13 |
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| clarkb | ok wfm | 19:14 |
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| fungi | i'm mostly curious what the way forward is on parent directories for configuration | 19:14 |
| jeblair | there are some suggestions as to how to actually implement it which are easy to tweak and change later, but getting buy in to the idea that we should use httpd::mod to encapsulate the ordering needed, and we should change our manifests to use that are the big things i think | 19:14 |
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| fungi | the module dependencies is easy enough to work around regardless | 19:14 |
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| jeblair | fungi: apparently parent dir file resources are autorequired | 19:15 |
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| nibalizer | fungi: should be easy enough, i'll be happy to work with you next time it comes up | 19:15 |
| nibalizer | jeblair: in fungi's case the file resource doesn't exist because we expect the package to handle that | 19:15 |
| jeblair | maybe this is referencing a thing i missed? | 19:15 |
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| jeblair | ah; configuration file requires package? | 19:16 |
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| fungi | right, i have a review for etherpad_lite currently in limbo waiting to figure out how we want to move forward | 19:16 |
| jeblair | fungi: link? | 19:16 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/215169 | 19:16 |
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| fungi | config files go in directories the package creates on installation | 19:17 |
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| fungi | we're puppeting the configs as regular file resources | 19:17 |
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| fungi | but also setting a notify to the service on some | 19:17 |
| clarkb | fungi: related to that have we swapped out etherpad-dev yet? anything I can do to help with that (other than unlimboing this change) | 19:17 |
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| fungi | clarkb: we have not, but i saw the change merged yesterday so i can work on that in the background during the next two meetings | 19:18 |
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| jeblair | fungi: it seems like setting a require => Package[httpd] would do, right? (or require => Package[httpd::package] to deal with variable package names) | 19:18 |
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| nibalizer | jeblair: fungi yes I think so | 19:18 |
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| fungi | jeblair: tried but the notify of the service causes a circular dependency. i'll see if i can find other solutions along those lines | 19:19 |
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| nibalizer | we can refactor the httpd module to have an 'httpd::install' class that you can hang on to, is one solution | 19:19 |
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| fungi | right, it seems like there's a couple possible ways to do it if we want the httpd module to be handed those files | 19:20 |
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| fungi | rather than treating them as regular file resources in the consuming module | 19:20 |
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| jeblair | anything else? | 19:22 |
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| fungi | nope, just making sure we don't conclude the discussion on the ml without addressing all the ordering issues which seemed to crop up from the module rename | 19:22 |
| fungi | so i'll continue to follow up there | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | fungi, nibalizer: cool, thanks | 19:22 |
| jeblair | #topic The Outreachy internship with our team has completed, congratulations taron! | 19:22 |
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| jeblair | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-internships/2015-August/000025.html | 19:23 |
| nibalizer | gj taron | 19:23 |
| fungi | thanks for the help, taron!!! | 19:23 |
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| anteaya | well done taron | 19:23 |
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| fungi | (and feel free to stick around and help us finish, or help with other things, or just hang out) | 19:23 |
| mordred | ++ | 19:24 |
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| anteaya | and share your feedback with us | 19:24 |
| jeblair | yay! it seems like we're pretty close to having it up and running too; i know i'm looking forward to it :) | 19:24 |
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| anteaya | yay hound | 19:25 |
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| fungi | yeah, the progress was good and implies the plan and choice of software was solid, though there are still some upstream improvements which would be helpful too | 19:25 |
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| anteaya | yes good planning | 19:25 |
| fungi | for taron or anyone else who thinks they want to try hacking in go | 19:25 |
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| mordred | yes please | 19:26 |
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| mordred | like https://github.com/etsy/hound/issues/119 | 19:26 |
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| jeblair | #link https://github.com/etsy/hound/issues/119 | 19:26 |
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| * mordred looks around for people interested in writing go | 19:26 | |
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| jeblair | #topic Open discussion | 19:27 |
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| Clint | i'm soliciting negative feedback on | 19:27 |
| Clint | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219372/ | 19:27 |
| jeblair | woo! | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | also, nobody ever solicits NEGATIVE feedback! | 19:28 |
| fungi | right on | 19:28 |
| anteaya | puppet sprint sarts tomorrow: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Puppet_OpenStack | 19:28 |
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| fungi | i'll be sure to get as negative as my liquor cabinet can get me | 19:28 |
| anteaya | Clint: only negative? | 19:28 |
| fungi | Clint: thanks for taking this on, btw. most appreciated | 19:28 |
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| jeblair | oh that's looking so helpful already | 19:29 |
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| Clint | anteaya: well, negative is probably more helpful at this point | 19:29 |
| zaro | mordred: just tried my hand at some Go. might try some more soon. | 19:29 |
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| clarkb | out of curiousity why yaml and not just rst or markdown or similar human readable listing? | 19:29 |
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| fungi | rbradfor: do you want to plug your discussion thread on making code coverage reports more consumable? | 19:29 |
| jeblair | clarkb: yaml is human readable! | 19:29 |
| clarkb | jeblair: barely | 19:30 |
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| asselin_ | o/ | 19:30 |
| jeblair | clarkb: you wound me | 19:30 |
| anteaya | Clint: I'll read when I'm cranky | 19:30 |
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| clarkb | jeblair: its good for when computers have to consume the data structure too | 19:30 |
| Clint | clarkb: structure seemed appealing, and i was thinking about color-coding based on tags and such | 19:30 |
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| Clint | which would be more work in .rst | 19:30 |
| clarkb | and its not clear to me that that is the case here seems more geared towards humans for which rst would be better imo | 19:30 |
| anteaya | asselin_: you will want to see this: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219372/2/status/openstackci.yaml | 19:30 |
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| Clint | clarkb: could be premature optimziation | 19:31 |
| Clint | pretend i can spell | 19:31 |
| fungi | looking for any other feedback on my artifact signing spec. i'll submit it for approval in a week | 19:31 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/213295 | 19:31 |
| clarkb | anyways I am reading the zanata file and I am not sure I understand what it is trying to tell me | 19:31 |
| clarkb | so thats my feedback | 19:31 |
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| asselin_ | anteaya, looking | 19:33 |
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| fungi | yeah, i think more a more structured schema might help for the yaml. right now it's a little too extensible | 19:33 |
| jeblair | clarkb: i get that carlos is working on a script, and then we need to run some stuff (which no one is working on) | 19:33 |
| fungi | feels more like a linked list of structs ;) | 19:33 |
| jeblair | i also get that maniphest is danger-zone | 19:33 |
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| asselin_ | anteaya, Clint does it generate into the docs or not yet? | 19:34 |
| Clint | asselin_: only if you run it by hand | 19:34 |
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| fungi | Clint: i can point you to a couple example sphinx plugins where we autogenerate documentation from structured data and a script | 19:34 |
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| Clint | fungi: sounds good | 19:35 |
| fungi | thanks, wilhelm, that's super helpful | 19:35 |
| jeblair | Clint: i think the openstack/governance repo has some scripts that process yaml for inclusion into sphinx | 19:35 |
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| fungi | the openstack/ossa repo too | 19:35 |
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| mordred | jeblair: yah. mhu returned from vacation yesterday and is quite willing to help figure out the cauth->maniphest bit | 19:35 |
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| zaro | haven't been keeping up, but what is the status of maniphest? | 19:35 |
| jeblair | mordred: awesome! | 19:36 |
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| zaro | ohh i see still waiting for cauth | 19:36 |
| mordred | zaro: current next step is "take mhu's cauth-openid work and figure out how to deploy it in front of maniphest | 19:36 |
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| mordred | zaro: I believe the relevant openid support is now in cauth - we just need to actually do the integration work now | 19:37 |
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| fungi | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/ossa/tree/doc/source/_exts | 19:37 |
| fungi | Clint: ^ | 19:37 |
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| Clint | fungi: thanks | 19:38 |
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| fungi | Clint: also... | 19:38 |
| fungi | #link https://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/tree/doc/source/_exts | 19:38 |
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| * Clint nods. | 19:38 | |
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| fungi | add your extension entrypoint to the conf.py in the parent directory | 19:39 |
| fungi | and it'll get run automagically | 19:40 |
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| fungi | then you can reuse our existing documentation testing and publishing jobs | 19:40 |
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| Clint | definitely sounds cleaner than what i was thinking | 19:40 |
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| asselin_ | Clint, thanks, I'll add comments | 19:41 |
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| fungi | also, on second look there is more structure in the pm yaml, i think it was just overwhelmed by having references and todo lists first, so maybe just a little reordering would help skimmability | 19:42 |
| pabelanger | Sure people know, but di-b is currently failing for ubuntu trusty dibs. If somebody won't mind looking at https://review.openstack.org/#/c/219199/ | 19:42 |
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| greghaynes | pabelanger: there is a fix up | 19:43 |
| greghaynes | oh, I should poke people about that | 19:43 |
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| Clint | fungi: yeah, i just sorted them all for uniform ordering without other considerations | 19:44 |
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| fungi | that would be a key difference between machine-friendly and human-readable | 19:44 |
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| fungi | anyway, i'll chuck some noise into a review comment. looks good so far | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | cool, i think we'll wrap it up this week then | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | thanks everyone! | 19:45 |
| jeblair | #endmeeting | 19:46 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:46 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 19:46:05 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:46 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-01-19.01.html | 19:46 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-01-19.01.txt | 19:46 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2015/infra.2015-09-01-19.01.log.html | 19:46 |
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| hashar | jeblair: thank you for those meetings and the minutes. That let me catch up asynchronously :} | 19:58 |
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| jeblair | hashar: yay! you're welcome! | 19:59 |
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| ttx | Anyone here for the TC meeting ? | 20:00 |
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| russellb | hi | 20:00 |
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| * Rockyg is lurking as usual | 20:00 | |
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| jeblair | ttx: o/ | 20:00 |
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| * edleafe lurks too | 20:00 | |
| ttx | jgriffith, annegentle, lifeless, mordred, flaper87, dtroyer, markmcclain, jaypipes, sdague, dhellmann: around ? | 20:01 |
| * dims lurking | 20:01 | |
| dtroyer | o/ | 20:01 |
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| markmcclain | o/ | 20:01 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:01 |
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| dhellmann | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 20:01:24 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #topic OpenStack programming languages resolution | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack programming languages resolution (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/217710 | 20:01 |
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| sdague | o/ | 20:01 |
| ttx | So this resolution is about writing down that new languages are OK, but the TC will consider them in a case-by-case basis | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Currently it's undefined -- some people consider this is not a factor in their decision, and some others (like me) make it part of their decision when considering new project teams | 20:02 |
| flaper87 | ttx: you may want to time-box this | 20:02 |
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| ttx | So I think this clarifies and sets expectations | 20:02 |
| ttx | yep, timeboxed to 30min | 20:02 |
| lifeless | ttx: o/ | 20:02 |
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| ttx | Now there are more than one objection to this resolution, and I'd like to understand them | 20:02 |
| ttx | sdague and lifeless say (I think) that this is a top-down edict preventing picking up the right tool for the job. | 20:02 |
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| cpallares | o/ | 20:02 |
| ttx | I don't think it does: it doesn't say "only Python", it actually says the contrary. | 20:02 |
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| ttx | It explicitly states that other programming languages are OK. It just recognizes that there is a cost associated with supporting them and therefore we need to have a discussion about them first. | 20:03 |
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| ttx | sdague, lifeless: or are you saying that there is no community cost in adding up languages ? | 20:03 |
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| russellb | intent sounds quite reasonable | 20:03 |
| ttx | or that this cost is by principle offset in all cases by developer convenience, so there is no value in discussing it ? | 20:03 |
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| mordred | o/ | 20:03 |
| lifeless | ttx: I'm saying a few things I think | 20:03 |
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| * flaper87 would also like to understand better lifeless's and sdague's concerns | 20:04 | |
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| lifeless | ttx: in no particular order: the cost model here is really hard to get right. I don't think the prose in the proposal is right; and I don't have a fixed version to offer :( | 20:04 |
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| annegentle | case by case is difficult when you start to evaluate all the surrounding tooling | 20:04 |
| ttx | I think it's the TC's job to ensure the long-term health of our community | 20:04 |
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| ttx | annegentle, zaneb or dtroyer kinda say the proposal addresses just a part of the culture problem, but ignores other parts of the problem (or is not precise enough) | 20:05 |
| ttx | annegentle: I agree with you, but I think due to the nature of the game it's easier to pass small resolutions (and evolve them over time) than to agree on a text that would be final. | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | ttx: ok, that's faiir | 20:05 |
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| ttx | So I consider this an incremental improvement, a stake in the ground | 20:05 |
| annegentle | fair even | 20:05 |
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| mordred | ttx: I agree with that - I think a step is a step forward, even if it's not the last step | 20:05 |
| * zaneb doesn't disagree | 20:05 | |
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| lifeless | ttx: 2) we have actual feedback on languages from the operators - obtained at the last summit, I wrote it up for the list | 20:05 |
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| sdague | ttx: sure, and I think right now, the long term health of our community has been pretty negatively impacted by not having java devs feel welcome, and one of our most critical pieces of project infrastructure is in java (gerrit) | 20:05 |
| ttx | Currently our community is in a grey area where most people assume that only Python is OK, and some people assume that anything is OK. This resolution is about clarifying that | 20:05 |
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| mordred | basically, the "tools are great, but do have an associated cost" is the important part to me | 20:05 |
| lifeless | ttx: -> if we're going to formalise technology choices, I think we want to at a minimum be pulling that dialogue in too | 20:06 |
| dtroyer | mordred: ++ | 20:06 |
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| annegentle | mordred: I'm there too. Esp. reading about vulnerability management | 20:06 |
| annegentle | I want sustainability and long-term thinking. | 20:06 |
| dtroyer | I think we should at least say that those costs need to be included when considering a proposal | 20:06 |
| ttx | sdague: because we've been sidestepping that discussion | 20:06 |
| mordred | dtroyer: ++ | 20:06 |
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| lifeless | ttx: 3) thinking about 'the code /we create/ as all of openstack' is a mistake IMO: the code is transitive all the way down | 20:06 |
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| lifeless | ttx: and the proposal didn't have any aknowledgment of that | 20:07 |
| sdague | lifeless: ++ | 20:07 |
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| ttx | lifeless: I respectfully disagree. i think we need to consider the community cost, not just the end result | 20:07 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: ++ | 20:07 |
| lifeless | ttx: the question about developer costs is not IMO 'what does it take for dev X to switch code bases', but 'what does it take for dev X to fix arbitrary bug Y that they care about' | 20:07 |
| ttx | because without a community we won't have an end result | 20:07 |
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| jaypipes | lifeless: what do you mean by that? sorry, I'm not sure what you mean by "code is transtive all the way down"? | 20:07 |
| sdague | because assuming the varnish layer is openstack, and the rest of it is imatereal, feels really weird. | 20:07 |
| sdague | jaypipes: rabbit | 20:07 |
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| flaper87 | community cost and technical cost are the 2 aspects that I'm more concerned about | 20:08 |
| sdague | zookeeper, casandra, | 20:08 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: rabbit, mysql, zk, kernel, ovs | 20:08 |
| sdague | libvirt | 20:08 |
| lifeless | bash, systemd | 20:08 |
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| mordred | I think those are worthwile things to talk about - but I think if we try to solve all of them now we'll get nowhere | 20:08 |
| lifeless | we've had bugs in all of these | 20:08 |
| mordred | and I don't thin kit's the question at hand | 20:08 |
| flaper87 | mordred: ++ | 20:08 |
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| annegentle | ttx: is the goal of the resolution to help teams decide whether to apply for governance? | 20:08 |
| ttx | sdague: so what ? Because our full stack is coded up in 12 different laguages doesn't mean we should support a community that codes up in 12 different languages *in OpenStack* | 20:08 |
| lifeless | mordred: when we start asking about the costs to do something in the scope of the project | 20:08 |
| mordred | I think the question ttx is trying to clarify is "if someone wants to submit a new openstack project that has some non-python elements in it, is that ok? if so, how much?" | 20:08 |
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| annegentle | ttx: or to describe what we have? | 20:08 |
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| flaper87 | lifeless: we'll keep having them but there are also other communities taking care of those projects that we can collaborate with | 20:09 |
| ttx | mordred: yes. | 20:09 |
| mordred | that is specifically about openstack developer process | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | mordred: exactly | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | exactly, again! | 20:09 |
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| mordred | I TOTALY think that lifeless question is valid and important and we need to dive in to it | 20:09 |
| lifeless | flaper87: but these dependencies are things we opt into. We've already chosen to depend on e.g. erlang | 20:09 |
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| mordred | but I think we can address a tiny bit of the pie that we know is lurking | 20:09 |
| annegentle | I'd still like to hear about SDKs - which should apply for governance based on this resolution? Any? Or Python only? | 20:09 |
| ttx | So, there are exceptions obviously | 20:09 |
| lifeless | The community cost being put up can be thought of in a few ways | 20:09 |
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| flaper87 | lifeless: sure thing, that doesn't mean we all need to learn earlang. And I'm not trying to say it's not important rather than it's adifferent problem | 20:10 |
| ttx | packaging recipes or SDK bindings, you have to use the local idiom to produce those. | 20:10 |
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| lifeless | flaper87: how is it different? | 20:10 |
| ttx | Here we are talking programming languages, something you would code up a whole new service in. | 20:10 |
| ttx | All our services happen to be written in Python today. We do web front-end coding in JS, and devstack is in bash. Period. | 20:10 |
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| lifeless | flaper87: every developer possibly needs to know erlang to fix bugs in openstack | 20:10 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: that seems extreme | 20:10 |
| ttx | lifeless: I... don't think we do | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: I'm failing to see why but it's probably me | 20:10 |
| lifeless | ttx: we have a raft of DSL's that are plenty complex themselves. Are you excluding those ? | 20:10 |
| flaper87 | lifeless: we don't develop rabbit | 20:10 |
| markmcclain | lifeless: not certain I agree with everyone needs to know erlang | 20:10 |
| zaneb | lifeless: the implication of what you're saying is that language choice should be a free-for-all and we don't even need to discuss it. I don't think that's what you want, but not discussing it is the only thing that the resolution proposed really rules out | 20:11 |
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| ttx | flaper87: not just you | 20:11 |
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| annegentle | ttx: services. right. other projects have been added that are Ruby, right? (Chef puppet) | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | ttx: glad to hear | 20:11 |
| dtroyer | flaper87: it isn't you…if rabbit was 'one of us' I would agree | 20:11 |
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| sdague | yeh, so my concern is as follows: we decide we're the python cloud, docker is the go cloud, and mesos is the java cloud. | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | lifeless: if you take that all the way, it means we need to understand VDSL or whatever they use for chip design these days, and I don't think that's true either | 20:11 |
| ttx | annegentle: that's just a downstream packaging format | 20:11 |
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| lifeless | dhellmann: its a tad harder to switch out the hardware vendors :) | 20:11 |
| ttx | we have no service coded up in Ruby | 20:11 |
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| ttx | or Erlang for the matter | 20:11 |
| mordred | sdague: ya. I don't want to be the python cloud. I want to be the excellent open source cloud | 20:11 |
| annegentle | ttx: ok, so your resolution is for service proposals only? Why differentiate? | 20:12 |
| flaper87 | sdague: I'd put it: "we're mostly python but we're cool with a diverse technology base. We just need to know how much and have a good plan to welcome them" | 20:12 |
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| ttx | annegentle: downstream and updtream | 20:12 |
| sdague | flaper87: that's all well and good, it sets a tone | 20:12 |
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| ttx | one is packaging the other | 20:12 |
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| annegentle | I made a list of all the shared resources services get... it's over 20 resources. So do we have separate shared resources for services and "downstream?" | 20:13 |
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| mordred | yeah "in what language(s) do we write the code we collaborate on that we may ship as openstack" | 20:13 |
| lifeless | markmcclain: so they clearly don't all know erlang. But when there is a bug in rabbit that affects us, do we code around it in Python, or do we fix the root cause | 20:13 |
| ttx | basically, if you write apckages, they use a packaging DSL, which happens to overlap bash, or Ruby. | 20:13 |
| crinkle | parts of the puppet modules are written in ruby | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | sdague: mesos is C++, but ok :) | 20:13 |
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| lifeless | markmcclain: If we're talking community, and open source and so on... | 20:13 |
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| * flaper87 will rewrite messos in rustlang | 20:13 | |
| mordred | flaper87: ++ | 20:13 |
| sdague | jaypipes: ok, my bad :) | 20:13 |
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| flaper87 | mesos, even | 20:13 |
| jaypipes | sdague: I got your point, no worries :) | 20:13 |
| ttx | anyway, please consider that of the 3 languages used in current services, only 2 are fully supported by infra. JS is still in progress | 20:14 |
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| sdague | so, here is a concrete thing that has happened | 20:14 |
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| ttx | so the cost is not hypothetical, we are already struggling | 20:14 |
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| jeblair | ttx: java, oddly enough, is actually relatively well supported | 20:14 |
| sdague | one of our large visible community users had a bunch of openstack services written in java, because you can do that thing, and it fits in our architecture. All that sits behind their firewall because they believe if they ever came forward with it they'd be told to shove off. | 20:14 |
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| dhellmann | I would feel a lot better about expanding our language base if we had more people working in cross-project areas for the existing languages | 20:15 |
| ttx | we are also struggling with cross-project issues. AllI'm asking is that we keep the cost in mind when we consider adding more complexity in the dev community | 20:15 |
| ttx | not closing any door | 20:15 |
| jeblair | sdague: it feels like clarifying our position as in ttx's resoultion would be worthwhile then. | 20:15 |
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| mordred | jeblair: ++ | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: right, and I'd feel a lot better if I were sure we can also have a good CI for those languages | 20:15 |
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| edleafe | jeblair: ++ | 20:15 |
| sdague | ok, and the current position seems "shove off" | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: right, that's one part of what I mean | 20:15 |
| russellb | jeblair: ++ | 20:15 |
| lifeless | ttx: so why don't we have a statement that says the same thing about having a service at all ? | 20:16 |
| mordred | and also clarifying, to dhellmann's point - "if you're going to show up with java, you have to know there is a very real non-zero cost to areas that are traditionally hard to staff/fund" | 20:16 |
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| flaper87 | In summary, I don't think anyone is against new languages, I just think we should be cautious and this resolution tries to do that. | 20:16 |
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| ttx | sdague: current position is "nobody knows" because no resolution was swritten on it. You should see the proposed resolution as a step forward to not shove it off | 20:16 |
| jaypipes | sdague: hmm.... not sure I agree with that. that particularly large community user isn't, IMHO, all that interested in "coming forward". | 20:16 |
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| zaneb | sdague: actually I'm pretty sure a lot of that stuff is on GitHub, it's just that nobody cares | 20:16 |
| jeblair | mordred: yes | 20:16 |
| flaper87 | there are things we ought to guarantee before we welcome a project written in a "foreign language" (had to, sorry :P) | 20:16 |
| lifeless | [6~ | 20:16 |
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| flaper87 | and those things we don't check on current projects because we already have them | 20:16 |
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| ttx | it's also OK if things are developed OUTSIDE OPENSTACK and we consume them | 20:17 |
| sdague | jaypipes: maybe, I've heard different things. I think we've set a cultural non acceptance of it | 20:17 |
| annegentle | I think that the common resources come with a cost. | 20:17 |
| jroll | sdague: I'm curious if we tried to welcome those folks, and then asked them to do all the CI/packaging/etc work like we did with JS, how massively frustrated they would get and if they would end up finishing. | 20:17 |
| lifeless | ttx: it is ok, but why did we do BigTent ? | 20:17 |
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| jroll | sdague: because it's a massive amount of work | 20:17 |
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| annegentle | and I think that looking into enabling and encouraging an ecosystem is a natural next step | 20:17 |
| jaypipes | jroll: ++ | 20:17 |
| annegentle | we can't expand beyond our means | 20:17 |
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| sdague | jroll: I don't know | 20:17 |
| ttx | lifeless: to allow more services to be developed in the OpenStack community with the OpenStack way | 20:18 |
| mordred | jroll: well, I tihnk that's just the thing | 20:18 |
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| jroll | that's not to say we *shouldn't* welcome that; I think we should. just something to think about | 20:18 |
| ttx | not to push every triangle in a square shape | 20:18 |
| annegentle | jroll: yep, that's part of the issue, it's overwhelming. | 20:18 |
| mordred | jroll: I'd like to be able to have a conversatoin with them about the work it'll take | 20:18 |
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| flaper87 | ah and just to echo what I (and thierry) said in the review, I don't think being cautious is anti-big-tent | 20:18 |
| mordred | jroll: so that they can be involved in making the judgement about whether it's too much | 20:18 |
| mordred | RATHER than having them just think I hate them | 20:18 |
| annegentle | mordred: but, what is the motivation? Growth? Power? (I'm really wondering) | 20:18 |
| lifeless | ttx: so, I don't understand why e.g. Java wouldn't be OpenStack way | 20:18 |
| mordred | which is not the case | 20:18 |
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| jroll | overwhelming is an understatement, I think. I guess it depends on number of people hacking on it :) | 20:19 |
| ttx | lifeless: I don't say it is, I don't say it's not. I just say we need to consider it | 20:19 |
| lifeless | ttx: another point is that languages creating silos | 20:19 |
| ttx | and discuss it | 20:19 |
| lifeless | every service is a silo | 20:19 |
| mordred | annegentle: the motivation for them to be included? or for wanting them in? | 20:19 |
| annegentle | Expansion can happen in a more layered manner. | 20:19 |
| jroll | mordred: +1, like I said, we should totally be inviting | 20:19 |
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| lifeless | every new split out review team is a silo | 20:19 |
| ttx | lifeless: not everyone is a language polyglot like you | 20:19 |
| dtroyer | lifeless: big tent is creating silos already | 20:19 |
| annegentle | mordred: I want them in, but I think that boundaries and expectations setting are also useful devices for community inclusion. | 20:19 |
| lifeless | ttx: its not about that - I'm not disputing that there is a silo effect from language | 20:19 |
| ttx | lifeless: yes, and taht's why we should not add insult to injury | 20:19 |
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| mordred | annegentle: TOTALLY | 20:19 |
| zaneb | lifeless: because you can't use Oslo. you can't use keystone middleware. you can't use the packaging/requirements system that you're creating atm. So you're reinventing all of that. How does OpenStack benefit by doing that stuff again? | 20:20 |
| ttx | and create even more silos than we already have | 20:20 |
| lifeless | ttx: I'm saying that we *explicitly* set up a structure - years ago now - with separate teams -> conways law -> silos | 20:20 |
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| edleafe | zaneb: good points | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | zaneb: ++ | 20:20 |
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| jroll | zaneb: indeed. | 20:20 |
| mordred | zaneb: ++ | 20:20 |
| lifeless | zaneb: those are good engineering points | 20:20 |
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| zaneb | lifeless: or, more to the point, how can you say we should accept that without even talking about the cost/benefit tradeoff | 20:20 |
| lifeless | zaneb: and I have no problem with that being called out | 20:20 |
| flaper87 | zaneb: exactly the things I'd like to see clarified as part of the "welcoming other languages" | 20:20 |
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| jroll | with the big tent, openstack is really just becoming an umbrella of infrastructure and community, more than a group of projects | 20:21 |
| annegentle | so, if we offer certain shared resources for <well-defined-projects> those are an ecosystem | 20:21 |
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| flaper87 | we don't check those things with python projects because we know they are there | 20:21 |
| lifeless | zaneb: I haven't rejected a cost benefit model - I've said its very very hard to get it right | 20:21 |
| annegentle | and then we enable additional expansions in meaningful ways | 20:21 |
| ttx | lifeless: a cost benefit model is all I'm proposing here | 20:21 |
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| annegentle | ways that people would actually _want_ and not shy away from. | 20:21 |
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| jroll | and I'd love to grow that umbrella, but it's a ton of work to get to the same point. we spent 5 years getting to this point with python and infra/CI/packaging is still hard. | 20:21 |
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| flaper87 | jroll: yup | 20:22 |
| mordred | jroll: yah | 20:22 |
| zaneb | lifeless: yeah, all ttx's resolution says is that the TC will look into it and decide case-by-case | 20:22 |
| lifeless | jroll: OTOH the designs and patterns are well established, so its not the same exploration-as-we-go for anyone following | 20:22 |
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| ttx | rather than "nobody knows if it's even ok to suggest a language" | 20:22 |
| dims | ttx: flaper87: so we need a checklist of things these new projects need to sign up for? (infra/CI/packaging) | 20:22 |
| sdague | so, the current model also makes this assumption that instead of fixing key complexity issues at a protocol model, like in keystone, we just "fix it in middleware" and put it in everyone's paste pipelines | 20:22 |
| jroll | lifeless: I'd like to think that, but look at the JS work | 20:22 |
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| jaypipes | jroll: yes, and deliberately so. and it was deliberately called out in big tent discussions that teams joining OpenStack would be responsible for contributing to cross-project teams like docs, infra, etc. and that those teams wouldn't be "doing the work for you". | 20:22 |
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| flaper87 | dims: I guess we'll have to have it for everyone | 20:22 |
| ttx | dims: the trick is, they don't sign up for anything | 20:22 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: right | 20:22 |
| sdague | which actually does make openstack a python only cloud | 20:22 |
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| ttx | or they say they do and then they don't | 20:23 |
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| lifeless | so if the proposal stopped at 'costs of supporting it.' | 20:23 |
| lifeless | I'd be +0 | 20:23 |
| lifeless | like- I think there's a bunch of tuning on the cost model | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | sdague: whether we can fix that or not is not under discussion. The thing is, we *have* that problem now | 20:23 |
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| flaper87 | and that problem affects new projects | 20:23 |
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| lifeless | also the editorialism about silos I worry about | 20:24 |
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| ttx | lifeless: ok, we are making progress :) | 20:24 |
| annegentle | sdague: the services, yes, but does that matter to consumers? | 20:24 |
| lifeless | because it just seems odd given our deliberate 'please silo everything' team design | 20:24 |
| lifeless | like | 20:24 |
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| lifeless | if we *were one team* with sub-specialities | 20:24 |
| lifeless | e.g. review access applies everywhere | 20:24 |
| sdague | annegentle: that assumes the only people that ever will have a good idea to go in the "open cloud" will do in python | 20:24 |
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| ttx | lifeless: you disagree with the idea of "refraining from adding a language purely for convenience" when it doesn't bring anythign technically to the table | 20:25 |
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| annegentle | lifeless: you're onto something there... I was wanting to make counts of subteam members. I mean, it's impossible to collaborate with 100 people so we tend to collaborate in teams of less than 10 I think. | 20:25 |
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| annegentle | (and yes, my observation has nothing to do with languages but about ecosystems) | 20:25 |
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| lifeless | annegentle: yah, its my 'conways law is our enemy today' drum. I beat it at least once a cycle :) | 20:25 |
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| jeblair | ttx: a technical issue -- can a regular motion (passed by a majority) place a requirement that some future motion have a 2/3 majority? or does such a motion need to be a change to the charter? or does it need to require that it recieves 2/3 itself? | 20:26 |
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| lifeless | ttx: I disagree with what I feel are pre-judged conclusions in the proposal | 20:26 |
| jaypipes | I think I'd be OK with saying something like "if your project uses some non-Python language for a particular reason, you need to first add support to the infrastructure, build, and docs systems for that language before the TC will consider your project to be OpenStack" | 20:26 |
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| lifeless | jaypipes: yes | 20:26 |
| lifeless | jaypipes: +1 | 20:26 |
| flaper87 | Can we agree that this spec needs to be reworded in some areas a bit but it's a good step forward? | 20:26 |
| sdague | jaypipes: yes, I'm completely on board with that | 20:26 |
| mordred | jaypipes: ++ | 20:26 |
| jroll | jaypipes: ++ | 20:26 |
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| lifeless | *that* is objective, welcoming | 20:26 |
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| ttx | jeblair: yes, you may be right. We could come back to majority vote | 20:26 |
| jgriffith | jaypipes: +1 | 20:26 |
| jroll | seems reasonable to me | 20:26 |
| * mordred hands jaypipes a unicorn | 20:27 | |
| dims | "you need to first add support to the" -> "we will work with you to add support" | 20:27 |
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| edleafe | jaypipes: ++ | 20:27 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: agreed. so conversely it's also okay for a project to _not_ join OpenStack on purpose? | 20:27 |
| * flaper87 hands jaypipes a unicorn FAMILY | 20:27 | |
| ttx | jeblair: I kind of wanted something that the next TC wouldn't easily reverse.. i.e. an added language should not be suddenly "removed" | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | that puts the onus back on the submitter, where it belongs (as intended by the big tent discussions) | 20:27 |
| sdague | and I think that's the kind of resolution I'd be fine with. "Here is table stakes to bringing in new language" | 20:27 |
| markmcclain | jaypipes: ++ | 20:27 |
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| ttx | I guess there are other mechanisms to do that | 20:27 |
| jroll | dims: +1, I like that | 20:27 |
| lifeless | annegentle: I think thats a given :) | 20:27 |
| sdague | jaypipes: ++ | 20:27 |
| jaypipes | annegentle: yes, absolutely. | 20:27 |
| jroll | dims: and I think that's been proven with the JS work, as well, infra has put a ton of help into that | 20:27 |
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| lifeless | ttx: the point of the next tc is to be allowed to do that :) | 20:27 |
| dims | jroll: cool! | 20:27 |
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| ttx | lifeless: but yeah, the 2/3 doesn't really help either way | 20:28 |
| fungi | from an infrastructure support perspective i do think that arbitrarily accepting projects with the expectation they'll do the legwork themselves is likely to lead to some unpleasant experiences. we can often take the 5-10 minutes needed to show new devs from another python project where to find sufficient information to figure out how to start getting things done. for a new language, we have just | 20:28 |
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| fungi | enough time to make them feel like we're telling them to shove off | 20:28 |
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| ttx | jaypipes: sounds like a good way to solve the cost/benefit analysis | 20:28 |
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| flaper87 | fungi: for me it'd be more like: Get it done and we'll talk after that | 20:28 |
| ttx | but also a good way to tell people to shove it | 20:28 |
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| sdague | fungi: well, put a warning in about the fact that this might take significant effort | 20:29 |
| ttx | (to use sdague's analogy) | 20:29 |
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| lifeless | well | 20:29 |
| lifeless | so there are really a couple of cost groups | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | sdague: we welcome all. but we're not some cult that demands everyone join us. if you don't want to be in OpenStack, that's totally cool, too. (just don't call yourself OpenStack, of course!). But OpenStack is about "are you one of us?" Which is all about do you want to serve the good of the OpenStack community, do you want to play by the same rules, do you want to use the same cmomunication processes, etc. If you d | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | on't, totally awesome. you're just not OpenStack. | 20:29 |
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| lifeless | there's the bootstrap-and-operational costs | 20:29 |
| ttx | We are approaching timebox limit | 20:29 |
| fungi | flaper87: yep, where "get it done" starts with telling them to try setting up a copy of all our infrastructure, and probably learning one or two new programming languages | 20:29 |
| lifeless | infra | 20:29 |
| lifeless | and there's the culture/community costs | 20:29 |
| jaypipes | sdague: doh, sorry, the above was answer to annegentle | 20:29 |
| ttx | I'll read the log again and try to come up with something better | 20:29 |
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| lifeless | The first is really clear and I think having a resolution around it is sane. | 20:29 |
| zaneb | ttx: fwiw the 2/3 made me uncomfortable for reasons I'd struggle to explain | 20:29 |
| lifeless | The second, nope. | 20:29 |
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| sdague | jaypipes: yeh, because I think I'm 100% on board with your new approach | 20:30 |
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| jeblair | lifeless: i do think there are culture/community costs; i do not think they are strictly prohibitive | 20:30 |
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| ttx | Thanks for the discussion, I think I understand the objections slightly better. I hope you understand the intent of this a bit better too. Please comment on the review. | 20:30 |
| lifeless | jeblair: agreed | 20:30 |
| sdague | zaneb: I would agree. It seems like a whole new bylaw bit that's being patched in at the same time as a content bit | 20:30 |
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| dhellmann | jaypipes: I'm inspired to propose that all existing projects must have active liaisons in the cross-project teams to stay "official" | 20:30 |
| ttx | sdague: agreed | 20:30 |
| annegentle | it reads awfully governance heavy | 20:30 |
| jeblair | ttx: thank you :) | 20:30 |
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| dims | dhellmann: ++ | 20:31 |
| zaneb | ttx: like, consensus is good, but when you put a number on it it reads like a challenge to try to screw over the minority ;) | 20:31 |
| annegentle | ttx: but I do get the small reviewable idea | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:31 |
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| ttx | sdague: as I told jeblair, was trying to make such decisions "more sticky" but it's not the right way to do it | 20:31 |
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| lifeless | jeblair: [I just don't think that we can put them up as clearly as we can the bootstap/operational ones, certainly not in a balanced way today] | 20:31 |
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| ttx | cpallares: around? | 20:31 |
| sdague | yeh, because the reason things are sticky is because we agree on them, not for procedural tricks. | 20:31 |
| cpallares | ttx: Yes | 20:31 |
| Rockyg | dhellmann, ++! | 20:31 |
| lifeless | ttx: better question: why is that (stickyiness) valuable | 20:31 |
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| jaypipes | dhellmann: +10 | 20:31 |
| ttx | ok, moving on. Feel free to comment on review or discuss it with me anytime | 20:32 |
| ttx | #topic Comments on applicability of Django CoC to OpenStack (cpallares) | 20:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Comments on applicability of Django CoC to OpenStack (cpallares) (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:32 | |
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| ttx | #link https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/ | 20:32 |
| ttx | So, we ALL read it I believe | 20:32 |
| annegentle | twice! | 20:32 |
| ttx | Personally I think it's sane for the community code of conduct. | 20:32 |
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| ttx | I like the idea of a clear committee to handle violations and clear reporting guidelines | 20:32 |
| mordred | ++ | 20:32 |
| sdague | ++ | 20:32 |
| jgriffith | ++ | 20:32 |
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| flaper87 | ++ | 20:32 |
| ttx | One thing that is missing in the Django CoC is corporate bullying -- leveraging money or influence that big companies have to push someone in the community to do something they naturally wouldn't | 20:32 |
| ttx | I guess it's tricky to include since it's no longer "an individual" but "several execs at a company" misbehaving. | 20:33 |
| annegentle | I don't like the reporting by anonymous email. | 20:33 |
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| cpallares | annegentle: Why is that? | 20:33 |
| Rockyg | ttx: not just execs, managers | 20:33 |
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| flaper87 | annegentle: setting up a CoC team might help | 20:33 |
| ttx | So, not sure how to address that -- I'm only mentioning it because we had such cases raised as CoC violations in the past | 20:33 |
| flaper87 | direct email addresses that should be included? | 20:33 |
| annegentle | cpallares: if I really have a violation I will use a phone and a real person | 20:33 |
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| russellb | ttx: do you mean pressuring their own employees? or employees of other companies? | 20:34 |
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| jeblair | also missing are "be collaborative", "when we are unsure, we ask for help", "step down considerately" and "respect the election process" | 20:34 |
| annegentle | also safety of both the accused and victim | 20:34 |
| russellb | just trying to understand the concern clearly | 20:34 |
| ttx | russellb: other companies | 20:34 |
| jgriffith | annegentle: would having a general email and published members of the team work? | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | cpallares: sometimes ppl don't want chats or things that can be copied around | 20:34 |
| russellb | ttx: ack | 20:34 |
| * flaper87 shrugs | 20:34 | |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I think for the django community, the email is used for online stuff more than in-person stuff? | 20:34 |
| annegentle | jgriffith: yeah that's pretty much what we have now | 20:34 |
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| markmcclain | ttx: sure it isn't both? | 20:34 |
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| annegentle | dhellmann: ah ok | 20:34 |
| Rockyg | flaper87, ++ | 20:34 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: so that might apply to us on irc, for example, vs. at a summit | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | At conferences there's a team that you can talk to | 20:35 |
| ttx | markmcclain: well, pressuring your own employees to do your bidding is called employment, I think. | 20:35 |
| flaper87 | and we should have the same | 20:35 |
| jroll | annegentle: for conferences django uses https://2015.djangocon.us/code_of_conduct/ | 20:35 |
| jroll | which includes phones and such | 20:35 |
| russellb | ttx: :) | 20:35 |
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| jgriffith | ttx: hehe +1 | 20:35 |
| cpallares | Yeah, the summit has its own code of conduct | 20:35 |
| annegentle | jroll: ah, thanks | 20:35 |
| dhellmann | annegentle: I do agree, I'd like to be speaking with a human in real time if I had to report something | 20:35 |
| markmcclain | ttx: depending on context possibly | 20:35 |
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| jroll | totally +1 on live contacts for in-person things | 20:35 |
| annegentle | I guess we'd need an audit trail | 20:35 |
| sdague | annegentle: so what you are really looking for is an OpenStack ombudsman, right? | 20:35 |
| markmcclain | ttx: but I also think that is an internal HR issue at that point | 20:35 |
| jaypipes | jeblair: all excellent additions. | 20:35 |
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| russellb | right, i don't think the foundation / project has any business dealing with issues between employee vs employer | 20:36 |
| ttx | markmcclain: sure, I understand your point, was just making a joke. The question of the different hats is slightly less obvious I think | 20:36 |
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| annegentle | basically the details in https://www.djangoproject.com/conduct/reporting/ are sufficient to me | 20:36 |
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| annegentle | addresses confidentiality concerns | 20:36 |
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| jgriffith | russellb: yeah, that's seems a bit... umm... well; let's move on ;) | 20:36 |
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| dhellmann | ttx, cpallares : is the proposal to replace our coc with this one, or to augment ours? | 20:36 |
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| cpallares | dhellmann: I would prefer to replace it. | 20:37 |
| mordred | russellb: no - but I do think they have businss in dealing with issues between a human and a company that person does _not _ work for | 20:37 |
| ttx | dhellmann: cpallares is working on the board committee setting to replace the current CoCs | 20:37 |
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| annegentle | russellb: it's difficult when the person isn't employed though. | 20:37 |
| cpallares | dhellmann: and give it its own place within OpenStack | 20:37 |
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| russellb | mordred: agree | 20:37 |
| annegentle | russellb: the Foundation is the only help we would have | 20:37 |
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| * jgriffith is rather confused now | 20:37 | |
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| dims | cpallares: have folks looked at the ASF one too? http://www.apache.org/foundation/policies/conduct.html | 20:37 |
| dhellmann | cpallares: ok, jeblair pointed out several missing sections that we have now that would be missing if we replace it | 20:37 |
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| russellb | annegentle: totally agree | 20:38 |
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| flaper87 | I think we should merge them, not do a 1:1 replacement | 20:38 |
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| flaper87 | at least, that's how I read it | 20:38 |
| ttx | flaper87: ack | 20:38 |
| * flaper87 didn't attend last week's meeting but read the logs | 20:38 | |
| cpallares | dhellmann: Good point | 20:38 |
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| jgriffith | my only suggestion about "merging" is to be careful you don't end up with a novel | 20:38 |
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| ttx | cpallares: I think the next step is to collect that feedback and come up with a practical proposal | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | flaper87: yeah, I think I misunderstood what I was supposed to do, and I noticed that we're missing 2 sections from the django one (be welcoming, and be careful in the words you choose) | 20:39 |
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| * jaypipes is all fine with these Django CoC points, except for the "Be friendly and patient" one. I can guarantee no such thing 100% of the time | 20:39 | |
| flaper87 | jgriffith: yup, I trust cpallares on that! | 20:39 |
| dhellmann | I do like the fact that they have a more detailed reporting guide to augment the actual policy | 20:39 |
| annegentle | jaypipes: ha! | 20:39 |
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| jaypipes | annegentle: :P | 20:39 |
| ttx | jaypipes: you've been improving on that. | 20:39 |
| annegentle | I think the detailed processes are great and we should layer ours similarly | 20:39 |
| mordred | jaypipes: right? on the other hand - even when you're neither - you usually are still _striving_ to be | 20:39 |
| fungi | friendliness and patience are rather subjective concepts | 20:39 |
| jaypipes | ttx: barely ;) | 20:39 |
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| mordred | jaypipes: so maybe "Strive to be friendly and patient"? | 20:40 |
| ttx | We need to move on | 20:40 |
| russellb | definitely a variety of interpretations of what "friendly" means around openstack (and everywhere) | 20:40 |
| ttx | cpallares: any question you have ? | 20:40 |
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| jgriffith | jaypipes: are you telling me there's no room in all of Del Boca Vista!!! | 20:40 |
| * mordred friendlies russellb upside the head | 20:40 | |
| ttx | I suspect TC members can reach out to you directly if they have further feedback | 20:40 |
| annegentle | cpallares: feel free to ask me for help on the layering | 20:40 |
| dims | mordred: lol | 20:40 |
| cpallares | annegentle: I will thanks | 20:40 |
| * flaper87 wants to be friendlied | 20:40 | |
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| ttx | Alright, moving on, busy agenda | 20:40 |
| annegentle | flaper87: oh dear | 20:40 |
| * mordred has a special llama waiting for flaper87 | 20:40 | |
| ttx | #topic OpenStack Community App Catalog application to join the Big Tent | 20:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Community App Catalog application to join the Big Tent (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:40 | |
| russellb | flaper87: tmi | 20:40 |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/217957 | 20:40 |
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| ttx | I think this is an easy one, it's clearly a community project now | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | mordred: LOL | 20:41 |
| ttx | and the deliverable (apps.openstack.org) is already an openstack official thing anyway | 20:41 |
| ttx | My only question would be whether Chris will be able to continue working on it now that he moved to IBM, since this effort relies a lot on him | 20:41 |
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| ttx | I guess we can ask mordred the question | 20:41 |
| jaypipes | jgriffith: :) | 20:41 |
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| * docaedo waves too | 20:41 | |
| mordred | yes. | 20:41 |
| ttx | cool, then it's just missing a couple +2s | 20:41 |
| ttx | unless someone has further questions | 20:42 |
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| * russellb added +1 | 20:42 | |
| ttx | flapping rob | 20:42 |
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| russellb | has 9 now | 20:42 |
| ttx | Alright will approve asap | 20:42 |
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| ttx | no question ? | 20:42 |
| * Rockyg wonders whether mordred answered the question of being willing to be asked or whether chris was available | 20:42 | |
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| russellb | "yes" | 20:43 |
| jeblair | :) | 20:43 |
| ttx | #topic Introduce assert:follows-standard-deprecation tag | 20:43 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/207467 | 20:43 |
| sdague | ttx: so, I just added a comment there | 20:43 |
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| ttx | sdague: 207467? | 20:43 |
| sdague | which projects do we think follow 2 cycle deprecation for config options ? | 20:43 |
| sdague | yeh | 20:43 |
| sdague | because, in my experience, it's 0 of them | 20:43 |
| sdague | except some oslo libs | 20:44 |
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| dims | :) | 20:44 |
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| ttx | sdague: are you suggesting we say "minimum 1 cycle deprecation for config options" ? | 20:44 |
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| * dhellmann high-fives dims | 20:44 | |
| mordred | Rockyg: :) | 20:44 |
| sdague | I'm suggesting that's what's out there | 20:44 |
| annegentle | sdague: I dont't think it was 2 cycle for options but for API resources | 20:44 |
| sdague | and has been the norm for a while | 20:44 |
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| ttx | (original proposal was 1 cycle but everyone said it should be 2) | 20:44 |
| sdague | annegentle: I asked the question in the review for clarification, and was told it applies to config options | 20:44 |
| flaper87 | fwiw, Zaqar does | 20:44 |
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| zaneb | ttx: I think for config options specifically, 1 is all we need | 20:45 |
| annegentle | sdague: yeah | 20:45 |
| ttx | sdague: I'm fine rewording it so that config options have a one-cycle | 20:45 |
| zaneb | ttx: in general, 2 | 20:45 |
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| ttx | if that works for everyone | 20:45 |
| ttx | sdague: the goal is to match what's out there | 20:45 |
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| * flaper87 is good with that | 20:45 | |
| dhellmann | would that apply to libs, too, or do we count them as special for some reason? because I thought 2 was the rule already. | 20:45 |
| sdague | flaper87: really, all of them? You want me to go sifting git logs. Because I found it was hard enough to keep people in nova from doing straight deletes | 20:45 |
| ttx | not to invent a top-down edict :) | 20:45 |
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| sdague | ttx: yeh, that's why I've been a pita on this review | 20:45 |
| ttx | dhellmann: it's a minimum. Not a == | 20:45 |
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| annegentle | sdague: ttx: I think it was about being able to first: put a note in the logs from the service, in one release, and then second: actually remove it | 20:46 |
| annegentle | doesn't that take 2 cycles? | 20:46 |
| sdague | because, I've seen a lot of what happens in a lot of projects | 20:46 |
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| ttx | sdague: not a pita, just late :P | 20:46 |
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| annegentle | the communication cycle then the removal cycle? | 20:46 |
| gordc | sdague: just to clarify, if there's an option to deprecate something, is the option itself expected to be deprecated a cycle after the actual deprecated feature is removed? | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | sdague: I've a very bad memory but Zaqar is small enough that it makes it easier to have a better look on what's happening | 20:46 |
| sdague | ttx: well, I asked the question pointedly last week | 20:46 |
| annegentle | or am I just off? | 20:46 |
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| dhellmann | annegentle: that's how I count, too | 20:46 |
| dims | annegentle: agree | 20:46 |
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| sdague | annegentle: so typically projects just get their deprecations in by L3, and delete early in M cycle | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | maybe we aren't all starting from the same understanding? | 20:47 |
| zaneb | annegentle: that's only deprecated for one release by my count | 20:47 |
| ttx | thing marked deprecated during the L cycle, can't be removed before start of N cycle | 20:47 |
| ttx | that's what currently is in the proposal | 20:47 |
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| annegentle | ttx: ok that's what I want and will vote yes to :) | 20:47 |
| ttx | i.e. it's marked deprecated for 2 "releases" | 20:47 |
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| zaneb | supported->deprecated->removed would be 1 cycle | 20:47 |
| ttx | before being removed on the third | 20:47 |
| sdague | ttx: right, and what I'm saying is that it would be good to actually go survey some projects before writing this one down | 20:47 |
| annegentle | zaneb: it's the "marked deprecated" part. It could be reversed if enough reaction happened. | 20:47 |
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| zaneb | supported->deprecated->deprecated->removed would be 2 cycles | 20:48 |
| ttx | sdague: that's fair. Could you re -1 it and ask me to do my homework first? | 20:48 |
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| ttx | no point in hurrying this | 20:48 |
| sdague | so I -1ed with the comment that I think this applies to 0 projects right now | 20:48 |
| sdague | I can add more -1 details | 20:48 |
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| ttx | sdague: oh, I read it now. Should be enough | 20:49 |
| dhellmann | if we're happy with 1 cycle, do we need to do more research? | 20:49 |
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| sdague | I do think encoding sanity and what we do is a good thing, I just don't want to have the TC declare a thing, and it not actually be a thing anyone is doing, and demonstrate a disconnect from the projects | 20:49 |
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| ttx | dhellmann: need to see if we need to differentiate between config options and "features" | 20:49 |
| annegentle | sdague: yep yep | 20:49 |
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| zaneb | sdague: ++ | 20:50 |
| sdague | which means we are going to need a definition of "feature" | 20:50 |
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| sdague | which ... is going to be a thing | 20:50 |
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| ttx | The trick is, this was never written, and there was a lot of oral tradition around "how we deprecate things in the integrated release" | 20:50 |
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| sdague | yes, for sure | 20:50 |
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| ttx | anyway, moving on | 20:50 |
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| ttx | #topic Adds & apply guidelines for project and service names | 20:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds & apply guidelines for project and service names (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:51 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201160 | 20:51 |
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| ttx | This one (definition) looks ready to me, still missing one or two approvals | 20:51 |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/201670 | 20:51 |
| annegentle | getting ready! :) | 20:51 |
| ttx | This one (application) will need a rebase | 20:51 |
| annegentle | ok, got it | 20:51 |
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| ttx | probably safer to wait for the first one to be approved | 20:51 |
| annegentle | ok | 20:52 |
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| ttx | ok, it has 7 votes now, I'll approve the first one asap | 20:52 |
| lifeless | \o/ | 20:52 |
| flaper87 | w000h000 | 20:52 |
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| ttx | annegentle: nice persistent work on that Anne | 20:52 |
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| annegentle | whew | 20:52 |
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| ttx | #topic Workgroup reports | 20:53 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Workgroup reports (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:53 | |
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| ttx | * Project team guide | 20:53 |
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| ttx | Project team guide is now up at http://docs.openstack.org/project-team-guide/ | 20:53 |
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| flaper87 | YEAH! | 20:53 |
| ttx | So we don't really need the workgroup anymore, we'll include incremental fixes now | 20:53 |
| annegentle | yeah! | 20:53 |
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| ttx | * Comms | 20:53 |
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| ttx | annegentle, flaper87: o/ | 20:53 |
| annegentle | guess it's a week for a post! | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | o/ | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: ++ | 20:54 |
| annegentle | I volunteer flaper87 to write it :) | 20:54 |
| ttx | It is. We have app catalog, project team guide | 20:54 |
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| * flaper87 accepts | 20:54 | |
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| flaper87 | wait, what? | 20:54 |
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| flaper87 | :P | 20:54 |
| ttx | (today) + the slack from past weeks | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | I was going to raise my hand this week, really! :D | 20:54 |
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| annegentle | yeah! | 20:54 |
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| ttx | * Cross-project track at Mitaka summit | 20:54 |
| annegentle | thanks flaper87 :) I'll edit with ya | 20:54 |
| ttx | Who is interested in driving that ? I know thingee wants to participate, I can volunteer too... | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | ttx; sign me up again | 20:54 |
| ttx | Anyone else interested in crafting an awesome cross-project track for Tokyo ? | 20:54 |
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| sdague | sure, I'd like to help | 20:55 |
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| sdague | I would also suggest that we do this one a little more top down this year though | 20:55 |
| mordred | I'd love to participate as well | 20:55 |
| ttx | it means being available in October to finalize it | 20:55 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: please please | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | I've already started some notes in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-cross-project-session-planning | 20:55 |
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| flaper87 | :D | 20:55 |
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| * flaper87 interested in help with the CP track | 20:55 | |
| sdague | and have TC folks declare what they think some of the top things we need to solve are | 20:55 |
| ttx | #info ttx thingee dhellmann sdague mordred available for cross-project track workgroup | 20:55 |
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| ttx | #info +flaper87 | 20:56 |
| flaper87 | ttx: :D | 20:56 |
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| lifeless | ooo | 20:56 |
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| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:56 | |
| lifeless | I had stuff I was going to inject, and now my brain has paged them all out. nuts | 20:56 |
| Rockyg | uh, me too? From the prodwg perspective? | 20:56 |
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| lifeless | ttx: I'm interested too | 20:57 |
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| ttx | #info +Rockyg lifeless | 20:57 |
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| dims | ttx: we should ask this question in next meeting too :) | 20:57 |
| jeblair | fyi stackforge move scheduled for oct 17: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/073071.html | 20:57 |
| ttx | I have a question about whether we should have a TC dinner in Tokyo, and if yes, who will sponsor it | 20:57 |
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| ttx | with mordred's move from HP to IBM I suspect the question is open | 20:57 |
| dhellmann | jeblair: ++ | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | jeblair: glad to know, thanks for the heads up | 20:57 |
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| flaper87 | whic dhellmann summarized, elegantly, with a ++ | 20:57 |
| flaper87 | :P | 20:57 |
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| ttx | mordred: did your dinner budget change jobs as well ? | 20:58 |
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| jeblair | wait, mordred didn't pay for those out of pocket? | 20:58 |
| mordred | I have checked with folks at HP who are still interested in funding the dinner | 20:58 |
| * flaper87 rofl | 20:58 | |
| ttx | or should lifeless pick up the bill | 20:58 |
| mordred | so, let's assume it'll still happen | 20:58 |
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| mordred | and logistics of how it gets planned will be sorted out | 20:58 |
| ttx | it's fine to split the bill too. As long as I don't have to pay for anything, I'll support it | 20:58 |
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| fungi | sounds like mordred's dinner budget got a better offer to stay behind | 20:58 |
| lifeless | ttx: LOL | 20:58 |
| mordred | I've offered to continue doing the legwork to organize | 20:58 |
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| * flaper87 is with ttx | 20:59 | |
| mordred | fungi: :) | 20:59 |
| jeblair | yay! i'm hungry! | 20:59 |
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| lifeless | mordred: sounds like we need to get another P-Card | 20:59 |
| mordred | I'll follow up with folks asap on what we learn | 20:59 |
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| ttx | mordred: Japan has a lot of micro-restaurant (one table) that still have Michelin stars | 20:59 |
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| ttx | anyway, time is out | 21:00 |
| fungi | plop a tablet at each table and teleconference the tc dinner | 21:00 |
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| mordred | fungi: hahahahaha | 21:00 |
| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 21:00:26 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-01-20.01.html | 21:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-01-20.01.txt | 21:00 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2015/tc.2015-09-01-20.01.log.html | 21:00 |
| ttx | dims: you're on | 21:00 |
| dims | ttx: ack | 21:00 |
| dims | #startmeeting crossproject | 21:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue Sep 1 21:00:44 2015 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dims. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'crossproject' | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for david-lyle flaper87 dims dtroyer johnthetubaguy rakhmerov | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for smelikyan morganfainberg adrian_otto bswartz slagle | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for adrian_otto mestery kiall jeblair thinrichs j^2 stevebaker | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for mtreinish Daisy Piet notmyname ttx isviridov gordc SlickNik | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for cloudnull loquacities thingee hyakuhei redrobot dirk TravT | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for vipul lifeless annegentle SergeyLukjanov devananda boris-42 nikhil_k | 21:00 |
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| david-lyle | o/ | 21:00 |
| dims | courtesy ping for barrett and shamail elmiko etoews jaypipes (See Topics in agenda!) | 21:01 |
| stevebaker | \o | 21:01 |
| docaedo | o/ | 21:01 |
| jeblair | dims: i have a thing to say! | 21:01 |
| dims | #link Agenda: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/CrossProjectMeeting | 21:01 |
| EmilienM | o/ | 21:01 |
| notmyname | here | 21:01 |
| Piet | Here! | 21:01 |
| dims | jeblair: go ahead | 21:01 |
| j^2 | Hi! | 21:01 |
| philipw | Here | 21:01 |
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| vipul | o/ | 21:01 |
| lifeless | o/ | 21:01 |
| jeblair | #link stackforge move scheduled for october 17: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2015-August/073071.html | 21:01 |
| edleafe | o/ | 21:01 |
| jroll | \o | 21:01 |
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| barrett1 | o? | 21:01 |
| jeblair | just wanted to get the message out there ^ | 21:01 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 21:01 |
| barrett1 | o/ | 21:01 |
| dims | thanks jeblair for the announcement | 21:01 |
| Rockyg | o/ | 21:01 |
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| elmiko | o/ | 21:02 |
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| dims | #topic review past actions | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "review past actions (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:02 | |
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| dims | we had a couple of things left over | 21:02 |
| Rockyg | jeblair, ++ | 21:02 |
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| dims | #info Meeting Chairs still needed for October 13 | 21:02 |
| dims | #info ttx to create a summit session about crossproject discussion & meetings | 21:02 |
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| dims | Anyone up for Oct 13? | 21:02 |
| ttx | I'll push that when we start working on it | 21:02 |
| dims | thanks ttx | 21:02 |
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| dims | going once | 21:02 |
| ttx | so no point in tracking that week after week :) | 21:02 |
| EmilienM | dims: I can | 21:02 |
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| gordc | o/ | 21:02 |
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| dims | EmilienM: nice thanks | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | no gordc !! | 21:03 |
| dims | ttx ack, will stop tracking that | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | :P | 21:03 |
| dims | #topic Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) | 21:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Team announcements (horizontal, vertical, diagonal) (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:03 | |
| ttx | On the release management front... | 21:03 |
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| ttx | We are on liberty-3 week, where we'll tag .0b3 versions for cycle-with-milestones projects | 21:03 |
| EmilienM | gordc: you can do it this time, please I think I'm traveling | 21:03 |
| gordc | EmilienM: naw you can have it. | 21:03 |
| ttx | For those projects that marks the start of a feature-frozen period while they work toward their first release candidate | 21:03 |
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| gordc | i was actually just raising hand for meeting | 21:03 |
| * gordc reads backlog | 21:03 | |
| ttx | When the flow of bugfixes starts to slow down we can create the release branch (stable/liberty) and unfreeze master | 21:03 |
| ttx | That usually takes a couple of weeks | 21:03 |
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| ttx | This week we'll also tag the last "liberty" versions for libraries, so that we can cut stable branches there early next week | 21:04 |
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| ttx | So if you have, say, python-${PROJECT}client updates or features that need to go in liberty, you probably want to get them released ASAP | 21:04 |
| dims | ttx, i need to merge g-r updates for some oslo libs | 21:04 |
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| ttx | We'll soft-freeze requirements starting end of week, and until all release branches are cut | 21:04 |
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| ttx | (we branch openstack/requirements last) | 21:04 |
| ttx | Questions on that ? | 21:04 |
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| jroll | ironic (finally) made a 4.0.0 release this past week, we're fast following with a 4.1.0 to clear up some issues and will have an announcement then. 4.2.0 will be stable/liberty. planning on more frequent releases in M :) | 21:05 |
| nikhil_k | TravT: ^ | 21:05 |
| nikhil_k | (about py-glanceclient) | 21:05 |
| fungi | with clarkb's cross-test jobs for master requirements in place, we should presumably continue as usual approving constraints updates correct? | 21:05 |
| dims | thanks jroll | 21:05 |
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| TravT | nikhil_k, thx | 21:05 |
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| fungi | just not approving updates to global-requirements.txt | 21:05 |
| EmilienM | puppet team have midcycle starting tomorrow | 21:05 |
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| ttx | fungi: we should apply extra care. That's why I said softfreeze | 21:05 |
| fungi | got it | 21:05 |
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| EmilienM | #link puppet openstack midcycle: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/puppet-liberty-mid-cycle | 21:05 |
| ttx | fungi: adding new deps still puts pressure on downstream packagers | 21:06 |
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| lifeless | dims: but not caps | 21:06 |
| ttx | so we want to slow down progressively there too | 21:06 |
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| dims | lifeless: ack | 21:06 |
| lifeless | ttx: dims: dhellmann: just to make sure we're on the same page: we're not capping liberty | 21:06 |
| ttx | lifeless: right | 21:06 |
| dims | lifeless: we use the upper-constraints, ack | 21:06 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: ++ | 21:06 |
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| lifeless | we'll use constraints to hold devstack and unit tests in line. cool | 21:06 |
| EmilienM | ok it's not a midcycle, it's a sprint :-) | 21:06 |
| ttx | I think dims just wants the requirements to propagate | 21:06 |
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| dhellmann | right, we should make sure all of our mins are up to date | 21:07 |
| dims | ttx: yes | 21:07 |
| fungi | and allow upper-constraints to continue getting updated, on the assumption that testing should catch serious issues with them | 21:07 |
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| dhellmann | lifeless: how far away are we from having constraints for unit test jobs? | 21:07 |
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| ttx | lifeless: I like how the netaddr issue last week perfectly illustrates the need to cover unit tests with constraints as well. | 21:07 |
| lifeless | dhellmann: the nova patches are just waiting +2A | 21:07 |
| lifeless | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/207262/ | 21:07 |
| lifeless | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205931/ | 21:08 |
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| dhellmann | is that the first project to use them? | 21:08 |
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| fungi | also there was some interest expressed in the netaddr thread for neutron being a guinea pig on this | 21:08 |
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| dims | fungi: looks easy for someone to duplicate those 2 reviews for neutron | 21:09 |
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| lifeless | fungi: sure, I'm positive we can adda patch for neutron in just a few minutes | 21:09 |
| fungi | (though it's still not going to help grenade issues where a new dep release blows up kilo) | 21:09 |
| dims | right | 21:10 |
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| lifeless | fungi: it will help | 21:10 |
| lifeless | fungi: less places to stop the fire | 21:10 |
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| lifeless | fungi: it won't eliminate | 21:10 |
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| dims | #action dims to ping some nova cores about https://review.openstack.org/#/c/205931/ | 21:10 |
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| dims | any other announcements? | 21:11 |
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| dims | going once | 21:11 |
| dims | switching | 21:11 |
| lifeless | we're going to want a version of that patch in all tres | 21:11 |
| dims | #topic Product Work Group: User Stories Update/Checkpoint | 21:11 |
| dims | This topic was raised by barrett and shamail | 21:11 |
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| lifeless | in lberty | 21:11 |
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| dims | barrett1: Shamail: ping | 21:11 |
| dims | lifeless: ack | 21:11 |
| barrett1 | Hi Carol Barrett | 21:11 |
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| Shamail | hi | 21:11 |
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| barrett1 | Thanks for the time on the agenda | 21:12 |
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| dims | very welcome, floor is yours | 21:12 |
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| barrett1 | We wanted to give you an update on the user story work from the team | 21:12 |
| barrett1 | You can find our repo here: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories | 21:12 |
| dims | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories | 21:12 |
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| barrett1 | You may find the generated specs page for easier consumption of user stories going forward; Click on any title in the Draft Section. This page will be updated further to contain more information/data over time. | 21:13 |
| Shamail | dims: thanks | 21:13 |
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| barrett1 | We had a long list of stories and reviewed them to consolidate like-kind and then prioritize | 21:13 |
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| barrett1 | Here's the list of current user stories, prioritized: | 21:14 |
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| barrett1 | Rolling Upgrades: Building upon the work done in Kilo & Liberty | 21:14 |
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| barrett1 | Headroom & Capacity Management (including quotas): Focus on the management of capacity so that resource exhaustion is minimized. | 21:14 |
| barrett1 | Life Cycle Managment (DB, VM, Storage): The usage examples in this user story focus on the creation, management and clean-up (ex. VM becomes orphaned, storage created but never attached, etc) | 21:15 |
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| barrett1 | On Boarding Legacy Applications: Support for basic on-boarding of legacy apps. We expect many of these capabilities to benefit cloud apps too. | 21:15 |
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| Shamail | It is probably also worth mentioning that the Product WG is working on a method to priori | 21:15 |
| barrett1 | OpenStack Service Separation: Enable OpenStack services to use different libary versions, while running simultaneously | 21:15 |
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| barrett1 | OpenStack simplifiled API: Address the by product of shift from Nova Networking to Neutron of a number of simple use cases require the user to issue a relatively large number of API calls to Nova, Neutron, and possibly other services. | 21:15 |
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| barrett1 | Role Based Access: Hierarchical permissions to support Enterprise IT requirements. | 21:16 |
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| barrett1 | Encrypted Storage: Ability for a workload to require encyrpted storage for its execution and boot from encrypted storage too | 21:16 |
| barrett1 | That's the end of the list | 21:16 |
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| gordc | barrett1: are these tagged by projects they affect? | 21:16 |
| dims | barrett1: i was half expecting a list of projects for each of those items so we can get feedback from cores/ptl Or are you doing that already (feedback from projects)? | 21:16 |
| dims | gordc: ha, same question :) | 21:17 |
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| barrett1 | gordonc: the next step is gaps analysis which will create this. | 21:17 |
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| gordc | dims: :) | 21:17 |
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| clarkb | service separation is already possible with virtualenvs and other packaging tools, not sure what openstack needs to do | 21:17 |
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| gordc | barrett1: cool cool. yeah it seems most of them affect nova... /me says thanks. | 21:17 |
| kfox1111 | barrett1: I'm working on the nova instance user spec, and it kind of seems like it might fit in the user-stories... | 21:18 |
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| barrett1 | clarkb: thanks will pass this along to the team behind this one. | 21:18 |
| Rockyg | prod wg is putting cpls in place to help get the info needed from projects | 21:18 |
| Shamail | Sorry... What I was trying to say: It is probably also worth mentioning that the Product WG is working on a method to prioritize user stories via gerrit but we wanted to share our prioritized list with the cross project team during the pilot to ensure the user stories that we selected would align with this team for now. | 21:18 |
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| Shamail | This feedback is highly valuable to the team. | 21:18 |
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| Shamail | Thanks. | 21:19 |
| Rockyg | Shamail, ++ | 21:19 |
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| barrett1 | Kfox1111: Which use story do you think is closest fit? I'll connect you with the team. | 21:19 |
| ttx | barrett1: thos generally sound like private cloud / enterprise use cases more than massive public cloud use cases. Is that on purpose ? | 21:19 |
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| Rockyg | clarkb, Yeah, some of these projects might just be docs and focused testing of docs and capabilities | 21:20 |
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| kfox1111 | barrett1: its kind of its own story. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186617/ | 21:20 |
| barrett1 | ttx: They are a mix of Enterprise, Telco and CSPs | 21:20 |
| Shamail | barrett1: ++ | 21:20 |
| barrett1 | There's a lot of cross over for these basic things | 21:20 |
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| ttx | barrett1: ack | 21:20 |
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| ttx | agree that rolling upgrades is just good for everyone | 21:21 |
| jroll | ttx: I'd bet that private cloud folks are just the majority of users and/or users with large feature requests, though I see a few that apply to rackspace for inastance | 21:21 |
| dims | barrett1: Shamail: I've seen a lot of Pets related blueprints/reviews rejected by some projects. what's the plan for evangelization? why would it be different this time? | 21:21 |
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| kfox1111 | Probably lifecycle or lagacy Apps. | 21:21 |
| Rockyg | ttx, also, most of these apply to publice clouds for scaling needs | 21:21 |
| barrett1 | kfox1111: Will look it over. We also have a backlog of stories to be written | 21:21 |
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| Shamail | ttx: I'm glad that you mentioned that. Geoff and Rockyg are working to start a CSP (public cloud) user group since one does not formally exist yet. | 21:21 |
| jroll | ttx: upgrades, capacity management, simple API | 21:21 |
| kfox1111 | barrett1: Thanks. | 21:21 |
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| ttx | Shamail: great! | 21:21 |
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| barrett1 | What do you all think of the priority of these stories? Based upon the limited info I gave.... | 21:22 |
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| jroll | barrett1: IMO they're all good things to do | 21:22 |
| Shamail | dims: I think one of the differences would be to include developers as a part of the gap analysis process and also working with our teams to make sure that we have people willing to execute versus just "suggest" and leaving the teams trying to prioritize with existing resources | 21:22 |
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| barrett1 | jroll: +1 | 21:23 |
| jroll | idk about priority, that's going to vary wildly by person I think :) | 21:23 |
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| dims | Shamail: some of them is not a matter of resources, but philosophy (Pets specifically) | 21:23 |
| ttx | barrett1: some of them need to be individually implemented (think: rolling upgrades) while some others can be driven from a central location (think: containerized deployment -> Kolla) | 21:23 |
| Shamail | jroll: +1... The simple API resonates will with me :) | 21:23 |
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| kfox1111 | with my op hat on, quotas and rolling updates are our biggest needs. | 21:23 |
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| ttx | barrett1: the latter will probalby happen faster | 21:23 |
| jroll | rolling upgrades as #1 is a huge +1 from me though, I've been doing rolling upgrades downstream with ironic and it makes life so awesome | 21:23 |
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| Shamail | dims: +1, I want to have the conversation because I do agree that philosophy plays a role in prior rejections as well. | 21:24 |
| dims | y that one is a no brainer in my book | 21:24 |
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| barrett1 | ttx: We took a preliminary swag at which projects were inolved in each user story. All of them involved several...if not all. | 21:24 |
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| dims | (rolling upgrades) | 21:24 |
| dims | thanks Shamail | 21:24 |
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| barrett1 | ttx: We've heard that where the PWG can add value is in cross-project and cross-release, so we prioritied those user stories higher | 21:25 |
| docaedo | I wonder if the story about "service separation and different library versions" is really about rolling upgrades? less so different library versions, more different service versions? | 21:25 |
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| Rockyg | I think they are certainly related | 21:25 |
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| kfox1111 | docaedo: yeah. thats a good way of putting it. | 21:25 |
| ttx | barrett1: FWIW I'm pushing for some refactoring in summit conference tracks that would explicitly make room for a "upstream dev" track where presenting those would directly reach developers and pass a message | 21:26 |
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| gordc | barrett1: for the items that cover all projects, how do we avoid the 'one size fits all' approach... ie it seems like rolling upgrades solutions are being copy/pasted everywhere but not necessarily optimised for each project. | 21:26 |
| dims | ttx: +1 | 21:26 |
| Shamail | So does the list of prioritized user stories (out of the many user stories that were mentioned) make sense? We wanted to ensure that we didn't relegate anything that this team feels is important to the back-burner during our pilot. | 21:26 |
| ttx | currently we have no good forum for a formal presentation of those | 21:26 |
| barrett1 | docaedo: I think you're probably right - more about upgrades. If Kolla is used then it's easy, if not.... | 21:26 |
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| kfox1111 | though I guess they are slightly different in one way. Rolling upgrades may need service seperation, but we may want to run different versioned services for long periods of time, outside of a rolling upgrade. | 21:26 |
| Shamail | ttx: ++ | 21:26 |
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| jroll | right, I think "not deploying identical versions of each service" is a useful thing (I know it is, we do it) | 21:27 |
| Rockyg | kfox1111, ++ | 21:27 |
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| Shamail | We want to be respective of time and make sure that we reach a list of next steps while allowing time for other items in today's agenda. | 21:27 |
| barrett1 | docaedo: Sorry, VersionedObjects will address the service issues. Service/Library separation is about system library dependencies | 21:27 |
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| jroll | ok, I think service separation is a solved problem with virtualenvs etc like clarkb said | 21:28 |
| docaedo | barrett1: yep, version all the things is the answer to making different service versions work happily (easing the upgrade story) | 21:28 |
| jroll | anyway, this looks like a great start IMO | 21:28 |
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| Rockyg | and gordc, yeah. Rolling upgrades need to fit each project. Some may work the same, but....Horizon encompasses all projects so it will be harder | 21:28 |
| barrett1 | ttx +1; will keep a eye out for this | 21:28 |
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| barrett1 | jroll +1 | 21:29 |
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| dims | barrett1: Shamail: call it time on this topic? | 21:29 |
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| gordc | Rockyg: agreed. i guess the concern i had was it seems right now it's not really optimised to fit the projects design... they're just a generic solution that may work (but not optimally) | 21:29 |
| Rockyg | ttx, when you have more solid info/design, come to a prod_wg meeting to discuss... | 21:29 |
| barrett1 | Dims: Want to cover next steps if we have time | 21:29 |
| dims | sure | 21:29 |
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| barrett1 | High-level of next steps: User Stories updated with MC comments and posted in Report, User story team creation, gap analysis complete for pre-design summit project discussions, CPLs starting to join team meetings, etc. | 21:30 |
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| barrett1 | A timeline view will be posted on our wiki by next week | 21:30 |
| dims | barrett1: link please | 21:30 |
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| Shamail | We would like to share the link for the time-line with this team. Can we use the ML to share? | 21:31 |
| Shamail | It has not been created yet. | 21:31 |
| dims | Shamail: +1 | 21:31 |
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| Shamail | Thanks. | 21:31 |
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| Shamail | We will update the team as soon as possible. | 21:31 |
| Rockyg | product team wiki page: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam | 21:31 |
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| barrett1 | Any next steps related to cross-project team that you want us to include? | 21:31 |
| dims | Thanks Rockyg | 21:31 |
| Rockyg | the link will be there... | 21:31 |
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| Shamail | Rockyg: thanks! Good point. | 21:32 |
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| dims | ok switching to another topic | 21:32 |
| dims | #topic API WG recommendations - Heads up | 21:33 |
| dims | This topic was raised to highlight these guidelines for the Cross Project Liaisons - courtesy of elmiko, etoews, jaypipes | 21:33 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "API WG recommendations - Heads up (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:33 | |
| Shamail | I think we can move on with the action that we will share the link and people will let us know if they disagree with the current "prioritized" user story list. | 21:33 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/190743/ - Add description of pagination parameters | 21:33 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/215683/ - Require "OpenStack-" in headers | 21:33 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/208264/ - Add the condition for using a project term | 21:33 |
| barrett1 | Ok - Sounds like are priorities are OK for now, we'll send out the timeline link later this week and keep an eye out for more news from ttx/ | 21:33 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/185288/ - Added note about caching of responses when using https | 21:33 |
| dims | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/183456/ - Add section describing 501 common mistake | 21:33 |
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| dims | #action shamail barrett1 to share the link and people will let us know if they disagree with the current "prioritized" user story list. | 21:33 |
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| dims | thanks Shamail barrett1 | 21:33 |
| Rockyg | Uh, do we need a cross project session to see what, if any dependencies exist between projects to accomplish rolling upgrades for each? Generate a state table or some such? | 21:33 |
| Shamail | Thanks everyone. | 21:34 |
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| barrett1 | Thanks all! | 21:34 |
| Rockyg | Oops. Got that in late. | 21:34 |
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| dims | Rockyg: ttx mentioned some time at summit for this | 21:34 |
| barrett1 | RockyG: Let's talk in team meeting and come with a proposal | 21:34 |
| dims | barrett1: ++ | 21:34 |
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| dims | jaypipes: elmiko: etoews: ping | 21:35 |
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| Shamail | barrett1: ++ | 21:35 |
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| elmiko | dims: thanks for posting the links | 21:35 |
| Rockyg | Yup. | 21:35 |
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| dims | elmiko: any commentary to go along with the links? :) | 21:35 |
| elmiko | not much to discuss, some of these have been reworked and are up again | 21:35 |
| elmiko | a few are new | 21:35 |
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| elmiko | i think the most controversial might be the header naming | 21:36 |
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| elmiko | or at least, it was | 21:36 |
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| dims | elmiko: so brickbats and kudos on the reviews? | 21:36 |
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| elmiko | oh, and the 501 seems to be a hot topic ;) | 21:37 |
| bknudson | get ready to start using OpenStack-Identity-Token rather than X-Auth-Token | 21:37 |
| elmiko | lol, something like that dims | 21:37 |
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| dims | :) | 21:37 |
| notmyname | surely we wouldn't break the client ecosystem like that ;-) | 21:37 |
| * dims whispers micro versions | 21:37 | |
| elmiko | i think bknudson is having some fun ;) | 21:37 |
| edleafe | elmiko: hehehe | 21:38 |
| elmiko | dims: we do have a microversion spec underway , but its still being worked on | 21:38 |
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| dims | elmiko: ah thanks | 21:39 |
| dims | any other feedback to elmiko? | 21:39 |
| elmiko | for the curious , https://review.openstack.org/187112 | 21:39 |
| elmiko | nope, that's all from me | 21:39 |
| dims | ah thanks | 21:39 |
| dims | ok, let's open it up | 21:40 |
| dims | #topic Open discussion | 21:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: crossproject)" | 21:40 | |
| tpatil | Request everyone to please review 'Return request ID to caller' specs | 21:40 |
| tpatil | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/156508 | 21:40 |
| notmyname | missed it earlier.. Swift 2.4.0 was released today | 21:40 |
| notmyname | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-announce/2015-September/000575.html | 21:40 |
| dims | tpatil: thanks | 21:40 |
| kfox1111 | ok. so, back on the nova instance user topic... | 21:40 |
| kfox1111 | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/186617/ | 21:40 |
| dims | notmyname: sweet | 21:40 |
| kfox1111 | Its sounding like it needs to be moved to a cross project spec? | 21:40 |
| tpatil | dims: Thanks | 21:40 |
| kfox1111 | we're also finding it hard to pin down which parts of the functionality belong to which project. | 21:41 |
| kfox1111 | Any suggestions for making progress? | 21:41 |
| dims | kfox1111: reading | 21:41 |
| kfox1111 | Thx. | 21:41 |
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| philipw | dims: at the mid-cycle kencjohn_ voluntered me (with permission :-) ) for the swift cpl... just wanted to say hi! | 21:42 |
| Shamail | Will this team have a design summit session in Tokyo? | 21:42 |
| dims | philipw: ah nice, welcome | 21:42 |
| philipw | thnx | 21:42 |
| notmyname | philipw: I look forward to talking with you. please let me know if you have any questions. also, feel free to lurk in #openstack-swift | 21:43 |
| jroll | Shamail: yes | 21:43 |
| jroll | (iirc) | 21:43 |
| philipw | notmyname: excellent, likewise | 21:43 |
| dims | kfox1111: i'd rope in a couple of keystone cores to that nova spec and ask what they think | 21:43 |
| Rockyg | jroll, you mean cross project -- yes | 21:43 |
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| Rockyg | Shamail, I'll report at the prod wg with links | 21:43 |
| Shamail | thanks jroll: I look forward to meeting a lot of you in-person! | 21:44 |
| kfox1111 | dims: the keystone and barbican ptl's are on board. | 21:44 |
| Shamail | Thanks Rockyg | 21:44 |
| dims | kfox1111: some of this could be in a middlware, may be some oslo work | 21:44 |
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| Rockyg | kfox1111, this sounds a lot like the beginnings of user API for various needs cross project | 21:44 |
| kfox1111 | yeah. its very cross project. :/ | 21:45 |
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| kfox1111 | magnum's talking about implementing an alternative right now, sicne it doesnt' exist. :/ | 21:45 |
| kfox1111 | and they need something quickly. | 21:45 |
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| dims | kfox1111: i don't see them commenting on the review | 21:45 |
| Rockyg | This will also be crucial for nested tenants | 21:46 |
| kfox1111 | sahara, trove and heat all do similar other things now, but don't share any implementation. :/ | 21:46 |
| dims | kfox1111: +1 to start a cross project spec and an email thread then | 21:46 |
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| kfox1111 | k. | 21:46 |
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| Shamail | dims: ++ | 21:46 |
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| Rockyg | kfox1111, on the ml thread, put *all* applicable projects and API | 21:47 |
| kfox1111 | I think thats basically everyone? | 21:47 |
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| elmiko | kfox1111: i've been following the instance user spec and really need to comment. we are also going to discuss it a little at the security mid-cycle | 21:47 |
| Rockyg | Yeah, so just "ALL" should do ;-) | 21:48 |
| kfox1111 | k. | 21:48 |
| Rockyg | but still, API as I bet that's what this comes down to - user apis | 21:48 |
| kfox1111 | elmiko: cool. | 21:48 |
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| kfox1111 | would be nice to reserve some time at the Tokyo summit for it too. | 21:49 |
| Shamail | I would try to get DefCore support too since this topic will impact their work too. | 21:49 |
| kfox1111 | Its really affecting a large number of projects by not having it. | 21:49 |
| elmiko | kfox1111: +1 | 21:49 |
| kfox1111 | app-catalog too. | 21:49 |
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| kfox1111 | its really hard to write secure, generic apps for the catalog without it. :/ | 21:50 |
| kfox1111 | DefCore, good idea. | 21:50 |
| Rockyg | Added the spec as is to xproject etherpad for summit | 21:51 |
| kfox1111 | perfect. thanks. | 21:51 |
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| dims | kfox1111: looks like you have some fans now :) | 21:51 |
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| kfox1111 | thanks. :) | 21:51 |
| dims | Does anyone else have any other topics to discuss? | 21:52 |
| dims | going once | 21:52 |
| dims | going twice | 21:52 |
| dims | Thanks a ton everyone | 21:52 |
| EmilienM | thanks dims! | 21:52 |
| edleafe | thanks dims! | 21:52 |
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| dims | EmilienM: thanks for your guidance! | 21:52 |
| Rockyg | Thanks! | 21:52 |
| dims | #endmeeting | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:52 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue Sep 1 21:52:49 2015 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-01-21.00.html | 21:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-01-21.00.txt | 21:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/crossproject/2015/crossproject.2015-09-01-21.00.log.html | 21:52 |
| elmiko | thanks dims | 21:52 |
| Shamail | Thanks for leading the discussion dims | 21:53 |
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| ttx | thx dims! | 21:54 |
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