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| qwebirc31154 | startmeeting higgins | 02:18 |
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| licy | HELP | 02:32 |
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| hongbin | #startmeeting higgins | 03:00 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 03:00:05 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 03:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'higgins' | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Higgins#Agenda_for_2016-05-24_0300_UTC Today's agenda | 03:00 |
| hongbin | #topic Roll Call | 03:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:00 | |
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| *** Vivek___ has joined #openstack-meeting | 03:00 | |
| yuanying | hi | 03:00 |
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| haiwei_ | hi | 03:00 |
| hongbin | hey | 03:00 |
| shu-mutou | o/ | 03:00 |
| sheel | hi | 03:01 |
| mkrai | o/ | 03:01 |
| Vivek___ | o/ | 03:01 |
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| hongbin | pause a few seconds for other attendees | 03:01 |
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| sudipto | o/ | 03:02 |
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| hongbin | Thanks for joining the meeting yuanying haiwei_ shu-mutou sheel mkrai Vivek___ sudipto | 03:03 |
| hongbin | #topic Introductions (For attendees not present on the first meeting) | 03:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Introductions (For attendees not present on the first meeting) (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:03 | |
| Namrata | O/ | 03:03 |
| hongbin | Namrata: hey | 03:03 |
| WangJian | hi | 03:04 |
| hongbin | Anyone want to introduce themselves? | 03:04 |
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| yanyanhu | hi, sorry, I'm late | 03:05 |
| hongbin | yantarou: NP | 03:05 |
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| hongbin | I didn't see Vivek___ sudipto WangJian at the first meeting | 03:05 |
| sudipto | Hi, I am contributor to nova atm (and glance) and i am also looking at hyper/kubernetes as my area of interest. | 03:05 |
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| WangJian | I am from China, and I working in Huawei. Very glad to work with you guys | 03:06 |
| hongbin | Welcome sudipto WangJian | 03:06 |
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| haiwei_ | welcome | 03:06 |
| sudipto | working for Linux Technology Center/IBM India. | 03:06 |
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| sudipto | thanks hongbin | 03:06 |
| Vivek___ | Hi Hongbin, I was there but i was bit late in that meeting. | 03:06 |
| hongbin | Vivek___: Oh, sorray about that | 03:06 |
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| hongbin | Anyone else want to introduce themselves? | 03:07 |
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| Vivek___ | Hi, I am Vivek Jain an individual contributor based in India. | 03:07 |
| hongbin | Vivek___: Welcome to the Higgins team | 03:07 |
| mkrai | Welcome everyone! | 03:07 |
| hongbin | #topic Announcements | 03:07 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:07 | |
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| hongbin | This is the second Higgins team meeting. We will hold a team meeting at this time every weeks. | 03:08 |
| sheel | 👍 | 03:08 |
| hongbin | Hope this is a good time for everyone | 03:08 |
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| hongbin | #topic Review Action Items | 03:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Review Action Items (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:08 | |
| hongbin | 1. hongbin fill FAQ to explain the relationship between Magnum and Higgins (DONE) | 03:08 |
| hongbin | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Higgins#Frequently_Asked_Questions | 03:08 |
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| mkrai | Thanks hongbin for this one. It is really helpful | 03:09 |
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| mkrai | +1 | 03:09 |
| hongbin | my pleasure | 03:09 |
| sheel | awesome.. | 03:09 |
| hongbin | Please feel free to edit the answers if you have anything to add to revise | 03:09 |
| hongbin | Or feel free to discuss with me if you have any inputs | 03:10 |
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| hongbin | 2. hongbin schedule a weekly meeting for Higgins (DONE) | 03:10 |
| hongbin | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/318335/ meeting at every Tuesday 0300UTC | 03:10 |
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| hongbin | As announced, we will have a weekly team meeting | 03:10 |
| hongbin | This conclude the review action items | 03:11 |
| hongbin | Any comment for that? | 03:11 |
| hongbin | #topic Drive consensus on project scope | 03:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Drive consensus on project scope (Meeting topic: higgins)" | 03:11 | |
| hongbin | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/container-management-service etherpad for collaborating on project requirements | 03:11 |
| hongbin | At the first meeting, we discussed a little about the project scope. | 03:11 |
| hongbin | We had everyone write down their preference in the etherpad above. | 03:11 |
| hongbin | Right now, we need to decide based on the proposed requirements. | 03:12 |
| hongbin | First, I will pause a few minutes for everyone review the etherpad for recap. | 03:12 |
| hongbin | At the bottom of the etherpad, there is a decision session. We are going to discuss each bullet in that session. | 03:12 |
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| flwang | o/ | 03:13 |
| hongbin | flwang: hey | 03:13 |
| flwang | hongbin: hey hongbin | 03:13 |
| hongbin | flwang: we are reviewing the etherpad | 03:13 |
| flwang | sorry for the late | 03:14 |
| hongbin | flwang: NP | 03:14 |
| hongbin | flwang: #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/container-management-service | 03:14 |
| flwang | hongbin: oh, the original one | 03:14 |
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| hongbin | yes | 03:14 |
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| hongbin | If everyone finish the reading, we are going to debate the descision | 03:15 |
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| yanyanhu | I'm done | 03:16 |
| mkrai | Me too | 03:17 |
| sheel | yep | 03:17 |
| yuanying | ok | 03:17 |
| WangJian | done | 03:17 |
| Qiming | o/ | 03:17 |
| hongbin | OK. Let's discuss the first item | 03:17 |
| hongbin | 1. Container Abstraction | 03:17 |
| hongbin | Qiming: hey | 03:17 |
| hongbin | In the proposed project scope, there are several proposed container technologies | 03:18 |
| hongbin | First, there are container runtimes, i.e. docker, clear container | 03:19 |
| Qiming | yes, different layers / approaches for abstraction | 03:19 |
| hongbin | Second, there are COEs, i.e. kubernetes, docker swarm, apache mesos | 03:19 |
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| hongbin | We need to decide which one to integrate | 03:19 |
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| hongbin | At least, decide which one to start with | 03:19 |
| mkrai | Docker, rocket and clearcontainer | 03:19 |
| hongbin | Opinions? | 03:19 |
| mkrai | Docker will be our first phase implementation. | 03:20 |
| yanyanhu | IMHO, docker should be the first one | 03:20 |
| Qiming | I'd vote for basic container abstraction | 03:20 |
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| mkrai | I have already posted a patch for docker | 03:20 |
| Qiming | leave the proxying for other COEs a future decision | 03:20 |
| mkrai | +1 for docker | 03:20 |
| yanyanhu | agree | 03:20 |
| mkrai | Yes Qiming agree | 03:20 |
| hongbin | It looks everyone agree to start with docker | 03:20 |
| hongbin | Any opposing point of view? | 03:20 |
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| sudipto | +1 for docker | 03:21 |
| haiwei_ | agree | 03:21 |
| hongbin | #agreed pick docker as the first integrated container runtime | 03:21 |
| WangJian | docker +1 | 03:21 |
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| flwang | +1 | 03:21 |
| shu-mutou | +1 for docker | 03:21 |
| flwang | we should use #vote | 03:21 |
| hongbin | For the second item, container management | 03:21 |
| hongbin | flwang: oh, yes we can | 03:21 |
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| Vivek___ | +1 | 03:22 |
| hongbin | everyone want to vote? | 03:22 |
| Qiming | +1 for docker, but I'd propose we do it by separating the interface and the mechanism (driver) | 03:22 |
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| namrata_ | +1 | 03:22 |
| sudipto | Qiming, +1 | 03:22 |
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| mkrai | I guess it is clear | 03:22 |
| hongbin | flwang: It looks everyone agree on docker, a vote is not necessary | 03:22 |
| mkrai | so vote is not needed | 03:22 |
| flwang | hongbin: hah, ok | 03:22 |
| hongbin | OK. Go to the second item | 03:23 |
| yanyanhu | maybe we can use vote for next topic :) | 03:23 |
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| hongbin | There are four proposed items | 03:23 |
| hongbin | 1. Basic container operations (i.e. CRUD) | 03:23 |
| hongbin | 2. Advanced operations | 03:23 |
| hongbin | 3. Scheduling containers | 03:24 |
| hongbin | 4. Nested containers (containers on Nova instances) VS non-nested containers (containers on compute hosts) | 03:24 |
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| hongbin | At the fist meeting, we agreed on #1 | 03:24 |
| mkrai | Yes | 03:24 |
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| hongbin | So, I guess we don't need to debate it further? | 03:24 |
| flwang | hongbin: yes :) | 03:24 |
| mkrai | Correct | 03:24 |
| yanyanhu | think so | 03:24 |
| haiwei_ | yes | 03:24 |
| hongbin | How about #2 | 03:24 |
| sudipto | hongbin, i read through the first meeting logs, i was wondering - will there be focus on isolated/clear containers as well? | 03:25 |
| yanyanhu | I suggest we leave it to upper layer services | 03:25 |
| hongbin | Should Higgins support advanced operations (i.e. keep container alive) | 03:25 |
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| mkrai | Sure we will be supporting advance features in future but I guess it is not the right time to discuss | 03:25 |
| mkrai | sudipto, Yes we are planning to | 03:25 |
| hongbin | sudipto: I believe there will be a focus (personal opinion) | 03:25 |
| haiwei_ | agree mkrai | 03:25 |
| yuanying | +1 mkrai | 03:25 |
| yanyanhu | at least in current stage, we should focus on primitive support | 03:25 |
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| mkrai | Yes hongbin we should support | 03:26 |
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| sudipto | hongbin, some of the workflow for hyper type containers actually use qemu - which kind of overlaps with nova's code. However, that is probably a topic for discussion later. | 03:26 |
| hongbin | sudipto: ack | 03:27 |
| hongbin | I guess everyone don't want to support advanced operations? | 03:27 |
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| yanyanhu | yes, at least not now :) | 03:27 |
| haiwei_ | no now | 03:27 |
| hongbin | Then, I am going to cross it out of the list | 03:27 |
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| sheel | hongbin: should be supproted but in future after basic setup ready | 03:27 |
| Qiming | I'd vote for keeping the scope limited for now, for several reasons: 1. personally, I'd like to view Higgins a 'container' flavor of nova, just like Ironic, a 'bare-metal' flavor of nova, leaving upper layer orchestration to other projects; 2. lessons learned from the past, when you put something there public, you will NEVER get a chance to deprecate it ... | 03:27 |
| mkrai | hongbin, I think you can mark it for later | 03:27 |
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| hongbin | #agreed Higgins won't consider support advanced container operation at short time | 03:28 |
| hongbin | Qiming: +1 | 03:28 |
| hongbin | #3 support scheduling for containers | 03:28 |
| hongbin | I think this is a must? | 03:28 |
| mkrai | Yes a must | 03:28 |
| yanyanhu | yea | 03:29 |
| mkrai | And how we are going to do it in first phase? | 03:29 |
| haiwei_ | should we consider No4 first? | 03:29 |
| hongbin | I think we can implement a very simple scheduler to start | 03:29 |
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| sudipto | hongbin, mkrai when we start supporting scheduling for containers - what happens when we get to the COEs (i believe at that time, we would want to be a passthrough?) | 03:29 |
| hongbin | For example, randomly picking a host | 03:29 |
| Qiming | we got to decide where to launch a container, but we should copy the interface design from nova | 03:30 |
| hongbin | sudipto: We can decide it later, once we want to support COEs. I guess we can pass through | 03:30 |
| mkrai | Yes sudipto | 03:30 |
| hongbin | Qiming: Yes, copying nova scheduler is an option | 03:30 |
| Qiming | a simple, naive scheduler is okay for the near future, but in the long run, we are not supposed to reinvent a scheduler | 03:30 |
| mkrai | And I think it will be better | 03:31 |
| hongbin | Qiming: nova is going to split out their scheduler into a separated project | 03:31 |
| sheel | Qiming: +1 | 03:31 |
| Qiming | yes, so I said 'copy the interface design', not the code | 03:31 |
| hongbin | Qiming: I see | 03:31 |
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| mkrai | Yes because our use case may vary | 03:32 |
| flwang | and inintially, we just need to support a roundrobin and add more scheduler driver later | 03:32 |
| sudipto | hongbin, mkrai - while designing the scheduler - i am bit concerned about the metrics that would be used here. Unlike nova, we should start with a pluggable architecture there - that is - there could be various sources of metrics generation and not dependence on another higgins component IMHO. | 03:32 |
| Qiming | flwang, +1 | 03:32 |
| janonymous_ | Hi | 03:33 |
| haiwei_ | flwang +1 | 03:33 |
| hongbin | sudipto: Yes, we could discuss the scheduler implementation details later | 03:33 |
| sheel | flwang: right | 03:33 |
| sudipto | hongbin, sure. | 03:33 |
| flwang | we don't really need a fancy scheduler for now, which could be done later after we figure out what's the metrics we really care about | 03:33 |
| mkrai | It is a huge topic | 03:33 |
| hongbin | Right now, we just need to decide what to do, not necessary how to do it | 03:33 |
| sudipto | hongbin, mkrai sure. | 03:34 |
| flwang | i'm thinking higgins cases maybe different from nova's | 03:34 |
| hongbin | #4 Support nested VM (VS none-nested VM) | 03:34 |
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| flwang | keep it simple | 03:35 |
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| hongbin | Should we start with nested VM use case, or non-nested VM use case, or both? | 03:35 |
| mkrai | Non nested | 03:35 |
| sudipto | mkrai, +1 | 03:35 |
| Vivek___ | +1 | 03:35 |
| Qiming | so the todo could be: 1. an scheduler interface design (copy from nova). 2. a dummy scheduler plugin doing things like round-robin | 03:35 |
| yanyanhu | maybe we should abstract the host from the beginning? | 03:35 |
| yuanying | nested VM means, user managed VM ? | 03:35 |
| hongbin | Qiming: +1 | 03:35 |
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| hongbin | yuanying: Nested VM means running containers in VMs | 03:35 |
| hongbin | yuanying: like what Magnum is doing | 03:36 |
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| yanyanhu | containers -> abstracted host -> VM/Baremetal? | 03:36 |
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| Qiming | yanyanhu, +1 | 03:36 |
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| mkrai | yanyanhu, And compute hosts also | 03:36 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: we have a topic later to discuss host management | 03:36 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin, ok | 03:36 |
| hongbin | I guess everyone agree to start with non-nested VM use case | 03:36 |
| hongbin | Any opposing point of view? | 03:37 |
| haiwei_ | agree | 03:37 |
| WangJian | agree | 03:37 |
| janonymous_ | +1 | 03:37 |
| mkrai | +1 | 03:37 |
| yanyanhu | +1 | 03:37 |
| shu-mutou | +1 | 03:37 |
| hongbin | #agreed support non-nested container use case as a start | 03:37 |
| Vivek___ | +1 | 03:37 |
| sheel | agree | 03:37 |
| namrata_ | +1 | 03:37 |
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| hongbin | #3 container composition | 03:37 |
| hongbin | Should we support docker-compose like feature | 03:38 |
| hongbin | opinions? | 03:38 |
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| yuanying | I read this document, https://coreos.com/rkt/docs/latest/running-lkvm-stage1.html | 03:38 |
| Qiming | em ... sounds like a Heat job | 03:38 |
| yanyanhu | +1 | 03:38 |
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| flwang | hongbin: i vote yes | 03:39 |
| yuanying | This document suppose how to use hyper/clear container technology | 03:39 |
| flwang | think it's a common simple tool for developer | 03:39 |
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| Qiming | yes, it is simple | 03:39 |
| Qiming | but maybe too simple to meet user requirements | 03:39 |
| mkrai | yes we should | 03:39 |
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| Qiming | suppose you want to make some changes to the containers deployed | 03:39 |
| mkrai | yuanying, Yes rocket supports clear container | 03:39 |
| yanyanhu | I guess user can use heat to achieve this goal | 03:39 |
| sudipto | Qiming, +1 - | 03:40 |
| Qiming | how would you do that? change the yml file and run 'docker-compose' again? | 03:40 |
| yanyanhu | so we may need to consider its relationship with heat template | 03:40 |
| mkrai | the same way docker does it? | 03:40 |
| mkrai | Why heat here? yanyanhu | 03:40 |
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| Qiming | a structured definition or a delcarative language helps simplify the initial deployment, but it is not a great tool for daily operations | 03:41 |
| yanyanhu | mkrai, because heat is orchestration service, so deployment is part of its scope | 03:41 |
| yanyanhu | so there should be overlap here I think | 03:41 |
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| hongbin | It looks there are two opposing point of view | 03:42 |
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| hongbin | 1. It belongs to higgins | 03:42 |
| mkrai | yanyanhu, you mean deployment of containers? | 03:42 |
| hongbin | 2. It belongs to Heat | 03:42 |
| haiwei_ | yanyanhu, you mean Heat can do the things what docker-compose does? | 03:42 |
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| yanyanhu | mkrai, could be | 03:42 |
| yanyanhu | and also the app/service upon container | 03:42 |
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| hongbin | OK. I guess it is better to table this one | 03:42 |
| hongbin | We can discuss it in the ML instead | 03:43 |
| yanyanhu | user can use heat template to describe this kind of deployment if they will I think | 03:43 |
| Qiming | yes, hongbin, we don't need to rush to a conclusion here | 03:43 |
| hongbin | Qiming: ack | 03:43 |
| hongbin | Next one | 03:43 |
| hongbin | Conainer host management | 03:44 |
| Qiming | I'm also thinking of other use cases, where users want to model things in TOSCA | 03:44 |
| yanyanhu | mkrai, maybe my misunderstanding, but I hope we can have a more thorough discussion for this topic :) | 03:44 |
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| mkrai | Yes sure. ML is needed | 03:44 |
| hongbin | #action Hongbin start a ML to discuss the container composition topic | 03:44 |
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| hongbin | OK. Docker host management | 03:44 |
| Qiming | the key of the docker-compose proposal is about ease-of-use, ease-of-management, that is something we should keep in mind as well | 03:45 |
| hongbin | yanyanhu: you had a comment for host management before? | 03:46 |
| yanyanhu | yes, about the abstraction layer | 03:46 |
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| yanyanhu | to hide the type of host from scheduler | 03:46 |
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| hongbin | like how nova does? | 03:46 |
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| yanyanhu | yes | 03:47 |
| hongbin | ack | 03:47 |
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| Qiming | 'host' management is a must, IMO, but we should be careful when exposing a user API | 03:47 |
| hongbin | Yes | 03:47 |
| WangJian | will it include what docker machine does? | 03:47 |
| Qiming | em.. interesting | 03:48 |
| hongbin | I guess it is different | 03:48 |
| hongbin | docker machine is for provision a machine (per my understanding) | 03:48 |
| mkrai | Heat will be our first choice when supporting nested vms? | 03:48 |
| hongbin | nova compute agent is for managing the hosts | 03:48 |
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| hongbin | mkrai: not sure from me | 03:49 |
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| hongbin | I agree with Qiming that host management is a must, otherwise, the scheduler is not going to work | 03:49 |
| Qiming | I see, if we are never gonna support containers on VMs, host management is not that interesting, it becomes completely a nova thing | 03:50 |
| mkrai | We will support it Qiming | 03:50 |
| WangJian | +1 Qiming | 03:50 |
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| yanyanhu | agree | 03:51 |
| sudipto | Qiming, hongbin by host management are we referring to Ironic sort of a thing or compute driver sort of a thing? | 03:51 |
| WangJian | I think we can support docker machine later | 03:51 |
| Qiming | if we will support containers on abstract hosts (VMs or baremetals), higgins has to know the nature of the 'host', what/where are they | 03:51 |
| Qiming | sudipto, it is more of a compute driver thing, IMO | 03:51 |
| hongbin | However, we decided to start with non-nested use case | 03:52 |
| hongbin | That means we don't need to worry the containers on VMs/Ironic right now | 03:52 |
| Qiming | starting from baremetal sounds good | 03:52 |
| yanyanhu | hongbin, there can be an abstraction layer and bare metal can be the first kind of "physical" host | 03:52 |
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| sudipto | Qiming, precisely. hence my earlier comment on the metrics gathering stuff. I don't think this can be based on nova - simply because nova does it based on the hypervisor. | 03:52 |
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| hongbin | yanyanhu: ack | 03:53 |
| haiwei_ | my concern is who will control the host, in other words, where does the 'host' come from? It should come from Nova? or not | 03:53 |
| sheel | we are left with 6 more minutes | 03:54 |
| Qiming | agreed, sudipto, just want to remind folks ... let's keep the design open | 03:54 |
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| yuanying | haiwei_: We will not use nova to manage | 03:54 |
| yuanying | host | 03:54 |
| haiwei_ | then use what? | 03:54 |
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| mkrai | hongbin, get this to ML? | 03:54 |
| yuanying | host will be set up by operator's hand | 03:55 |
| hongbin | #action hongbin start a ML to discuss container host management | 03:55 |
| hongbin | #topic Open Discussion | 03:55 |
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| sheel | project name -do we need change? | 03:55 |
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| hongbin | sheel: you have a better name? | 03:55 |
| mkrai | We need more contributors :) | 03:56 |
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| sheel | hongbin: I was looking into start casts of magnum pi | 03:56 |
| sudipto | We haven't talked Image management at all, wondering if we intend to use a proxy to docker registry or something. | 03:56 |
| sheel | ;) | 03:56 |
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| mkrai | That is still in todo sudipto | 03:56 |
| hongbin | sudipto: we can cover that in the next meeting | 03:56 |
| yanyanhu | sudipto, I'm not clear about the detail, but I guess we can follow the way that nova-docker is using? | 03:57 |
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| hongbin | I think nova-docker is using glance | 03:57 |
| yanyanhu | yes | 03:57 |
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| sudipto | mkrai, hongbin - next meeting sounds reasonable. yanyanhu - yeah that would mean docker tar files in glance. | 03:57 |
| hongbin | THe feedback is not so good, because glance don't support layers of images | 03:57 |
| Qiming | then, go glance, ;) | 03:57 |
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| yanyanhu | hongbin, that is a problem... | 03:58 |
| hongbin | For glance, the docker images don't have layers anymore | 03:58 |
| Qiming | so .. no longer docker push, docker pull, ;) | 03:58 |
| sudipto | hongbin, yeah - there's a new project called Glare. I will have some update on this in the next meeting. | 03:58 |
| mkrai | Thanks sudipto | 03:58 |
| hongbin | sudipto: ack | 03:59 |
| Qiming | if Higgins is focused on providing container lifecycle/runtime management, we can ignore the 'push/pull' requirement | 03:59 |
| hongbin | maybe | 03:59 |
| hongbin | OK. time is up | 03:59 |
| mkrai | Thanks everyone! | 03:59 |
| sudipto | Alrite, thanks everyone! | 03:59 |
| hongbin | Everyone. Thanks for joining the meeting | 03:59 |
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| Qiming | bye | 03:59 |
| sheel | Thank you guys | 03:59 |
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| yanyanhu | thanks | 04:00 |
| namrata_ | Thanks ..bye | 04:00 |
| Vivek___ | Thanks | 04:00 |
| WangJian | thx, bye | 04:00 |
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| haiwei_ | thanks | 04:00 |
| hongbin | Hope to see you all in the next meeting | 04:00 |
| shu-mutou | thx, bye | 04:00 |
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| hongbin | #endmeeting | 04:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 04:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 04:00:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 04:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/higgins/2016/higgins.2016-05-24-03.00.html | 04:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/higgins/2016/higgins.2016-05-24-03.00.txt | 04:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/higgins/2016/higgins.2016-05-24-03.00.log.html | 04:00 |
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| loquacities | hi everyone, docs install guide meeting starts here in 15 mins :) | 05:42 |
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| loquacities | hi, who do we have here for the install guide meeting? | 05:58 |
| loquacities | i'll kick off the bot in a couple of mins | 05:59 |
| katomo | o/ | 05:59 |
| loquacities | hiya katomo | 05:59 |
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| loquacities | might just be you and me :( | 05:59 |
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| katomo | :( | 06:00 |
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| loquacities | right, well, let's kick off anyway, even if it's just the two of us | 06:01 |
| loquacities | there's still plenty to talk about | 06:01 |
| katomo | I'd like to see folks from dev teams | 06:01 |
| loquacities | yeah, me too | 06:01 |
| katomo | yeah | 06:01 |
| loquacities | #startmeeting docinstallteam | 06:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 06:01:44 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is loquacities. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 06:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 06:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docinstallteam' | 06:01 |
| loquacities | #topic omg no one came to the meeting | 06:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "omg no one came to the meeting (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:01 | |
| loquacities | ok, how do we get devs to the meeting? | 06:02 |
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| katomo | hmmm... | 06:02 |
| loquacities | i could send a personal email to CPLs? | 06:02 |
| katomo | good idea | 06:02 |
| loquacities | i'm sure i've mentioned in the newsletter heaps, so maybe keep doing that | 06:02 |
| loquacities | #action Lana to email CPLs about install guide meeting attendance | 06:03 |
| loquacities | #undo | 06:03 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0xa510190> | 06:03 |
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| loquacities | #action loquacities to email CPLs about install guide meeting attendance | 06:03 |
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| loquacities | ok, well, i guess that's a good start | 06:04 |
| loquacities | moving on | 06:04 |
| loquacities | #topic proposals | 06:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "proposals (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:04 | |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/314020/ - Zigo's proposal for having debconf build as a conditional, instead of a seperate book. What do we think about this? | 06:04 |
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| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/316325/ - Kato's proposal for having the debconf book build separately, but relying on install guide content. What do we think about this? | 06:04 |
| loquacities | personally, i think your proposal has more merit at this stage, katomo | 06:05 |
| katomo | I'd like to use my #316325 patch. | 06:05 |
| loquacities | +1 | 06:05 |
| katomo | yep | 06:05 |
| loquacities | i've already +2d it, we need someone to +2A | 06:05 |
| loquacities | i think we can probably ask JRobinson__ to do that | 06:05 |
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| loquacities | heh, i'll ping him later ;) | 06:06 |
| katomo | :) | 06:06 |
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| loquacities | #topic specs | 06:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "specs (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:06 | |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/310588/ - Needs approval/merge | 06:06 |
| loquacities | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/301284/ - Well and truly merged, need to start work | 06:07 |
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| loquacities | i think we've addressed all the concerns on 310588 now | 06:07 |
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| katomo | #310588 is just +A'd ! | 06:07 |
| loquacities | oh! joe did it :) | 06:07 |
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| loquacities | sweet | 06:08 |
| loquacities | so, now we need to just start work on the action items for both specs | 06:08 |
| loquacities | i might need to send an email about that, so that's it not you and me doing everything | 06:08 |
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| katomo | hehe | 06:08 |
| loquacities | and, finally ... | 06:09 |
| loquacities | #topic bikeshedding | 06:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bikeshedding (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:09 | |
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| loquacities | #info what to call the New and Improved(TM) Install Guide? | 06:09 |
| loquacities | i'm thinking something like "OpenStack Installation Tutorial" | 06:09 |
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| katomo | hm | 06:09 |
| loquacities | but maybe we should create a google poll or something? | 06:10 |
| loquacities | people can vote and submit their ideas? | 06:10 |
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| katomo | yeah, good idea | 06:10 |
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| loquacities | ok, i'll sort that out | 06:10 |
| loquacities | #action loquacities to create poll on naming | 06:10 |
| loquacities | #topic open discussion | 06:10 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: docinstallteam)" | 06:10 | |
| loquacities | anything else? | 06:10 |
| katomo | nothing from me | 06:11 |
| loquacities | cool | 06:11 |
| loquacities | thanks for hanging around :) | 06:11 |
| loquacities | i'll try and spruik the meeting a little more for next time | 06:11 |
| katomo | thanks, loquacities | 06:11 |
| loquacities | #endmeeting | 06:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 06:11 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 06:11:26 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 06:11 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-05-24-06.01.html | 06:11 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-05-24-06.01.txt | 06:11 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docinstallteam/2016/docinstallteam.2016-05-24-06.01.log.html | 06:11 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeing senlin | 13:00 |
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| yanyanhu | hello | 13:01 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, typo in command | 13:01 |
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| Qiming | #startmeeting senlin | 13:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 13:02:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Qiming. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'senlin' | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | had to try again | 13:02 |
| elynn | o/ | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | seems some networking problem | 13:02 |
| Qiming | hi, elynn | 13:02 |
| yanyanhu | hi | 13:02 |
| Qiming | hi | 13:02 |
| elynn | sorry a little late | 13:02 |
| Qiming | not at all | 13:02 |
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| Qiming | I don't have outstanding issues for discussion today | 13:03 |
| Qiming | if you have some, please update the meeting agenda | 13:03 |
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| Qiming | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/SenlinAgenda | 13:03 |
| Qiming | #topic newton work items | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "newton work items (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:03 | |
| Qiming | testing | 13:04 |
| elynn | only event show and api show are needed. | 13:04 |
| Qiming | you mean the other API tests are all done? | 13:05 |
| elynn | I think | 13:05 |
| yanyanhu | patches have been proposed for these two cases. And elynn has started working on negative cases | 13:05 |
| elynn | Except for negative tests | 13:05 |
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| Qiming | great | 13:05 |
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| elynn | Saw your comment on event show | 13:05 |
| elynn | patch | 13:06 |
| Qiming | have tests in tree can help us ensure that the api changes are reflected into the tempest test cases soon, if any | 13:06 |
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| elynn | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320227/1/senlin/tests/tempest/api/events/test_event_show.py | 13:06 |
| Qiming | yes, don't think cls.event is necessary | 13:06 |
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| elynn | If put these lines in to test_show_event() | 13:07 |
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| elynn | In this test will contain 2 API access | 13:07 |
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| Qiming | emm, right | 13:08 |
| elynn | one for event list and one for event show. just for remind. | 13:08 |
| Qiming | another workaround is to set limit=1 when doing listing | 13:08 |
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| elynn | hmm, that's a good idea | 13:09 |
| Qiming | the reason is that we only allow specifying event_id for event_show | 13:09 |
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| Qiming | gate patch is still pending review, right? | 13:09 |
| elynn | Yes... | 13:09 |
| elynn | I rebase it today, to get it on top~ | 13:10 |
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| yanyanhu | looks like a lot of patches are pending | 13:10 |
| yanyanhu | for lack of workflow | 13:10 |
| Qiming | em, may be time to ping the reviewers | 13:10 |
| elynn | But still no progress. | 13:10 |
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| Qiming | it's been there for a while now | 13:10 |
| elynn | Okay | 13:10 |
| Qiming | and we'd better turn it on | 13:10 |
| elynn | I will reach them after meeting. | 13:11 |
| Qiming | thx | 13:11 |
| Qiming | Rally test ? | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/318453 | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | also pending there | 13:11 |
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| yanyanhu | this patch tries to add senlin support to rally-gate | 13:11 |
| yanyanhu | after that, any changes related to senlin in rally project can be verified | 13:11 |
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| Qiming | the other one has been hanging for over 40 days | 13:12 |
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| yanyanhu | it has been updated :) | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | https://review.openstack.org/301522 | 13:12 |
| yanyanhu | and ready for review now | 13:12 |
| elynn | Which channel should I use to find the right guy to review? Qiming | 13:13 |
| Qiming | also need to ping the rally team | 13:13 |
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| yanyanhu | yep | 13:13 |
| Qiming | openstack-infra I think | 13:13 |
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| elynn | Thx | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | I guess the first step is merging the patch to add gate job | 13:14 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | then more plugins can be added | 13:14 |
| Qiming | and we can manage those plugins by ourselves | 13:14 |
| yanyanhu | yes, in senlin repo | 13:15 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:15 |
| Qiming | #action yanyan and elynn to push infra and rally gate reviews | 13:15 |
| Qiming | health management | 13:16 |
| Qiming | don't think I have got any feed back on the etherpad | 13:16 |
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| lixinhui_ | this topic is indeed complicated | 13:16 |
| Qiming | I have started working on adding event listener to health manager | 13:16 |
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| yanyanhu | saw that patch you proposed | 13:17 |
| Qiming | hi, lixinhui_ | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | I saw your patch | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | hi, Qiming | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | fencing agent works now | 13:17 |
| Qiming | the patch is about reorg the functions so that an event listener can be squeezed in | 13:17 |
| lixinhui_ | just can not keep long run | 13:17 |
| yanyanhu | yes, it looks good | 13:17 |
| Qiming | fencing agent will crash? | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | just stop response | 13:18 |
| Qiming | fencing agent should be just about some scripts | 13:18 |
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| lixinhui_ | have to reload it | 13:18 |
| lixinhui_ | do not sure what will do? | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | will we install the agent into Senlin profile | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | ? | 13:19 |
| Qiming | haven't touch that thing for 2 years now | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | me never :) | 13:19 |
| Qiming | could be a new type of drivers I think | 13:19 |
| lixinhui_ | ? | 13:20 |
| Qiming | it will always be some model specific IPMI calls or something alike | 13:20 |
| lixinhui_ | do you mean with some software intalling functions | 13:20 |
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| lixinhui_ | what can be primary categories of model | 13:21 |
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| Qiming | I was looking at openipmi | 13:21 |
| xuhaiwei_ | do you want to do something keeping pinging the vms? | 13:21 |
| Qiming | there are many other vendor specific interfaces I think | 13:21 |
| Qiming | xuhaiwei_, hi | 13:22 |
| xuhaiwei_ | ping the vms to check if it is alive? | 13:22 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes, Qiming | 13:22 |
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| lixinhui_ | no, that is detection part | 13:23 |
| Qiming | xuhaiwei_, it is doable, but cannot be sure: 1) the VMs have not blocked ICMP traffic, 2) cannot be sure the VM is dead if ping fails | 13:23 |
| Qiming | xinhui and I were talking about fencing | 13:23 |
| Qiming | the term is called STONITH -- Shoot The Other Node In The Head | 13:23 |
| xuhaiwei_ | oh, it seems tacker has a feature of pinging vms | 13:24 |
| xuhaiwei_ | not very sure what you are talking about | 13:24 |
| Qiming | ping is one way, but event if a ping fails, you cannot declare that VM is dead | 13:24 |
| lixinhui_ | xuhaiwei_ are you investigating Taker these days? | 13:24 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes, lixinhui_, just installed it, don't know much about tacker | 13:25 |
| lixinhui_ | s/Taker/tacker | 13:25 |
| Qiming | I think he is investigating the integration of tacker and senlin? | 13:25 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes, Qiming | 13:25 |
| Qiming | great, I should help them, if they allow us to do that | 13:26 |
| xuhaiwei_ | In fact I am investigating nfv need for tacker more | 13:26 |
| Qiming | okay | 13:26 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | about auto-scaling feature in tacker, they seems not interested in senlin | 13:26 |
| lixinhui_ | will NEC provide any SDN controller? | 13:26 |
| Qiming | two features needed from tacker side is HA and AutoScaling | 13:26 |
| lixinhui_ | as backend of tacker? | 13:26 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | no definite task from my boss currently lixinhui_ | 13:27 |
| Qiming | xuhaiwei_, they are not familiar with senlin | 13:27 |
| Qiming | I left some comments to their specs | 13:27 |
| lixinhui_ | where are the specs | 13:27 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes, I am not familiar with tacker too, need to investigate it and see if we can propose senile to them | 13:28 |
| xuhaiwei_ | I saw your comments | 13:28 |
| Qiming | if they want to retry what we have failed, that is fine | 13:28 |
| xuhaiwei_ | the current Heat PTL is reviewing tacker much now? | 13:28 |
| Qiming | in an open community, you cannot force others to do something they don't believe | 13:28 |
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| Qiming | xuhaiwei_, I don't think so | 13:29 |
| xuhaiwei_ | at least he is a heat core | 13:29 |
| Qiming | it is a heat core from huawei | 13:29 |
| xuhaiwei_ | I can't remember his name | 13:29 |
| xuhaiwei_ | ok | 13:29 |
| Qiming | kind of misleading the tacker team ... sigh | 13:30 |
| Qiming | anyway | 13:30 |
| Qiming | documentation | 13:30 |
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| Qiming | resumed my work on adding tutorials | 13:30 |
| Qiming | need to add a simple guide on how to achieve auto-scaling with and without heat | 13:31 |
| Qiming | and some simple tutorial on exercising the policies | 13:31 |
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| Qiming | API documentation was cleansed | 13:31 |
| Qiming | it was a tedious work ... | 13:31 |
| Qiming | every single parameter has to be reviewed several times | 13:32 |
| Qiming | hope it is done this time | 13:32 |
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| Qiming | container support | 13:32 |
| Qiming | xuhaiwei_, reviewed your patch | 13:32 |
| xuhaiwei_ | thanks | 13:33 |
| Qiming | I think we are touching some implementation details in the review | 13:33 |
| Qiming | for example, a container cluster should memorize the 'hosting nodes' for each container | 13:33 |
| xuhaiwei_ | since we got an agreement on adding a new property 'host' to Node api, I will start to implement it soon | 13:33 |
| Qiming | yes, that is true, we can decide where to put this data later | 13:33 |
| Qiming | it can be a policy data, can be a cluster data | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | but we don't have to worry about it | 13:34 |
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| Qiming | em... | 13:34 |
| xuhaiwei_ | ok, I was not sure whether we needed to add a similar property to Cluster api | 13:35 |
| xuhaiwei_ | it seems not now | 13:35 |
| Qiming | I'm more worried about the placement policy implementation | 13:35 |
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| Qiming | xuhaiwei_, that can be driven by requests | 13:35 |
| Qiming | speaking of extending the node-create api so that the 'host' can be specified, that would be useful | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | I was also thinking about adding a --profile parameter to the cluster-scale-out call, so that new nodes added can use a different profile | 13:36 |
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| Qiming | it is for the use case of rolling upgrade | 13:37 |
| xuhaiwei_ | the placement policy implementation depends on the existing nodes, but the current nodes are not a definite thing | 13:37 |
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| Qiming | what do you mean by "not a definite thing"? | 13:37 |
| xuhaiwei_ | I mean the vm cluster which will host the container cluster is not definite | 13:38 |
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| Qiming | then we have the policy to handle that | 13:38 |
| xuhaiwei_ | in placement policy we need to get the vm nodes information first | 13:38 |
| Qiming | yes | 13:38 |
| Qiming | each time you do a placement decision, you will get all the nodes | 13:39 |
| Qiming | among which, there could be some nodes newly added | 13:39 |
| xuhaiwei_ | yes | 13:39 |
| Qiming | those are things you will keep in mind when developing the policy, they are not blockers, right? | 13:40 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | a little complicated but not very difficult I think | 13:40 |
| Qiming | right | 13:40 |
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| Qiming | okay, looking forward to your patches | 13:41 |
| Qiming | engine improvement | 13:41 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | ok | 13:41 |
| Qiming | batch control is done, removing line 34 now | 13:41 |
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| Qiming | as for line 33, NODE_CREATE, NODE_DELETE, I'm thinking of translating NODE_CREATE to CLUSTER_SCALE_OUT if cluster parameter is specified | 13:42 |
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| Qiming | in that way, all cluster policies that can handle CLUSTER_SCALE_OUT action will automatically apply on the NODE_CREATE request | 13:43 |
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| Qiming | just a rough idea, haven't got time to think through yet | 13:43 |
| lixinhui_ | sounds reasonable | 13:44 |
| Qiming | a brutal way is to remove --cluster from node-create call | 13:44 |
| Qiming | but this is really a big hole we have to fix asap | 13:44 |
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| Qiming | or else, node-create calls can skip all policy checks ... | 13:45 |
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| Qiming | please find me on IRC if you have any suggestions on this | 13:45 |
| Qiming | receiver of zaqar, no one is onto yet I believe | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | notifications | 13:46 |
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| Qiming | em, I read the versioned notification api spec in nova | 13:46 |
| Qiming | no matter we will do the same thing or not, that spec is a good writeup | 13:47 |
| Qiming | so, I have added a starting point for versioned objects | 13:47 |
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| Qiming | as I have noted in the commit message: oslo.versionedobjects will help serve two use cases -- live upgrade of senlin service; versioned notification | 13:48 |
| xuhaiwei_ | a versioned notification api? | 13:48 |
| Qiming | yes, notification should be versioned | 13:48 |
| Qiming | we need to control what senlin is saying to other services when it speaks | 13:48 |
| xuhaiwei_ | control what? | 13:49 |
| Qiming | all contents should be predictable | 13:49 |
| xuhaiwei_ | ohh | 13:49 |
| Qiming | say, if senlin wants to post a message into zaqar or oslo.notification when a cluster is scaled out | 13:49 |
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| Qiming | there needs a spec for the message payload | 13:49 |
| Qiming | so the receiver can always expect that there will be a 'nodes' key which is a list of new nodes added, ... | 13:50 |
| Qiming | we cannot assume that we will never change the content | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | so at the very beginning, we will do version control for this | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | thanks god, we are a new service, we don't have to do a lot backward compatibility things | 13:51 |
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| Qiming | we learned a lot from lessons in other services | 13:52 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | yes | 13:52 |
| Qiming | anyone can jump in to that thread if interested | 13:52 |
| Qiming | we may need to revised the db schema for this purpose | 13:53 |
| Qiming | add a new multi-string option: "event_backend" | 13:53 |
| Qiming | then the same event api can be used to save records into db or post messages to queue or BOTH ... | 13:54 |
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| Qiming | #topic open discussion | 13:54 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: senlin)" | 13:54 | |
| lixinhui_ | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/318577/1/specs/newton/manual-and-auto-scaling.rst | 13:54 |
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| lixinhui_ | is the link referred to the mentioned tacker AS discussion? | 13:55 |
| Qiming | that is one of them | 13:56 |
| elynn | Maybe we can propose a spec based on senlin? | 13:56 |
| Qiming | also this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/306562/ | 13:56 |
| Qiming | elynn, we want to help | 13:56 |
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| Qiming | but someone else should sign on get the job done | 13:57 |
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| Qiming | anything else? | 13:59 |
| Qiming | time is up | 13:59 |
| xuhaiwei_ | no | 13:59 |
| lixinhui_ | no | 13:59 |
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| Qiming | thanks guys, already very late, good night | 13:59 |
| Qiming | #endmeeting | 13:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:59 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 13:59:48 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-24-13.02.html | 13:59 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-24-13.02.txt | 13:59 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/senlin/2016/senlin.2016-05-24-13.02.log.html | 13:59 |
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| * dasm is ready for Neutron Team Meeting! FTW! | 14:00 | |
| mestery | o/ | 14:00 |
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| johndperkins | hi | 14:01 |
| amuller | hiya | 14:01 |
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| akamyshnikova | hi | 14:01 |
| haleyb | hi | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | #startmeeting networking | 14:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 14:01:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ihrachys. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 14:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 14:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'networking' | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | hello my friends! | 14:01 |
| njohnston | o/ | 14:01 |
| HenryG | o/ | 14:01 |
| slaweq | hello | 14:01 |
| yamahata | hello | 14:01 |
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| hoangcx | hi | 14:01 |
| ihrachys | it's nice to see you all! :) | 14:01 |
| amotoki | hi | 14:01 |
| * ihrachys waves | 14:01 | |
| boden | howdy o/ | 14:01 |
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| regXboi | o/ o\ o/ | 14:01 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let's get it started | 14:02 |
| twm2016 | o/ | 14:02 |
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| ajo_ | o/ | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings Agenda | 14:02 |
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| bcafarel | hi | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | #topic Announcements | 14:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:02 | |
| HoloIRCUser | Hi | 14:02 |
| ihrachys | as you should be aware of, newton-1 is already approaching | 14:02 |
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| ihrachys | it's actually happening in next week or two | 14:03 |
| ihrachys | #link http://releases.openstack.org/newton/schedule.html Release schedule | 14:03 |
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| ihrachys | to keep us focused on delivering what's scheduled, if not in N-1 then at least in N-final, please keep in mind the following... | 14:03 |
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| yanyanhu | Qiming, xuhaiwei_ , host of node? | 14:04 |
| yanyanhu | if node is a VM managed by nova, how enduser could know the information about nova-compute nodes | 14:04 |
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| xuhaiwei_ | hi yanyanhu | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | yanyanhu: please use another channel, we run a meeting. thanks. | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | we have the review dashboard contributed by rossella_s | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | #link http://status.openstack.org/reviews/ | 14:04 |
| ihrachys | note the link at the top in "Gerrit Dashboard links" section | 14:05 |
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| rossella_s | thanks for mentioning this ihrachys | 14:05 |
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| ihrachys | it requires to be logged in, and it's personal (f.e. it hides your own patches, or patches that you voted) | 14:05 |
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| dasm | rossella_s: thanks | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | please make sure that 1) we give priority to patches on that dashboard; 2) if you see a critical patch that is not there, please make sure the gerrit topic is correct (belonging to a bug or blueprint that is targeted for Newton) | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | that will hopefully help us not to loose focus. | 14:06 |
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| ihrachys | more general announcements to come... | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | 1. we have a mentoring program running, and people ask for help: | 14:06 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095667.html | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | as per the email, it should not require too much time on your behalf, so please consider joining the good effort | 14:07 |
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| * njohnston volunteered, heaven help his mentee | 14:07 | |
| rossella_s | njohnston, thanks for that! | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | and another thing to mention, amuller was looking for more volunteers to get tempest tests for neutron to a better shape: | 14:07 |
| ihrachys | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/094997.html | 14:08 |
| dasm | ihrachys: i'm one of the mentors. can tell that it indeed doesn't require a lot of time. | 14:08 |
| amuller | Thank you Ihar :) | 14:08 |
| ihrachys | I know tests are boring, but please consider doing what's right ;) | 14:08 |
| rossella_s | regarding mentoring people interested can ping me...I have been a mentor for a while for the outreachy program :) | 14:08 |
| rossella_s | ihrachys ++ | 14:08 |
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| ihrachys | also worth noting is the fact that the next Monday is a holiday in US. | 14:09 |
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| ihrachys | so I am wondering what you think about when we will have the next one | 14:09 |
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| ihrachys | we can keep it on Monday, and US folks will join on best effort, or we may skip it. | 14:10 |
| dasm | ihrachys: second option seems to be good solution | 14:10 |
| ihrachys | everyone in agreement with that ^? | 14:11 |
| amotoki | it depends on our PTL | 14:11 |
| ihrachys | or you are just sleepy :P | 14:11 |
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| ajo_ | if there's something important we can always reach out via email, but let's leave last call to our PTL may be? | 14:11 |
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| ihrachys | amotoki: the PTL suggested to reach out to you guys hence I am asking | 14:11 |
| hichihar_ | N-1 closes limit | 14:12 |
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| amuller | Why not have it a week from now? | 14:12 |
| hichihar_ | N-1 is next week? | 14:12 |
| amuller | So have it on this slot next week as a one time thing | 14:12 |
| dasm | amuller: tuesday? | 14:12 |
| amuller | yes | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | ajo_: we will definitely render unto Caesar | 14:12 |
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| rossella_s | amuller, +1 | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | amuller: I suspect the slot will be used. | 14:12 |
| dasm | amuller: makes sense... | 14:12 |
| ajo_ | amuller +1 : we can fall back to #openstack-neutron if the slot here is busy | 14:12 |
| ihrachys | but we can run it in our channel | 14:12 |
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| * dasm is wondering what kind of mess we will have with next meetings :D | 14:13 | |
| ajo_ | lol | 14:13 |
| amuller | ihrachys: indeed the slot is taken in this room next week | 14:13 |
| yanyanhu | for heat stack, host's definition is more confusing... | 14:13 |
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| yanyanhu | #endmeeting | 14:14 |
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| ajo_ | yanyanhu, I believe you're talking on the wrong channel | 14:14 |
| amotoki | yanyanhu: wrong channel :( | 14:14 |
| amuller | ihrachys: I never understood why IRC channels are a problem considering they're limitless, we can just have it on the main channel | 14:14 |
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| ihrachys | someone is eager to end our meeting! :( | 14:14 |
| dasm | xD | 14:14 |
| ajo_ | :') | 14:14 |
| hichihar_ | ;) | 14:14 |
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| ihrachys | amuller: they say it's to avoid too much clash and allow people to join more of those held. | 14:14 |
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| dasm | amuller: i've seen couple of meetings in regular channel. maybe it is good solution for next week? | 14:15 |
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| dasm | with info on ML about temporary chnge | 14:15 |
| dasm | *change | 14:15 |
| amotoki | tuesday 22UTC looks open | 14:15 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let me update the PTL with ideas popping up here, and deliver it to armax. he will make a final call. | 14:15 |
| dasm | ++ | 14:16 |
| hichihar_ | +1 | 14:16 |
| njohnston | +1 | 14:16 |
| ihrachys | final thing... armax naively said he will go to vacation the first two weeks of June | 14:16 |
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| ihrachys | so keep in mind he may be not that responsive as usual | 14:16 |
| ihrachys | meaning, time to wait goes as far as 30 mins! | 14:17 |
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| ihrachys | ok, that's it on announcement front | 14:17 |
| ihrachys | #topic Gate | 14:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Gate (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:17 | |
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| ihrachys | as you probably know, a rare patch goes without a recheck these days due to functional test failures | 14:18 |
| ihrachys | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1567668 | 14:18 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1567668 in neutron "Functional job sometimes hits global 2 hour limit and fails" [High,In progress] - Assigned to Jakub Libosvar (libosvar) | 14:18 |
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| ajo_ | armax, you can get rid of us for a couple of weeks, but it won't be forever!... lol. Enjoy your vacation :) | 14:18 |
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| ihrachys | jlibosva: you were looking into it. is it still cloudy there? | 14:18 |
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| dasm | it seems to be one of the patches: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317369/ | 14:18 |
| jlibosva | I tried to come up with a workaround - anyone feel free to comment: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317369/ | 14:18 |
| * ihrachys targeted the bug to n-1 | 14:19 | |
| jlibosva | while running debugging patch with rechecks to gather yet more info of what's going on there | 14:19 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let's continue in gerrit on that one. I feel you are in good hands with kevinbenton and otherwiseguy on the patch. | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | we have more gate failure bugs reported | 14:20 |
| ihrachys | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bugs?field.tag=gate-failure | 14:20 |
| jlibosva | I consulted the workaround with otherwiseguy on impacts of that patch. Basically not blocking on select() passed more than 10 times in a row | 14:20 |
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| ihrachys | jlibosva: great. what's the usual failure rate? | 14:20 |
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| jlibosva | ihrachys: IIRC according graphite it's 40-50% | 14:20 |
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| ihrachys | ok, seems promising | 14:21 |
| ihrachys | so, back to the list of gate failure bugs I mentioned above | 14:21 |
| ihrachys | we have some bugs that currently have no assignees there | 14:21 |
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| ihrachys | f.e. https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1584920 or https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1584923 | 14:22 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1584920 in neutron "ExternalGatewayForFloatingIPNotFound exception raised in gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-full" [High,New] | 14:22 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1584923 in neutron "test_port_security_macspoofing_port fails with IndexError: list index out of range" [High,New] | 14:22 |
| ihrachys | it would be cool to see someone taking care of those orphans | 14:22 |
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| ihrachys | any volunteers? | 14:22 |
| dasm | will try to do this: https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1584923 | 14:23 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1584923 in neutron "test_port_security_macspoofing_port fails with IndexError: list index out of range" [High,New] - Assigned to Darek Smigiel (smigiel-dariusz) | 14:23 |
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| ihrachys | dasm: ok, please assign it to yourself if you will work on it. | 14:23 |
| dasm | ihrachys: done | 14:23 |
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| yamamoto | dasm: i think https://review.openstack.org/#/c/251423/ also fixes that bug | 14:23 |
| ihrachys | oh you did. thanks. | 14:23 |
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| dasm | yamamoto: oh. thanks. i'll look into this | 14:24 |
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| ihrachys | yamamoto: hm. is it a dup? | 14:24 |
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| dasm | ihrachys: seems to be | 14:24 |
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| yamamoto | i haven't looked 1584923 but i guess so | 14:24 |
| ihrachys | dasm: ok. let's check it and mark appropriately if that's the case. | 14:24 |
| dasm | ihrachys: yamamoto. will check | 14:25 |
| ihrachys | anyone to take care of https://bugs.launchpad.net/neutron/+bug/1584920 ? | 14:25 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1584920 in neutron "ExternalGatewayForFloatingIPNotFound exception raised in gate-tempest-dsvm-neutron-full" [High,New] | 14:25 |
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| ihrachys | ok, we'll find someone. or not. | 14:26 |
| carl_baldwin | I'll work on finding someone. | 14:26 |
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| carl_baldwin | Or, take it later this week. | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | thanks Carl! | 14:26 |
| ihrachys | that's the spirit :) | 14:27 |
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| dasm | carl_baldwin: round robin? ) | 14:27 |
| dasm | :) | 14:27 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let's hope we have the most burning gate issues taken care of. let's move on. | 14:27 |
| ihrachys | #topic Bugs | 14:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Bugs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:27 | |
| ihrachys | hichihar_: you were the latest deputy. do you have anything significant to report? | 14:28 |
| ihrachys | were docs sufficient for you to run with the role? | 14:28 |
| hichihar_ | ihrachys: Nothing. It was a quiet last week although it seems this week was exciting... :P | 14:28 |
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| carl_baldwin | I can confirm that, I've already go a backlog of new bugs I'm working through. | 14:29 |
| ihrachys | ok, let's make sure no bugs don't fall thru the cracks and we pass the role to the next deputy with some overlap | 14:29 |
| carl_baldwin | :) | 14:29 |
| carl_baldwin | That's me! | 14:29 |
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| * ihrachys bows to the mightly ubiquitous Carl | 14:30 | |
| ihrachys | *mighty | 14:30 |
| ihrachys | #topic Docs | 14:30 |
| ajo_ | I've signed up for the next slot, after migthy carl_baldwin and kevinbenton | 14:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Docs (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:30 | |
| ihrachys | I don't see Sam-I-Am here | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | anyone want to update on docs front? | 14:30 |
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| ihrachys | ok, I guess we skip it | 14:31 |
| ihrachys | #topic Open Discussion | 14:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: networking)" | 14:32 | |
| ihrachys | the agenda on demand agenda is empty | 14:32 |
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| hichihar_ | Client? | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | so if anyone has a thing to raise, please do | 14:32 |
| ihrachys | hichihar_: what's about it? | 14:32 |
| ajo_ | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320439/ | 14:32 |
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| hichihar_ | I thought we have client section in meeting. | 14:32 |
| ajo_ | if anybody has time and interest, I have put for review an spec related to flow management in the l2-agent ovs extensions | 14:32 |
| hichihar_ | It may be my misunderstand. | 14:33 |
| ihrachys | hichihar_: not in the official agenda but we can discuss it now. do you have anything on your mind worth attention of the whole team? | 14:33 |
| dasm | ihrachys: hichihar_ is right. last time we had transition to osc and keystonev3 | 14:33 |
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| hichihar_ | I don't have idea about client but client folks? | 14:34 |
| ihrachys | dasm: if we think it's worth a stable topic in the agenda, let's edit the wiki page to make sure it's covered: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings | 14:34 |
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| dasm | ihrachys: will do. | 14:34 |
| amotoki | we have a lot of time remaining. let's discuss ajo_'s and move other later. | 14:34 |
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| amotoki | i forgot to add the client topic to the agenda. | 14:34 |
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| ihrachys | ok, let's do the ajo_'s topic | 14:35 |
| ihrachys | ajo_: do you plan for more details on the matter, or that's it, and we will see more when we come to implementation? | 14:35 |
| ajo_ | it doesn't need a lot of discussion here probably, but I just wanted to raise awareness | 14:35 |
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| ajo_ | ihrachys, I didn't want to drill down into the implementation details if not necessary, we can discuss that over code if the high level is clear | 14:35 |
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| ajo_ | may be we can define more clearly how the API interface itself will change to allow this, for example | 14:36 |
| ihrachys | I see. one thing worth mentioning there is how we are going to test it performance wise. introducing lots of redirections and tables may not be easy on the switch (?) | 14:36 |
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| ajo_ | ihrachys, well, you will have the same amount of redirections if you have the same extensions happening | 14:37 |
| ajo_ | ihrachys, the only thing is that you will have the non interoperability | 14:37 |
| ajo_ | ihrachys, ovs firewall has already lots of table jumps, and it's still faster than iptables fw | 14:37 |
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| ihrachys | I see. anyway, I guess it does not required a discussion here and can be postponed to gerrit. | 14:38 |
| ajo_ | ihrachys, ack, btw, the fixed parts that I'm proposing in the pipeline, are mostly taken from ovs firewall itself | 14:38 |
| ajo_ | all of them, in fact :) | 14:38 |
| ihrachys | anything more to cover? amotoki, wanna do the client update? | 14:38 |
| amotoki | re client, we are reviewing the initial OSC plugin support: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/309587/ it seems close to merge. | 14:38 |
| amotoki | once it is merged, we will enable OSC plugin gate in the openstack client side. | 14:39 |
| amotoki | in addition, I am preparing a devref on command namespaces in neutron osc plugin. | 14:39 |
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| amotoki | we see dynamic-routing folks are active to implement osc plugin commands. we will support them. | 14:40 |
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| amotoki | that's the update. in the summit, we agree that we have the osc transition status in our meeting. | 14:41 |
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| ihrachys | amotoki: good progress | 14:41 |
| amotoki | I will add a topic to the meeting agenda after the meeting. | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | amotoki: yeah, please update the agenda, I missed that point. | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | thanks | 14:41 |
| dasm | so maybe i'll give status about keystone v3. | 14:41 |
| ihrachys | dasm: please do | 14:42 |
| dasm | first patch for neutronclient was sent yesterday: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320090/ | 14:42 |
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| dasm | i noticed errors on nova, because made wrong assumption. will update it today | 14:42 |
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| HoloIRCUser2 | amotoki: post this, would lbaas etc. be enabled as plugin? | 14:42 |
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| dasm | that's all for now in keystone v3 topic | 14:43 |
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| amotoki | HoloIRCUser2: yes. all commands related to advanced services will go to the OSC plugin way. | 14:43 |
| ihrachys | thanks dasm for the update. | 14:43 |
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| HoloIRCUser2 | amotoki: okay, great.... | 14:43 |
| * ihrachys notes we experience netsplit | 14:44 | |
| ihrachys | ok, I guess that's all we have for today. | 14:44 |
| ihrachys | keep up the good work folks! | 14:45 |
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| ihrachys | #endmeeting | 14:45 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 14:45 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 14:45:05 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-05-24-14.01.html | 14:45 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-05-24-14.01.txt | 14:45 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/networking/2016/networking.2016-05-24-14.01.log.html | 14:45 |
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| yamamoto | bye | 14:45 |
| hichihar_ | bye | 14:45 |
| * ihrachys is glad openstack bot is on my side of the split | 14:45 | |
| ihrachys | ciao | 14:45 |
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| dasm | o/ | 14:47 |
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| carl_baldwin | Hi. Turns out I can't make the meeting today. I will send something to the mailing list. | 14:59 |
| xiaohhui | ok | 14:59 |
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| HoloIRCUser3 | Hi | 15:01 |
| blogan | carl_baldwin: :( | 15:01 |
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| HoloIRCUser3 | And to think I joined the meeting this time .... | 15:01 |
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| mlavalle | #startmeeting Routed Networks | 15:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 15:02:02 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is mlavalle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:02 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'routed_networks' | 15:02 |
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| xiaohhui | So we will still have the meeting, right? | 15:02 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | M sorry my nick isn't changing | 15:02 |
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| mlavalle | Carl had an unexpected meeting | 15:03 |
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| xiaohhui | Let's have the sync up | 15:03 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui, blogan: carl_baldwin has an unexpected meeting. He won't be able to make it to this one | 15:03 |
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| blogan | mlavalle: alrighty | 15:04 |
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| mlavalle | xiaohhui, blogan: we can definetely have the meeting today ourselves | 15:04 |
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| xiaohhui | ok | 15:04 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | Count me in as well mlavalle (it's reedip here) | 15:04 |
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| jschwarz | \o/ | 15:05 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui, blogan: Carl is going to send a message to the ML, proposing to do an email update | 15:05 |
| blogan | HoloIRCUser3: interesting name reedip | 15:05 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | Its from an App on the fone | 15:06 |
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| xiaohhui | reedip: are you still working on this patch https://review.openstack.org/304647 | 15:06 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui, blogan, HoloIRCUser3, jschwarz: but we can go on here.... | 15:06 |
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| HoloIRCUser3 | Stupid app doesn't let me change the NICK | 15:06 |
| mlavalle | #topic Announcements | 15:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:06 | |
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| blogan | mlavalle: ok lets do it | 15:06 |
| blogan | HoloIRCUser3: sounds like a limited app :) | 15:06 |
| mlavalle | Keep in mind that Newton-1 is a little more than a week ago | 15:06 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | xiaohhui : I will start from tomorrow... I shifted from Japan to India in between the Austin Summit so my whole work was haywired | 15:07 |
| mlavalle | Any other announcements from the team? | 15:07 |
| mlavalle | If not, let's move on... | 15:08 |
| mlavalle | #topic Progress Reports | 15:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Progress Reports (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:08 | |
| mlavalle | As I said earlier, carl_baldwin is going to send his progress report to the ML. So, let's start with DHCP | 15:09 |
| mlavalle | blogan: you are up | 15:09 |
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| blogan | so I've per the ML thread I reworked the scheduling a bit back to where I initially had it | 15:10 |
| blogan | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311931/ | 15:10 |
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| blogan | it's still a wip and its not pretty and it still needs tests but i ddidn't want to write tests until the direction is solidified | 15:11 |
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| blogan | the not pretty part is because we need to bind a dchp agent to a segment ONLY when segment's exist, otherwise we need to do it by the network. however, the base scheduler and base resource filter's interface don't expect that | 15:12 |
| blogan | so that interface doesn't work in this case, and if i change that interface it'll probably break out of tree schedulers like bgp | 15:13 |
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| blogan | its a very hairy problem | 15:13 |
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| mlavalle | blogan: do you need any help? | 15:14 |
| blogan | in the meantime ive been working on the agent side of things, to make it segment aware, and that is definitely shaping up to be a large effort | 15:14 |
| blogan | mlavalle: just help in the sense of needing some ideas on how to solve that particular issue | 15:14 |
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| mlavalle | blogan: post ideas in the reviw? | 15:15 |
| mlavalle | review^^^ | 15:15 |
| blogan | mlavalle: yeah, that'd be good | 15:15 |
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| mlavalle | blogan: I will take a look later today | 15:16 |
| blogan | ill comment where the ugliness is | 15:16 |
| blogan | on the review | 15:16 |
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| jschwarz | will also take a look at it tomorrow | 15:16 |
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| mlavalle | anything else blogan? | 15:18 |
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| blogan | mlavalle: nope that's it for now, just want to reiterate the agent side of it will be more work than I expected nad probably any of us expected :) | 15:19 |
| mlavalle | blogan: will you need help with that piece? | 15:19 |
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| blogan | mlavalle: I can probably break the tasks up into chunks so that other's can take them if they want, otherwise i can chip away at it | 15:21 |
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| mlavalle | ok | 15:21 |
| mlavalle | let's move on | 15:21 |
| blogan | thanks mlavalle | 15:21 |
| mlavalle | #topic Host Segments mappping | 15:21 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Host Segments mappping (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:21 | |
| mlavalle | ON this subject we made great progress last wekk | 15:22 |
| mlavalle | last week^^^ | 15:22 |
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| xiaohhui | great! | 15:22 |
| mlavalle | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285548/ got +2ed by carl_baldwin and +1ed by xiaohhui . Thanks for all the help with reviews | 15:23 |
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| mlavalle | after xiaohhui rechecked it last night, some test cases in neutron.tests.unit.agent.test_securitygroups_rpc started failing | 15:24 |
| xiaohhui | I think it has been fixed | 15:24 |
| xiaohhui | just a rebase can resolve it | 15:24 |
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| mlavalle | xiaohhui: great, thanks for saving me some research time. I was so frustrated a few minutes ago :-) | 15:25 |
| blogan | hopefully there aren't conflicts | 15:25 |
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| mlavalle | so moving on... | 15:25 |
| mlavalle | #topic Enable Create / Delete of Segments on Existing Network in ML2 | 15:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Enable Create / Delete of Segments on Existing Network in ML2 (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:26 | |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui: this is you, right? | 15:26 |
| xiaohhui | yeah | 15:26 |
| xiaohhui | The code is ready for review | 15:26 |
| xiaohhui | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317358 | 15:26 |
| xiaohhui | I hope you guys can reiview it | 15:27 |
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| mlavalle | yeah will take a look today also | 15:27 |
| mlavalle | thanks for pushing this forward.... anything else on this topic? | 15:27 |
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| xiaohhui | I think there is nothing else | 15:28 |
| mlavalle | since xiaohhui has the mike already... | 15:28 |
| mlavalle | #topic OVN plugin | 15:28 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OVN plugin (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:28 | |
| xiaohhui | The patch from richard has been merged. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/312705/ | 15:29 |
| xiaohhui | (Convert core plugin to ML2 mechanism driver) | 15:29 |
| xiaohhui | But the ovn part is still no progress, I think it would be better to move on, once the ml2 code has settled. | 15:30 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui: ok | 15:30 |
| xiaohhui | Maybe we can update the host / segment mapping for ovn, once your patch has been merged. | 15:30 |
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| xiaohhui | There is a wip patch for it, I will re-evaluate it this week. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/302623/ | 15:31 |
| mlavalle | xiaohhui: yeah, I expect that to merge any time soon.... especially after your big help of a few minutes ago ;-) | 15:31 |
| xiaohhui | :) | 15:32 |
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| mlavalle | moving on then ... | 15:32 |
| xiaohhui | Nothing else for OVN from me. | 15:32 |
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| mlavalle | #topic Integration with Nova Scheduler | 15:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Integration with Nova Scheduler (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:33 | |
| mlavalle | ON this front, I had a conversation with cdent earlier today | 15:33 |
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| mlavalle | He is implementing the code for generic resource pools in Nova | 15:34 |
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| mlavalle | There are several patches for this. The top of the stack is here: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/293104/ | 15:34 |
| mlavalle | I intend to follow this work closely and help with reviews where I can | 15:35 |
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| mlavalle | Also johnthetubaguy has pushed revisions to https://review.openstack.org/#/c/313001 | 15:35 |
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| mlavalle | Maybe he cares to comment about it? | 15:35 |
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| mlavalle | This is the refactoring of 'allocate_for_instance' in Nova compute that allocates network resources for instances | 15:36 |
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| mlavalle | it is being refactored, some pieces to the conductor, pre-scheduling, so segments data con be used in the scheduling decision | 15:37 |
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| mlavalle | In any case I intend to review that spec and help where I can | 15:37 |
| mlavalle | Finally, I attended yesterday's Nova Scheduler meeting and reminded people to post reviews for the Routed Networks spec for Nova: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/263898/ | 15:38 |
| blogan | ill review too, more for my own learning though :) | 15:38 |
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| mlavalle | Several of them said they are going to review it: johnthetubaguy, bauzas, edleafe | 15:39 |
| mlavalle | that's it for this week on this topic | 15:39 |
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| mlavalle | #topic L2 Adjacency Extension | 15:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "L2 Adjacency Extension (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:40 | |
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| mlavalle | HoloIRCUser3: are you still woking on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304647/? | 15:40 |
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| HoloIRCUser3 | Mlavalle:yeah, will restart it tomorrow | 15:41 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | Sorry for the delay | 15:42 |
| mlavalle | to begin with, it needs a rebase :-) | 15:42 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | I shifted from Japan to India | 15:42 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | So things have been a bit messy for now | 15:42 |
| mlavalle | ahhh. How do you like being back in the Mother Land? | 15:42 |
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| HoloIRCUser3 | Not different... having stayed almost a year in Japan makes me feel both are pretty good places to live and love... | 15:43 |
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| mlavalle | :-) | 15:43 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | :) thanks for asking though... | 15:43 |
| mlavalle | any thing else on this topic? | 15:43 |
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| mlavalle | if not, let's move on... | 15:44 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | Not from my end for now... wll be back in the meeting tomorrow... | 15:44 |
| mlavalle | #topic Client | 15:44 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Client (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:44 | |
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| mlavalle | rtheis: anything to report on client for Routed Networks? | 15:45 |
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| xiaohhui | richard mentioned to me yesterday that he may be not able to attend this meeting. | 15:45 |
| rtheis | back from the dentist just in time | 15:45 |
| rtheis | we have SDK patch merged for network segments | 15:45 |
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| mlavalle | rtheis: lol.... you are not in pain right? | 15:45 |
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| rtheis | mlavalle: no pain, just a cleaning today | 15:46 |
| HoloIRCUser3 | rtheis: lucky u... I connected via the fone while driving( now home) | 15:46 |
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| rtheis | I am going to rebase the CLI patch set and then it should be ready | 15:46 |
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| * mlavalle stalled enough, so rtheis could make his report on time | 15:47 | |
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| rtheis | nothing else from me on client | 15:47 |
| mlavalle | rtheis: thanks for the status report | 15:48 |
| rtheis | yw | 15:48 |
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| mlavalle | moving on... | 15:48 |
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| mlavalle | #topic Open Agenda | 15:48 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Agenda (Meeting topic: Routed Networks)" | 15:48 | |
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| mlavalle | did I miss anyone? | 15:48 |
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| mlavalle | any other topics to bring to the team? | 15:49 |
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| mlavalle | In that case, we will return 10 minutes to everybody's agenda | 15:50 |
| mlavalle | Thanks for attending and for your reports ! | 15:50 |
| mlavalle | #endmeeting | 15:50 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 15:50 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 15:50:43 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 15:50 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/routed_networks/2016/routed_networks.2016-05-24-15.02.html | 15:50 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/routed_networks/2016/routed_networks.2016-05-24-15.02.txt | 15:50 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/routed_networks/2016/routed_networks.2016-05-24-15.02.log.html | 15:50 |
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| notmorgan | ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, lhcheng, marekd, MaxPC, morgan, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tjcocozz, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek | 17:58 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 17:58 |
| amakarov | o/ | 17:58 |
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| lhcheng | o/ | 17:58 |
| lbragstad | o/ | 17:58 |
| roxanaghe__ | \o | 17:58 |
| crinkle | o/ | 17:59 |
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| raildo | \o | 18:00 |
| knikolla | o/ | 18:00 |
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| notmorgan | i.. don't think we have quorum of cores. | 18:00 |
| gyee | \o | 18:00 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: you stated it? | 18:00 |
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| notmorgan | jamielennox: not yet, was waiting for folks to show up | 18:00 |
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| bknudson | hi | 18:00 |
| gagehugo | yo | 18:00 |
| jaugustine | o/ | 18:00 |
| henrynash | hi | 18:01 |
| notmorgan | i think we have enough now. | 18:01 |
| jamielennox | #startmeeting keystone | 18:01 |
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| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 18:01:12 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is jamielennox. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'keystone' | 18:01 |
| jamielennox | :) | 18:01 |
| dstanek | ahoy | 18:01 |
| jamielennox | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/KeystoneMeeting | 18:01 |
| hogepodge | o/ | 18:01 |
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| rderose | o/ | 18:02 |
| gagehugo | /o/ | 18:02 |
| jaugustine | \o\ | 18:02 |
| jaugustine | haha | 18:02 |
| jamielennox | ok, as most people are probably aware of by now, stevemar recently had a baby boy and is on leave for the next couple of weeks | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | whoop whoop! | 18:02 |
| lbragstad | when does he start reviewing code? | 18:02 |
| henrynash | rattle rattle | 18:02 |
| notmorgan | lbragstad: hehe | 18:02 |
| henrynash | who says he isn’t | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | in reality this means he'll proabably be around, but in the mean time the cores will generally be able to sort out most things for him | 18:03 |
| breton_ | o/ | 18:03 |
| topol | o/ | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | anything particular come find me or notmorgan | 18:03 |
| jamielennox | and of course - congrats stevemar | 18:03 |
| dstanek | jamielennox: ++ | 18:03 |
| amakarov | +1 | 18:03 |
| topol | +++ | 18:04 |
| gagehugo | +1 | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: lets start w/ the etherpad thing | 18:04 |
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| notmorgan | jamielennox: then we can continue w/ spec freeze etc. | 18:04 |
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| jamielennox | #topic Meeting Agenda Moving to Etherpad? | 18:04 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Meeting Agenda Moving to Etherpad? (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:04 | |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: ok then | 18:04 |
| notmorgan | Talked with steve and a few others | 18:04 |
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| notmorgan | people cannot edit the wiki because no new accounts are allowed | 18:05 |
| notmorgan | as a trial i created an etherpad | 18:05 |
| notmorgan | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:05 |
| raildo | notmorgan: ++ for etherpad | 18:05 |
| notmorgan | instead of the wiki we can use the etherpad for meetings. any issues/concerns/love the ideas? | 18:05 |
| gyee | all love here | 18:05 |
| dstanek | works for me | 18:05 |
| lbragstad | i'm indifferent - either works for me | 18:05 |
| rodrigods | just put the etherpad URL in the wiki | 18:05 |
| notmorgan | rodrigods: that is the plan. | 18:06 |
| topol | works | 18:06 |
| bknudson | makes sense since editing the wiki is a pain | 18:06 |
| lbragstad | yes | 18:06 |
| knikolla | ++ for etherpad, with link in wiki | 18:06 |
| breton_ | i wonder how good it will work in a year | 18:06 |
| henrynash | works for me (already edited it!) | 18:06 |
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| jamielennox | yea, i'm not too worried either way - works if we can't et people accessing the wiki | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | ok lets start going from the etherpad then | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | i've added the spec freeze bit to it | 18:06 |
| notmorgan | and i'l update the wiki to reference more prominently after this meeting | 18:06 |
| jamielennox | #action notmorgan fix the wiki keystonemeeting links to point to the new meeting etherpad | 18:07 |
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| jamielennox | hmm, no meetbot confirmations - hope i didn't screw this up | 18:07 |
| notmorgan | you don't get them on #link or action | 18:07 |
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| jamielennox | ah | 18:08 |
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| jamielennox | #topic Spec proposal freeze is next week, couple of weeks longer for spec freeze. | 18:08 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Spec proposal freeze is next week, couple of weeks longer for spec freeze. (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:08 | |
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| jamielennox | next week is spec proposal freeze | 18:08 |
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| jamielennox | for anyone unfamiliar this means that any specs you want to land in newton have to be at least proposed by then | 18:08 |
| jamielennox | we then have a few weeks before specs have to be actually approved to land in newton | 18:09 |
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| jamielennox | so if you're thinking of still proposing something get a wriggle on | 18:09 |
| breton_ | is next week 30-5? | 18:09 |
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| notmorgan | breton_: yes | 18:09 |
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| * topol wriggle? I need an Australian dictionary | 18:09 | |
| henrynash | “get a wriggle on” | 18:09 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: i assume it's the end of the week? | 18:09 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: yes by end of the week is usually what we aim for | 18:10 |
| breton_ | so, will it be unfrozen in 30-5? or frozen on the 30th? | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | breton_: after the week | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | so after friday | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | erm.. wait no. | 18:10 |
| lbragstad | it will be frozen after the 5th, right? | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | the spec proposal freeze happens after friday | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | th... 4th? | 18:10 |
| notmorgan | 3rd. | 18:10 |
| breton_ | 3rd | 18:11 |
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| jamielennox | after may 3rd is my understanding | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | yes | 18:11 |
| notmorgan | so a week from this coming friday is your deadline | 18:11 |
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| jamielennox | #topic Keystone Core Sec Updates | 18:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Keystone Core Sec Updates (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:12 | |
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| * notmorgan has a lot of topics. | 18:12 | |
| dstanek | if you're going to be cutting it that close you may want to get moving on it | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | #link https://launchpad.net/~keystone-coresec | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | the keystone core sec team is too large | 18:12 |
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| notmorgan | and has a lot of folks not actively participating | 18:12 |
| notmorgan | i am going to trim this down. | 18:12 |
| breton_ | what is coresec? | 18:12 |
| breton_ | oh, ok. | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | breton_: folks who evaluate embargoed bugs | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | security vulnerabilities | 18:13 |
| lbragstad | I don't think i'm on that list | 18:13 |
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| dstanek | notmorgan: i'm on there, but only occasionally comment - so you can trim me if you need to | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | so, anyone can be on this (does not need to be a core reviewer) | 18:13 |
| gyee | notmorgan, I would like to stay on it | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | but if you're not interested and are on the list please speak up. | 18:13 |
| rodrigods | hmm interesting | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | or if you aren't on the list and are interested... | 18:13 |
| dstanek | i feel bad taking up someone's spot if i can't contribute back enough | 18:13 |
| notmorgan | speak up | 18:13 |
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| notmorgan | i'll conferr with people after the meeting | 18:14 |
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| notmorgan | so think about it | 18:14 |
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| dstanek | it would be nice to somehow still be able to see what's happening though :-( | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | is there a limit to how many people we can have? | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | ideally we should be ~5 people | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | any one can be looped in to view a security bug | 18:14 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan because it's security related? | 18:14 |
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| rderose | notmorgan: I'd be interested | 18:14 |
| notmorgan | this is just the front line group who evaluates IF a bug is really a bvlunerability | 18:14 |
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| notmorgan | think about it, i'll work out who will be on the team after the meeting :) | 18:15 |
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| notmorgan | i can guarantee that stevemar will be staying on that list [as ptl] | 18:15 |
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| notmorgan | ok thats all on that topic. | 18:15 |
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| jamielennox | #topic Reviews! | 18:16 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Reviews! (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:16 | |
| notmorgan | ok | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | so. | 18:16 |
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| breton_ | lets do them? | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | in newton we have been lacking reviews and have a lot of open patches | 18:16 |
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| notmorgan | some can be abandoned, some need rebasing | 18:16 |
| bknudson | http://russellbryant.net/openstack-stats/keystone-reviewers-90.txt | 18:16 |
| henrynash | ok, guilty as charged. C- for Henry | 18:16 |
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| notmorgan | but in short... we have been lacking reviews | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | http://stackalytics.com/?module=keystone-group | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | #link http://stackalytics.com/?module=keystone-group | 18:16 |
| notmorgan | that is specific to newton code | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | russ' only covers avg reviews. | 18:17 |
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| notmorgan | this is a call to action for everyone | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | please review. | 18:17 |
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| notmorgan | cores, non-cores, new folks, etc | 18:17 |
| bknudson | I haven't been able to review so much lately due to changes in the job... hoping to get back to it sometime. | 18:17 |
| henrynash | will do | 18:17 |
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| notmorgan | question things in the patch if you don't understand (-1s for things that look wrong, but no score with questions help too) | 18:17 |
| notmorgan | in short. review. | 18:17 |
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| gyee | getting back on the review horse | 18:18 |
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| knikolla | i’ll start reviewing more, whatever my +1 is worth. | 18:18 |
| bknudson | my reviews seem to mostly be ignored lately anyways | 18:18 |
| * rodrigods have some patches that would love reviews | 18:18 | |
| notmorgan | we are actively keeping an eye on folks who are reviewing, get the code base, etc for new cores fwiw | 18:18 |
| breton_ | that's because i am on vacation | 18:18 |
| breton_ | that's why there are no reviews. | 18:18 |
| stevemar | knikolla: it's worth more than you think -- a good review is a good review, regardless who does it | 18:18 |
| dstanek | i'm guilty of being low in review count - been tied up with capstone, but that's changing in a day or two | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | but everyting does need reviews, a +1 means a lot, a -1 with questions/concerns means a lot | 18:18 |
| breton_ | i'll be back and we'll be good again, relax. | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | a +0 with questions means a lot | 18:18 |
| notmorgan | EVEN if a core already +2'd | 18:19 |
| raildo | I'll review more on this release :) | 18:19 |
| lbragstad | notmorgan ++ | 18:19 |
| jamielennox | /kick stevemar | 18:19 |
| dstanek | knikolla: ideally you find stuff and it gets fixed before a core comes around and -1's it | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | please review. we lean on everyones to make the code base good. | 18:19 |
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| notmorgan | and every review matters. | 18:19 |
| bknudson | the comments along with the review are worth more than the vote. Try out the change and say what you did | 18:19 |
| knikolla | understood, i’ve been mostly commenting with +0 | 18:19 |
| bknudson | check the coverage report and say if everything is covered | 18:19 |
| notmorgan | if you have a concern you don't want to say publically, you can talk to a core.. or me directly | 18:19 |
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| jamielennox | the problem with a lot of +0 is they go unnoticed | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | i'll happily help guide if you're unsure about how to review. | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: we need to fix that. | 18:20 |
| topol | I will put more focus on reviewing as well | 18:20 |
| topol | message heard! | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | i often miss +0 for ages because it doesn't show up as a change in the review list | 18:20 |
| gyee | No Review Left Behind Act | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | cores - please do not ignore +0s. submitters, be sure to look for the +0 | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | just as an aside | 18:20 |
| amakarov | jamielennox, ++ | 18:20 |
| notmorgan | with questions. | 18:20 |
| jamielennox | notmorgan: ok? | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | and if a +0 is being ignored, raise it up to someone :) don't hesitate to point it out if it seems like it is relevant or change the vote to -1 after conferring with a core | 18:21 |
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| notmorgan | jamielennox: yep :) | 18:21 |
| bknudson | submitters should realize that pretty much nothing is going to get merged this release due to lack of reviews. | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | i usually +1 when i have doubts | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | (or just change it to -1 if you feel it is important enough) | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | or a +1 | 18:21 |
| rodrigods | just for the person be able to see | 18:21 |
| dstanek | bknudson: yes. so they should be reviewing too! | 18:21 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: exactlyu | 18:22 |
| * notmorgan has one more short topic. | 18:22 | |
| jamielennox | #topic Good News Everbody! | 18:22 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Good News Everbody! (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:22 | |
| notmorgan | so. i've proxied for steve (and talked with him) | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | and conferred with the cores. | 18:22 |
| notmorgan | Please welcome rodrigods as the newest member of the core team. | 18:22 |
| henrynash | woot woot! | 18:23 |
| bknudson | congrats to rodrigods | 18:23 |
| lbragstad | rodrigods congrats! | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | o/ | 18:23 |
| raildo | YAY congrats rodrigods! | 18:23 |
| gyee | rodrigods, congrats! | 18:23 |
| amakarov | rodrigods, congratulations! | 18:23 |
| raildo | :D | 18:23 |
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| knikolla | rodrigods: congrats! | 18:23 |
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| notmorgan | i will send an email out after the meeting and get you added to the gerrit group. | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | well done rodrigods | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | will i be able to +A all my code? | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | :) | 18:23 |
| notmorgan | rodrigods: lol. | 18:23 |
| rodrigods | thank you all | 18:23 |
| bknudson | thanks for all your work on keystone. | 18:23 |
| henrynash | rodigods: instant demotion | 18:23 |
| raildo | lol | 18:23 |
| rderose | rodrigods: congrats!!! | 18:23 |
| jamielennox | shortest core stint award goes to | 18:23 |
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| notmorgan | i want to reiterate that rodrigods has shown understanding of the code base and quality reviews and code. | 18:23 |
| gagehugo | grats! | 18:23 |
| gyee | s/demo/demoli/ | 18:23 |
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| notmorgan | we are continuing to look for other reviewers/contributors to include in the core group. | 18:24 |
| rodrigods | thanks! and also for the mentoring since i've joined the openstack community | 18:24 |
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| notmorgan | #action notmorgan to send email and add rodrigods to core group after meeting | 18:24 |
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| dstanek | rodrigods: congrats | 18:24 |
| jamielennox | rodrigods: thanks for sticking in there and everything you've done | 18:24 |
| topol | CONGRATULATIONS rodrigods! Very well deserved! | 18:25 |
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| rodrigods | really glad to be part of the core team, will try to work harder | 18:25 |
| dolphm | rodrigods: /salute | 18:26 |
| notmorgan | rodrigods: you now have +2/+A rights on the keystone repositories. | 18:26 |
| rodrigods | awesome :) | 18:26 |
| jamielennox | #topic Creating new versions of keystone component drivers (e.g. V8, V9 etc.) | 18:26 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Creating new versions of keystone component drivers (e.g. V8, V9 etc.) (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:26 | |
| henrynash | ok | 18:26 |
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| jamielennox | go go henrynash! | 18:26 |
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| bknudson | the suspense... | 18:27 |
| henrynash | so todate, every time we create a new version of a driver, we archive off an example driver (e.g. SQL) so that we can test we haev not broken teh old interface | 18:27 |
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| henrynash | some have suggest this is a poor way of doing it.... | 18:27 |
| henrynash | …but so far I don’t have any otehr ideas | 18:28 |
| bknudson | I guess the old driver is in git already | 18:28 |
| bknudson | so maybe check out an old keystone? | 18:28 |
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| gyee | microversioned keystone drivers :-) | 18:29 |
| henrynash | bknudson: so we usual want to substitute an individual driver | 18:29 |
| bknudson | y, check out only that driver. | 18:29 |
| bknudson | check out keystone to a new directory and pull out the driver. | 18:29 |
| knikolla | check out only that specific driver from git | 18:29 |
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| henrynash | we used to so this for client testing, I think…but we moved away form it | 18:29 |
| bknudson | or maybe you can just check out a file. | 18:29 |
| bknudson | that was in a different repo | 18:30 |
| jamielennox | do we expect people to subclass the driver class directly or duck type it? | 18:30 |
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| bknudson | you could do git checkout stable/master -- keystone/identity/backend/sql.py | 18:30 |
| henrynash | no | 18:30 |
| henrynash | (to jamie) | 18:30 |
| bknudson | they have to subclass since it's abc. | 18:30 |
| bknudson | this is why abc is a bad idea in python | 18:30 |
| dstanek | the issue is that we don't want to carry an extra copy of the backend? | 18:30 |
| henrynash | we only support the interface, we don’t promise they can subclass our driver and we’ll maintin the code otehyc an continue to subclass | 18:30 |
| amakarov | henrynash, is there a problem description somewhere? | 18:31 |
| henrynash | just ayiojng objecting in: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/305315/ | 18:31 |
| bknudson | I don't mind keeping a copy in the tests, so not sure what the complaints are. | 18:31 |
| dstanek | bknudson: ++ | 18:31 |
| dstanek | i dont | 18:31 |
| henrynash | this is teh current example: we just need to copy the driver so we can test | 18:31 |
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| henrynash | ayoung: you about? | 18:32 |
| shaleh | so where is ayoung to provide an alternative since he complained? | 18:32 |
| bknudson | it's not 400 lines that we have to maintain | 18:32 |
| dstanek | like having to rely on checking out individual files | 18:32 |
| amakarov | henrynash, can we make subsequent interfaces inherited? | 18:32 |
| henrynash | ok, so I’ll follow up with ayoung and ask him to calrify his concern and propose an alternative if he feels striongly about it | 18:32 |
| amakarov | this will save a lot of copying | 18:33 |
| bknudson | the copy is so that we can test with an old implementation | 18:33 |
| bknudson | the interface is already inherited | 18:33 |
| henrynash | bknudson: ++ | 18:33 |
| jamielennox | i think we need to maintain those tests, and we need to maintain the symbols so that anyone who subclassed it doesn't get broken immediately | 18:33 |
| dstanek | amakarov: it's the copying of the backend | 18:34 |
| amakarov | bknudson, I'm about "class IdentityDriverV9(IdentityDriverV8)" | 18:34 |
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| bknudson | no, we decided to do an adapter | 18:35 |
| amakarov | bknudson, well, then we need all the code | 18:35 |
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| henrynash | amakarov: we wanted to make sure the new driver & interface was as clean as possible…pushing the ugliness into the adaptor | 18:35 |
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| henrynash | jamielennox: ok, think we ar done on this one | 18:36 |
| jamielennox | #topic Microversioning of the Identity API | 18:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Microversioning of the Identity API (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:36 | |
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| henrynash | damn. me again | 18:36 |
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| henrynash | ok, so we have at least one hcnage that requires break api | 18:37 |
| henrynash | (hierarchial naming)... | 18:37 |
| henrynash | …and the push back from several was that we should really do microversioning now for teh Idenityt API | 18:37 |
| henrynash | so this is now proposed: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/315180/ | 18:37 |
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| henrynash | this is basically teh same approach nova uses, adapted for keystone | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | this is an API breaking change - the options are: | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | 1) Microversions (like nova) | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | 2) Don't break the API and not change this | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | 3) API V4 | 18:38 |
| notmorgan | in order of my preference [assuming this is something we want] | 18:39 |
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| henrynash | I re-wrote the origional spec published by ayoung to docuemtn all teh use cases etc and make this a compelte sepc (rather than just refer to the nova spec) | 18:39 |
| raildo | API v4, please no :( | 18:39 |
| jamielennox | so regards the hierarchical naming (main cause for this) - is that something we can solve with an api version change? it seems like a modelling problem | 18:39 |
| bknudson | considering how hard it is to get other projects to even use current features I'd vote for don't break the api. | 18:39 |
| gyee | v4 is least disruptive | 18:39 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: why do we need this relaxed naming? | 18:39 |
| ayoung | I'm here | 18:40 |
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| notmorgan | is there a real use case we're missing that uniqueness per domain is unacceptable? | 18:40 |
| notmorgan | since domains are not hierarchical | 18:40 |
| bknudson | can we put the new stuff on a different path (make it a different resource)? | 18:40 |
| * samueldmq reads up | 18:40 | |
| amakarov | jamielennox, policy enforcement for ex. | 18:40 |
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| amakarov | jamielennox, we can do it in keystone for RBAC3 | 18:40 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: the issue is projects would leak through into the old api...or you'd need a new api to see the project? | 18:40 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: so I think there are two things here: we can argue whether we can get away with naming uniquenss or not…..but I think it is better we agree to our approach of hwo we modify the API when we need to….and I’m sure we will need to | 18:41 |
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| dstanek | bknudson: that's what i would vote for. new/different API resources | 18:41 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: also it's really an /auth request | 18:41 |
| ayoung | I don't see why relaxing a rule is breaking the contract, but I'm not going to fight this fight. If microversions buy us things elsewhere, and this is a good place to introduce them,lets do it | 18:41 |
| raildo | notmorgan: project name is unique in a domain, we can't have a parent and a subproject with the same name | 18:41 |
| bknudson | how can we prevent leaking to the old api in any case? | 18:41 |
| notmorgan | raildo: i don't see that as a problem | 18:41 |
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| jamielennox | it's not just a parent problem | 18:42 |
| raildo | notmorgan: we can have something like, coke->dev and pepsi->dev | 18:42 |
| notmorgan | raildo: so make coke_domain and pepsi_domain | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | an accounting project and a engineering project both want to create ProjectX | 18:42 |
| jamielennox | that name is only unique via the path | 18:42 |
| henrynash | so on the specific naming issue, I think it is untennable that as hiearchies grow, that all leaves/nodes have to be unique | 18:42 |
| notmorgan | jamielennox: and i'm going to argue that accounting should be a domain and engineering should be. | 18:42 |
| raildo | notmorgan: yes, but this doesn't work for reseller, since we can create subprojects acting as domains | 18:42 |
| raildo | cant* | 18:43 |
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| notmorgan | raildo: again, i'm back to domains. | 18:43 |
| dstanek | henrynash: so what part of the API is being broken? just getting error codes (4xx) where we used to get success (2xx)? | 18:43 |
| notmorgan | everything still works with a new domain. | 18:43 |
| notmorgan | inc. "reseller" concepts. | 18:44 |
| henrynash | notmorgan, jamielennox: I guess I am more interested in whether we think we must be able to break teh API in teh future, and if so, how shoudl we do it.... | 18:44 |
| notmorgan | add a domain to the account. | 18:44 |
| notmorgan | henrynash: microversions or V4 | 18:44 |
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| notmorgan | henrynash: and i'm fine with either | 18:44 |
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| gyee | auth is part of defcore, so we have to be mindful about interop | 18:44 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: given that other projects are adopting microversions, i'd say we would do that - but i would like to be left with absolutely no other choice | 18:44 |
| ayoung | lets not V4 | 18:44 |
| notmorgan | though microversions seems to be the pattern for openstack | 18:44 |
| ayoung | micro changes are microversions. A big version jump is just going to be ignored | 18:45 |
| jamielennox | yea, particularly around the auth apis | 18:45 |
| henrynash | dtsanek: teh specific problem is that before thsi proposed change, teh proejct scope of “test” would work, but mioght now aftewards, since “test” is not unqiue and /“dev/test” would be requied | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | if we did a big api version jump, we'd need to extract auth to /auth | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | not /<version>/auth | 18:45 |
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| jamielennox | notmorgan: ++ to that anyway | 18:45 |
| ayoung | I'm not sure we are not just making busywork for ourselves, but if this is the cautious approach, it probably is the better way to go | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | that whole tie auth to the CRUD api is what caused us so much headache in api verion adoption | 18:45 |
| notmorgan | anyway | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | ayoung: it is the conservative approach | 18:46 |
| notmorgan | and keystone frankly needs to err to the conservative side | 18:46 |
| knikolla | notmorgan: ++ | 18:46 |
| henrynash | notmorgan: I have to agree with you | 18:46 |
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| jamielennox | i'm also wondering if we have a real world request for this yet or are looking at upcoming pain points? | 18:47 |
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| jamielennox | given the adoption of hierarchies so far.. | 18:47 |
| henrynash | jamielennox: so mine is the only one I knwo of so far….although if we do the work and never incremenent teh microversion number, nothing breaks anywya | 18:47 |
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| bknudson | nova used microversions for all sorts of fixes | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | jamielennox, we have requests | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | i'll argue that almost everything that is desired with reseller could be done with domains. | 18:48 |
| bknudson | useful ones like better validation of user input | 18:48 |
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| notmorgan | on the topic of hierarchies. | 18:48 |
| henrynash | bknudson: agreed, and I plan to copy their approach | 18:48 |
| notmorgan | bknudson: ++ | 18:48 |
| ayoung | HMT is limited by other projects, but we want to keep it that way, and stay ahead of the demand | 18:48 |
| dstanek | notmorgan: ++ | 18:48 |
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| ayoung | we had a customer ask about it. Horizon support needs to come up | 18:49 |
| knikolla | also with microchanges we might be able to have better adoption of our newer apis | 18:49 |
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| jamielennox | 2-3 more minutes so we can leave time for the last topic | 18:49 |
| bknudson | we've seen that better adoption only comes when we spend our time in the other projects | 18:49 |
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| henrynash | ok, so review the spec….and we’ll go from there | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | bknudson: ++ no one else does auth work | 18:50 |
| jamielennox | henrynash: my view would be microversions is the answer, but only when we're really sure what we want to solve with it | 18:50 |
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| jamielennox | so i'd prefer to discuss the hierarchical naming problem | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | it can be useful for other stuff | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | not only HMT | 18:50 |
| rodrigods | HMT was the trigger, but... | 18:50 |
| knikolla | jamielennox: the use cases will come once it’s there | 18:51 |
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| dstanek | i think that in a way microversions are an API/architecture smell | 18:51 |
| dstanek | maybe a necessary one? | 18:51 |
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| jamielennox | rodrigods: it can, but we've kept our api stable for a while now | 18:51 |
| jamielennox | dstanek: ++ | 18:51 |
| ayoung | dstanek, part of the issue is that Keystone is not really a micros service | 18:51 |
| bknudson | if we could design things perfectly from the beginning we wouldn't need it, but we're not perfect. | 18:51 |
| ayoung | its more of just a service, not a macro one. THat would be nova | 18:51 |
| rodrigods | bknudson, ++ | 18:51 |
| dstanek | even in nova i'd argue that it's not great architecture | 18:52 |
| ayoung | nova is a macros service | 18:52 |
| ayoung | its like 15 things | 18:52 |
| ayoung | Keysteon is about 5 | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | ok, review spec | 18:52 |
| bknudson | I'm surprised every time someone says openstack servers are microservices. | 18:52 |
| henrynash | jamielennox: so the spec that is up: (there are two alternatives): https://review.openstack.org/#/c/310048/ and https://review.openstack.org/#/c/315180/ | 18:52 |
| dstanek | bknudson: or it we understood hypertext | 18:52 |
| ayoung | auth, id & federation, assignment, resource, policy, | 18:52 |
| jamielennox | #topic Multiple datacenters | 18:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Multiple datacenters (Meeting topic: keystone)" | 18:52 | |
| ayoung | each could and should be separate if we were serious about microservies | 18:52 |
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| ayoung | Ah | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | amakarov: was hoping to give you a bit more time there, sorry | 18:53 |
| ayoung | jamielennox, beyond Fernet? | 18:53 |
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| agrebennikov | are you guys going to wrap up and skip this topic? | 18:53 |
| dstanek | ayoung: microservices is really abot team size. so if the same team manages all the microservices then splitting won't matter | 18:53 |
| ayoung | we should get a best practice written up about Fernet key rotation | 18:53 |
| jamielennox | amakarov: or i can leave it for next week and put you in first instead? | 18:53 |
| amakarov | jamielennox, I think 5 min is anough for now | 18:54 |
| amakarov | agrebennikov is here | 18:54 |
| amakarov | And the case is described in etherpad | 18:54 |
| agrebennikov | so I tried to explain in details what I need | 18:54 |
| agrebennikov | and this is actually a very common request from the customer | 18:54 |
| shaleh | link to pad? | 18:55 |
| amakarov | I believe last time we agreed that admin CAN specify project IDs, right? | 18:55 |
| jamielennox | so to my mind if you are replicating role ids, project ids and user ids in all regions then you are pretty much replicating the database anyway | 18:55 |
| amakarov | https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting | 18:55 |
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| agrebennikov | jamielennox, no, this is not quite correct | 18:55 |
| agrebennikov | db replication means if you broke it in one place - it gets broken in all others | 18:56 |
| agrebennikov | and we actually had this issue in production cloud | 18:56 |
| shaleh | why is DB replication an issue since there will be few writes? | 18:56 |
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| agrebennikov | that is why the customer decided to get rid of this | 18:56 |
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| shaleh | without writing UUID there is little to break in Keystone DB now | 18:57 |
| agrebennikov | shaleh, because nobody wants to deal with additional instance of db specifically for keystone | 18:57 |
| jamielennox | have you tried the read-only database conenctions for this? because if that doesn't work for this case i'm in big trouble :) | 18:57 |
| dstanek | agrebennikov: so the alternative is to manually do replication? | 18:57 |
| agrebennikov | which has to have different peers than all other dbs | 18:57 |
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| gyee | agrebennikov, I hear ya, LDAP is already replicated | 18:58 |
| agrebennikov | ldap only provides users | 18:58 |
| shaleh | dstanek: a push model on the occasional new user / role / project change would not be too bad. But this is still an additional DB instance | 18:58 |
| lbragstad | ayoung we have something similar to what you're suggesting in the fenret FAQ | 18:58 |
| gyee | and groups | 18:58 |
| shaleh | so I do not see the request | 18:58 |
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| ayoung | agrebennikov, is this essentially "we need to be able to say what the projet Id is" but also for roles and assignments? | 18:59 |
| ayoung | lbragstad, cool. Link? | 18:59 |
| lbragstad | ayoung that document seems like the right place for a fernet best practices | 18:59 |
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| lbragstad | ayoung yeah | 18:59 |
| dstanek | shaleh: i would not want keystone to be responsible for that. dbs are built to do this | 18:59 |
| shaleh | if every region has their own DB, however you want to sync it is your issue. Otherwise, read only calls back to "home" should work. | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | yea, i feel this will grown form project_ids to needing to specify all ids | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | also we've one minute | 18:59 |
| shaleh | dstanek: I am not saying Keytone would drive it | 18:59 |
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| lbragstad | ayoung http://docs.openstack.org/admin-guide/keystone_fernet_token_faq.html | 18:59 |
| dstanek | shaleh: any code even :-) | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | agrebennikov, amakarov: sorry i should have pushed it till next week and given you more time | 18:59 |
| jamielennox | please continue the discussion in #openstack-keystone for now | 19:00 |
| agrebennikov | ayoung, yes please. roles and projects | 19:00 |
| shaleh | amakarov: write more, show the problems. | 19:00 |
| amakarov | agrebennikov, till next week then ^^ | 19:00 |
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| jamielennox | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 19:00:33 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-24-18.01.html | 19:00 |
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| amakarov | jamielennox, I'll email os-dev | 19:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-24-18.01.txt | 19:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-05-24-18.01.log.html | 19:00 |
| agrebennikov | shaleh, do you need 5 pages? ;) | 19:00 |
| ayoung | agrebennikov, I think it is a reasonable request. We've had enough people ask for it | 19:00 |
| fungi | infra team, assemble! | 19:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 19:00 |
| nibalizer | o/ | 19:00 |
| ayoung | it should not be the norm | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | /go/ | 19:00 |
| fungi | today's topics are brought to you by waynr, notmorgan, puiterwijk, and the letter 3 | 19:00 |
| prometheanfire | yo | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | hah | 19:00 |
| pleia2 | o/ | 19:01 |
| notmorgan | o/ | 19:01 |
| crinkle | o/ | 19:01 |
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| puiterwijk | Hi. Thanks, fungi, for the ping | 19:01 |
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| prometheanfire | though I'm not on the team :P | 19:01 |
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| pabelanger | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | prometheanfire: everyone's on the team | 19:01 |
| ianw | o/ | 19:01 |
| fungi | we're a very inclusive bunch | 19:01 |
| bkero | o/ | 19:01 |
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| prometheanfire | fungi: damn, was hoping it was notmyproblem | 19:02 |
| fungi | we | 19:02 |
| fungi | 're everyone's problem | 19:02 |
| fungi | jeblair: clarkb: around? | 19:02 |
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| prometheanfire | ianw: want to talk about the dib changes here? | 19:02 |
| fungi | yolanda's not in channel at the moment | 19:02 |
| prometheanfire | that's what I'm here for | 19:02 |
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| fungi | and mordred's on vacation still this week i think | 19:03 |
| fungi | jhesketh may still be asleep | 19:03 |
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| fungi | well, let's get going | 19:03 |
| fungi | #startmeeting infra | 19:03 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 19:03:29 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:03 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| anteaya | I like the letter 3 | 19:03 |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'infra' | 19:03 |
| zaro | o/ | 19:03 |
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| anteaya | even better than the number 3 | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting | 19:03 |
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| fungi | #topic Announcements | 19:03 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:03 | |
| fungi | #info REMINDER: Gerrit downtime on Friday 2016-06-03 at 20:00 UTC | 19:03 |
| fungi | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-infra/2016-May/004322.html | 19:04 |
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| jeblair | fungi: o/ | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | we still need a change for the openstack-infra/ansible-puppet -> openstack-infra/ansible-role-puppet rename | 19:04 |
| fungi | also worth noting, we're in an ad hoc sprint upgrading a bunch of our servers from ubuntu 12.04 to 14.04 this week | 19:04 |
| pleia2 | not sure who is responsible for that | 19:04 |
| fungi | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/VirtualSprints#Infra_Trusty_Upgrade | 19:04 |
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| fungi | pleia2: mordred added that one to the list, but he may have hoped one of us would fill in the blanks | 19:05 |
| * pleia2 nods | 19:05 | |
| fungi | we can punt on it if there's no change come maintenance time | 19:05 |
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| fungi | #topic Actions from last meeting | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:05 | |
| jeblair | fungi: yes! | 19:05 |
| fungi | #link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-17-19.01.html | 19:05 |
| fungi | jeblair investigate mail filtering by recipient options for infra-root@o.o inbox | 19:05 |
| fungi | what's the option? | 19:05 |
| jeblair | turns out the web thingy has decent mail filtering | 19:06 |
| fungi | oh, as we hoped but dared not expect | 19:06 |
| jeblair | so we can filter by recipient address | 19:06 |
| * anteaya loves when jeblair uses the technical terms | 19:06 | |
| pleia2 | that's helpful | 19:06 |
| fungi | that makes imap a bit easier | 19:06 |
| jeblair | and filter messages into folders | 19:06 |
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| jeblair | so we can continue to use a single storage account, which will make the foundation happy that they don't have to pay for more than one | 19:07 |
| fungi | so we should probably plan to filter recipients for cloud provider accounts into a specific inbox we can all subscribe to | 19:07 |
| pleia2 | wfm | 19:07 |
| jeblair | and we can just check various folders | 19:07 |
| fungi | sounds great | 19:07 |
| jeblair | we can continue to add aliases if we want, or of course, start filtering by from address or other things | 19:07 |
| fungi | any volunteers for implementing the filtering? | 19:08 |
| fungi | and letting us know which inbox(es) is/are high priority? | 19:08 |
| pleia2 | if it can wait until next week, it's probably a good sister's couch task for me to take while I'm east coasting | 19:08 |
| jeblair | the filtering is easily created/modified through the usual webmail interface (so no admin perms needed) (adding aliases requires an admin, of which there are few) | 19:08 |
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| fungi | pleia2: i think there's not a huge rush on it | 19:08 |
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| jeblair | ++ | 19:09 |
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| pleia2 | ok, I'll start taking care of it next wednesday | 19:09 |
| fungi | #action pleia2 set up filtering to direct provider account contact address(es) into a high priority inbox | 19:09 |
| fungi | thanks jeblair, pleia2! | 19:09 |
| fungi | #topic Specs approval | 19:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:09 | |
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| fungi | none new this week | 19:10 |
| fungi | ttx had another update to the task tracker spec | 19:10 |
| anteaya | some good reading there | 19:10 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/314185 | 19:11 |
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| fungi | also docaedo added one for running a less-technical-user-friendly irc front-end | 19:11 |
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| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/319506 | 19:11 |
| docaedo | I did! | 19:11 |
| bkero | docaedo++ | 19:11 |
| pleia2 | cool | 19:11 |
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| fungi | and nibalizer wrote the one about server boot automation he promised at the summit | 19:12 |
| fungi | #link https://review.openstack.org/310948 | 19:12 |
| anteaya | yay promises kept | 19:12 |
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| fungi | #topic Priority Efforts | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| fungi | no updates this week, but i plan to start a thread on the ml to discuss updates to the current priority efforts list | 19:13 |
| fungi | #action fungi start an ml thread revisiting current priority efforts list | 19:13 |
| fungi | #topic Jenkins Job Builder v2 API (waynr) | 19:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Jenkins Job Builder v2 API (waynr) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:13 | |
| fungi | #link https://specs.openstack.org/openstack-infra/infra-specs/specs/jenkins-job-builder_2.0.0-api-changes.html | 19:13 |
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| fungi | oh, he's not in channel | 19:14 |
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| fungi | i'll parrot him from the agenda until he shows up... | 19:15 |
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| fungi | <waynr> Jenkins Job Builder v2 API has been rebased on to JJB master branch and is ready for review | 19:15 |
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| waynr | thanks pleia2 fungi for the reminder | 19:15 |
| fungi | oh, hey! you can take over introducing your topic now ;) | 19:15 |
| waynr | and apologies for the tardiness...i am so scatterbrained today :) | 19:15 |
| waynr | okay, so basically I understand that JJB and the v2 API efforts in particular are not a high priority for openstack-infra | 19:16 |
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| fungi | facilitating your work is still a high priority for me, so let me know what sorts of things you need (branch deletions, tags pushed) and i'm happy to do it | 19:17 |
| waynr | but wanted to bring it up here anyway to make sure I am doing everything I can to make it high visibility since it can be difficult for me also to sustain attention on a project like this for long periods of time (it's also not a huge priority for my team at work, it's mostly my pet/side project) | 19:17 |
| waynr | yeah, the "feature/2.0.0" branch is no longer necessary I think | 19:18 |
| fungi | i'm probably misunderstanding what went on in that feature branch, if you haven't merged it back to master yet | 19:18 |
| waynr | I think we came to the conclusion about a month ago that it would be too difficult to maintain two active branches of development so the 2.x series is what we want to move forward with as the main line of development | 19:19 |
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| fungi | so do you have changes which landed on that branch that you need merged into master before you continue work in the master branch toward the 2.0 release? | 19:19 |
| waynr | nope, nothing was ever merged into the feature/2.0.0 branch | 19:20 |
| waynr | I rebased everything that was targeting it onto master branch over the weekend | 19:20 |
| fungi | oh, got it. so you just have changes proposed against master that haven't landed | 19:20 |
| waynr | yeah, exactly | 19:20 |
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| waynr | so yeah, deleting that feature branch is the next step (I can update the 2.0.0 api spec if necessary to avoid possible confusion about what branch these changes are targeting) | 19:21 |
| fungi | #info Deleted openstack-infra/jenkins-job-builder feature/2.0.x branch which was previously at 245f643522da0236254bb14f055df5cbb571938f | 19:21 |
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| waynr | again, another reason for me to bring up the 2.0.0 API work here is just to increase visibility (maybe someone who sees this discussion will be interested enough to help review :) | 19:22 |
| fungi | from an openstack infra/ci perspective, as long as those changes aren't modifying the xml output by jjb i think we don't have much of a stake in the order in which you merge things. i'd leave that determination to the jjb core reviewers (zaro, electrofelix, zxiiro) | 19:22 |
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| waynr | i might throw this up onto the open discussion section of the meeting periodically if y'all think this is a good way to achieve that visibility goal (otherwise, I am open to alternatives) | 19:23 |
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| waynr | the answer might just be for me to keep pestering the other jjb cores | 19:23 |
| fungi | if the xml comparison ci job indicates a difference, please give me or one of our other admins some heads up and an opportunity to review the results | 19:23 |
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| waynr | oh sure | 19:24 |
| waynr | I'm pretty sure that won't happen though | 19:24 |
| jeblair | we'll probably pin jjb<2.0 for the zuul2.5 ansible launcher, since it uses internal api stuff | 19:24 |
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| jeblair | since our needs there are fairly static, that way we don't impact ability for jjb2 to proceed | 19:24 |
| fungi | yep, as a result i'm mostly happy to give the jjb team autonomy over what's going on there | 19:24 |
| jeblair | (and we can look at unpinning later when it settles) | 19:25 |
| waynr | jeblair: I'd be interested in seeing what parts of the API zuul2.5 is using | 19:25 |
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| waynr | I wonder if it is just jenkins_jobs.cmd.execute(args) | 19:25 |
| jeblair | waynr: i'll point them out to you in channel after meeting; i did have to do a couple things i didn't like, maybe could positively influence jjb2 | 19:26 |
| waynr | (which is what my JJB 1.x wrapper project does) | 19:26 |
| fungi | i think it's more for getting at the internal data structures representing job config data? | 19:26 |
| waynr | oh... in that case I think you'll like some of the API changes I am making! | 19:26 |
| fungi | but yeah, no need to dive into that under this meeting topic | 19:26 |
| fungi | anything else for this? zaro/zxiiro, did you have any input for waynr? | 19:27 |
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| zaro | i'm fine with strategy proposed | 19:27 |
| zxiiro | sounds reasonable to me | 19:28 |
| waynr | so the final thing was just protocol as far as merging changes in a large series such as this...is it fine to merge earlier commits once they are approved even if there is remaining 2.0.0 api work left to do? | 19:28 |
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| waynr | zaro zxiiro the reason I ask this is that if for example someone wanted to get a high priority feature released they wouldn't be able to get it until the first 2.0 release | 19:29 |
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| waynr | (once we've begun merging changes from the jjb-2.0.0-api topic, that is) | 19:29 |
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| fungi | i'll defer to zaro and zxiiro on that as well. the usual concerns are that if you disappear without finishing it then there could be a half-implemented transition worth of technical debt to support or try and unwind again | 19:29 |
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| zaro | yeah, i'm not sure there's a beter alternative though. | 19:30 |
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| fungi | right, every patch series has this inherent risk to varying degrees anyway | 19:31 |
| fungi | so it's more a question of comfort level of the reviewers | 19:31 |
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| fungi | okay, sounds like a bit of agreement around this. thanks waynr, zaro, zxiiro! | 19:32 |
| waynr | cool | 19:32 |
| zaro | waynr: you should probably get feedback from electrofelix though | 19:32 |
| waynr | thanks again fungi, anteaya for reminding me about the meeting! | 19:32 |
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| anteaya | waynr: and pleia2 | 19:33 |
| waynr | zaro: I'll make sure to ping him with a link to this meeting | 19:33 |
| zxiiro | cool. I think electrofelix mentioned we can get high priority patches in a stable release branch too once we start merging 2.x stuff | 19:33 |
| waynr | and pleia2 | 19:33 |
| waynr | anteaya: thanks for the correction! | 19:33 |
| anteaya | :) | 19:33 |
| fungi | #topic OpenID implementation (notmorgan, puiterwijk) | 19:33 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenID implementation (notmorgan, puiterwijk) (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:33 | |
| notmorgan | o/ | 19:33 |
| puiterwijk | I'm here still :) | 19:33 |
| notmorgan | so. simply put this came up in an internal Red Hat meeting. | 19:33 |
| notmorgan | looking for a general idea for the timeline of moving openstackid to ipsilon | 19:34 |
| notmorgan | (desired timeline) | 19:34 |
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| notmorgan | and identifying what was needed, if anything, on the ipsilon side before we could do it. | 19:34 |
| jeblair | smarcet is away for the next 2 weeks i believe | 19:34 |
| notmorgan | aiui ipsilon now supports OIDC as well. | 19:34 |
| puiterwijk | notmorgan: correct. We merged that patch last week, and have submitted certification results (all pass) | 19:35 |
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| fungi | i'm not sure we ever got complete consensus that we would necessarily replace openstackid with ipsilon, though we mighth start using ipsilon for things other than the www.openstack.org site if the foundation developers aren't keen on moving their site off openstackid | 19:35 |
| puiterwijk | So in the next release, which should be end this week, it will be included | 19:35 |
| pleia2 | fungi: ++ | 19:35 |
| jeblair | as the driver for the current openstackid, i think it would be good to involve smarcet in discussions | 19:35 |
| notmorgan | jeblair: ++ | 19:36 |
| jeblair | but perhaps we can continue to lay foundations while he's away | 19:36 |
| notmorgan | fungi: or however we want to do it. | 19:36 |
| fungi | so while it would be preferable to make sure ipsilon can be used to achieve the same things the www site needs from openstackid, i wouldn't want to completely predicate our implementation on them agreeing to stop using openstackid there | 19:36 |
| notmorgan | the only concern i have if we don't replace openstackid.org is we may need a new domain for cookie isolation etc | 19:37 |
| notmorgan | not a huge hurdle | 19:37 |
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| fungi | we have idp.openstackid.org as jeblair's early poc. seems like an okay one to keep using (unless the worry is that a compromise on the current openstackid.org server could be leveraged to steal authentication secrets from ipsilon sessions) | 19:38 |
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| notmorgan | i do want to point out that merging ids later (from a standpoint of registeted IDP) is more of a headache than not. | 19:38 |
| notmorgan | fungi: that is a concern, but i think we're in a boat where that level of compromise is going to get ugly no matter what | 19:38 |
| notmorgan | idp.openstackid.org is sufficient imo | 19:38 |
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| notmorgan | puiterwijk: feel free to disagree with me if you think otherwise :) | 19:39 |
| pleia2 | it would be nice to see zanata move over to ipsilon, they're using them together upstream (in fedora) so that would give us a tested, known pairing there | 19:39 |
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| puiterwijk | notmorgan: that sounds about right to me. Moving is a concern, and the cookies shouldn't be too much worse I'd say | 19:39 |
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| fungi | did we figure out whether we're able to (or even want to) use the same url pattern as openstackid uses for identifiers? | 19:40 |
| notmorgan | fungi: not sure about that. | 19:40 |
| puiterwijk | fungi: as long as you setup the httpd redirects, Ipsilon can handle pretty much any url scheme you want | 19:40 |
| puiterwijk | What are you using now? | 19:40 |
| fungi | for example it gives https://openstackid.org/jeremy.stanley for my openid right now | 19:40 |
| jeblair | fungi: i configured it to use the openstackid scheme for identifiers | 19:40 |
| jeblair | i don't know that we agreed that was *desirable* but i believe it's *possible* :) | 19:41 |
| notmorgan | i do want to say that if we lean on idp.openstackid.org for non-o.o sites, i would advocate moving o.o over to idp.oid.o if we decide to use ipsilon (we can use some httpd things for redirects...but in general) | 19:41 |
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| fungi | i worry that tying the id to a human hane is problematic because humans change their names on occasion (i've brought that up with the openstackid devs more than once) | 19:41 |
| notmorgan | rather than try and merge everything down to the bare-word domain | 19:41 |
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| notmorgan | i would vote for "username" not "human name" | 19:41 |
| fungi | s/hane/name/ | 19:42 |
| notmorgan | as well. | 19:42 |
| puiterwijk | fungi: right. That's why in Fedora we decided to use username as the non-changing ID which is used as identity. | 19:42 |
| notmorgan | it's why almost every IDP does that. | 19:42 |
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| puiterwijk | We use http://puiterwijk.id.fedoraproject.org/ (unfortunately, we started out without https, and switching later is a massive pain) | 19:42 |
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| jeblair | i initially did that so that we could minimize the complexity of changing things that use openstackid to using ipsilon, as well as eventually moving ipsilon from idp.o.o to o.o | 19:42 |
| fungi | i like that. we have some systems which consider username unchangeable once set (e.g., gerrit) so tying them together feels natural | 19:42 |
| notmorgan | fungi: ++ | 19:42 |
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| notmorgan | and i'd be more willing to argue/helpfolks make that change once. | 19:43 |
| puiterwijk | For a better example: https://puiterwijk.id.gnome.org/ :) | 19:43 |
| jeblair | however, we can still accomplish those things with more complexity (like, using a script and a database dump to make the mappings) | 19:43 |
| notmorgan | over trying to deal with usernames. | 19:43 |
| notmorgan | erm humannames | 19:43 |
| notmorgan | so it sounds like come back in a couple weeks and work on the db backend driver bits. | 19:43 |
| notmorgan | ? | 19:43 |
| notmorgan | and start working on details like username vs humanname | 19:44 |
| puiterwijk | Is anything wrong with the db backend driver? (sqlalchemy) | 19:44 |
| puiterwijk | Oh, or did you mean auth db backend? | 19:44 |
| notmorgan | puiterwijk: as long as it's configurable, no issues | 19:44 |
| fungi | i think jeblair already wrote a fairly basic backend db driver to grok the silverstripe user db used by the www site (same db that openstackid.org is looking at) | 19:44 |
| notmorgan | puiterwijk: auth db where the user data is. | 19:44 |
| notmorgan | silverstr... what fungi said | 19:44 |
| jeblair | fungi: yes i did, that's written | 19:44 |
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| puiterwijk | notmorgan: ah, I see :) | 19:44 |
| notmorgan | ok cool. | 19:44 |
| notmorgan | puiterwijk: as long as sql-a can be told to use non-sqlite dbs, we're good (for sessions etc) | 19:45 |
| puiterwijk | notmorgan: yep. I would actually not suggest sqlite for production. We fully support anything that's supported by sqlalchemy | 19:45 |
| fungi | it may need some extending to handle the authorization/group details there (from an oidc/oauth perspective) | 19:45 |
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| jeblair | i ran into some minor speedbumps setting up ipsilon; i think a good thing to work on now might be standing up a server with just the test backend (don't worry about silverstripe yet) and shake out the installation/config bits | 19:46 |
| jeblair | (in our environment) | 19:46 |
| jeblair | i have some very basic puppet standing by as well | 19:46 |
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| fungi | sounds like there was also some work done recently to make sure it's more solid on debian-based distros, and there was talk of finding someone willing to make official debian packages for it? | 19:46 |
| jeblair | so perhaps i should get that into a new puppet module, and then stand up a server | 19:46 |
| puiterwijk | jeblair: for puppet, you might want to use ipsilon-db2conf. That will generate you a configuration file if you prefer to use that over web administration | 19:47 |
| jeblair | puiterwijk: oh cool | 19:47 |
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| puiterwijk | fungi: yeah, I've been testing various parts on Debian, and am now adding test skipping to the test suite so I can actually run the suite on Debian | 19:47 |
| puiterwijk | (there's a few modules that will unfortunately not work on Debian anytime soon like SSSD, but the rest should work just fine) | 19:47 |
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| notmorgan | not super worried about SSSD not working | 19:47 |
| notmorgan | tbh | 19:48 |
| puiterwijk | And yeah, if anyone's interested in helping packaging for Debian, feel free to get in touch. | 19:48 |
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| puiterwijk | notmorgan: yeah, didn't think so. But that's one of the reasons you can't run the test suite right now, because there's no easy way to skip those tests on Debian :) | 19:48 |
| fungi | also, if there's interest, we may have people willing to help get sdist/wheel working so you can publsh releases to pypi too | 19:48 |
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| puiterwijk | fungi: sounds good. If there's anyone interested in doing that, feel free to bring them in touch with me | 19:48 |
| puiterwijk | notmorgan: after I get the test skipping et al in, I plan to add Debian to the list of OS's that need to pass for every patchset to be merged. | 19:49 |
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| fungi | puiterwijk: also you may want to create an account on pypi.python.org and register https://pypi.python.org/pypi/ipsilon so that it doesn't get snapped up by a squatter or something | 19:49 |
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| puiterwijk | I have an account, and that's a good idea | 19:49 |
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| * notmorgan steals it fast :P | 19:50 | |
| notmorgan | def go register it. | 19:50 |
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| puiterwijk | Just did. | 19:50 |
| puiterwijk | Thanks for the hint | 19:51 |
| fungi | okay, anything else we want to cover for now, that doesn't need to wait for smarcet to be back around? | 19:51 |
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| fungi | thanks notmorgan and puiterwijk! | 19:52 |
| fungi | #topic Open discussion | 19:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)" | 19:52 | |
| * notmorgan goes back to lurker mode for a few minutes. | 19:53 | |
| fungi | anybody do anything fun for victoria day/patriots day, or planning something interesting for memorial day? | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | fyi, I'm taking a long memorial day weekend, so I'll be away this Thursday - Tuesday, then working east coast time Wed-Friday | 19:53 |
| fungi | i've been informed i won't be around monday, so that i can get some projects done on the house | 19:53 |
| anteaya | I went for a nice walk yesterday | 19:53 |
| pleia2 | visiting family and moose and eating lobster rolls in Maine :) | 19:53 |
| anteaya | was beautiful | 19:53 |
| anteaya | pleia2: nice | 19:54 |
| jeblair | fungi: i think i will be joining you, in spirit at least. | 19:54 |
| anteaya | fungi: lucky you | 19:54 |
| ianw | promethanfire raised some issues with our project-config dib elements which resulted in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/gentoo-ci | 19:54 |
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| prometheanfire | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/319030/ https://review.openstack.org/#/c/318994/ | 19:54 |
| ianw | so there is some work to do, but i think we can overhaul things to fix up the dependencies there | 19:54 |
| prometheanfire | those are the two reviews that came from that etherpad so far | 19:54 |
| anteaya | pleia2: I understand moose rolls are quite tasty | 19:55 |
| fungi | bswartz: also pointed out that the ubuntu-core trusty base images dib's ubuntu element (but not the ubuntu-minimal element we use for nodepool) are no longer being provided by canonical | 19:55 |
| fungi | s/:// | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: oh dear, we'll be visiting one (some?) at an animal care facility, no eating :) | 19:55 |
| pleia2 | (this is like the kangaroos all over again!) | 19:55 |
| fungi | so i guess anybody using that dib element is in a bad way now | 19:56 |
| jeblair | the ansible environment variable situation is "whack". i'm nearing the bottom of that; when i get there, i think we'll be ready for zuulv2.5 | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: ah visiting the moose, eating lobster rolls, now I get it | 19:56 |
| pleia2 | anteaya: yes, eat the sea bugs, visit the fluffy animals | 19:56 |
| prometheanfire | fungi: no, the dep tree is really just a collector | 19:56 |
| prometheanfire | not a true graph | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | pleia2: enjoy the fluffy animals :) | 19:56 |
| ianw | fungi: yeah, i've wondered if we really have the bandwidth to support the !minimal paths | 19:56 |
| prometheanfire | so it's fine, just slightly counterintuitive | 19:56 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: excellent | 19:56 |
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| anteaya | jeblair: all these technical terms today | 19:57 |
| anteaya | I can't keep up | 19:57 |
| pabelanger | jeblair: I'll try and finish off the zuul-worker DIB element this week. Need to do a few updates to some puppet bits | 19:57 |
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| zaro | fungi: most likely route to force online reindex is with admin-console plugin. | 19:57 |
| ianw | fungi: yeah, deps run in different phases ... but it would sure be nice for testing if caching the repos was a separate thing. currently it gets pulled in before we run puppet | 19:57 |
| jeblair | pabelanger: cool; it's not a blocker but will be nice to have when we're ready for the jenkinsectomy | 19:58 |
| fungi | zaro: that sounds like a good way forward to me then. thanks for researching | 19:58 |
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| fungi | okay, anything else? we're at 45 seconds remaining | 19:59 |
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| fungi | (last call!) | 19:59 |
| pleia2 | thanks for chairing, fungi | 19:59 |
| prometheanfire | have a nice weekend | 19:59 |
| fungi | you're welcome! | 19:59 |
| fungi | ...and we're out of time--thanks everyone! | 19:59 |
| fungi | #endmeeting | 20:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 20:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 20:00:01 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-24-19.03.html | 20:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-24-19.03.txt | 20:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-05-24-19.03.log.html | 20:00 |
| fungi | the stage is yours, ttx | 20:00 |
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| flaper87 | o/ | 20:00 |
| annegentle | o/ | 20:00 |
| mestery | o/ | 20:00 |
| dhellmann | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | o/ | 20:00 |
| prometheanfire | which one is this one? | 20:00 |
| * dougwig is lurking. | 20:00 | |
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| * rockyg is snoozing in the back | 20:00 | |
| dims | o/ | 20:00 |
| ttx | johnthetubaguy, mtreinish, thingee, mordred, morgan, russellb, sdague : around ? | 20:00 |
| sdague | o/ | 20:00 |
| * edleafe finds a dark spot on the side | 20:00 | |
| thingee | o/ | 20:00 |
| fungi | prometheanfire: technical committee | 20:00 |
| * mugsie|mobile lurks | 20:01 | |
| johnthetubaguy | o/ | 20:01 |
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| ttx | #startmeeting tc | 20:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Tue May 24 20:01:06 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 20:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 20:01 |
| prometheanfire | oh, this should be fun | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 20:01 |
| mtreinish | o/ | 20:01 |
| russellb | o/ | 20:01 |
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| * flaper87 bows | 20:01 | |
| * prometheanfire lurks | 20:01 | |
| ttx | Hi everyone! | 20:01 |
| ttx | We have accumulated a sane backlog... Our agenda for today: | 20:01 |
| ttx | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 20:01 |
| ttx | #topic Clarify language about expectations for cycle-with-intermediary releases | 20:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Clarify language about expectations for cycle-with-intermediary releases (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:01 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/318319 | 20:01 |
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| ttx | This one is just a language clarification. Saw no objection, just got enough votes | 20:02 |
| ttx | So will approve now unless someone screams | 20:02 |
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| dims | ttx : sounds good | 20:02 |
| * notmorgan screams for ice cream? | 20:02 | |
| ttx | #topic Adds a docs:devdocs tag to indicate if project publishes devdocs | 20:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Adds a docs:devdocs tag to indicate if project publishes devdocs (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:02 | |
| * flaper87 wants icecream | 20:02 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/316396 | 20:03 |
| ttx | This one is slightly more contentious. Anne proposes a tag to describe which projects have developer docs | 20:03 |
| thingee | can we avoid discussing the maturity level in this topic please. | 20:03 |
| ttx | I think that's a valid piece of information for users, but I also think it's accurately communicated through: | 20:03 |
| ttx | http://docs.openstack.org/developer/openstack-projects.html | 20:03 |
| ttx | thingee: I think we can | 20:03 |
| mestery | thingee: ++ | 20:03 |
| ttx | So.. I'm unconvinced of the benefit of maintaining this in two places | 20:03 |
| annegentle | ttx my only concern with using openstack-projects.html is it's a manual process to keep that updated | 20:03 |
| russellb | can it be applied per repo? | 20:03 |
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| sdague | ttx: we maintain diversity tags in 2 places ? | 20:04 |
| russellb | aren't those docs usually a per repo thing? | 20:04 |
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| ttx | annegentle: it's also a manual process to update the tags ? | 20:04 |
| thingee | russellb: tags today allow that, so yes? | 20:04 |
| annegentle | russellb not in my findings unfortunately | 20:04 |
| sdague | how is this different than that? | 20:04 |
| russellb | thingee: ack | 20:04 |
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| dhellmann | sdague : where do we do that? | 20:04 |
| ttx | sdague: I don't understand | 20:05 |
| mtreinish | annegentle: just curious could we use the script in the existing place? | 20:05 |
| annegentle | ttx oh I don't see it as super manual when I can run a script. | 20:05 |
| sdague | we created a tag for diversity based on data you can find elsewhere | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | my idea is to start with this tag, then expand to different docs: | 20:05 |
| annegentle | tags to indicate which projects are more complete in their | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | doc coverage. | 20:05 |
| ttx | We have a page that lists dev docs. Anne proposes that we build tags that say "yes, there is a devdoc entry for the project on that page". I'm not sure what added value that brings to the user | 20:05 |
| annegentle | derp paste | 20:05 |
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| annegentle | I'd like to have a starting point, and what we tell early projects now is "at least write contrib docs" | 20:06 |
| dhellmann | sdague : ah, yeah. I think I made the same argument against that tag, too. This case is even "worse" in the sense that it's a binary flag. At least for diversity it's a summary of the data collected elsewhere. | 20:06 |
| sdague | ttx: it seems like value from the project overview perspective. | 20:06 |
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| flaper87 | and I believe it's different from the diversity tag | 20:06 |
| annegentle | then we can add more doc tags for what else is written/maintained | 20:06 |
| thingee | this would assumes the user is someone interested in the development processes of a project. | 20:06 |
| annegentle | I could skip to a "docs:drift" tag instead, which would measure the time diff between when RST files were last updated versus code files | 20:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: so if we autogenerated the info into the generated html, would that do the same thing? | 20:07 |
| annegentle | thingee yeah, it's an audience-centric view. Not the greatest approach. | 20:07 |
| ttx | In the case of the diversity, you have to interpret a pie chart into a boolean, not just copy a boolean into another boolean | 20:07 |
| sdague | the whole point of tags was to provide one stop shop for information about a project that is useful to consumers | 20:07 |
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| mtreinish | johnthetubaguy: yeah, that's what I was wondering | 20:07 |
| sdague | ttx: but you still need to know where to find that other thing | 20:07 |
| sdague | you are assuming a lot of pre knowledge | 20:07 |
| thingee | as oppose to today where we have a tag recognizing installation docs and the user is someone who is deploying something | 20:07 |
| thingee | ops tag actually | 20:07 |
| annegentle | mtreinish johnthetubaguy maybe? so take openstack-projects.html and do something? | 20:07 |
| fungi | worth noting, contributor documentation is often expected by contributors to be found in the git repo for the project they just cloned or are browsing, so also having it published in a rendered form on docs.openstack.org seems sort of secondary | 20:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | aggregating data is useful, when exploring projects | 20:08 |
| ttx | sdague: you mean, we need to assume people look for documentation by clicking on a linkk saying "Documentation" on almost every openstack website ? | 20:08 |
| annegentle | fungi that's true, and a fair point. | 20:08 |
| notmorgan | i just want to say i don't have a strong view here. | 20:08 |
| fungi | for example, most of our projects have a CONTRIBUTING.rst in the top-level directory, few of them actually publish that anywhere in a rendered form | 20:08 |
| notmorgan | i will support the direction annegentle would like to see it go. | 20:08 |
| sdague | honestly, I feel like replicating information that can be done nearly automatically has very low cost, and at least some benefit | 20:08 |
| notmorgan | sine i think she has a solid understanding of the needs on this front. | 20:08 |
| rockyg | uh, as a "user", I'll go wherever I might find an answer, so the tag would be useful | 20:09 |
| annegentle | I think mtreinish might be onto something, where we "quality check" the completeness of openstack-projects.html. | 20:09 |
| ttx | I'm just trying to avoid extra bureaucracy and stale data. If Anne thinks she can maintain the tag alright, why not | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | sdague: thinking a similar thing, honestly | 20:09 |
| notmorgan | ttx: that is 100% fair | 20:09 |
| johnthetubaguy | I mean skip the tag, and just add something into the rendered html? | 20:09 |
| thingee | I don't see a strong benefit of being able to see this information at a glance besides knowing the doc coverage as annegentle mentioned. If it can be maintained easily, i don't see harm in in it. I also don't have a strong opinion. | 20:09 |
| dims | the link to the doc for a project is more valuable than the tag itself.. | 20:09 |
| flaper87 | I'm honestly more concerned about what other tags we're considering for the docs group than this one per se. | 20:09 |
| mestery | dims: ++ | 20:09 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy honestly I'm not in love with "devdocs" tag because it's not that meaningful to end users | 20:09 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : yeah, I suggested adding URLs instead of a tag | 20:10 |
| ttx | also as a data point, the existence of an install doc is maintained as an ops tag | 20:10 |
| dims | dhellmann : ++ | 20:10 |
| annegentle | I wanted to get this up there as a POC to see if we could automate docs tags... | 20:10 |
| sdague | adding urls would also be fine with me | 20:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: I missed that, that would work | 20:10 |
| rockyg | dhellmann, ++ | 20:10 |
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| ttx | I'd say that adding urls feels like less useless duplication, at least one can get to the doc from there | 20:11 |
| annegentle | dhellmann I like that idea because looking now, people tend to point to a wiki page, blech. | 20:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | given nova vs compute, for dev and api docs, its handy to have a lookup | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | urls work for this tag, but will be a bit complicated for "is covered by an install guide" since there may be several | 20:11 |
| dims | annegentle : agree | 20:11 |
| mestery | I like dhellmann's idea of the urls to be honest | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | So, URLs and we're good ? | 20:11 |
| sdague | dhellmann: maybe, there is typically a base entry point | 20:11 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:11 |
| annegentle | all: and for the next trick, how to figure out which projects are lacking API docs? | 20:11 |
| russellb | urls ++ | 20:11 |
| ttx | dhellmann: so adding to the deliverable grammar rather than use a tag ? | 20:11 |
| sdague | annegentle: and I agree, api doc url is also good here | 20:11 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: a URL? | 20:11 |
| dhellmann | ttx; right, I propose a data model in a comment on anne's patch | 20:12 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy well, it also gets to "are you publishing to a known URL pattern or not?" | 20:12 |
| ttx | dhellmann: this still creates a maintenance cost and a risk of stale data, but I can see it was having higher value, so that compensates | 20:12 |
| ttx | s/was/as | 20:13 |
| dhellmann | ttx: yeah, staleness is going to be a bit of a concern either way | 20:13 |
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| annegentle | I'd still like ideas for discovering which projects are off-pattern... ideas? | 20:13 |
| ttx | ok, so let's express that in the review and morve formward ? | 20:13 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:13 |
| annegentle | yes please add to review | 20:13 |
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| ttx | annegentle: you can easily check which project is missing the extra devdoc yaml entry | 20:13 |
| ttx | even easier than checking presence of tag | 20:13 |
| annegentle | ttx yep that pattern will help immensely, is it ok to then spread to other doc types? Please comment on review. | 20:14 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : if we specify base URLs in code, and slugs in the YAML, then all of the functional URLs will have to follow the pattern. | 20:14 |
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| sdague | this data really shouldn't get very stale. If people are randomly moving docs urls all over the place, that's a way different problem | 20:14 |
| dims | dhellmann : love it | 20:14 |
| annegentle | sdague they are for api-ref for sure already | 20:14 |
| ttx | you can have a doc: entry at the same level as tag entries, and then list URLs to various types of docs | 20:14 |
| sdague | annegentle: in a one time move | 20:14 |
| annegentle | sdague by not publishing the same way | 20:14 |
| annegentle | ttx ok put an example in the review, thanks! | 20:14 |
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| annegentle | I'll take on which doc urls in a revision | 20:15 |
| johnthetubaguy | annegentle: sdague: as an aside, I guess we need to fix that with redirects or something, but thats a difference conversation | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : see my comment from May 23 | 20:15 |
| ttx | doc: - devdoc:<URL> - install:<URL> etc | 20:15 |
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| ttx | OK, I think we can iterate on the review and offline | 20:15 |
| annegentle | johnthetubaguy we do redirects a lot now, but yes, that would be ideal | 20:15 |
| dhellmann | s/devdoc/contribdoc/ | 20:15 |
| annegentle | dhellmann cool | 20:15 |
| annegentle | ttx yep! Thanks | 20:15 |
| ttx | I propose we move on to next topic | 20:15 |
| flaper87 | ++ | 20:16 |
| ttx | #topic Trim tc-approved-release tag to just base IaaS projects - initial discussion | 20:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Trim tc-approved-release tag to just base IaaS projects - initial discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:16 | |
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| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/314691 | 20:16 |
| ttx | Let's timebox the initial discussion on this one to 20 minutes to give room to make progress on the golang discussion | 20:16 |
| ttx | Only Doug and I have been posting comments on this one so far (as TC members) | 20:16 |
| notmorgan | i don't understand the intentioin here. it seems superfluous to do? | 20:16 |
| mtreinish | ttx: well and me :) | 20:16 |
| ttx | Proposal is to limit tc-approved-release to "Base IaaS" projects, removing heat, horizon, ironic, sahara, ceilometer and trove | 20:16 |
| ttx | mtreinish: obviously :) | 20:16 |
| thingee | I think this is some other kind of tag. Also this will be difficult to determine. | 20:16 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan: not just superfluous, but against the established process | 20:17 |
| ttx | In my comment I noted the proposal is a bit incompatible with how we said we'd use 'tc-approved-release' when it was first created | 20:17 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: fair enough | 20:17 |
| ttx | i.e. it was not meant to describe "Base IaaS" projects, it was only meant to fulfill our obligations under the Foundation bylaws | 20:17 |
| ttx | with changes to the list being Board-driven rather than TC-driven | 20:17 |
| thingee | And I'm curious on the value. Was that explained somewhere? | 20:17 |
| ttx | Of course we could change that, but I think in that case we should update the tag description as well | 20:17 |
| mugsie|mobile | Or a new tag? | 20:17 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: i voted and concur with your vote. | 20:17 |
| dhellmann | yeah, this tag was defined very carefully to avoid having to keep having this discussion at all | 20:17 |
| mtreinish | ttx: right, but as long as the borad process is being used to determine technical things like interop requirements I think we should take a more active role in determining what is included there | 20:18 |
| thingee | so new tag ... if there's value | 20:18 |
| notmorgan | thingee: i said as much in my review. | 20:18 |
| dims | thingee mugsie|mobile ++ | 20:18 |
| ttx | thingee: yes | 20:18 |
| dougwig | this tag has some overlap with computer:starter-kit idea, imo. | 20:18 |
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| dhellmann | mtreinish : if there are issues with projects on the list, we should address those one at a time. | 20:18 |
| mtreinish | I can respin it as a new tag, thats easy enough to | 20:18 |
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| dougwig | /this tag/this change/ | 20:18 |
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| dims | mtreinish : sounds like the right thing to do | 20:18 |
| thingee | sigmavirus24: yea what about compute:starter-kit as dougwig suggested | 20:18 |
| ttx | I can see the cost of that tag (endless discussions on what is "Base IaaS" and not sure what value it brings to end users of openstack | 20:19 |
| mestery | dougwig: Good point | 20:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | huh? | 20:19 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : like http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/starter-kit_compute.html ? | 20:19 |
| notmorgan | ttx: starterkit seems to cover this anyway | 20:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | How did I get pulled into this? | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | thingee: you meant dougwig | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | :D | 20:19 |
| flaper87 | sigmavirus24: typo | 20:19 |
| notmorgan | sigmavirus24: typo? | 20:19 |
| sigmavirus24 | ah | 20:19 |
| thingee | sigmavirus24: http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/starter-kit_compute.html | 20:19 |
| dims | :) | 20:19 |
| jroll | mtreinish: so 'base' here means 'covered by defcore'? | 20:19 |
| * notmorgan makes it a point to bring sigmavirus24 into every convo now | 20:19 | |
| mestery | notmorgan: lol | 20:19 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we don't want to talk about the tag, should we not either delete it, or added to everything? | 20:19 |
| * sigmavirus24 shakes head | 20:19 | |
| mugsie|mobile | Why should only base iaas be covered by defcore? | 20:20 |
| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: it is mostly historical. it was a baseline to start with, long term it should be something we can drop | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | johnthetubaguy : the tag is an implementation of our duties under the bylaws w.r.t. the defcore committee | 20:20 |
| mtreinish | sure, compute starter kit is similar, but the problem is for the purpose of actually enforcing interop the tc isn't actually asserting those projects. Its saying anything which was in the intergrated release pre big tent can be used | 20:20 |
| notmorgan | just not yet | 20:20 |
| thingee | sigmavirus24: oh heh, for some reason I thought I read last night you starting this, sorry | 20:20 |
| ttx | notmorgan: starterkit has value ("what should I start with"). Not sure "What are the 'Base IaaS' projects" is a question users have and we need to provide an answer for | 20:20 |
| sigmavirus24 | thingee: no worries :D | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | so we need the tag, unless we come up with another way to do that, but we have the tag so we don't need another way to do it | 20:20 |
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| notmorgan | ttx: right, starterkit i see as the intention of this change. | 20:20 |
| dhellmann | the name of the tag was, as described in its definition, selected specifically because that's what the bylaws call this list | 20:20 |
| mtreinish | if defcore is the only trademark thing which as a community we're also using to enforce interop I fele like we should be a bit more targetted in what we say should be used there | 20:20 |
| notmorgan | ttx: in spirit if not in the letter | 20:20 |
| thingee | notmorgan, dhellmann +1 | 20:21 |
| ttx | notmorgan: except it's larger than starter-kit | 20:21 |
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| notmorgan | ttx: hence my view it's the spirit of the change | 20:21 |
| dims | "has-interop-tests"? | 20:21 |
| notmorgan | even though it's a narrower tag (starterkit) | 20:21 |
| johnthetubaguy | mtreinish: it does feel wrong to side step our obligations around maintaining the tag | 20:21 |
| sdague | tags are cheap, so lets not overload existing things | 20:21 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : if we end up with 2 interop processes, we're going to have different versions of interoperability | 20:21 |
| mugsie|mobile | mtreinish: why? Should we not aim to have trove etc checked for interop? | 20:21 |
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| * dims nods with mugsie|mobile 's question | 20:22 | |
| mugsie|mobile | (Or Designate, but I would argue we should be base iaas) | 20:22 |
| ttx | I kind of see what mtreininsh wants though...; there are things in tc-approved-release we'd likely never ever want in the "OpenStack-powered compute" trademark program | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it's not our job to define trademark programs | 20:22 |
| notmorgan | so, lets invert this. | 20:22 |
| ttx | dhellmann: right | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | that's the board's job | 20:22 |
| johnthetubaguy | so tested for interop and in the OpenStack-powered compute are not the same thing right? | 20:22 |
| thingee | dhellmann: +1 | 20:22 |
| notmorgan | if defcore wants to propose the "trademark" tag | 20:22 |
| dhellmann | and they're doing that by creating different programs as needed | 20:22 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:22 |
| notmorgan | let them. | 20:22 |
| dims | dhellmann : we need something to reflect which ones we cover under trademark programs? | 20:22 |
| notmorgan | and i'll support it | 20:22 |
| notmorgan | i don't want the TC to define it | 20:22 |
| ttx | dhellmann: also compute is not the only trademark they might want to create | 20:22 |
| * markvoelker notes that it is possible to create other Components than what is in DefCore today, and give them their own interop/Powered badges | 20:22 | |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: it's not, but we also use it to say this is what we mean to be interoperable (with defcore) which feels like a technical thing | 20:22 |
| ttx | markvoelker: ++ | 20:23 |
| notmorgan | defcore/board. | 20:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | notmorgan: hence my suggestion of adding the tag to every project, if thats what we want to do | 20:23 |
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| dhellmann | dims : yes, the tc-approved-release is our list of projects we consider reasonable for defcore to be looking at -- the ones we've agreed for them to look at | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | markvoelker: ++ | 20:23 |
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| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: i'd rather let this tag die long term. it's very historical | 20:23 |
| dims | markvoelker ++ | 20:23 |
| flaper87 | we can have a tag for what projects are interoperable, as it's been mentioned already | 20:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | notmorgan: I am OK deleteting it | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | we can't have a membership change in the TC having big changes in that list, because it takes a while for defcore to move | 20:23 |
| johnthetubaguy | markvoelker: totally +1 that | 20:23 |
| sdague | right, tc-approved-release is what the TC has said the board can consider for interop | 20:23 |
| ttx | notmorgan: unfortunately the bylaws change very slowly | 20:23 |
| notmorgan | ttx: yes i know. | 20:23 |
| cdent | It sounds like people are wanting to abdicate technical responsibility (for interoperability) to defcore, which seems contrary to what I would hope a _technical_ committee is for. | 20:23 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : no, no, it's not historical -- the current membership is historical but the tag is definitely something we have to keep up with | 20:24 |
| sdague | cdent: well, it's more subtle than that | 20:24 |
| mugsie|mobile | cdent: ++ | 20:24 |
| flaper87 | cdent: I don't think that's the intention | 20:24 |
| notmorgan | cdent: we have unfortunately already delegated that long ago | 20:24 |
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| dhellmann | cdent : not abdicate, collaborate | 20:24 |
| notmorgan | cdent: but the intention here is not to have the TC dictate what is defcore sprecifc | 20:24 |
| cdent | sdague: I know it is more subtle than that, but it does _sound_ that way. | 20:24 |
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| sdague | because the board owns the mission of the commercial competition space. So they really should be the one to come up with commercial certifications they feel best fit in the marketplace | 20:25 |
| notmorgan | cdent: but have defcore propose from their side as well getting collaboration | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | the tc has input into defcore through this tag and through statements about future technical direction (see my pending proposals for examples) | 20:25 |
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| dhellmann | and of course anyone can go to defcore meetings and argue points there | 20:25 |
| hogepodge | cdent: defcore is a board process which seeks direction from tc | 20:25 |
| sdague | and the TC has the ability to say, via tc-approved-release, this is the menu of things we're ok with you building from | 20:25 |
| notmorgan | but the board and defcore comittee owns the trademark stuff. I just can't see us defining the tag w/o directed input from the board and defcore | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | that process is open, and done through code review | 20:25 |
| ttx | cdent: the weapon you can enforce interoperability with is trademark programs -- and that's the board prerogative | 20:25 |
| sdague | and we've generally agreed at this point the menu is bigger than defcore needs, and that's fine | 20:25 |
| sdague | because nothing on the menu is rediculous | 20:25 |
| notmorgan | so i'd rather have the proposal inverted if we're using it in this way | 20:25 |
| dhellmann | sdague : right, we never want this list to be too much smaller than what defcore needs/wants | 20:26 |
| dims | so we should not take things out of that menu | 20:26 |
| notmorgan | we work with defcore to determien what the tag is. anyway i think i've said enough. | 20:26 |
| ttx | cdent: they get to define what the OpenStack[tm] can be applied to | 20:26 |
| sdague | and if the board feels there is another cert they want to spur competition / market on, they can ask the tc to put more on the menu | 20:26 |
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| dhellmann | notmorgan : all of that work was already done, that's how the tag was created in teh first place | 20:26 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: right | 20:26 |
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| flaper87 | dhellmann: ++ | 20:26 |
| notmorgan | dhellmann: so nothing to change imo | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | sdague : right, that's what we said when we created the tag | 20:26 |
| rockyg | ++ | 20:26 |
| dhellmann | I feel like there's just some history here that folks don't remember/know/understand. | 20:27 |
| sdague | we can decide that stuff should come off the menu. That's fine, that's a very specific different thing. | 20:27 |
| edleafe | dhellmann: ++ | 20:27 |
| mestery | dhellmann: ++ | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | sdague: yes, but we should do that deliberatively and one project at a time | 20:27 |
| sdague | but I don't think we want to conflate that with what's actually being interop tested | 20:27 |
| dims | dhellmann : agree | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | and with "reasons" beyond "cleaning up" | 20:27 |
| notmyname | dhellmann: seems like a good summary of a lot of openstack discussions ;-) | 20:27 |
| sdague | because it always was supposed to be larger | 20:27 |
| ttx | I should probably unearth links to the orginal discussion for context | 20:27 |
| dhellmann | notmyname : so true | 20:27 |
| dims | sdague : so we need a tag that reflects what's being defcore-tested | 20:27 |
| sdague | dims: that would be fine | 20:28 |
| dims | at this moment | 20:28 |
| hogepodge | sdague: dims: defcore is a very small subset of openstack, "core", and we could communicate that better. | 20:28 |
| dhellmann | dims : well, that gets us back into redefining things that are defined elsewhere. DefCore has that info, and there's a trademark site that lists the current rules. | 20:28 |
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| annegentle | mtreinish so is that the need, to indicate whats tested? | 20:28 |
| sdague | hogepodge: right, given the amount of confusion, I think a tag would actually be quite useful | 20:28 |
| dims | dhellmann : yep, so we don't need to do that here | 20:28 |
| hogepodge | sdague: +1 | 20:28 |
| ttx | It's not completely crazy to have a tag that reflects current defcore projects. Not sure that's a question that people actually have, but I can see it clarifying things | 20:28 |
| sdague | because I bet most of the TC doesn't know what the list is :) | 20:28 |
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| sdague | even though they could look it up | 20:29 |
| dims | haha | 20:29 |
| rockyg | dhellmann, dims ++ | 20:29 |
| rockyg | Defined in DefCore repo. | 20:29 |
| dims | one google search away :) | 20:29 |
| mtreinish | annegentle: well I was more trying to define a set of what the tc thinks is base set of projects for interop | 20:29 |
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| hogepodge | ttx: sdague: especially since compute will capture keystone, cinder, nova, glance, neutron. it's confusing | 20:29 |
| dhellmann | sdague : how about a link from http://governance.openstack.org/reference/tags/tc-approved-release.html to that info? | 20:29 |
| dims | mtreinish : what yardstick would you use to measure that? | 20:29 |
| mugsie|mobile | and again, why should that list only be iaas? | 20:29 |
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| annegentle | mtreinish that was originally the starter kit | 20:29 |
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| sdague | annegentle: it's not | 20:30 |
| mestery | annegentle: I didn't think the starter kit was for interop | 20:30 |
| hogepodge | but, a defcore tag should say 'defcore' to prevent even more confusion | 20:30 |
| sdague | mestery: ++ | 20:30 |
| mtreinish | annegentle: maybe, but if so I feel there is a disconnect in the messaging then | 20:30 |
| annegentle | sdague mestery ok, right, it was for computing | 20:30 |
| mestery | yes | 20:30 |
| annegentle | mtreinish nope I'm wrong :) | 20:30 |
| sdague | right, lets not conflate things | 20:30 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mestery: are you suggesting the menu is too big for defcore right now, or something different? | 20:30 |
| sdague | because there are a few different slices here, which have very close member sets, but they are for different reasons | 20:31 |
| flaper87 | so, the time is almost up for this topic. Can we summarize the discussion and write down the main take-aways ? | 20:31 |
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| sdague | and that was the whole problem with the "integrated release" | 20:31 |
| mestery | johnthetubaguy: I'm not suggesting anything, I was just saying the "compute:starter" tag was not indicating interop | 20:31 |
| dhellmann | right | 20:31 |
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| dims | mestery : ack | 20:31 |
| johnthetubaguy | mestery: sorry, I used the wrong name, that was for mtreinish | 20:31 |
| mestery | johnthetubaguy: heh, no worries :) | 20:31 |
| anteaya | so many m's | 20:32 |
| mtreinish | johnthetubaguy: I think it is, like horizon isn't likely ever gonna be an interop requirement | 20:32 |
| sdague | mtreinish / hogepodge so how about a whole new tag here? | 20:32 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mestery: my typing skills at 9pm are even worse than normal! | 20:32 |
| dhellmann | I'd be OK with a tag reflecting what defcore is using. I don't think we need a tag "suggesting" an interop set of any sort. | 20:32 |
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| sdague | mtreinish: well, I think I agree with dhellmann that we should do deletes from that 1 at a time. | 20:32 |
| mtreinish | johnthetubaguy: and I think a base interop set shouldn't be things that consume other openstack apis (but maybe that's just my opinion) | 20:32 |
| flaper87 | johnthetubaguy: try it at 10pm :P | 20:32 |
| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: the old "m<tab>" trap | 20:32 |
| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: i am very familiar with it. | 20:32 |
| mtreinish | sdague: sure, I can do it as that | 20:32 |
| mugsie|mobile | mtreinish: but why does it have to be iaas? | 20:32 |
| mugsie|mobile | flaper87: I feel your pain | 20:33 |
| mtreinish | mugsie|mobile: well what kinda of openstack cloud doesn't use iaas as a base? | 20:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | flaper87: we should compare hours after evening meal or something, heh | 20:33 |
| ttx | OK, I think there is general agreement that whatever this tag is trying to convey, tc-approved-release is probably not the right place for it | 20:33 |
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| flaper87 | ok, I guess we'll iterate again over the new patchset with the new tag | 20:33 |
| mestery | ttx: ++ | 20:33 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 | 20:33 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : I think you're trying to pull the TC into an area that's the board's responsibility. | 20:33 |
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| johnthetubaguy | mtreinish: sdague: yeah, I am +1 the one by one removal, FWIW | 20:33 |
| mtreinish | I'm fine with working it as a new tag | 20:33 |
| dougwig | mtreinish: can you really get a large group of people to define IaaS the same way? | 20:33 |
| ttx | There might be room for another tag (or not) but let's wait until that is proposed ? | 20:34 |
| hogepodge | sdague: yes, defcore has meaning and a tag to capture that is useful | 20:34 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: interop is very much a TC thing | 20:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | and a new tag for the new thing sounds like a nice idea too | 20:34 |
| sdague | hogepodge: ++ | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | mtreinish : defining sets of things though? | 20:34 |
| sdague | ok, so mtreinish has 2 todos, right? | 20:34 |
| flaper87 | We should wait for mtreinish's new PS and comment there. | 20:34 |
| ttx | We are approaching our timebox | 20:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | so interop is a TC thing, trademarks is a board thing, right? | 20:34 |
| * jroll wonders what world bare metal machines aren't IaaS :P | 20:34 | |
| sdague | new tag, plus propose any appropriate deletes? | 20:34 |
| mugsie|mobile | jroll ++ | 20:34 |
| thingee | jroll: heh | 20:34 |
| hogepodge | mtreinish: I'd like for projects outside of defcore to define what interop means to them too, again, guidance | 20:34 |
| sdague | and we move on those in gerrit | 20:34 |
| dhellmann | where "appropriate deletes" includes detailed reasons beyond cleaning things up | 20:34 |
| edleafe | jroll: ++ | 20:34 |
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| mtreinish | jroll: I was thinking only from the api side, not the functionality | 20:34 |
| sdague | dhellmann: absolutely | 20:34 |
| jroll | (I get the removal motivation here, but "not IaaS" heh) | 20:35 |
| jroll | mtreinish: yeah, fair | 20:35 |
| johnthetubaguy | dhellmann: +1 | 20:35 |
| dims | mtreinish : +1 | 20:35 |
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| mtreinish | jroll: in the ironic case it goes through nova for the most part :) | 20:35 |
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| sdague | jroll: yeh, ironic is super weird in not having a user API from an interop perspective | 20:35 |
| ttx | OK, let's move on to next topic | 20:36 |
| sdague | which isn't that it's not an important project, it's just that by rule it can't be defcore, which doesn't do admin apis | 20:36 |
| jroll | sdague: right, I get that it's an interop thing, and I'd agree for now, but we should be clear about that rather than saying "IaaS" | 20:36 |
| thingee | ttx: +1 move on | 20:36 |
| sdague | jroll: agree | 20:36 |
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| ttx | please follow-up on that review | 20:36 |
| ttx | #topic Add golang as an approved language - benefits vs. costs, and the scope clarification option | 20:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Add golang as an approved language - benefits vs. costs, and the scope clarification option (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:36 | |
| ttx | #link https://review.openstack.org/312267 | 20:37 |
| * edleafe gets popcorn | 20:37 | |
| ttx | Last week I tried to reframe the choices we actually had on this one, since I think we can't really say "no" to golang in official OpenStack projects as they stand | 20:37 |
| flaper87 | edleafe: share | 20:37 |
| ttx | So I presented two alternatives: "yes" and "no and do things in other languages as OpenStack dependencies" | 20:37 |
| thingee | current thread http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/thread.html#95452 | 20:37 |
| * edleafe hands flaper87 a handful | 20:37 | |
| ttx | That said, nobody on the thread did really support my "official scope drives official languages" theory -- and then the discussion on that thread went sideways | 20:37 |
| * rockyg opens one eye and reaches for edleafe's popcorn | 20:37 | |
| ttx | Finally, a "yes but everything that can be done in Python should still be done in Python" option emerged recently | 20:37 |
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| dhellmann | ttx: I like the distinction, but that thread got off track so fast I didn't follow up | 20:38 |
| notmorgan | so i think adrian otto summed up my vew perfectly: http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095827.html | 20:38 |
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| ttx | So I'd like to take a temperature read (not a vote) to clarify current TC members positions on this before we continue the discussion | 20:38 |
| mestery | dhellmann: ++ to that | 20:38 |
| ttx | TC members, please order the following options in descending order of preference | 20:38 |
| ttx | #1: Yes to golang, without restrictions | 20:38 |
| annegentle | I enjoyed the trip in the five years ago time machine | 20:38 |
| dhellmann | ttx: it is extremely unlikely that if we approve the use of golang we could avoid having projects start rewriting things | 20:38 |
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| ttx | #2: Yes to golang, with clear description on where it is appropriate to use it (i.e. when Python can't be used) | 20:38 |
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| ttx | #3: Components requiring golang should really be developed as OpenStack dependencies, no need to expand the language set now | 20:38 |
| edleafe | annegentle: yeah, I remember the discussion, but missed that meeting | 20:39 |
| ttx | #4: Some other solution: remaining options don't work for me | 20:39 |
| ttx | At this stage I think I'm 3,2,1,4 | 20:39 |
| notmorgan | #2, #1, #3 | 20:39 |
| dims | ttx : i would like to add some guidance on projects that want to pick up go and tell them beware of these things before you go down this road | 20:39 |
| thingee | 3, 2, 1, 4 | 20:39 |
| flaper87 | #3 #2 #1 | 20:39 |
| notmorgan | and very strongly prefer #2 to #3 | 20:39 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: are some of those rewrites good things, or is it all bad? | 20:39 |
| dims | #2 #1 #3 #4 | 20:39 |
| mtreinish | 3,2,1,4 | 20:39 |
| annegentle | My preference: 3, 2, 1 | 20:40 |
| dhellmann | dougwig : the comments I saw made no distinction and were effectively "I'll rewrite everything because I can" | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | 2,3,4,1 | 20:40 |
| * notmorgan doesn't see 4 as an option. | 20:40 | |
| dhellmann | 3, 2, 4, 1 | 20:40 |
| sdague | 3,2,1,4 I think, though 2 & 3 are kind of close for me | 20:40 |
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| ttx | notmorgan: #4 is "none of the above" | 20:40 |
| * dhellmann waits for ttx to apply condorcet rules in his head | 20:40 | |
| mestery | #2 #3 #1 | 20:40 |
| mtreinish | notmorgan: well #4 is the cause of and solution to all of life's problem | 20:40 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: lol | 20:40 |
| notmorgan | ttx: hence i don't see it as an option ;) | 20:40 |
| johnthetubaguy | 2 and 3 are a very close call for me too, honestly | 20:40 |
| dims | mtreinish : that's #41 :) | 20:40 |
| ttx | dhellmann: I didn't really expect 3 to be so popular given the silence on that thread | 20:41 |
| fungi | dougwig: there's at least one project who suggested they wanted to rewrite a component in go because someone had already done a poc in it so reusing that would be less work than trying to optimize the python code in place | 20:41 |
| * flaper87 hands johnthetubaguy a coin | 20:41 | |
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| dhellmann | ttx: every time I started to reply there were another 10 messages to read... | 20:41 |
| mugsie|mobile | fungi: that is a bit of an over simplification | 20:41 |
| mtreinish | dims: nah, it's actually beer :) (it's a simpsons quote) | 20:41 |
| dims | :) | 20:41 |
| flaper87 | dhellmann: it took me a good piece of today to catch up | 20:41 |
| ttx | dhellmann: untrue! that thread was pretty calm | 20:41 |
| sdague | ttx: or it's just hard to build up the emotional energy for it | 20:41 |
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| dougwig | dhellmann: fungi: wow, i would expect programmer standard laziness to not ditch oslo et al without a good reason. | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | ttx: maybe I should be checking email more often | 20:42 |
| annegentle | does the diff between 3 and 2 then require defining dependency borders? | 20:42 |
| fungi | mugsie|mobile: best summary i have, though i'm sure there's more to it for that case | 20:42 |
| ttx | annegentle: #2 is simple, it's just yes with some words added | 20:42 |
| mugsie|mobile | There is | 20:42 |
| mtreinish | dhellmann: heh, yeah I was in a similar situation on that thread | 20:42 |
| annegentle | that is, does the difference get into the plugin boundaries also? | 20:42 |
| notmorgan | ttx: basically (i'll quote adrian): "Openstack projects shall use Python as the preferred programming language. Golang may be used as an alternative if the project leadership decides it is justified." | 20:42 |
| dhellmann | dougwig : I think NIH is trumping laziness in those cases | 20:42 |
| notmorgan | something like that ^ annegentle | 20:42 |
| ttx | annegentle: #3 is more tricky. We need to explain what "everything where python is not sufficient should really be an openstack dependency" actually means in specific cases | 20:42 |
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| annegentle | notmorgan the problem with aotto's language though is "what's project leadership" defined as | 20:43 |
| dougwig | dhellmann: won't those types produce lousy python anyway? i'm not sure that's better. | 20:43 |
| mugsie|mobile | dhellmann: not so, in some of them we do not need any olso.* libs | 20:43 |
| thingee | annegentle: bingo | 20:43 |
| annegentle | ttx okay, yeah, that's what I thought. | 20:43 |
| flaper87 | annegentle: <3 | 20:43 |
| notmorgan | annegentle: i prefer a change to "demonstrobly needed" | 20:43 |
| notmorgan | aka how swift justified it | 20:43 |
| ttx | annegentle: in some cases it's simple (think gnocchi). In others it's complex (think Swift) | 20:43 |
| annegentle | notmorgan and then that five year history lesson was nice in talking about autonomy | 20:43 |
| notmorgan | that was good. | 20:43 |
| dims | notmorgan : demonstrate to who? TC? | 20:43 |
| dhellmann | mugsie|mobile : you're not doing configuration? | 20:43 |
| jroll | notmorgan: which comes down to #1, right? "project leadership" implies no TC interaction there | 20:43 |
| dims | that's why i prefer #2 | 20:43 |
| notmorgan | jroll: it is defining loose bounds | 20:43 |
| thingee | notmorgan: we're already seeing other projects' leadership jumping on this now. | 20:44 |
| notmorgan | jroll: a social and community project | 20:44 |
| sdague | dhellmann: or logging | 20:44 |
| notmorgan | s/project/contract | 20:44 |
| edleafe | jroll: exactly. It's open season at that point | 20:44 |
| ttx | dims: I think we can recognize a good technical rationale when we see one. The one posted for Swift explaining that they exhausted their options to solve their issue with Python was pretty compelling | 20:44 |
| notmorgan | it's about phrasing. | 20:44 |
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| notmorgan | but that is why i said #2 then #1 | 20:44 |
| dims | ttx : i mean do projects have to come to TC for a decision? | 20:44 |
| notmorgan | dims: please no. | 20:44 |
| dims | exactly notmorgan | 20:44 |
| jroll | so it's #1 then | 20:45 |
| mestery | jroll: seems like it | 20:45 |
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| jroll | (to be clear, I'm personally okay with that) | 20:45 |
| notmorgan | jroll: shrug, i disagree, but it's close enough i can't argue further. | 20:45 |
| dougwig | so you want to prevent the SME's that have solid reasons due to the people problems around handling the abusers? | 20:45 |
| thingee | ttx: others would argue as we've seen in notmyname's original thread that they've exhausted their options as well, even though some people in the community disagree. This is why I think special casing won't work. | 20:45 |
| mestery | dougwig: I want no such thing. | 20:45 |
| dhellmann | thingee : yeah, there's no way to special case this | 20:46 |
| notmorgan | thingee: i believe the teardown was mostly of designate less of swift. | 20:46 |
| thingee | saying you're going to have the community as oppose to the TC special case these as well is already showing a divide in agreement | 20:46 |
| dougwig | (for the record, i'm not planning to write anything in go.) | 20:46 |
| notmorgan | thingee: of the cases that were "exaughsted" | 20:46 |
| flaper87 | thingee: ++ | 20:46 |
| ttx | so #3 is more popular than #2. But most people aren't ready to fight the emotional battle that #3 means (including figuring out how a #3 would look like) | 20:46 |
| annegentle | I'll be honest, it feels a little like we're giving up on the cross project discipline needed to make OpenStack operable. So if we're resigned to "welp, projects are gonna do what projects gonna do" then #2. | 20:46 |
| annegentle | (that took me a while to type, heh) | 20:46 |
| thingee | notmorgan: again, how to define when something has been exhausted ... there's already a split in the community from notmyname's original thread. | 20:46 |
| ttx | annegentle: yeah, I can see how #2 is much more.. comfortable | 20:46 |
| dhellmann | annegentle : that's disappointing, but seems true | 20:46 |
| thingee | determine* | 20:46 |
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| flaper87 | ttx: I'm ready | 20:47 |
| anteaya | annegentle: I agree with you | 20:47 |
| notmorgan | i strongly prefer #2 and #1 to #3 | 20:47 |
| anteaya | annegentle: I think your observation is accurate and disappointing | 20:47 |
| mestery | notmorgan: ME too | 20:47 |
| annegentle | notmorgan what's special casing again? | 20:47 |
| dtroyer_zz | annegentle: yes, because there is a set of questions that many are actively avoiding and #3 hits them head on | 20:47 |
| thingee | annegentle: swift can, but others can't, for now | 20:47 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : how would you define where it's appropriate? | 20:47 |
| annegentle | notmorgan "only this project is coolkids?" | 20:47 |
| notmorgan | annegentle: i'm for a simple phrasing that directs where it should be used, so sure #1 | 20:47 |
| ttx | so #3 is preferred to #2 but the people who prefer #2 feel more strongly about it | 20:47 |
| edleafe | dtroyer_zz: avoidance and/or exhaustion | 20:48 |
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| notmorgan | annegentle: very simple phrasing. the expectation is you will demonstrate it as swift came to the table. | 20:48 |
| notmorgan | but if that means i really mean option #1, then sure, option 1 | 20:48 |
| thingee | If you're concerned about community divide, I think either decision is going to result in that... so we shouldn't use that argument. | 20:48 |
| jroll | notmorgan: well, the question is who you must demonstrate it to | 20:48 |
| edleafe | ttx: so what happens when someone doesn't think the "clear description" applies to their case? | 20:48 |
| jroll | notmorgan: if that is "project leadership" e.g. "ironic core team", I think that means #1. I think #2 means "TC" | 20:49 |
| mestery | edleafe: Which will happen almost immediatly | 20:49 |
| edleafe | s/someone/some project | 20:49 |
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| ttx | So here is what I propose | 20:49 |
| notmorgan | i'd also be ok with saying "and not to replace the wsgi/API layer" | 20:49 |
| ttx | morgan can champion option #2 | 20:49 |
| notmorgan | ttx: sounds to me i'm championing #1 | 20:49 |
| notmorgan | based on the folks here. | 20:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: that wasn't my read really, #2 was just there are some guidelines, I thought? | 20:49 |
| mestery | notmorgan: I think it does too | 20:49 |
| * dims champion's #2 :) | 20:49 | |
| ttx | Someone (I'll do it if nobody else has the energy for it) can champion option #3 | 20:49 |
| sdague | notmorgan: honestly, I would be much more comfortable with a project that was fully go than half and half | 20:49 |
| * edleafe would champion #3 if he were on the TC | 20:50 | |
| mugsie|mobile | Well, are we not already in #2 if projects have to get TC approval? | 20:50 |
| notmorgan | but lets be fair, i am at the point of "can we stop with this convo, we already have javascript, some java, bash, python, etc" | 20:50 |
| mugsie|mobile | As the current policy allows for TC allowed exceptions | 20:50 |
| notmorgan | and i'm willing to go with "hey infra, is this going to be a problem specifically with our resources and do you have a solid reason not to support go" | 20:50 |
| thingee | mugsie|mobile: that's a question of who would police this. thread has said TC to community. | 20:50 |
| notmorgan | from that standpoint | 20:50 |
| annegentle | ttx I'm not totally sure what tasks it would take to get to #3 | 20:50 |
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| bswartz | we have java? | 20:50 |
| dhellmann | notmorgan : and docs, and release, and i18n, and... | 20:50 |
| notmorgan | bswartz: some. not a lot. | 20:51 |
| anteaya | notmorgan: I don't think the decision is infra's | 20:51 |
| sdague | because the boundary and skills are very different at that point. I think assuming that you are going to get a bunch of folks that are good at reviewing 2 langs in one tree is odd. | 20:51 |
| * bswartz blinks | 20:51 | |
| ttx | annegentle: right, up to the champion to come up with a description of what his world would look like | 20:51 |
| anteaya | infra's job is to support the decisions the tc makes, not make them | 20:51 |
| mtreinish | sdague: ++ | 20:51 |
| edleafe | anteaya: but infra's feedback is majorly important | 20:51 |
| dims | dhellmann : i spent a few days looking at kubernetes repo | 20:51 |
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| notmorgan | anteaya: i am asking if itwould cause an issue with resources. | 20:51 |
| annegentle | #3 is pretty sweeping technically isn't it ttx ? | 20:51 |
| jroll | johnthetubaguy: I guess I'm trying to understand where morgan is at, but if #2 is "follow these guidelines" it's roughly equivalent to #1 to me (because the real concerns are fragmenting community and such, and I don't think usage boundaries will help that) | 20:51 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: after that, i'm willing to accept it. | 20:51 |
| anteaya | edleafe: yes it is, but infra is in the business of how, not what | 20:51 |
| sdague | ttx: I guess that's a #5 | 20:51 |
| ttx | I thought the temperature read would bury #3, but since it's not buried, we need to investigate how feasiable it would be | 20:51 |
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| anteaya | notmorgan: that is a different question, and a fair one for infra | 20:51 |
| sdague | #1 except the whole project has to be in one language | 20:52 |
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| ttx | sdague: oh boy, a new one | 20:52 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: if there is a real concern aka, we don't have resources, we can't do it because golang is doesn't produce the same results in CI and we need to solve that first" | 20:52 |
| dims | sdague : i can buy that | 20:52 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: then we have a hit list that needs to be addressed first | 20:52 |
| ttx | sdague: not sure what that one brings ? | 20:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: ah, gotcha | 20:52 |
| bswartz | sdague: that's a good idea but it kills horizon doesn't it? | 20:52 |
| sdague | it brings a much more defined boundary | 20:52 |
| fungi | bswartz: "have" java in the sense that there are java-based projects using our infrastructure, running jobs there and publishing/releasing from there | 20:52 |
| ttx | sdague: avoid dual-language core reviewers ? | 20:52 |
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| dougwig | if #3, what about all the data plane projects that are currently in python? shouldn't the ideological divide apply there? | 20:52 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: and that is what i feel infra has said that it isn't an issue. | 20:53 |
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| anteaya | notmorgan: right and as far as I know, notmyname has been working on an etherpad to address these questions | 20:53 |
| dtroyer_zz | bswartz: that particular point keeps getting lost... | 20:53 |
| dims | sdague : do we then say, new project cannot do what swift does? | 20:53 |
| sdague | in the same way we assume projects interop over REST to each other, we assume that is a language neutral boundary we're all good with | 20:53 |
| flaper87 | dougwig: data plane is really the wrong distinction | 20:53 |
| anteaya | notmorgan: it will be work, infra has not said the work is insurmountable, not that I have seen | 20:53 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: right and that is where i place my blockers outside of that... i'm for adding/accepting it. | 20:53 |
| sdague | because otherwise we're going to get all these odd internal cross language protocols that are different in every instance | 20:53 |
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| * jroll wonders how the oslo team feels given there could eventually be a flood of oslo libs written in go | 20:54 | |
| dougwig | flaper87: ok then, how about !control plane? | 20:54 |
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| anteaya | notmorgan: that is fine, as long as we are clear that infra is not left being responsible for more that it is willing to be | 20:54 |
| dhellmann | sdague : does that mean these projects wouldn't emit notifications on the message bus? | 20:54 |
| edleafe | sdague: you'll also have two sets of cores for a project | 20:54 |
| flaper87 | dougwig: still wrong, you're kicking out glance, basically. | 20:54 |
| sdague | dhellmann: they'd need an oslo.messaging | 20:54 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: nope, i am asking for technical reasons based on our CI and infra that would be the reasons to hold off accepting | 20:54 |
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| sdague | and config, log | 20:54 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: not "is this a good idea" | 20:54 |
| notmorgan | anteaya: we're on the same page. | 20:54 |
| dougwig | flaper87: yeah, i'm highlighting that it's an odd distinction we're drawing. | 20:54 |
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| jroll | sdague: ++ curious how oslo team feels here | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | for the record. if we make a decision that is kicking a project out, i am against it categorically | 20:55 |
| anteaya | notmorgan: seems we are, yes | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | based upon this topic. | 20:55 |
| * flaper87 is trying to understand what #5 looks like | 20:55 | |
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| dims | harlowja : around? | 20:55 |
| thingee | five mins left | 20:55 |
| ttx | Last question, I know who feels strongly against #3, who feels strongly against #2 ? | 20:55 |
| annegentle | partially my sense is that #3 is where reality is sitting for swift, they have the ability to "plugin" and operate some golang code. Maybe I'm wrong though. | 20:55 |
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| gordc | lucky for swift, they don't use oslo. (unless that's changed) | 20:55 |
| dhellmann | jroll : I hope no one is expecting the Oslo team to write those things. Some might, but I don't really know how many are interested. | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | i worry #3 leads to dropping swift | 20:55 |
| notmorgan | that is my strongest concern there. | 20:56 |
| annegentle | gordc oh yeah and it's a total pain to scrape their config opt | 20:56 |
| jroll | annegentle: they'd essentially need to move all of swift out of openstack, or ship that piece outside of openstack as a replacement to an in-openstack thing | 20:56 |
| jroll | dhellmann: ++ | 20:56 |
| edleafe | notmorgan: but isn't hummingbird more of a plugin for swift? | 20:56 |
| ttx | notmorgan: would you have some time in the coming week so that we can study this more closely ? | 20:56 |
| sdague | dhellmann: no, I would expect that to be part of the cost of bringing in a new language environment | 20:56 |
| notmorgan | ttx: maybe. | 20:56 |
| mestery | jroll: Right, notmyname said as much last week at the meeting I believe | 20:56 |
| dims | ttx : i'd oppose #3 | 20:56 |
| johnthetubaguy | I thought the go bit of swift plugged into the python API bit? | 20:56 |
| jroll | edleafe: no, it's a replacement of one "binary" required to run swift | 20:56 |
| dtroyer_zz | sdague: +++ | 20:56 |
| jroll | AIUI | 20:56 |
| edleafe | notmorgan: in the same sense as a C library in Python | 20:56 |
| harlowja | dims whats up | 20:56 |
| ttx | dims: noted. Wondering if anyone strongly opposes #2 | 20:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: hmm, I thought I checked that last week, and I was told the opposite | 20:57 |
| thingee | ttx: I'm against #2 so far ... just because I haven't heard a good "description" of this special casing would happen. | 20:57 |
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| thingee | or who would police it | 20:57 |
| ttx | thingee: noted | 20:57 |
| dougwig | why would we keep the python backend for swift in openstack, if the recommended backend by that team is the go version? just because it's python? | 20:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: but that was my initial assumption | 20:57 |
| jroll | johnthetubaguy: I could be wrong, but I'm curious how they're plugging go into python if so | 20:57 |
| harlowja | i don't mind learning go, as long as there are people to help in supporting it (aka, oslo not == go dumping ground, lol) | 20:57 |
| mestery | Right, the distinction between #1 and #2 is the line we draw, and that will be hard to do | 20:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | jroll: +1 | 20:57 |
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| flaper87 | thingee: ++ | 20:57 |
| sdague | I mostly think the details of #2 are hard to get right | 20:57 |
| thingee | sdague: yes | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | sdague: could you summarize #5 in the review ? | 20:58 |
| notmyname | jroll: johnthetubaguy: happy to go over it, but not going to happen in the last 2 minutes | 20:58 |
| dims | mestery : ttx : #1 is open season, so we can skip that | 20:58 |
| ttx | sdague: #3 is not easier,might even be impossible | 20:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | so I was seeing #2 as a set of guidelines | 20:58 |
| jroll | johnthetubaguy: sounds like it's the object server rewritten, notmyname correct? | 20:58 |
| gordc | sdague: agreed, same for #3. | 20:58 |
| redbo | It's not an API binding, hummingbird is a web server. | 20:58 |
| harlowja | go already uses the equivalent of oslo.config anyway via flags (The precursor to oslo.config anyway); so there u go :-P | 20:58 |
| notmorgan | edleafe: possibly, i worry if you say hummingbird is a plugin, you now have a thing where swift is recommended "don't use the python impl" | 20:58 |
| flaper87 | ttx: time check | 20:58 |
| ttx | flaper87: moving to Open discussion onw | 20:58 |
| ttx | now | 20:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | if #2 means its policed by some central group, I am against it | 20:58 |
| johnthetubaguy | at least I think I am | 20:58 |
| dims | johnthetubaguy : #2 is guidlines we publish | 20:58 |
| dims | IMHO | 20:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | dims: right, thats fine | 20:59 |
| * edleafe admires johnthetubaguy's certainty! | 20:59 | |
| notmorgan | johnthetubaguy: i'd just opt out of gating things at that point. | 20:59 |
| ttx | I identified stakeholders for the next step, and will be in touch, trying to make progress with a resolution on this | 20:59 |
| ttx | #topic Open discussion | 20:59 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)" | 20:59 | |
| ttx | Last minute comments on anything else ? | 20:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | edleafe: well, I mean in the context of defining #2 | 20:59 |
| notmyname | I'm not a fan of the whole "2 gladiators fighting it out for their respective armies" thing (ie champions for some viewpoint that then represent that view to everyone) | 20:59 |
| ttx | notmyname: oh, that's not what I meant | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | uh | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | i have last mingute thing | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | sec | 21:00 |
| dims | notmyname : i think i signed up to propose a change to the review to reflect #2 :) | 21:00 |
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| notmorgan | gothicmindfood wanted to communicate that for the leadership thing, she will be sending an email out to the atendees in the next couple days | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | look for it | 21:00 |
| edleafe | johnthetubaguy: :) | 21:00 |
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| notmyname | dims: ack :-) | 21:00 |
| notmorgan | we have a full (20 person) session scheduled. | 21:00 |
| annegentle | cool notmorgan | 21:00 |
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| ttx | notmyname: I'm trying to see who cares enough to spend some time on refining what their solution would look like. | 21:01 |
| notmorgan | so 24-48hrs there should be an email to the individuals not to the ML | 21:01 |
| jroll | woot | 21:01 |
| anteaya | ttx: that was how I interpreted it | 21:01 |
| * notmorgan is going to lean on notmyname for help on this championing | 21:01 | |
| thingee | time | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | ttx: ok | 21:01 |
| notmorgan | notmyname: you're getting volunteered ;) | 21:01 |
| notmorgan | hehe | 21:01 |
| ttx | notmyname: I'll be in touch with you so that you can explain to me the various reasons why #3 is just plain impossible. | 21:01 |
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| notmyname | ttx: ok :-) | 21:01 |
| ttx | (like, technically) | 21:01 |
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| ttx | alright time is up | 21:02 |
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| ttx | #endmeeting | 21:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Tue May 24 21:02:23 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:02 |
| ttx | Thanks everyone | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-24-20.01.html | 21:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-24-20.01.txt | 21:02 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-05-24-20.01.log.html | 21:02 |
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| dims | ttx : thanks for herding us cats as usual :) | 21:03 |
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| ttx | dims: it doesn't get easier with time, or maybe I'm getting old | 21:04 |
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| dims | :) | 21:04 |
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| rockyg | ttx, nah, everyone else's fingers are just typing faster | 21:06 |
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