Wednesday, 2016-05-25

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b1airo#startmeeting scientific-wg07:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 07:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.07:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"07:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'07:00
b1airoHi all07:00
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b1aironow how do I give oneswig chair too?07:01
b1airolet's try this...07:01
b1airo#chair oneswig07:01
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo oneswig07:01
oneswigpower of IRC is strong!07:01
oneswig#topic roll call07:01
*** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"07:01
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verdurinAdam from the Crick here07:02
oneswigHi Adam07:02
b1airohi Adam, thanks for joinging07:02
noggin143Tim from CERN07:03
oneswigHi Tim07:03
b1airohi Tim, i hoped this time would suit - glad it seems too07:04
oneswigWe are down a bit from last week's 20-odd though...07:04
b1airoyeah, that was fairly impressive07:04
oneswigOK shall we go through the agenda07:05
oneswig#topic Action items from last week07:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last week (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"07:05
oneswigI had an item to look at user stories and how they might fit07:06
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verdurinI see I need to add eMedLab to
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oneswigI looked through the Product WG pages, there's some good infrastructure there07:06
oneswigverdurin: yes please07:06
b1airomy 3 primary items are in progress, nothing finished there yet but should have some wiki updates to publish over the weekend07:06
b1airoyes please verdurin - i have scraped that once already but will circle back07:07
oneswigb1airo: great, will be good to see.  Our page might need subdividing it's getting big07:07
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verdurinb1airo: will do so by the end of the week07:08
b1airoyeah i intended to add this stuff as sub-pages - the etherpad de-convolution is taking a bit of head scratching (doesn't help when i try to look at it at night)07:08
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oneswigI had an item to chase up on the BMC issues we have with the Ironic team.  I exchanged some mails but didn't file the bug they suggested yet.07:08
b1airoverdurin, did you fill out our little google survey during the summit? (about your deployment/s)07:08
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verdurinb1airo: I filled in the normal survey, as I have done before - was there an extra one?07:09
oneswigb1airo: is there any process for "garbage collection" of old etherpads or do they remain in the historical record in perpetuity?07:09
b1airoverdurin, we created one specific to hpc/science workloads with questions not asked in the main user survey07:10
oneswigb1airo: where's that #link?07:10
b1airolet me find the link for you - would be great to have your data there too if you can spare the five minutes07:10
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verdurinb1airo: sure, happy to fill in that one too07:10
b1airooneswig, not that i'm aware of07:11
oneswigOK so what actions have rolled over?07:11
oneswig#action oneswig to capture iDRAC BMC failure mode in a bug on python-dracclient07:12
oneswig#action b1airo to continue with transfer of content to wiki from etherpads07:13
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oneswigany others from last week?07:13
oneswig#topic Parallel filesystems07:13
*** openstack changes topic to "Parallel filesystems (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"07:13
oneswigThere were some useful discussions on parallel filesystems but I wasn't part of them - was anyone here in that session?07:14
b1airoOpenStack Science & HPC usage survey:07:14
b1airooneswig, re. actions we should roll over at least these:07:14
verdurinIBM have sent out a survey on OpenStack and GPFS, which I will be filling in at some point.07:14
oneswigverdurin: was it public, can you share a #link to it?07:14
b1airowe had a brief email exchange with an IBM developer, sounds like they have a lot of interesting features/possibilities, particularly around exposing things in GPFS via Swift API07:15
oneswigverdurin: thanks07:15
verdurinThey had a talk on OpenStack at the user group meeting in London last week.07:16
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oneswigFilesystems are becoming increasingly object stores as well.  I heard that Red Hat are defaulting to using Ceph's object store as backing store for Ceilometer time-series data (via Gnocchi)07:17
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b1airothe only problem with these integrations is that it seems to be hard to do it with upstream projects and requires using some version of an upstream project (e.g. Swift servers) that the vendor has "tweaked" behind closed doors07:17
noggin143we've been testing the gnocchi ceph backend. Seems more scalable than ceilometer but still early days07:17
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verdurinYes, there's a lot of room for improvement in the Swift integration with GPFS.07:18
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oneswignoggin143: any feel for aggregate sampling rate it can sustain for a given Ceph deployment size?07:18
verdurinThough it's a lot better now than it was last year.07:18
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b1airoverdurin, are you using that particular integration?07:19
noggin143oneswig: doing functional tests at the moment, packaging and puppet so it's a bit early07:20
oneswigOK thanks, I'd be interested to hear how it works out07:20
verdurinb1airo: Not at the moment - just observations of the infrastructure07:20
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b1airoregarding the break-out HPFS group in the scientific-wg meeting - i was there but didn't have a lot of luck bringing discussion back to concrete deliverables beyond use-case doco07:20
verdurinb1airo: that's in eMedLab. For Crick, it's something we might explore.07:21
b1airothough we did agree there were several different angles to come at it:07:21
oneswigb1airo: was there a volunteer to lead this activity?07:22
b1airo1) plumbing existing non-cloud HPFS into a cloud, so largely network focused, e.g., neutron provider net for hpc-data with filesystem in some reserved part of the subnet range07:22
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b1airooneswig, no, maybe worth calling out on the list?07:23
oneswigI'll note tha07:24
b1airo2) manila integration07:24
b1airo3) fully cloud-ified, i.e., filesystem servers run on the IaaS, presumably mainly for dev/test purposes07:24
oneswig#action Seek a volunteer to lead the WG activities around parallel filesystems07:25
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b1airoat Monash we are doing #1 with Lustre07:25
oneswigAs part of the wiki organisation it would be great to have a sub-page for each ativity07:26
oneswigWe have an interesting project at Cambridge underway wrt #307:26
oneswigLong way off at present though.07:26
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oneswigWe have RDMA-enabled JBODs in our cloud, hoping to use iSER to provision lustre in the cloud that isn't dreadful07:27
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b1airo#1 seems to work pretty well, at least when you have hardware/SRIOV NICs into instances. but having said that we are seeing a few "odd" dmesg warnings that seem to indicate comms issues between clients and OSTs, yet to really get anywhere with that (causes occasional I/O blips for clients)07:28
oneswigverdurin: am I right in thinking that eMedLab uses GPFS for serving Cinder volumes?07:28
verdurinoneswig: yes07:28
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oneswigb1airo: is the provider network you're using L3 or L2?07:28
b1airooneswig, should work! ;-)07:28
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verdurinYes, L207:29
oneswigb1airo verdurin: good to know, thanks, that'll help our deployment plans07:29
b1airoso can use o2ib LNET with Ethernet vNICs in the guests07:29
b1airolet's talk about accounting and scheduling then?07:30
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oneswigAh yes.  No more on HPFS?07:30
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b1airodid noggin143 volunteer to lead that activity ?07:30
oneswig#topic Accounting and scheduling07:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Accounting and scheduling (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"07:31
noggin143I didn't volunteer…07:31
b1airohappy to talk more about that, by all means, just thinking Tim might be more interested in it07:31
b1airo:-) no worries, i was guessing07:31
noggin143Matt Jarvis was chairing the discussions at the summit but I don't know if he wants to take it on07:31
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oneswigOK, let's make a note to find a leader for accounting and scheduling07:32
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noggin143I did review the product WG user story. It seems more reservation than quotas07:32
oneswig#action Find a leader for the activities on accounting and scheduling07:32
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oneswigThere were references to group quotas, do these not go far enough?07:33
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noggin143It remindered me of Blazar07:33
b1airohave you tried Blazar?07:33
oneswigBlazar is resurrected in the Chameleon project, did you hear that07:34
noggin143We never tried blazar (it needed to get more momentum) … would be interested to read about Chameleon07:34
verdurinI must say project proliferation isn't always helpful...07:34
noggin143There is also some work going on with INFN in the EU Indigo Project called Symphony to add some fair share and pre-emptable instances07:35
oneswigThe user story is missing something like "As a cloud service provider, I want to manage the resource usage for a project as a single entity comprising the sum of its users" - is that what they are missing?07:35
noggin143I think the user story is completely valid but it is not, from my perspective, the HTC/HPC user story for quotas07:36
dariovhi there, sorry for being late, Dario from EMBL-EBI here07:36
b1airoverdurin, i agree - Blazar seems like one of those ideas where lots of people like/want the features but because it isn't part of Nova they are not sure it's safe to integrate. i also think it's hard to (quickly, from scanning the wiki) determine the impact of deploying it from the user and operator perspective07:36
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b1airohi dariov, thanks for coming!07:37
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b1aironoggin143, Symphony sounds very interesting from the NeCTAR perspective07:38
oneswignoggin143: Do you think that is a separate user story or should it be proposed as a consideration for this story?07:38
b1airohadn't heard about that07:38
noggin143I went to a talk at the summit about the Chameleon Cloud if that is the same thing.07:38
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noggin143They talked about Blazar too.07:38
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oneswignoggin143: that's the one07:38
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noggin143Not sure what the product WG's preference would be between increasing the complexity of a user story or defining a new one07:39
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noggin143I think there are significant additional needs from the research sector which would potentially overwhelm the current user story07:40
b1airoi went to the chameleon talk too but had forgotten the mention of preemption07:40
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oneswigOK we should note some actions, what can we do to move the discussion forward?07:40
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oneswigI have been in contact with the PI from Chameleon previously, I can find out what the state of Blazar is and report back07:41
noggin143#action Tim to follow up with the product WG on research quota user story integration07:41
oneswigThanks Tim07:41
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oneswig#action oneswig to follow up with Chameleon project re: state of Blazar07:41
oneswigAny others?07:42
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oneswig#topic User stories07:42
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oneswigOK, I did a cursory amount of investigation on this.  I think we've covered the user stories from the Product WG already.07:43
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oneswigThey have a process for proposing and reviewing them based on code review of a repo of RST documents07:43
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oneswigVery much in the form of spec review07:43
b1airoyep, but what of the scope?07:44
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oneswigIt would be interesting to consider what capabilities might be added from a research computing use case07:44
oneswigb1airo: do you mean, what do we get out of creating user stories?07:45
b1airono i mean at what level should they be scoped, i.e.07:46
oneswig#link user stories filed thus far
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b1airoi'm a cloud architect who wants to integrate my HPC filesystem into blah datacloud07:46
b1airois that the right level or too specific07:46
oneswigNot sure.  The documents have predefined structure, which should guide the level of detail.  They aren't more than a few pages07:47
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b1airolooking at the current proposed list i wonder if that example would be not specific enough07:47
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oneswig#link random user story about integrating an external capability into a cloud environment
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oneswigThere's quite a bit more detail in that sample-of-one07:49
verdurinI think there's room for a variation on
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b1airoright, definitely no particular standard scoping there then it would seem07:50
verdurinwhere you're migrating from bare-metal, not virtualized07:50
verdurin(I haven't looked at these links before, so forgive me if that's obvious)07:50
oneswigThe Product WG is unfamiliar to me as well07:51
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b1airoi'm a bit confused about what is supposed to be - they seem to really be feature specs rather than particular user-stories07:51
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b1airoor, a mix07:52
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oneswigI think there's more discussion to be had here but we ought to move on.  Can we take an action to think around how/where user stories might help?07:52
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oneswig#action Group action to consider ways in which user stories might help for research computing use cases07:53
b1airosounds good07:53
oneswigReference architectures: Tim I found a couple of places where CERN's architecture (among others) is described in fairly high-level details in ops guides.07:53
b1airomy initial feeling was that, in the first instance, it would help to simply document some of the deployment architectures/choices that would be relevant to research/hpc use-cases07:53
oneswigIs there a specific place where reference architectures are kept, and kept current?07:54
oneswigb1airo: agreed07:54
b1airothings that answer the "can i do hpc with openstack?" question07:54
noggin143the CERN architecture has some oldish use case descriptions.07:54
noggin143it is more HTC than HPC though07:54
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oneswignoggin143: true - I'm just thinking if others were to be created, where would they reside?07:55
b1airooneswig, wiki for the moment i guess07:55
noggin143#link is one place with a reasonably high profile07:55
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noggin143but this is not really reference architectures.07:55
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oneswigGood link.  Is this a discussion item for the user committee mailing list?07:56
noggin143my feeling is that probably the formal HPC reference architecture should go into the project navigator07:57
b1airooh PS, not sure if i mentioned or knew this last week, but i'm now looking after - seems relevant for us to steer under this group07:57
oneswigI have found considerable effort has gone into documenting configuration items, but a reference architecture as an integrated entity - they all refer to (eg) Grizzly, Havana that I have found07:57
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b1airooneswig, yes good thing to raise with user-committee list07:58
b1aironoggin143, yes Flanders wants a few things there by the sound of it07:58
oneswignoggin143: I hadn't seen the sample-configs page before, thanks for sharing.07:58
noggin143the sample configs are nice in that they are active content and link to the project selection07:59
oneswigYes, hopefully they won't go stale07:59
oneswigI wonder why when I search for these things, I did not find this08:00
b1aironoggin143, agreed, all that stuff under /software is a slick addition08:00
dariovguys, I’m quite new to how this kind of project works, but let us know if we can help in some way08:00
dariovany pointer to a good entry point would be helpful, by the way08:00
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b1airodariov, so are we ;-)08:00
oneswigdariov: are you on the user-committee or openstack-operators lists?  Good place to start08:00
dariovyep, there already08:00
oneswigwe are out of time, thanks everyone08:00
oneswigAny final comments?08:01
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dariovok, great that’s a general feeling ;-)08:01
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verdurinI'm interested in the white paper mentioned in the agenda08:01
oneswigWe'll have to follow up on that another time08:01
b1airooneswig, yeah the google is a problem, presumably foundation folks are already looking at SEO08:01
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b1airoi did recently add a link from the wiki getting started page to /software08:02
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openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 08:02:28 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)08:02
openstackMinutes (text):
b1airoverdurin, we can discuss on mailing list if you like but have to wrap up now in case others are coming along08:02
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verdurinb1airo: yes, of course08:02
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b1airodinner for me, see you next time!08:03
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verdurinbye - have to go to work...08:03
oneswiguntil next time!08:03
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BobBall#startmeeting XenAPI09:30
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 09:30:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.09:31
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"09:31
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'xenapi'09:31
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BobBallGood morning / afternoon / evening all09:31
BobBalljohnthetubaguy: pingity ping :)09:31
* johnthetubaguy is lurking with intent to read09:31
BobBallGood intent09:31
jianghuawGood morning Bob&johnthetubaguy.09:31
BobBallWell - we need you for the first bit johnthetubaguy :)09:31
BobBall#topic Blueprints / Reviews09:32
*** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints / Reviews (Meeting topic: XenAPI)"09:32
BobBallWe're rapidly approaching non-priority blueprint freeze09:32
BobBallThe three blueprints in are still pending core reviewers09:32
BobBallSorry, four09:32
BobBall - XenAPI: support VGPU via passthrough PCI09:32
BobBall - XenAPI independent hypervisor (fixing interaction layer between Nova + Hypervisor)09:32
BobBall - Xenapi: a new VDI store via streaming09:32
BobBall - Xenerver compute driver support neutron security group09:32
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BobBallLet's go through them one at a time?09:33
BobBalljohnthetubaguy: Any further thoughts on ?09:33
huanxiehi all09:33
BobBallThat's the VGPU spec09:33
johnthetubaguyI just added a comment, I think we need to point to the code09:33
BobBallComment 1 minute ago :D09:33
BobBallOh - against sdagues comment?09:34
BobBallDo you want the reference in the spec?09:34
johnthetubaguymore just in the comments09:34
johnthetubaguywe don't have any decent docs on this stuff09:34
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BobBallOK; jianghuaw can you add an update there?09:34
johnthetubaguyso its hard to tell when the API is changing09:34
BobBallAh - Moshe Levi added the reference to the code09:35
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johnthetubaguyah, I was just going to double check devref09:35
jianghuawI didn't get much reference on that.09:35
BobBallclearly someone is watching the spec :)09:35
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BobBallDo you have any other comments johnthetubaguy? Or are you close to a +2? :)09:35
jianghuawBut that's the way I know how pci pass-through can work.09:35
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BobBalljianghuaw: It's OK - the reference to the code has been added09:36
jianghuawah, yes. I see it.09:37
johnthetubaguynot sure I am close to a +2 yet, just getting my head around it all really09:37
BobBallfair enough - if we could request a re-review then that would be appreciated09:38
johnthetubaguyso follow on question09:38
johnthetubaguywhat is the ":1" bit for?09:38
BobBallIt's the number of instances you are requesting09:38
BobBallSee the comment above
BobBall    The pci_passthrough:alias scope in flavor extra_specs09:38
BobBall    describes the flavor's pci requests, the key is09:38
BobBall    'pci_passthrough:alias' and the value has format09:38
BobBall    'alias_name_x:count, alias_name_y:count, ... '. The alias_name is09:38
BobBall    defined in 'pci_alias' configurations.09:38
johnthetubaguyhmm, I se this bit now:
BobBallIt's almost always going to be 1 (IMO it would have been better if the original PCI spec had said that if the :<count> was missing it would default to 1)09:39
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johnthetubaguyso the problem here, is we are modifying a bit of code that has few docs, and few folks who understand it, so it takes time to agree things, sadly09:41
johnthetubaguyanyways, getting there09:41
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BobBallI just hope we can get there fast enough.  Just 1 week to no priority feature freeze09:41
BobBallhence us pushing quite hard now :)09:42
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johnthetubaguyoh wait, the alternatives sections...09:42
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johnthetubaguydid we decide to only expose one type per host09:42
johnthetubaguywe should cover the alternative, in that alternatives section09:42
johnthetubaguyso we remember why we are not doing that09:43
BobBallGood point09:43
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jianghuawsure, I will update it.09:43
BobBallLet's move on to the next spec09:43
BobBall - XenAPI independent hypervisor (fixing interaction layer between Nova + Hypervisor)09:43
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BobBallI've addressed your comments and removed the link to the new VDI store via streaming BP09:44
BobBallSo I think the next step is if you could re-review it and let me know what your thoughts are?09:44
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johnthetubaguyyeah, did you get my concerns on the functional tests09:45
johnthetubaguyI just worry if we add more code branches09:45
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johnthetubaguyif its just checks about not being able to do certain things, then that doesn't feel as bad, for sure09:45
johnthetubaguyI guess we will need to always stream config drive to the hypervisor?09:46
johnthetubaguyto take that approach09:46
BobBallI do understand the concerns, yes.  I hoped that my comments would reassure you :)09:46
BobBallNo reason not to.  It's a small enough drive to just create in-guest and then stream to the hypervisor in a 'supported' way09:46
BobBallWrong use of ''s there... Supported + potentially isolated way09:47
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johnthetubaguyyeah, thats all fine09:47
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johnthetubaguyoh, one thing comes to mind about partition_utils09:48
johnthetubaguydo you know what the load will be on Dom0?09:48
BobBallIt should be very low09:48
BobBallWe're not planning to do anything big in there iirc?09:48
johnthetubaguyI thought we created ext3 filesystems09:49
BobBalldo you know the load of resizing the partition in domU?09:49
johnthetubaguyfor ephemeral disks09:49
BobBallYeah - but that's quite quick even for large disks09:49
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johnthetubaguyI got the impression the load isn't minimal09:49
johnthetubaguyext4 would be quick, but ext3 has to do a lot more work, I believe09:49
johnthetubaguyI had forgot about that until now09:50
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BobBallWhat level of 'load' do you think would be concerning?09:50
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johnthetubaguyhonestly, this is based more on my laptop fan getting excited when doing this inside a VM running XenServer09:50
BobBallAnd what load are you thinking of? bytes written to disk? CPU load?09:50
johnthetubaguymore CPU load, honestly09:50
johnthetubaguydisk load will kinda be the same, I am guessing09:51
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BobBallThey will both be the same; but in a different place (i.e. dom0 vs the scheduled domU)09:51
johnthetubaguyI suspect I am overthinking it, its just something thats worth checking09:51
johnthetubaguyright, but the compute node has throttled CPU, dom0 less so09:51
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johnthetubaguyit would be bad if other guests saw issues during a resize, etc09:52
BobBallWell - while it does have access to it's CPUs, it still has Dom0 has a fixed number of them09:52
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johnthetubaguywell, thats the problem09:52
johnthetubaguythe CPUs in Dom0 are needed to keep the guests responsive09:52
johnthetubaguynot so for the compute node VM CPUs09:52
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BobBallYes; so how many CPUs for how long would be worrying?09:53
BobBalli.e. if it had the potential to use up to 100% of one CPU (single threaded task, obviously) for 30 seconds, would that be worrying?09:53
johnthetubaguyyeah, that would be a worry09:53
BobBallClearly we can nice it if you like09:53
johnthetubaguynice is probably a good iea09:53
johnthetubaguyits more, I would like to know the rough impact, on a good size VM09:54
BobBallOK; so I'll update the spec to say we will use nice to lower the priority of the intensive tasks such as mkfs.ext309:54
johnthetubaguylets just double check if its terrible09:54
johnthetubaguyyeah, that works09:54
BobBallGood size = how much disk?09:54
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johnthetubaguyhmm, 200GB or something like that?09:55
BobBallI will check.09:56
BobBallOK, next spec.. :)09:56
BobBall - Xenerver compute driver support neutron security group09:56
BobBallHopefully this is a very simple one :)09:56
BobBallThe nutshell is that we want to do the same thing as libvirt to get security groups working in Neutron09:56
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BobBalllibvirt sets up a Linux Bridge that it can apply iptables rules to09:56
BobBalland we want to do the same thing09:56
huanxieyes, main part is creating linux bridge09:56
BobBallIt hasn't had a review yet, but if you remember this is the change that you reviewed a while ago and requested a simple spec to make it clear what we were doing09:57
johnthetubaguyso the linux bridge is created inside the compute VM?09:57
BobBallNo - Dom009:57
huanxieyes, Dom009:57
johnthetubaguyso you are running both linux bridge and ovs in Dom0?09:57
BobBallyes; which is also what libvirt does (ovs+bridge)09:58
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BobBall*but* clearly we only want to add a linux bridge if security groups are applied and you're using the appropriate firewall driver09:58
BobBallSo if you don't select a firewall driver (or you use a different one, which I guess you do at RAX) then it doesn't affect you09:59
BobBallBut it is clearly critical to getting neutron support as it's the only way we can get security groups with the upstreamed drivers09:59
johnthetubaguyso the spec doesn't mention about this being in a firewall driver09:59
johnthetubaguyand that it needs to be configured10:00
johnthetubaguyi.e. its optional10:00
huanxieI will update that10:00
BobBallYes; we will make it clear; i.e. it will not affect Rackspace as I understand your deployment10:00
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johnthetubaguythats not my main concern here, just trying to work out what the impact is10:01
BobBallFinally - you said you would have a closer look at this spec :)10:01
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johnthetubaguyso just to be clear10:01
johnthetubaguyNova is doing the security groups, and not neutron?10:02
johnthetubaguyor does Nova just put in place the bridge, that neutron detects and updates?10:02
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huanxieneutron will write security group rules10:02
huanxiebut the rules are applied on linux bridge10:02
BobBallMy understanding is that Neutron requires security groups to be enabled (e.g. some Neutron tempest tests depend on security groups)10:03
huanxieAnd the linux bridge should be created during booting VM, so we mainly do the creating linux bridge work10:03
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johnthetubaguyyeah, its just some neutron things actually make nova add the rules10:03
johnthetubaguyits a bit odd, so glad thats not the case here10:03
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BobBallIndeed; this is just 'standard' Nova; just a part that is expected to work :/10:04
huanxieyes, neutron does most of the rules on the linux bridge, and nova create the linux bridge10:04
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johnthetubaguyOK, added comments on the spec, I think thats close10:05
huanxiethanks a lot10:05
BobBallSo, finally - you said you would have a closer look at this spec :)10:06
johnthetubaguyyeah, and another 20/30 of them, but its not happened10:06
BobBallI can totally understand10:06
johnthetubaguyI think my existing comments still stand10:07
johnthetubaguyah, wait, I am looking at the old version10:07
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johnthetubaguyso testing is the issue here10:08
johnthetubaguyif we start testing this by default10:08
johnthetubaguythe old system will break10:08
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johnthetubaguymaybe we keep the neutron CI on the new one, and the old CI on the old one?10:09
BobBallYeah; can do10:09
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BobBall(Also, we could do the same for the isolated compute change)10:09
jianghuawBut please note: the purpose is to make this new store as default.10:10
johnthetubaguyyeah, I figured that one is harder, as it forces us towards multi-node10:10
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johnthetubaguyyeah, we should probably get the CI running, before we switch over the default10:11
BobBallIsolated compute can be tested even if the compute is embedded - just set the flag10:11
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johnthetubaguyyeah, but you don't stop people "doing things they shouldn't", which is probably quite useful10:12
BobBallI'm sure we can stop the host from attaching any disks to the guest; which is the main problem10:12
johnthetubaguyyeah, that could work10:12
BobBallOK.  Well, I think we've reached time.10:12
BobBallSo - is there anything else we should cover?10:13
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BobBallWe'll work on updating those specs by tomorrow10:13
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BobBalland then, johnthetubaguy, do you mind if I nag you again on Friday, given how close we are to non-priority feature freeze?10:14
huanxieHi, I hope this patchset can be reviewed again
johnthetubaguytotally keep bugging me10:14
jianghuawJohn, if you have time could you help to re-review this patch set?10:14
BobBalljianghuaw: Could we cover that bug next time?10:14
BobBallhuanxie: Same; I think we should focus on BPs10:14
huanxiesure, thanks10:15
BobBallThe deadline for non-priority blueprints is in 1 week's time, so if we can grab any of johnthetubaguy's time I'd personally rather it was looking at specs than those bug fixes - which we have more time for10:15
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johnthetubaguyyeah, specs should be the focus for the moment10:15
jianghuawBob: Got it. Thanks.10:16
BobBallOK - then let's close the meeting there.10:16
BobBallThanks for the feedback johnthetubaguy!10:16
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"10:16
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 10:16:22 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)10:16
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dims#openstack-meeting requirements12:00
dims#startmeeting requirements12:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 12:00:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is dims. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.12:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'requirements'12:00
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dims#topic - Any controversies in the Queue?12:02
*** openstack changes topic to "- Any controversies in the Queue? (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:02
dims#link -*requirements.*+branch:master,n,z12:02
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* tonyb has one that's liberty ....12:03
tonybBump cliff to 2.0.012:03
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number80that's huge for liberty, I agree ...12:03
tonybI've dropped my feedback on the review and invited jd__ to this meetiing to help work out how to progress this12:04
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dimsjd__ : around?12:04
tonybThe actual change (using cliff 2.0.0) is ok, but it's indicative of a bigger question about how managed and non-managed projects work together12:05
dimstonyb : we should just get rid of telemetry project from g-r in liberty just like master12:05
dimstonyb : my patience has worn out12:05
tonybdims: that wont help ...12:05
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dimstonyb : help who? it certainly does not stop us from landing updates to requirements liberty branch12:06
tonybdims: it's happening because ceilometer (liberty) pulls in a bunch of things form master that meet the g-r BUT are not in u-c12:06
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dimstonyb : it's their headache, not ours12:06
tonybhmmm expect there isn't a way to opt out of constarints in dsvm jobs12:07
dimstonyb : they should figure out how to live in the infrastructure jobs and not be constrained12:07
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dimstonyb : yep. not our problem12:07
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dimstonyb : -212:08
prometheanfireif they don't use UC, then they don't get an opinion12:08
dimsprometheanfire : yep12:08
dimsBunch of oslo libs landed yesterday and the sniff tests looks good -
dimstoabctl : hi12:10
coolsvapI think we should think about better sync of the proposal bot patches and ones submitted by dhellmann12:10
tonybdims: have any of the u-c bumps landed?12:10
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prometheanfirecoolsvap: ya, I think they should be botted, not under his name12:10
dimstonyb : nope. i hold them off so we could run sniff tests12:10
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dimsdhellmann : around?12:10
coolsvapprometheanfire, not really that12:10
prometheanfireit'd help me note them for what they are12:10
coolsvapits mostly duplicate effort12:11
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* coolsvap has no problem with name12:11
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prometheanfireyou mean delay a day?12:11
dimscoolsvap : can you take an action to talk to dhellmann later?12:11
coolsvapdims sure12:11
dimsthanks coolsvap12:11
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dims#topic Tasks from etherpad12:12
*** openstack changes topic to "Tasks from etherpad (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:12
coolsvap#action coolsvap to talk to dhellmann about the u-c release patches12:12
dimshas anyone picked up any work from etherpad list of things to do?12:12
dims#action coolsvap to talk to dhellmann about the u-c release patches12:12
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dimscoolsvap : was not sure if the bot would pick up your #action, so i triggered it too12:13
coolsvapdims, np12:13
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coolsvapdims, i have done one very very very small task12:14
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* coolsvap still figuring out where to start 12:14
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dimscoolsvap : ack12:14
tonybcoolsvap: I think the 3.9 was a good thing (apart from reviews)12:15
dimsi guess we did take a stab at cleaning up things from g-r12:15
tonybdims: Yeah a reaonably successful stab I think:)12:15
dimscoolsvap : go for it - " verifies that the versions listed are available for download from PyPi "12:15
dimstonyb :)12:16
coolsvapdims, sure i can start with that effort this week12:16
tonybdims: I think that's done with your py27-with-contstraint job isn't it?12:16
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dimstonyb : don't know if what i have in there is enough12:17
dimscoolsvap : tonyb : we should add a py34-with-constraints too12:17
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dimsthat should be an easy one12:18
tonybdims: ok.  Yeah that's a good point12:18
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dims#topic pyldap - plans to converge on one ldap client12:18
*** openstack changes topic to "pyldap - plans to converge on one ldap client (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:18
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dimsAny of the packagers have concerns?12:19
prometheanfireno concerns, I thought this was somewhat discussed in the last couple of ldap related patches to -requirements already12:20
dirkdims: sort of12:20
dimsprometheanfire : ack, just making sure folks read that thread if anything is lingering :)12:20
dimsdirk : you have the floor12:20
dirkdims: we have quite some packages that require python-ldap outside openstack and that need to be ported somehow12:20
dirkso its not an easy task12:20
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coreycbdims, hi, I brought that up on the ml12:21
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prometheanfireah, here we have both12:21
dirkdims: of course openstack shouldn't be slowed down by non-openstack projects, so its more a downstream issue to take care of12:21
dimsdirk : agree12:21
dirkjust saying that those are the more interuptive things that got merged fairly quickly (to my surprise)12:21
number80well, if it is backward compatible, then no problem to have it in newton (w/ my RDO hat)12:22
dirknumber80: right. I don't know enough about it to be sure of that12:22
dirkthe readme says that "as much as possible backwards compatible"12:22
dirkwhich could mean anything12:22
dimsdirk : until m1 we can be a bit loose as folks are experimenting esp python312:22
tonybAren;t they in different namespaces so apart from the issue ubuntu has with main/universe why can't you just have both?12:23
dimsok so action item for all of you concerned to continue on coreycb 's ML thread :)12:23
toabctltonyb, python-ldap and pyldap use the same namespace iirc12:23
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tonybtoabctl: Oh.12:23
dirktonyb: no, they install into the same place12:24
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dirkdims: agreed12:24
toabctltonyb, pyldap is a fork of python-ldap with py3 support12:24
coreycbpyldap is a it's a drop in replacement I believe for python-ldap12:24
coreycbw/ py3 support12:24
prometheanfireRDEPEND+=" !dev-python/pyldap"12:25
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prometheanfireRDEPEND+=" !dev-python/python-ldap"12:25
prometheanfirewe disallow their installation with eachother12:25
dimssorry network drop12:25
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prometheanfireis how we 'fix' it, so something to keep in mind maybe?12:25
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number80we can't ship both at the same time, and drop-in replacement w/o strong compatibility guarantees mean it could break other stuff12:25
dirknumber80: right12:26
dirknumber80: I guess the intention of the project is to be backwards compatible, but as you know, the devil is in the details12:26
number80especially w/ ldap12:26
coreycband beyond python-ldap/pyldap, we have ldap3 vs pyldap.  it'd be nice to just converge on one across projects.12:26
coreycbnice for me at least :)12:26
number80I agree that we have to converge and push for a py3 compatible requirement for ldap12:27
dimssorry network dropped12:27
dimsnumber80 : ++12:27
dims#topic Go12:27
*** openstack changes topic to "Go (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:27
prometheanfirecoreycb: nice for packagers too tbh12:28
coreycbprometheanfire, yeah that's my perspective, I do packaging12:28
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prometheanfireas for go, we (gentoo) shouldn't have a problem there either12:28
dimsIf "Go" were allowed, what would we have to do for requirements?12:28
number80My feedback about Go is that we need to be careful w/ deps, most go libraries are poorly maintained and have no proper versioning12:29
dimswhat versions of "Go" do folks have?12:29
prometheanfireas for reqs... the way I understand go's dep model means we are in for a ride12:29
dimsnumber80 : ack12:29
prometheanfiregentoo -      Available versions:  1.6-r2(0/1.6) 1.6.1(0/1.6.1) ~1.6.2(0/1.6.2) **9999(0/9999) {gccgo}12:29
dirkdims: good question, the go library "packaging" is interesting12:29
number80dims: we can push fairly recent versions in CentOS, but lemme check in RHEL12:29
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dirkdims: we have 1.6.1 on the SUSE side of the universe12:30
number80RHEL 7.3 will have 1.6.212:30
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number80consensus seems to build around 1.6.x12:30
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dimsdoes anyone have experience with NOT doing vendoring? (i.e. not keeping local copies of libs used in the repos themselves)12:31
dimsdocker, kubernetes all have copies of the libraries they use12:32
number80dims: we do but it's hard12:32
* dhellmann shows up late and reads scrollback12:32
number80basically, we ship go libraries as source code12:32
tonybdims: I thought vendoring was the go way12:32
dimstonyb : i believe there are alternatives12:33
prometheanfireno, that's the way go works as far as I know12:33
prometheanfirewe (gentoo) do seem to have some unvendoring done though12:33
dhellmanndims : the infra team is researching tools that let golang projects manage deps
dhellmannmost of them let you point to a specific sha or version or something like that of an upstream dependency12:33
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jrollwell, godep and friends don't force you to check in the vendored code itself, rather a list of deps with shas (like doug said)12:34
jrollthey pull code into a vendor dir at build time, but it's assumed you would ignore that in git12:34
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dhellmannok, that's good, that wasn't actually clear to me from reading12:34
number80another go packaging issue => go imports relies on some weird url-based invocations, and many go devs uses url redirector12:34
dimstonyb dhellmann : thanks for the pointers12:34
number80sometimes, we get the same libraries packaged twice under different names12:35
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dimsnumber80 : interesting12:35
number80we should emphasize that we use the same import for the same library everywhere12:36
dimsso, do we sign up to maintain a list of SHA(s)? :)12:36
* tonyb needs to read about go and run-time linking ... if that's a thing12:36
number80wfm, until we find a better way to support it12:36
jrolldhellmann: urgh, maybe I read wrong :( godep themselves vendor their libs
dimsimport statements and SHA(s) i guess12:36
* jroll totally read that wrong12:36
dhellmannjroll : do what I say, not what I do? ;-)12:36
dimsdhellmann : LOL12:37
dhellmanndims : I'm not sure a list of global requirements is necessary for go projects12:37
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dhellmannthey all basically have their own in-tree constraint list, and build a static binary12:37
dhellmannsomeone needs to vet those dependencies for license compatibility, but we don't need a global list for that12:38
tonybIt'll be a majpr headache for infra if they endup needing to "mirror" everything in use in any project :(12:38
prometheanfirehuh, ya, that's true12:38
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dimsdhellmann : less work the better :)12:38
dhellmannyeah, infra is addressing the build-related issues12:38
dimstonyb : y, i remember mordred talking about mirroring specific SHA(s) we use12:38
prometheanfirepackaging wise it'll still be a pain though12:39
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number80oh yeah ...12:39
dimsjust to reduce relying in github etc outside our control12:39
dhellmanndims : the "technology divergence" aspect will be harder to control, too, but *shrug*12:39
dimsok. i threw this is so folks start thinking :) if at all we end up picking up Go12:40
dims#topic Open Discussion12:40
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: requirements)"12:40
prometheanfirecan I go back to sleep?12:40
dimsmay i have volunteers to run the next few meetings?12:40
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coolsvapdhellmann, hi i had the action item but since we have time12:40
dhellmanncoolsvap : sure, what's up?12:41
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coolsvapregarding the u-c new-release change requests12:41
* dims looks at dirk tonyb coolsvap and others12:41
coolsvapdims i can help12:41
* tonyb looks back ;P12:41
coolsvapdhellmann, i think its a duplicate effort12:42
dhellmannok, those patches are coming for a couple of reasons12:42
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dimstonyb : you are on for next week, coolsvap the one after that. ok?12:42
prometheanfireI'll be out next week at least12:42
dhellmann(1) we want to test that each new lib works in isolation, so if we see a failure in the tests we know which lib caused it12:42
tonybdims: sure.12:42
jrolldhellmann: going back, looks like glide can do what we want12:42
dhellmann(2) we do not want to wait 24 hrs for the bot to introduce the new lib into the dev environments12:42
dimsprometheanfire : cool. we can do 2 weeks at a time :)12:42
coolsvapdims ack12:42
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dhellmannas constraint updates for existing dependencies, they can be approved by a single reviewer under our existing policy12:43
dhellmannjroll : cool. you might want to talk to the infra folks about the concerns so that input goes into picking a tool12:43
dimsdhellmann : i have been tending to wait for the morning sniff tests results (
dimsdhellmann : so do we +2A the individual ones or the bulk one?12:44
dimsor both12:44
jrolldhellmann: sure12:44
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dhellmanndims : these automatically proposed changes replace the ones we asked release liaisons to submit by hand, and are meant to be processed the same way12:44
dimsdhellmann : so if you are ok with abandoning the individual ones then we are good12:45
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notmorganjust woke up, i was pinged in the other channel?12:45
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dimshey notmorgan we talked a bit about the pyldap a bit12:45
dhellmanndims : if we're just going to abandon them, I can change the script to stop submitting them. but then we need another way to ensure that new releases go into the dev environment asap12:45
notmorgananything i need to know?12:45
tonybnotmorgan: you're fixing everything :)12:46
coolsvapdhellmann, thats what i also wanted to highlight, abandoning is a different thing12:46
notmorgantonyb: oh. uh...12:46
dimsnotmorgan : action item to follow up on ML :)12:46
dhellmanncoolsvap : yeah, I don't want them to be abandoned, I want them to be approved :-)12:46
coolsvapwe need a sync between your patches and bot12:46
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dhellmanncoolsvap : I don't understand12:47
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tonybor run the bot less often12:47
coolsvapor we just allow the bot to submit individual patches12:47
dhellmannwhat problem are we trying to solve?12:47
coolsvapdhellmann, we have 2 set of patches submitted12:47
tonybdhellmann: I *think* the thing is that take oslo as an exmaple12:47
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prometheanfiredims: I think it's having the same thing submitted twice12:47
dhellmannideally the individual patches would all be approved before the bot runs.12:47
tonybdhellmann: if we land a few (any?) of yhe new-rlease changes the bot's change will fail to merge12:48
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dhellmannis that's not realistic, we might as well wait for the bot12:48
coolsvapprometheanfire, yes12:48
dhellmanntonyb : ok, now I get that there are merge conflicts12:48
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notmorgandims: ok i'm going back to sleep then.12:48
coolsvapdhellmann, the individual patches and bot patch confligts12:48
dhellmannok, I'll change the script to not submit the individual patches and we'll just rely on the bot to update things12:48
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dimscoolsvap : maybe the bot checks what was filed and throws a "Depends-On" those in addition to things that were not filed?12:49
tonybSo I *like* the new-release changes12:49
dimsdhellmann : currently the bot proposes an update as it sees versions in pypi, it does not check what reviews are currently filed under "new-release" topic12:49
dhellmannyeah, I don't think we need to make the bot a lot smarter12:49
dimsdhellmann : so if we make sure that the bot proposed update does not duplicate the ones in progress, that would work12:49
coolsvapdims, can be done this way12:49
tonybthey have meta-data which makes the review much easier than the bot generated one IMO12:49
coolsvapwhat i feel is checking individual changes is good12:50
coolsvapit helps isolate issue to single package update12:50
dimscoolsvap : maybe the bot checks what was filed and throws a "Depends-On" those in addition to things that were not filed?12:50
dimsdhellmann : currently the bot proposes an update as it sees versions in pypi, it does not check what reviews are currently filed under "new-release" topic12:50
dimsdhellmann : so if we make sure that the bot proposed update does not duplicate the ones in progress, that would work12:50
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coolsvapdims, if the bot can propose individual changes12:50
coolsvapdhellmann, ^^12:51
prometheanfirethat's what I'd like to see as well, I like the new way12:51
dhellmannif we're only doing bulk releases like this early in the week, how many bot updates are actually in conflict?12:51
dhellmannwe can't have the bot propose individual changes, that doesn't make sense. It's updating everything all at once. Some updates may depend on others.12:51
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tonyband if it does conflict wont it just regenerate in 24hours?12:51
dhellmannit will12:52
tonybright so I think that we shoudl stick with what we have now12:52
dimsi am ok with what we have now12:52
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tonybfocus on getting the new-rleases changes in *early* and see if the bot thing causes major pain12:52
tonybthe new-release stuff is pretty new and IMO helpful12:53
coolsvapso we approve the individual patches and let bot regenerate changes in 24 hrs12:53
tonybthat's just my $0.0212:53
tonybcoolsvap: that's my suggestion12:53
prometheanfirewe could get into a loop where the bot's always behind though12:53
dimscoolsvap : i think we should wait for sniff tests then let individual ones in and merge the bot update last in the day12:54
tonybprometheanfire: if that happens we can manually sync up12:54
dhellmannwe won't, though, because we don't do releases on thurs/fri so we have several opportunities for a monday bot update to be good12:54
dims(before the next regeneration)12:54
tonybdhellmann: ... and merged :)12:54
dhellmannand I'm trying not to do bulk releases like oslo too late in the week too often12:54
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dims++ dhellmann12:54
coolsvapdims, dhellmann tonyb i am fine with testing this strategy12:54
prometheanfireya, oslo...12:54
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dhellmanngood, let's give it a couple of weeks and then see how it goes?12:55
dhellmannI have to run, sorry, local interruption12:55
tonybdhellmann: o/12:55
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prometheanfireya, meeting is almost over12:55
dimsanything else? we can talk over on our channel :)12:56
dimsthanks everyone12:56
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"12:56
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 12:56:11 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)12:56
openstackMinutes (text):
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number80thank you dims for ensuring that we hold regular meetings :)12:56
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dimsnumber80 : yw :)12:57
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zhiyuan_caihi joe13:00
joehuanghi, zhiyuan13:00
Yipeihi, all13:00
joehuanghi, how about your master thesis defence13:01
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Yipeii passed it13:02
joehuang#startmeeting tricircle13:02
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 13:02:32 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is joehuang. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.13:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)"13:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tricircle'13:02
joehuang#topic rollcall13:03
*** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tricircle)"13:03
joehuang#info joehuang13:03
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zhiyuan_cai#info zhiyuan13:03
Yipei#info Yipei13:03
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joehuangL2 networking work group has a meeting today13:04
joehuanggood to see the progress in this feature13:05
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joehuangand yipei, how about the progress in pod binding13:06
Yipeisorry about my progress, i have been busy with my graduation last week. it will end on next Monday i will speed up next week13:06
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Yipeiand a new master student will join in in June13:07
joehuangok, please update the spec when you are available13:07
joehuanggood news13:07
Yipeiok, i will13:08
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joehuangjust talked with zhiyuan this afternoon, we also need to consider the rolling upgrade impact on the db access and rpc message13:09
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Yipeiwhat do you mean rolling upgrade?13:09
joehuangthat means the components and db may be not working in the same version during upgrade period13:10
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AshNFFhi , I have problem with my Mitaka compute node from nova log I get this error :  Instance failed network setup after 1 attempt(s)13:11
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joehuangfor example, some Nova-APIGW upgraded to Newton release, but some Nova-APIGW are still working in Mitaka release, and DB has been upgrade to Newton13:11
lxq_sorry for late13:12
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joehuangso these components should be able to work in mixed version environment.13:12
AshNFFfrom the controller nova log Failed to bind port 4215e6bb-b0fa-492c-a479-f4f7f20700df on host nu-vrs1 for vnic_type normal using segments [{'segmentation_id': 62, 'physical_network': None, 'id': u'b6f9bf32-54b8-4d25-bd27-37151024048d', 'network_type': u'vxlan'}]13:12
joehuangwelcome lxq13:12
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Yipeii see13:12
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zhiyuan_caiwe can investigate versionedobject library13:13
Yipeihow to do that?13:13
zhiyuan_caiit deals with multi-version issue of data models13:13
joehuangAnd XJOB and Nova-APIGW may also working with different version during upgrade period13:13
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joehuangthat means RPC also need to take care of version compatibility13:14
joehuangok, zhiyuan, is there any OSLO lib for versionedobject?13:14
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joehuangto AshNFF, sorry, we are in Tricircle meeting13:15
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AshNFFsorry thanks joehuang13:15
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joehuangok, to zhiyuan, thanks for the link, so let's add one item in todo list, to support tricircle being able to do rolling upgrade13:17
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joehuang#action add one item in todo list, to make tricircle being able to do rolling upgrade13:18
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joehuang#info including versionedobject for DB access and versionedRPC for rpc message13:18
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joehuangto lxq how about the volumetype patch?13:20
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lxq_i  will run the path in our enviroment before i submmit13:22
lxq_today i learn some konowledge about running13:22
lxq_like scree tool and others13:22
joehuanggood, if you have any question, feel free to ask in #openstack-tricircle13:23
lxq_sorry, it is screen tool13:23
lxq_it is my first time to use the tool, it is confued me at begging13:23
joehuangif you have workable devstack, you can just replace the code of tricircle, and re-run the cinder-apigw13:24
lxq_ok. i just konw it.:)13:24
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joehuangand you can use curl just like that in tricircle github readme to test cinder-apigw13:25
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zhiyuan_caifor cinder-apigw, using CLI to test is also fine13:26
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lxq_ok. :)13:26
joehuangto zhiyuan I think so13:26
joehuangyes, cinder volume CRUD is tested by cinder-client13:27
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lxq_i can run the command like cinder type-list13:27
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joehuang_123sorry, my previous connection was lost13:31
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joehuang_123in pycharm, you can run test cases, and see the code coverage13:31
joehuang_123can you see my message13:33
lxq_i can13:33
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joehuang_123in pycharm, you can run test cases, and check the code coverage, to see which branch is not coverd13:33
joehuang_123any topics13:34
joehuang_123\nick joehuang13:34
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joehuangany other topics?13:35
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Yipeino for me13:35
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lxq_not any more13:35
joehuangok, let's conclude the meeting early today13:35
joehuanghave a good day13:35
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"13:36
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 13:36:03 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)13:36
openstackMinutes (text):
lxq_good night13:36
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Zaraanyone about for the storyboard meeting?15:00
Zara#startmeeting storyboard15:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 15:00:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is Zara. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.15:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storyboard'15:00
Zara#topic announcements15:00
*** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:00
ZaraNo announcements on agenda; have I missed anything?15:00
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* Zara assumes not15:01
Zara#topic urgent items15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "urgent items (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:01
Zaraagain, nothing listed15:01
Zaraanything urgent?15:01
Zaraspeak fast if so15:01
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Zara#topic In Progress Work15:01
*** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:01
Zaraokay, I forgot to update these from last week15:01
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Zaracomplex priorities are listed on the agenda; afaik those are parked for now15:02
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Zarasince it requires subscription to worklists, and that's a big chunk of work that we don't yet have a timeline for15:02
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Zarabut project teams are also listed!15:03
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ZaraOver to you, SotK!15:03
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SotKI sent patches for adding a UI to manage teams15:03
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SotKI've not looked at being able ot use teams in permissions anywhere yet though15:04
Zarastill, one thing at a time! :D15:04
Zarathese look cool, I hope to finish reviewing by the end of the week15:04
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Zarathank you for investigating and making the ui!15:05
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Zaraso, the agenda lists operator docs, but I haven't done any further work on those since we all started to focus on setting up a dev instance15:06
Zaraoh hm, the dev instance should've been an announcement!15:06
Zaragah mid-week meetings15:06
Zara#info StoryBoard has a dev instance! It's at!/dashboard/stories15:06
Zarathanks to fungi, nibalizer, anteaya and everyone else in the infra team who helped set this up :)15:07
SotKindeed, thanks for the help!15:07
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fungiany time15:08
Zaraa big motivation for me in wanting to set up operator docs was so that people could quickly get to a 'playground' instance when trying out storyboard for the first time (or trying out new features), so the dev instance should help with that. and hopefully I can come back to the operator docs...15:08
fungii have the replacement storyboard.o.o server built. after the meeting i'll get you ip addresses to check its interface out before i change dns15:08
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Zarathank you15:08
* nibalizer dances15:09
SotKwoo, thanks for that too15:09
fungiso it'll be on a similar ubuntu release to teh dev server once that's complete15:09
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Zarathat should have also been an announcement... I'm winning at announcements today...15:09
Zara#info StoryBoard is very nearly upgraded!15:10
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Zara#info Zara has been working on gerrit integration15:10
Zarawell I've not got much done and I don't know where the time has gone15:11
Zarapedroalvarez left some review comments, and I got as far as reading them, but not implementing them15:11
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Zaraso hmmm15:11
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ZaraI *did* manage to just break email for everyone in my workplace with a combination of my gerrit wip script and email notifications15:12
Zaraso, erm, watch out for that15:12
Zaraif you tell storyboard to send out 20000 emails, it will most definitely send them15:12
Zaraoh! the dev server is on the agenda!15:12
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Zaraanyone have anything to add on that?15:12
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SotKI've not15:13
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Zara#info sotk is silent, like a mysterious hawk or something idk i didn't sleep15:14
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0xa6e5810>15:14
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Zarathe last thing I have listed is betherly's tutorial15:14
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Zarabut I think she's on holiday today15:14
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Zara#topic Product WG cross project dashboard15:14
*** openstack changes topic to "Product WG cross project dashboard (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:15
Zaraso that's listed as a topic but that might be leftover from last week15:15
Zaradoes anyone have anything they want to say about this?15:15
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Zaralooks like nobody does15:16
ZaraI'm guessing people are still putting together requirements etc, then15:16
Zara#topic Open Discussion15:16
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)"15:16
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ZaraSo something that just came up in the storyboard channel-- security... how do we stop someone making a script that updates storyboard in a way to cause people email spam?15:17
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Zaraand anything else along those lines, I guess. I think we should give it some thought since a lot of features are at the 'it works' stage but could be exploited, and I juuuust saw a spammer in #openstack-infra, so hey15:19
SotKdisable login for the offending account (assuming the enable_login column in the users table does what it suggests15:19
ttxbit late, network issues15:20
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Zarasotk: okay, so that's the reactive side... anything preventative anyone can think of?15:20
Zaraotherwise I'll leave it for people to mull over and come back to later15:21
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ttxI can give an update on the spec15:21
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Zaracool, please do! :)15:21
ttxI updated the spec so that it's actually reviewable. The main idea is that we need some kind of roadmap to transition, which involves getting in touch with key users and getting them on-board15:22
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ttxand probably conservatively define a few blockers15:22
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ttxThe trick is the balance - you don't want a bottomless pit of requests otherwise migratuon won't ever happen15:23
ttxbut you still want to know which are the main pain points before people are happy to migrate15:23
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ttxIt's a tricky job and it needs someone sitting between the two groups (storyboard devs / target powerusers) to facilitate15:24
ttxanteaya volunteered to drive that15:24
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* SotK would thank anteaya here but she isn't in channel15:24
ttxNone of the absolute options ("migrate now" and "migrate when everyone is happy") is actually doable15:24
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ttxso we need to identify a finite and conservative list of blockers and migrate when covered15:25
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ttxblockers could be = [ 'acls_for_security_bugs' ]15:26
ttxwe know we have that in the list already15:26
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ZaraI can help keep an eye out for any woolly wording, though I think between everyone that'll be covered already :)15:26
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anteayaSotK: sorry I wasn't in channel earlier15:28
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ttxyeah, I think we all agree some amount of blockers need to be defined, and we need to engage with main users preventively15:28
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ttxthe trick is to keep it reasonable and short-term15:28
SotKanteaya: no worries, thanks for volunteering :)15:28
Zarayes, thank you15:28
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anteayaI think ttx is doing a good job outlining the pain points here15:28
anteayathe bit that is hard is where is the line where we can say go15:29
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ttxwhich is why you need a facilitator15:29
* anteaya puts on her facilitator hat15:30
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anteayaokay I'll will do my best15:30
anteayamaybe I should create a story so I can keep notes on who I have talked to15:30
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Zarawhat does the facilitator hat look like, ooi?15:31
anteayaand my summary of their issues and create stories of the issues that arise15:31
anteayavery pretty15:31
anteayawith feathers15:31
ttxhmm, hitting network issues again15:31
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ttxthat is all I had. I'll probably update the wording to make it clearer the list should be short-term and finite15:32
SotKI think that would be useful15:32
Zaragreat, thank you :)15:32
ttxwaiting for more feedback. Then I suspect anteaya will fill up details on the implementation phase with however she would prefer to handle this15:32
ttxI think first step is identifying target power users15:32
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ttxalso maybe raise the "bug tracker" discussion - do we really want to use then same system for bug tracking and task tracking ?15:33
ttxas I outlined in the long intro to taht spec, those have slightly different users and constraints15:33
anteayaplease add tasks there so I can track them15:33
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anteayaand I will do the same15:34
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ttxalright, that's all I had15:35
Zarathanks :) anyone have anything else to say?15:35
anteayattx do you want to take 'raise the bug tracker discussion'?15:35
* anteaya delegates15:36
ttxI'm still wondering if that would help or hinder the rest of the discussion15:37
* krotscheck reads backscroll15:37
anteayattx I'll leave it with you then15:37
anteayaI'm leaning toward hinder myself15:37
ttxyes, maybe add a "?" at the end of this one :)15:37
anteayabut it is there should anyone feel strong enough to take it up15:37
ZaraI'm leaning toward hinder, fwiw15:37
SotKme too15:37
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ttxyeah, it's a bit orthogonal15:37
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ttxwe ahve the same problem with LP and would have the same problem with Maniphest15:38
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ttxIt's "how community wants us task tracker" more than "how community wants to use StoryBoard"15:38
Zararight, yeah, I'm in favour of not muddying the water then.15:38
ttxs/wants us/wants to use15:38
anteayathe water is muddy enough15:38
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ttxOK, let's punt on that one15:39
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anteayaremove it or leave it?15:39
anteayaI can remove it15:39
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ttxI'll remove it15:39
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anteayaI have nothing more on this topic15:40
ttxme neither15:40
* SotK wonders if krotscheck has any thoughts after reading backscroll?15:41
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krotscheckStoryBoard needs to no longer live under the infra banner.15:41
krotscheckAnd it needs more cores.15:41
* persia thinks the best way to do that is to remove the infra banner15:41
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krotscheckAnd pretty much every argument about people camping on implementation bikeshedding that he made over a year ago, and then was made in Austin.15:42
ttxthat sure is technically doable imho (making it independent)15:43
* SotK trusts that anteaya's facilitation will avoid such a big bikeshed this time15:43
krotscheckttx: I tried that. I was shot down.15:43
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anteayado we want to take that on while trying to get storyboard to be the tool of choice?15:43
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krotscheckFact is that storyboard has made the most progress when it was ignored.15:44
anteayaI'm thinking moving it after would be easy while moving it during may make both directions fail15:44
SotKanteaya: +115:44
anteayawell codethink didn't ignore it15:44
krotscheckWe've got two ways of accomplishing this. Either A) Get it out from under infra's governance patterns, or B) Get enough cores in place that StoryBoard can manage itself.15:44
krotscheckanteaya: Ignored by infra.15:45
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Zarakrotscheck: right now the governance isn't holding us up most of the time; often it's me trying to be careful about merging things when I don't feel confident in my knowledge. the number of cores is a problem15:46
* SotK doesn't think infra's governence patterns are affecting storyboard much anymore, unless I'm misunderstanding the meaning15:46
krotscheckZara: What you're doing right now is WAY better than the way it used to be.15:46
krotscheckSotK: There was a moment when I was informed, in no uncertain terms, that I needed at least two non-author core votes on every patch.15:46
krotscheckWhich, at the time, meant two-non-javascript-infra people15:47
krotscheckBecause I was the only core.15:47
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SotKkrotscheck: yeah, I saw that in the logs, but we're out of that hole now15:47
SotKI'd be against going back into that hole too15:47
krotscheckThen other cores showed up for a while.15:48
krotscheckAnd disappeared again.15:48
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krotscheckThere's history15:48
Zarayeah, I'm taking it as evidence that people saw how things weren't working and changed them. I'd be concerned about anything that implied we would go back to that (without increased resources, anyway)15:48
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krotscheckSo what's to stop us from making it official? Pull StoryBoard out from under infra, let it do its own governance?15:49
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* krotscheck is worried that as long as it's vague and not defined, there will be questions.15:50
anteayajust that I think that will derail the decision we need to make about an official task tracker for openstack15:50
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krotscheckanteaya: Sadly it's related. It gets at the heart of the decision of "who gets to say when storyboard is ready"15:50
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anteayaI disagree15:51
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krotscheckanteaya: I trust you'll take my experience on this project into account. This has happened before, and we need guarantees that it won't happen again.15:51
anteayaof course15:51
anteayawe have to examine history and learn from it, not dismiss it15:52
anteayaI value your experience very much15:52
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krotscheckSo here's the thing: Sotryboard will continue along with CodeThink's roadmap.15:52
anteayabut my perspective in this moment is that in order to get to a point where storyboard can be migrated to we have to focus on that as a goal15:52
krotscheckThe TC is going to say: "Well, we want these other things"15:52
krotscheckInfra is going to say something similar.15:53
anteayathat is the direction that got us to this point of it being viable15:53
krotscheckBut neither the TC, nor Infra, will actually contribute resources.15:53
anteayawell zara and SotK have already proven they want to build the things the tc and infra wants15:53
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anteayathey have implimented private stories since summit15:53
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anteayaand SotK has taken legacy code regarding teams and tested it15:54
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krotscheckUntil [company] decides that they want [tracker] to be better at supporting [ubuntu releases for example].15:54
anteayaand Zara has a proof of concept for gerrit integration15:54
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krotscheckThis has happened with Launchpad, no?15:54
anteayaI don't know launchpad's history15:54
Zarait's true that needs might not always overlap, though; I think it's worth having something in the spec for what happens if things are added to the list that codethink isn't interested in funding.15:54
anteayawhat I do know is that Zara and SotK and Rob Taylor (CTO of codethink) want storyboard to be successful15:55
krotscheckanteaya: As soon as you can get an official buy in from the actual contributors of the project that they're willing to do exactly what the TC wants, I'll back off.15:55
anteayaZara: let's see if we identify any issues that fit in that space first15:55
anteayakrotscheck: I'm not asking you to back off15:56
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anteayaI want your input15:56
anteayabut I decide what I do with my time15:56
anteayaand I would like storyboard to succeed15:56
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anteayaand will do all I can to see that happen15:56
Zaraanteaya: agreed, and it's not helpful for me to worry about it yet. I think we're safe in assuming everyone is aware of the potential problems now, at least.15:57
anteayaZara: yes, and being open to input and addressing it when it is raised15:57
anteayaZara: like we do with anything else in our workflow15:57
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Zara:) we're nearly out of time, but #storyboard is always open15:58
Zaralast time we overran a little15:58
anteayathanks for chairing another great meeting Zara15:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"16:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 16:00:13 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)16:00
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openstackMinutes (text):
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SotKthanks Zara!16:00
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smcginnis#startmeeting Cinder16:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 16:00:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)"16:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'cinder'16:00
smcginnisping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ vincent_hou kmartin patrickeast sheel dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n17 karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor baumann rajinir16:00
geguileosmcginnis: Thanks16:00
smcginnisHey everyone16:00
smcginnise0ne: Beat me to it. ;)16:00
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smcginnis#topic Announcements16:01
e0nesmcginnis: :)16:01
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smcginnis#link Review focus tracking16:01
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smcginnisI finally spent a little time and updated that ^^16:02
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diablo_rojoHello :)16:02
smcginnisPlease take a look and try to spend some time on the things we've identified as priorities.16:02
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smcginnisI've definitely missed some things we've talked about, so please add any glaring ommissions.16:02
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smcginnisAlso, if any of those are yours, feel free to update with latest links or any other helpful information.16:03
smcginnis#link Nova volume bugs16:03
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smcginnisJust usual reminder on that one ^ that nova can always use our input on volume related issues.16:04
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DuncanTDynamic reconfig is listed as both a priority and a nice-to-have16:04
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smcginnisDuncanT: Oh?16:04
diablo_rojoYeah I am special like that16:04
smcginnisdiablo_rojo: You're special all right. :P16:04
diablo_rojosmcginnis: :P16:05
diablo_rojoI was working on addressing comments today16:05
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diablo_rojoI guess I am not sure what needs to be added based on the larger conversation between jungleboyj, hemna, patrickeast, and dulek16:05
smcginnis#link Gerrit Downtime ML Announcement16:05
jungleboyjI added a question out there as I have gotten kind-of lost.16:06
smcginnis#info Gerrit will have an outage Friday 2016-06-03 at 20:00 UTC16:06
smcginnisPlan accordingly. :)16:06
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smcginnishemna: For the gerrit downtime.16:07
* jungleboyj will take vacation.16:07
sheel*20:00 through 24:00 UTC16:07
bswartzThey should do it this friday rather than next friday16:07
smcginnishemna: Cuz I know how bad you;ll feel without access to gerrit. ;)16:07
hemnaheh :)16:07
smcginnisbswartz: I'm sure they have a reason for their timing.16:07
scottdahemna: And that's 1:00 PM PDT, since we know how much you love UTC time16:07
jungleboyjsmcginnis: Are they going to make it suck less now?16:08
smcginnisjungleboyj: One can only hope. :)16:08
* jungleboyj start to pray16:08
* diablo_rojo crosses fingers16:08
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smcginnis#info Women of OpenStack looking for mentors16:08
hemnagerrit down at, that sounds like an excuse to hit the river with a fly rod....16:08
smcginnis#link ML announcement16:08
e0ne11pm in my timezone.. I'll be able to finish work before 11pm :)16:08
sheelthey want to rename some projects16:08
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jgriffithhemna: +10016:08
smcginnisLooking for mentors to help. See ML post for more details.16:09
geguileoe0ne: 1 hour earlier for me  ;-)16:09
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diablo_rojosmcginnis: Its pretty simple to get into the system. It's just a google form to fill out.16:09
e0negeguileo: you're a lucky man16:09
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smcginnisdiablo_rojo: Great to see that taking off. :)16:09
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sheeldiablo_rojo: lot of does and don't as well in form16:10
diablo_rojosmcginnis: If you want to a mentor and a mentee that's fine too16:10
geguileodiablo_rojo: But it was asking about Austin stuff  ;-)16:10
diablo_rojogeguileo: Yeah, it's been out since like January16:10
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diablo_rojogeguileo: Just skip the Austin stuff :)16:10
smcginnis#topic Midcycle planning16:11
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smcginnis#link Planning etherpad16:11
geguileodiablo_rojo: I was actually considering signing in, but I'm no good at some of the stuff a mentor should be doing according to the document16:11
smcginnisI had this as an announcement item, but probably worth making its own topic.16:11
smcginnisPlease add your name to the etherpad if planning on attending.16:11
smcginnisList is pretty small so far.16:11
diablo_rojogeguileo: Maybe you sign up as a mentee to get good at those things ;) Then later sign up as a mentor16:12
smcginnisAnd don't forget to reserve a hotel room.16:12
geguileodiablo_rojo: rofl16:12
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scottdaYes and please book your Hotel room for the mid-cycle to get a discount. There is not a block of reserved rooms, it is first-come, first-served.16:12
smcginnisWe also can start capturing a list of topics to cover at the midcycle in the etherpad.16:13
jungleboyjscottda: They still had rooms available yesterday.16:13
smcginnisI just reserved mine yesterday.16:13
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hemnasmcginnis, fwiw, I'm attempting to get travel approval.....16:13
smcginnisFinally remembered to do it.16:13
scottdajungleboyj: Cool. I just don't want anyone to have to pay more than the discount rate.16:13
smcginnishemna: Awesome!16:13
hemnaunlikely though that we'll be there.16:13
diablo_rojohemna: Me too.16:13
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jungleboyjhemna: Thow shalt get travel approval.16:13
smcginnishemna: I think you need to go to the HP office there to transition things. ;)16:13
jungleboyjsmcginnis: I should be approved.  Just waiting for the go-ahead.16:14
smcginnisSome interesting challenges this time around. :|16:14
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smcginnisAny other agenda items? Pretty light this week.16:15
diablo_rojoCan talk about the conversation going on for my spec16:15
smcginnis#topic Open Discussion16:15
e0neI've got one item about unit tests16:15
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smcginnisdiablo_rojo: Go ahead16:15
smcginnise0ne: You're next16:15
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DuncanTAvishy asked that we discuss the list-manageable volumes spec and patches16:16
geguileoI would also like to talk about our broken rolling upgrades  :-)16:16
diablo_rojoSo, is the conversation just that I need to add to it saying things could be hosed if this is run in an HA environment16:16
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diablo_rojoOr is there another part of the implementation that needs to happen?16:16
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diablo_rojo#link Dynamic Reconfig16:17
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diablo_rojohemna: dulek jungleboyj patrickeast all had comments there so I am looking to you all for clarification16:17
e0nediablo_rojo: IMO, it should not be depended on HA things16:17
jungleboyje0ne: I agree.16:17
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diablo_rojoSo I just need to point out that there could be issues here that are independent of this approach and could happen anyway?16:18
jungleboyjI just thought that we need to note in a disclaimer that sysadmins may enable settings using this that could cause issues.16:18
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hemnaas I said in my last comment on the review "All I'm saying is that we need to document this as a potential for major problems.  "16:18
jungleboyjThis is nothing new.  The concerns for A/A c-vol would go with the HA documentation.16:18
diablo_rojohemna: Document in the spec or somewhere else?16:18
hemnafolks seem to be worried that I'm asking for A/A solutions in this spec16:18
hemnaand that's NOT what I said.16:18
jungleboyjhemna: The 'here is a loaded gun' disclaimer.16:18
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hemnathe spec should mention the potential issues with A/A, and we should document in the devref what not to do.16:19
hemnathat's it.16:19
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diablo_rojohemna: Got it. Will do :)16:19
hemnathe A/A issue can cause really bad problems16:19
hemnawe should be up front about it.16:19
e0nehemna: good point16:20
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diablo_rojohemna: I agree. Make sure people know how badly they can mess it up16:20
smcginnisdiablo_rojo: good?16:20
diablo_rojosmcginnis: Yup16:20
smcginnise0ne: You're up16:20
diablo_rojoThank you :)16:20
e0nethanks, Sean16:20
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e0neI've tried to organize our unit tests a bit16:21
e0neand found that backends' unit-tests are depended on execution order due to lack of mocking, I guess16:21
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e0nehere is my patch:
e0neI need help from drivers maintainers with it16:21
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smcginnise0ne: I think that's what I was seeing in the 5 minutes I spent on it. :)16:21
smcginnisThen I gave up.16:21
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smcginnisIt would be nice to reorganize that tree.16:22
e0neand I  don't have an idea, how to check it with hacking rules16:22
e0nesmcginnis: I'll propose other patches too16:22
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e0nesmcginnis: but drivers tests make me very sad :(16:22
DuncanTI don't think you can check it with hacking rules, you need to do runtime data poisoning analysis to detect it16:22
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DuncanTIt isn't generally detectable via static analysis in python... it's a stupidly hard language to static analyse16:23
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e0neStorwizeSVCCommonDriverTestCase takes more than 4 seconds :(16:23
jgriffithe0ne: sorry... can ellaborate a bit about the problem?16:23
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e0nejgriffith: sure16:23
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jgriffithe0ne: sorry...  /me is slow :)16:24
e0nejgriffith: there is some issues mock16:24
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e0nejgriffith: not everything is mocked right16:24
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e0nejgriffith: so once I've moved tests to other directory, they stucked :(16:24
jgriffithe0ne: oh... you mean like relative vs absolute paths or something in the mocks?16:24
e0nejgriffith: I think it's mocks related, but not 100% sure16:25
jgriffithe0ne: hmm... interesting16:25
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hemnaI'm not following the issue here16:25
hemnacan you show some examples?  pastebin errors, etc. ?16:25
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jgriffithI think the issue is that mock blows up when he moves things16:25
jgriffithe0ne: I'll download the patch and run it to see what you mean16:26
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tbarrone0ne: does it make sense to divice and conquer here, moving fewer tiles in each patch, raising bugs when that patch fails?16:26
smcginnisjgriffith: That's probably the best way.16:26
e0nejgriffith, hemna:
smcginnisThings do fall apart when you try to run them.16:26
e0nejgriffith, hemna: TBH, that patch works on some envs but fails on other16:26
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e0nejgriffith, hemna: I don't know why:(16:27
jgriffithe0ne: hehe... we'll see if it's my lucky day or not16:27
jgriffithrunning now16:27
e0nejgriffith: :)16:27
smcginnise0ne: With the timeout it's looking like a sleep isn't getting mocked right, but that's odd.16:27
jgriffithoh no... not sleep mock problems again :(16:27
e0nesmcginnis: sleep or some I/O process16:27
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smcginnise0ne: True16:27
smcginnisjgriffith: No kidding!16:28
e0neStorwizeSVCCommonDriverTestCase <- looks like sleep is not mocked there!16:28
jgriffithahh... test_terminate_connection_with_decorator ;(16:28
jungleboyje0ne: :-(16:28
smcginnise0ne: I wonder if it would be better to move these in smaller chunks.16:29
jgriffithe0ne: as you said though, very strange that moving the tests exposes this16:29
smcginnisAt least for problem isolation.16:29
e0nejgriffith: agree16:29
e0neI'll appreciate any help with this things.16:29
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smcginnisAny maybe a little easier than the last time some guys decided to move everything around.16:29
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e0newe can continue to discuss it in the cinder channel to free this one for more important topics16:29
smcginnise0ne: Thanks16:30
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smcginnisavishay couldn't attend, but he wanted his list manageable volumes/snapshots discussed.16:30
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* smcginnis is looking for link16:30
e0nesmcginnis, jgriffith:  FYI: test_rbd always hangs on my envs if it is moved to unit/volume/drivers directory16:30
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jgriffithe0ne: yeah, for me it's the zonemanager tests :(16:31
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e0nejgriffith: it's something new:)16:31
DuncanTThe basic objection here seems to be that the paging stuff is hard... it's totally driver dependant though, so can only really be done in the driver16:31
smcginnisDuncanT: Yeah, that's the problem/concern I have with it.16:31
smcginnisI wanted to code it up and see, but with the way he did it for LVM it would definitely be bad for my backend.16:32
jgriffithe0ne: You're right though, those usages of mock are all wrong16:32
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jgriffithe0ne: they're mocking the entire class :(16:32
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e0neDuncanT: maybe we can make it manager, not in driver16:32
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smcginnisIt would be something like O(n*4) for me, so if I end up throwing away 90% of the results at the end that would be bad.16:32
xyang1smcginnis: I'll review again.  he said he addressed my comments16:32
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smcginnisxyang1: OK, good.16:32
e0nejgriffith: what test is it? not sure that I want to see it...16:33
jgriffithe0ne: LOL.. I'll ping you after meeting16:33
DuncanTe0ne: If you do it in the manager, you force the driver to pull in potentially thousands of results, which might be expensive16:33
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e0nejgriffith: thanks16:33
smcginnisSo driver maintainers, please take a look at that list patch and make sure it's going to work out for you.16:33
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xyang1e0ne: I don't think it can be dobe without driver call16:34
e0neDuncanT: but not every driver will be able to do it on the storage side16:34
* hemna reruns the hp tests....16:34
DuncanTsmcginnis: Just look at the method signature and try to implement it from scratch.... looking at LVM isn't very helpful in this case I think16:34
jgriffithFTR I'm opposed to the idea altogether16:34
DuncanTjgriffith: Why?16:34
smcginnise0ne: I won't either, but in my driver I need to get the bare minimum, then filter, then get the full details for what's left.16:34
jgriffithsome devices are used for more than one cloud or deployment16:34
smcginnisI think.16:34
e0neI like the idea how we did with generic volume migrations16:34
jgriffiththings like importing into OpenStack IMO are admin things that frankly *should* require a bit of effort16:35
xyang1e0ne: because each driver defines its own ref16:35
xyang1e0ne: manager does not know16:35
hemnajgriffith, +116:35
Swansonsmcginnis, It involves getting tons of data (some of which might be used by other backends or clouds) repeatedly or adding a cache.16:35
smcginnisjgriffith: So you think they should just go to their storage to find the volume, then do a manage in OpenStack once they know which one they want?16:35
DuncanTjgriffith: admins are disagreeing16:35
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jgriffithsmcginnis: yes16:35
hemnathis also exposes other volumes on the backend that shouldn't be viewable by an openstack admin16:35
e0nehemna: +116:36
Swansonsmcginnis, sucks. Not against it but I'd rather return less data and have another option to drill down.16:36
DuncanTjgriffith: Particularly as figuring out the ref for some backends turns out not to be trivial16:36
jgriffithhemna: exactly, that's part of my point.16:36
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hemnaI think this exposes too much16:36
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jgriffithI'm not convinced of the use case to begin with but that's ok16:37
smcginnisOK, please comment on the patch and make sure concerns are captured there.16:37
smcginnisWould be good having some operator feedack for things like this. :/16:37
SwansonCan't we just let it pass and then whine and counter patch later?16:37
xyang1DuncanT: is operator?16:37
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jgriffithSwanson: that always ends well :)16:38
smcginnisIt's the Cinder way! :)16:38
Swansonjgriffith, It's the process I'm most comfortable with.16:38
DuncanTxyang1: Yes. The format is different between backends, and often not exactly what appears on the (propriatary) backend gui16:38
Swansonjgriffith, smcginnis: :)16:39
DuncanTsmcginnis: I've got a customer who banged their head against the wall trying to get manage working... it's easy once you know how but not easy to do from scratch16:39
SwansonDuncanT, Isn't this a documentation issue?16:39
DuncanTSwanson: I'm not convinced that documenting a complex proceedure is better than making it easier16:39
hemnaDuncanT, because they didn't know the format for the particular backend ?16:40
DuncanThemna: Yes16:40
hemnayah that part really sux0rs16:40
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DuncanThemna: With avishy's patch, it is easy16:40
hemnato me it's similar to not knowing what extra specs are supported by any particular backend16:40
hemnathe driver knows what it needs16:40
hemnawe just don't have a way of exposing it16:40
DuncanThemna: Yah, somebody should fix that too ;-)16:40
SwansonDuncanT, So we make knowing the values easier but then they have to go back to the backend to figure out what those values mean. Same issue. Other side.16:41
hemnawell, avishay's patch also does something that I think is a security problem16:41
hemnaby listing all available volumes on an array16:41
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hemnathat is bad IMHO16:41
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DuncanThemna: It's admin only... how often does the admin not have login access to the box, and therefore full access to the creds to talk to the backend anyway?16:42
jgriffithDuncanT: fairly often actually16:42
smcginnisOK, everyone with concerns please comment. Maybe Avishay can attend next week's meeting to discuss it further.16:43
jgriffithDuncanT: it's not uncommon to have an openstack-admin16:43
hemnaDuncanT, that depends entirely on the organization deploying.  an openstack admin != storage admin16:43
jgriffithso I think all these concerns can be worked out if control is left to the driver16:43
smcginnisWell, that admin has the credentials in cinder.conf, so it uses the same thing. They can log in and view the same data that would be shown.16:43
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DuncanTjgriffith: People are actually doing that in the wild now? Cool16:44
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DuncanTjgriffith: I wonder how e.g. not having access to the logs plays out?16:44
jgriffithDuncanT: yeah, like hemna mentioned... openstack-admin, storage-admin, VSphere admin etc16:44
DuncanTjgriffith: I'm aware of the concept, but everybody I know who tried it failed in practice to make it useful16:45
jgriffithsmcginnis: make a fair point too though about cinder.conf... which I get complaints about on a regular basis16:45
jgriffithie don't expose credentials in the conf file16:45
jgriffithbut I don't really know of a good way to fix that16:45
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jgriffithat leat reasonably16:45
DuncanTjgriffith: the cinder.conf point was the one I was trying to make, sorry if I wasn't clear16:45
jgriffithDuncanT: yeah, valid16:46
smcginnisWe could possibly provide a tool to store credentials in an encrypted file that cinder would pull from.16:46
jungleboyjjgriffith: I don't understand why the obfuscation we previously proposed didn't take off for that reason.16:46
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smcginnisjungleboyj: Oh, what was that?16:46
jgriffithjungleboyj: which?16:46
DuncanTIf cinder can decrypt it, then it's tricky to stop anybody with any useful admin access to the box from doing so too16:47
jungleboyjIt was an obfuscation approach that encrypted the data in conf files for like the database connection, etc.16:47
jungleboyjIBM carried the patch for it internally for quite some time.16:47
DuncanTjungleboyj: Link?16:47
jgriffithjungleboyj: don't remember exactly but wasn't it something about too easy to reverse decode?  And the fact that the driver would have the code to decrypt it anywa?16:47
smcginnisDuncanT: Just slightly more secure than being able to "cat cinder.conf" and see it.16:47
jgriffithI don't recall16:47
DuncanTsmcginnis: Security theatre.16:47
smcginnisOr rather /secure/obfuscated/16:47
smcginnisDuncanT: Very trye16:47
xyang1DuncanT: that's the reason why apple does not want to unlock the iphone:)16:47
hemnathat sounds like something that should be a cross project discussion16:48
DuncanTsmcginnis: That's how you end up with the TSA16:48
hemnaother projects might need to secure their conf files?16:48
hemnaI dunno16:48
jungleboyjjgregor: Oh, maybe that was it.  It was better than nothing.16:48
smcginnisDuncanT: LOL16:48
jgriffithsmcginnis: "security through obfusication", isn't that said t be a bad thing :)16:48
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hemnajust seems like a useless exercise to me16:48
jgriffithTSA... LOL16:48
jgriffithso back to the manage thing....16:49
jgriffithwell... never mind I'll just put it in the patch comments16:49
DuncanTjgriffith: You said something about maybe being able to fix it in the driver?16:49
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DuncanTjgriffith: Does your backend know which volumes are part of which cloud or something?16:49
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hemnaDuncanT, ours doesn't.  we won't know which ones to show and which to not show.16:50
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DuncanThemna: I know most don't.16:51
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DuncanThemna: A security conscious deployment could always disable this call via policy....16:51
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jungleboyjDuncanT: ++16:51
hemnathen there is the issue with showing volumes already managed by another deployment, and then managing them....causing conflicts and pain.16:52
SwansonI'm not implementing nuthin until Dell's phalanx of liability lawyers and crack security team takes a gander.16:52
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DuncanThemna: Nothing stopping them doing that manually today16:53
hemnathat is true, but this makes it way easier and more likely to happen16:53
smcginnisOne more thing I wanted to bring up before we run out of time. There's been some grumbling that it's taking much longer to get things reviewed.16:53
hemnatoday the admin has to manually find the volume, which is good and bad at the same time.16:53
DuncanThemna: Not so sure of that, personally16:53
smcginnis#link Review Links16:53
smcginnisPlease please spend time reviewing patches if you can.16:53
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hemnasmcginnis, yes dad!  :)16:54
smcginnishemna: Now go to your room!16:54
* geguileo wonder if everybody missed his comment on wanting to talk about broken rolling upgrades...16:54
SwansonMy failback patch finally got a review! Thanks xyang1 !16:54
kfarrAlso before we run out of time and in a similar vein, to follow up from last week, I'd like to request reviews for the Castellan integration code. Spec:, code:
* DuncanT has had his upstream time cut by his employer :-( Still doing some reviews but not nearly as many as I did16:54
smcginnisgeguileo: Doh! Don't be so polite! :)16:54
xyang1Swanson: now you need to find more reviewers:)16:55
smcginnisgeguileo: That's more important. We still have 5 minutes.16:55
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geguileoWell, our rolling upgrades are currently a little broken16:55
DuncanTkfarr: I need to get back to that. Looks like the patch is actually better than the spec suggests it is16:55
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geguileoI discovered it last month a posted a couple of patches16:55
smcginnisgeguileo: Can you sumarize the issue?16:55
kfarrOk, thanks DuncanT, please leave a comment on the review links with your thoughts16:56
geguileoFull description is here:
geguileoFirst patch is this one:
geguileoAnd we have 2 issues16:56
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DuncanTkfarr: Will do. Sorry about the delay, I've been rather busy :-(16:56
geguileo1, we are not keeping our OVO lists in sync with the OVO they are listing16:56
geguileo2 we don't have relationship maps for the backports16:56
kfarrDuncanT, I understand :)16:56
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smcginnisgeguileo: Nice write up. I'll have to spend some time reading through that.16:57
geguileoSo when OSLO tries to do a backport of a Volume16:57
geguileoDoesn't know which version of VolumeType it must backport the volume_type field16:57
smcginnisgeguileo: So you have some patches out to fix this? Or is there more to fix?16:57
geguileoAnd that happens for all Versioned Objects that have other Versioned Object fields16:57
geguileosmcginnis: The first 2 patches in that series fix this16:58
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geguileoFirst one links lists to their OVO contents16:58
geguileoThe second one creates a mechanism to auto generate the relationships based on our OVO history16:58
smcginnisgeguileo: Great!16:58
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geguileoI'll send a new update in 10 minutes with a commit message change on the second patch16:59
geguileoBut they should be ready to go after that16:59
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geguileoWell, that was all16:59
smcginnisgeguileo: Thanks! I'll watch for the update.16:59
DuncanTgeguileo: Can we log a warning (or info) every time we backport an object version?16:59
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smcginnisthingee: Hah! One minute to spare. ;)17:00
geguileoDuncanT: Mmmmm, we probably could17:00
DuncanTgeguileo: IT should only happen during an upgrade, and stop happening at the end of it, right?17:00
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* thingee was passed out somewhere in vancouver17:00
smcginnisAnd times up...17:00
geguileoDuncanT: Yes17:00
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smcginnisSee you back in channel. Thanks everyone.17:00
geguileoDuncanT: So during upgrades your logs would grow a lot...17:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 17:00:45 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes (text):
DuncanTgeguileo: Being noisy about it for a while seems like a good plan then... we can turn it off once we're happier17:00
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geguileoDuncanT: But we can do it as a debug log17:01
geguileoDuncanT: Would that be ok with you?17:01
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krtaylor#startmeeting ironic_qa17:01
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 17:01:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at
DuncanTgeguileo: debug is fine I guess. Not much real difference17:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'ironic_qa'17:01
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krtaylorhi everyone, I'm hosting this week, jlvillal is away17:02
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mjturek1hey krtaylor :)17:02
krtaylorAs always the agenda is at:
krtaylorhi mjturek117:02
krtaylorits a pretty light agenda this week17:02
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krtaylor#topic Announcements17:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:03
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krtaylorso any announcement this week?17:03
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watanabe_isaokrtaylor, may I give a Info?17:03
vdrokone announcement from me - we now have tests for microversions in tempest -
krtaylorwatanabe_isao, sure, you have the floor17:04
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krtaylorvdrok, excellent!17:04
watanabe_isao#Info Fujitsu iRMC CI gave its first test result to Ironic, yesterday (5/25). Currently the CI is not so stable due to some intra network issue. And we set it to non-voting for now. We will try our best to fix the issue, and start to vote ASAP.17:04
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krtaylorwatanabe_isao, it should be non-voting for a while, until it proved to be robust17:04
krtaylorbut thats good news!17:05
rloogreat work watanabe_isao!17:05
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watanabe_isaokrtaylor, sure.17:05
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watanabe_isaorloo, thank you.17:05
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krtaylorok, any other announcements?17:05
krtaylor#topic Grenade17:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Grenade (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:06
krtaylorgreat progress this week!17:06
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krtayloranyone want to make any comments or raise any topics on grenade?17:07
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jrolljust that we need reviews, sounds like things are passing just fine :)17:07
jrollpatches are on the etherpad there17:07
krtayloryep, looks like 8 patch sets are left17:08
* devananda sneaks in the back, catches up17:08
vdrokmorning devananda ! :)17:08
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krtayloranything else?17:09
krtaylor#topic Functional testing17:09
*** openstack changes topic to "Functional testing (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:09
krtaylorI'm not aware of any progress here, anyone?17:09
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* jroll hasn't heard anything17:10
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rloosorry can i ask a dumb question about grenade tests.17:10
rlooonce those patches are *in*, we have grenade tests working, right?17:10
rloothen do we add more tests to grenade?17:10
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vdrokrloo: yep, grenade is pretty stable, grenade partial is not atm17:10
vdrokand I think we don't add tests to grenade17:11
vdrokit just runs smoke17:11
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rloovdrok: ok, so next thing is to get grenade partial working?17:11
vdrokmaybe we'll add something in resorce_create and resource_verify, but dunno17:11
jrollwell, I'd like to make sure smoke covers everything we care about, e.g. rebuild17:11
rloovdrok: I mean, after you party and take a break :)17:11
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jrollbut yes, the next would be grenade partial working. which implies getting rolling upgrades working. :)17:12
jroll(well, and making grenade a voting job, ofc)17:12
vdrokrloo: yes, it mostly works, I guess the reason it's unstable is concurrency 217:12
rloook, just want to make sure there is a list of things-to-do17:12
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jrollshall we move on?17:13
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krtaylorok, so I think we are past functional17:13
vdrokjroll: isn't partial just cold upgrading ironic ironic without everything else?17:13
devanandawhat are the chances we'll get grenade testing on some of hte current stable branches?17:13
devanandavdrok: there are two forms of partial upgrade that I think we need to cover17:13
devananda1. upgrade some ironic services17:14
jrollvdrok: it's making sure new ironic-conductor works with old ironic-api, which is the basis for rolling upgrades17:14
devananda2. upgrade some openstack services but not others17:14
jrolldevananda: (2) is completely different, and something we should work on, but as a separate task17:14
krtaylorlets jump back to this topic in the open discussion17:14
devanandajroll: agreed. but it's also a "partial upgrade"17:14
devanandakrtaylor: sure, sorry17:14
jrollkrtaylor: +117:14
vdrokaha, the reason I ask is I saw it passing a couple of times :)17:14
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krtaylor#topic 3rd party CI17:15
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* jroll is excited about this topic17:15
krtaylorI just sent an email for more eyes on the status of the teams17:15
krtaylorin the driver wiki17:15
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* rloo likes to see jroll excited17:15
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watanabe_isaokrtaylor, do I need to provide any Info (of iRMC CI) to you to update the driver wiki?17:16
krtaylorI have talked to a few teams and made a couple of changes, but I doubt it is complete17:16
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jrollso I see CI systems that say they're reporting on every patch, that are not reporting on every patch17:16
jrolle.g. irmc just started reporting today, I don't think that's enough data17:16
krtaylorwatanabe_isao, yes, please review the ironic/driver page17:17
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jrolloneview reports on patches touching ironic/drivers/ only, apparently17:17
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watanabe_isaokrtaylor, sure sir.17:17
krtaylorjroll, I don't doubt it17:17
jrollcisco must also be filtering based on file, I don't see it on e.g.
TheJuliajroll: I believe that is hardware capacity issues combinded with providing timely feedback17:17
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thiagoptrue, I talked about it on the Summit with some people. We just don't have enough hardware to run on every patch17:17
krtaylorjroll, I'd like to get this table sanity checked for sure17:18
jrollwell, those systems need to get there IMO17:18
jrollfrom the spec: "It runs the expected tests for every patch set that is not excluded. Reasons for this exclusion will be documented and approved by the ironic team."17:18
jrollI don't remember seeing any exclusions documented, let alone approving them17:18
krtayloryes, and we also said that it didn't have to be in the 4 hour window to start17:19
jrollthe spec also says "unless that change is to code or documentation that can not impact the driver"17:19
jrollcertainly ironic/utils/ can impact drivers17:19
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jrollalmost certainly*17:19
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krtaylor4hrs  is the recommended time to turn around a comment17:19
jrollwell, 8 hours in Newton, 4 in Ocata17:20
thiagopMaybe we should relax this requirement? Ironic testing requires hardware...17:20
krtaylorironic patches usually don't come in so fast to make that a problem  :)17:20
jrollright, there aren't a lot of patches17:20
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jrollthis was a known caveat when we introduced it17:20
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jrollvendors said it would be fine, given the estimates on number of patches17:20
krtaylorexactly, lets see commenting and if it is past 8hrs evaluate then17:21
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thiagopI'm trying to reduce our testing time, but yesterday I was with 18 patches on my queue at some point...17:21
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jrollwith the addition that I expect every patch running in CI17:21
devanandasome of the large patch sets that get rebased periodically might be affecting this right now17:21
jrollor rather, following the rules upstream CI does17:21
devanandaeg, the network integration17:21
devanandajroll: what was the estimated # of patches per day mentioned at the summit? do you recall?17:22
krtaylorI don't think teams should just give up, run through the queue and see how long it takes17:22
jrollsure, we won't panic if some CI can't handle the load of a large series being uploaded17:22
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jrollI don't, sorry17:22
thiagopI think it was 3017:22
* krtaylor looks at his notes17:22
jrollthis is the exclusion list for upstream CI
watanabe_isaoyesterday, there were 45 patches for 24 hours.17:23
rloothat's 30 revisions to patches.17:23
krtaylorbut that is abnormal17:23
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devanandajroll: that exclusion list seems fine for 3rd party too, IMO17:24
jrolldevananda: yep, that's my thought17:24
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jrollso yeah, just wanted to point out the requirements, and that there are CIs that say they fulfill the requirement but don't in reality17:25
krtaylorwell, I'll be happy to correct info on the wiki status table, but I probably shouldn't be the one policing it17:26
jrollkrtaylor: yeah, I'm happy to fix it too17:26
TheJuliaAgreed, thiagop, any chance you can update your filter to match the above link of sorts, excluding the other vendor drivers so we can see how long repsonses are in?17:26
jrollkrtaylor: just curious where the "reports on everything" came from :)17:26
krtaylorjroll, thanks!17:26
devanandajroll: have we stated an expectation that 3rdparty CI test other projects in the ironic group?17:26
jrolldevananda: we have not, and I don't expect to need that17:27
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krtaylorjroll, like I said at summit, most of the info was from either the etherpad, infra account info, etc17:27
devanandaeg, ironic-lib17:27
jrolldevananda: perhaps make it optional if they're concerned about it breaking17:27
thiagopTheJulia: I can, yes17:27
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jrolldevananda: we have depends-on if we as developers think a patch may be problematic17:27
TheJuliathiagop: That would be awesome :)17:27
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thiagopTheJulia: but the average time for builds on the current CI is 80min17:28
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thiagopTheJulia: on the new CI, using nodepool, I dropped it to 36min so far17:28
jrollah, that sounds better17:29
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TheJuliaoh that does sound far better17:29
devanandathiagop: nice!17:29
thiagopbut it's not stable yet...17:29
thiagopworking on it today/tomorrow17:29
* krtaylor needs to see if the CI dashboard will show some historical info to make a determination which teams really have CI17:29
jrollwhat was the old CI using, just curious?17:30
thiagopjroll: it was building devstack on a KVM in a custom script17:30
thiagopnodepool caching really REALLY helps to cut time17:30
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krtaylorthiagop, mmedvede from my team has some really good optimization experience17:31
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krtaylorso did we get to a conclusion on CI topics?17:32
thiagopkrtaylor: I'll talk to him/her as soon as my tests are passing. Thanks!17:32
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krtaylorthiagop, sure np, he now runs the third party CI working group meetings17:32
jrollwell, conclusions I've seen: 1) follow the guidelines, 2) myself or kurt need to update the wiki thing17:33
rlooif most vendors have same issues wrt optimization, would it help to have some documentation about best practise or whatever?17:33
watanabe_isaothiagop, what CI cloud are you using for your nodepool, please? KVM?17:33
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krtaylorrloo, I don't see why not, that makes sense17:33
krtaylormjturek1, ^^^17:34
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krtaylorI think that is an area that we can share our experience and at least start docs for ironic CI17:35
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krtaylorso lets move on17:35
thiagopwatanabe_isao: the nodepool is in our internal cloud of the lab17:35
krtaylor#topic General QA17:35
*** openstack changes topic to "General QA (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:35
thiagopkrtaylor: sure thing17:35
krtaylorother topics?17:35
* krtaylor thinks we should combine general and open topics in future meetings17:36
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krtaylorwell then, lets open the floor to open discussion17:36
rlooso remind me, what's the purpose of
krtaylor#topic Open Discussion17:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)"17:37
rloovs the marketplace one vs there is some other list of drivers17:37
krtaylorrloo, not much, and the info there is old17:37
devanandarloo: some of the historical data on the wiki should, IMO, be removed17:37
* jroll doesn't like wikis either17:37
krtaylorrloo, I was using it as a place to create a table (because no etherpad tables)17:37
rlooso let's decide/describe what is in each page, so we don't duplicate and whatever.17:37
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thiagopor eliminate some maybe :)17:38
devanandakrtaylor: the last table on the wiki looks like where you're tracking that status, yes?17:38
krtaylorbut that is true for a lot of our wiki sub pages17:38
thiagopconsolidate information...17:38
krtaylordevananda, yes17:38
krtaylorwiki cleanup - maybe a good workday kinda activity17:38
devanandalet's remove the rest of the data on that page, replacing with a link to stackalytics drivers page and some info on process to update it ?17:39
rlookrtaylor: even after cleaning up the wiki, is the wiki meant to be kept up-to-date, and if so, who keeps it up-to-date?17:39
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krtaylordevananda, I'd second that17:39
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rlooor do as devananda suggests )17:40
krtaylordevananda, that info is next to the table too17:40
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devanandaand at the end of Newton, let's remove that table, too17:40
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krtaylorthen just CI docs17:40
krtaylorthen we get a gerrit trail for changes17:40
krtaylorand reviews, etc17:41
jrollyay peer review17:41
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krtaylorso, do we need to revisit grenade/rolling upgrades discussion?17:41
devanandaI'd be in favor of basically ceasing to use the wiki as much as possible, especially for documentation17:41
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jrolldevananda: ++17:42
devanandafor tracking things like krtaylor has been doing, it's a little better than an etherpad, but not much17:42
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devanandakrtaylor: would you like to do the honors of trimming that page down? :)17:42
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krtaylorthere is a table plugin for etherpads  :)17:43
devanandakrtaylor: there is?!17:43
krtaylordevananda, sure and yes17:43
krtaylorwe use the etherpad table plugin internally17:43
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devanandammmmmm. I need to find that ...17:43
devanandaanyway :)17:43
krtaylorhm, maybe an upgrade to infro etherpad is in order17:44
devanandarolling upgrades17:44
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devanandajroll: we've talked about the different combinatorial sets of upgrade testing we want, eg. in the summit 'pad17:44
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devanandaI think it'd be helpfu, when folks say 'partial upgrades', to specify which one17:46
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jrollwell, so grenade-partial has historically always meant "partial upgrade of the service under test"17:46
jrollso I prefer to keep that meaning17:47
devanandafair 'nuf17:47
jrollno projects in openstack currently test "full upgrade of a single service in the cloud"17:47
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devanandaI'm pretty sure I recall that, when ironic was going through graduation process, we were required to have an "upgrade ironic before nova" test17:47
jrollso I'm not really concerned with testing that (yet)17:47
devanandaso we did, at one point17:47
jrollI'd be curious if nova folks still care about that17:48
devanandathus my ongoing confusion when folks talk about it as though it never was17:48
devanandame too :)17:48
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jrollI don't remember that fwiw17:48
devanandai'll dig around for a second ...17:49
rloodevananda: if we had that test, what happened to it?17:49
rloodevananda: or do you mean, they wanted that test, but we didn't get it done. is that what nova keeps asking us for?17:50
jrollrloo: if it's grenade-partial-ironic, then it sat not working for the last two years17:50
jrollnova keeps asking us for tempest-full17:50
jroll(as they should)17:50
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rlooironic is a teenager :D17:50
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devanandajroll: yea, grenade-sideways17:51
jrolldevananda: oh, that, that was for the migration from nova-bm though17:51
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devanandaso it was :)17:51
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devanandaAh. so we never had that after the nova-bm migration17:52
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devanandanever mind then :)17:52
jrollright, that was a one time thing17:52
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jrollso idk, I think ironic vN with nova vN-1 is a good thing to test, but let's take one thing at a time and get rolling upgrades working17:53
jrollI *think* that will actually test that, too17:53
devanandajroll: agreed17:53
jrollwell, not quite, meh17:53
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rlooso it would be good if someone would write down what grenade-partial means/types of tests it will include, etc.17:54
jrollwe could add a "finish the ironic upgrade" step17:54
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devanandajroll: ++17:54
jrollrloo: it will be ==grenade, but only upgrade ironic-conductor17:54
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rlooQA folks, is there documentation somewhere about the types of tests that ironic has?17:54
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krtaylorno that I'm aware of17:55
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* krtaylor scribbles down a note17:55
krtaylorok, feels like this is winding down, maybe we continue this in -ironic?17:56
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krtayloranything else?17:57
krtaylorThanks everyone17:57
rloothx krtaylor17:57
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"17:57
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 17:57:49 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)17:57
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Sam-I-Amseems like the usual crowd19:01
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ShillaSaebi#startmeeting docteam19:01
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 19:01:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ShillaSaebi. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:02
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:02
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'docteam'19:02
ShillaSaebihello everyone19:02
ShillaSaebiwho do we have here for the docs meeting?19:02
ShillaSaebiroll call!19:02
strigaziSpyros Trigazis (magnum)19:02
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ShillaSaebijust the 3 of us?19:03
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strigazithink so19:03
ShillaSaebiwell then19:03
ShillaSaebiguess we can go ahead and get started19:03
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ShillaSaebi#topic Action items from the last meeting19:04
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*** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:04
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Sam-I-Amwell, i was supposed to write up an email about lack of dev contributions to docs19:05
ShillaSaebi#topic Specs in review #link,n,z19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs in review #link,n,z (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:05
Sam-I-Amlana sort of opened that can of worms in her weekly docs e-mail, but no one responded to it19:05
ShillaSaebi"Sam-I-Am to start thread on dev doc contributions"19:05
ShillaSaebiyeah i figured that it went out19:05
Sam-I-Amalso no further replies to my original email to the dev list19:05
Sam-I-Amso i'm guessing no one really cares19:05
Sam-I-Amwhich i dont like, but it is what it is19:06
Sam-I-Amsort of tells me we need more active recruiting of devs from each project19:06
Sam-I-Amthey need to learn from magnum :)19:06
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Sam-I-Amits really nice to have someone here from a project19:07
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ShillaSaebilet me look at the APAC meeting log19:07
ShillaSaebiand see if maybe we have more join there?19:07
Sam-I-Amsure, but its usually quiet19:07
strigaziIt was like 15 mins19:07
strigazi3 or 4 people19:07
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ShillaSaebiloquacities, JRobinson__ , katomo, rstarmer19:08
strigaziI checked the log last week19:08
ShillaSaebiyeah so 4 peeps19:08
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ShillaSaebialright well what are our next steps19:08
strigaziI have some questions19:09
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strigaziA team member of magnum needs to document magnum's api19:09
strigaziWe have this:
Sam-I-Ami think my new e-mail idea changes to us getting more active recruiting rather than hoping people show up19:10
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strigaziI don't know in which repo this resided19:10
strigaziis it a repo from doc-team?19:11
Sam-I-Amthe api is sort of moving19:11
ShillaSaebioh yeah19:11
Sam-I-Amapi docs, rather19:11
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Sam-I-Amthe cli-reference is different from the api19:12
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Sam-I-Amwhich are we talking about?19:12
strigazilet me check19:12
ShillaSaebishould be in cli-reference right?19:13
strigazioh he wants to do both :)19:13
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strigaziboth must be pushed on openstack-manuals?19:14
Sam-I-Amit seems like we're moving api docs into project trpos19:15
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Sam-I-Amstrigazi: i suggest you read existing posts about api on the docs mailing list, or post to it about how to try the new api docs mechanism19:15
Sam-I-Ambut iirc, they're moving into the repos19:15
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strigazisimilar to install-guide I guess19:15
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Sam-I-Amyes, similar to the install guide19:16
Sam-I-Ambut probably a bit easier to coordinate among projects19:16
Sam-I-Ammailing list if definitely your best shot19:16
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Sam-I-Ami know anne is looking for more people willing to try it19:17
ShillaSaebi#topic Speciality teams19:17
*** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:17
ShillaSaebicheck out the reports from last week19:17
ShillaSaebifor updates on whats going on19:17
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strigazicool, thanks19:18
strigaziI'm writing magnum's install-guide as it's described in the recent spec19:20
Sam-I-Amhows it working?19:20
strigaziI'm adding a guide from source19:20
strigaziIf you have time, have a look19:21
ShillaSaebicool, ill take a look19:21
ShillaSaebithanks strigazi19:21
Sam-I-Amoh, virtualenvs, thats cool.19:21
Sam-I-Amhopefully the other projects do something similar19:22
strigaziAnd I added init scripts and systemd units19:22
strigaziin an examples dir19:22
Sam-I-Amyeah, thats also cool. i think we need templates for those sorts of things.19:22
strigaziThere is an install guide cookiecutter template19:22
strigazibut for packaged installations19:23
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Sam-I-Ammore source = better19:23
Sam-I-Amespecially since most projects dont have packages19:23
Sam-I-Ami've always wanted the install guide to support source, but it is more steps that go outside of most people's comfort zones19:23
Sam-I-Ammost new users arent devs19:23
strigaziEven if there are packages many people build their own19:24
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strigaziok, I don't know if they are many, but we do19:24
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strigaziFor the old install-guide, now moved, I think I'll finish it this or next week19:26
strigaziIt took me some time19:26
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Sam-I-AmShillaSaebi: anything else?19:29
ShillaSaebithanks strigazi19:29
ShillaSaebi#info Install Guide: meeting has been rebooted:
ShillaSaebi#topic Countdown to release: #link
*** openstack changes topic to "Countdown to release: #link (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:29
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ShillaSaebiand the Newton deliverables are accessible via this #link
ShillaSaebithats really all I got for today19:30
ShillaSaebi#topic open discussion19:30
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)"19:30
ShillaSaebianyone have anything they want to bring up?19:30
strigaziI'm good19:30
ShillaSaebithank you all for joining19:31
ShillaSaebihave a great rest of the week19:31
ShillaSaebisee you all in 2 weeks hopefully19:31
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"19:31
openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 19:31:24 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)19:31
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notmynameswift team meeting time21:00
notmyname#startmeeting swift21:00
openstackMeeting started Wed May 25 21:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:00
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)"21:00
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'swift'21:00
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notmynamehello, everyone. who's here for the swift team meeting?21:00
claygLET'S DO THIS!21:00
notmynameall right21:01
notmynameagenda is at21:01
notmynamea few things to go over this week21:01
notmyname#topic crypto update21:01
*** openstack changes topic to "crypto update (Meeting topic: swift)"21:01
notmynamejrichli: acoles: where are we this week?21:02
notmynameready to get a review branch to master yet? :-)(21:02
jrichliwe keep finding more to do :-)21:02
acolesnotmyname: well i keep moving cards on the trello board21:02
acolesyeah, then more appear!21:02
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acolesbut we are getting close, I hope21:02
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notmyname is up to date with the crypto patches needing review? I still see some listed that were there last week21:03
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acolesbeen struggling to merge master to feature/crypto this week, hopefully we have nailed that as an other-requirements.txt issue21:03
notmynamegreat. we should know something there as soon as the gate jobs run21:03
acolesnotmyname: yes priority reviews is up to date21:04
acolesnotmyname: yes some are same as last week21:04
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jrichliwe got some feedback from one of the cyrptographers we work with: so far so good - small adjustments to make21:04
acolespatch 316924 shouldn't be too hard, requires no knowledge of feature/crypto21:04
patchbotacoles: - swift (feature/crypto) - crypto - make some probe tests compatible with crypto21:04
notmynamejrichli: great21:04
notmynamefor everyone, if you're looking for something to review, please start with the stuff on
acolesnotmyname: it does feel like we're getting down to small tweaks (famous last words...)21:05
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notmynameacoles: jrichli: other than those reviews, anything you need from the rest of us?21:06
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acolesreviews would be great, and not just the priority ones21:07
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* acoles thanks mahatic and timburke for helping out21:07
timburkehappy to help21:08
notmynameok. we should all feel appropriately guilty for not reviewing ( mahatic and timburke excluded)21:08
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jrichli+2! and tdasilva21:08
jrichli+2 was for the thanks21:08
acoleshehe +2 that guilt ;)21:08
notmynamejrichli: no, you're trying to lay down the guilt trip, right?21:08
* jrichli shakes head21:08
notmynamethanks for the crypto update and working on it. let's all do better this next week about reviewing the code21:09
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notmyname#topic rolling upgrade tests status update21:09
*** openstack changes topic to "rolling upgrade tests status update (Meeting topic: swift)"21:09
notmynamecschwede: are you here?21:09
cschwedenothing new - still waiting for reviews of
patchbotcschwede: patch 304465 - openstack-infra/devstack-gate - Use subnodes for Swift storage nodes in a multinod...21:09
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notmynameand patch 297311 right?21:10
patchbotnotmyname: - openstack-infra/devstack-gate - Run swift services on subnode21:10
cschwedeno; as commented on that patch this is not required and in fact a different approach21:10
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notmynameah, ok21:11
notmynameI'll also start trying to bug people about patch 304465 since it's blocking us21:11
patchbotnotmyname: - openstack-infra/devstack-gate - Use subnodes for Swift storage nodes in a multinod...21:11
notmynamethanks for the update21:11
mattoliverauI'll poke the infra core on my team.21:11
mattoliverauwhen he wakes up21:12
notmyname#topic pyeclib/liberasurecode migration updates21:12
*** openstack changes topic to "pyeclib/liberasurecode migration updates (Meeting topic: swift)"21:12
notmynametdasilva: what's up with these?21:12
tdasilvathey've been moved to openstack domain:
tdasilvabut we are also waiting on a patch to add gate jobs21:12
patchbottdasilva: patch 317672 - openstack-infra/project-config - add python jobs to pyeclib project21:12
notmynamedo they currently have the noop gate?21:12
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notmynameand can they accept patches right now? ie new code goes there instead of bitbucket?21:13
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notmynamehas there been any update on the bitbucket side to point people to the openstack repo?21:13
tdasilvabut we would have to run tests on our machines21:13
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notmynamewe should anyway ;-)21:14
tdasilvano, I can work with Tushar on that21:14
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notmynameok, thanks21:14
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tdasilvasorry, I meant, we would have to rely just on that in order to merge, as opposed to having jobs at the gate...21:14
notmynameso it seems like we're pretty much ready to go on those, and the final cleanup work is to get the gate stuff set up21:14
notmynameright :-)21:14
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tdasilvanotmyname, notmyname: should we try to do a "small" release just to test that??21:15
notmynameclayg was looking for a release there, I think, so we shoudl probably tag one with the bug fix and call it good!21:15
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tdasilvaI'll work with clayg to see what he would like on that release21:16
notmynametdasilva: clayg: let's chat after the meeting about hwo to do a release and what needs to be in it21:16
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tdasilvasorry, ok let's talk after the meeting, but not immediately after ;)21:16
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notmyname#topic symlinks21:16
*** openstack changes topic to "symlinks (Meeting topic: swift)"21:16
notmynametdasilva: you're still up. what's up with symlinks (I think you added this one to the agenda)21:17
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tdasilvaI just would like to ask if thereś anybody working on symlinks? I'd like to start contributing to it, but I don't want to step on someone's toes21:17
tdasilvaso I thought I'd ask first..21:17
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notmynamein Austin, jrichli stepped up to be the point person for it21:18
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notmynameand of course m_kazuhiro has done a lot of thinking (and code?) for it21:18
jrichlitdasilva and I have had a few private chats21:18 I'll keep working with jrichli on that...21:19
acolestdasilva: last time we discussed it here there seemed to be more clarity needed about what use case(s) were to be addressed, did we get any further with that?21:19
notmynamepublic as possible :-)21:19
tdasilvaand m_kazuhiro...21:19
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jrichliI tried to start listing the scenarios that need to be designed for the current POST strategy: but i need lots of help!21:19
jrichlithats on the etherpad now21:19
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tdasilvaright...I've been doing some thinking on the POST issue, but it's probably a good idea to focus on the use cases first21:20
jrichlitdasilva has been working on the impl that is in review.  BTW - that should proably be a WIP21:20
tdasilvayeah, I marked that as a WIP...21:20
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acolesbtw, fast-post functional test is now *voting* in the gate ;)21:21
notmynamewould anyone like to work with jrichli and tdasilva on identifying those POST issues?21:21
notmynameacoles: yay21:21
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acolesnotmyname: I've thought a lot about the POST issues but I cannot commit time until we finish encryption21:21
claygacoles: wtg fast-post!21:21
notmynameacoles: sounds reasonable :-)21:22
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notmynameand yeah, I think the symlink stuff is an "after crypto" priority overall21:22
tdasilvaacoles: I've been trying to write some stuff up and post it on the etherped. hopefully at some point we can get your feedback...21:22
tdasilvanotmyname: right, agreed21:23
notmynamesince it's written down, that's good. even if we don't get to it for a few more weeks, it's still something that we should be able to pick up quickly21:23
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notmynametdasilva: anything else on symlinks for this meeting?21:23
mattoliverauI'm happy to think POST issues :)21:23
tdasilvais torgomatic still working on it?21:23
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mattoliverausorry looks like internet is laggy21:24
tdasilvahe wrote the inital spec, not sure if he was still thinking about it21:24
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notmynametdasilva: not sure if he's here. but no, not really, AFAIK21:24
torgomaticlet's see here...21:24
torgomatic"it has not been a priority recently"21:24
torgomatichow'd I do? ;)21:24
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tdasilvatorgomatic: hehe, ok, thanks!21:25
notmynameok, next topic21:25
notmyname#topic bugs from translations21:25
*** openstack changes topic to "bugs from translations (Meeting topic: swift)"21:25
notmynamethis one is interesting21:25
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notmynameacoles: you put it on the agenda. want to give an overview?21:26
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openstackLaunchpad bug 1580678 in OpenStack Object Storage (swift) "UnicodeDecodeError when rebalancing a ring" [Undecided,New]21:26
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notmynamenot sure if I'm lagging or if acoles might be21:27
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acolesoh yes, I added this last week, the bug arises when a french locale is used and the translation has non-ascii characters, that causes a UnicodeError in our logging21:28
* acoles was typing into wrong window!21:28
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acolesjust a question for the collective wisdom - any ideas on how we can test to prevent bugs creeping in with translations? anyone have any experience of that kind of test job?21:28
mattoliverauunicode errors aren't funny notmyname :P21:28
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claygacoles: I think the best solution is to stop wrapping strings in _()21:29
notmynamethey're fünny21:29
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acolesI suspect it's not confined to the french locale, in case anyone thinks I am picking on one nation :)21:29
acolesclayg: right!21:29
notmynamesomething like a job that runs tests in a different locale?21:29
claygtimburke: you write it up and acoles and I will +2 it21:30
cschwedemaybe adding one test-run in the gte with a different locale set?21:30
notmynameyeah, not translating the strings is one way to stop those errors...21:30
claygcschwede: if I change my local and run tests do they fail currently?21:30
notmynamebut I kinda think we probably need to do both21:30
acolesor only allowing one language in a project ?? :P21:30
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cschwedeclayg: iirc, yes (but it depends on the locale)21:30
torgomaticyeah, testing with a non-english locale shouldn’t be too bad21:30
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notmynameacoles: :-)21:31
cschwedewhile thinking about it - we would need to test all translated locales; some strings are translated in one locale, but not in others…21:31
acolescschwede: so is that something that can be configured in devstack, so easy enough to add a gate job?21:31
notmynamecan't we pick one of the 10-12 languages that are 100% translated?21:31
timburkeif we want an english-like locale that's certain to have lots of non-ascii characters in every translated string, try
acolescschwede: yep, that's the problem, but a sample test would smoke out some bugs21:32
tdasilvasome other project must have run into this before...21:32
claygtimburke: that script needs a docstring or something21:32
timburkeall my scripts need docstrings :P21:32
cschwedeacoles: i didn’t check this so far, but i assume it wouldn’t be too difficult to add it to devstack/devstack-gate21:32
notmynamecschwede: would you have time to look into that this week?21:33
cschwedenot sure this week, but next Monday - yes21:33
acolesof course, if we did have such a job, it would frustrate the translators if we didn't then fix the bugs!21:33
acolesbut that's better than frustrated ops21:33
notmynamecschwede: ok, that's fine, I think21:33
acolescschwede: thank you21:33
acolescschwede: danke21:34
notmynamegreat. we'll check back on this one next week21:34
notmyname#topic priority reviews21:34
*** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: swift)"21:34
claygi didn't see anything in the bug report that indicated that LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 was an an acceptable work around21:34
notmyname hasn't landed21:34
patchbotnotmyname: patch 317475 - swift - Send correct size in POST async update for EC object21:34
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notmynametorgomatic: you've already looked at it once. can you look again to give a review vote?21:34
torgomaticnotmyname: sure21:35
notmynamecan someone else also volunteer to review that patch please?21:35
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timburkei probably will, too. i've looked at a similar change on crypto21:36
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notmynamekota_: timburke: thanks21:36
notmynameI think that once patch 317475 lands I'll be able to tag a release21:36
patchbotnotmyname: - swift - Send correct size in POST async update for EC object21:36
notmynameother than the crypto reviews that we already talked about, there's nothing else listed on the priority reviews page21:37
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notmynameanything that should be there?21:37
jrichlinotmyname: could we add container-sync?21:37
jrichlipatch 210099 and patch 22533821:37
patchbotjrichli: - swift - Add process level concurrency to container sync21:37
patchbotjrichli: - swift - Add thread level concurrency to container sync21:37
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notmynamehmm...they were there21:37
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notmynamejrichli: yeah, I can add them back21:37
notmyname#topic open discussion21:38
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)"21:38
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notmynameanything else to bring up this week?21:38
timburkethanks torgomatic and notmyname for getting patch 311817 in!21:38
patchbottimburke: - swift - Allow concurrent bulk deletes (MERGED)21:38
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notmynameI feel like I should try to give an update on the golang/TC stuff21:39
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mattoliveraunotmyname: go ahead21:39
notmynamei'm working on a reply to a couple of emails now, but it's gotten to be a rather confusing conversation21:39
notmynamethe discussion has moved way beyond "is a project allowed to use golang"21:40
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notmynamethere's a lot more support for "if it's not python, it's not openstack" than I expected21:40
notmynameso one current thread of the conversation is about what that would mean specifically for swift21:41
notmynameand I'm working on that21:41
notmynameanother thread of the conversation is "is swift really part of openstack"21:42
notmynameto be honest, both of those are really stressful and frustrating for me (as anyone who's in the same office as me can attest to)21:42
notmynamei'm working on some replies to those now21:42
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notmynamethis morning I got to dig into the annals of history and find the 2-year-old "gap analysis" questions from the TC and the "is swift required" discussions from defcore21:43
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notmynamenothing at all has been decided yet21:44
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acolesnotmyname: the TC meeting yesterday seemed to be divided on 'allow no golang' vs 'allow golang with guidelines' - did I understand that they assigned champions to argue each side?21:44
notmynamesort of. personally, I hate that model of discussion. but I've got an email waiting for a reply that's based off of that21:45
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redboI demand trial by combat21:45
notmynameasking me to describe the technical and community consequences of having swift split into pieces and have external dependencies that aren't in openstack21:46
notmynamefrankly I think that's is nearly completely untenable and overall a very very bad idea. so I need to write down all the reasons why21:46
mattoliveraunotmyname: wow, I think we all owe you a beer or something stronger at the mid-cycle! Thanks for all your effort on this.21:46
torgomaticit's like golang has cooties21:47
claygsrly, so good this is your job and like... not anyone else's in this channel21:47
dfg_get him drunk and then get him to write some emails to openstack TC. great idea :)21:47
claygi can not imagine having enough %^&s to give21:47
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acolestorgomatic: lurgi in my locale21:48
claygi'm all like "yeah I don't know what you people are talking about, let's start rebasing a patch chain and see what it looks like"21:48
notmynameus: "hey everyone, we're going to make things faster" tc: "but wait, are you sure you're even a part of openstack?"21:48
hurricanerixnotmyname reply with
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acolesnotmyname: it's payback for messing with the tables in Austin :)21:49
claygat somepoint they'd be like "you can't commit click +A in gerrit anymore" and I'd be like "yeah I don't know what you're talking about - let's just fork to this other github project and get back to work"21:49
notmynameI'll keep everyone updated as the conversations keep going21:50
acolesnotmyname: thanks for the update21:50
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notmynameanything else from anyone?21:50
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tdasilvalooking forward to your email21:51
notmynametdasilva: that makes one of us! :-)21:51
redboas a hedge, I'll register openerstack.org21:51
mattoliverauredbo: lol21:51
notmynamethanks everyone for all your work on swift. regardless of openstack mailing list threads, swift's being used all over the world at large scale in production. and that's because of your work. thanks21:52
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings ||"21:52
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openstackMeeting ended Wed May 25 21:52:24 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at . (v 0.1.4)21:52
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anteayanotmyname: can you take patchbot with you please?21:58
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