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| b1airo | #startmeeting scientific-wg | 07:00 |
|---|---|---|
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 07:00:35 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is b1airo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 07:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 07:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 07:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg' | 07:00 |
| b1airo | Hi all | 07:00 |
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| oneswig | Morning/afternoon/evening | 07:01 |
| verdurin | Morning. | 07:01 |
| b1airo | now how do I give oneswig chair too? | 07:01 |
| b1airo | let's try this... | 07:01 |
| b1airo | #chair oneswig | 07:01 |
| openstack | Current chairs: b1airo oneswig | 07:01 |
| b1airo | yay! | 07:01 |
| oneswig | power of IRC is strong! | 07:01 |
| oneswig | #topic roll call | 07:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "roll call (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 07:01 | |
| b1airo | #force-lightening | 07:01 |
| oneswig | \o/ | 07:01 |
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| verdurin | Adam from the Crick here | 07:02 |
| oneswig | Hi Adam | 07:02 |
| b1airo | hi Adam, thanks for joinging | 07:02 |
| noggin143 | Tim from CERN | 07:03 |
| oneswig | Hi Tim | 07:03 |
| b1airo | hi Tim, i hoped this time would suit - glad it seems too | 07:04 |
| oneswig | We are down a bit from last week's 20-odd though... | 07:04 |
| b1airo | yeah, that was fairly impressive | 07:04 |
| oneswig | OK shall we go through the agenda | 07:05 |
| b1airo | yep | 07:05 |
| oneswig | #topic Action items from last week | 07:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from last week (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 07:05 | |
| oneswig | I had an item to look at user stories and how they might fit | 07:06 |
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| verdurin | I see I need to add eMedLab to https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/science-clouds | 07:06 |
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| oneswig | I looked through the Product WG pages, there's some good infrastructure there | 07:06 |
| oneswig | verdurin: yes please | 07:06 |
| b1airo | my 3 primary items are in progress, nothing finished there yet but should have some wiki updates to publish over the weekend | 07:06 |
| b1airo | yes please verdurin - i have scraped that once already but will circle back | 07:07 |
| oneswig | b1airo: great, will be good to see. Our page might need subdividing it's getting big | 07:07 |
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| verdurin | b1airo: will do so by the end of the week | 07:08 |
| b1airo | yeah i intended to add this stuff as sub-pages - the etherpad de-convolution is taking a bit of head scratching (doesn't help when i try to look at it at night) | 07:08 |
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| oneswig | I had an item to chase up on the BMC issues we have with the Ironic team. I exchanged some mails but didn't file the bug they suggested yet. | 07:08 |
| b1airo | verdurin, did you fill out our little google survey during the summit? (about your deployment/s) | 07:08 |
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| verdurin | b1airo: I filled in the normal survey, as I have done before - was there an extra one? | 07:09 |
| oneswig | b1airo: is there any process for "garbage collection" of old etherpads or do they remain in the historical record in perpetuity? | 07:09 |
| b1airo | verdurin, we created one specific to hpc/science workloads with questions not asked in the main user survey | 07:10 |
| oneswig | b1airo: where's that #link? | 07:10 |
| b1airo | let me find the link for you - would be great to have your data there too if you can spare the five minutes | 07:10 |
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| verdurin | b1airo: sure, happy to fill in that one too | 07:10 |
| b1airo | oneswig, not that i'm aware of | 07:11 |
| oneswig | OK so what actions have rolled over? | 07:11 |
| oneswig | #action oneswig to capture iDRAC BMC failure mode in a bug on python-dracclient | 07:12 |
| oneswig | #action b1airo to continue with transfer of content to wiki from etherpads | 07:13 |
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| oneswig | any others from last week? | 07:13 |
| oneswig | #topic Parallel filesystems | 07:13 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Parallel filesystems (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 07:13 | |
| oneswig | There were some useful discussions on parallel filesystems but I wasn't part of them - was anyone here in that session? | 07:14 |
| b1airo | verdurin, bit.ly/22XB35R | 07:14 |
| b1airo | OpenStack Science & HPC usage survey: | 07:14 |
| b1airo | #link bit.ly/22XB35R | 07:14 |
| b1airo | oneswig, re. actions we should roll over at least these: | 07:14 |
| verdurin | IBM have sent out a survey on OpenStack and GPFS, which I will be filling in at some point. | 07:14 |
| oneswig | verdurin: was it public, can you share a #link to it? | 07:14 |
| verdurin | oneswig: https://www.surveygizmo.com/s3/2774614/IBMSpectrumScale-OpenStackUsageSurvey | 07:15 |
| b1airo | we had a brief email exchange with an IBM developer, sounds like they have a lot of interesting features/possibilities, particularly around exposing things in GPFS via Swift API | 07:15 |
| oneswig | verdurin: thanks | 07:15 |
| verdurin | They had a talk on OpenStack at the user group meeting in London last week. | 07:16 |
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| oneswig | Filesystems are becoming increasingly object stores as well. I heard that Red Hat are defaulting to using Ceph's object store as backing store for Ceilometer time-series data (via Gnocchi) | 07:17 |
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| noggin143 | we | 07:17 |
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| b1airo | the only problem with these integrations is that it seems to be hard to do it with upstream projects and requires using some version of an upstream project (e.g. Swift servers) that the vendor has "tweaked" behind closed doors | 07:17 |
| noggin143 | we've been testing the gnocchi ceph backend. Seems more scalable than ceilometer but still early days | 07:17 |
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| verdurin | Yes, there's a lot of room for improvement in the Swift integration with GPFS. | 07:18 |
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| oneswig | noggin143: any feel for aggregate sampling rate it can sustain for a given Ceph deployment size? | 07:18 |
| verdurin | Though it's a lot better now than it was last year. | 07:18 |
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| b1airo | verdurin, are you using that particular integration? | 07:19 |
| noggin143 | oneswig: doing functional tests at the moment, packaging and puppet so it's a bit early | 07:20 |
| oneswig | OK thanks, I'd be interested to hear how it works out | 07:20 |
| verdurin | b1airo: Not at the moment - just observations of the infrastructure | 07:20 |
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| b1airo | regarding the break-out HPFS group in the scientific-wg meeting - i was there but didn't have a lot of luck bringing discussion back to concrete deliverables beyond use-case doco | 07:20 |
| verdurin | b1airo: that's in eMedLab. For Crick, it's something we might explore. | 07:21 |
| b1airo | though we did agree there were several different angles to come at it: | 07:21 |
| oneswig | b1airo: was there a volunteer to lead this activity? | 07:22 |
| b1airo | 1) plumbing existing non-cloud HPFS into a cloud, so largely network focused, e.g., neutron provider net for hpc-data with filesystem in some reserved part of the subnet range | 07:22 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, no, maybe worth calling out on the list? | 07:23 |
| oneswig | I'll note tha | 07:24 |
| b1airo | 2) manila integration | 07:24 |
| b1airo | 3) fully cloud-ified, i.e., filesystem servers run on the IaaS, presumably mainly for dev/test purposes | 07:24 |
| oneswig | #action Seek a volunteer to lead the WG activities around parallel filesystems | 07:25 |
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| b1airo | at Monash we are doing #1 with Lustre | 07:25 |
| oneswig | As part of the wiki organisation it would be great to have a sub-page for each ativity | 07:26 |
| oneswig | We have an interesting project at Cambridge underway wrt #3 | 07:26 |
| oneswig | Long way off at present though. | 07:26 |
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| oneswig | We have RDMA-enabled JBODs in our cloud, hoping to use iSER to provision lustre in the cloud that isn't dreadful | 07:27 |
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| verdurin | Interesting. | 07:27 |
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| b1airo | #1 seems to work pretty well, at least when you have hardware/SRIOV NICs into instances. but having said that we are seeing a few "odd" dmesg warnings that seem to indicate comms issues between clients and OSTs, yet to really get anywhere with that (causes occasional I/O blips for clients) | 07:28 |
| oneswig | verdurin: am I right in thinking that eMedLab uses GPFS for serving Cinder volumes? | 07:28 |
| verdurin | oneswig: yes | 07:28 |
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| oneswig | b1airo: is the provider network you're using L3 or L2? | 07:28 |
| b1airo | oneswig, should work! ;-) | 07:28 |
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| b1airo | L2 | 07:28 |
| verdurin | Yes, L2 | 07:29 |
| oneswig | b1airo verdurin: good to know, thanks, that'll help our deployment plans | 07:29 |
| b1airo | so can use o2ib LNET with Ethernet vNICs in the guests | 07:29 |
| b1airo | let's talk about accounting and scheduling then? | 07:30 |
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| oneswig | Ah yes. No more on HPFS? | 07:30 |
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| b1airo | did noggin143 volunteer to lead that activity ? | 07:30 |
| oneswig | #topic Accounting and scheduling | 07:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Accounting and scheduling (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)" | 07:31 | |
| noggin143 | I didn't volunteer… | 07:31 |
| b1airo | happy to talk more about that, by all means, just thinking Tim might be more interested in it | 07:31 |
| b1airo | :-) no worries, i was guessing | 07:31 |
| noggin143 | Matt Jarvis was chairing the discussions at the summit but I don't know if he wants to take it on | 07:31 |
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| oneswig | OK, let's make a note to find a leader for accounting and scheduling | 07:32 |
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| noggin143 | I did review the product WG user story. It seems more reservation than quotas | 07:32 |
| oneswig | #action Find a leader for the activities on accounting and scheduling | 07:32 |
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| oneswig | There were references to group quotas, do these not go far enough? | 07:33 |
| noggin143 | #link http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/user-stories/draft/capacity_management.html | 07:33 |
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| noggin143 | It remindered me of Blazar | 07:33 |
| noggin143 | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blazar | 07:33 |
| b1airo | have you tried Blazar? | 07:33 |
| oneswig | Blazar is resurrected in the Chameleon project, did you hear that | 07:34 |
| noggin143 | We never tried blazar (it needed to get more momentum) … would be interested to read about Chameleon | 07:34 |
| verdurin | I must say project proliferation isn't always helpful... | 07:34 |
| noggin143 | There is also some work going on with INFN in the EU Indigo Project called Symphony to add some fair share and pre-emptable instances | 07:35 |
| oneswig | The user story is missing something like "As a cloud service provider, I want to manage the resource usage for a project as a single entity comprising the sum of its users" - is that what they are missing? | 07:35 |
| noggin143 | I think the user story is completely valid but it is not, from my perspective, the HTC/HPC user story for quotas | 07:36 |
| dariov | hi there, sorry for being late, Dario from EMBL-EBI here | 07:36 |
| b1airo | verdurin, i agree - Blazar seems like one of those ideas where lots of people like/want the features but because it isn't part of Nova they are not sure it's safe to integrate. i also think it's hard to (quickly, from scanning the wiki) determine the impact of deploying it from the user and operator perspective | 07:36 |
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| b1airo | hi dariov, thanks for coming! | 07:37 |
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| b1airo | noggin143, Symphony sounds very interesting from the NeCTAR perspective | 07:38 |
| oneswig | noggin143: Do you think that is a separate user story or should it be proposed as a consideration for this story? | 07:38 |
| b1airo | hadn't heard about that | 07:38 |
| noggin143 | I went to a talk at the summit about the Chameleon Cloud if that is the same thing. | 07:38 |
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| noggin143 | #link https://www.openstack.org/videos/video/chameleon-an-experimental-testbed-for-computer-science-as-application-of-cloud-computing-1 | 07:38 |
| noggin143 | They talked about Blazar too. | 07:38 |
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| oneswig | noggin143: that's the one | 07:38 |
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| noggin143 | Not sure what the product WG's preference would be between increasing the complexity of a user story or defining a new one | 07:39 |
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| noggin143 | I think there are significant additional needs from the research sector which would potentially overwhelm the current user story | 07:40 |
| b1airo | i went to the chameleon talk too but had forgotten the mention of preemption | 07:40 |
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| oneswig | OK we should note some actions, what can we do to move the discussion forward? | 07:40 |
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| oneswig | I have been in contact with the PI from Chameleon previously, I can find out what the state of Blazar is and report back | 07:41 |
| noggin143 | #action Tim to follow up with the product WG on research quota user story integration | 07:41 |
| oneswig | Thanks Tim | 07:41 |
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| oneswig | #action oneswig to follow up with Chameleon project re: state of Blazar | 07:41 |
| oneswig | Any others? | 07:42 |
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| oneswig | #topic User stories | 07:42 |
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| oneswig | OK, I did a cursory amount of investigation on this. I think we've covered the user stories from the Product WG already. | 07:43 |
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| oneswig | They have a process for proposing and reviewing them based on code review of a repo of RST documents | 07:43 |
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| oneswig | Very much in the form of spec review | 07:43 |
| b1airo | yep, but what of the scope? | 07:44 |
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| oneswig | It would be interesting to consider what capabilities might be added from a research computing use case | 07:44 |
| oneswig | b1airo: do you mean, what do we get out of creating user stories? | 07:45 |
| b1airo | no i mean at what level should they be scoped, i.e. | 07:46 |
| oneswig | #link user stories filed thus far http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/ | 07:46 |
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| b1airo | i'm a cloud architect who wants to integrate my HPC filesystem into blah datacloud | 07:46 |
| b1airo | is that the right level or too specific | 07:46 |
| oneswig | Not sure. The documents have predefined structure, which should guide the level of detail. They aren't more than a few pages | 07:47 |
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| b1airo | looking at the current proposed list i wonder if that example would be not specific enough | 07:47 |
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| oneswig | #link random user story about integrating an external capability into a cloud environment http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/user-stories/proposed/high-scale-media-Telco-apps.html | 07:48 |
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| oneswig | There's quite a bit more detail in that sample-of-one | 07:49 |
| verdurin | I think there's room for a variation on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/User_Stories/Onboarding_Legacy_Apps | 07:49 |
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| b1airo | right, definitely no particular standard scoping there then it would seem | 07:50 |
| verdurin | where you're migrating from bare-metal, not virtualized | 07:50 |
| verdurin | (I haven't looked at these links before, so forgive me if that's obvious) | 07:50 |
| oneswig | The Product WG is unfamiliar to me as well | 07:51 |
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| b1airo | i'm a bit confused about what http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/ is supposed to be - they seem to really be feature specs rather than particular user-stories | 07:51 |
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| b1airo | or, a mix | 07:52 |
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| oneswig | I think there's more discussion to be had here but we ought to move on. Can we take an action to think around how/where user stories might help? | 07:52 |
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| oneswig | #action Group action to consider ways in which user stories might help for research computing use cases | 07:53 |
| b1airo | sounds good | 07:53 |
| oneswig | Reference architectures: Tim I found a couple of places where CERN's architecture (among others) is described in fairly high-level details in ops guides. | 07:53 |
| b1airo | my initial feeling was that, in the first instance, it would help to simply document some of the deployment architectures/choices that would be relevant to research/hpc use-cases | 07:53 |
| oneswig | Is there a specific place where reference architectures are kept, and kept current? | 07:54 |
| oneswig | b1airo: agreed | 07:54 |
| b1airo | things that answer the "can i do hpc with openstack?" question | 07:54 |
| noggin143 | the CERN architecture has some oldish use case descriptions. | 07:54 |
| noggin143 | it is more HTC than HPC though | 07:54 |
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| oneswig | noggin143: true - I'm just thinking if others were to be created, where would they reside? | 07:55 |
| b1airo | oneswig, wiki for the moment i guess | 07:55 |
| noggin143 | #link https://www.openstack.org/user-stories/ is one place with a reasonably high profile | 07:55 |
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| noggin143 | but this is not really reference architectures. | 07:55 |
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| oneswig | Good link. Is this a discussion item for the user committee mailing list? | 07:56 |
| noggin143 | my feeling is that probably the formal HPC reference architecture should go into the project navigator | 07:57 |
| noggin143 | #link https://www.openstack.org/software/sample-configs | 07:57 |
| b1airo | oh PS, not sure if i mentioned or knew this last week, but i'm now looking after https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/HypervisorTuningGuide - seems relevant for us to steer under this group | 07:57 |
| oneswig | I have found considerable effort has gone into documenting configuration items, but a reference architecture as an integrated entity - they all refer to (eg) Grizzly, Havana that I have found | 07:57 |
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| b1airo | oneswig, yes good thing to raise with user-committee list | 07:58 |
| b1airo | noggin143, yes Flanders wants a few things there by the sound of it | 07:58 |
| oneswig | noggin143: I hadn't seen the sample-configs page before, thanks for sharing. | 07:58 |
| noggin143 | the sample configs are nice in that they are active content and link to the project selection | 07:59 |
| oneswig | Yes, hopefully they won't go stale | 07:59 |
| oneswig | I wonder why when I search for these things, I did not find this | 08:00 |
| b1airo | noggin143, agreed, all that stuff under /software is a slick addition | 08:00 |
| dariov | guys, I’m quite new to how this kind of project works, but let us know if we can help in some way | 08:00 |
| dariov | any pointer to a good entry point would be helpful, by the way | 08:00 |
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| b1airo | dariov, so are we ;-) | 08:00 |
| oneswig | dariov: are you on the user-committee or openstack-operators lists? Good place to start | 08:00 |
| dariov | yep, there already | 08:00 |
| oneswig | we are out of time, thanks everyone | 08:00 |
| oneswig | Any final comments? | 08:01 |
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| dariov | ok, great that’s a general feeling ;-) | 08:01 |
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| verdurin | I'm interested in the white paper mentioned in the agenda | 08:01 |
| oneswig | We'll have to follow up on that another time | 08:01 |
| b1airo | oneswig, yeah the google is a problem, presumably foundation folks are already looking at SEO | 08:01 |
| verdurin | Yes. | 08:01 |
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| b1airo | i did recently add a link from the wiki getting started page to /software | 08:02 |
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| oneswig | #endmeeting | 08:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 08:02 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 08:02:28 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 08:02 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-05-25-07.00.html | 08:02 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-05-25-07.00.txt | 08:02 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-05-25-07.00.log.html | 08:02 |
| b1airo | verdurin, we can discuss on mailing list if you like but have to wrap up now in case others are coming along | 08:02 |
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| verdurin | b1airo: yes, of course | 08:02 |
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| b1airo | dinner for me, see you next time! | 08:03 |
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| verdurin | bye - have to go to work... | 08:03 |
| oneswig | until next time! | 08:03 |
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| dariov | bye! | 08:03 |
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| BobBall | #startmeeting XenAPI | 09:30 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 09:30:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is BobBall. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 09:30 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 09:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 09:31 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'xenapi' | 09:31 |
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| BobBall | Good morning / afternoon / evening all | 09:31 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy: pingity ping :) | 09:31 |
| * johnthetubaguy is lurking with intent to read | 09:31 | |
| BobBall | Good intent | 09:31 |
| jianghuaw | Good morning Bob&johnthetubaguy. | 09:31 |
| BobBall | Well - we need you for the first bit johnthetubaguy :) | 09:31 |
| BobBall | #topic Blueprints / Reviews | 09:32 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Blueprints / Reviews (Meeting topic: XenAPI)" | 09:32 | |
| BobBall | We're rapidly approaching non-priority blueprint freeze | 09:32 |
| BobBall | The three blueprints in https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-nova-priorities-tracking are still pending core reviewers | 09:32 |
| BobBall | Sorry, four | 09:32 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280099/7 - XenAPI: support VGPU via passthrough PCI | 09:32 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277452/ - XenAPI independent hypervisor (fixing interaction layer between Nova + Hypervisor) | 09:32 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274045/5 - Xenapi: a new VDI store via streaming | 09:32 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304377/ - Xenerver compute driver support neutron security group | 09:32 |
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| BobBall | Let's go through them one at a time? | 09:33 |
| BobBall | johnthetubaguy: Any further thoughts on https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280099 ? | 09:33 |
| huanxie | hi all | 09:33 |
| BobBall | That's the VGPU spec | 09:33 |
| BobBall | oh | 09:33 |
| BobBall | haha | 09:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just added a comment, I think we need to point to the code | 09:33 |
| BobBall | Comment 1 minute ago :D | 09:33 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah | 09:33 |
| BobBall | Oh - against sdagues comment? | 09:34 |
| BobBall | Do you want the reference in the spec? | 09:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | more just in the comments | 09:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | we don't have any decent docs on this stuff | 09:34 |
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| BobBall | OK; jianghuaw can you add an update there? | 09:34 |
| johnthetubaguy | so its hard to tell when the API is changing | 09:34 |
| BobBall | Ah - Moshe Levi added the reference to the code | 09:35 |
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| johnthetubaguy | ah, I was just going to double check devref | 09:35 |
| jianghuaw | I didn't get much reference on that. | 09:35 |
| BobBall | clearly someone is watching the spec :) | 09:35 |
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| BobBall | Do you have any other comments johnthetubaguy? Or are you close to a +2? :) | 09:35 |
| jianghuaw | But that's the way I know how pci pass-through can work. | 09:35 |
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| BobBall | jianghuaw: It's OK - the reference to the code has been added | 09:36 |
| jianghuaw | ah, yes. I see it. | 09:37 |
| jianghuaw | thanks. | 09:37 |
| johnthetubaguy | not sure I am close to a +2 yet, just getting my head around it all really | 09:37 |
| BobBall | fair enough - if we could request a re-review then that would be appreciated | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | so follow on question | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | "vgpu1:1" | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | what is the ":1" bit for? | 09:38 |
| BobBall | It's the number of instances you are requesting | 09:38 |
| BobBall | See the comment above https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/pci/request.py#L181-L185 | 09:38 |
| jianghuaw | yes. | 09:38 |
| BobBall | The pci_passthrough:alias scope in flavor extra_specs | 09:38 |
| BobBall | describes the flavor's pci requests, the key is | 09:38 |
| BobBall | 'pci_passthrough:alias' and the value has format | 09:38 |
| BobBall | 'alias_name_x:count, alias_name_y:count, ... '. The alias_name is | 09:38 |
| BobBall | defined in 'pci_alias' configurations. | 09:38 |
| johnthetubaguy | hmm, I se this bit now: https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/master/nova/pci/request.py#L134 | 09:39 |
| BobBall | It's almost always going to be 1 (IMO it would have been better if the original PCI spec had said that if the :<count> was missing it would default to 1) | 09:39 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so the problem here, is we are modifying a bit of code that has few docs, and few folks who understand it, so it takes time to agree things, sadly | 09:41 |
| johnthetubaguy | anyways, getting there | 09:41 |
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| BobBall | I just hope we can get there fast enough. Just 1 week to no priority feature freeze | 09:41 |
| BobBall | hence us pushing quite hard now :) | 09:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | oh wait, the alternatives sections... | 09:42 |
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| johnthetubaguy | did we decide to only expose one type per host | 09:42 |
| BobBall | Yes | 09:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | we should cover the alternative, in that alternatives section | 09:42 |
| johnthetubaguy | so we remember why we are not doing that | 09:43 |
| BobBall | Good point | 09:43 |
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| jianghuaw | sure, I will update it. | 09:43 |
| BobBall | Awesome | 09:43 |
| BobBall | Let's move on to the next spec | 09:43 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/277452/ - XenAPI independent hypervisor (fixing interaction layer between Nova + Hypervisor) | 09:43 |
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| BobBall | I've addressed your comments and removed the link to the new VDI store via streaming BP | 09:44 |
| BobBall | So I think the next step is if you could re-review it and let me know what your thoughts are? | 09:44 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, did you get my concerns on the functional tests | 09:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | I just worry if we add more code branches | 09:45 |
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| johnthetubaguy | if its just checks about not being able to do certain things, then that doesn't feel as bad, for sure | 09:45 |
| johnthetubaguy | I guess we will need to always stream config drive to the hypervisor? | 09:46 |
| johnthetubaguy | to take that approach | 09:46 |
| BobBall | I do understand the concerns, yes. I hoped that my comments would reassure you :) | 09:46 |
| BobBall | Yes | 09:46 |
| BobBall | No reason not to. It's a small enough drive to just create in-guest and then stream to the hypervisor in a 'supported' way | 09:46 |
| BobBall | Wrong use of ''s there... Supported + potentially isolated way | 09:47 |
| BobBall | :) | 09:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, thats all fine | 09:47 |
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| johnthetubaguy | oh, one thing comes to mind about partition_utils | 09:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | do you know what the load will be on Dom0? | 09:48 |
| BobBall | It should be very low | 09:48 |
| BobBall | We're not planning to do anything big in there iirc? | 09:48 |
| johnthetubaguy | I thought we created ext3 filesystems | 09:49 |
| BobBall | do you know the load of resizing the partition in domU? | 09:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | for ephemeral disks | 09:49 |
| BobBall | Yeah - but that's quite quick even for large disks | 09:49 |
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| johnthetubaguy | I got the impression the load isn't minimal | 09:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | ext4 would be quick, but ext3 has to do a lot more work, I believe | 09:49 |
| johnthetubaguy | I had forgot about that until now | 09:50 |
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| BobBall | What level of 'load' do you think would be concerning? | 09:50 |
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| johnthetubaguy | honestly, this is based more on my laptop fan getting excited when doing this inside a VM running XenServer | 09:50 |
| BobBall | And what load are you thinking of? bytes written to disk? CPU load? | 09:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | more CPU load, honestly | 09:50 |
| johnthetubaguy | disk load will kinda be the same, I am guessing | 09:51 |
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| BobBall | They will both be the same; but in a different place (i.e. dom0 vs the scheduled domU) | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | I suspect I am overthinking it, its just something thats worth checking | 09:51 |
| johnthetubaguy | right, but the compute node has throttled CPU, dom0 less so | 09:51 |
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| johnthetubaguy | it would be bad if other guests saw issues during a resize, etc | 09:52 |
| BobBall | Well - while it does have access to it's CPUs, it still has Dom0 has a fixed number of them | 09:52 |
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| johnthetubaguy | well, thats the problem | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | the CPUs in Dom0 are needed to keep the guests responsive | 09:52 |
| johnthetubaguy | not so for the compute node VM CPUs | 09:52 |
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| BobBall | Yes; so how many CPUs for how long would be worrying? | 09:53 |
| BobBall | i.e. if it had the potential to use up to 100% of one CPU (single threaded task, obviously) for 30 seconds, would that be worrying? | 09:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that would be a worry | 09:53 |
| BobBall | Clearly we can nice it if you like | 09:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | nice is probably a good iea | 09:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | idea | 09:53 |
| johnthetubaguy | its more, I would like to know the rough impact, on a good size VM | 09:54 |
| BobBall | OK; so I'll update the spec to say we will use nice to lower the priority of the intensive tasks such as mkfs.ext3 | 09:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | lets just double check if its terrible | 09:54 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that works | 09:54 |
| BobBall | Good size = how much disk? | 09:54 |
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| johnthetubaguy | hmm, 200GB or something like that? | 09:55 |
| BobBall | I will check. | 09:56 |
| BobBall | OK, next spec.. :) | 09:56 |
| BobBall | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304377/ - Xenerver compute driver support neutron security group | 09:56 |
| BobBall | Hopefully this is a very simple one :) | 09:56 |
| BobBall | The nutshell is that we want to do the same thing as libvirt to get security groups working in Neutron | 09:56 |
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| BobBall | libvirt sets up a Linux Bridge that it can apply iptables rules to | 09:56 |
| BobBall | and we want to do the same thing | 09:56 |
| huanxie | yes, main part is creating linux bridge | 09:56 |
| BobBall | It hasn't had a review yet, but if you remember this is the change that you reviewed a while ago and requested a simple spec to make it clear what we were doing | 09:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the linux bridge is created inside the compute VM? | 09:57 |
| BobBall | No - Dom0 | 09:57 |
| huanxie | No | 09:57 |
| huanxie | yes, Dom0 | 09:57 |
| johnthetubaguy | so you are running both linux bridge and ovs in Dom0? | 09:57 |
| huanxie | yes | 09:57 |
| BobBall | yes; which is also what libvirt does (ovs+bridge) | 09:58 |
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| BobBall | *but* clearly we only want to add a linux bridge if security groups are applied and you're using the appropriate firewall driver | 09:58 |
| BobBall | So if you don't select a firewall driver (or you use a different one, which I guess you do at RAX) then it doesn't affect you | 09:59 |
| BobBall | But it is clearly critical to getting neutron support as it's the only way we can get security groups with the upstreamed drivers | 09:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | so the spec doesn't mention about this being in a firewall driver | 09:59 |
| johnthetubaguy | and that it needs to be configured | 10:00 |
| johnthetubaguy | i.e. its optional | 10:00 |
| huanxie | I will update that | 10:00 |
| BobBall | Yes; we will make it clear; i.e. it will not affect Rackspace as I understand your deployment | 10:00 |
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| johnthetubaguy | thats not my main concern here, just trying to work out what the impact is | 10:01 |
| BobBall | Understood | 10:01 |
| BobBall | Finally https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274045/ - you said you would have a closer look at this spec :) | 10:01 |
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| johnthetubaguy | so just to be clear | 10:01 |
| johnthetubaguy | Nova is doing the security groups, and not neutron? | 10:02 |
| johnthetubaguy | or does Nova just put in place the bridge, that neutron detects and updates? | 10:02 |
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| huanxie | neutron will write security group rules | 10:02 |
| huanxie | but the rules are applied on linux bridge | 10:02 |
| BobBall | My understanding is that Neutron requires security groups to be enabled (e.g. some Neutron tempest tests depend on security groups) | 10:03 |
| huanxie | And the linux bridge should be created during booting VM, so we mainly do the creating linux bridge work | 10:03 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, its just some neutron things actually make nova add the rules | 10:03 |
| BobBall | Yes | 10:03 |
| johnthetubaguy | its a bit odd, so glad thats not the case here | 10:03 |
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| BobBall | Indeed; this is just 'standard' Nova; just a part that is expected to work :/ | 10:04 |
| huanxie | yes, neutron does most of the rules on the linux bridge, and nova create the linux bridge | 10:04 |
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| johnthetubaguy | OK, added comments on the spec, I think thats close | 10:05 |
| huanxie | thanks a lot | 10:05 |
| BobBall | So, finally https://review.openstack.org/#/c/274045/ - you said you would have a closer look at this spec :) | 10:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, and another 20/30 of them, but its not happened | 10:06 |
| BobBall | I can totally understand | 10:06 |
| johnthetubaguy | I think my existing comments still stand | 10:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | ah, wait, I am looking at the old version | 10:07 |
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| BobBall | :) | 10:07 |
| johnthetubaguy | so testing is the issue here | 10:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | if we start testing this by default | 10:08 |
| johnthetubaguy | the old system will break | 10:08 |
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| johnthetubaguy | maybe we keep the neutron CI on the new one, and the old CI on the old one? | 10:09 |
| BobBall | Yeah; can do | 10:09 |
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| BobBall | (Also, we could do the same for the isolated compute change) | 10:09 |
| jianghuaw | But please note: the purpose is to make this new store as default. | 10:10 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, I figured that one is harder, as it forces us towards multi-node | 10:10 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, we should probably get the CI running, before we switch over the default | 10:11 |
| BobBall | Isolated compute can be tested even if the compute is embedded - just set the flag | 10:11 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, but you don't stop people "doing things they shouldn't", which is probably quite useful | 10:12 |
| BobBall | I'm sure we can stop the host from attaching any disks to the guest; which is the main problem | 10:12 |
| johnthetubaguy | yeah, that could work | 10:12 |
| BobBall | OK. Well, I think we've reached time. | 10:12 |
| BobBall | So - is there anything else we should cover? | 10:13 |
| jianghuaw | #link: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242846/ | 10:13 |
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| BobBall | We'll work on updating those specs by tomorrow | 10:13 |
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| BobBall | and then, johnthetubaguy, do you mind if I nag you again on Friday, given how close we are to non-priority feature freeze? | 10:14 |
| huanxie | Hi, I hope this patchset can be reviewed again https://review.openstack.org/#/c/213112/ | 10:14 |
| johnthetubaguy | totally keep bugging me | 10:14 |
| jianghuaw | John, if you have time could you help to re-review this patch set? | 10:14 |
| jianghuaw | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/242846/ | 10:14 |
| BobBall | jianghuaw: Could we cover that bug next time? | 10:14 |
| jianghuaw | sure. | 10:14 |
| jianghuaw | thank. | 10:14 |
| jianghuaw | thanks. | 10:14 |
| BobBall | huanxie: Same; I think we should focus on BPs | 10:14 |
| huanxie | sure, thanks | 10:15 |
| BobBall | The deadline for non-priority blueprints is in 1 week's time, so if we can grab any of johnthetubaguy's time I'd personally rather it was looking at specs than those bug fixes - which we have more time for | 10:15 |
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| johnthetubaguy | yeah, specs should be the focus for the moment | 10:15 |
| jianghuaw | Bob: Got it. Thanks. | 10:16 |
| BobBall | OK - then let's close the meeting there. | 10:16 |
| BobBall | Thanks for the feedback johnthetubaguy! | 10:16 |
| BobBall | #endmeeting | 10:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 10:16 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 10:16:22 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 10:16 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2016/xenapi.2016-05-25-09.30.html | 10:16 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2016/xenapi.2016-05-25-09.30.txt | 10:16 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/xenapi/2016/xenapi.2016-05-25-09.30.log.html | 10:16 |
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| dims | #openstack-meeting requirements | 12:00 |
| dims | #startmeeting requirements | 12:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 12:00:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is dims. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 12:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 12:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'requirements' | 12:00 |
| coolsvap | Hello | 12:00 |
| number80 | o/ | 12:00 |
| tonyb | o/ | 12:00 |
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| coreycb | o/ | 12:01 |
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| prometheanfire | ugh | 12:01 |
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| dims | #topic - Any controversies in the Queue? | 12:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "- Any controversies in the Queue? (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:02 | |
| dims | #link - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:%255E.*requirements.*+branch:master,n,z | 12:02 |
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| * tonyb has one that's liberty .... | 12:03 | |
| tonyb | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317942/ | 12:03 |
| tonyb | Bump cliff to 2.0.0 | 12:03 |
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| prometheanfire | cliff? | 12:03 |
| number80 | that's huge for liberty, I agree ... | 12:03 |
| coolsvap | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317942/ | 12:04 |
| prometheanfire | ya | 12:04 |
| tonyb | I've dropped my feedback on the review and invited jd__ to this meetiing to help work out how to progress this | 12:04 |
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| dims | jd__ : around? | 12:04 |
| tonyb | The actual change (using cliff 2.0.0) is ok, but it's indicative of a bigger question about how managed and non-managed projects work together | 12:05 |
| dims | tonyb : we should just get rid of telemetry project from g-r in liberty just like master | 12:05 |
| dims | tonyb : my patience has worn out | 12:05 |
| tonyb | dims: that wont help ... | 12:05 |
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| dims | tonyb : help who? it certainly does not stop us from landing updates to requirements liberty branch | 12:06 |
| tonyb | dims: it's happening because ceilometer (liberty) pulls in a bunch of things form master that meet the g-r BUT are not in u-c | 12:06 |
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| tonyb | IIUC | 12:06 |
| dims | tonyb : it's their headache, not ours | 12:06 |
| tonyb | hmmm expect there isn't a way to opt out of constarints in dsvm jobs | 12:07 |
| dims | tonyb : they should figure out how to live in the infrastructure jobs and not be constrained | 12:07 |
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| dims | tonyb : yep. not our problem | 12:07 |
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| dims | tonyb : -2 | 12:08 |
| prometheanfire | if they don't use UC, then they don't get an opinion | 12:08 |
| dims | prometheanfire : yep | 12:08 |
| number80 | *nods* | 12:09 |
| dims | Bunch of oslo libs landed yesterday and the sniff tests looks good - https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:dims/test/constraints | 12:09 |
| toabctl | hi | 12:09 |
| dims | toabctl : hi | 12:10 |
| coolsvap | I think we should think about better sync of the proposal bot patches and ones submitted by dhellmann | 12:10 |
| tonyb | dims: have any of the u-c bumps landed? | 12:10 |
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| prometheanfire | coolsvap: ya, I think they should be botted, not under his name | 12:10 |
| dims | tonyb : nope. i hold them off so we could run sniff tests | 12:10 |
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| dims | dhellmann : around? | 12:10 |
| coolsvap | prometheanfire, not really that | 12:10 |
| prometheanfire | it'd help me note them for what they are | 12:10 |
| coolsvap | its mostly duplicate effort | 12:11 |
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| * coolsvap has no problem with name | 12:11 | |
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| prometheanfire | you mean delay a day? | 12:11 |
| dims | coolsvap : can you take an action to talk to dhellmann later? | 12:11 |
| coolsvap | dims sure | 12:11 |
| dims | thanks coolsvap | 12:11 |
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| dims | #topic Tasks from etherpad | 12:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Tasks from etherpad (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:12 | |
| dims | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/requirements-tasks | 12:12 |
| coolsvap | #action coolsvap to talk to dhellmann about the u-c release patches | 12:12 |
| dims | has anyone picked up any work from etherpad list of things to do? | 12:12 |
| dims | #action coolsvap to talk to dhellmann about the u-c release patches | 12:12 |
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| dims | coolsvap : was not sure if the bot would pick up your #action, so i triggered it too | 12:13 |
| coolsvap | dims, np | 12:13 |
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| coolsvap | dims, i have done one very very very small task | 12:14 |
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| * coolsvap still figuring out where to start | 12:14 | |
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| dims | coolsvap : ack | 12:14 |
| tonyb | coolsvap: I think the 3.9 was a good thing (apart from reviews) | 12:15 |
| dims | i guess we did take a stab at cleaning up things from g-r | 12:15 |
| tonyb | dims: Yeah a reaonably successful stab I think:) | 12:15 |
| dims | coolsvap : go for it - " verifies that the versions listed are available for download from PyPi " | 12:15 |
| dims | tonyb :) | 12:16 |
| coolsvap | dims, sure i can start with that effort this week | 12:16 |
| tonyb | dims: I think that's done with your py27-with-contstraint job isn't it? | 12:16 |
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| dims | tonyb : don't know if what i have in there is enough | 12:17 |
| dims | coolsvap : tonyb : we should add a py34-with-constraints too | 12:17 |
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| dims | that should be an easy one | 12:18 |
| tonyb | dims: ok. Yeah that's a good point | 12:18 |
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| dims | #topic pyldap - plans to converge on one ldap client | 12:18 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pyldap - plans to converge on one ldap client (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:18 | |
| dims | #link http://markmail.org/message/7pktmarvrtaos72r | 12:18 |
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| dims | Any of the packagers have concerns? | 12:19 |
| prometheanfire | sec | 12:19 |
| prometheanfire | reading | 12:19 |
| prometheanfire | no concerns, I thought this was somewhat discussed in the last couple of ldap related patches to -requirements already | 12:20 |
| dirk | dims: sort of | 12:20 |
| dims | prometheanfire : ack, just making sure folks read that thread if anything is lingering :) | 12:20 |
| dims | dirk : you have the floor | 12:20 |
| dirk | dims: we have quite some packages that require python-ldap outside openstack and that need to be ported somehow | 12:20 |
| dirk | so its not an easy task | 12:20 |
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| coreycb | dims, hi, I brought that up on the ml | 12:21 |
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| prometheanfire | ah, here we have both | 12:21 |
| dirk | dims: of course openstack shouldn't be slowed down by non-openstack projects, so its more a downstream issue to take care of | 12:21 |
| dims | dirk : agree | 12:21 |
| dirk | just saying that those are the more interuptive things that got merged fairly quickly (to my surprise) | 12:21 |
| number80 | well, if it is backward compatible, then no problem to have it in newton (w/ my RDO hat) | 12:22 |
| dirk | number80: right. I don't know enough about it to be sure of that | 12:22 |
| dirk | the readme says that "as much as possible backwards compatible" | 12:22 |
| dirk | which could mean anything | 12:22 |
| dims | dirk : until m1 we can be a bit loose as folks are experimenting esp python3 | 12:22 |
| tonyb | Aren;t they in different namespaces so apart from the issue ubuntu has with main/universe why can't you just have both? | 12:23 |
| dims | ok so action item for all of you concerned to continue on coreycb 's ML thread :) | 12:23 |
| toabctl | tonyb, python-ldap and pyldap use the same namespace iirc | 12:23 |
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| tonyb | toabctl: Oh. | 12:23 |
| dirk | tonyb: no, they install into the same place | 12:24 |
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| dirk | dims: agreed | 12:24 |
| toabctl | tonyb, pyldap is a fork of python-ldap with py3 support | 12:24 |
| coreycb | pyldap is a it's a drop in replacement I believe for python-ldap | 12:24 |
| coreycb | w/ py3 support | 12:24 |
| prometheanfire | RDEPEND+=" !dev-python/pyldap" | 12:25 |
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| prometheanfire | RDEPEND+=" !dev-python/python-ldap" | 12:25 |
| prometheanfire | we disallow their installation with eachother | 12:25 |
| dims | sorry network drop | 12:25 |
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| prometheanfire | is how we 'fix' it, so something to keep in mind maybe? | 12:25 |
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| number80 | we can't ship both at the same time, and drop-in replacement w/o strong compatibility guarantees mean it could break other stuff | 12:25 |
| dirk | number80: right | 12:26 |
| dirk | number80: I guess the intention of the project is to be backwards compatible, but as you know, the devil is in the details | 12:26 |
| number80 | especially w/ ldap | 12:26 |
| coreycb | and beyond python-ldap/pyldap, we have ldap3 vs pyldap. it'd be nice to just converge on one across projects. | 12:26 |
| coreycb | nice for me at least :) | 12:26 |
| dirk | yep | 12:27 |
| number80 | I agree that we have to converge and push for a py3 compatible requirement for ldap | 12:27 |
| dims | hello | 12:27 |
| dims | sorry network dropped | 12:27 |
| dims | number80 : ++ | 12:27 |
| dims | #topic Go | 12:27 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Go (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:27 | |
| dims | #link http://markmail.org/message/fsvoxpc7p3jygr6n | 12:28 |
| prometheanfire | coreycb: nice for packagers too tbh | 12:28 |
| coreycb | prometheanfire, yeah that's my perspective, I do packaging | 12:28 |
| prometheanfire | ah | 12:28 |
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| prometheanfire | as for go, we (gentoo) shouldn't have a problem there either | 12:28 |
| dims | If "Go" were allowed, what would we have to do for requirements? | 12:28 |
| number80 | My feedback about Go is that we need to be careful w/ deps, most go libraries are poorly maintained and have no proper versioning | 12:29 |
| dims | what versions of "Go" do folks have? | 12:29 |
| prometheanfire | as for reqs... the way I understand go's dep model means we are in for a ride | 12:29 |
| dims | number80 : ack | 12:29 |
| prometheanfire | number80++ | 12:29 |
| prometheanfire | gentoo - Available versions: 1.6-r2(0/1.6) 1.6.1(0/1.6.1) ~1.6.2(0/1.6.2) **9999(0/9999) {gccgo} | 12:29 |
| dirk | dims: good question, the go library "packaging" is interesting | 12:29 |
| number80 | dims: we can push fairly recent versions in CentOS, but lemme check in RHEL | 12:29 |
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| dirk | dims: we have 1.6.1 on the SUSE side of the universe | 12:30 |
| number80 | RHEL 7.3 will have 1.6.2 | 12:30 |
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| number80 | consensus seems to build around 1.6.x | 12:30 |
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| dims | does anyone have experience with NOT doing vendoring? (i.e. not keeping local copies of libs used in the repos themselves) | 12:31 |
| dims | docker, kubernetes all have copies of the libraries they use | 12:32 |
| number80 | dims: we do but it's hard | 12:32 |
| * dhellmann shows up late and reads scrollback | 12:32 | |
| number80 | basically, we ship go libraries as source code | 12:32 |
| tonyb | dims: I thought vendoring was the go way | 12:32 |
| dims | tonyb : i believe there are alternatives | 12:33 |
| prometheanfire | no, that's the way go works as far as I know | 12:33 |
| prometheanfire | we (gentoo) do seem to have some unvendoring done though | 12:33 |
| dhellmann | dims : the infra team is researching tools that let golang projects manage deps https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/golang-infra-issues-to-solve | 12:33 |
| tonyb | #linnk https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/golang-infra-issues-to-solve | 12:33 |
| dhellmann | most of them let you point to a specific sha or version or something like that of an upstream dependency | 12:33 |
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| jroll | well, godep and friends don't force you to check in the vendored code itself, rather a list of deps with shas (like doug said) | 12:34 |
| jroll | they pull code into a vendor dir at build time, but it's assumed you would ignore that in git | 12:34 |
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| dhellmann | ok, that's good, that wasn't actually clear to me from reading | 12:34 |
| number80 | another go packaging issue => go imports relies on some weird url-based invocations, and many go devs uses url redirector | 12:34 |
| dims | tonyb dhellmann : thanks for the pointers | 12:34 |
| number80 | sometimes, we get the same libraries packaged twice under different names | 12:35 |
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| dims | number80 : interesting | 12:35 |
| number80 | we should emphasize that we use the same import for the same library everywhere | 12:36 |
| dims | so, do we sign up to maintain a list of SHA(s)? :) | 12:36 |
| * tonyb needs to read about go and run-time linking ... if that's a thing | 12:36 | |
| number80 | wfm, until we find a better way to support it | 12:36 |
| jroll | dhellmann: urgh, maybe I read wrong :( godep themselves vendor their libs https://github.com/tools/godep/tree/master/Godeps/_workspace | 12:36 |
| dims | import statements and SHA(s) i guess | 12:36 |
| * jroll totally read that wrong | 12:36 | |
| dhellmann | jroll : do what I say, not what I do? ;-) | 12:36 |
| jroll | :) | 12:37 |
| dims | dhellmann : LOL | 12:37 |
| dhellmann | dims : I'm not sure a list of global requirements is necessary for go projects | 12:37 |
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| dhellmann | they all basically have their own in-tree constraint list, and build a static binary | 12:37 |
| dhellmann | someone needs to vet those dependencies for license compatibility, but we don't need a global list for that | 12:38 |
| tonyb | It'll be a majpr headache for infra if they endup needing to "mirror" everything in use in any project :( | 12:38 |
| prometheanfire | huh, ya, that's true | 12:38 |
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| dims | dhellmann : less work the better :) | 12:38 |
| dhellmann | yeah, infra is addressing the build-related issues | 12:38 |
| dims | tonyb : y, i remember mordred talking about mirroring specific SHA(s) we use | 12:38 |
| prometheanfire | packaging wise it'll still be a pain though | 12:39 |
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| number80 | oh yeah ... | 12:39 |
| dims | just to reduce relying in github etc outside our control | 12:39 |
| dhellmann | dims : the "technology divergence" aspect will be harder to control, too, but *shrug* | 12:39 |
| dims | ok. i threw this is so folks start thinking :) if at all we end up picking up Go | 12:40 |
| dims | #topic Open Discussion | 12:40 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: requirements)" | 12:40 | |
| prometheanfire | can I go back to sleep? | 12:40 |
| dims | may i have volunteers to run the next few meetings? | 12:40 |
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| coolsvap | dhellmann, hi i had the action item but since we have time | 12:40 |
| dhellmann | coolsvap : sure, what's up? | 12:41 |
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| coolsvap | regarding the u-c new-release change requests | 12:41 |
| * dims looks at dirk tonyb coolsvap and others | 12:41 | |
| coolsvap | dims i can help | 12:41 |
| * tonyb looks back ;P | 12:41 | |
| coolsvap | dhellmann, i think its a duplicate effort | 12:42 |
| dhellmann | ok, those patches are coming for a couple of reasons | 12:42 |
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| dims | tonyb : you are on for next week, coolsvap the one after that. ok? | 12:42 |
| prometheanfire | I'll be out next week at least | 12:42 |
| dhellmann | (1) we want to test that each new lib works in isolation, so if we see a failure in the tests we know which lib caused it | 12:42 |
| tonyb | dims: sure. | 12:42 |
| jroll | dhellmann: going back, looks like glide can do what we want | 12:42 |
| dhellmann | (2) we do not want to wait 24 hrs for the bot to introduce the new lib into the dev environments | 12:42 |
| dims | prometheanfire : cool. we can do 2 weeks at a time :) | 12:42 |
| coolsvap | dims ack | 12:42 |
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| dhellmann | as constraint updates for existing dependencies, they can be approved by a single reviewer under our existing policy | 12:43 |
| prometheanfire | lol | 12:43 |
| dhellmann | jroll : cool. you might want to talk to the infra folks about the concerns so that input goes into picking a tool | 12:43 |
| dims | dhellmann : i have been tending to wait for the morning sniff tests results (https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+topic:dims/test/constraints) | 12:43 |
| dims | dhellmann : so do we +2A the individual ones or the bulk one? | 12:44 |
| dims | or both | 12:44 |
| jroll | dhellmann: sure | 12:44 |
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| dhellmann | dims : these automatically proposed changes replace the ones we asked release liaisons to submit by hand, and are meant to be processed the same way | 12:44 |
| notmorgan | o/ | 12:45 |
| dims | dhellmann : so if you are ok with abandoning the individual ones then we are good | 12:45 |
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| notmorgan | just woke up, i was pinged in the other channel? | 12:45 |
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| dims | hey notmorgan we talked a bit about the pyldap a bit | 12:45 |
| dhellmann | dims : if we're just going to abandon them, I can change the script to stop submitting them. but then we need another way to ensure that new releases go into the dev environment asap | 12:45 |
| notmorgan | anything i need to know? | 12:45 |
| tonyb | notmorgan: you're fixing everything :) | 12:46 |
| coolsvap | dhellmann, thats what i also wanted to highlight, abandoning is a different thing | 12:46 |
| notmorgan | tonyb: oh. uh... | 12:46 |
| dims | notmorgan : action item to follow up on ML :) | 12:46 |
| dhellmann | coolsvap : yeah, I don't want them to be abandoned, I want them to be approved :-) | 12:46 |
| coolsvap | we need a sync between your patches and bot | 12:46 |
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| dhellmann | coolsvap : I don't understand | 12:47 |
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| tonyb | or run the bot less often | 12:47 |
| coolsvap | or we just allow the bot to submit individual patches | 12:47 |
| dhellmann | what problem are we trying to solve? | 12:47 |
| coolsvap | dhellmann, we have 2 set of patches submitted | 12:47 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: I *think* the thing is that take oslo as an exmaple | 12:47 |
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| prometheanfire | dims: I think it's having the same thing submitted twice | 12:47 |
| dhellmann | ideally the individual patches would all be approved before the bot runs. | 12:47 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: if we land a few (any?) of yhe new-rlease changes the bot's change will fail to merge | 12:48 |
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| dhellmann | is that's not realistic, we might as well wait for the bot | 12:48 |
| coolsvap | prometheanfire, yes | 12:48 |
| dhellmann | tonyb : ok, now I get that there are merge conflicts | 12:48 |
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| notmorgan | dims: ok i'm going back to sleep then. | 12:48 |
| coolsvap | dhellmann, the individual patches and bot patch confligts | 12:48 |
| dhellmann | ok, I'll change the script to not submit the individual patches and we'll just rely on the bot to update things | 12:48 |
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| dims | coolsvap : maybe the bot checks what was filed and throws a "Depends-On" those in addition to things that were not filed? | 12:49 |
| tonyb | So I *like* the new-release changes | 12:49 |
| dims | dhellmann : currently the bot proposes an update as it sees versions in pypi, it does not check what reviews are currently filed under "new-release" topic | 12:49 |
| dhellmann | yeah, I don't think we need to make the bot a lot smarter | 12:49 |
| dims | dhellmann : so if we make sure that the bot proposed update does not duplicate the ones in progress, that would work | 12:49 |
| coolsvap | dims, can be done this way | 12:49 |
| tonyb | they have meta-data which makes the review much easier than the bot generated one IMO | 12:49 |
| coolsvap | what i feel is checking individual changes is good | 12:50 |
| coolsvap | it helps isolate issue to single package update | 12:50 |
| dims | coolsvap : maybe the bot checks what was filed and throws a "Depends-On" those in addition to things that were not filed? | 12:50 |
| dims | dhellmann : currently the bot proposes an update as it sees versions in pypi, it does not check what reviews are currently filed under "new-release" topic | 12:50 |
| dims | dhellmann : so if we make sure that the bot proposed update does not duplicate the ones in progress, that would work | 12:50 |
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| coolsvap | dims, if the bot can propose individual changes | 12:50 |
| coolsvap | dhellmann, ^^ | 12:51 |
| prometheanfire | that's what I'd like to see as well, I like the new way | 12:51 |
| dhellmann | if we're only doing bulk releases like this early in the week, how many bot updates are actually in conflict? | 12:51 |
| dhellmann | we can't have the bot propose individual changes, that doesn't make sense. It's updating everything all at once. Some updates may depend on others. | 12:51 |
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| tonyb | and if it does conflict wont it just regenerate in 24hours? | 12:51 |
| dhellmann | it will | 12:52 |
| tonyb | right so I think that we shoudl stick with what we have now | 12:52 |
| dims | i am ok with what we have now | 12:52 |
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| tonyb | focus on getting the new-rleases changes in *early* and see if the bot thing causes major pain | 12:52 |
| tonyb | the new-release stuff is pretty new and IMO helpful | 12:53 |
| coolsvap | so we approve the individual patches and let bot regenerate changes in 24 hrs | 12:53 |
| tonyb | that's just my $0.02 | 12:53 |
| tonyb | coolsvap: that's my suggestion | 12:53 |
| prometheanfire | we could get into a loop where the bot's always behind though | 12:53 |
| dims | coolsvap : i think we should wait for sniff tests then let individual ones in and merge the bot update last in the day | 12:54 |
| tonyb | prometheanfire: if that happens we can manually sync up | 12:54 |
| dhellmann | we won't, though, because we don't do releases on thurs/fri so we have several opportunities for a monday bot update to be good | 12:54 |
| dims | (before the next regeneration) | 12:54 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: ... and merged :) | 12:54 |
| dhellmann | and I'm trying not to do bulk releases like oslo too late in the week too often | 12:54 |
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| dims | ++ dhellmann | 12:54 |
| coolsvap | dims, dhellmann tonyb i am fine with testing this strategy | 12:54 |
| prometheanfire | ya, oslo... | 12:54 |
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| dhellmann | good, let's give it a couple of weeks and then see how it goes? | 12:55 |
| dhellmann | I have to run, sorry, local interruption | 12:55 |
| tonyb | dhellmann: o/ | 12:55 |
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| prometheanfire | ya, meeting is almost over | 12:55 |
| dims | anything else? we can talk over on our channel :) | 12:56 |
| dims | thanks everyone | 12:56 |
| dims | #endmeeting | 12:56 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 12:56 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 12:56:11 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 12:56 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2016/requirements.2016-05-25-12.00.html | 12:56 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2016/requirements.2016-05-25-12.00.txt | 12:56 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/requirements/2016/requirements.2016-05-25-12.00.log.html | 12:56 |
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| number80 | thank you dims for ensuring that we hold regular meetings :) | 12:56 |
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| dims | number80 : yw :) | 12:57 |
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| joehuang | hello | 13:00 |
| zhiyuan_cai | hi joe | 13:00 |
| joehuang | hi, zhiyuan | 13:00 |
| Yipei | hi, all | 13:00 |
| joehuang | hi, how about your master thesis defence | 13:01 |
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| Yipei | i passed it | 13:02 |
| joehuang | congratualtion | 13:02 |
| Yipei | thanks | 13:02 |
| joehuang | #startmeeting tricircle | 13:02 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 13:02:32 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is joehuang. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 13:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 13:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'tricircle' | 13:02 |
| joehuang | #topic rollcall | 13:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rollcall (Meeting topic: tricircle)" | 13:03 | |
| joehuang | #info joehuang | 13:03 |
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| zhiyuan_cai | #info zhiyuan | 13:03 |
| Yipei | #info Yipei | 13:03 |
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| joehuang | L2 networking work group has a meeting today | 13:04 |
| joehuang | good to see the progress in this feature | 13:05 |
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| joehuang | and yipei, how about the progress in pod binding | 13:06 |
| Yipei | sorry about my progress, i have been busy with my graduation last week. it will end on next Monday i will speed up next week | 13:06 |
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| Yipei | and a new master student will join in in June | 13:07 |
| joehuang | ok, please update the spec when you are available | 13:07 |
| joehuang | good news | 13:07 |
| Yipei | ok, i will | 13:08 |
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| joehuang | just talked with zhiyuan this afternoon, we also need to consider the rolling upgrade impact on the db access and rpc message | 13:09 |
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| Yipei | what do you mean rolling upgrade? | 13:09 |
| joehuang | that means the components and db may be not working in the same version during upgrade period | 13:10 |
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| AshNFF | hi , I have problem with my Mitaka compute node from nova log I get this error : Instance failed network setup after 1 attempt(s) | 13:11 |
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| joehuang | for example, some Nova-APIGW upgraded to Newton release, but some Nova-APIGW are still working in Mitaka release, and DB has been upgrade to Newton | 13:11 |
| lxq_ | sorry for late | 13:12 |
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| joehuang | so these components should be able to work in mixed version environment. | 13:12 |
| AshNFF | from the controller nova log Failed to bind port 4215e6bb-b0fa-492c-a479-f4f7f20700df on host nu-vrs1 for vnic_type normal using segments [{'segmentation_id': 62, 'physical_network': None, 'id': u'b6f9bf32-54b8-4d25-bd27-37151024048d', 'network_type': u'vxlan'}] | 13:12 |
| joehuang | welcome lxq | 13:12 |
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| Yipei | i see | 13:12 |
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| zhiyuan_cai | we can investigate versionedobject library | 13:13 |
| Yipei | how to do that? | 13:13 |
| zhiyuan_cai | it deals with multi-version issue of data models | 13:13 |
| joehuang | And XJOB and Nova-APIGW may also working with different version during upgrade period | 13:13 |
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| joehuang | that means RPC also need to take care of version compatibility | 13:14 |
| joehuang | ok, zhiyuan, is there any OSLO lib for versionedobject? | 13:14 |
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| joehuang | to AshNFF, sorry, we are in Tricircle meeting | 13:15 |
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| zhiyuan_cai | yes | 13:15 |
| AshNFF | sorry thanks joehuang | 13:15 |
| zhiyuan_cai | https://github.com/openstack/oslo.versionedobjects | 13:15 |
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| joehuang | ok, to zhiyuan, thanks for the link, so let's add one item in todo list, to support tricircle being able to do rolling upgrade | 13:17 |
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| joehuang | #action add one item in todo list, to make tricircle being able to do rolling upgrade | 13:18 |
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| joehuang | #info including versionedobject for DB access and versionedRPC for rpc message | 13:18 |
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| zhiyuan_cai | added | 13:20 |
| joehuang | to lxq how about the volumetype patch? | 13:20 |
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| joehuang | great | 13:21 |
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| lxq_ | i will run the path in our enviroment before i submmit | 13:22 |
| lxq_ | today i learn some konowledge about running | 13:22 |
| lxq_ | like scree tool and others | 13:22 |
| joehuang | good, if you have any question, feel free to ask in #openstack-tricircle | 13:23 |
| lxq_ | sorry, it is screen tool | 13:23 |
| lxq_ | it is my first time to use the tool, it is confued me at begging | 13:23 |
| joehuang | if you have workable devstack, you can just replace the code of tricircle, and re-run the cinder-apigw | 13:24 |
| lxq_ | ok. i just konw it.:) | 13:24 |
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| joehuang | and you can use curl just like that in tricircle github readme to test cinder-apigw | 13:25 |
| lxq_ | understand! | 13:25 |
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| zhiyuan_cai | for cinder-apigw, using CLI to test is also fine | 13:26 |
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| lxq_ | ok. :) | 13:26 |
| joehuang | to zhiyuan I think so | 13:26 |
| joehuang | yes, cinder volume CRUD is tested by cinder-client | 13:27 |
| lxq_ | yes. | 13:27 |
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| lxq_ | i can run the command like cinder type-list | 13:27 |
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| joehuang_123 | sorry, my previous connection was lost | 13:31 |
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| joehuang_123 | in pycharm, you can run test cases, and see the code coverage | 13:31 |
| joehuang_123 | can you see my message | 13:33 |
| lxq_ | yes | 13:33 |
| lxq_ | i can | 13:33 |
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| joehuang_123 | in pycharm, you can run test cases, and check the code coverage, to see which branch is not coverd | 13:33 |
| joehuang_123 | any topics | 13:34 |
| joehuang_123 | \nick joehuang | 13:34 |
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| joehuang | any other topics? | 13:35 |
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| Yipei | no for me | 13:35 |
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| zhiyuan_cai | no | 13:35 |
| lxq_ | not any more | 13:35 |
| joehuang | ok, let's conclude the meeting early today | 13:35 |
| joehuang | have a good day | 13:35 |
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| joehuang | #endmeeting | 13:36 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 13:36 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 13:36:03 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 13:36 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2016/tricircle.2016-05-25-13.02.html | 13:36 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2016/tricircle.2016-05-25-13.02.txt | 13:36 |
| zhiyuan_cai | bye | 13:36 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tricircle/2016/tricircle.2016-05-25-13.02.log.html | 13:36 |
| lxq_ | good night | 13:36 |
| joehuang | bye | 13:36 |
| Yipei | bye | 13:36 |
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| Zara | anyone about for the storyboard meeting? | 15:00 |
| SotK | o/ | 15:00 |
| Zara | \o/ | 15:00 |
| Zara | #startmeeting storyboard | 15:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 15:00:31 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is Zara. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'storyboard' | 15:00 |
| Zara | #topic announcements | 15:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "announcements (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:00 | |
| Zara | No announcements on agenda; have I missed anything? | 15:00 |
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| * Zara assumes not | 15:01 | |
| Zara | #topic urgent items | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "urgent items (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:01 | |
| Zara | again, nothing listed | 15:01 |
| Zara | anything urgent? | 15:01 |
| Zara | speak fast if so | 15:01 |
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| Zara | #topic In Progress Work | 15:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "In Progress Work (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:01 | |
| Zara | okay, I forgot to update these from last week | 15:01 |
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| Zara | complex priorities are listed on the agenda; afaik those are parked for now | 15:02 |
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| Zara | since it requires subscription to worklists, and that's a big chunk of work that we don't yet have a timeline for | 15:02 |
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| Zara | but project teams are also listed! | 15:03 |
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| Zara | Over to you, SotK! | 15:03 |
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| SotK | I sent patches for adding a UI to manage teams | 15:03 |
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| Zara | \o/ | 15:03 |
| SotK | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack-infra/storyboard-webclient+branch:master+topic:teams | 15:03 |
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| SotK | I've not looked at being able ot use teams in permissions anywhere yet though | 15:04 |
| Zara | still, one thing at a time! :D | 15:04 |
| Zara | these look cool, I hope to finish reviewing by the end of the week | 15:04 |
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| SotK | \o/ | 15:05 |
| Zara | thank you for investigating and making the ui! | 15:05 |
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| Zara | so, the agenda lists operator docs, but I haven't done any further work on those since we all started to focus on setting up a dev instance | 15:06 |
| Zara | oh hm, the dev instance should've been an announcement! | 15:06 |
| Zara | gah mid-week meetings | 15:06 |
| Zara | #info StoryBoard has a dev instance! It's at https://storyboard-dev.openstack.org/#!/dashboard/stories | 15:06 |
| Zara | thanks to fungi, nibalizer, anteaya and everyone else in the infra team who helped set this up :) | 15:07 |
| SotK | indeed, thanks for the help! | 15:07 |
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| fungi | any time | 15:08 |
| Zara | a big motivation for me in wanting to set up operator docs was so that people could quickly get to a 'playground' instance when trying out storyboard for the first time (or trying out new features), so the dev instance should help with that. and hopefully I can come back to the operator docs... | 15:08 |
| fungi | i have the replacement storyboard.o.o server built. after the meeting i'll get you ip addresses to check its interface out before i change dns | 15:08 |
| Zara | \o/ | 15:08 |
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| Zara | thank you | 15:08 |
| * nibalizer dances | 15:09 | |
| SotK | woo, thanks for that too | 15:09 |
| krotscheck | \o/ | 15:09 |
| fungi | so it'll be on a similar ubuntu release to teh dev server once that's complete | 15:09 |
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| Zara | yaaay | 15:09 |
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| Zara | that should have also been an announcement... I'm winning at announcements today... | 15:09 |
| Zara | #info StoryBoard is very nearly upgraded! | 15:10 |
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| Zara | #info Zara has been working on gerrit integration | 15:10 |
| Zara | well I've not got much done and I don't know where the time has gone | 15:11 |
| Zara | pedroalvarez left some review comments, and I got as far as reading them, but not implementing them | 15:11 |
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| Zara | so hmmm | 15:11 |
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| Zara | I *did* manage to just break email for everyone in my workplace with a combination of my gerrit wip script and email notifications | 15:12 |
| Zara | so, erm, watch out for that | 15:12 |
| Zara | if you tell storyboard to send out 20000 emails, it will most definitely send them | 15:12 |
| Zara | oh! the dev server is on the agenda! | 15:12 |
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| Zara | anyone have anything to add on that? | 15:12 |
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| SotK | I've not | 15:13 |
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| Zara | #info sotk is silent, like a mysterious hawk or something idk i didn't sleep | 15:14 |
| Zara | #undo | 15:14 |
| openstack | Removing item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Info object at 0xa6e5810> | 15:14 |
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| Zara | the last thing I have listed is betherly's tutorial | 15:14 |
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| Zara | but I think she's on holiday today | 15:14 |
| Zara | so! | 15:14 |
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| Zara | #topic Product WG cross project dashboard | 15:14 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Product WG cross project dashboard (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:15 | |
| Zara | so that's listed as a topic but that might be leftover from last week | 15:15 |
| Zara | does anyone have anything they want to say about this? | 15:15 |
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| Zara | looks like nobody does | 15:16 |
| Zara | I'm guessing people are still putting together requirements etc, then | 15:16 |
| Zara | #topic Open Discussion | 15:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: storyboard)" | 15:16 | |
| Zara | Discuss! | 15:16 |
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| Zara | So something that just came up in the storyboard channel-- security... how do we stop someone making a script that updates storyboard in a way to cause people email spam? | 15:17 |
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| Zara | and anything else along those lines, I guess. I think we should give it some thought since a lot of features are at the 'it works' stage but could be exploited, and I juuuust saw a spammer in #openstack-infra, so hey | 15:19 |
| SotK | disable login for the offending account (assuming the enable_login column in the users table does what it suggests | 15:19 |
| ttx | o/ | 15:20 |
| ityaptin | o/ | 15:20 |
| ttx | bit late, network issues | 15:20 |
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| Zara | hi! | 15:20 |
| Zara | sotk: okay, so that's the reactive side... anything preventative anyone can think of? | 15:20 |
| SotK | hi! | 15:20 |
| Zara | otherwise I'll leave it for people to mull over and come back to later | 15:21 |
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| ttx | I can give an update on the spec | 15:21 |
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| Zara | cool, please do! :) | 15:21 |
| ttx | I updated the spec so that it's actually reviewable. The main idea is that we need some kind of roadmap to transition, which involves getting in touch with key users and getting them on-board | 15:22 |
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| ttx | and probably conservatively define a few blockers | 15:22 |
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| ttx | The trick is the balance - you don't want a bottomless pit of requests otherwise migratuon won't ever happen | 15:23 |
| ttx | but you still want to know which are the main pain points before people are happy to migrate | 15:23 |
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| ttx | It's a tricky job and it needs someone sitting between the two groups (storyboard devs / target powerusers) to facilitate | 15:24 |
| ttx | anteaya volunteered to drive that | 15:24 |
| Zara | brilliant | 15:24 |
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| SotK | excellent! | 15:24 |
| * SotK would thank anteaya here but she isn't in channel | 15:24 | |
| ttx | None of the absolute options ("migrate now" and "migrate when everyone is happy") is actually doable | 15:24 |
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| ttx | so we need to identify a finite and conservative list of blockers and migrate when covered | 15:25 |
| Zara | agreed. | 15:26 |
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| ttx | blockers could be = [ 'acls_for_security_bugs' ] | 15:26 |
| ttx | we know we have that in the list already | 15:26 |
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| Zara | I can help keep an eye out for any woolly wording, though I think between everyone that'll be covered already :) | 15:26 |
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| anteaya | SotK: sorry I wasn't in channel earlier | 15:28 |
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| ttx | yeah, I think we all agree some amount of blockers need to be defined, and we need to engage with main users preventively | 15:28 |
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| ttx | the trick is to keep it reasonable and short-term | 15:28 |
| SotK | anteaya: no worries, thanks for volunteering :) | 15:28 |
| anteaya | sure | 15:28 |
| Zara | yes, thank you | 15:28 |
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| anteaya | I think ttx is doing a good job outlining the pain points here | 15:28 |
| anteaya | the bit that is hard is where is the line where we can say go | 15:29 |
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| ttx | which is why you need a facilitator | 15:29 |
| * anteaya puts on her facilitator hat | 15:30 | |
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| anteaya | okay I'll will do my best | 15:30 |
| anteaya | maybe I should create a story so I can keep notes on who I have talked to | 15:30 |
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| Zara | what does the facilitator hat look like, ooi? | 15:31 |
| anteaya | and my summary of their issues and create stories of the issues that arise | 15:31 |
| anteaya | very pretty | 15:31 |
| anteaya | with feathers | 15:31 |
| Zara | :) | 15:31 |
| anteaya | :) | 15:31 |
| ttx | hmm, hitting network issues again | 15:31 |
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| ttx | that is all I had. I'll probably update the wording to make it clearer the list should be short-term and finite | 15:32 |
| SotK | I think that would be useful | 15:32 |
| Zara | great, thank you :) | 15:32 |
| ttx | waiting for more feedback. Then I suspect anteaya will fill up details on the implementation phase with however she would prefer to handle this | 15:32 |
| ttx | I think first step is identifying target power users | 15:32 |
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| anteaya | #link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000610 | 15:33 |
| ttx | also maybe raise the "bug tracker" discussion - do we really want to use then same system for bug tracking and task tracking ? | 15:33 |
| ttx | as I outlined in the long intro to taht spec, those have slightly different users and constraints | 15:33 |
| anteaya | please add tasks there so I can track them | 15:33 |
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| anteaya | and I will do the same | 15:34 |
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| Zara | okay | 15:34 |
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| ttx | alright, that's all I had | 15:35 |
| Zara | thanks :) anyone have anything else to say? | 15:35 |
| anteaya | ttx do you want to take 'raise the bug tracker discussion'? | 15:35 |
| anteaya | ttx: https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000610 | 15:35 |
| * anteaya delegates | 15:36 | |
| ttx | I'm still wondering if that would help or hinder the rest of the discussion | 15:37 |
| * krotscheck reads backscroll | 15:37 | |
| anteaya | ttx I'll leave it with you then | 15:37 |
| anteaya | I'm leaning toward hinder myself | 15:37 |
| ttx | yes, maybe add a "?" at the end of this one :) | 15:37 |
| anteaya | but it is there should anyone feel strong enough to take it up | 15:37 |
| Zara | I'm leaning toward hinder, fwiw | 15:37 |
| SotK | me too | 15:37 |
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| ttx | yeah, it's a bit orthogonal | 15:37 |
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| ttx | we ahve the same problem with LP and would have the same problem with Maniphest | 15:38 |
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| ttx | It's "how community wants us task tracker" more than "how community wants to use StoryBoard" | 15:38 |
| Zara | right, yeah, I'm in favour of not muddying the water then. | 15:38 |
| SotK | +1 | 15:38 |
| ttx | s/wants us/wants to use | 15:38 |
| anteaya | the water is muddy enough | 15:38 |
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| ttx | OK, let's punt on that one | 15:39 |
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| anteaya | remove it or leave it? | 15:39 |
| anteaya | I can remove it | 15:39 |
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| ttx | I'll remove it | 15:39 |
| anteaya | great | 15:39 |
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| anteaya | I have nothing more on this topic | 15:40 |
| ttx | me neither | 15:40 |
| * SotK wonders if krotscheck has any thoughts after reading backscroll? | 15:41 | |
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| krotscheck | StoryBoard needs to no longer live under the infra banner. | 15:41 |
| krotscheck | And it needs more cores. | 15:41 |
| * persia thinks the best way to do that is to remove the infra banner | 15:41 | |
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| krotscheck | And pretty much every argument about people camping on implementation bikeshedding that he made over a year ago, and then was made in Austin. | 15:42 |
| ttx | that sure is technically doable imho (making it independent) | 15:43 |
| * SotK trusts that anteaya's facilitation will avoid such a big bikeshed this time | 15:43 | |
| krotscheck | ttx: I tried that. I was shot down. | 15:43 |
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| krotscheck | Repeatedly | 15:43 |
| anteaya | do we want to take that on while trying to get storyboard to be the tool of choice? | 15:43 |
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| krotscheck | Fact is that storyboard has made the most progress when it was ignored. | 15:44 |
| anteaya | I'm thinking moving it after would be easy while moving it during may make both directions fail | 15:44 |
| SotK | anteaya: +1 | 15:44 |
| anteaya | well codethink didn't ignore it | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | We've got two ways of accomplishing this. Either A) Get it out from under infra's governance patterns, or B) Get enough cores in place that StoryBoard can manage itself. | 15:44 |
| krotscheck | anteaya: Ignored by infra. | 15:45 |
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| Zara | krotscheck: right now the governance isn't holding us up most of the time; often it's me trying to be careful about merging things when I don't feel confident in my knowledge. the number of cores is a problem | 15:46 |
| * SotK doesn't think infra's governence patterns are affecting storyboard much anymore, unless I'm misunderstanding the meaning | 15:46 | |
| krotscheck | Zara: What you're doing right now is WAY better than the way it used to be. | 15:46 |
| krotscheck | SotK: There was a moment when I was informed, in no uncertain terms, that I needed at least two non-author core votes on every patch. | 15:46 |
| krotscheck | Which, at the time, meant two-non-javascript-infra people | 15:47 |
| krotscheck | Because I was the only core. | 15:47 |
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| SotK | krotscheck: yeah, I saw that in the logs, but we're out of that hole now | 15:47 |
| SotK | I'd be against going back into that hole too | 15:47 |
| krotscheck | Then other cores showed up for a while. | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | And disappeared again. | 15:48 |
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| krotscheck | Anywa | 15:48 |
| krotscheck | There's history | 15:48 |
| Zara | yeah, I'm taking it as evidence that people saw how things weren't working and changed them. I'd be concerned about anything that implied we would go back to that (without increased resources, anyway) | 15:48 |
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| krotscheck | So what's to stop us from making it official? Pull StoryBoard out from under infra, let it do its own governance? | 15:49 |
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| * krotscheck is worried that as long as it's vague and not defined, there will be questions. | 15:50 | |
| anteaya | just that I think that will derail the decision we need to make about an official task tracker for openstack | 15:50 |
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| krotscheck | anteaya: Sadly it's related. It gets at the heart of the decision of "who gets to say when storyboard is ready" | 15:50 |
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| anteaya | I disagree | 15:51 |
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| krotscheck | anteaya: I trust you'll take my experience on this project into account. This has happened before, and we need guarantees that it won't happen again. | 15:51 |
| anteaya | of course | 15:51 |
| anteaya | we have to examine history and learn from it, not dismiss it | 15:52 |
| anteaya | I value your experience very much | 15:52 |
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| krotscheck | So here's the thing: Sotryboard will continue along with CodeThink's roadmap. | 15:52 |
| anteaya | but my perspective in this moment is that in order to get to a point where storyboard can be migrated to we have to focus on that as a goal | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | The TC is going to say: "Well, we want these other things" | 15:52 |
| krotscheck | Infra is going to say something similar. | 15:53 |
| anteaya | that is the direction that got us to this point of it being viable | 15:53 |
| krotscheck | But neither the TC, nor Infra, will actually contribute resources. | 15:53 |
| anteaya | well zara and SotK have already proven they want to build the things the tc and infra wants | 15:53 |
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| anteaya | they have implimented private stories since summit | 15:53 |
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| anteaya | and SotK has taken legacy code regarding teams and tested it | 15:54 |
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| krotscheck | Until [company] decides that they want [tracker] to be better at supporting [ubuntu releases for example]. | 15:54 |
| anteaya | and Zara has a proof of concept for gerrit integration | 15:54 |
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| krotscheck | This has happened with Launchpad, no? | 15:54 |
| anteaya | I don't know launchpad's history | 15:54 |
| Zara | it's true that needs might not always overlap, though; I think it's worth having something in the spec for what happens if things are added to the list that codethink isn't interested in funding. | 15:54 |
| anteaya | what I do know is that Zara and SotK and Rob Taylor (CTO of codethink) want storyboard to be successful | 15:55 |
| krotscheck | anteaya: As soon as you can get an official buy in from the actual contributors of the project that they're willing to do exactly what the TC wants, I'll back off. | 15:55 |
| anteaya | Zara: let's see if we identify any issues that fit in that space first | 15:55 |
| anteaya | krotscheck: I'm not asking you to back off | 15:56 |
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| anteaya | I want your input | 15:56 |
| anteaya | but I decide what I do with my time | 15:56 |
| anteaya | and I would like storyboard to succeed | 15:56 |
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| anteaya | and will do all I can to see that happen | 15:56 |
| Zara | anteaya: agreed, and it's not helpful for me to worry about it yet. I think we're safe in assuming everyone is aware of the potential problems now, at least. | 15:57 |
| anteaya | Zara: yes, and being open to input and addressing it when it is raised | 15:57 |
| anteaya | Zara: like we do with anything else in our workflow | 15:57 |
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| Zara | :) we're nearly out of time, but #storyboard is always open | 15:58 |
| Zara | last time we overran a little | 15:58 |
| anteaya | thanks for chairing another great meeting Zara | 15:58 |
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| Zara | \o/ | 15:59 |
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| Zara | #endmeeting | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 16:00:13 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:00 |
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| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-05-25-15.00.html | 16:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-05-25-15.00.txt | 16:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storyboard/2016/storyboard.2016-05-25-15.00.log.html | 16:00 |
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| SotK | thanks Zara! | 16:00 |
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| smcginnis | #startmeeting Cinder | 16:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 16:00:26 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is smcginnis. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 16:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 16:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'cinder' | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | ping dulek duncant eharney geguileo winston-d e0ne jungleboyj jgriffith thingee smcginnis hemna xyang tbarron scottda erlon rhedlind jbernard _alastor_ vincent_hou kmartin patrickeast sheel dongwenjuan JaniceLee cFouts Thelo vivekd adrianofr mtanino yuriy_n17 karlamrhein diablo_rojo jay.xu jgregor baumann rajinir | 16:00 |
| e0ne | hi | 16:00 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: Thanks | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | Hey everyone | 16:00 |
| geguileo | Hi | 16:00 |
| sheel | hi | 16:00 |
| e0ne | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/CinderMeetings#Next_meeting | 16:00 |
| jgregor | Hiya! | 16:00 |
| DuncanT | Hi | 16:00 |
| adrianofr | Hey | 16:00 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: Beat me to it. ;) | 16:00 |
| Swanson | Hello | 16:00 |
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| xyang1 | hi | 16:00 |
| scottda | hi | 16:01 |
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| smcginnis | #topic Announcements | 16:01 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: :) | 16:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:01 | |
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| hemna | hi | 16:01 |
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| jgriffith | o/ | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Hello. | 16:01 |
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| smcginnis | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/cinder-spec-review-tracking Review focus tracking | 16:01 |
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| baumann | Hello! | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | I finally spent a little time and updated that ^^ | 16:02 |
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| aimeeu | . | 16:02 |
| diablo_rojo | Hello :) | 16:02 |
| smcginnis | Please take a look and try to spend some time on the things we've identified as priorities. | 16:02 |
| bswartz | .o/ | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | I've definitely missed some things we've talked about, so please add any glaring ommissions. | 16:02 |
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| smcginnis | Also, if any of those are yours, feel free to update with latest links or any other helpful information. | 16:03 |
| smcginnis | #link https://bugs.launchpad.net/nova/+bugs?field.status:list=NEW&field.tag=volumes Nova volume bugs | 16:03 |
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| smcginnis | Just usual reminder on that one ^ that nova can always use our input on volume related issues. | 16:04 |
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| tbarron | hi | 16:04 |
| DuncanT | Dynamic reconfig is listed as both a priority and a nice-to-have | 16:04 |
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| smcginnis | DuncanT: Oh? | 16:04 |
| diablo_rojo | Yeah I am special like that | 16:04 |
| smcginnis | diablo_rojo: You're special all right. :P | 16:04 |
| diablo_rojo | smcginnis: :P | 16:05 |
| diablo_rojo | I was working on addressing comments today | 16:05 |
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| diablo_rojo | I guess I am not sure what needs to be added based on the larger conversation between jungleboyj, hemna, patrickeast, and dulek | 16:05 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095691.html Gerrit Downtime ML Announcement | 16:05 |
| jungleboyj | I added a question out there as I have gotten kind-of lost. | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | #info Gerrit will have an outage Friday 2016-06-03 at 20:00 UTC | 16:06 |
| smcginnis | Plan accordingly. :) | 16:06 |
| hemna | ? | 16:06 |
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| smcginnis | hemna: For the gerrit downtime. | 16:07 |
| * jungleboyj will take vacation. | 16:07 | |
| sheel | *20:00 through 24:00 UTC | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | ;-) | 16:07 |
| bswartz | They should do it this friday rather than next friday | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | hemna: Cuz I know how bad you;ll feel without access to gerrit. ;) | 16:07 |
| hemna | heh :) | 16:07 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:07 |
| smcginnis | bswartz: I'm sure they have a reason for their timing. | 16:07 |
| scottda | hemna: And that's 1:00 PM PDT, since we know how much you love UTC time | 16:07 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: Are they going to make it suck less now? | 16:08 |
| smcginnis | jungleboyj: One can only hope. :) | 16:08 |
| * jungleboyj start to pray | 16:08 | |
| * diablo_rojo crosses fingers | 16:08 | |
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| smcginnis | #info Women of OpenStack looking for mentors | 16:08 |
| hemna | gerrit down at 1pm...man, that sounds like an excuse to hit the river with a fly rod.... | 16:08 |
| smcginnis | #link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-May/095667.html ML announcement | 16:08 |
| e0ne | 11pm in my timezone.. I'll be able to finish work before 11pm :) | 16:08 |
| sheel | they want to rename some projects | 16:08 |
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| jgriffith | hemna: +100 | 16:08 |
| smcginnis | Looking for mentors to help. See ML post for more details. | 16:09 |
| geguileo | e0ne: 1 hour earlier for me ;-) | 16:09 |
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| diablo_rojo | smcginnis: Its pretty simple to get into the system. It's just a google form to fill out. | 16:09 |
| e0ne | geguileo: you're a lucky man | 16:09 |
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| smcginnis | diablo_rojo: Great to see that taking off. :) | 16:09 |
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| sheel | diablo_rojo: lot of does and don't as well in form | 16:10 |
| diablo_rojo | smcginnis: If you want to a mentor and a mentee that's fine too | 16:10 |
| geguileo | diablo_rojo: But it was asking about Austin stuff ;-) | 16:10 |
| diablo_rojo | geguileo: Yeah, it's been out since like January | 16:10 |
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| diablo_rojo | geguileo: Just skip the Austin stuff :) | 16:10 |
| smcginnis | #topic Midcycle planning | 16:11 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Midcycle planning (Meeting topic: Cinder)" | 16:11 | |
| smcginnis | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/newton-cinder-midcycle Planning etherpad | 16:11 |
| geguileo | diablo_rojo: I was actually considering signing in, but I'm no good at some of the stuff a mentor should be doing according to the document | 16:11 |
| smcginnis | I had this as an announcement item, but probably worth making its own topic. | 16:11 |
| smcginnis | Please add your name to the etherpad if planning on attending. | 16:11 |
| smcginnis | List is pretty small so far. | 16:11 |
| diablo_rojo | geguileo: Maybe you sign up as a mentee to get good at those things ;) Then later sign up as a mentor | 16:12 |
| smcginnis | And don't forget to reserve a hotel room. | 16:12 |
| geguileo | diablo_rojo: rofl | 16:12 |
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| smcginnis | :) | 16:12 |
| scottda | Yes and please book your Hotel room for the mid-cycle to get a discount. There is not a block of reserved rooms, it is first-come, first-served. | 16:12 |
| smcginnis | We also can start capturing a list of topics to cover at the midcycle in the etherpad. | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | scottda: They still had rooms available yesterday. | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | I just reserved mine yesterday. | 16:13 |
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| hemna | smcginnis, fwiw, I'm attempting to get travel approval..... | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | Finally remembered to do it. | 16:13 |
| scottda | jungleboyj: Cool. I just don't want anyone to have to pay more than the discount rate. | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | hemna: Awesome! | 16:13 |
| hemna | unlikely though that we'll be there. | 16:13 |
| diablo_rojo | hemna: Me too. | 16:13 |
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| jungleboyj | hemna: Thow shalt get travel approval. | 16:13 |
| smcginnis | hemna: I think you need to go to the HP office there to transition things. ;) | 16:13 |
| jungleboyj | smcginnis: I should be approved. Just waiting for the go-ahead. | 16:14 |
| smcginnis | Some interesting challenges this time around. :| | 16:14 |
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| smcginnis | Any other agenda items? Pretty light this week. | 16:15 |
| diablo_rojo | Can talk about the conversation going on for my spec | 16:15 |
| smcginnis | #topic Open Discussion | 16:15 |
| e0ne | I've got one item about unit tests | 16:15 |
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| smcginnis | diablo_rojo: Go ahead | 16:15 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: You're next | 16:15 |
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| DuncanT | Avishy asked that we discuss the list-manageable volumes spec and patches | 16:16 |
| geguileo | I would also like to talk about our broken rolling upgrades :-) | 16:16 |
| diablo_rojo | So, is the conversation just that I need to add to it saying things could be hosed if this is run in an HA environment | 16:16 |
| diablo_rojo | ? | 16:16 |
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| diablo_rojo | Or is there another part of the implementation that needs to happen? | 16:16 |
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| diablo_rojo | #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/286234/10 Dynamic Reconfig | 16:17 |
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| diablo_rojo | hemna: dulek jungleboyj patrickeast all had comments there so I am looking to you all for clarification | 16:17 |
| e0ne | diablo_rojo: IMO, it should not be depended on HA things | 16:17 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: I agree. | 16:17 |
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| diablo_rojo | So I just need to point out that there could be issues here that are independent of this approach and could happen anyway? | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | I just thought that we need to note in a disclaimer that sysadmins may enable settings using this that could cause issues. | 16:18 |
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| hemna | as I said in my last comment on the review "All I'm saying is that we need to document this as a potential for major problems. " | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | This is nothing new. The concerns for A/A c-vol would go with the HA documentation. | 16:18 |
| e0ne | +1 | 16:18 |
| diablo_rojo | hemna: Document in the spec or somewhere else? | 16:18 |
| hemna | folks seem to be worried that I'm asking for A/A solutions in this spec | 16:18 |
| hemna | and that's NOT what I said. | 16:18 |
| jungleboyj | hemna: The 'here is a loaded gun' disclaimer. | 16:18 |
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| hemna | the spec should mention the potential issues with A/A, and we should document in the devref what not to do. | 16:19 |
| hemna | that's it. | 16:19 |
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| diablo_rojo | hemna: Got it. Will do :) | 16:19 |
| hemna | the A/A issue can cause really bad problems | 16:19 |
| hemna | we should be up front about it. | 16:19 |
| e0ne | hemna: good point | 16:20 |
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| diablo_rojo | hemna: I agree. Make sure people know how badly they can mess it up | 16:20 |
| smcginnis | diablo_rojo: good? | 16:20 |
| diablo_rojo | smcginnis: Yup | 16:20 |
| smcginnis | Thanks! | 16:20 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: You're up | 16:20 |
| diablo_rojo | Thank you :) | 16:20 |
| e0ne | thanks, Sean | 16:20 |
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| e0ne | I've tried to organize our unit tests a bit | 16:21 |
| e0ne | and found that backends' unit-tests are depended on execution order due to lack of mocking, I guess | 16:21 |
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| e0ne | here is my patch: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320148/ | 16:21 |
| e0ne | I need help from drivers maintainers with it | 16:21 |
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| smcginnis | e0ne: I think that's what I was seeing in the 5 minutes I spent on it. :) | 16:21 |
| smcginnis | Then I gave up. | 16:21 |
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| smcginnis | It would be nice to reorganize that tree. | 16:22 |
| e0ne | and I don't have an idea, how to check it with hacking rules | 16:22 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: I'll propose other patches too | 16:22 |
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| e0ne | smcginnis: but drivers tests make me very sad :( | 16:22 |
| DuncanT | I don't think you can check it with hacking rules, you need to do runtime data poisoning analysis to detect it | 16:22 |
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| DuncanT | It isn't generally detectable via static analysis in python... it's a stupidly hard language to static analyse | 16:23 |
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| e0ne | StorwizeSVCCommonDriverTestCase takes more than 4 seconds :( | 16:23 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: sorry... can ellaborate a bit about the problem? | 16:23 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith: sure | 16:23 |
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| jgriffith | e0ne: sorry... /me is slow :) | 16:24 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: there is some issues mock | 16:24 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith: not everything is mocked right | 16:24 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith: so once I've moved tests to other directory, they stucked :( | 16:24 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: oh... you mean like relative vs absolute paths or something in the mocks? | 16:24 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: I think it's mocks related, but not 100% sure | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: hmm... interesting | 16:25 |
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| hemna | I'm not following the issue here | 16:25 |
| hemna | can you show some examples? pastebin errors, etc. ? | 16:25 |
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| jgriffith | I think the issue is that mock blows up when he moves things | 16:25 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: I'll download the patch and run it to see what you mean | 16:26 |
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| tbarron | e0ne: does it make sense to divice and conquer here, moving fewer tiles in each patch, raising bugs when that patch fails? | 16:26 |
| smcginnis | jgriffith: That's probably the best way. | 16:26 |
| e0ne | jgriffith, hemna: http://logs.openstack.org/48/320148/1/check/gate-cinder-python27-db/a33e7a1/console.html | 16:26 |
| smcginnis | Things do fall apart when you try to run them. | 16:26 |
| e0ne | jgriffith, hemna: TBH, that patch works on some envs but fails on other | 16:26 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith, hemna: I don't know why:( | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: hehe... we'll see if it's my lucky day or not | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | running now | 16:27 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: :) | 16:27 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: With the timeout it's looking like a sleep isn't getting mocked right, but that's odd. | 16:27 |
| hemna | huh | 16:27 |
| jgriffith | oh no... not sleep mock problems again :( | 16:27 |
| e0ne | smcginnis: sleep or some I/O process | 16:27 |
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| smcginnis | e0ne: True | 16:27 |
| smcginnis | jgriffith: No kidding! | 16:28 |
| e0ne | StorwizeSVCCommonDriverTestCase <- looks like sleep is not mocked there! | 16:28 |
| jgriffith | ahh... test_terminate_connection_with_decorator ;( | 16:28 |
| jungleboyj | e0ne: :-( | 16:28 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: I wonder if it would be better to move these in smaller chunks. | 16:29 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: as you said though, very strange that moving the tests exposes this | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | At least for problem isolation. | 16:29 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: agree | 16:29 |
| e0ne | I'll appreciate any help with this things. | 16:29 |
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| smcginnis | Any maybe a little easier than the last time some guys decided to move everything around. | 16:29 |
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| smcginnis | ;) | 16:29 |
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| e0ne | we can continue to discuss it in the cinder channel to free this one for more important topics | 16:29 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: Thanks | 16:30 |
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| smcginnis | avishay couldn't attend, but he wanted his list manageable volumes/snapshots discussed. | 16:30 |
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| * smcginnis is looking for link | 16:30 | |
| e0ne | smcginnis, jgriffith: FYI: test_rbd always hangs on my envs if it is moved to unit/volume/drivers directory | 16:30 |
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| smcginnis | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/285296/ | 16:31 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: yeah, for me it's the zonemanager tests :( | 16:31 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith: it's something new:) | 16:31 |
| DuncanT | The basic objection here seems to be that the paging stuff is hard... it's totally driver dependant though, so can only really be done in the driver | 16:31 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: Yeah, that's the problem/concern I have with it. | 16:31 |
| smcginnis | I wanted to code it up and see, but with the way he did it for LVM it would definitely be bad for my backend. | 16:32 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: You're right though, those usages of mock are all wrong | 16:32 |
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| jgriffith | e0ne: they're mocking the entire class :( | 16:32 |
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| e0ne | DuncanT: maybe we can make it manager, not in driver | 16:32 |
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| smcginnis | It would be something like O(n*4) for me, so if I end up throwing away 90% of the results at the end that would be bad. | 16:32 |
| xyang1 | smcginnis: I'll review again. he said he addressed my comments | 16:32 |
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| smcginnis | xyang1: OK, good. | 16:32 |
| e0ne | jgriffith: what test is it? not sure that I want to see it... | 16:33 |
| e0ne | :) | 16:33 |
| jgriffith | e0ne: LOL.. I'll ping you after meeting | 16:33 |
| DuncanT | e0ne: If you do it in the manager, you force the driver to pull in potentially thousands of results, which might be expensive | 16:33 |
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| e0ne | jgriffith: thanks | 16:33 |
| smcginnis | So driver maintainers, please take a look at that list patch and make sure it's going to work out for you. | 16:33 |
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| xyang1 | e0ne: I don't think it can be dobe without driver call | 16:34 |
| e0ne | DuncanT: but not every driver will be able to do it on the storage side | 16:34 |
| * hemna reruns the hp tests.... | 16:34 | |
| DuncanT | smcginnis: Just look at the method signature and try to implement it from scratch.... looking at LVM isn't very helpful in this case I think | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | FTR I'm opposed to the idea altogether | 16:34 |
| xyang1 | s/dobe/done | 16:34 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Why? | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | e0ne: I won't either, but in my driver I need to get the bare minimum, then filter, then get the full details for what's left. | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | some devices are used for more than one cloud or deployment | 16:34 |
| smcginnis | I think. | 16:34 |
| e0ne | I like the idea how we did with generic volume migrations | 16:34 |
| jgriffith | things like importing into OpenStack IMO are admin things that frankly *should* require a bit of effort | 16:35 |
| xyang1 | e0ne: because each driver defines its own ref | 16:35 |
| xyang1 | e0ne: manager does not know | 16:35 |
| hemna | jgriffith, +1 | 16:35 |
| Swanson | smcginnis, It involves getting tons of data (some of which might be used by other backends or clouds) repeatedly or adding a cache. | 16:35 |
| smcginnis | jgriffith: So you think they should just go to their storage to find the volume, then do a manage in OpenStack once they know which one they want? | 16:35 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: admins are disagreeing | 16:35 |
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| jgriffith | smcginnis: yes | 16:35 |
| hemna | this also exposes other volumes on the backend that shouldn't be viewable by an openstack admin | 16:35 |
| e0ne | hemna: +1 | 16:36 |
| Swanson | smcginnis, sucks. Not against it but I'd rather return less data and have another option to drill down. | 16:36 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: Particularly as figuring out the ref for some backends turns out not to be trivial | 16:36 |
| jgriffith | hemna: exactly, that's part of my point. | 16:36 |
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| hemna | I think this exposes too much | 16:36 |
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| jgriffith | I'm not convinced of the use case to begin with but that's ok | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | OK, please comment on the patch and make sure concerns are captured there. | 16:37 |
| smcginnis | Would be good having some operator feedack for things like this. :/ | 16:37 |
| Swanson | Can't we just let it pass and then whine and counter patch later? | 16:37 |
| xyang1 | DuncanT: is operator? | 16:37 |
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| jgriffith | Swanson: that always ends well :) | 16:38 |
| smcginnis | It's the Cinder way! :) | 16:38 |
| Swanson | jgriffith, It's the process I'm most comfortable with. | 16:38 |
| DuncanT | xyang1: Yes. The format is different between backends, and often not exactly what appears on the (propriatary) backend gui | 16:38 |
| Swanson | jgriffith, smcginnis: :) | 16:39 |
| DuncanT | smcginnis: I've got a customer who banged their head against the wall trying to get manage working... it's easy once you know how but not easy to do from scratch | 16:39 |
| Swanson | DuncanT, Isn't this a documentation issue? | 16:39 |
| DuncanT | Swanson: I'm not convinced that documenting a complex proceedure is better than making it easier | 16:39 |
| hemna | DuncanT, because they didn't know the format for the particular backend ? | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Yes | 16:40 |
| hemna | yah that part really sux0rs | 16:40 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: With avishy's patch, it is easy | 16:40 |
| hemna | to me it's similar to not knowing what extra specs are supported by any particular backend | 16:40 |
| hemna | the driver knows what it needs | 16:40 |
| hemna | we just don't have a way of exposing it | 16:40 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Yah, somebody should fix that too ;-) | 16:40 |
| Swanson | DuncanT, So we make knowing the values easier but then they have to go back to the backend to figure out what those values mean. Same issue. Other side. | 16:41 |
| hemna | well, avishay's patch also does something that I think is a security problem | 16:41 |
| hemna | by listing all available volumes on an array | 16:41 |
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| hemna | that is bad IMHO | 16:41 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: It's admin only... how often does the admin not have login access to the box, and therefore full access to the creds to talk to the backend anyway? | 16:42 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: fairly often actually | 16:42 |
| smcginnis | OK, everyone with concerns please comment. Maybe Avishay can attend next week's meeting to discuss it further. | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: it's not uncommon to have an openstack-admin | 16:43 |
| hemna | DuncanT, that depends entirely on the organization deploying. an openstack admin != storage admin | 16:43 |
| jgriffith | so I think all these concerns can be worked out if control is left to the driver | 16:43 |
| smcginnis | Well, that admin has the credentials in cinder.conf, so it uses the same thing. They can log in and view the same data that would be shown. | 16:43 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: People are actually doing that in the wild now? Cool | 16:44 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: I wonder how e.g. not having access to the logs plays out? | 16:44 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah, like hemna mentioned... openstack-admin, storage-admin, VSphere admin etc | 16:44 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: I'm aware of the concept, but everybody I know who tried it failed in practice to make it useful | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | smcginnis: make a fair point too though about cinder.conf... which I get complaints about on a regular basis | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | ie don't expose credentials in the conf file | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | but I don't really know of a good way to fix that | 16:45 |
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| jgriffith | at leat reasonably | 16:45 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: the cinder.conf point was the one I was trying to make, sorry if I wasn't clear | 16:45 |
| jgriffith | DuncanT: yeah, valid | 16:46 |
| smcginnis | We could possibly provide a tool to store credentials in an encrypted file that cinder would pull from. | 16:46 |
| jungleboyj | jgriffith: I don't understand why the obfuscation we previously proposed didn't take off for that reason. | 16:46 |
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| smcginnis | jungleboyj: Oh, what was that? | 16:46 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: which? | 16:46 |
| DuncanT | If cinder can decrypt it, then it's tricky to stop anybody with any useful admin access to the box from doing so too | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | It was an obfuscation approach that encrypted the data in conf files for like the database connection, etc. | 16:47 |
| jungleboyj | IBM carried the patch for it internally for quite some time. | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | jungleboyj: Link? | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | jungleboyj: don't remember exactly but wasn't it something about too easy to reverse decode? And the fact that the driver would have the code to decrypt it anywa? | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: Just slightly more secure than being able to "cat cinder.conf" and see it. | 16:47 |
| jgriffith | I don't recall | 16:47 |
| DuncanT | smcginnis: Security theatre. | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | Or rather /secure/obfuscated/ | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: Very trye | 16:47 |
| smcginnis | *true | 16:47 |
| xyang1 | DuncanT: that's the reason why apple does not want to unlock the iphone:) | 16:47 |
| hemna | that sounds like something that should be a cross project discussion | 16:48 |
| DuncanT | smcginnis: That's how you end up with the TSA | 16:48 |
| hemna | other projects might need to secure their conf files? | 16:48 |
| hemna | I dunno | 16:48 |
| jungleboyj | jgregor: Oh, maybe that was it. It was better than nothing. | 16:48 |
| smcginnis | DuncanT: LOL | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | smcginnis: "security through obfusication", isn't that said t be a bad thing :) | 16:48 |
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| hemna | just seems like a useless exercise to me | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | TSA... LOL | 16:48 |
| jgriffith | so back to the manage thing.... | 16:49 |
| jgriffith | well... never mind I'll just put it in the patch comments | 16:49 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:49 |
| DuncanT | jgriffith: You said something about maybe being able to fix it in the driver? | 16:49 |
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| DuncanT | jgriffith: Does your backend know which volumes are part of which cloud or something? | 16:49 |
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| hemna | DuncanT, ours doesn't. we won't know which ones to show and which to not show. | 16:50 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: I know most don't. | 16:51 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: A security conscious deployment could always disable this call via policy.... | 16:51 |
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| hemna | sure | 16:51 |
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| jungleboyj | DuncanT: ++ | 16:51 |
| hemna | then there is the issue with showing volumes already managed by another deployment, and then managing them....causing conflicts and pain. | 16:52 |
| Swanson | I'm not implementing nuthin until Dell's phalanx of liability lawyers and crack security team takes a gander. | 16:52 |
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| DuncanT | hemna: Nothing stopping them doing that manually today | 16:53 |
| hemna | sure | 16:53 |
| hemna | that is true, but this makes it way easier and more likely to happen | 16:53 |
| smcginnis | One more thing I wanted to bring up before we run out of time. There's been some grumbling that it's taking much longer to get things reviewed. | 16:53 |
| hemna | today the admin has to manually find the volume, which is good and bad at the same time. | 16:53 |
| DuncanT | hemna: Not so sure of that, personally | 16:53 |
| smcginnis | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Cinder#Review_Links Review Links | 16:53 |
| smcginnis | Please please spend time reviewing patches if you can. | 16:53 |
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| hemna | smcginnis, yes dad! :) | 16:54 |
| smcginnis | hemna: Now go to your room! | 16:54 |
| smcginnis | :) | 16:54 |
| hemna | :) | 16:54 |
| * geguileo wonder if everybody missed his comment on wanting to talk about broken rolling upgrades... | 16:54 | |
| Swanson | My failback patch finally got a review! Thanks xyang1 ! | 16:54 |
| geguileo | s/wonder/wonders | 16:54 |
| kfarr | Also before we run out of time and in a similar vein, to follow up from last week, I'd like to request reviews for the Castellan integration code. Spec: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/247577/, code: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/280492/ | 16:54 |
| * DuncanT has had his upstream time cut by his employer :-( Still doing some reviews but not nearly as many as I did | 16:54 | |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Doh! Don't be so polite! :) | 16:54 |
| geguileo | lol | 16:54 |
| xyang1 | Swanson: now you need to find more reviewers:) | 16:55 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: That's more important. We still have 5 minutes. | 16:55 |
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| geguileo | Well, our rolling upgrades are currently a little broken | 16:55 |
| DuncanT | kfarr: I need to get back to that. Looks like the patch is actually better than the spec suggests it is | 16:55 |
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| geguileo | I discovered it last month a posted a couple of patches | 16:55 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Can you sumarize the issue? | 16:55 |
| geguileo | Sure | 16:55 |
| kfarr | Ok, thanks DuncanT, please leave a comment on the review links with your thoughts | 16:56 |
| geguileo | Full description is here: http://gorka.eguileor.com/learning-something-new-about-oslo-versioned-objects/ | 16:56 |
| geguileo | First patch is this one: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/307074 | 16:56 |
| geguileo | And we have 2 issues | 16:56 |
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| DuncanT | kfarr: Will do. Sorry about the delay, I've been rather busy :-( | 16:56 |
| geguileo | 1, we are not keeping our OVO lists in sync with the OVO they are listing | 16:56 |
| geguileo | 2 we don't have relationship maps for the backports | 16:56 |
| kfarr | DuncanT, I understand :) | 16:56 |
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| smcginnis | geguileo: Nice write up. I'll have to spend some time reading through that. | 16:57 |
| geguileo | So when OSLO tries to do a backport of a Volume | 16:57 |
| geguileo | Doesn't know which version of VolumeType it must backport the volume_type field | 16:57 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: So you have some patches out to fix this? Or is there more to fix? | 16:57 |
| geguileo | And that happens for all Versioned Objects that have other Versioned Object fields | 16:57 |
| geguileo | smcginnis: The first 2 patches in that series fix this | 16:58 |
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| geguileo | First one links lists to their OVO contents | 16:58 |
| geguileo | The second one creates a mechanism to auto generate the relationships based on our OVO history | 16:58 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Great! | 16:58 |
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| geguileo | I'll send a new update in 10 minutes with a commit message change on the second patch | 16:59 |
| geguileo | But they should be ready to go after that | 16:59 |
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| geguileo | Well, that was all | 16:59 |
| thingee | o/ | 16:59 |
| smcginnis | geguileo: Thanks! I'll watch for the update. | 16:59 |
| DuncanT | geguileo: Can we log a warning (or info) every time we backport an object version? | 16:59 |
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| smcginnis | thingee: Hah! One minute to spare. ;) | 17:00 |
| thingee | ;D | 17:00 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: Mmmmm, we probably could | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | geguileo: IT should only happen during an upgrade, and stop happening at the end of it, right? | 17:00 |
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| * thingee was passed out somewhere in vancouver | 17:00 | |
| smcginnis | And times up... | 17:00 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: Yes | 17:00 |
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| smcginnis | See you back in channel. Thanks everyone. | 17:00 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: So during upgrades your logs would grow a lot... | 17:00 |
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| smcginnis | #endmeeting | 17:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:00 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 17:00:45 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2016/cinder.2016-05-25-16.00.html | 17:00 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2016/cinder.2016-05-25-16.00.txt | 17:00 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/cinder/2016/cinder.2016-05-25-16.00.log.html | 17:00 |
| DuncanT | geguileo: Being noisy about it for a while seems like a good plan then... we can turn it off once we're happier | 17:00 |
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| geguileo | DuncanT: But we can do it as a debug log | 17:01 |
| geguileo | DuncanT: Would that be ok with you? | 17:01 |
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| krtaylor | #startmeeting ironic_qa | 17:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 17:01:27 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is krtaylor. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:01 |
| DuncanT | geguileo: debug is fine I guess. Not much real difference | 17:01 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:01 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'ironic_qa' | 17:01 |
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| vdrok | o/ | 17:01 |
| rpioso | o/ | 17:01 |
| mjturek1 | o/ | 17:01 |
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| watanabe_isao | o/ | 17:02 |
| TheJulia | o/ | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | hi everyone, I'm hosting this week, jlvillal is away | 17:02 |
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| mjturek1 | hey krtaylor :) | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | As always the agenda is at: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Ironic-QA | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | hi mjturek1 | 17:02 |
| krtaylor | its a pretty light agenda this week | 17:02 |
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| krtaylor | #topic Announcements | 17:03 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:03 | |
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| krtaylor | so any announcement this week? | 17:03 |
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| watanabe_isao | krtaylor, may I give a Info? | 17:03 |
| vdrok | one announcement from me - we now have tests for microversions in tempest - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/260358/ | 17:03 |
| krtaylor | watanabe_isao, sure, you have the floor | 17:04 |
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| krtaylor | vdrok, excellent! | 17:04 |
| watanabe_isao | #Info Fujitsu iRMC CI gave its first test result to Ironic, yesterday (5/25). Currently the CI is not so stable due to some intra network issue. And we set it to non-voting for now. We will try our best to fix the issue, and start to vote ASAP. | 17:04 |
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| krtaylor | watanabe_isao, it should be non-voting for a while, until it proved to be robust | 17:04 |
| krtaylor | but thats good news! | 17:05 |
| rloo | great work watanabe_isao! | 17:05 |
| jroll | \o/ | 17:05 |
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| watanabe_isao | krtaylor, sure. | 17:05 |
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| watanabe_isao | rloo, thank you. | 17:05 |
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| krtaylor | ok, any other announcements? | 17:05 |
| krtaylor | #topic Grenade | 17:06 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Grenade (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:06 | |
| krtaylor | great progress this week! | 17:06 |
| krtaylor | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ironic-newton-grenade-whiteboard | 17:06 |
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| krtaylor | anyone want to make any comments or raise any topics on grenade? | 17:07 |
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| jroll | just that we need reviews, sounds like things are passing just fine :) | 17:07 |
| jroll | patches are on the etherpad there | 17:07 |
| krtaylor | yep, looks like 8 patch sets are left | 17:08 |
| TheJulia | awesome | 17:08 |
| * devananda sneaks in the back, catches up | 17:08 | |
| vdrok | morning devananda ! :) | 17:08 |
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| krtaylor | anything else? | 17:09 |
| krtaylor | #topic Functional testing | 17:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Functional testing (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:09 | |
| krtaylor | I'm not aware of any progress here, anyone? | 17:09 |
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| * jroll hasn't heard anything | 17:10 | |
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| rloo | sorry can i ask a dumb question about grenade tests. | 17:10 |
| rloo | once those patches are *in*, we have grenade tests working, right? | 17:10 |
| rloo | then do we add more tests to grenade? | 17:10 |
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| vdrok | rloo: yep, grenade is pretty stable, grenade partial is not atm | 17:10 |
| vdrok | and I think we don't add tests to grenade | 17:11 |
| vdrok | it just runs smoke | 17:11 |
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| rloo | vdrok: ok, so next thing is to get grenade partial working? | 17:11 |
| vdrok | maybe we'll add something in resorce_create and resource_verify, but dunno | 17:11 |
| jroll | well, I'd like to make sure smoke covers everything we care about, e.g. rebuild | 17:11 |
| rloo | vdrok: I mean, after you party and take a break :) | 17:11 |
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| jroll | but yes, the next would be grenade partial working. which implies getting rolling upgrades working. :) | 17:12 |
| jroll | (well, and making grenade a voting job, ofc) | 17:12 |
| vdrok | rloo: yes, it mostly works, I guess the reason it's unstable is concurrency 2 | 17:12 |
| rloo | ok, just want to make sure there is a list of things-to-do | 17:12 |
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| jroll | cool | 17:13 |
| jroll | shall we move on? | 17:13 |
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| krtaylor | ok, so I think we are past functional | 17:13 |
| vdrok | jroll: isn't partial just cold upgrading ironic ironic without everything else? | 17:13 |
| devananda | what are the chances we'll get grenade testing on some of hte current stable branches? | 17:13 |
| devananda | vdrok: there are two forms of partial upgrade that I think we need to cover | 17:13 |
| devananda | 1. upgrade some ironic services | 17:14 |
| jroll | vdrok: it's making sure new ironic-conductor works with old ironic-api, which is the basis for rolling upgrades | 17:14 |
| devananda | 2. upgrade some openstack services but not others | 17:14 |
| jroll | devananda: (2) is completely different, and something we should work on, but as a separate task | 17:14 |
| jroll | (imo) | 17:14 |
| krtaylor | lets jump back to this topic in the open discussion | 17:14 |
| devananda | jroll: agreed. but it's also a "partial upgrade" | 17:14 |
| devananda | krtaylor: sure, sorry | 17:14 |
| jroll | krtaylor: +1 | 17:14 |
| vdrok | aha, the reason I ask is I saw it passing a couple of times :) | 17:14 |
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| krtaylor | #topic 3rd party CI | 17:15 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "3rd party CI (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:15 | |
| * jroll is excited about this topic | 17:15 | |
| krtaylor | I just sent an email for more eyes on the status of the teams | 17:15 |
| krtaylor | in the driver wiki | 17:15 |
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| * rloo likes to see jroll excited | 17:15 | |
| [1]cdearborn | o/ | 17:15 |
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| watanabe_isao | krtaylor, do I need to provide any Info (of iRMC CI) to you to update the driver wiki? | 17:16 |
| krtaylor | I have talked to a few teams and made a couple of changes, but I doubt it is complete | 17:16 |
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| jroll | so I see CI systems that say they're reporting on every patch, that are not reporting on every patch | 17:16 |
| jroll | e.g. irmc just started reporting today, I don't think that's enough data | 17:16 |
| krtaylor | watanabe_isao, yes, please review the ironic/driver page | 17:17 |
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| jroll | oneview reports on patches touching ironic/drivers/ only, apparently | 17:17 |
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| watanabe_isao | krtaylor, sure sir. | 17:17 |
| krtaylor | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ironic/Drivers | 17:17 |
| krtaylor | jroll, I don't doubt it | 17:17 |
| jroll | cisco must also be filtering based on file, I don't see it on e.g. https://review.openstack.org/#/c/318497/ | 17:17 |
| TheJulia | jroll: I believe that is hardware capacity issues combinded with providing timely feedback | 17:17 |
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| thiagop | true, I talked about it on the Summit with some people. We just don't have enough hardware to run on every patch | 17:17 |
| krtaylor | jroll, I'd like to get this table sanity checked for sure | 17:18 |
| jroll | well, those systems need to get there IMO | 17:18 |
| jroll | from the spec: "It runs the expected tests for every patch set that is not excluded. Reasons for this exclusion will be documented and approved by the ironic team." | 17:18 |
| jroll | I don't remember seeing any exclusions documented, let alone approving them | 17:18 |
| krtaylor | yes, and we also said that it didn't have to be in the 4 hour window to start | 17:19 |
| jroll | yep | 17:19 |
| jroll | the spec also says "unless that change is to code or documentation that can not impact the driver" | 17:19 |
| jroll | certainly ironic/utils/ can impact drivers | 17:19 |
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| jroll | almost certainly* | 17:19 |
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| krtaylor | 4hrs is the recommended time to turn around a comment | 17:19 |
| jroll | well, 8 hours in Newton, 4 in Ocata | 17:20 |
| thiagop | Maybe we should relax this requirement? Ironic testing requires hardware... | 17:20 |
| krtaylor | ironic patches usually don't come in so fast to make that a problem :) | 17:20 |
| jroll | right, there aren't a lot of patches | 17:20 |
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| jroll | this was a known caveat when we introduced it | 17:20 |
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| jroll | vendors said it would be fine, given the estimates on number of patches | 17:20 |
| krtaylor | exactly, lets see commenting and if it is past 8hrs evaluate then | 17:21 |
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| jroll | +1 | 17:21 |
| thiagop | I'm trying to reduce our testing time, but yesterday I was with 18 patches on my queue at some point... | 17:21 |
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| jroll | with the addition that I expect every patch running in CI | 17:21 |
| devananda | some of the large patch sets that get rebased periodically might be affecting this right now | 17:21 |
| jroll | or rather, following the rules upstream CI does | 17:21 |
| devananda | eg, the network integration | 17:21 |
| devananda | jroll: what was the estimated # of patches per day mentioned at the summit? do you recall? | 17:22 |
| krtaylor | I don't think teams should just give up, run through the queue and see how long it takes | 17:22 |
| jroll | sure, we won't panic if some CI can't handle the load of a large series being uploaded | 17:22 |
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| jroll | I don't, sorry | 17:22 |
| thiagop | I think it was 30 | 17:22 |
| * krtaylor looks at his notes | 17:22 | |
| jroll | this is the exclusion list for upstream CI https://github.com/openstack-infra/project-config/blob/master/zuul/layout.yaml#L971-L979 | 17:23 |
| watanabe_isao | yesterday, there were 45 patches for 24 hours. | 17:23 |
| rloo | that's 30 revisions to patches. | 17:23 |
| krtaylor | but that is abnormal | 17:23 |
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| devananda | jroll: that exclusion list seems fine for 3rd party too, IMO | 17:24 |
| jroll | devananda: yep, that's my thought | 17:24 |
| krtaylor | agreed | 17:25 |
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| jroll | so yeah, just wanted to point out the requirements, and that there are CIs that say they fulfill the requirement but don't in reality | 17:25 |
| krtaylor | well, I'll be happy to correct info on the wiki status table, but I probably shouldn't be the one policing it | 17:26 |
| jroll | krtaylor: yeah, I'm happy to fix it too | 17:26 |
| TheJulia | Agreed, thiagop, any chance you can update your filter to match the above link of sorts, excluding the other vendor drivers so we can see how long repsonses are in? | 17:26 |
| jroll | krtaylor: just curious where the "reports on everything" came from :) | 17:26 |
| krtaylor | jroll, thanks! | 17:26 |
| devananda | jroll: have we stated an expectation that 3rdparty CI test other projects in the ironic group? | 17:26 |
| jroll | devananda: we have not, and I don't expect to need that | 17:27 |
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| krtaylor | jroll, like I said at summit, most of the info was from either the etherpad, infra account info, etc | 17:27 |
| devananda | eg, ironic-lib | 17:27 |
| jroll | devananda: perhaps make it optional if they're concerned about it breaking | 17:27 |
| thiagop | TheJulia: I can, yes | 17:27 |
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| jroll | devananda: we have depends-on if we as developers think a patch may be problematic | 17:27 |
| TheJulia | thiagop: That would be awesome :) | 17:27 |
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| thiagop | TheJulia: but the average time for builds on the current CI is 80min | 17:28 |
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| thiagop | TheJulia: on the new CI, using nodepool, I dropped it to 36min so far | 17:28 |
| jroll | O_o | 17:28 |
| jroll | ah, that sounds better | 17:29 |
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| TheJulia | oh that does sound far better | 17:29 |
| devananda | thiagop: nice! | 17:29 |
| thiagop | but it's not stable yet... | 17:29 |
| thiagop | working on it today/tomorrow | 17:29 |
| * krtaylor needs to see if the CI dashboard will show some historical info to make a determination which teams really have CI | 17:29 | |
| jroll | what was the old CI using, just curious? | 17:30 |
| thiagop | jroll: it was building devstack on a KVM in a custom script | 17:30 |
| jroll | ah | 17:30 |
| thiagop | nodepool caching really REALLY helps to cut time | 17:30 |
| jroll | yep | 17:30 |
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| krtaylor | thiagop, mmedvede from my team has some really good optimization experience | 17:31 |
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| krtaylor | so did we get to a conclusion on CI topics? | 17:32 |
| thiagop | krtaylor: I'll talk to him/her as soon as my tests are passing. Thanks! | 17:32 |
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| krtaylor | thiagop, sure np, he now runs the third party CI working group meetings | 17:32 |
| jroll | well, conclusions I've seen: 1) follow the guidelines, 2) myself or kurt need to update the wiki thing | 17:33 |
| rloo | if most vendors have same issues wrt optimization, would it help to have some documentation about best practise or whatever? | 17:33 |
| watanabe_isao | thiagop, what CI cloud are you using for your nodepool, please? KVM? | 17:33 |
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| krtaylor | rloo, I don't see why not, that makes sense | 17:33 |
| krtaylor | mjturek1, ^^^ | 17:34 |
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| krtaylor | I think that is an area that we can share our experience and at least start docs for ironic CI | 17:35 |
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| jroll | ++ | 17:35 |
| krtaylor | so lets move on | 17:35 |
| thiagop | watanabe_isao: the nodepool is in our internal cloud of the lab | 17:35 |
| krtaylor | #topic General QA | 17:35 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "General QA (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:35 | |
| thiagop | krtaylor: sure thing | 17:35 |
| krtaylor | other topics? | 17:35 |
| * krtaylor thinks we should combine general and open topics in future meetings | 17:36 | |
| jroll | +1 | 17:36 |
| watanabe_isao | +1 | 17:36 |
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| krtaylor | well then, lets open the floor to open discussion | 17:36 |
| rloo | so remind me, what's the purpose of https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Ironic/Drivers | 17:36 |
| krtaylor | #topic Open Discussion | 17:37 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: ironic_qa)" | 17:37 | |
| rloo | vs the marketplace one vs there is some other list of drivers | 17:37 |
| krtaylor | rloo, not much, and the info there is old | 17:37 |
| devananda | rloo: some of the historical data on the wiki should, IMO, be removed | 17:37 |
| * jroll doesn't like wikis either | 17:37 | |
| krtaylor | rloo, I was using it as a place to create a table (because no etherpad tables) | 17:37 |
| rloo | so let's decide/describe what is in each page, so we don't duplicate and whatever. | 17:37 |
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| thiagop | or eliminate some maybe :) | 17:38 |
| devananda | krtaylor: the last table on the wiki looks like where you're tracking that status, yes? | 17:38 |
| krtaylor | but that is true for a lot of our wiki sub pages | 17:38 |
| thiagop | consolidate information... | 17:38 |
| krtaylor | devananda, yes | 17:38 |
| krtaylor | wiki cleanup - maybe a good workday kinda activity | 17:38 |
| devananda | let's remove the rest of the data on that page, replacing with a link to stackalytics drivers page and some info on process to update it ? | 17:39 |
| rloo | krtaylor: even after cleaning up the wiki, is the wiki meant to be kept up-to-date, and if so, who keeps it up-to-date? | 17:39 |
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| krtaylor | devananda, I'd second that | 17:39 |
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| rloo | or do as devananda suggests ) | 17:40 |
| krtaylor | devananda, that info is next to the table too | 17:40 |
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| devananda | and at the end of Newton, let's remove that table, too | 17:40 |
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| krtaylor | yes | 17:40 |
| krtaylor | then just CI docs | 17:40 |
| krtaylor | then we get a gerrit trail for changes | 17:40 |
| krtaylor | and reviews, etc | 17:41 |
| devananda | yup | 17:41 |
| jroll | yay peer review | 17:41 |
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| krtaylor | so, do we need to revisit grenade/rolling upgrades discussion? | 17:41 |
| devananda | I'd be in favor of basically ceasing to use the wiki as much as possible, especially for documentation | 17:41 |
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| jroll | devananda: ++ | 17:42 |
| krtaylor | ++ | 17:42 |
| devananda | for tracking things like krtaylor has been doing, it's a little better than an etherpad, but not much | 17:42 |
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| devananda | krtaylor: would you like to do the honors of trimming that page down? :) | 17:42 |
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| krtaylor | there is a table plugin for etherpads :) | 17:43 |
| devananda | krtaylor: there is?! | 17:43 |
| krtaylor | devananda, sure and yes | 17:43 |
| krtaylor | we use the etherpad table plugin internally | 17:43 |
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| devananda | mmmmmm. I need to find that ... | 17:43 |
| devananda | anyway :) | 17:43 |
| krtaylor | hm, maybe an upgrade to infro etherpad is in order | 17:44 |
| devananda | rolling upgrades | 17:44 |
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| devananda | jroll: we've talked about the different combinatorial sets of upgrade testing we want, eg. in the summit 'pad | 17:44 |
| thiagop | lol | 17:44 |
| jroll | mhm | 17:44 |
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| devananda | I think it'd be helpfu, when folks say 'partial upgrades', to specify which one | 17:46 |
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| jroll | well, so grenade-partial has historically always meant "partial upgrade of the service under test" | 17:46 |
| jroll | so I prefer to keep that meaning | 17:47 |
| devananda | fair 'nuf | 17:47 |
| jroll | no projects in openstack currently test "full upgrade of a single service in the cloud" | 17:47 |
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| devananda | I'm pretty sure I recall that, when ironic was going through graduation process, we were required to have an "upgrade ironic before nova" test | 17:47 |
| jroll | so I'm not really concerned with testing that (yet) | 17:47 |
| devananda | so we did, at one point | 17:47 |
| jroll | interesting | 17:48 |
| jroll | I'd be curious if nova folks still care about that | 17:48 |
| devananda | thus my ongoing confusion when folks talk about it as though it never was | 17:48 |
| devananda | me too :) | 17:48 |
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| jroll | I don't remember that fwiw | 17:48 |
| devananda | i'll dig around for a second ... | 17:49 |
| rloo | devananda: if we had that test, what happened to it? | 17:49 |
| rloo | devananda: or do you mean, they wanted that test, but we didn't get it done. is that what nova keeps asking us for? | 17:50 |
| jroll | rloo: if it's grenade-partial-ironic, then it sat not working for the last two years | 17:50 |
| jroll | nova keeps asking us for tempest-full | 17:50 |
| jroll | (as they should) | 17:50 |
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| rloo | ironic is a teenager :D | 17:50 |
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| krtaylor | hehheh | 17:50 |
| devananda | jroll: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/111859/ | 17:51 |
| devananda | jroll: yea, grenade-sideways | 17:51 |
| jroll | devananda: oh, that, that was for the migration from nova-bm though | 17:51 |
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| devananda | right | 17:51 |
| devananda | so it was :) | 17:51 |
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| devananda | Ah. so we never had that after the nova-bm migration | 17:52 |
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| devananda | never mind then :) | 17:52 |
| jroll | right, that was a one time thing | 17:52 |
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| jroll | so idk, I think ironic vN with nova vN-1 is a good thing to test, but let's take one thing at a time and get rolling upgrades working | 17:53 |
| jroll | I *think* that will actually test that, too | 17:53 |
| devananda | jroll: agreed | 17:53 |
| jroll | well, not quite, meh | 17:53 |
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| rloo | so it would be good if someone would write down what grenade-partial means/types of tests it will include, etc. | 17:54 |
| jroll | we could add a "finish the ironic upgrade" step | 17:54 |
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| devananda | jroll: ++ | 17:54 |
| jroll | rloo: it will be ==grenade, but only upgrade ironic-conductor | 17:54 |
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| rloo | QA folks, is there documentation somewhere about the types of tests that ironic has? | 17:54 |
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| krtaylor | no that I'm aware of | 17:55 |
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| * krtaylor scribbles down a note | 17:55 | |
| krtaylor | ok, feels like this is winding down, maybe we continue this in -ironic? | 17:56 |
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| jroll | wfm | 17:56 |
| krtaylor | anything else? | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | Thanks everyone | 17:57 |
| rloo | thx krtaylor | 17:57 |
| krtaylor | #endmeeting | 17:57 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 17:57 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 17:57:49 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 17:57 |
| jroll | thanks | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2016/ironic_qa.2016-05-25-17.01.html | 17:57 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2016/ironic_qa.2016-05-25-17.01.txt | 17:57 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/ironic_qa/2016/ironic_qa.2016-05-25-17.01.log.html | 17:57 |
| devananda | thanks! | 17:57 |
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| Sam-I-Am | howdy | 19:00 |
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| ShillaSaebi | hello | 19:00 |
| strigazi | hi | 19:00 |
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| Sam-I-Am | seems like the usual crowd | 19:01 |
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| ShillaSaebi | #startmeeting docteam | 19:01 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 19:01:58 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is ShillaSaebi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 19:02 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 19:02 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:02 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'docteam' | 19:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | hello everyone | 19:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | who do we have here for the docs meeting? | 19:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | roll call! | 19:02 |
| Sam-I-Am | hi | 19:02 |
| strigazi | Spyros Trigazis (magnum) | 19:02 |
| ShillaSaebi | hola! | 19:02 |
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| ShillaSaebi | just the 3 of us? | 19:03 |
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| strigazi | think so | 19:03 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 19:03 |
| ShillaSaebi | well then | 19:03 |
| ShillaSaebi | guess we can go ahead and get started | 19:03 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yep | 19:03 |
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| ShillaSaebi | #topic Action items from the last meeting | 19:04 |
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| *** openstack changes topic to "Action items from the last meeting (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:04 | |
| ShillaSaebi | none | 19:04 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well, i was supposed to write up an email about lack of dev contributions to docs | 19:05 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic Specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z | 19:05 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Specs in review #link https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+project:openstack/docs-specs,n,z (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:05 | |
| Sam-I-Am | lana sort of opened that can of worms in her weekly docs e-mail, but no one responded to it | 19:05 |
| ShillaSaebi | "Sam-I-Am to start thread on dev doc contributions" | 19:05 |
| ShillaSaebi | yeah i figured that it went out | 19:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | also no further replies to my original email to the dev list | 19:05 |
| ShillaSaebi | :O | 19:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | so i'm guessing no one really cares | 19:05 |
| Sam-I-Am | which i dont like, but it is what it is | 19:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | sort of tells me we need more active recruiting of devs from each project | 19:06 |
| ShillaSaebi | yeah | 19:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | they need to learn from magnum :) | 19:06 |
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| strigazi | :) | 19:06 |
| ShillaSaebi | yep | 19:06 |
| ShillaSaebi | hehe | 19:06 |
| Sam-I-Am | its really nice to have someone here from a project | 19:07 |
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| ShillaSaebi | let me look at the APAC meeting log | 19:07 |
| ShillaSaebi | and see if maybe we have more join there? | 19:07 |
| Sam-I-Am | sure, but its usually quiet | 19:07 |
| strigazi | It was like 15 mins | 19:07 |
| strigazi | 3 or 4 people | 19:07 |
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| ShillaSaebi | loquacities, JRobinson__ , katomo, rstarmer | 19:08 |
| strigazi | I checked the log last week | 19:08 |
| ShillaSaebi | yeah so 4 peeps | 19:08 |
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| ShillaSaebi | alright well what are our next steps | 19:08 |
| strigazi | I have some questions | 19:09 |
| ShillaSaebi | shoot | 19:09 |
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| Sam-I-Am | well... | 19:09 |
| strigazi | A team member of magnum needs to document magnum's api | 19:09 |
| strigazi | We have this: http://docs.openstack.org/cli-reference/magnum.html | 19:09 |
| Sam-I-Am | i think my new e-mail idea changes to us getting more active recruiting rather than hoping people show up | 19:10 |
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| ShillaSaebi | ok | 19:10 |
| strigazi | I don't know in which repo this resided | 19:10 |
| strigazi | resides | 19:10 |
| strigazi | is it a repo from doc-team? | 19:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | the api is sort of moving | 19:11 |
| ShillaSaebi | oh yeah | 19:11 |
| Sam-I-Am | api docs, rather | 19:11 |
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| ShillaSaebi | #link https://github.com/openstack/openstack-manuals | 19:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | the cli-reference is different from the api | 19:12 |
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| Sam-I-Am | which are we talking about? | 19:12 |
| strigazi | let me check | 19:12 |
| strigazi | api | 19:13 |
| ShillaSaebi | should be in cli-reference right? | 19:13 |
| strigazi | oh he wants to do both :) | 19:13 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 19:14 |
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| strigazi | both must be pushed on openstack-manuals? | 19:14 |
| Sam-I-Am | it seems like we're moving api docs into project trpos | 19:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | repos | 19:15 |
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| Sam-I-Am | strigazi: i suggest you read existing posts about api on the docs mailing list, or post to it about how to try the new api docs mechanism | 19:15 |
| Sam-I-Am | but iirc, they're moving into the repos | 19:15 |
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| strigazi | similar to install-guide I guess | 19:15 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yes, similar to the install guide | 19:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | but probably a bit easier to coordinate among projects | 19:16 |
| Sam-I-Am | mailing list if definitely your best shot | 19:16 |
| strigazi | ok | 19:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | +1 | 19:17 |
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| Sam-I-Am | i know anne is looking for more people willing to try it | 19:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic Speciality teams | 19:17 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Speciality teams (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:17 | |
| ShillaSaebi | #link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/Speciality_Team_Reports | 19:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | check out the reports from last week | 19:17 |
| ShillaSaebi | for updates on whats going on | 19:17 |
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| strigazi | cool, thanks | 19:18 |
| strigazi | I'm writing magnum's install-guide as it's described in the recent spec | 19:20 |
| strigazi | Additionally | 19:20 |
| Sam-I-Am | hows it working? | 19:20 |
| strigazi | I'm adding a guide from source | 19:20 |
| strigazi | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/319399/ | 19:20 |
| strigazi | If you have time, have a look | 19:21 |
| ShillaSaebi | cool, ill take a look | 19:21 |
| ShillaSaebi | thanks strigazi | 19:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | oh, virtualenvs, thats cool. | 19:21 |
| Sam-I-Am | hopefully the other projects do something similar | 19:22 |
| strigazi | And I added init scripts and systemd units | 19:22 |
| strigazi | in an examples dir | 19:22 |
| Sam-I-Am | yeah, thats also cool. i think we need templates for those sorts of things. | 19:22 |
| strigazi | There is an install guide cookiecutter template | 19:22 |
| strigazi | but for packaged installations | 19:23 |
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| Sam-I-Am | more source = better | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | especially since most projects dont have packages | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | i've always wanted the install guide to support source, but it is more steps that go outside of most people's comfort zones | 19:23 |
| Sam-I-Am | most new users arent devs | 19:23 |
| strigazi | Even if there are packages many people build their own | 19:24 |
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| Sam-I-Am | yeah | 19:24 |
| strigazi | ok, I don't know if they are many, but we do | 19:24 |
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| strigazi | For the old install-guide, now moved, I think I'll finish it this or next week | 19:26 |
| strigazi | It took me some time | 19:26 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ok | 19:27 |
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| Sam-I-Am | ShillaSaebi: anything else? | 19:29 |
| ShillaSaebi | cool | 19:29 |
| ShillaSaebi | thanks strigazi | 19:29 |
| ShillaSaebi | #info Install Guide: meeting has been rebooted: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/#Documentation_Install_Team_Meeting | 19:29 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic Countdown to release: #link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20161006T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Newton+Launch+Date&font=slab | 19:29 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "Countdown to release: #link http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/launch?iso=20161006T00&p0=1440&msg=OpenStack+Newton+Launch+Date&font=slab (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:29 | |
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| ShillaSaebi | and the Newton deliverables are accessible via this #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Documentation/NewtonDeliverables | 19:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | thats really all I got for today | 19:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | #topic open discussion | 19:30 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: docteam)" | 19:30 | |
| ShillaSaebi | anyone have anything they want to bring up? | 19:30 |
| strigazi | I'm good | 19:30 |
| ShillaSaebi | ok | 19:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | thank you all for joining | 19:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | have a great rest of the week | 19:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | see you all in 2 weeks hopefully | 19:31 |
| ShillaSaebi | #endmeeting | 19:31 |
| Sam-I-Am | thanks | 19:31 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 19:31 | |
| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 19:31:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2016/docteam.2016-05-25-19.01.html | 19:31 |
| strigazi | bye | 19:31 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2016/docteam.2016-05-25-19.01.txt | 19:31 |
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| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/docteam/2016/docteam.2016-05-25-19.01.log.html | 19:31 |
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| notmyname | swift team meeting time | 21:00 |
| notmyname | #startmeeting swift | 21:00 |
| openstack | Meeting started Wed May 25 21:00:09 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is notmyname. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 21:00 |
| openstack | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 21:00 |
| *** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:00 | |
| openstack | The meeting name has been set to 'swift' | 21:00 |
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| notmyname | hello, everyone. who's here for the swift team meeting? | 21:00 |
| clayg | LET'S DO THIS! | 21:00 |
| mattoliverau | o/ | 21:00 |
| dmorita_ | o/ | 21:00 |
| hurricanerix | \o/ | 21:00 |
| cschwede | o/ | 21:00 |
| jrichli | me | 21:00 |
| hosanai_ | o/ | 21:00 |
| timburke | o/ | 21:00 |
| tdasilva | hello | 21:00 |
| cutforth | o/ | 21:00 |
| bkeller` | o/ | 21:00 |
| kota_ | o/ | 21:01 |
| acoles | here | 21:01 |
| notmyname | all right | 21:01 |
| notmyname | agenda is at | 21:01 |
| notmyname | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Swift | 21:01 |
| notmyname | a few things to go over this week | 21:01 |
| notmyname | #topic crypto update | 21:01 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "crypto update (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:01 | |
| notmyname | jrichli: acoles: where are we this week? | 21:02 |
| notmyname | ready to get a review branch to master yet? :-)( | 21:02 |
| jrichli | we keep finding more to do :-) | 21:02 |
| acoles | notmyname: well i keep moving cards on the trello board | 21:02 |
| acoles | yeah, then more appear! | 21:02 |
| notmyname | #link https://trello.com/b/63l5zQhq/swift-encryption | 21:02 |
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| acoles | but we are getting close, I hope | 21:02 |
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| notmyname | https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews is up to date with the crypto patches needing review? I still see some listed that were there last week | 21:03 |
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| acoles | been struggling to merge master to feature/crypto this week, hopefully we have nailed that as an other-requirements.txt issue | 21:03 |
| notmyname | great. we should know something there as soon as the gate jobs run | 21:03 |
| acoles | notmyname: yes priority reviews is up to date | 21:04 |
| acoles | notmyname: yes some are same as last week | 21:04 |
| notmyname | :-( | 21:04 |
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| jrichli | we got some feedback from one of the cyrptographers we work with: so far so good - small adjustments to make | 21:04 |
| acoles | patch 316924 shouldn't be too hard, requires no knowledge of feature/crypto | 21:04 |
| patchbot | acoles: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/316924/ - swift (feature/crypto) - crypto - make some probe tests compatible with crypto | 21:04 |
| notmyname | jrichli: great | 21:04 |
| notmyname | for everyone, if you're looking for something to review, please start with the stuff on https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Swift/PriorityReviews | 21:05 |
| acoles | notmyname: it does feel like we're getting down to small tweaks (famous last words...) | 21:05 |
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| notmyname | acoles: jrichli: other than those reviews, anything you need from the rest of us? | 21:06 |
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| acoles | reviews would be great, and not just the priority ones | 21:07 |
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| * acoles thanks mahatic and timburke for helping out | 21:07 | |
| timburke | happy to help | 21:08 |
| notmyname | ok. we should all feel appropriately guilty for not reviewing ( mahatic and timburke excluded) | 21:08 |
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| jrichli | +2! and tdasilva | 21:08 |
| jrichli | +2 was for the thanks | 21:08 |
| acoles | hehe +2 that guilt ;) | 21:08 |
| notmyname | jrichli: no, you're trying to lay down the guilt trip, right? | 21:08 |
| * jrichli shakes head | 21:08 | |
| notmyname | thanks for the crypto update and working on it. let's all do better this next week about reviewing the code | 21:09 |
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| notmyname | #topic rolling upgrade tests status update | 21:09 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "rolling upgrade tests status update (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:09 | |
| notmyname | cschwede: are you here? | 21:09 |
| cschwede | sure! | 21:09 |
| cschwede | nothing new - still waiting for reviews of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304465/ | 21:09 |
| patchbot | cschwede: patch 304465 - openstack-infra/devstack-gate - Use subnodes for Swift storage nodes in a multinod... | 21:09 |
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| notmyname | and patch 297311 right? | 21:10 |
| patchbot | notmyname: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/297311/ - openstack-infra/devstack-gate - Run swift services on subnode | 21:10 |
| cschwede | no; as commented on that patch this is not required and in fact a different approach | 21:10 |
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| notmyname | ah, ok | 21:11 |
| notmyname | I'll also start trying to bug people about patch 304465 since it's blocking us | 21:11 |
| patchbot | notmyname: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304465/ - openstack-infra/devstack-gate - Use subnodes for Swift storage nodes in a multinod... | 21:11 |
| cschwede | thx! | 21:11 |
| notmyname | thanks for the update | 21:11 |
| mattoliverau | I'll poke the infra core on my team. | 21:11 |
| mattoliverau | when he wakes up | 21:12 |
| notmyname | great! | 21:12 |
| notmyname | thanks | 21:12 |
| notmyname | #topic pyeclib/liberasurecode migration updates | 21:12 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "pyeclib/liberasurecode migration updates (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:12 | |
| notmyname | tdasilva: what's up with these? | 21:12 |
| tdasilva | they've been moved to openstack domain: https://github.com/openstack/pyeclib | 21:12 |
| tdasilva | but we are also waiting on a patch to add gate jobs | 21:12 |
| tdasilva | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317672/ | 21:12 |
| patchbot | tdasilva: patch 317672 - openstack-infra/project-config - add python jobs to pyeclib project | 21:12 |
| notmyname | do they currently have the noop gate? | 21:12 |
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| tdasilva | correct | 21:13 |
| notmyname | and can they accept patches right now? ie new code goes there instead of bitbucket? | 21:13 |
| tdasilva | yes | 21:13 |
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| notmyname | has there been any update on the bitbucket side to point people to the openstack repo? | 21:13 |
| tdasilva | but we would have to run tests on our machines | 21:13 |
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| notmyname | we should anyway ;-) | 21:14 |
| tdasilva | no, I can work with Tushar on that | 21:14 |
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| notmyname | ok, thanks | 21:14 |
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| tdasilva | sorry, I meant, we would have to rely just on that in order to merge, as opposed to having jobs at the gate... | 21:14 |
| notmyname | so it seems like we're pretty much ready to go on those, and the final cleanup work is to get the gate stuff set up | 21:14 |
| notmyname | thanks | 21:14 |
| tdasilva | right | 21:14 |
| notmyname | right :-) | 21:14 |
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| clayg | right | 21:14 |
| tdasilva | notmyname, notmyname: should we try to do a "small" release just to test that?? | 21:15 |
| notmyname | clayg was looking for a release there, I think, so we shoudl probably tag one with the bug fix and call it good! | 21:15 |
| notmyname | yeah | 21:15 |
| tdasilva | ok | 21:15 |
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| tdasilva | I'll work with clayg to see what he would like on that release | 21:16 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: clayg: let's chat after the meeting about hwo to do a release and what needs to be in it | 21:16 |
| tdasilva | ok | 21:16 |
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| tdasilva | sorry, ok let's talk after the meeting, but not immediately after ;) | 21:16 |
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| notmyname | ok | 21:16 |
| notmyname | #topic symlinks | 21:16 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "symlinks (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:16 | |
| notmyname | tdasilva: you're still up. what's up with symlinks (I think you added this one to the agenda) | 21:17 |
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| tdasilva | I just would like to ask if thereś anybody working on symlinks? I'd like to start contributing to it, but I don't want to step on someone's toes | 21:17 |
| tdasilva | so I thought I'd ask first.. | 21:17 |
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| notmyname | in Austin, jrichli stepped up to be the point person for it | 21:18 |
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| notmyname | and of course m_kazuhiro has done a lot of thinking (and code?) for it | 21:18 |
| jrichli | tdasilva and I have had a few private chats | 21:18 |
| tdasilva | ok...so I'll keep working with jrichli on that... | 21:19 |
| acoles | tdasilva: last time we discussed it here there seemed to be more clarity needed about what use case(s) were to be addressed, did we get any further with that? | 21:19 |
| notmyname | public as possible :-) | 21:19 |
| tdasilva | and m_kazuhiro... | 21:19 |
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| jrichli | I tried to start listing the scenarios that need to be designed for the current POST strategy: but i need lots of help! | 21:19 |
| jrichli | thats on the etherpad now | 21:19 |
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| tdasilva | right...I've been doing some thinking on the POST issue, but it's probably a good idea to focus on the use cases first | 21:20 |
| jrichli | tdasilva has been working on the impl that is in review. BTW - that should proably be a WIP | 21:20 |
| tdasilva | yeah, I marked that as a WIP... | 21:20 |
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| acoles | btw, fast-post functional test is now *voting* in the gate ;) | 21:21 |
| notmyname | would anyone like to work with jrichli and tdasilva on identifying those POST issues? | 21:21 |
| notmyname | acoles: yay | 21:21 |
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| acoles | notmyname: I've thought a lot about the POST issues but I cannot commit time until we finish encryption | 21:21 |
| clayg | acoles: wtg fast-post! | 21:21 |
| notmyname | acoles: sounds reasonable :-) | 21:22 |
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| notmyname | and yeah, I think the symlink stuff is an "after crypto" priority overall | 21:22 |
| tdasilva | acoles: I've been trying to write some stuff up and post it on the etherped. hopefully at some point we can get your feedback... | 21:22 |
| tdasilva | notmyname: right, agreed | 21:23 |
| notmyname | since it's written down, that's good. even if we don't get to it for a few more weeks, it's still something that we should be able to pick up quickly | 21:23 |
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| notmyname | tdasilva: anything else on symlinks for this meeting? | 21:23 |
| mattoliverau | I'm happy to think POST issues :) | 21:23 |
| tdasilva | is torgomatic still working on it? | 21:23 |
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| mattoliverau | sorry looks like internet is laggy | 21:24 |
| tdasilva | he wrote the inital spec, not sure if he was still thinking about it | 21:24 |
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| notmyname | tdasilva: not sure if he's here. but no, not really, AFAIK | 21:24 |
| torgomatic | let's see here... | 21:24 |
| tdasilva | mattoliverau: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/swift_symlinks | 21:24 |
| torgomatic | "it has not been a priority recently" | 21:24 |
| torgomatic | how'd I do? ;) | 21:24 |
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| tdasilva | torgomatic: hehe, ok, thanks! | 21:25 |
| notmyname | ok, next topic | 21:25 |
| notmyname | #topic bugs from translations | 21:25 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "bugs from translations (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:25 | |
| notmyname | this one is interesting | 21:25 |
| clayg | heh | 21:25 |
| clayg | subjective | 21:25 |
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| notmyname | acoles: you put it on the agenda. want to give an overview? | 21:26 |
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| notmyname | https://bugs.launchpad.net/swift/+bug/1580678 | 21:26 |
| openstack | Launchpad bug 1580678 in OpenStack Object Storage (swift) "UnicodeDecodeError when rebalancing a ring" [Undecided,New] | 21:26 |
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| notmyname | not sure if I'm lagging or if acoles might be | 21:27 |
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| acoles | oh yes, I added this last week, the bug arises when a french locale is used and the translation has non-ascii characters, that causes a UnicodeError in our logging | 21:28 |
| * acoles was typing into wrong window! | 21:28 | |
| notmyname | heh | 21:28 |
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| acoles | just a question for the collective wisdom - any ideas on how we can test to prevent bugs creeping in with translations? anyone have any experience of that kind of test job? | 21:28 |
| mattoliverau | unicode errors aren't funny notmyname :P | 21:28 |
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| clayg | acoles: I think the best solution is to stop wrapping strings in _() | 21:29 |
| notmyname | they're fünny | 21:29 |
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| acoles | I suspect it's not confined to the french locale, in case anyone thinks I am picking on one nation :) | 21:29 |
| acoles | clayg: right! | 21:29 |
| notmyname | something like a job that runs tests in a different locale? | 21:29 |
| clayg | timburke: you write it up and acoles and I will +2 it | 21:30 |
| cschwede | maybe adding one test-run in the gte with a different locale set? | 21:30 |
| notmyname | yeah, not translating the strings is one way to stop those errors... | 21:30 |
| clayg | cschwede: if I change my local and run tests do they fail currently? | 21:30 |
| notmyname | but I kinda think we probably need to do both | 21:30 |
| acoles | or only allowing one language in a project ?? :P | 21:30 |
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| cschwede | clayg: iirc, yes (but it depends on the locale) | 21:30 |
| torgomatic | yeah, testing with a non-english locale shouldn’t be too bad | 21:30 |
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| notmyname | acoles: :-) | 21:31 |
| cschwede | while thinking about it - we would need to test all translated locales; some strings are translated in one locale, but not in others… | 21:31 |
| acoles | cschwede: so is that something that can be configured in devstack, so easy enough to add a gate job? | 21:31 |
| notmyname | can't we pick one of the 10-12 languages that are 100% translated? | 21:31 |
| timburke | if we want an english-like locale that's certain to have lots of non-ascii characters in every translated string, try https://gist.github.com/tipabu/8b627bf99509188e274ede3978bd1149 | 21:31 |
| acoles | cschwede: yep, that's the problem, but a sample test would smoke out some bugs | 21:32 |
| tdasilva | some other project must have run into this before... | 21:32 |
| clayg | timburke: that script needs a docstring or something | 21:32 |
| timburke | all my scripts need docstrings :P | 21:32 |
| cschwede | acoles: i didn’t check this so far, but i assume it wouldn’t be too difficult to add it to devstack/devstack-gate | 21:32 |
| notmyname | cschwede: would you have time to look into that this week? | 21:33 |
| cschwede | not sure this week, but next Monday - yes | 21:33 |
| acoles | of course, if we did have such a job, it would frustrate the translators if we didn't then fix the bugs! | 21:33 |
| acoles | but that's better than frustrated ops | 21:33 |
| notmyname | cschwede: ok, that's fine, I think | 21:33 |
| acoles | cschwede: thank you | 21:33 |
| acoles | cschwede: danke | 21:34 |
| notmyname | great. we'll check back on this one next week | 21:34 |
| notmyname | #topic priority reviews | 21:34 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "priority reviews (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:34 | |
| clayg | i didn't see anything in the bug report that indicated that LC_ALL=C.UTF-8 was an an acceptable work around | 21:34 |
| notmyname | https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317475/ hasn't landed | 21:34 |
| patchbot | notmyname: patch 317475 - swift - Send correct size in POST async update for EC object | 21:34 |
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| notmyname | torgomatic: you've already looked at it once. can you look again to give a review vote? | 21:34 |
| torgomatic | notmyname: sure | 21:35 |
| notmyname | can someone else also volunteer to review that patch please? | 21:35 |
| kota_ | I'm | 21:35 |
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| timburke | i probably will, too. i've looked at a similar change on crypto | 21:36 |
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| notmyname | kota_: timburke: thanks | 21:36 |
| notmyname | I think that once patch 317475 lands I'll be able to tag a release | 21:36 |
| patchbot | notmyname: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/317475/ - swift - Send correct size in POST async update for EC object | 21:36 |
| notmyname | other than the crypto reviews that we already talked about, there's nothing else listed on the priority reviews page | 21:37 |
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| notmyname | anything that should be there? | 21:37 |
| jrichli | notmyname: could we add container-sync? | 21:37 |
| jrichli | patch 210099 and patch 225338 | 21:37 |
| patchbot | jrichli: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/210099/ - swift - Add process level concurrency to container sync | 21:37 |
| patchbot | jrichli: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/225338/ - swift - Add thread level concurrency to container sync | 21:37 |
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| notmyname | hmm...they were there | 21:37 |
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| notmyname | jrichli: yeah, I can add them back | 21:37 |
| jrichli | thx! | 21:38 |
| notmyname | #topic open discussion | 21:38 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: swift)" | 21:38 | |
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| notmyname | anything else to bring up this week? | 21:38 |
| timburke | thanks torgomatic and notmyname for getting patch 311817 in! | 21:38 |
| patchbot | timburke: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/311817/ - swift - Allow concurrent bulk deletes (MERGED) | 21:38 |
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| notmyname | I feel like I should try to give an update on the golang/TC stuff | 21:39 |
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| mattoliverau | notmyname: go ahead | 21:39 |
| notmyname | i'm working on a reply to a couple of emails now, but it's gotten to be a rather confusing conversation | 21:39 |
| notmyname | the discussion has moved way beyond "is a project allowed to use golang" | 21:40 |
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| notmyname | there's a lot more support for "if it's not python, it's not openstack" than I expected | 21:40 |
| notmyname | so one current thread of the conversation is about what that would mean specifically for swift | 21:41 |
| notmyname | and I'm working on that | 21:41 |
| notmyname | another thread of the conversation is "is swift really part of openstack" | 21:42 |
| clayg | lol | 21:42 |
| kota_ | lol | 21:42 |
| notmyname | to be honest, both of those are really stressful and frustrating for me (as anyone who's in the same office as me can attest to) | 21:42 |
| notmyname | i'm working on some replies to those now | 21:42 |
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| notmyname | this morning I got to dig into the annals of history and find the 2-year-old "gap analysis" questions from the TC and the "is swift required" discussions from defcore | 21:43 |
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| notmyname | nothing at all has been decided yet | 21:44 |
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| acoles | notmyname: the TC meeting yesterday seemed to be divided on 'allow no golang' vs 'allow golang with guidelines' - did I understand that they assigned champions to argue each side? | 21:44 |
| notmyname | sort of. personally, I hate that model of discussion. but I've got an email waiting for a reply that's based off of that | 21:45 |
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| redbo | I demand trial by combat | 21:45 |
| notmyname | asking me to describe the technical and community consequences of having swift split into pieces and have external dependencies that aren't in openstack | 21:46 |
| notmyname | frankly I think that's is nearly completely untenable and overall a very very bad idea. so I need to write down all the reasons why | 21:46 |
| mattoliverau | notmyname: wow, I think we all owe you a beer or something stronger at the mid-cycle! Thanks for all your effort on this. | 21:46 |
| torgomatic | it's like golang has cooties | 21:47 |
| clayg | srly, so good this is your job and like... not anyone else's in this channel | 21:47 |
| dfg_ | get him drunk and then get him to write some emails to openstack TC. great idea :) | 21:47 |
| clayg | i can not imagine having enough %^&s to give | 21:47 |
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| acoles | torgomatic: lurgi in my locale | 21:48 |
| clayg | i'm all like "yeah I don't know what you people are talking about, let's start rebasing a patch chain and see what it looks like" | 21:48 |
| notmyname | us: "hey everyone, we're going to make things faster" tc: "but wait, are you sure you're even a part of openstack?" | 21:48 |
| hurricanerix | notmyname reply with http://www.openstack.org/blog/2010/10/announcing-the-openstack-2010-1-austin-release/ | 21:48 |
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| acoles | notmyname: it's payback for messing with the tables in Austin :) | 21:49 |
| mattoliverau | rofl | 21:49 |
| clayg | at somepoint they'd be like "you can't commit click +A in gerrit anymore" and I'd be like "yeah I don't know what you're talking about - let's just fork to this other github project and get back to work" | 21:49 |
| notmyname | I'll keep everyone updated as the conversations keep going | 21:50 |
| acoles | notmyname: thanks for the update | 21:50 |
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| mattoliverau | +1 | 21:50 |
| notmyname | anything else from anyone? | 21:50 |
| kota_ | +1 | 21:50 |
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| tdasilva | looking forward to your email | 21:51 |
| notmyname | tdasilva: that makes one of us! :-) | 21:51 |
| clayg | lol | 21:51 |
| redbo | as a hedge, I'll register openerstack.org | 21:51 |
| notmyname | lol | 21:51 |
| mattoliverau | redbo: lol | 21:51 |
| torgomatic | stackforgery.com | 21:52 |
| notmyname | thanks everyone for all your work on swift. regardless of openstack mailing list threads, swift's being used all over the world at large scale in production. and that's because of your work. thanks | 21:52 |
| notmyname | #endmeeting | 21:52 |
| *** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings" | 21:52 | |
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| openstack | Meeting ended Wed May 25 21:52:24 2016 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 21:52 |
| openstack | Minutes: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2016/swift.2016-05-25-21.00.html | 21:52 |
| openstack | Minutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2016/swift.2016-05-25-21.00.txt | 21:52 |
| openstack | Log: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/swift/2016/swift.2016-05-25-21.00.log.html | 21:52 |
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| anteaya | notmyname: can you take patchbot with you please? | 21:58 |
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