Tuesday, 2016-10-04

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hongbin#startmeeting zun03:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 03:01:48 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is hongbin. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.03:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.03:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: zun)"03:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'zun'03:01
hongbin#topic Roll Call03:02
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shubhamsShubham Sharma03:02
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"03:06
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 03:06:43 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)03:06
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-10-04-03.01.html03:06
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-10-04-03.01.txt03:06
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/zun/2016/zun.2016-10-04-03.01.log.html03:06
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takashikota_: can we start?08:01
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kota_storlets meeting has started?08:05
kota_waiting takashi...08:07
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takashikota_: sorry. I did't notice that I was disconnected from freenode08:12
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kota_takashi: ok, np08:13
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takashikota_: Let's start08:13
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takashi#startmeeting storlets08:14
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 08:14:00 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is takashi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.08:14
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.08:14
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:14
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'storlets'08:14
kota_takashi: nice08:14
takashikota_: :-)08:14
takashiI updated agenda a little: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Storlets08:14
takashikota_: feel free to add any topics08:15
kota_takashi: tbh, I've been hit another meeting so that i could response with delay08:15
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takashikota_: ok08:15
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takashiCan we proceed base on the agenda?08:16
takashikota_: I think it does not take so mach time, so we can take time about your topic after that08:17
takashiI think08:17
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takashi#topic Design Summit planning08:20
*** openstack changes topic to "Design Summit planning (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:20
takashiI just started to write down my idea about discussion point in design summit, based on eranrom's first draft08:21
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takashikota_: I found that you already added some of your ideas08:21
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kota_takahshi: yea08:21
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takashiwill add mine soon08:22
kota_with quick view, it looks like there are awesome topics08:22
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takashikota_: yes :-)08:22
takashiI think I need to pick up some topics from python storlet related works, and also I think there are something we need to highlight in our design summit08:23
takashiabout big-tent work08:23
kota_thinking of the conflicted session with Swift's, could we move our slotst to sort of Wed?08:24
kota_but basically, Wed is addressed for cross-project work08:24
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takashikota_: maybe08:24
takashikota_: the reason why thursday morning is listed there is that there are available room at that time slot08:25
kota_but if it's difficult to move them to Wed, current schedule looks not so bad because the morning time is for fb of Swift sessions.08:25
kota_if we could address some sessions for implementations (e.g. python work) in the Thu fb, I'm happy because, I have to be abasent in Fri.08:27
takashikota_: agree08:27
takashikota_: Talking about myself, there are still some sessions not scheduled yet, but as far it seems that I'm available at Thursday morning (9:00-9:40) and on Wednesday08:28
kota_ah, you mean, we could make mini-hackathon in Wed with ourselvs.08:29
kota_sounds great08:29
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kota_wrote down at the bottom of etherpad.08:30
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takashi_kota_: sorry. I got disconnected for a while. maybe there are something wrong with the wifi network in my office... :-(08:32
takashi_and back08:32
kota_it looks takashi's line is unstable.08:32
kota_takashi: np08:32
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takashi_kota_: I'll add my available time on the etherpad, as we discussed last week08:33
takashi_but currently Thursday morning and Wednesday seems possible options for us08:34
takashi_kota_: Can we move to the next topic?08:35
takashi_#topic Big tent updates08:36
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takashi#topic Big tent updates08:37
*** openstack changes topic to "Big tent updates (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:37
takashinow it works08:37
kota_no updates from my side, do you have something?08:37
takashikota_: not so big updates08:37
kota_but, I'd like to confirm the remaining tasks, though08:37
takashiabout python packaging, I found some problems caused by updated dependency packages08:38
takashiI still need to find the root cause. Maybe I need to build clean environment to test that08:38
takashikota_: I think the thing should come for next is, bumping up keystone or replace nostests by testr in functest08:40
takashikota_: or... copyright stuff is another possible one08:40
takashiI know eranrom is workin about using testr in functests08:40
takashiabout python storlet works, we currently have awesome doc patch by eranrom08:41
kota_takashi: yey, I've looked at08:42
takashiIt covers all things together with my previous patch. We still have some remaining work items, but that is the last thing we need to release the feature at least in beta status08:42
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kota_takashi: k, thanks.08:43
kota_summrize that, we're now working, docs, packaging for big tent.08:43
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kota_plus testing08:44
takashikota_: yes08:44
takashikota_: I think it is great if we can talk with tc member directly at Barcelona08:44
kota_takashi: nice idea!08:45
takashiwe can check remaining things there.08:45
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kota_ok, will do08:45
takashiIt seems that another project, Tricircle is requresing to have some time for dicsussion with tc members08:45
kota_Is acoles comming?08:45
kota_ok, Barcelona summit seems good place to get face to face conversion with tc08:47
takashikota_: yes. Let's talk about that plan with eranrom later08:47
kota_moving on?08:47
acoleskota_: hello, what happened?08:47
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takashikota_: yes08:47
kota_what's topic on the next?08:48
takashi#topic Release planning08:49
*** openstack changes topic to "Release planning (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:49
takashiI think we don't have so much about this topic08:49
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kota_yes, docs will land soon, and we can cut the release, doesn't it?08:50
takashiwe agreed to include doc patch about python storlet works in the next release, and they are now ready for review (and hopefully ready for landing)08:50
takashikota_: yes08:50
takashiTha's all from my side08:50
takashi#topic Open discussion08:51
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: storlets)"08:51
takashiI think you have some topics, right?08:51
takashikota_: ^^^08:51
kota_i think the logger change is really good one but I didn't get all for that, right now.08:51
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takashikota_: you mean patch 38020708:52
kota_I think, you know my traial and the status, we cannot get the actual log from python storlets if it fails by some reasons.08:52
takashikota_: yes08:52
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kota_I hope it could address A. dump a log correctly, B. we can look at the status in the gerrit log08:53
kota_takashi: Q. does the newest patch set enable that?08:53
kota_we have last 5 minutes :/08:54
takashikota_: Currently the patch can be a help for A, but there are something not covered yet08:54
takashikota_: ok08:54
kota_ok, that means, it's still working.08:54
kota_will look at to help something08:54
takashikota_: It captures stdio/stdout of daemon process, but it assume that the daemon process started properly08:55
takashikota_: I mean, for example No such file case, it generates stdout output before setting that captureing08:55
kota_hopefully, I'd avoid the "logger" command, if possible08:55
kota_though :/08:55
takashikota_: In my first idea, I passed our logger to popen to get rid of logger command08:56
takashikota_: However, after some testing, I noticed that popen requires fd related to that logger, which I still need to thin the way08:56
takashikota_: it tries to get logger.fileno()08:57
takashikota_: Maybe we need to open new pipe, and fork some process listening that fd and record the coming message to the log08:57
kota_takashi: hmm...08:58
kota_anyway, we're running out of time.08:58
kota_will discuss later08:58
takashikota_: ok08:58
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takashifeel free to add your comment on the patch, or catch me at openstack-storlets08:59
kota_takashi: could you please make the end command?08:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"08:59
kota_takashi: sure08:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 08:59:52 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)08:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-10-04-08.14.html08:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-10-04-08.14.txt08:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/storlets/2016/storlets.2016-10-04-08.14.log.html08:59
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takashikota_: I was just searhing the command09:00
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sridhar_ram#startmeeting tacker16:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 16:01:20 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is sridhar_ram. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.16:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.16:01
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*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tacker'16:01
sridhar_ram#topic Roll Call16:01
*** openstack changes topic to "Roll Call (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:01
sridhar_ramwho is here for tacker meeting?16:01
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sridhar_ramvishwanathj: sripriya: diga_ : mgunjan: hi !16:02
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: hi!16:03
sridhar_ramlet's start..16:03
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sridhar_ram#topic Agenda16:03
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sridhar_ram#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Tacker#Meeting_Oct_4th.2C_201616:03
sridhar_ramwe might have some time to discuss other things .. any new topics for agenda?16:04
sridhar_ram#topic Annoucements16:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Annoucements (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:05
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sridhar_ramIn case you haven't seen this vvv16:05
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sridhar_ram#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-October/105019.html16:05
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sridhar_ram#info Sridhar (PTL) will be on medical leave of absence for 4 - 6 weeks, starting Oct 10th16:06
sridhar_rambobh: howdy!16:06
sridhar_ramI'll miss the summit as well :(16:06
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sridhar_ramBut, i know most of the core team members will be there .. i hope it will be business as usual16:07
sridhar_ramI've requested sripriya to be acting PTL in my absence..16:07
sridhar_ramsripriya: thanks for taking this responsibility..16:08
sridhar_ramany questions ?16:08
vishwanathjsridhar_ram will miss you, sripriya, all the best, sure you can do it16:08
dkushwahasridhar_ram, we miss you16:08
sridhar_ramvishwanathj: dkushwaha: thanks16:08
sripriyasridhar_ram: hope you have a speedy recovery, we will keep the ship sailing until you return :-)16:09
sridhar_ramsripriya: thanks.. and i'm sure the ship will continue its journey w/ your stewardship!16:09
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sridhar_ramwe are in this NFV Orchestration journey for a long haul...16:10
sridhar_rammoving on..16:10
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sridhar_ram#topic Barcelona Summit Planning16:10
*** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona Summit Planning (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:10
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sridhar_ram#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-summit16:11
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sridhar_rambobh: I've penciled you in to lead the discussion on NSD + Mistral.. would that work for you?16:12
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sridhar_ramKanagaraj: howdy!16:12
bobhsridhar_ram: yes - should be fine16:12
sridhar_rambobh: thanks!16:12
trozetsridhar_ram: is there going to be a virtual meeting so I can dial in?16:12
sridhar_ramtrozet: we tried it last time, it didn't work as well we hoped it would..16:13
sridhar_ramtrozet: frankly i could make use of it as well :)16:13
Kanagarajsridhar_ram: hi, fine. thanks :) how are you16:13
sridhar_ramtrozet: it is a logistical hassle for the team in the room ..16:14
sridhar_ramsripriya: what do you think ?16:14
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sripriyasridhar_ram: we do not know yet the meeting room setup, so there is no guarantee on that16:15
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sridhar_ramperhaps we can try a "live" etherpad and listen-in only web conference16:15
sripriyasridhar_ram; at the leasr we can try to keep the etherpad as updated as possible withe discussions16:16
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sripriyasridhar_ram: s/leasr/least16:16
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sridhar_ramsripriya: room allocation will happen soon.. cheddar system to populate the session is open now16:16
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sripriyasridhar_ram: okay, whats the cheddar system?16:17
sridhar_ramsripriya: yes, capturing everything in the etherpad is the best way forward...16:17
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sridhar_ramsripriya: it is an online tool to populate design summit agenda .. the details then will show up in the summit schedule16:18
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sridhar_ramsripriya: i'll hook u up w/ that offline16:18
sripriyasridhar_ram: got it16:18
diga_sridhar_ram: sripriya: I also try to follow etherpad but dont know about setup as i am not able to make it for summit16:18
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sridhar_ramdiga_: no worries diga_ .. as you get closer you will hear the etherpads created for the summit16:19
sridhar_rami think we will branch off the main https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-summit16:19
sridhar_ramsripriya: heads up, we also need a cross-project sync with networking-sfc team..16:20
sripriyasridhar_ram: ack, i see that on the summit etherpad schedule16:20
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sridhar_ramwe need to  keep the VNFFG feature healthy with changes coming in that project16:20
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sridhar_ramtrozet: did you hear more on when the network_src_port_id restriction will be removed? That is one item to follow up w/ them16:21
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sripriyasridhar_ram: probably we need to check if n-sfc team members are available around the schedule time?16:21
trozetsridhar_ram: i asked in gerrit, but should follow up with Cathy16:21
trozetsridhar_ram: will work on that16:21
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sridhar_ramtrozet: thanks!16:21
sridhar_ramtrozet: what is the "next" thing to do in the area of VNFFG ?16:22
trozetsridhar_ram: well I would like to get it working with ODL,16:23
sridhar_ramtrozet: sure, that's definitely the top item...16:23
trozetsridhar_ram: so right now just trying to get devstack to work then going to try vishnoianil patch16:23
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sridhar_ramtrozet: sounds good..16:23
trozetsridhar_ram: then I can help get that patch into networking-odl.  After that there are several clean up items to take care of in Tacker code16:23
trozetsridhar_ram: for example we kind of hacked around Tosca to put the 'path' in VNFFGD, we should fix that kind of stuff16:24
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diga_trozet: My setup is ready with ubuntu16.04, let me know if something to test16:25
sridhar_ramtrozet: okay...16:25
sridhar_ramtrozet: dkushwaha: another thing i had in mind was NSD + FFGD in a single TOSCA template16:25
trozetsridhar_ram: yeah that woudl help resolve hte tosca parser issues16:25
sridhar_ramtrozet: may i ask you to list these "items" in the VNFFG section in the https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/tacker-ocata-summit16:25
trozetsridhar_ram: yeah16:26
sridhar_ramtrozet: this will help the team heading to the summit to interact / advise rest of the neutron + sfc team...16:26
sripriyasridhar_ram: trozet: what about the ‘symmetrical’ attribute support?16:26
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trozetsripriya: support for that was just added into networking-sfc, need to follow up16:27
sridhar_rami was planning to send a "state of n-sfc usage in tacker" to armax .. for all his guidance in the last OPNFV Summit @ Germany16:27
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sripriyatrozet: cool16:27
sridhar_ramtrozet: sripriya: please list these items in the summit etherpad..16:27
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sridhar_rambobh: we need a similar interaction with tosca-parser / heat-translator team.. again, is that something you can help facilitate ?16:28
bobhsridhar_ram: yes16:28
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sridhar_ramfor both these cross-project, we can either use one of our design summit slot or join theirs'16:29
sridhar_ramsripriya: bobh: please make the call as you see fit16:29
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bobhsridhar_ram: not sure if tp/ht has any slots - I'll check with spzala16:29
sridhar_rambobh: okay, then feel free to use one of our design summit slots..16:30
spzalabobh: sridhar_ram: on call but getting back to you in few16:30
sridhar_ramspzala: sure..16:30
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sridhar_rambobh: sripriya: spzala: in fact it will be nice to hear the "rest" of the things happening in tp/ht world :)16:31
vishnoianiltrozet, let me know if you need any help with networking-odl driver setup16:31
trozetvishnoianil: yeah will come to you for help16:31
sridhar_rambobh: sripriya: spzala: we should purse offering new tosca "features" available through Tacker..16:32
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spzalasridhar_ram: bobh: if we can use one of tacker design slot (like we did in austin) that would be great16:32
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sridhar_ramspzala: ack..16:32
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sripriyasridhar_ram: yeah, it will be good to integrate these new node types from tacker back to tp/ht projects16:33
sridhar_ramsripriya: +2 .. lock that room after spzala + tp/ht folks show up unless they agree to this ;-)16:34
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spzalaawesome, so if we can have a joint discussion session we seems can cover good lot of cross projects things16:34
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sridhar_ramMoving to another topic of interest ... exploring containerized VNFs / VDUs..16:36
sripriyasridhar_ram: lol :)16:36
sridhar_ramthis keeps coming as a question during Tacker evaluations in PoCs..16:37
spzalasripriya: sounds great, once you can finalize the time/location for the summit discussion please let me know so that can let other folks in team to know about it .. I am sure most of the folks will attend .. and more folks from tp/ht coming to summit this time16:37
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sridhar_ramspzala: great!16:37
* sridhar_ram back to containers..16:37
spzalasridhar_ram: sure and thank you!16:38
sripriyaspzala, nice! ack. will sync up with you on the details16:38
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sridhar_ramI've some thoughts.. but i think we need to first identify user stories / use cases before we "blindly" do that..16:38
spzalasripriya: perfect, thanks!16:38
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sridhar_ramanyone have general thoughts in this area ?16:39
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vishwanathjare there VNF vendors out there that are delivering the network services in containers already?16:40
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sridhar_ramvishwanathj: yes, VNFC s/w is available as a container image.. (i don't have a link handy, will find out)16:41
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sridhar_rami'll create a section in the summit etherpad for the team to capture container use-cases for Tacker16:41
sridhar_ramvishwanathj: IMO we need to explore in two angles ..16:42
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sridhar_ram1) How to support traditional VNFCs available in containerized form factor (imagine docker image instead of classic qcow2)16:43
sridhar_ram2) What are the "Network Services" needs in the world of containers app ecosystems16:43
sripriyasridhar_ram: i think we also need to understand the networking challenges/requirements of these containerized VNFCs…16:44
vishwanathjI see ... good points16:44
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sridhar_ramsripriya: agree.. perhaps (as you had mentioned earlier), we need to look into Kuryr project closely..16:44
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sripriyasridhar_ram: yeah, need to do some homework on that16:45
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vishwanathja useful link to read up on container networking http://thenewstack.io/container-networking-breakdown-explanation-analysis/16:45
diga_sridhar_ram: I work on kuryr, this project will surely help us getting neutron network assigned to container network16:46
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sridhar_ramyes, next few weeks will be good time to do that homework.. and it will be great if the team can write down the user stories (as many meaningful ones as possible) and they we can prioritize and go after the ones that are relative high priority + relatively easier to achieve16:47
sridhar_ramdiga_: cool16:47
sripriyasridhar_ram: sure16:47
sridhar_ramvishwanathj: thanks for the link16:47
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sridhar_ramanything else on this topic of containers for Tacker ?16:48
sridhar_rammoving on..16:48
sridhar_ram#topic NSD16:48
*** openstack changes topic to "NSD (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:48
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: can you give an update ?16:49
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dkushwahasridhar_ram, Regarding mistral workflow, i have commented in https://review.openstack.org/#/c/304667/16:49
dkushwahasridhar_ram, all, please have a look on this16:49
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: thanks16:50
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: btw, please add the Mistral pros & cons directly into the spec write up..16:51
sripriyadkushwaha: the 4th bullet in cons 1) point is what concerns me as well, going back and forth with tacker and mistral for a nsd request16:51
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sripriyadkushwaha: sridhar_ram: also, if we needed to have a dependency workfloow between multiple VNFs, should the control come to Tacker after each dependent step completion?16:52
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: first, those are nice points..16:53
sridhar_ramsripriya: not sure.. again, we need to think a "day in a life" of NSD.. but if i understand the power of mistral many of these back and forth can all be "coded" in the generates mistral workflow16:54
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sridhar_ramquestion is how complex that mistral workflow generation logic going to be...16:54
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sripriyasridhar_ram: right…16:54
sridhar_ramdkushwaha: sripriya: the bigger thing that is missing on the pro side .. once we have mistral in place any workflow / remediation already coded will be in the reach of Tacker16:55
dkushwahasripriya, sridhar_ram as we are going with multiple new features, it might be complex for corner cases16:55
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: thats a concern for me too..16:56
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sridhar_ramI'd go w/ the team's decision here.. but let's use this to take a hard look16:56
sridhar_ramonce we code up NSD directly to tackerclient there is not much incentive to re-write it again using mistral16:57
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sridhar_rambobh: your thoughts will be helpful here .. over next few weeks and in the summit16:58
sridhar_ramalright we are out of time for today16:58
sridhar_ramplease continue to review NSD spec16:58
sridhar_ram#topic Open Discussion16:58
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*** openstack changes topic to "Open Discussion (Meeting topic: tacker)"16:58
dkushwahasridhar_ram, please suggest for approach, so that i can move forward16:59
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sridhar_ramFolks .. i'll be back in few weeks.. will catchup on things in the etherpad...16:59
sridhar_ramsripriya: over to you :)16:59
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sridhar_ramdkushwaha: let the discussion take place in the spec and reach a logical conclusion..17:00
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Kanagarajsridhar_ram: take care of you well !17:00
sridhar_rambye folks17:00
sridhar_ramKanagaraj: thanks17:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 17:00:35 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-10-04-16.01.html17:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-10-04-16.01.txt17:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tacker/2016/tacker.2016-10-04-16.01.log.html17:00
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dragonmasterhello all17:10
dragonmasteris third_party meeting tonight or nextweek ?17:10
ja3dragonmaster, greetings... mtg chair has not arrived.17:10
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ja3...this is the correct slot though.17:11
dragonmasterthanks ja317:11
* dragonmaster resumes lurking17:11
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asselin__ja3 dragonmaster still want to have a meeting?17:30
dragonmasteri just have a few questions17:31
dragonmasterwas pointed to the meeting by #openstack-infra17:31
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dragonmastertrying to setup our own zuul, and was hoping someone could point me in the right way17:32
asselin__#startmeeting thirdparty17:32
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 17:32:41 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is asselin__. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:32
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:32
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: thirdparty)"17:32
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'thirdparty'17:32
asselin__dragonmaster, ask away :)17:32
dragonmasterthanks asselin__17:33
ja3sounds like dragonmaster has q's. I'm on another call now.17:33
dragonmasterso, (1) would we be able to use central auth with zuul / gerrit ?17:33
dragonmasterie - ldap auth17:33
asselin__dragonmaster, gerrit supports ldap auth17:34
asselin__zuul uses ssh public key to talk to gerrit17:34
dragonmasterso, as long as a user exists with that key, it should work17:35
asselin__yes. Are you setting up 3rd party ci? or a separate gerrit/zuul installation?17:35
dragonmasterour own zuul / gerrit stack which will integrate with private gitlab server17:36
dragonmasterci would be either jenkins (i know it was how openstack used to be built)17:37
asselin__#link http://docs.openstack.org/infra/zuul/connections.html#gerrit17:37
dragonmasterbut potentially switch to buildbot17:37
asselin__this is where your configure zuul with the gerrit username and path to public ssh key17:37
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dragonmasterbut , take a step back17:41
dragonmasterfrom. http://docs.openstack.org/infra/zuul/quick-start.html17:41
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dragonmasterpip install zuul doesnt active the webui component from my tests17:41
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asselin__which webui component?17:42
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dragonmasterzuul.openstack.org has the gates displayed there17:43
asselin__look at http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-zuul/tree/templates/zuul.vhost.erb, seems it's on port 8001 ?17:44
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dragonmasterfrom my zuul server (base install of trusty with zuul)17:45
dragonmasterroot@zuul01:~# netstat -ntap | grep -i listen17:45
dragonmastertcp        0      0*               LISTEN      800/mysqld17:45
dragonmastertcp        0      0*               LISTEN      889/memcached17:45
dragonmastertcp        0      0    *               LISTEN      398/sshd17:45
dragonmastertcp        0      0  *               LISTEN      220/gearmand17:45
dragonmastertcp6       0      0 :::22                   :::*                    LISTEN      398/sshd17:45
dragonmastertcp6       0      0 :::4730                 :::*                    LISTEN      220/gearmand17:45
asselin__tcp        0      0  *               LISTEN      13239/python17:47
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asselin__zuul     13239     1  3 Sep28 ?        04:13:53 /usr/bin/python /usr/local/bin/zuul-server17:47
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asselin__but this is an older version of zuul...not sure if that still applies ^^17:48
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dragonmastertaking a quick look, maybe the zuul-server didn’t startup17:48
asselin__how many zuul-server processes are running?17:48
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dragonmasterseems it’s dying, i’ll need to make sure my configs are correct17:49
asselin__use -f to run it in foreground mode17:50
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asselin__sorry, I mean -d17:50
asselin__  -d             do not run as a daemon17:50
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dragonmasteryeah, just did it17:51
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dragonmasterdirectory /var/lib/zuul didnt get created with he install17:52
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dragonmasterroot@zuul01:~# zuul-server -d17:52
dragonmasterTraceback (most recent call last):17:52
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/bin/zuul-server", line 10, in <module>17:52
dragonmaster    sys.exit(main())17:52
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/cmd/server.py", line 239, in main17:52
dragonmaster    server.main()17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/cmd/server.py", line 164, in main17:53
dragonmaster    self.sched = zuul.scheduler.Scheduler(self.config)17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/scheduler.py", line 265, in __init__17:53
dragonmaster    time_dir = self._get_time_database_dir()17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/scheduler.py", line 759, in _get_time_database_dir17:53
dragonmaster    os.mkdir(d)17:53
dragonmasterOSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/var/lib/zuul/times'17:53
dragonmasterTraceback (most recent call last):17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/bin/zuul-server", line 10, in <module>17:53
dragonmaster    sys.exit(main())17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/cmd/server.py", line 239, in main17:53
dragonmaster    server.main()17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/cmd/server.py", line 159, in main17:53
dragonmaster    self.start_gear_server()17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/zuul/cmd/server.py", line 132, in start_gear_server17:53
asselin__dragonmaster, use http://paste.openstack.org/  next time ^^17:53
dragonmaster    statsd_prefix='zuul.geard')17:53
dragonmaster  File "/usr/local/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/gear/__init__.py", line 2514, in __init__17:53
dragonmaster    raise Exception("Could not open socket")17:53
dragonmasterException: Could not open socket17:53
dragonmasterwill do17:53
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asselin__dragonmaster, I wonder if that's hard-coded in the code or a default that you need to overide in a conf file?17:54
asselin__dragonmaster, either way, most folks install it using puppet: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-zuul/17:54
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asselin__or http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack-infra/puppet-openstackci/tree/manifests/zuul_scheduler.pp17:55
dragonmasterwe’ve addoped ansible for our openstack deployments17:55
dragonmasterbut will definately look at the puppet17:55
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dragonmastertry reverse engineer and contribute back17:56
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asselin__try this then: http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/ansible-role-zuul/17:57
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asselin__never used it, but I knew Paul Belanger was working it a while back...didn't realize until now that it's  official17:58
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asselin__dragonmaster, we have about 2 minutes left. We can continue in #openstack-infra if you like.17:59
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dragonmasterthanks asselin__17:59
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"17:59
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 17:59:27 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)17:59
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/thirdparty/2016/thirdparty.2016-10-04-17.32.html17:59
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/thirdparty/2016/thirdparty.2016-10-04-17.32.txt17:59
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/thirdparty/2016/thirdparty.2016-10-04-17.32.log.html17:59
stevemar#startmeeting keystone17:59
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 17:59:40 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is stevemar. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.17:59
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.17:59
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: keystone)"17:59
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'keystone'17:59
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ayoung__Cannot connect via normal Chat client18:00
ayoung__using Webchat18:00
dstanekayoung__: ouch18:01
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stevemarayoung__: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯18:02
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ayoungAnd now I can!18:02
stevemarlet's get the show on the road!18:02
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stevemarhopefully this goes better than last week....18:02
* stevemar glares at freenode18:02
rodrigodsstevemar, ++18:03
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stevemarping ajayaa, amakarov, ayoung, breton, browne, crinkle, claudiub, davechen, david8hu, dolphm, dstanek, edmondsw, gagehugo, gyee, henrynash, hogepodge, htruta, jamielennox, jaugustine, joesavak, jorge_munoz, knikolla, lbragstad, MaxPC, morgan, nishaYadav, nkinder, notmorgan, raildo, rodrigods, rderose, roxanaghe, samleon, samueldmq, shaleh, stevemar, tsymanczyk, topol, vivekd, wanghong, xek18:03
stevemarthat's twice i've forgotten to do that18:03
* morgan ducks out to head out to the airport18:03
stevemarmorgan: safe travels bug18:03
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dolphmstevemar: how rude18:03
stevemardolphm: sorry :(18:03
stevemardolphm: i would think you know the time of this meeting by now18:04
dolphmstevemar: daylight savings time makes it hard18:04
stevemarsince you've been coming to it for 4 years and chaired it for 1.518:04
dstanekstevemar: when i'm focused on working i often lose track of what time it is18:04
stevemardstanek: excuses, excuses18:04
ayounglet's do this18:05
stevemaragenda: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-weekly-meeting18:05
stevemarayoung: ++18:05
stevemar#topic Newton status18:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Newton status (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:05
stevemarexpect a final release this week based on RC218:05
stevemardhellmann will be released all the projects this week, i assume today or tomorrow18:05
stevemari haven't heard of anything major, and we're pretty much out of time, so... yeah :)18:06
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stevemar#topic Fill in all the etherpads18:06
*** openstack changes topic to "Fill in all the etherpads (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:06
stevemaranother reminder for this, sorry18:07
stevemarRetrospective https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-newton-retrospective18:07
stevemarSummit discussion ideas: https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/keystone-ocata-summit-brainstorm18:07
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stevemari'll be making the design session schedule at EOW, so make sure you include something you want to talk about in the etherpad18:07
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* stevemar waves at topol18:07
stevemarNow on to the fun stuff18:08
stevemar#topic Triage bug 163025918:08
*** openstack changes topic to "Triage bug 1630259 (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:08
openstackbug 1630259 in OpenStack Identity (keystone) "Rolling upgrade does not work well in Newton release" [Undecided,New] https://launchpad.net/bugs/163025918:08
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stevemarThis appeared yesterday, its related to upgrading to newton, so kinda critical. Does anyone have time to triage / verify it?18:08
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stevemarthis happened this morning*18:08
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lbragstadI can give it a shot18:09
stevemarcrinkle: it reminds me of the bug you fixed earlier, where domain_id was causing issues with the cache and upgrades18:09
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stevemarit definitely seems like a data model problem -- the good news is once all nodes were upgraded to newton the problem no longer appears18:10
stevemarso it's definitely something we should backport18:10
stevemarlbragstad: thanks for volunteering18:10
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stevemarif anyone else is intereted in helping out, poke lbragstad18:11
stevemar#topic Address skipped tests18:11
*** openstack changes topic to "Address skipped tests (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:11
stevemar1493 out of 6500 tests are skipped, this seems high18:11
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stevemarlike, really high18:12
bknudsonthese are typically because something isn't supported by LDAP18:12
stevemari know a bunch are LDAP related, but still...18:12
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rodrigodsbknudson, ++18:12
stevemaranyone want to do some sort of analysis here?18:12
knikollaI'm in charge of removing ldap write support, so i'm already in the area for this thing18:12
knikollai'll look18:13
dolphmdo we know it's ldap related, or is that an assumption?18:13
stevemarknikolla: makes sense to me18:13
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dolphmit could be (for example) all the "opportunistic" tests being skipped18:13
stevemardolphm: last time i looked at the backend tests for ldap there were many18:13
bretonsome of the tests are skipped by design18:13
knikollai remember seeing a lot of ldap tests skipped, but i haven't looked in other areas18:13
bretonif caching is not enabled, for example18:13
dolphm++ but maybe mistakenly skipped suddenly18:14
knikollaso can't compare18:14
stevemardolphm: i actually added skips since we removed write support for ldap18:14
bknudsonremoving write support from ldap will likely lead to more skipped tests18:14
knikollaskipped for a pretty good reason though.18:15
bknudsoncould be refactored to have write tests in a separate class that's only run for sql backend18:15
stevemaryes, thats what i was thinking. might be time to refactor the tests18:15
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stevemarknikolla: this is going to get nasty :)18:15
knikollahmmm.... yeah....18:16
stevemara preliminary analysis should reveal a lot18:16
knikollastevemar: i volunteered for the analysis only for now :P18:16
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stevemarif only half the ldap tests are revealed to be LDAP related, we're still not in good shape18:16
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stevemarknikolla: i'll add you to the agenda for next week then18:16
knikollastevemar: sounds good18:17
stevemarany other comments?18:17
stevemar#topic Devstack plugin for federation18:18
*** openstack changes topic to "Devstack plugin for federation (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:18
stevemarknikolla: you're up18:18
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knikollaalright, so the devstack plugin is waiting for people to give it a spin and give reviews18:18
knikolla    #link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/320623/18:18
knikollait sets up federation using shibboleth18:18
knikollaand also sets up k2k. i've tested it in ubuntu 14.04 and 16.04 and also fedora (a while ago though)18:19
knikollawhat i haven't tested is using generic IdP, instead of k2k18:19
* rodrigods hides in the corner18:19
knikollain /devstack/README.rst theres documentation on how to set it up18:19
rodrigodsthis has been on my todo list for a while :(18:19
* breton ducks too18:20
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jamielennoxnice, what's the id store behind shib?18:20
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stevemarjamielennox: probably nothing fancy :P18:21
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knikollait can setup the sp or idp separately depending on configuration.18:21
bretonit sets up shibboleth for the sp side18:21
knikollaso id store depends on your idp. i've tested k2k.18:22
stevemarknikolla: reviewing it and trying it has been on my todo list for a while18:22
stevemarknikolla: is there a check job that runs the setup?18:22
bretonit would be great to write more tests using this set up18:22
knikollafeel free to ping me at anytime in the regular room if you have issues or questions18:22
knikollastevemar: not yet18:22
bretonstevemar: how do we do that?18:22
stevemarbreton: that's my next question, are there any tests that we run with this setup18:22
stevemarbreton: there are a few ways we could tackle that18:23
knikollastevemar: rodrigo has a few patches with tests18:23
bretonstevemar: there are some tests by rodrigods afaik. But we need more.18:23
stevemarwe could create a dsvm job and create a post_hook.sh file that calls knikolla's setup18:23
rodrigodswe need tests for k2k18:23
stevemarbest bet would be to talk to the infra team18:24
dolphmcould we run against testshib.org in tests for the non-k2k case?18:24
dolphm(in the gate)18:24
stevemardolphm: probbaly18:24
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dolphmi have no idea how reliable it is, or if we could run our own in the gate, etc18:24
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knikollait'll be nonvoting for a while, so we can test the reliability. if its good enough18:25
stevemarregistering seems like the hardest part, and can be automated; http://www.testshib.org/register.html18:25
stevemarknikolla: YEP18:25
stevemaroops, yep18:25
jamielennoxdoes a project only get one plugin and then provide flags within it?18:26
knikollajamielennox: yes18:26
stevemarlooks like you have to upload the metadata, manually :(18:27
knikollajamielennox: but plugins can either live inside devstack (like ldap) or in separate plugin repos, or in the project repo18:27
ayoungShould do LDAP the same way, but I was holding out for FreeIPA and Zuul 318:27
stevemar"Upload your uniquely named metadata file using the form below."18:27
stevemarhrybacki: long time no see18:27
ayounghrybacki, just talking functional testing...thought you might be interested18:28
hrybackiaye stevemar agreed. Hope all has been well :)18:28
jamielennoxknikolla: that's ok, i was just looking at how we would extend this if we wanted to, whether this would be a k2k plugin or if it's the keystone plugin that can do multiple tasks18:28
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* hrybacki listens in18:28
knikollajamielennox: it's pretty easy to extend via flags18:28
jamielennoxfor example, shib -> ldap locally would probably be easier than testshib - though hard to setup users18:28
stevemarknikolla: i'll bug the infra team with you about creating a job after the meeting18:28
ayoungCan shib be backed to LDAP?18:29
stevemarayoung: fo sho18:29
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ayoungstevemar, if we do that, we could add tasks to ensure that userids from one can match the other ...18:29
ayounghave users in LDAP that are also exposed as Federated users via SAML18:30
stevemarayoung: i can dig it18:30
jamielennoxayoung: ya, reading https://wiki.shibboleth.net/confluence/display/IDP30/LDAPAuthnConfiguration18:30
stevemarayoung: that'll test the shadow user bits18:30
stevemarthese are all good ideas, but we should review the patch and get a non-voting job for now18:31
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stevemarknikolla: be sure to bug dstanek -- he promised me he would look at testing this cycle :)18:31
rodrigodsstevemar, knikolla for reference in creating a job https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298696/18:31
knikollastevemar: roger18:31
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stevemarany other questions or comments?18:32
jamielennoxlooks good - i'll try and give it a go today18:32
stevemari'll try soon, weekend if i can't get to it this week18:32
stevemar#topic midcycle fallout18:33
*** openstack changes topic to "midcycle fallout (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:33
stevemareh, couldn't think of the right word18:33
stevemarbasically, we had a list of TODOs at the midcycle, with names attached and i'm calling people out now (buhahaha)18:34
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stevemarnot really meant to be mean, just wanted to know if the TODOs are still applicable18:34
stevemar#link http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-July/100299.html18:34
stevemarayoung: Modify policy files of each project so they can use “is_admin_project” and document how to upgrade18:34
stevemarhenrynash: Write up a reseller spec using sub domains including the auth URL idea18:34
stevemarhenrynash: Change federation shadow mapping to use the existing ID mapping (LDAP already uses it)18:34
stevemarbknudson: Propose patches to oslo.policy for improvements to external authorization18:34
ayoung  - Modify policy files of each project so they can use “is_admin_project”18:34
ayoungand document how to upgrade18:34
stevemarlamt: Create a spec for notifications for PCI events18:34
ayoungyeah, we are just now at the point where we can make use of that.  Its on the list for early next cycle18:35
stevemarhenrynash being the biggest culprit this time around18:35
amakarovstevemar, btw, there is no my RBAC service + middleware PoC there18:35
stevemarayoung: cool - i figured as much, i know you've been working that topic in bursts when you have time18:35
stevemaramakarov: i will happily add it18:35
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bknudsonstevemar: regarding "Propose patches to oslo.policy for improvements to external authorization" -- with change in strategy I don't know if this is a requirement for us or anybody else anymore18:35
ayoungstevemar, its beeen jamielennox doing the heavy lifting.  But needed to happen first.18:36
jamielennoxso keystone is about the only project that doesn't do is_admin_project in some way or another: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371856/18:36
stevemarbknudson: also something i assumed...18:36
stevemarbknudson: thanks for letting me know, i'll update my notes18:36
lamtstevemar: A spec for the pci notifications was checked in yesterday.18:36
stevemarlamt: yes it was!18:36
stevemarlamt: thanks for that, i have it open in a tab, will review soon18:36
lamtstevemar: thanks18:36
stevemarso henrynash is the troublemaker? :)18:37
stevemartopol: ^18:37
topolstevemar, how so?18:37
stevemartopol: just kidding :)18:37
stevemari'lll follow up with henrynash when i get a chance18:37
topolhenrynash is a good egg18:37
stevemarthanks for the updated bknudson, ayoung, amakarov and lamt18:38
stevemari've made notes accordingly18:38
stevemar#topic open discussion18:38
*** openstack changes topic to "open discussion (Meeting topic: keystone)"18:38
stevemarwho's coming to barcelona? who's already booked? who's presenting?18:38
topolopen TODOs?18:39
topoljust idding18:39
dolphmlamt: link?18:39
stevemardolphm: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/381302/18:39
dstaneki'll won't be there18:39
topolI will be in attendance.   Presenting interoperability challenge results18:39
* rodrigods has https://www.openstack.org/summit/barcelona-2016/summit-schedule/events/15560/pushing-your-qa-upstream18:39
rodrigodsplease don't go18:39
jamielennoxayoung, dolphm: i put up a spec with the fetching expired token stuff: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/381361/ - i didn't reuse an existing one18:40
ayoungI'm coming.  Splitting my time between Keystone and Tripleo18:40
jamielennoxdstanek, lbragstad: :(18:40
bretoni will be and already booked18:40
ayoungjamielennox, OK.18:40
dolphmstevemar: lamt: awesome, thanks18:40
stevemarrodrigods: i'll be there in the front seat18:40
brownei'll be there18:40
bretonhave to miss GSoC summit because of it :(18:40
jamielennoxi'm coming18:40
rodrigodsstevemar, nooo18:40
dolphmjamielennox: oooh18:40
hrybackiI'd like to take a LHF bug off of launchapd and walk through the replication/patch/ci process using oooq if anyone can recommend something they think would be a good fit for this?18:40
knikollaalready booked18:40
hrybackialso, have fun in Barcelona y'all :(18:40
ayoungoooq being Tripleo-Quickstart....18:41
knikollaand have a vbrownbag talk18:41
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rderoseI'll be there18:41
stevemarknikolla: what about?18:41
hrybackiayoung: yes ty, tune to your audience18:41
knikollastevemar: the usual "Resource Federation in a Multi-Landlord Cloud"18:41
stevemarknikolla: nice. anyone else presenting?18:42
hrybackibasically my goal is to make TripleO-Quickstart a better tool for developers -- and this seems like a good way to help Keystone in tandem18:42
knikollait's 6 minutes of presentation time :P18:42
knikollaor was it 12 :P18:42
stevemarhrybacki: you can use the tag to find LHF, but i'm not sure we have anything atm18:42
stevemarknikolla: so i'm hearing a "no" :)18:43
ayoungWTF is LHF18:43
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rodrigodslow hanging fruit18:43
hrybackistevemar: aye. I see a few. ayoung low hanging fruit :P18:43
knikollastevemar: gsilvis is also presenting with me18:43
stevemarit took me a while to guess what hrybacki was talking about :)18:43
* rodrigods hunted LHF bugs when entering the openstack world18:44
stevemari know it's hard to organize, but i'll try to find a day for all of us to get together18:44
stevemarfor dinner of course18:44
hrybackigreat I'll review these -- is there someone in particular I can use as a point person for questions?18:44
stevemarsummits are harder than midcycles though :\18:44
ayoungSour grapse18:44
rodrigodsstevemar, for beer of course18:44
ayounggrapes even18:45
hrybackirodrigods: I did too! For keystone actually18:45
rodrigodshrybacki, ++18:46
dstanekhrybacki: they keystone channel :-)18:46
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stevemarsounds like it'll be a good crowd going :)18:46
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stevemarwith some folks sorely missed :(18:47
lbragstadstevemar take good notes ;)18:47
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stevemarlbragstad: will do sir18:47
ayoungWe done?18:47
stevemarlbragstad / dstanek / others that aren't going... let me know in advanced if you want to discuss something18:48
stevemarayoung: yep18:48
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stevemarthanks for the time everyone18:48
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"18:48
bretonwhat is o\?18:48
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 18:48:31 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:48
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-10-04-17.59.html18:48
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-10-04-17.59.txt18:48
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/keystone/2016/keystone.2016-10-04-17.59.log.html18:48
stevemarbreton: a salute, of course!18:48
hrybackibreton: a salute maybe?18:48
fungislow week for keystoners?18:48
stevemarfungi: yep, it was welcomed :)18:49
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bretonoooh, ok18:49
stevemarfungi: i can't recall the last time i ended a meeting early18:49
stevemarand not at 14:5918:49
dstanekwoot! i love it when a meeting ends early18:49
fungialmost as good as when a plan comes together18:50
stevemargotta give the people what they want18:50
stevemarfungi: maybe that was dstanek's plan all along o_O18:50
dstanekfungi: ++18:50
dstanekfungi: that's a close #218:50
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fungiand now i have the a-team theme music stuck in my head. i should have known better18:51
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stevemarfungi: the movie reboot is better than the original18:52
stevemarfungi: jk :)18:52
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stevemardon't ban me from all channels18:52
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fungii didn't need to know there was a movie reboot. now i really feel old18:52
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stevemarfungi: it was bad, just forget i mentioned anything at all :P18:53
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anteayastevemar: not a chance18:56
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stevemaranteaya: :)18:58
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* jeblair waits for the reboot of airwolf19:00
* fungi shudders19:00
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pleia2jeblair: hahaha19:01
fungiinfra team, assemble!19:01
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fungithis week's topics proposed by jeblair, zaro, ildikov, ianychoi, fungi19:01
anteayaha ha ha19:01
ildikovis the meeting started?19:02
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anteayaildikov: not yet19:02
hasharmeetbot is unavailable apparently19:02
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anteayathis is the gathering at the door and shaking hands bit19:02
funginah, i usually just wait a couple minutes for people to put down their pens and pencils19:02
ildikovhashar: ah, ok19:03
pleia2pick up our burritos19:03
fungi#startmeeting infra19:03
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 19:03:11 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is fungi. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.19:03
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.19:03
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'infra'19:03
fungi#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/InfraTeamMeeting#Agenda_for_next_meeting19:03
clarkbI don't have a burrito :(19:03
fungi#topic Announcements19:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Announcements (Meeting topic: infra)"19:03
Shrewsfungi: i'm keeping my quill handy though19:03
fungi#info reminder: fungi will be on vacation October 8-16; pleia2 has generously agreed to chair the October 11 meeting instead19:03
fungiShrews: of course you will19:03
fungias always, feel free to hit me up with announcements you want included in future meetings19:03
fungi#topic Actions from last meeting19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Actions from last meeting (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
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fungi#link http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-09-27-19.02.html19:04
fungi1. (none)19:04
fungithat was a remarkably successful week ;)19:04
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fungi#topic Specs approval19:04
*** openstack changes topic to "Specs approval (Meeting topic: infra)"19:04
funginothing new this week on the agenda, though jeblair has a couple of updates for a priority spec19:04
fungiwhich is next on our agenda19:05
fungi#topic Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 (jeblair)19:05
*** openstack changes topic to "Priority Efforts: Zuul v3 (jeblair) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:05
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fungilooks like you have a couple of changes for the zuulv3 spec to discuss?19:05
fungi#link https://review.openstack.org/381329 Zuul v3: update with Ansible role information19:05
jeblairya, as promised last week, i wrote up the things we discussed needed changing while in germany19:05
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jeblairthat one probably merits the most discussion19:05
jeblairso i wanted to bring it to people's attention19:06
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jeblairi think we're all in agreement on the general principle (zuul needs to do this), but there are some more options than we considered as to *how* it should do it19:06
jeblairso, i guess bash it out in the change review and we'll see if we can get to consensus soon19:07
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jeblair#link https://review.openstack.org/381330 Zuul v3: correct vagueness in describing job inheritance19:07
fungiit does have some implications on security/stability i guess, if we have role dependencies in ansible galaxy19:07
jeblairthat one is more of a 'catch the spec up with reality' change19:08
fungier, i was talking about the first one of course19:08
jeblairfungi: indeed19:08
jeblairfungi: i think we would not want to have external role dependencies for many of our jobs19:08
fungiwonder how often a change to an external role will break jobs depending on it, similar to the disruption from runtime dependencies of projects changing19:08
jeblairfungi: but i think it could be really useful for, say, advanced ansible-openstack jobs (which are likely doing exactly that today, just *within* the job)19:08
fungiagreed, it's effectively already being done in their jobs19:09
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jeblairfungi: and i think that's the reason it ultimately doesn't really change the failure rate, etc19:09
jeblairfungi: though... we do have the opportunity to have zuul auto-retry things in that case19:09
clarkbya I don't foresee them being a super common thing. Most of it is going to be bottled up in the infra roles to do common stuff I expect19:09
jeblairfungi: (failure of a known job pre-requisite is something we can safely retry (for a fixed number of times))19:10
jeblairclarkb: yep19:10
fungitotally makes sense. thanks19:10
jeblair[lacking further questions, eot from me]19:10
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fungion the second change, this is basically clarifying that parameters redefined in later templates take the last definition, rather than an earlier one?19:11
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fungiand otherwise is a union of parameters found in each template i guess19:13
jeblairfungi: well, it's more subtle than that19:13
fungihrm, it doesn't actually address redefinition of a parameter19:13
jeblairfungi: i don't think it actually addresses multiple templates including the same job19:13
jeblairfungi: what it does is say that if you invoke "py27" it's going to run a py27 job based on the parameters specified in all of the py27 jobs which match that change19:14
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jeblairfungi: (so if you have py27 defined globally, and then a variant for a stable branch, and then a variant for the project in question, it's going to include information from all of those (in that order))19:14
jeblairfungi: individual parameters usually get overriden, though one or two get appended, i think19:15
fungiand combine them into a single job19:15
jeblair(so if you say "py27 on stable branches should run on trusty" and "py27 for nova should be non-voting" then the py27 job for a nova stable branch will be non-voting and on trusty)19:16
fungiokay, so externalizing the branching logic into a composition layer scheme instead of having to do branching logic in the job by checking those different facets19:16
jeblairyep.  i think it much more closely matches what we want to say19:16
fungiyea, this is good. i think it gets us to a much more human-readable configuration19:17
jeblairnot a regex in sight19:17
jeblair(you can still regex on file matches)19:17
clarkband no interpolation to think about19:17
jeblairyep.  we may get to the point where we forget that there's a py27 variant for stable branches....19:18
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jeblairso we might want some logging or to otherwise expose the variants that zuul applied in constructing the job for ease of debugging19:18
jeblairbut i think it will still be understandable19:19
fungithis second change seems to be pretty popular. a few rollcall votes already and no requests for alteration. it's only been up for a day but maybe we put it up for a council vote until thursday?19:19
jeblairsounds good19:19
jeblairthe other one we should probably let cook until next week19:19
fungithe first change looks like jhesketh and mordred are still going back and forth yeah19:20
mordredI like to go back and forth with people19:20
fungi#info Council voting remains open on "Zuul v3: correct vagueness in describing job inheritance" until 19:00 UTC on Thursday, October 6.19:20
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fungithanks jeblair!19:21
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fungi#topic Feedback on Gerrit plugin to display zuuls cross repo `needed-by` reference (zaro)19:21
*** openstack changes topic to "Feedback on Gerrit plugin to display zuuls cross repo `needed-by` reference (zaro) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:21
mordredfungi: I'll try to write more words to jhesketh19:21
zaroi was wondering whether there was interest in this19:21
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zarosorry, should have probably put it on review-dev.o.o19:22
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zaroit's the depends-on and needed-by thing in red19:22
zarored means there is a cycle19:23
jeblairzaro: the needed-by is based on a reverse query of the index?19:23
jeblairzaro: oh that's neat :)19:23
pleia2oh, that's nice19:23
clarkbthe way I have always wanted that to be rendered is as a git subway graph19:23
zaroi've added rest endpoint for it19:23
clarkband incorporate proper git parent child relationships too19:23
fungiat one point there was a discussion of having it over where the related changes end up in the new change screen, rather than putting this in a part of the ui where gerrit has stopped displaying dependencies19:23
clarkb(beacuse in current gerrit it is really hard to see those relationships)19:24
clarkbin any case I like having the info available maybe we can extend it to also include proper parent child info19:24
zaroclarkb: ok, maybe this could be first step. becuase it would have help me out a lot when tying a bunch of xrepo dependencies together19:24
fungiyeah, i'm not a fan of the new gerrit "related changes" box, but having the commit message scraped depends-on relationships in a completely separate part of the ui seems a little strange19:25
pabelangerI like the idea19:25
pleia2zaro: seems reasonable as a first step19:25
zarofungi: yeah, no extension point at this time.  but can be adapter in that location later19:25
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fungizaro: as an interim solution, i agree this is useful19:25
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fungiuntil the webui has a means of letting you integrate it better into the related changes box19:26
zarocool.  i'll clean up and make it avaiable for whenever you guys decide to use it.19:26
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fungiis there an associated api call to look these up, or will other tools (e.g. gertty) need to continue to rely on a message: query?19:26
pleia2thanks zaro!19:26
clarkbmaybe we can provide that thing in addition to related chagnes sort of like what is there now?19:26
zarofungi: yes, there a rest endpoint19:26
clarkbbasically let gerrit proper do the silly thing then have a plugin or whatever that shows the richer graph19:26
fungizaro: nice!19:27
clarkbbut ya I like having that info regardless of shinyness19:27
fungiso maybe gertty will be able to grow needs-by lookups19:27
fungier, needed-by19:27
zaroyeah, should be no problem with this plugin19:28
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fungiokay, anything else on this topic before i move on?19:28
fungi#link https://github.com/zaro0508/dependson/blob/master/src/main/resources/Documentation/rest-api-changes.md19:28
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zaronothing else19:29
fungii've reordered the other topics to move mine to the end of the agenda, in case we run short on time19:29
jeblairzaro: oh one thing19:29
jeblairzaro: we may end up extending the depends-on syntax in zuulv3, but i imagine the current syntax will continue to work19:29
jeblairzaro: (just be aware it may eventually also grow the ability to say "Depends-On: <some github change thing>" etc19:30
zarothanks for the heads up.  the plugin will be hosted on gerit repo19:30
zaroi think i'll call it 'dependson' plugin19:30
anteayadescriptive name19:30
mordredmuch better than what I would have named it19:30
zarowell good, i guess that's the hardest part :)19:31
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fungi#topic Storyboard vs. LP for openstack-dev/sandbox repository (ildikov, ianychoi)19:32
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*** openstack changes topic to "Storyboard vs. LP for openstack-dev/sandbox repository (ildikov, ianychoi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:32
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ildikovtl;dr we are working on the upstream training content and one the blocks is tracking of items19:33
anteayathere is a patch19:33
fungi#link https://storyboard.openstack.org/#!/story/2000734 Storyboard vs. Launchpad for new contributor trainings19:33
ildikovas most of the projects are still using LP the idea was to create a sandbox project there19:33
ildikov#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/375834/19:33
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anteayathank you19:34
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ildikovso currently we would like to teach the students the current tools19:34
ildikovthis is what we would need the LP sandbox page for19:34
anteaya#link https://launchpad.net/openstack-dev-sandbox19:35
fungii think i'm fine with moving the sandbox repo off storyboard for the time being, since it's not really an infra project and i can see how having its bug integration tied to storyboard sort of makes it a training issue19:35
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anteayaI'm fine with either one or the other, I don't care which just not both19:35
fungii don't recall why we migrated it to storyboard (or if we even stopped to think about the implication of doing so)19:36
ildikovadditionally we plan to introduce storyboard too, but would go deeper into it, when it's more widely used19:36
Zaracool, I was wondering if anyone being trained was likely to then contribute to a project using storyboard or not19:36
ildikovhmm, was it originally a LP project? I mean sandbox19:36
clarkbildikov: are you specifically looking to show people the integration between lp and gerrit? (I think just about everything else can be done with this)19:36
clarkb(I also have no problem with the change if that is the goal)19:36
ildikovclarkb: we plan to show the whole workflow without messing up any project page/repo19:37
fungiright, given that most new contributors are going to be shown to add closes:bug: lines to their commits and whatnot, having them see the integration with lp makes more sense until a majority of projects have moved from lp to sb19:37
ildikovclarkb: so in this sense including Gerrit, yes19:37
anteayaildikov: everything was originally on launchpad, though I don't think we had a sandbox group on launchpad before19:37
clarkbfungi: yup19:37
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ZaraI'm +1 for giving training for whatever tools are going to be used by the people being trained, so to me it would depend what projects they're going to be working on, anyway.  :)19:38
ildikovanteaya: right, I didn't remember the sandbox one, not following the training that long either though, so wasn't impossible :)19:38
fungii expect we'll switch the sandbox repo to interact with storyboard soonish, but with training activity ramping up at the summit now is not a good time to start pushing that transition19:38
anteayaildikov: its a good question, I dont think the sandbox repo ever had its own launchpad page before19:39
fungiso anyway, anyone disagree about having an lp sandbox project in the interim?19:39
ildikovZara: we don't have a list of projects what to show, but people are usually interested in Nova and/or other core services, which haven't switched yet19:39
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anteayafungi: I do not disagree19:39
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anteayaso the change to the patch would be to remove the use storyboard: true rule19:40
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anteayaand to remove it from storyboard19:40
fungii can look into what needs to be cleaned up in sb, or we could just ignore any already imported cruft in there if there is any in there19:40
SotKyep, training explaining LP and also StoryBoard seems like a good plan, and I guess using LP with sandbox is the most sensible, given the current distribution of projects19:40
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ildikovSotK: our thinking exactly19:41
SotK(there are 15 stories against sandbox in storyboard.o.o, one about this question and the rest look like test stories)19:41
fungi#agreed For the sake of training, we should switch the openstack-dev/sandbox repo to interact with Launchpad until a majority of official OpenStack repos have moved from there to Storyboard.19:41
ildikovfungi: if you can point me or ianychoi to what needs to be cleaned up we are happy to do that19:41
anteayaildikov: we will comment on the patch19:42
fungiSotK: i expect we can just ignore the sandbox project in sb, and let people continue to use it to test out sb for now (sans gerrit integration, which can be demonstrated with review-dev and storyboard-dev if needed)19:42
ildikovanteaya: great, thank you!19:42
SotKfungi: I agree19:42
Zarayeah, storyboard-dev is already a massive playground for testing storyboard19:42
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Zaraso it's easy enough to direct people there if they're curious19:43
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fungiand when the time comes to import projects, we can probably skip importing the sandbox-related project on lp into sb19:43
anteayaildikov: commented19:43
anteayaildikov: thanks for attending the meeting and for the hard work you and ianychoi and the rest of the training folks are doing19:44
fungijust switch it back to sb at that point and ignore that the old lp bugs in it weren't imported (or import them, i guess the odds of a collision on story bumbers are unlikely given the starting offset we picked)19:44
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anteayafungi: do you want to leave the use-storyboard: true rule in project-config?19:44
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anteayaI thought we were not doing both19:45
ildikovanteaya: sure, on boarding is important, so we are trying to put a bit more effort into doing a good job with it19:45
fungianteaya: no, we'd remove use-storyboard in projects.yaml and add the groups entry19:45
fungithanks ildikov and ianychoi!19:45
anteayafungi: ah great, yes that is the direction my comment took19:45
anteayaildikov: thank you19:45
fungiwe'll follow up on the review and, if necessary, can help in #openstack-infra if you run into issues with it19:46
fungi#topic Infra PTG presence in Atlanta (fungi)19:46
*** openstack changes topic to "Infra PTG presence in Atlanta (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:46
fungithe project team gathering looks like it's going to be february 20-24 in atlanta19:46
ildikovfungi: great, thank you!19:46
fungihorizontal teams get monday and tuesday, vertical teams wednesday through friday (roughly, depending a bit on room availability)19:46
fungidiablo_rojo and ttx reached out to ptls wanting to know whether our teams are likely to attend19:46
fungiso this is an open question for the team... who expects to be able to make it?19:46
fungifor the whole week or just part?19:47
anteayais this how we register to attend?19:47
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fungithis is how we try to help them figure out how much space will be needed19:47
anteayaif yes, I would like to register to attend please19:47
ttxanteaya: no, there will be registration after we have an idea of how many teams will show up19:47
anteayaI thought the venue already had a space limit19:47
ttxProbably in November or so19:47
fungii expect to be there, though it's an easy flight for me and possibly not for others19:48
clarkbI expect to be there all week19:48
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pabelangerfungi: pending travel approval, I expect to be there all week19:48
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fungiand yeah, the idea is that we pick vertical teams we want to help hack on for the latter part of the week19:48
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jeblairmonday is a us holiday19:48
fungiso this is a great opportunity for some cross-team interaction19:48
fungijeblair: the e-mail said "monday optional"19:49
fungipresumably for that reason19:49
clarkbjeblair: modnay of barcelona summit is a holiday there too. maybe its a new trend19:49
fungithough, i mean, the entire event is optional, so i don't really know what the implication of that option is ;)19:49
jeblairplus, it's like the worst weekend to try to ski in the us, so i'm happy to date-shift it anyway :)19:49
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anteayaclarkb: yeah, not a trend I'm a fan of19:50
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rcarrillocruzif i get budget for it, i'd be all week myself too...19:50
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zaroi must have missed the memo on on PTG, can some give me one line summary?19:50
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fungizaro: that's a tough one to distill19:51
anteayazaro: mid-cycles for all the teams at once, in the same locatoin19:51
zaroor link ?19:51
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pabelangerzaro: https://www.openstack.org/ptg/19:51
anteayazaro: the design summit without the conference19:51
fungiexcept not really mid-cycles, because the summit becomes our mid-cycles19:51
anteayabut not called the design summit19:52
rcarrillocruzdo we know already the location, as the hotel/whatever19:52
Zaraif I ever recover from my last brush with Atlanta airport security, I'll ask about travel.19:52
rcarrillocruzttx, fungi ^19:52
pabelangerfungi: See, I thought it was for mid-cycles... TIL19:52
anteayarcarrillocruz: atlanta19:52
anteayarcarrillocruz: I don't know if a hotel has been selected19:52
rcarrillocruzi know, i mean the hotel or convention centre19:52
fungiyeah, i don't know what the venue is19:53
rcarrillocruzi expect it to be a cheaper place at least, no?19:53
fungior if i did, i don't think i was allowed to tell anyone so i promptly forgot19:53
anteayarcarrillocruz: well it will be cheaper by virtue of every hotel won't triple its prices19:53
anteayasince 7000 people are attending19:53
pleia2there are a lot of places in atlanta for all sizes of things19:54
fungiyeah, i don't think there's an expectation everyone will pick the same hotels to stay in anyway19:54
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ttxyes it is cheaper and less classy :)19:54
fungithe goal is to have it be in a city where you can get cheaper flights and can find cheap (comparatively) accommodations19:54
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jeblairmy flight to bcn is very cheap, fwiw :)19:55
ttxjeblair: one-way ?19:55
fungithough our idea of doing it on college campuses during breaks and being able to take advantage of dormitory rooming rates (like, say, debconf) didn't quite fly19:55
rcarrillocruzgood, cos chances are i may not get funding, so i would consider self-funding depending on how much will be19:55
rcarrillocruzanyway, long way from now19:55
jeblairttx: why would you need a round trip? ;)19:55
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ttxjeblair: mine is very cheap too19:56
flaper87ttx: dunno, mine too19:56
ttxflaper87: I know right19:56
fungircarrillocruz: i think the plan is that the travel support program will be extended to cover ptg attendees too19:56
ttxfungi: it is indeed the plan19:56
flaper87ttx: that's good news :)19:56
zarofungi: you can put me down for maybe at this point.19:57
rcarrillocruzoh yeah, that's good to know, thanks :-)19:57
rcarrillocruzit's good it's atlanta, i mean, flights wise it is going to be way cheaper, less connections19:57
fungi#agreed There is at least a representative subset of the Infra team who would like to attend the PTG in February.19:57
fungii'll make sure to let diablo_rojo and ttx know19:57
fungi#topic Ocata Summit Planning (fungi)19:58
*** openstack changes topic to "Ocata Summit Planning (fungi) (Meeting topic: infra)"19:58
fungi#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/infra-ocata-summit-planning Infra Ocata Summit Planning pad19:58
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fungijust a minute left, but please put any session ideas there19:58
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fungii'd like to start trying to work out how many we have and will do an ml thread to try to prioritize them so i can attempt to fit them into our schedule later this week19:59
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fungi#topic Open discussion19:59
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: infra)"19:59
fungiyou have 10 seconds19:59
anteayathank you fungi19:59
fungimy pleasure, as always20:00
fungithanks everyone!20:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"20:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 20:00:19 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)20:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-04-19.03.html20:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-04-19.03.txt20:00
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/infra/2016/infra.2016-10-04-19.03.log.html20:00
fungiyour turn, ttx20:00
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dhellmannttx: russellb won't be able to make it today20:00
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ttxjohnthetubaguy, mestery, mtreinish, mordred, russellb, sdague: around ?20:01
ttx#startmeeting tc20:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 20:01:42 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is ttx. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.20:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.20:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: tc)"20:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'20:01
* edleafe hides on the side of the room20:01
ttxLast meeting for the Newton TC membership! Our agenda:20:01
ttx#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee20:01
ttx(remember to use #info #idea and #link liberally to make for a more readable summary)20:02
ttx#topic Decide and schedule Cross-project workshops for Barcelona20:02
*** openstack changes topic to "Decide and schedule Cross-project workshops for Barcelona (Meeting topic: tc)"20:02
ttx#link https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/ocata-cross-project-sessions20:02
ttxWe had 16 proposals by the deadline20:02
ttxone (1) was struck out for some reason (abandoned ?)20:02
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ttxanother (15) is lacking a session lead, so we should drop it unless there is a volunteer20:03
ttxFor the remaining 14, judging by the votes, we have four categories20:03
ttxA/ 2 must-have (5, 13)20:03
mtreinishttx: I would volunteer for 15, but I won't be able to make it20:03
ttxB/ 7 pretty obvious choices (2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 16)20:04
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ttxhmm, maybe add 14 to that set20:04
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ttxC/ 2 slightly-less obvious choices (7, 9)20:04
ttxD/ 2 subpar (8, 12)20:04
ttxSo... We should discuss if we should assign a double-slot to any of these20:04
ttxThen see how many of category C we want to approve20:05
ttxTo give you an idea, there are two scheduling strawmen on the etherpad20:05
dhellmann13 looks like a good candidate for a double session20:05
ttxjohnthetubaguy's is not assigning any double-slot, and nothing for category C, for a light schedule20:05
ttxmine's is assigning double slots for #5 and #13, and saves #720:05
dhellmannmaybe even split those 2 sessions over 2 days20:05
ttxslightly busier schedule, but still a lot less busy than Austin (where we ran 3 in parallel)20:06
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* Rockyg waves to edleafe and wishes him success20:06
johnthetubaguyyeah, I was thinking about getting more people to the ones I think we need to worry about20:06
ttxAgree on #13 needing a double slot20:06
johnthetubaguybut I am warming a lot to ttx's proposal after thinking about it more20:06
edleafeRockyg: thanks!20:06
dhellmann+1 to keeping the number of parallel sessions to a minimum20:06
dimsdhellmann : for 13 we may end up getting different sets of people show up (not sure if that's good or bad)20:06
ttxWhat about #5 ? Do you think we can get to something useful there in 40 min ?20:07
dhellmanndims : I was thinking about having the ability to "sleep on" the first part of the discussion20:07
dimsdhellmann : yep that would help20:07
johnthetubaguyif we had only one double, I would vote for 1320:07
dhellmannttx: I think so, though I'd be interested in smcginnis, diablo_rojo, and thingee's input20:07
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flaper87dims: dhellmann I'd be worried that the set of people attending the first part would not attend the second part20:07
fungii thought %5 was an opinion-gathering forum?20:07
fungier, #520:07
flaper87If we split 13 into 2 sessions, that is20:07
fungii was definitely planning to participate in #5 anyway20:08
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dhellmannflaper87 : yeah, that's a concern. might be worth the risk, though, esp. if we make it clear up front what the plan is20:08
thingeeI feel like it'll start conversations, on #5... at least having a picture of where things are.20:08
piet_ttx #1 wasn't receiving any votes and decided to use another forum to select research priorities for next cycle20:08
smcginnisdhellmann: Yeah, I think so as well.20:08
ttxpiet_: thx for the info20:08
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smcginnisA start at least.20:08
dhellmannsmcginnis : so there's no need for a double session?20:09
thingeediablo_rojo is currently on working on what things look like for other projects. smcginnis has done a great job on the cinder side20:09
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thingeedhellmann: I don't think so20:09
ttxwe'll probably need to expand to a wider audience after brushing up the topic anyway20:09
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dhellmannthingee : ok, thanks20:09
ttxIt's not somethign that will be decided in 40 or 90 min anyway20:09
thingeettx: +120:09
dougwigfor #5. it could use a double if the first is "where is the line" and the second is "a common framework/method".  i don't think feeling out the line will happen in less than 40 minutes.20:10
diablo_rojoI was planning on emailing the cp liaisons this week about if they will be attending the session/ asking for representation.20:10
smcginnisdhellmann: If we can only do one, I think there's still value. But two would likely be needed. But I'm OK if we can at least get the conversation started and then defer to the PTG if we really have to.20:10
thingeedougwig: that's true. we could draw out multiple solutions. just the final decision will take place after I think20:10
fungidougwig: i agree with you there20:10
thingeedhellmann: I guess I'm unsure now :)20:10
smcginnisdiablo_rojo: Good call.20:10
fungi"a common framework" sounds like the e-mail thread which will follow that session20:10
dhellmannI like the topic split that way20:10
ttxSo we could have one session for where is the line, a session on driver log where we can continue to touch on those topics20:10
dimsdhellmann : #3 and #4, do we need 40 mins each or can we club them together?20:11
dhellmannbut yeah, I wonder if the implementation details of a framework are a much much longer discussion20:11
smcginnisfungi: Could be.20:11
dhellmanndims : #3 may not need 40 minutes, but I expect #4 will20:11
ttxdims: different topics I think20:11
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ttxOK, so only #13 using a double-slot ?20:11
thingeettx: I kind of feel like the driver log stuff alone needs the 40 mins. If we have extra time, I would be happy to continue the conversation of #520:11
dimsack ttx dhellmann20:11
ttx#info #13 should have a doubleslot20:12
ttxWhich ones do we want to include from category C ?20:12
ttx#7 and/or #920:12
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ttx7 is "Stewardship Working Group (SWG) discussion"20:13
dhellmann#info group A/ 2 must-have (5, 13)20:13
dtroyer_zzI'm not sure how much a single conversaion is useful in #920:13
dtroyer_zzthat sounds like a conversaion per SDK20:13
ttx9 is "SDK fishbowl"20:13
dhellmann#info group B/ 7 pretty obvious choices (2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 16)20:13
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dhellmann#info group C/ 2 slightly-less obvious choices (7, 9)20:13
ttxNote that both are narrow-enough and would likely not genberate conflicts20:13
dhellmann#info group D/ 2 subpar (8, 12)20:13
thingeettx: I spoke to flanders about #9. I think we agreed there wouldn't be much attendance from the sdk devs themselves.20:13
thingeethe real value would be in consumers of the sdks. Mostly talking about shade though at this time20:14
flaper87dhellmann: I think ttx said we should add 14 to the obvious choices (in case you want to have an info on that too)20:14
thingeethere are efforts in the future pre-next summit to start building this up more for sdk devs20:14
dhellmann#info group B/ 7 pretty obvious choices (2, 3, 4, 6, 10, 11, 14, 16)20:14
dhellmannflaper87 : thanks20:14
annegentlethingee ttx if the working groups related to SDKs got time, it would be okay to drop20:14
ttxOK, so we'd save only #7 ?20:14
thingeeIn case people don't know, Flanders works for the OpenStack Foundation in improving our app dev community20:14
ttxhe is a cool neighbour20:15
dhellmanndtroyer_zz : what do you mean "a single conversation"?20:15
annegentlettx does the Product WG also have time elsewhere?20:15
ttxdhellmann: all SDKs at the same time20:15
dtroyer_zzwhat ttx said20:15
ttxannegentle: I think they have a workgroup room somewhere20:15
mtreinishdtroyer_zz: yeah, that's a good point. What is the end goal of a session like that?20:15
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dhellmannis mordred here? his name is on that sdk item too20:15
dtroyer_zzthere is very little that actually spans all of the SDKs, as much as I wish that were not the case20:15
annegentlettx yeah20:15
flaper87dhellmann: think he's on a plane20:16
flaper87(based on twitter info)20:16
smcginnisWould that encompass openstackclient as an "sdk"20:16
Rockygprod wg definitely has a session and on Friday, a working session20:16
dhellmanndtroyer_zz : the description makes it sound like the idea is to turn one fishbowl room into a bunch of work sessions20:16
annegentledtroyer_zz yeah it's unfortunate, I was thinking in past summits it's usually the OpenStack client, API WGm and the App Ecosystem WG sessions that are useful20:16
dtroyer_zzsmcginnis: no, plus OSC has its own sessions20:16
* ttx tweaks his strawman schedule to remove the double-slot for #520:16
smcginnisdtroyer_zz: Gotcha, thanks!20:17
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dimsslightly offtopic, With all the email conversations about what the new candidates for TC should/could do, feels like we need a session "Throw eggs at your TC"20:17
fungior vegetables20:17
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thingeesmcginnis: see original email on project team slots http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/2016-September/103560.html20:17
smcginnisthingee: Thanks!20:17
smcginnisForgot about that.20:18
thingeesmcginnis: and join us! :)20:18
stevemardims: tomatoes will work just fine20:18
dhellmanndims, fungi : TC Frittata?20:18
fungidims: better might be to just rotate tc members staffing a dunking booth20:18
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flaper87dhellmann: lol20:18
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anteayathrow blueberries at me20:18
ttxOK, so any objections to the current selection ?20:18
dimsstevemar : i have to learn how to say "no fish, no meat" :)20:18
anteayaall the blueberries20:18
johnthetubaguydims: the SWG is kinda the TC re-inventing whats its doing in a way20:18
dimsttx : +120:18
ttxAa (including double for #13) + Bs + #720:18
smcginnis+1 for dunking booth20:18
flaper87ttx: none from me20:19
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dhellmannttx: +120:19
ttxTrying to fix my schedule20:19
johnthetubaguyttx: does your current strawman proposal have all those in at the moment? I guess it does20:19
ttxjohnthetubaguy: yes, trying to optimize though20:19
dimsjohnthetubaguy : so let's make sure we word it such that people know lot of TC folks will be there20:19
dhellmannttx: I like the org/tech split you identified20:19
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fungiyep, sort of track-like20:20
dhellmannttx: I would appreciate it if you could keep #3 and #13 from overlapping20:20
dims++ to org/tech split20:20
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ttxtweaked it a bit to remove a conflict I had.. How does that one look for you all ?20:20
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ttxcheck for hard conflicts you may have20:21
fungii worry that overalpping #4 with anything is going to have some impact on whatever it overlaps with20:21
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dhellmannttx: I wanted to participate in the decomposition discussion. can #3 move to wed 12:15?20:22
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ttxdhellmann: I wanted to avoid having all "architects" missing the decomposition discussion20:22
johnthetubaguy13 and 6 look a bit bad for me, but meh, nothing is going to be perfect20:22
dhellmannah, ok20:22
fungibut especially considering the number of tc members who were mentioning #4 in their platform statements this election, i wonder if havig it overlap with the swg means there won't be a lot of tc members in the swg session20:22
ttxI could swap with the upgrade discussion20:23
flaper87also, can we swap 10 and 4 ?20:23
ttxflaper87: same lots of overlap between architects and SWG members20:23
flaper87I'd like to attend 4 and 7, that's why20:23
dhellmannfungi : yeah20:23
ttxlet me see20:23
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* dtroyer_zz is surprised at the conflicts with just two rooms active20:23
ttxdtroyer_zz: it's actualkly not surprising20:24
dtroyer_zzmust mean we've got some good topics20:24
ttxless topics means less optional topics20:24
johnthetubaguyttx spotted this earlier, with less sessions we are getting more conflicts20:24
ttxmoved Python 3 a bit, does that look better ?20:24
johnthetubaguyargh, so now I am skipping 6 with I had intended on leading somewhat20:25
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ttxhow about that20:25
dhellmannI still won't be in the SWG session this way, but I don't see a way to avoid that20:26
ttxdhellmann: swap with rolling upgrades ?20:26
dimsy i really want to see what will be in SWG as i missed the training20:26
ttx3<-> 1120:26
dhellmannttx: that would work20:26
flaper87ttx: +1 to swap it20:26
johnthetubaguybetter... so I kinda want to be in all of them, which is bad, but live20:26
flaper87ttx: 3 and 1120:26
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johnthetubaguyis 11 in a ops friendly slot still?20:27
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ttxjohnthetubaguy: argh20:27
dhellmannI'm looking forward to the PTG, when we'll have more time for these sorts of things20:27
annegentledhellmann +20:27
ttxit is still somewhat ops friendly20:27
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ttx(everything on wednesday is)20:27
flaper87johnthetubaguy: I think it's ops friendly20:27
dimsif both 13 sessions are on the same day, we can't sleep on it20:27
johnthetubaguyI still want to be in 11 & 7, but I think 7 should still win20:27
mtreinishdhellmann: heh, and more potential scheduling conflicts :)20:28
johnthetubaguyttx: cool20:28
dhellmanndims : at this point, I'm prepared to give up on that idea :-)20:28
ttxdo we want to sleep on it ?20:28
dimsdhellmann wanted to :)20:28
dhellmannmtreinish : if we have 2 days, we could have some sessions scheduled in their own slot (community goals, for example)20:28
ttxOK, let's sleep on the schedule20:28
johnthetubaguyyeah, +120:28
dhellmannttx: dims meant the split between the 2 parts of session #1320:28
ttxI'll do a thread to finalize it tomorrow20:28
dimsdhellmann : right20:29
dhellmannI had suggested putting those on separate days, but I don't think it's worth breaking what we've come up with to do that.20:29
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ttxWe could swap 13part2 with 520:29
dtroyer_zzswapping both sessions with another pair might do it20:29
ttxoh well, let's sleep on that and finalize scheduling tomorrow20:30
dimsttx : yep20:30
dhellmann13.2 for 5 might work20:30
ttxNeed to check that session leads are not dual-booked too20:30
dhellmannI assume no session leaders are speaking on these days?20:30
ttx#action ttx to start a thread on finalizing schedule20:30
ttxdhellmann: you assume wrong20:30
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ttx#info ttx to check for session lead conflicts with talks20:31
ttx#info consider swapping 13.2 for 520:31
ttxok, let's switch to another topic20:31
ttx#topic Clarify the process for the TC approved release20:31
*** openstack changes topic to "Clarify the process for the TC approved release (Meeting topic: tc)"20:31
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/37402720:32
ttxOnly minor objections, including recommending the use of "Interop WG" instead of Defcore, and removing the duplicate "that"20:32
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dhellmannyeah, I'm happy to prepare a follow-up to fix those wording nits20:32
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ttxOK, let's approve that one then20:32
annegentlethanks dhellmann20:33
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ttxobjections ?20:33
mtreinishttx: go for it20:33
ttxok done20:33
ttx#topic YAML cleanups20:33
*** openstack changes topic to "YAML cleanups (Meeting topic: tc)"20:33
ttxTwo small housekeeping items:20:33
ttx* Rename retired-projects.yaml to legacy.yaml (https://review.openstack.org/376828)20:33
ttxThat will capture better that projects that are removed from governance are not necessarily abandoned / retired from infra20:34
ttxthis one also has enough approvals to pass now20:34
ttxObjections ?20:34
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fungifwiw, that file is not (yet) integrated into our election tooling anyway but is intended to be soon20:34
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dimsno objections20:34
fungiso renaming is entirely nondisruptive in that regard20:35
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ttxwhich reminds me, we missed adding OpenStackSalt to that one20:35
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annegentleok good to know fungi20:35
anteayattx: yes it was agreed to add it after20:35
ttx#action ttx to add OpenStackSalt to legacy.yaml20:35
dimsafter this merges, i'll take an action on that ttx20:35
fungithere was at least one fuel repo made unofficial recently which should have ended up in there was well20:35
anteayattx: my understanding is once this patch merges dims will add salt20:35
openstackRemoving item from minutes: <ircmeeting.items.Action object at 0x7f66f46d4d10>20:35
ttx#action dims to propose change to add OpenStackSalt to legacy.yaml20:35
dimsfungi : ack on that fuel repo, will take care of that20:36
dhellmann#info wording tweaks on the tc-approved-release patch: https://review.openstack.org/38206420:36
fungii spotted it when trying to figure out why the atc count shrunk over a given time period20:36
ttxand... approved20:36
anteayathank you20:36
anteayathanks dims20:36
ttx* Alphabetise team names (https://review.openstack.org/376070)20:36
ttxThis can't really hurt, but is a rebase hell, so better approve it while it's fresh20:36
ttxstill missing a few votes20:36
annegentlettx darn, clobbers my api refresh20:36
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ttxannegentle: arh. Another rebase hellish one. If you rebase it on top of this one we could approve it in session20:37
annegentlettx nah it's oka20:37
annegentleokay even20:37
ttxbecause the one-week baking period is killing it20:37
annegentlettx I'll fix my links after this one lands20:38
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annegentlettx there's seven20:38
ttxTC members; please review https://review.openstack.org/#/c/376070/, still missing votes20:38
ttxannegentle: oh, not too bad20:38
ttxObjections ?20:38
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ttx((to the alpha-ordering one)20:39
thingeewhoops thought I already voted on this20:39
ttxok, ready to approve20:39
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ttxand done20:39
ttx#topic Add stable:follows-policy tag to heat20:39
*** openstack changes topic to "Add stable:follows-policy tag to heat (Meeting topic: tc)"20:39
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ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/37911420:39
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ttxThis addition was vetted by Tony as stable maint PTL, and there doesn't seem to be any objection so far20:40
annegentlettx did the heat PTL circle in on it?20:40
thingeedon't think it's required.20:40
ttxI think Rabi is the current ptl20:40
dhellmannthe author is hte heat ptl20:40
annegentlethingee ttx ok, cool20:41
ttxOK, ready to approve20:41
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ttxLast-minute objection ?20:41
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ttxand... done20:42
ttxwow, we actually have time to discuss Assume Good Faith a bit20:42
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ttx#topic Add "Assume Good Faith" to OpenStack principles20:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Add "Assume Good Faith" to OpenStack principles (Meeting topic: tc)"20:42
ttx#link https://review.openstack.org/36559020:42
ttxFeedback so far seems to be that the idea is good, but this is about personal conduct and therefore is a better match for the CoC20:42
flaper87I'd like to start by saying that this proposal did not try to tell folks that do not assume good faith should not be part of the community. I'd like to also add that I don't think assuming good faith stops at simply trusting that members of the community put openstack first when needed. There's more to it than that. For example, it's often said that the TC runs with a secret agenda, which is way20:42
flaper87far from being true. This and other things like this have been *assumed* in the past about other members.20:43
flaper87That being said, I'm good with linking the CoC. I'd rather have this written down with explicit words that would help us set expctations but I don't want to exclude anyone and I'm happy to keep reminding people to assume good faith.20:43
thingeeI think assuming good faith on anyone within a code conduct is not right.20:43
* flaper87 admits the obvious paste20:43
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ttxPersonally I prefer this kind of thing to be in the CoC because I think it applies to all of our community, beyond the TC's constituency20:43
thingeeWhat it's trying to capture I think is already within the code of conduct.20:43
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flaper87thingee: It's scattered in the CoC20:43
ttxAlso if we start tackling general personal behavior in community in the "principles" document, we'll end up copying all the CoC over20:43
ttxSo I'd rather draw the line and point from one to the other (the link is already there).20:44
thingeeflaper87: You can propose changes to the CoC sure.20:44
flaper87It's there but you have to read between lines to actually get to the "Assume Good faith" point20:44
flaper87thingee: yup, I mentioned that in one of my comments20:44
flaper87or in one meeting, can't recall20:44
flaper87point is. If we prefer to link the CoC then I think we can propose a change to the CoC20:44
annegentlethis is different from the CoC to me.20:44
ttxflaper87: we already linked the Coc20:45
flaper87but again, putting this in the CoC feels like forcing it to people20:45
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annegentleDefinitely all behavior should start from the CoC but this is a governance context document.20:45
flaper87which is the same problem we have with my proposal to begin with20:45
annegentleflaper87 so I'd advocate to have it be in this document20:45
ttxannegentle: why is it different from a CoC-style expectation ?20:46
flaper87annegentle: my preference goes to have it in this document20:46
edleafeYou can tell people how they must behave (CoC). You can't tell them how to think or feel (Assume Good Faith).20:46
ttxedleafe: Ah. Isee. Good distinction20:46
annegentlettx CoC's have enforcement rules. This is a principle20:46
thingeeedleafe: +10020:46
thingeethank you20:46
flaper87edleafe: loved the wording20:47
cdentthat's why I highlighted "we don't blame and shame" in my comment. That's a conduct20:47
annegentlewe're not going to report people for not assuming good faith20:47
ttxI'm not certain we can tell people how they should think in a "principles" document either20:47
flaper87cdent: that can be fixed, likely just poor wording on my side20:47
dtroyer_zzI think cdent pointed out one other reason why it is different from the CoC: including corporate behaviours here20:48
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ttxflaper87: maybe "try to assume good faith" is better then20:48
annegentlettx to me, this principles document tells people how to approach others in the context of OpenStack, and writing down that we all assume good faith is a principle "We should all assume good faith in our interactions"20:48
flaper87ttx: I guess20:48
flaper87We all fail to assume good faith from time to time20:48
dimsAre we trying to say that we all wear multiple hats, but we need to the right thing when we are thinking/working on openstack?20:49
flaper87I've failed20:49
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flaper87One good thing about this is that we can also link people to it20:49
ttxI fail to assume good faith and use wrong english words :)20:49
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flaper87ttx: ditto20:49
edleafettx: I assumed your good faith when reading your email today20:50
ttxflaper87: maybe we could reword it to include a sentence on being mindful of geographical difference etc20:50
flaper87To be honest, putting it there doesn't mean people will do it. I'd hope more folks would but that's just my personal hope/belief20:50
flaper87ttx: ++20:50
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jrollttx: +1, and cultures20:50
annegentleflaper87 I think it's about the "write expectations down"20:50
smcginnisI think the intro paragraph positions this well as "guiding principles that are used to inform and shape decisions"20:50
mtreinishflaper87: heh, but it means you can link to it :)20:50
ttxflaper87: let's see how we can tweak it to make it less of a behavior definition and more of an aspiring thing20:50
flaper87annegentle: that's what I want, that's the point20:50
flaper87mtreinish: right20:51
flaper87ttx: sounds good to me20:51
flaper87smcginnis: ++20:51
thingeettx: +120:51
ttx#info Work on wording to make it more aspirational and include being mindful of our language/geographical/cultural diversity20:52
dims+1 ttx20:52
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annegentleflaper87 ++ yep20:52
flaper87Also, it's fine if some folks don't want to assume good faith but it's not ok to make it public. So, aspiring to assume good faith is definitely the goal20:52
flaper87making it public is offensive for many cultures20:52
ttxWe might be able to avoid most of the CoC-like language in it, in which case I would not oppose it that much20:52
flaper87And by making it public I mean accussing people based on the personal preference to not assume good faith20:53
dhellmannmost of the other principles are either focused on leaders or on teams, not individual contributors. Maybe if it can be reframed a bit more that way that would make it feel like it fits better.20:53
ttxok, looks like we ahve some way forward20:53
flaper87thanks everyone20:53
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ttx#topic Open discussion20:53
*** openstack changes topic to "Open discussion (Meeting topic: tc)"20:53
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johnthetubaguyI think we are all pointing at a thing that we want to capture there, +1 capturing that20:53
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ttxElections are under way, vote if you haven't already. We'll hold the first meeting for the Ocata membership next week20:53
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dhellmannthe patchf for the wording tweaks on the tc-approved-release is up https://review.openstack.org/38206420:54
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ttxSmall reminder that there will be a BoD+TC+UC meeting in Barcelona on Monday afternoon, starting at 2:30pm, followed by dinner at 7:30pm20:54
annegentlerebase went fine on this one20:54
annegentle#link https://review.openstack.org/#/c/371538/20:54
ttxI'll send RSVPs over once elections are complete20:54
mtreinishdhellmann: I was actually working on adding a principle to say the way to implement change is individual contributors doing the work20:54
* flaper87 read patchf and thought that was a secret command to fix patches20:54
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mtreinishto try and capture that sentiment20:54
mtreinishI'm trying to come up with the right wording to express that thought clearly though :)20:54
dhellmannmtreinish : "we work together"20:54
ttxmtreinish: "Contribution Is Our Currency" ?20:55
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RockygOwn the change you want to happen20:55
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mtreinishheh, those are all better than my tenative title right now "The Mechanism for Change is People"20:55
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ttxI'm getting attached to our weird capitalization there20:55
johnthetubaguyI thought we had a patch up for that already, maybe from sdague?20:55
fungiit's worth noting that the civs maintainer reported cornell's mailservers are either deferring or dropping a lot of messages (hence the resend of all ballots), so lots of the electorate may not have received ballots still20:55
anteayamtreinish: ha ha ha20:56
smcginnisOpenStack is made out of people20:56
dhellmannfungi : is that software something we could host for ourselves?20:56
RockygSoylent green!!!!!20:56
mtreinishjohnthetubaguy: I think sdague complained about it on the original goals, but I haven't seen a patch for it20:56
ttxdhellmann: we could.20:56
anteayasmcginnis: so apparently is soylent green if you watch cloud atlas20:56
smcginnisRockyg: ;)20:56
dimsRockyg : you typed faster than me :)20:56
fungidhellmann: it is, but then we lose the current third party situation which sort of helps defend us from ourselves (granted the trade-off may be better than losing ballots)20:56
johnthetubaguymtreinish: I may have imagined it20:57
dhellmannfungi : yeah20:57
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ttxeveryone: please check the tentative cross-project workshop schedule and let me know if you spot hard conflicts20:57
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anteayadhellmann: it has come up before20:57
ttxNewton was a great TC session (it's also a great release, despite the general modd)20:58
anteayadhellmann: I think the loss of the independant third party would be large if we hosted it20:58
jrollttx: ++20:58
flaper87fungi: is it something we can contribute servers/cpu too? (admitelly, I'm not familiar with the problems they are haivng ?20:58
ttxSo as we wrap it up, please find the time to celebrate20:58
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dhellmannanteaya : makes sense. Still, if we've outgrown what they can support, it might be necessary.20:58
fungiflaper87: no, i don't think it's likely to be a resource issue20:58
annegentlettx agreed! Well done, all.20:58
ttxPeople are using that software everywhere for a lot of things, and they are getting happier and happier using it20:58
flaper87fungi: gotcha20:58
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fungiflaper87: and it's the cornell university mailservers in this case20:59
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flaper87fungi: oh, mmh. :(20:59
dhellmannttx: well said20:59
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flaper87ttx: ++20:59
fungiif through some strange turn of events i'm elected to a seat on the tc, i'm on vacation next week and so won't be around for the meeting20:59
flaper87ttx: group hug ?20:59
* flaper87 grabs ttx before he runs20:59
ttxThere is probably a chinese proverb with a mountain and a rock to express seeing only the negative aspects :)20:59
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ttx"Those who walk the mountain pay attention to the rocks" ?21:00
dimsfungi : thanks for the heads up. best wishes21:00
anteayattx: are you making up proverbs?21:00
ttxanteaya: I'm making up lots of things21:00
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edleafeThanks to all the outgoing TC members for their service!21:00
ttxand that is a wrap21:00
dolphmancient openstack proverb21:00
annegentlettx make it up as you go!21:00
anteayadhellmann: it is worth another discussion yeah21:00
*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"21:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 21:00:58 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)21:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-10-04-20.01.html21:01
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-10-04-20.01.txt21:01
openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/tc/2016/tc.2016-10-04-20.01.log.html21:01
ttxThanks everyone21:01
anteayadhellmann: hopefully we can get some logs from the civs maintainer to refrence in our next discussion21:01
anteayathanks ttx21:01
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b1airo<time of day greeting> oneswig21:01
oneswigThanks y'all, lets get on with the show21:01
oneswig#startmeeting scientific-wg21:01
openstackMeeting started Tue Oct  4 21:01:50 2016 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is oneswig. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.21:01
openstackUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.21:01
*** openstack changes topic to " (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:01
openstackThe meeting name has been set to 'scientific_wg'21:01
oneswig#chair b1airo21:01
openstackCurrent chairs: b1airo oneswig21:01
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trandleshey folks21:02
martialhello all21:02
oneswigFantastic to see you all21:02
oneswigb1airo: you want to drive today?21:02
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oneswigbefore we go too far, I forgot.21:03
oneswig#link Agenda for today https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group#IRC_Meeting_October_4th_201621:03
b1airoahh was just grabbing that too21:03
oneswigI am a back seat driver21:03
b1airo#topic Virtualisation Tuning21:03
*** openstack changes topic to "Virtualisation Tuning (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:03
b1airoi just thought i could briefly talk about some tuning we've been doing lately on our HPC cloud infra21:04
b1airoand share a few numbers21:04
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b1airowe've been using intel optimised linpack as our micro-benchmark21:05
oneswigA good stress of CPU and memory?  How dominant is network?21:05
b1airoon typical 2-socket NUMA systems with ~250GB ram and 12 cores per socket21:05
b1airowe're doing network separately still at the moment - this is just for CPU+mem21:06
b1airoso it's an SMP version of linpack21:06
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oneswigok good to know21:07
b1airoour hosts are running Trusty with Xenial (4.4) kernel and Mitaka cloudarchive Qemu/KVM (2.5)21:07
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oneswigHow sensitive are kernel and kvm versions do you think?21:08
b1airoguest OS is CentOS 7.2 (which is 3.10 kernel from memory...)21:08
clarkbout of curiousity why not xenial userland too?21:08
clarkbI guess its cloudarchive for the bits that are interesting21:08
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b1airoclarkb, you mean the hypervisor distro?21:08
b1airojust because we operate this as a Cell in the NeCTAR Research Cloud and we are on Liberty for most things21:09
jonmillsAre there specific advantages to a 4.4 kernel on the hypervisor?  I'm running CentOS 7.2 hypervisors, but I could install a 4.4 kernel from elrepo21:09
b1airoso once we upgrade to Mitaka in the next few months we'll be at the intersection point for the Trusty/Xenial change over21:09
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b1airojonmills, i think we initially upped the kernel for some PCI passthrough issues21:10
b1airothen we ended up on 4.4 recently because it has longer support being from Xenial as opposed to the shorter Ubuntu releases21:11
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b1airooneswig, as for the versions impacting performance, yes they do21:11
oneswigb1airo: are there specific features/versions to look for?21:12
b1airoi don't have any bisectional data for our setup but i have seen plenty of other reports of performance regressions in the late 3.xx kernels21:12
b1airoe.g. there is an article somewhere on phoronix looking at this21:12
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b1airowe were also interested in the kernel's automatic numa balancing, which was introduced late in 3 i think21:13
b1airoanyway, back to some numbers :-)21:13
b1airoso on the baremetal hypervisor we see e.g.:21:14
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martialb1airo: are you working on a publication on those tests ?21:14
b1airohmm not sure if this is gonna paste well21:14
b1airoi'll try, bare with...21:15
b1airoSize   LDA    Align.  Average  Maximal21:15
b1airo160    176    4       6.0014   7.025221:15
b1airo1600   1616   4       251.6930 258.518621:15
b1airo5600   5616   4       554.8785 557.157721:15
b1airo11200  11216  4       686.9769 688.343521:15
b1airo22000  22000  4       761.3992 768.769221:15
b1airo40000  40016  4       757.9887 758.685921:15
b1airo80000  80016  4       757.7656 759.182821:15
b1airo160000 160016 4       773.7305 773.983221:15
b1airooh nice work hexchat21:15
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b1airoso the last size (160000) is about 90% mem usage21:15
b1airothis is on E5-2680v3 CPUs21:16
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b1airoin a "naive" guest, i.e., no cpu or mem pinning and no topology exposure, so just a flat 24 CPUs/sockets, one NUMA node guest using 240GB ram21:17
georgem1b1airo: can you share the config used and some setup instructions? it would be interesting to run on our systems as well21:18
b1airoSize   LDA    Align.  Average  Maximal21:18
b1airo160    176    4       1.9916   3.346221:18
b1airo1600   1616   4       209.0969 248.560421:18
b1airo5600   5616   4       438.6423 441.874621:18
b1airo11200  11216  4       545.3753 546.703121:18
b1airo22000  22000  4       490.6886 494.071421:18
b1airo40000  40016  4       487.2085 489.211121:18
b1airo80000  80016  4       534.8873 544.370121:18
b1airo160000 160016 4       606.1984 607.259321:18
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jmlowehi, sorry I'm late21:18
b1airogeorgem1, sure it's pretty easy, will get to that in a sec...21:18
oneswigInteresting that you get maximum performance with such large blocks, or am I misreading the parameters?21:18
oneswighi jmlowe21:18
b1airooneswig, i'm no linpack guru, just going by the readme to set it up21:19
b1airobut my colleagues have independently come up with the same sort of config21:19
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b1airoand here's the money shot - guest with cpu and mem pinning and topology exposed:21:19
trandlesblairo: is KSM enabled?21:20
b1airoSize   LDA    Align.  Average  Maximal21:20
b1airo160    176    4       4.9478   7.231521:20
b1airo1600   1616   4       247.3868 258.322121:20
b1airo5600   5616   4       548.8194 551.762821:20
b1airo11200  11216  4       667.9128 672.607921:20
b1airo22000  22000  4       740.7616 752.166021:20
b1airo40000  40016  4       756.2580 758.018721:20
b1airo80000  80016  4       754.5520 754.763521:20
b1airo160000 160016 4       767.8318 767.942621:20
jmlowewe should publish the tarball of the linpack we used to benchmark for acceptance21:20
b1airotrandles, no KSM and THP disabled21:20
b1airoso this is with regular 4K pages21:21
oneswigNice work b1airo21:21
anteayafor reference if you need to post this kind of data into another channel please use a pastebin service, like paste.openstack.org21:21
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anteayafine for your own meeting but others may not like it so much in other channels21:21
anteayaand nice work b1airo21:21
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jonmillsSo is there a published cheatsheet to produce these nice results?21:21
b1airoanteaya, sure i was expecting to have to do it to get it formatted nicely but looks ok here21:22
anteayait does so21:22
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b1airojonmills, yes i think we can add this into the HPC whitepaper21:22
oneswigb1airo: sounds like a good idea to me, but how soon could you document?21:23
georgem1cool indeed21:23
b1airobut i'm also going to add something to the hypervisor tuning guide21:23
b1airogeorgem1, here's the config...21:23
b1airo$ cat lininput_xeon6421:23
b1airoSample Intel(R) Optimized LINPACK Benchmark data file (lininput_xeon64)21:23
b1airoIntel(R) Optimized LINPACK Benchmark data21:23
b1airo8                     # number of tests21:23
b1airo160 1600 5600 11200 22000 40000 80000 160000 # problem sizes21:23
b1airo176 1616 5616 11216 22000 40016 80016 160016 # leading dimensions21:23
b1airo5 5 5 5 5 5 3 3 # times to run a test21:23
b1airo4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 # alignment values (in KBytes)21:23
b1airousing intel mkl benchmarks (l_mklb_p_2017.0.010.tgz)21:24
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georgem1I'll get off the train in 10 min :(21:25
b1airospecifically benchmarks_2017/linux/mkl/benchmarks/linpack/runme_xeon6421:25
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b1airothis seems to be a nice test because it is a portable black box21:25
martialso CPU only, no Phi ?21:25
oneswigb1airo: what config do you apply outside of the OpenStack domain?21:25
anteayageorgem1: you can read the channel log here: http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-meeting/%23openstack-meeting.2016-10-04.log.html21:26
b1airowe don't have any Phis, got a bunch of K80s though21:26
georgem1I know, but it's not the same21:26
anteayageorgem1: indeed21:26
georgem1everybody got the hotel booked for Barcelona?21:26
b1airoin relation to the hypervisor tuning guide i think we need a set of micro-benchmarks that can be commonly used to verify tuning21:27
jmloweI'm in the W21:27
b1airogeorgem1, yes - i think i was very lucky to get the last room at the SB21:27
georgem1nice, I'll be 1 km away from the conference site21:27
b1airoso i'm interested in collecting suggestions for such benchmarks21:28
oneswigA good city for walking I believe :-)21:28
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oneswigb1airo: did you figure out your issues with gpu direct virtualised?21:28
rbuddengeorgem1: yep, i’m booked the hilton21:28
b1airoi haven't done anything with the tuning guide this cycle but i intend to chat with interested folks in barcelona about what should happen - i'm of the opinion it could because a repo of scripts and benchmarks21:28
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b1airoany prose can go into the admin/ops guide21:29
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b1airoso that brings us to:21:29
b1airo#topic Barcelona activities and WG space etc21:29
*** openstack changes topic to "Barcelona activities and WG space etc (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:29
b1airowe heard back from the summit folks that a bigger room became available21:30
b1airoso looks tentatively like we have a 100 person capacity room on Tues and Weds at (i think...) 2:45pm21:31
b1airooneswig, that right?21:31
oneswigwasn't it one or the other? let me check21:31
georgem1I'm out but I'll check the meeting logs later21:32
martialby georgem121:32
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b1airothanks georgem1 !21:32
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martial(sigh can not type anymore)21:32
oneswigIts 2x 40 minute slots - you're right21:33
oneswig2:15pm Tuesday and 2:15pm Wednesday21:33
oneswigHow does that look on the schedule?21:33
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b1airoi think it's ok - only issue is the clash with the long Ops session on Tues arvo21:34
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oneswigIt's quite an unfortunate conflict21:34
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b1airoi know we have a few folks who will be torn between the two, but the Ops session goes most of the arvo so folks can always join us initially and then move on to that21:34
oneswigIs the ops session close by?21:35
b1airogood question...21:35
oneswigOne alternative - a smaller session (30 people) for committee meeting on Wednesday morning and a larger 100 session Wednesday afternoon for the BoF21:35
dfflandersWhat is the divide between the two sesh agenda-wise?21:35
oneswigKeeps Tuesday clear21:35
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b1airoit's still TBA by the looks of it21:36
oneswigdfflanders: one's committee meeting, the other's BoF - procedural vs open house I'd guess21:36
dfflanders:thumbs up:21:36
dfflandersetherpad for listing these options and starting to plan?21:37
b1airoyou did create one already didn't you oneswig21:37
oneswig1 sec, I'll dig it out21:37
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oneswignot having much luck here...21:39
oneswigI'll keep looking, it was agenda items for the committee meeting21:39
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b1airoshould be in last week's log21:40
oneswig#link Barcelona agenda items for committee meeting https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-barcelona-agenda21:40
oneswigthanks b1airo, exactly where it was21:40
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b1airodfflanders, i figure this is what we'll flesh out properly on saturday21:41
oneswigNot much there at present but it's a 40 minute meeting anyway21:41
b1airo(b4 the summit)21:41
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dfflandersblair, +121:42
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oneswigb1airo: sounds good to me21:42
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b1airobetter scoot along here...21:42
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b1airo#Topic Scientific OpenStack BoF21:42
*** openstack changes topic to "Scientific OpenStack BoF (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:42
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b1airowe have had a few volunteers keen to do lightening talks in the BoF which is great, but I don't think we've actually started recording that to organise things yet?21:43
oneswigWhen we've got the slot booked for the BoF, we should also get the lightning talks nailed - think it might need ot happen in that order21:43
b1airo(at least i haven't :-)21:43
trandlesis this the Summit BoF or SC BoF?21:44
b1airofair enough, so should we discuss the time slots one last time then?21:44
oneswigPerhaps whatever we do for the meeting, we could fix the bof for Wednesday afternoon in the 100-seater room21:44
b1airotrandles, Summit21:44
b1airooneswig, yes of course21:44
b1airosilly me21:44
oneswigOK, if we do that I'll go to the list and do a "CFP"...21:45
oneswig#action oneswig (carried over from last week) fix the BoF timeslot and call for lightning talks21:45
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dfflandersIf there is a particularly good lightning talk let's plan on getting it recorded somehow as BoF and WG rooms are not auto recorded... If nothing else I can grab a goPro and we can ad hoc it in the hall ;-)21:46
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b1airodfflanders, you could live tweet it :-P21:46
b1airo#topic Subsidy for social (Thursday night)21:47
*** openstack changes topic to "Subsidy for social (Thursday night) (Meeting topic: scientific-wg)"21:47
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dfflandersdon't tease me blairo you know how I love a good live tweeting ;-)21:47
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oneswigOK we've got a small decision to take wrt the social evening21:47
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oneswigIt's been really popular!21:47
b1airoso far it's only oneswig's charms that have literally paid off21:47
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oneswigWe have approaching 50 people down for it21:48
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oneswigAnd subsidy for 3021:48
b1airoi have tried but my dell contact has gone mysteriously silent21:48
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oneswigVendors eh.21:48
jmlowethey do that sometimes even when you are trying to give them money21:49
b1airoi'll give redhat one last push21:49
dfflandershow much more money is needed per head?21:49
oneswigWe'd like to propose going for the bigger event and having people make a small contribution.21:49
oneswig€40 per head21:49
b1airoso we're currently short 800 ?21:49
oneswigThat's for food and drink (unspecified how much drink, cava + red wine + mineral water)21:50
oneswigmight be just shy of that.21:50
b1airothough likely to have more register if we were to promote it a little more, e.g. in the summit sessions21:50
oneswigb1airo: true but eventually we'll hit a limit with the restaurant21:51
oneswigCurrently we're looking at roughly €16/head cost21:52
oneswigHow do people feel about that?21:52
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jmloweI'm good with that21:52
martialI am confused, was it 40 or 16 ?21:52
martialI am okay with either, personally21:52
oneswig40 total, 16 after subsidy21:52
martialmight want to contact the people that already registered is all21:53
oneswigmartial: I'll mail all people with tickets and confirm once we are confirmed21:53
oneswigshould be any day I think21:53
rbuddeni’m good with that as well21:53
oneswigexcellent thanks all21:54
b1airoi doubt anyone will mind, it's just a question of how we organise the logistics...?21:54
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oneswigPayment is going to be difficult, and receipts even more so.  I'll work it with the restaurant21:55
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b1airooneswig, were you thinking of having people pay on the evening? maybe we can do it via eventbrite?21:55
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jmloweI don't like to carry cash, so a card friendly solution would be appreciated21:55
rbuddenjmlowe: +1 I rarely carry cash if at all possible21:55
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rbuddeneventbrite seems like a simple solution to that21:56
rbuddenas b1airo suggested21:56
oneswigb1airo: eventbrite might solve it.  Good plan.  Might make a second event for which we'd all get tickets21:56
martialoneswig: yes a new replacement event might well be the better solution for this21:56
b1airoyeah i think that would simplify it, might add a small transaction fee of course, but again i don't think any of us mind as it's mostly work paying :-)21:57
oneswigGrand, I like it.  I'll duplicate.  Eventbrite take a small cut but it's worth it.21:57
oneswig#action oneswig to mail ticketholders and arrange payment via eventbrite21:58
dfflandersyou could add a second ticket to the same eventbrite... end 'sales' on the first ticket. save minting new URL? /thinkingOutLoud21:58
b1airosounds like you have been around this rodeo dfflanders21:58
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oneswigdfflanders: sounds like a good plan but we'll want all the people currently with tickets to get first dibs21:58
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b1airook well we have a plan there, let's action it next week oneswig ?21:59
oneswigOK b1airo agreed21:59
b1airogive us another few days to see whether we can shake any change loose from the vendors21:59
b1airoyep, that's a wrap!21:59
oneswigthanks b1airo, great session21:59
oneswiglook forward to your report :-)22:00
dfflandersl8er ya'll22:00
b1airothanks all!22:00
rbuddencatch ya’ll later!22:00
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*** openstack changes topic to "OpenStack Meetings || https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings"22:00
openstackMeeting ended Tue Oct  4 22:00:28 2016 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)22:00
openstackMinutes:        http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-10-04-21.01.html22:00
openstackMinutes (text): http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-10-04-21.01.txt22:00
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openstackLog:            http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/meetings/scientific_wg/2016/scientific_wg.2016-10-04-21.01.log.html22:00
rbuddenoh, oneswig / b1airo, one question22:00
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rbuddendo we have an etherpad or something similar with IRC name -> Name/Company?22:01
b1airooneswig has gone already by the looks22:01
rbuddenI was curious22:01
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rbuddenif for the regulars on here we had a way to get in email contact, etc.22:01
rbuddenif necessary22:01
b1aironot an etherpad no, but we should make one - i find myself getting confused too22:01
martialI think there was one at the original etherpad made from the first meeting in Austin22:01
rbuddenok, so it’s not just me ;)22:01
b1airothat's right martial22:01
rbuddenyes, but i don’t believe it had IRC handle22:02
martialit is a loooonnnggg list :)22:02
rbuddenunless i’m mistaken22:02
martialrbudden: you are likely right22:02
b1airooneswig is very good on the names but i personally haven't linked in IRC handles to my address book22:02
rbuddenmight just be me and the context switching between email/irc i often find myself in need of a lookup table22:02
b1airoi'll take an action to create one and add it to the next agenda22:03
rbuddenjust a thought22:03
rbuddencool, thx22:03
martialrbudden: just checked and you are correct, no IRC nick at https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/scientific-wg-austin-summit-agenda22:03
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rbuddenmartial: thanks for the link, that’s at least a good etherpad to bookmark22:04
b1airoa'ight, catch you later - thanks folks!22:04
rbuddenhave a good day everyone22:04
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martialrbudden: it is linked in the wg page at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Scientific_working_group22:04
martialthanks, good bye all22:04
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