| *** abhishekk is now known as akekane|home | 03:55 | |
| *** akekane|home is now known as abhishekk | 03:55 | |
| *** akekane_ is now known as abhishekk | 06:01 | |
| *** iurygregory_ is now known as iurygregory | 06:28 | |
| *** rpittau|afk is now known as rpittau | 07:24 | |
| opendevreview | Tobias Urdin proposed openstack/election master: Adding Tobias Urdin candidacy for Puppet OpenStack https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/806099 | 07:41 |
|---|---|---|
| opendevreview | Tobias Urdin proposed openstack/election master: Adding Tobias Urdin candidacy for Puppet OpenStack https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/806099 | 07:42 |
| *** ykarel is now known as ykarel|lunch | 08:28 | |
| opendevreview | Tobias Urdin proposed openstack/election master: Adding Tobias Urdin candidacy for Puppet OpenStack https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/806099 | 08:33 |
| yoctozepto | yeas, puppet covered | 09:39 |
| *** ykarel|lunch is now known as ykarel | 10:18 | |
| opendevreview | Martin Chacon Piza proposed openstack/election master: Adding Martin Chacon Piza candidacy for Monasca PTL for Y https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/election/+/806145 | 11:49 |
| fungi | and monasca now | 12:16 |
| yoctozepto | \o/ | 12:58 |
| yoctozepto | only sahara and adjutant remain entirely leaderless; zun with odd situation (ptl candidate not contributing) | 13:02 |
| yoctozepto | cleaned up the etherpad | 13:02 |
| mnaser | which is at https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/yoga-leaderless for those who are trying to fidn it again (: | 13:02 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 13:04 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser in yoctozepto's head | 13:05 |
| mnaser | :D | 13:05 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: looks like mostly maintenance | 13:07 |
| yoctozepto | I mean sahara | 13:07 |
| mnaser | yeah | 13:07 |
| yoctozepto | mhm | 13:07 |
| yoctozepto | for adjutant it's hard to tell who to ask as it really looks like it just decided to die | 13:09 |
| yoctozepto | but sahara had red hat's interest so I guess we can reach out to them, especially tosky | 13:09 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: you are the best candidate for sahara ptl, are you up to the task? ;p | 13:09 |
| yoctozepto | or in other words: is there a plan in red hat to continue supporting sahara in this way or another? | 13:10 |
| tosky | yoctozepto: in the last year (almost two) Jeremy and I have supported Sahara outside our work duties | 13:24 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: I see; then I understand you are not planning to continue? | 13:26 |
| tosky | yoctozepto: Jeremy has sent out an email to the community, there have been some limited but positive answers, so it would be a "keep-alive" position until there are some more contributors | 13:26 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: ack, I see; we can also move it out of governance to send a stronger signal that it's struggling | 13:26 |
| tosky | I'm still around and I've tried to keep up with the community changes (I still need to rip out the lower-constraint jobs from the older branches, but master is fine) | 13:26 |
| yoctozepto | but I believe it fell to the curse of k8s replacing this kind of services, similarly to murano | 13:27 |
| tosky | there are many possibilities: leaderless project, transitional PTL, and then various outcome (stop the development before Xena, or immediately after Xena, or continue with more contributions) | 13:27 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: from my PoV, it's mostly up to you to decide on the fate of this project ;d | 13:27 |
| tosky | I think a strong signal that there is a need for contributors should go out, but I'm not sure which other ways than the email Jeremy sent out | 13:28 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: yeah, but leaderless means distributed and for that we need more folks to make sense | 13:28 |
| yoctozepto | we will surely discuss sahara with the rest of tc | 13:28 |
| yoctozepto | it would help if you could join us during our meeting in 1:30 h | 13:29 |
| tosky | with a strong messaging about "we need people now or never" maybe people will step up, or signal there is no interest | 13:29 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: ++ | 13:29 |
| yoctozepto | cc'ing jeremyfreudberg on above ^^ | 13:29 |
| tosky | (on the other hand, I've seen projects in even worst shape than sahara being kept alive as openstack.org for longer...) | 13:29 |
| yoctozepto | (that true) | 13:30 |
| tosky | without pointing fingers, but I'm still waiting for the new murano people to port the remaining legacy zuul job in murano-ui | 13:31 |
| tosky | and I've had a few backports of zuulv3 patches open in freezer/ussuri for a while | 13:32 |
| tosky | but yeah | 13:32 |
| yoctozepto | tosky: *cough* you have just mentioned the two projects I had in mind *cough* | 13:32 |
| mnaser | is there a distro that ships sahara as part of it's services | 13:36 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: all 3 main ones do | 13:38 |
| yoctozepto | (kolla knows) | 13:39 |
| fungi | two i know how to search include sahara: https://packages.debian.org/sahara https://packages.ubuntu.com/sahara | 13:45 |
| yoctozepto | https://www.openstack.org/analytics | 13:45 |
| yoctozepto | low share of usage | 13:45 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: yeah, centos/rdo also do, hence 3 main ones | 13:46 |
| fungi | cool, i mainly just don't know how to search their package databases easily ;) | 13:46 |
| * yoctozepto also dislikes the fact that centos cannot be easily searched | 13:46 | |
| yoctozepto | fungi: I know by means of being kolla core | 13:46 |
| yoctozepto | would not othewise | 13:46 |
| mnaser | yoctozepto, fungi: i was thinking who actually shipped it with some form of commercial support (i.e. will need to have folks on payroll maintaining those stuff) | 13:59 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: ah, openstack distributions, ack | 14:01 |
| fungi | more specifically commercial openstack distributions i guess. community-supported distributions are clearly unimportant ;) | 14:02 |
| mnaser | fungi: i'm not saying that, but i think we can see there is no community investment right now :p | 14:10 |
| gmann | or they might have forked it and maintaining with modification. but again that case too community version is not usable for them for upgrade or so unless they have done modification in much smart way | 14:11 |
| gmann | i remember swift used in that way | 14:12 |
| fungi | mnaser: maybe, though on the whole what tends to happen with community-supported distributions is that if we get contributions upstream it's from the users of those distributions, not so much from the package maintainers themselves | 14:13 |
| gmann | tosky: even we go for DPL model as you know you might end up doing all the work as different liaison. | 14:13 |
| fungi | i agree in this case we're seeing very low contribution rates in general, so seems like just generally low amounts of interest in helping develop the service | 14:14 |
| gmann | fungi: that depends on contract or maintenance cost distributor provide | 14:14 |
| fungi | whether it's from commercial distros, users of community distros, or whatever | 14:14 |
| fungi | gmann: what depends on contract or maintenance cost? i don't follow | 14:15 |
| gmann | fungi: i mean who help in contribution either distributor or user | 14:15 |
| fungi | oh, sure | 14:16 |
| gmann | but I do not think it is too bad or end-time to go out of governance and if anyone using then they can come back and re-add like tap-as-a-service | 14:16 |
| gmann | even it is good signal | 14:16 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: re community openstack distros - from the ones I know only charms do not support sahara; kolla, osa, helm, tripleo, debian-osi and puppet all support sahara as far as I can tell | 14:48 |
| mnaser | yoctozepto: i think 'support' is a loaded term | 14:52 |
| mnaser | "supports letting you install $service" vs "provides support/fixes/improvements for $service" | 14:53 |
| fungi | even we don't "support" our software in that second sense | 14:53 |
| fungi | our community as a whole doesn't, i mean | 14:53 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 14:54 |
| yoctozepto | it was obviously the 1st variant that I meant | 14:54 |
| yoctozepto | I'm checking whether stackhpc offers sahara in the 2nd sense | 14:55 |
| yoctozepto | (mostly out of curiosity though) | 14:55 |
| yoctozepto | the answer is "no" | 14:57 |
| yoctozepto | ok, the meeting's incoming | 14:59 |
| gmann | #startmeeting tc | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Thu Aug 26 15:00:13 2021 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gmann. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 15:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 15:00 |
| gmann | #topic Roll call | 15:00 |
| gmann | tc-members: meeting time | 15:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 15:00 |
| jungleboyj | o/ | 15:00 |
| ricolin | o/ | 15:01 |
| dansmith | o/ | 15:01 |
| gmann | absence: Belmiro Moreira (belmoreira) - PTO | 15:01 |
| * jungleboyj is back | 15:02 | |
| spotz_ | o/ | 15:02 |
| yoctozepto | o/ | 15:02 |
| jungleboyj | after surviving Tropical Storm Fred | 15:02 |
| spotz_ | Belmiro was online yesterday | 15:02 |
| yoctozepto | :O | 15:02 |
| gmann | let's start | 15:02 |
| gmann | #link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee#Agenda_Suggestions | 15:02 |
| gmann | today agenda ^^ | 15:03 |
| gmann | #topic Follow up on past action items | 15:03 |
| gmann | gmann to add py3.6 testing plan (after its EOL -Dec 2021) in PTG etherpad | 15:03 |
| gmann | that is done | 15:03 |
| mnaser | hello all | 15:03 |
| gmann | #topic Gate health check (dansmith/yoctozepto) | 15:04 |
| dansmith | so, | 15:04 |
| dansmith | definitely a lot of rush load starting I think | 15:04 |
| dansmith | we've noticed a bunch of timeouts, | 15:04 |
| yoctozepto | yeah, it's starting to get hot | 15:04 |
| dansmith | both pip related and some like failures to do certain operations | 15:04 |
| dansmith | I saw at least one this morning that had either a rabbit failure, or some dropped mq messages or something | 15:05 |
| fungi | we're also seeing node quota backlogs during some times of day | 15:05 |
| gmann | release time | 15:05 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 15:05 |
| dansmith | not sure that's really anything more than "running hot" as yoctozepto says, but... it's definitely slowing things down | 15:05 |
| dansmith | gmann: yep | 15:05 |
| fungi | some of our cloud donors put our account on dedicated host aggregates, and our workloads become their own noisy neighbors, slowing down things like i/o | 15:05 |
| dansmith | I don't blame them.. is that recent? | 15:06 |
| fungi | not recent at all, no | 15:06 |
| dansmith | oh okay | 15:06 |
| fungi | but we only see the impact when we're "running hot" | 15:06 |
| dansmith | well, that feeds into our release "running hot" causing some things like rabbit fails | 15:06 |
| dansmith | yeah | 15:06 |
| fungi | once that oversubscription is really becoming a constraint on the provider side | 15:06 |
| fungi | and that makes jobs take longer | 15:07 |
| * dansmith notes yoctozepto has coined a term that will live in infamy | 15:07 | |
| mnaser | :D | 15:07 |
| mnaser | do we have temp settings :P | 15:07 |
| fungi | as in thermocouples? | 15:08 |
| fungi | oh, running hot, i get it | 15:08 |
| jungleboyj | The opposite of Cool Runnings | 15:08 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith ++ | 15:08 |
| gmann | what we can do in this? putting experimental pipeline or so on hold at 'running hot :)' time? but they might not be more. | 15:08 |
| dansmith | I dunno really | 15:08 |
| dansmith | knowing that the failures are a result of load helps to avoid getting too concerned at least | 15:09 |
| fungi | we could lower our quotas in providers where we see this issue is especially pronounced, maybe, but scheduling isn't always going to evenly distribute our workload across available hosts either so that may not help | 15:09 |
| fungi | (scheduling on the nova/placement side in the provider i mean) | 15:10 |
| dansmith | yeah, I dunno | 15:10 |
| yoctozepto | does it happens so that all jobs from one patchset go to one provider? | 15:10 |
| yoctozepto | or are they scattered? | 15:10 |
| * yoctozepto never remembers | 15:11 | |
| gmann | I think scattered ? | 15:11 |
| fungi | they're scattered, but nodes in a multi-node job all get satisfied from the same provider | 15:11 |
| yoctozepto | yeah, ok | 15:11 |
| gmann | let's see next week how it is and then we can discuss if anything can be done or just live with that | 15:12 |
| gmann | anything else on gate health ? | 15:12 |
| gmann | #topic Xena Cycle Tracker | 15:13 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-tracker | 15:13 |
| gmann | I have divided it in pending and completed items | 15:13 |
| gmann | as we are very close to finish the Xena cycle, let's iterate on pending one | 15:13 |
| gmann | 1. TC members to drive the Y cycle community wide goal | 15:13 |
| gmann | ricolin: diablo_rojo_phone ^^ | 15:14 |
| gmann | secure RBAC goal is selected at least. | 15:14 |
| ricolin | I think it a little depends on the painpoint one | 15:14 |
| ricolin | but do we always need two goal in a cycle? | 15:15 |
| gmann | ricolin: but if we want to select more than one goal right? | 15:15 |
| gmann | ricolin: no, it can be zero or more | 15:15 |
| ricolin | I kind of wondering about pain point | 15:15 |
| gmann | I prefer to be on in Yoga but that is something we can discuss in PTG also once we have more candidate | 15:15 |
| ricolin | for tls support in gate, in can be done without make it a goal IMO | 15:15 |
| gmann | ricolin: we will discuss pain point things in next topic | 15:16 |
| ricolin | At least it's not a problem for every team | 15:16 |
| gmann | ricolin: yeah, it does not need to be goal as such | 15:16 |
| gmann | let's see how many candidate we have and then in PTG we can check them and close this | 15:16 |
| jungleboyj | Interesting how hard it is to collect pain points. Is everyone in too much pain to respond or ... ? | 15:16 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: yes :) | 15:17 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: i mean there are lot of painpoint listed in etherpad | 15:17 |
| ricolin | I think it's up to how we can actually driving that and make sense for project teams:) | 15:17 |
| gmann | yeah. anyways let's discuss that in separate topic we have for that | 15:17 |
| gmann | 2. Audit and finish the previous cycle pending community-wide goal work | 15:17 |
| gmann | contributor guide is almost done, I will check if anything pending | 15:18 |
| spotz_ | ;or they’re not on the community and have no clue we’re asking | 15:18 |
| gmann | pdf-guide is something I will start in Yoga, no bandwidth in Xena. | 15:18 |
| gmann | 3. Review the tags for usefulness and cleanup. Based on what left, make a decision on whether to continue the tag framework based or not. | 15:18 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: jungleboyj ^^ | 15:18 |
| jungleboyj | gmann: Haven't had a chance to engage on that. | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | me neither | 15:19 |
| jungleboyj | Will see if I can make some time to look at that in the coming week. | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | I think it aligns with what we want to discuss in the ptg | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | regarding project quality | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | we might want to change the framework | 15:19 |
| jungleboyj | So, it would be good to get the leg work done before the PTG. | 15:19 |
| yoctozepto | so it would be good to start something earlier | 15:19 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: if we can have some re-work/feedback on that then we can discuss more | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | yeah, mindshare ++ | 15:20 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | yeah | 15:20 |
| gmann | thanks. please add 'Status' there once you start it, | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | (and then folks come around and think tc is just throwing "yeahs" around) | 15:20 |
| yoctozepto | ok | 15:20 |
| gmann | 4. Getting projects to broadast out/mentor | 15:20 |
| gmann | spotz: belmoreira ^^ | 15:21 |
| * dansmith says nuke the tags | 15:21 | |
| jungleboyj | Ok. yoctozepto let's get some notes put together. | 15:21 |
| yoctozepto | ( jungleboyj: yeah, let's catch up next week ) | 15:21 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: +1, thanks that will be helpful . may be start a separate etherpad or so | 15:21 |
| yoctozepto | ( dansmith: that's the plan +/- ) | 15:21 |
| dansmith | le woot | 15:22 |
| jungleboyj | yoctozepto: __ | 15:22 |
| gmann | on Brpadcastmentor, same spotz please add note if you are planning to do this one | 15:22 |
| gmann | 5. Stable core team process change | 15:22 |
| jungleboyj | yoctozepto: ++ | 15:22 |
| gmann | this is imp | 15:22 |
| gmann | mnaser: jungleboyj ^^ | 15:22 |
| mnaser | sorry, i've dropped the ball on this, i'm going to get write something up | 15:22 |
| mnaser | do we have some etherpad with context that i can use | 15:23 |
| gmann | mnaser: in Xena PTG etherpad | 15:23 |
| spotz_ | I have the info will pull addresses from election repo:5 | 15:23 |
| mnaser | ok | 15:23 |
| jungleboyj | mnaser: Let me know when you have something and I can help review. | 15:23 |
| gmann | L320 https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-xena-ptg | 15:23 |
| gmann | added in racking etherpad too | 15:24 |
| gmann | mnaser: jungleboyj thanks | 15:24 |
| gmann | 6. Project Health checks: | 15:24 |
| gmann | ricolin: belmoreira ^^ | 15:24 |
| gmann | this is needed to remove the TC liaison things | 15:25 |
| ricolin | That is not yet starts, I will start take some looks into it | 15:25 |
| gmann | ricolin: thanks, please add note also in tracking etherpad | 15:26 |
| gmann | rest other are done, thanks for those. | 15:26 |
| ricolin | okay | 15:26 |
| gmann | moving next. | 15:26 |
| gmann | #topic Moving weekly meetings to video/voice calls. | 15:26 |
| gmann | so we discussed this in last week meeting and agreed on doing it monthly for now | 15:26 |
| gmann | and in PTG, we will discuss based on our experience | 15:27 |
| gmann | today we need to decide the channel/tool for video call. | 15:27 |
| jungleboyj | Interesting. Cinder has been doing this as well. | 15:27 |
| gmann | and time: which i propose as next week meeting (1st meeting of month) as video call | 15:27 |
| gmann | jungleboyj: yeah. | 15:28 |
| yoctozepto | gmann ++ | 15:29 |
| dansmith | gmann: sounds good to me | 15:29 |
| dansmith | what are the tool options? gmeet and zoom I assume? | 15:29 |
| gmann | mnaser: you suggested google meet last time. or any other tool ? | 15:29 |
| gmann | dansmith: yeah | 15:29 |
| dansmith | I'm pro gmeet | 15:29 |
| mnaser | i did suggest google meet because i think it has really good transcription | 15:29 |
| gmann | zoom is 40 min restriction unless paid subscription | 15:30 |
| mnaser | we dont use zoom anymore so i cant help with that | 15:30 |
| mnaser | but if people are really tied to zoom i think oif uses it | 15:30 |
| dansmith | oh I thought the foundation would zoom us up | 15:31 |
| yoctozepto | gmeet sounds fine | 15:31 |
| mnaser | so we could get a room easily | 15:31 |
| dansmith | but in that case, gmeet | 15:31 |
| spotz_ | Maybe we could get a Foundation room? | 15:31 |
| mnaser | but yes, for me, i prefer gmeet | 15:31 |
| yoctozepto | spotz_: no need if we prefer gmeet | 15:31 |
| ricolin | +1 on transcription | 15:31 |
| yoctozepto | ^ | 15:31 |
| ricolin | function | 15:31 |
| spotz_ | I’m good with either | 15:31 |
| jungleboyj | I am find with either as well. | 15:31 |
| gmann | only thing in gmeet is restricted access from china or other company proxy especially asia side | 15:32 |
| jungleboyj | Oh yeah. | 15:32 |
| yoctozepto | jungleboyj: it's: find - found - found ;-) | 15:32 |
| dansmith | guh | 15:32 |
| gmann | but we do not have much audience from there in TC meeting and ricolin can access so ... | 15:32 |
| dansmith | ++ | 15:32 |
| jungleboyj | :-) | 15:32 |
| ricolin | must said, zoom is not working well for company proxy in China too | 15:33 |
| gmann | ohk | 15:33 |
| yoctozepto | ok, so it's decided | 15:33 |
| fungi | the counterpoint is that the reason zoom works from mainland china is that zoom cooperates with the chinese government to allow them to watch/listen/record any zoom calls their residents participate in | 15:33 |
| jungleboyj | *smh* | 15:34 |
| gmann | let's go with gmeet as majority says. and we can discuss in PTG if any objection on access things | 15:34 |
| spotz_ | So damned if you do and damned if you don’t | 15:34 |
| gmann | I will prepare the schedule and send | 15:34 |
| gmann | anything else on this? | 15:34 |
| gmann | #topic Next step on pain points from projects/SIGs/pop-up (ricolin) | 15:35 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/pain-point-elimination | 15:35 |
| gmann | we do not need to discuss all pain point here but decide on how to proceed on these | 15:35 |
| gmann | having separate brainstrom sessions or so or in PTG > | 15:35 |
| ricolin | And as we try to survey those data and see if it can be a goal, that means we need to find some reasonable suggestions for project teams. | 15:35 |
| ricolin | And encourage them to pick up one from the list and targeting it across cycles | 15:35 |
| gmann | for goal, we need some common pain point applicable to majority of projects | 15:36 |
| mnaser | it seems hard to find a pattern | 15:37 |
| jungleboyj | Oh, we actually do have quite a few pain points in here. | 15:37 |
| gmann | but yes, if we can help on individual project specific pain point then it will be great | 15:37 |
| ricolin | That leave us only core team size issue?:/ | 15:37 |
| gmann | ricolin: yeah | 15:37 |
| gmann | ricolin: so idea here is 'how TC can help on those' right? | 15:38 |
| gmann | may be we can start sorting such things which we can help and leaving project specific pain point which they have to work on mostly ? | 15:38 |
| ricolin | or how TC can get project team's interests to working and pickup some items IMO | 15:38 |
| gmann | humm | 15:39 |
| yoctozepto | I can see one pattern - rmq | 15:39 |
| mnaser | gosh yes | 15:39 |
| yoctozepto | does tc see a way to escape this trap? | 15:39 |
| mnaser | if we can have a hybrid rabbitmq/grpc driver or something | 15:40 |
| yoctozepto | it should be coordinated at oslo's level | 15:40 |
| dansmith | it already is | 15:40 |
| mnaser | that would make me the happiest person on earth :-) | 15:40 |
| yoctozepto | so tc-wise makes sense to touch it? | 15:40 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: what do you mean? | 15:40 |
| dansmith | as noted, things like nova depend on o.msg not rabbit itself | 15:40 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: agree | 15:40 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: ah, you replied to "it should be coordinated at oslo's level" before I ended the sentence, ok | 15:40 |
| dansmith | yes | 15:41 |
| yoctozepto | ok,ok | 15:41 |
| gmann | :) so doing it in o.m side ? | 15:41 |
| mnaser | which would be a bit of a group effort i guess | 15:41 |
| yoctozepto | yeah, I was just saying that it's openstack-wide any way we look at it | 15:41 |
| ricolin | mnaser, +1 | 15:41 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 15:41 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:41 |
| dansmith | I feel like this is a "obviously the grass would be greener with a different tool" sort of thing | 15:42 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: ask any operator about the worst part of openstack deployment (-: | 15:42 |
| * fungi tries to forget the proton replacement work | 15:42 | |
| mnaser | dansmith: rabbitmq is _pain_ | 15:42 |
| bnemec | Fair warning: We've lost basically all of our messaging experts in Oslo over the past couple of years. | 15:42 |
| dansmith | yoctozepto: yeah totally, but I need to be convinced that replacing it just magically makes that better | 15:42 |
| spotz_ | Rabbit! | 15:42 |
| mnaser | 99% of major cloud outages i've seen across many deployment is rabbitmq | 15:42 |
| yoctozepto | I only run rpc over rabbitmq and I kill it entirely if it starts acting weird | 15:43 |
| mnaser | and a large majority of edge cases too | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | no regrets | 15:43 |
| ricolin | yoctozepto, not just deployment, but also long term running with it;/ | 15:43 |
| bnemec | We had some folks looking to pus QDR and Kafka, but they're not around anymore. | 15:43 |
| bnemec | *push | 15:43 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: yeah, ironic has json rpc which is painless | 15:43 |
| dansmith | yoctozepto: and also doesn't queue | 15:43 |
| fungi | mnaser: is that because rabbit is terrible, or because the way openstack services utilize rpc message queuing is terrible? | 15:43 |
| mnaser | fungi: i think rabbitmq has a lot of problems with queues randomly crashing, eating messages that it never delivers to the other side | 15:44 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: I think we lack rabbitmq expertise on all sides here | 15:44 |
| yoctozepto | like, only the actual rabbitmq folks know how to handle rabbitmq | 15:44 |
| yoctozepto | or something | 15:44 |
| fungi | i echo the sentiment that it would be unfortunate to replace the backend only to find out it's the overall model which is really to blame | 15:44 |
| yoctozepto | might be the fact it's in glorious erlang (-: | 15:44 |
| gmann | ok, 15 min left... | 15:45 |
| yoctozepto | fungi: ++ | 15:45 |
| ricolin | One question for all, if we talking about replace rabbitmq, what tool will be the clear winner? | 15:45 |
| mnaser | maybe bringing some operators to the table | 15:45 |
| mnaser | and people interested in this subject | 15:45 |
| gmann | should we have a separate call to discuss rmq or other such pain points ? | 15:45 |
| ricolin | mnaser, +1 | 15:45 |
| mnaser | to sit together at the ptg or call | 15:45 |
| mnaser | yep ^ | 15:45 |
| yoctozepto | gmann ++ | 15:45 |
| gmann | mnaser: sure, a pre-PTG call and then in PTG | 15:45 |
| yoctozepto | woohoo | 15:45 |
| ricolin | Maybe we can invite some for our next meeting? | 15:45 |
| dansmith | that needs to be a ptg thing I think | 15:46 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: definitely too | 15:46 |
| gmann | ricolin: would you help in scheduling that? not just TC but for openstack-disucss audience ? | 15:46 |
| ricolin | sure | 15:46 |
| gmann | dansmith: sure | 15:46 |
| yoctozepto | I think we lost bnemec's message in the process | 15:46 |
| gmann | ricolin: thanks | 15:46 |
| ricolin | gmann, to make sure | 15:46 |
| dansmith | yeah bnemec's message is critical too, IMHO | 15:46 |
| yoctozepto | "We had some folks looking to push QDR and Kafka, but they're not around anymore." | 15:46 |
| gmann | ricolin: also can you add in PTG etherpad too ? | 15:46 |
| ricolin | you mean schedule on PTG or next meeting? | 15:46 |
| yoctozepto | and : "Fair warning: We've lost basically all of our messaging experts in Oslo over the past couple of years." | 15:46 |
| dansmith | because swapping out the devil we know for one we don't is not an improvement, IMHO | 15:46 |
| gmann | #action ricolin to schedule a call for pain point and add it in PTG etherpad too | 15:47 |
| yoctozepto | dansmith: I think the point is we actually don't know rabbitmq except for the fact it breaks | 15:47 |
| gmann | ricolin: both, one meeting before PTG and then continue in PTG ? | 15:47 |
| yoctozepto | ( btw, bnemec, what is QDR? I'm not recognising the acronym ) | 15:48 |
| ricolin | gmann, okay, will send out something | 15:48 |
| gmann | ricolin: thanks. | 15:48 |
| gmann | #topic Leaderless projects | 15:48 |
| gmann | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/yoga-leaderless | 15:48 |
| bnemec | yoctozepto: Qpid Data Router | 15:48 |
| dansmith | yoctozepto: I don't think that's true | 15:48 |
| gmann | we have left with two projects for leader assignments | 15:48 |
| jeremyfreudberg | o/ | 15:48 |
| dansmith | yoctozepto: there are lots of things I don't know the internals of, but I know the characteristics, failure patterns, and mitigation techniques | 15:48 |
| gmann | Adjutant and Sahara | 15:48 |
| mnaser | we have jeremyfreudberg here so we can start with sahara :) | 15:49 |
| gmann | jeremyfreudberg: hi | 15:49 |
| gmann | yeah | 15:49 |
| jeremyfreudberg | yeah, i can update on the ptl search. in addition to emailing the list i emailed a bunch of people directly | 15:49 |
| gmann | jeremyfreudberg: any possible candidate you think of who can lead in Yoga? | 15:49 |
| yoctozepto | ( dansmith: fair enough; though I would still argue we don't know enough as we use the hammer most of the time ) | 15:49 |
| jeremyfreudberg | I only got one response, from two engineers at Inspur. they use Sahara now and are still interested in improving it. qiujunting@inspur.com - Qiu Fossen, and ruifaling@inspur.com - ruifaling | 15:49 |
| yoctozepto | ( bnemec: thank you ) | 15:49 |
| jeremyfreudberg | i asked them about taking over as PTL or participating in DPL, but no response (yet?) | 15:50 |
| yoctozepto | thanks jeremyfreudberg for joining | 15:50 |
| jeremyfreudberg | communication from inspur is not always great | 15:50 |
| jeremyfreudberg | anyway, i'm fine to discuss all options for sahara. | 15:50 |
| gmann | jeremyfreudberg: thanks for reaching out to them for options. | 15:50 |
| yoctozepto | ++ | 15:50 |
| gmann | even if we retire it now then it can be added back anytime if anyone want to maintain it | 15:51 |
| gmann | or we can call out for leader on openstack-discuss ML first ? | 15:51 |
| yoctozepto | yeah but we need to discuss those quality merits we want to have in openstack; I argue we can't have extremely struggling projects under our banner | 15:52 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: agree on that. | 15:52 |
| yoctozepto | gmann: I think sahara is being handled for now; let's wait | 15:52 |
| jungleboyj | yoctozepto: ++ | 15:52 |
| gmann | so what next step. wait for inspur and then retire> | 15:53 |
| yoctozepto | I updated sahara in etherpad | 15:53 |
| gmann | thanks | 15:53 |
| gmann | so Adjutant | 15:53 |
| yoctozepto | wait for inspur and retire if no response ++ | 15:53 |
| yoctozepto | yes | 15:53 |
| gmann | +1 | 15:53 |
| jeremyfreudberg | my thought is wait a while longer for inspur, if that's okay with TC. i will discuss with tosky also about retiring some plugins which are a lost cause | 15:54 |
| jungleboyj | jeremyfreudberg: ++ | 15:54 |
| yoctozepto | jeremyfreudberg: thanks, makes sense to me but what should we declare sahara's status? | 15:54 |
| gmann | jeremyfreudberg: sure, let's wait for soem time | 15:54 |
| spotz_ | + | 15:54 |
| yoctozepto | transitional PTL jeremyfreudberg? | 15:54 |
| gmann | I will say wait for 1 week till we have PTL election close (Cyborg election) | 15:55 |
| yoctozepto | gmann: I think jeremyfreudberg suggested to wait LONGER than that | 15:55 |
| yoctozepto | but if that's the case, then I'm ok and no questions asked | 15:55 |
| gmann | we can if jeremyfreudberg is fine leading it until then ? and once jeremyfreudberg give go ahead then we can proceed ? | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | as I said, both options work for me | 15:56 |
| jeremyfreudberg | i really don't want to put my name for another cycle, even if it's temporary | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | ok, so we wait only till end of elections | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | enough time | 15:56 |
| gmann | yeah. | 15:56 |
| jungleboyj | Makes sense to me. | 15:56 |
| ricolin | +1 | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | if they need more, then imagine the project's struggle | 15:56 |
| yoctozepto | now Adjutant | 15:56 |
| jeremyfreudberg | tosky and i will follow up later to be sure | 15:57 |
| gmann | so Adjutant ? did any once reachout to previous PTL ? | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | who wants to press the red button? | 15:57 |
| gmann | jeremyfreudberg: thanks a lot for helping in transition | 15:57 |
| jungleboyj | ++ | 15:57 |
| tosky | if some time more is required, of course I can fill the PTL role for either the rebirth or the shutdown phase | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | ooh, I thought ianychoi[m] was reaching out to previous ptls? | 15:57 |
| tosky | but let's see | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | ok, so for sahara we have tosky as transitional PTL | 15:57 |
| gmann | tosky: ack, thanks | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | writing it down | 15:57 |
| yoctozepto | done | 15:58 |
| spotz_ | Yeah even I’m a bit lost on any next steps if any I need to do for the election or if everything is in process | 15:58 |
| gmann | ok two min left moving to open review and then we can discuss on Adjutant | 15:58 |
| gmann | #topic Open Reviews | 15:59 |
| gmann | spotz: let's sync up after meeting | 15:59 |
| gmann | for this https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/805105 | 15:59 |
| spotz_ | Sounds good | 15:59 |
| gmann | mnaser: can you review the depends-on #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/805103/ | 15:59 |
| mnaser | done :) | 16:00 |
| gmann | other open review is Venus project application which is under review #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/804824 | 16:00 |
| gmann | mnaser: thanks | 16:00 |
| gmann | let's close the meeting and continue discussion on election/leaderless projects | 16:01 |
| gmann | thanks all for joining | 16:01 |
| gmann | #endmeeting | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Thu Aug 26 16:01:14 2021 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-08-26-15.00.html | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-08-26-15.00.txt | 16:01 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2021/tc.2021-08-26-15.00.log.html | 16:01 |
| ricolin | thanks gmann | 16:01 |
| jungleboyj | Thanks! | 16:01 |
| spotz | Thanks gmann and everyone | 16:02 |
| *** rpittau is now known as rpittau|afk | 16:02 | |
| gmann | spotz: as TC election are closed, can you add result in governance like https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/779846 | 16:02 |
| gmann | for PTL we need to wait until they are closed | 16:02 |
| spotz | gmann: yeah I can do that, I thought the other patch took care of that | 16:03 |
| gmann | and that will reset the chair and vice-chair to empty and then we start process to select them for Yoga as fresh | 16:04 |
| spotz | Ok I'll get to that in a few, need to make another pull oof the repo | 16:04 |
| spotz | As far as Cyborg not sure if Ian reached out to them or not yet. It's basically been just us and we were in sync until Tuesday night when the nominations ended:) | 16:05 |
| mnaser | i don tthink we got a chance to discuss adjustant eh | 16:05 |
| yoctozepto | thanks gmann | 16:05 |
| spotz | Was that tosky volunteering or for Sahara? | 16:06 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: you want to continue on Adjutant or we can do in next meeting too as election are still not closed | 16:06 |
| yoctozepto | mnaser: I must go but the bottom line was to check if someone reached out to Adrian Turjak, the previous ptl | 16:06 |
| gmann | spotz: transitional until anyone show up. | 16:06 |
| yoctozepto | gmann: I must go for now | 16:06 |
| yoctozepto | gmann: but I think we know what to find out | 16:06 |
| yoctozepto | I thought ianychoi[m] did reach out | 16:07 |
| yoctozepto | but not sure | 16:07 |
| yoctozepto | spotz: yeah, it's in the etherpad | 16:07 |
| gmann | yoctozepto: sure. | 16:07 |
| * yoctozepto off | 16:07 | |
| gmann | mnaser: yeah, let's discuss it in next meeting by then we will get to know if anyone interested or not | 16:07 |
| mnaser | sgtm | 16:08 |
| fungi | usually the election officials would propose the update to the governance files a week from next tuesday once all polls have concluded, so as not to end up proposing multiple election-related changes to governance | 16:10 |
| fungi | the "new" tc isn't seated until polls are complete, it just happens this time that there's no change in tc members | 16:11 |
| fungi | (only in expirations, and a trigger to elect a new chair) | 16:11 |
| jungleboyj | All sounds good to me. | 16:14 |
| fungi | if there had been a fifth tc candidate, we'd have campaigning going on this week, followed by a poll next week, and then the tc would be seated after that | 16:15 |
| fungi | so it would make sense to still stick to that schedule for officially seating the new-tc-same-as-the-old-tc | 16:16 |
| *** akekane_ is now known as abhishekk | 16:18 | |
| opendevreview | Amy Marrich proposed openstack/governance master: Close out Yoga TC Election https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/806270 | 20:17 |
| fungi | spotz: not sure if you saw the discussion above, but in the past i've just done that ^ as part of the ptls update if running a combined election. the "new" tc technically isn't due to be seated for a couple weeks still | 20:20 |
| fungi | we just happen to know who will be on the tc two weeks ahead of schedule | 20:21 |
| spotz | fungi: I kinda saw it but wasn't sure. I'm ok with abandoning it or -w it for the next week orr so | 20:21 |
| spotz | let me do that | 20:21 |
| fungi | you can always squash in the ptls and keep it wip until cyborg is decided | 20:21 |
| spotz | yeah | 20:22 |
| gmann | but as TC election are closed, we can do both PTL and TC separately | 20:25 |
| gmann | we should not need to wait for PTL election to close for TC results update | 20:25 |
| spotz | Well the patch is there if we want to separate and if we don't it's -w:) | 20:26 |
| gmann | I am ok with either, it does not matter. election officials call. | 20:27 |
| fungi | turning that statement around, the new tc isn't scheduled to be seated for two weeks, so we can do both ptl and tc updates together. we should not need to push a seprate change for tc results when we can push it with the ptl results | 20:27 |
| fungi | what's the rush? | 20:28 |
| fungi | please make as little work for the election officials as possible | 20:28 |
| fungi | being in a hurry to make the tc list update especially makes very little sense given the list of names in it will be exactly the same (it will just update a few dates and clear out the chair entry) | 20:30 |
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