Tuesday, 2023-12-12

*** tosky_ is now known as tosky00:25
opendevreviewJames Page proposed openstack/governance master: Retire all single charm repositories  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90349011:23
opendevreviewDr. Jens Harbott proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Fix release links for numeric series  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/90349812:43
opendevreviewDr. Jens Harbott proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Fix release links for numeric series  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/90349812:57
fungiSvenKieske: ^13:26
fricklerI wanted to check the build results before pinging, but this does lgtm now. tc-members: ^^13:32
fungiyep13:34
SvenKieskety14:03
opendevreviewDr. Jens Harbott proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Enable kolla and openstack-ansible for 2023.2  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/90351215:04
fricklernoonedeadpunk: fyi ^^ took the liberty to also include osa in this15:04
noonedeadpunkfrickler: thanks a ton!15:06
noonedeadpunkour releases patch just got merged today so I didn't have a chance to update it yet15:07
noonedeadpunkBtw. I beleive that TripleO is still not dropped, is it?15:07
noonedeadpunkhttps://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/88505215:07
noonedeadpunkProbably it needs more work now though15:08
noonedeadpunkah, there was another one15:09
opendevreviewDmitriy Rabotyagov proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Drop hardcoded TripleO links  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/88505215:09
funginoonedeadpunk: i thought the tc got word from tripleo delegates that proceeding with retirement and/or dispersing of remaining deliverables was okay to comply with the new "unmaintained" branch policies15:20
fricklerfungi: I haven't heard about that, but it sure would be good to clean some things up15:23
fungii'll see if i can find a reference, but it was in response to tc concerns that tripleo's plan to take care of unmaintained/wallaby without any volunteers for newer branches would run counter to the approved process15:28
fungiit sounded like they were okay with the idea of continuing to just care for the old stable/wallaby branch downstream inside red hat rather than within openstack15:29
frickleroh, there was something some months ago, yes. iirc they said eoling things by end of october should turn out to be fine, but I haven't seen any confirmation of that after that date nor any action being taken15:31
opendevreviewMerged openstack/openstack-manuals master: Drop hardcoded TripleO links  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/88505215:38
noonedeadpunkfungi: frankly speaking - I was not following very closely tripleo discussions lately as have quite some internal battles to fight right now :(15:43
fungiunderstandable15:48
opendevreviewDr. Jens Harbott proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Enable kolla and openstack-ansible for 2023.2  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/90351215:56
fricklerERROR    has_deployment_guide set for openstack-ansible but https://docs.openstack.org/project-deploy-guide/openstack-ansible/2023.2/index.html does not exist (404)16:26
fricklernoonedeadpunk: I think that may still need a patch merged after the release in order to trigger publishing? do you have one in the pipeline or shall we set it to false for now?16:28
fungiyeah, looks like nothing's been published for it yet based on what i see at https://static.openstack.org/docs/project-deploy-guide/openstack-ansible/16:30
fungihttps://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/builds?job_name=promote-openstack-tox-docs&project=openstack/openstack-ansible says it ran in the last minute16:32
funginext afs vos release should happen in a couple of minutes16:33
fungioh, maybe the deploy guide uses a different job16:36
frickleryes, https://docs.openstack.org/openstack-ansible/2023.2/ is fine16:36
fungiagreed, the file list in https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/build/3f31d10d2ad4457da6951347b0a59f49/console#1/0/28/localhost doesn't cover it16:37
fricklerwe need https://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/builds?job_name=build-openstack-deploy-guide&project=openstack/openstack-ansible16:38
fungihttps://zuul.opendev.org/t/openstack/builds?job_name=promote-deploy-guide&project=openstack%2Fopenstack-ansible&pipeline=promote&skip=0&limit=5016:40
fungiyeah, looks like it will only happen when there are changes to the deploy guide content16:40
fungihttps://opendev.org/openstack/openstack-ansible/src/branch/master/zuul.d/project-templates.yaml#L295-L31716:41
jrosseri'm not sure what we are supposed to do other than make some kind of noop patch to the 2023.2 deploy guide16:46
fungior amend the file filter to include something that naturally gets patched immediately after branch creation (.gitreview?)16:47
jrossergood idea, for this release thats already merged though https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-ansible/+/90349616:48
fungiyeah, so some other sort of no-op change this time around16:48
jrosserok those changes are proposed, lets see what happens17:01
JayFtc-members: meeting in 56 minutes 17:04
* frickler wonders how people act upon this long warning, for me it is just a distraction. something between 5-15 mins could be useful instead IMO17:37
JayFfrickler: it's not something I ever found useful, but some TC members asked me to continue it as chair. I use meeting reminders and calendars extensively personally to not miss stuff :D 17:38
fricklerso you have a calendar entry to send this reminder? isn't there a bot can do this? ;)17:40
JayFfrickler: many people would be concerned to see the number of 2-5 minute "reminder/time cutout to do X" meetings on my calendar ;) 17:42
JayFI am extremely unreliable by nature, and make up for it with meticulous planning, documentation, and remindering.17:43
JayFPart of why I'm such a stickler for documentation. If I forget to write something down; I might literally just forget it altogether17:43
JayF#startmeeting tc18:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Tue Dec 12 18:00:07 2023 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is JayF. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'18:00
knikollao/18:00
JayFWelcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct.18:00
JayFToday's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee.18:00
JayF#topic Roll Call18:00
gmanno/18:00
JayFo/18:00
frickler\o18:00
spotz[m]o/18:00
rosmaitao/18:00
JayF#info dansmith the only noted absense in the agenda18:00
jamespageo/18:00
spotz[m]I'll be out after this week I'll update the agenda18:00
jamespageditto18:01
JayFThanks spotz[m] and jamespage! Enjoy the holiday!18:01
JayFWe have quorum, will give a couple more minutes for late arrivals.18:02
slaweqo/18:03
slaweqsorry for being late18:03
JayFNo problem :) everyone gets overlapping meetings/TZ issues/etc18:03
JayF#topic Follow up on tracked action items18:03
JayFAll of these are about the OIF Bylaws change.18:03
JayF#info There is no strict deadline for approval of OIF bylaws related governance changes.18:04
JayFThat takes care of mine.18:04
gmannyeah, I pushed the changes for TC tracker #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90323618:04
JayFgmann you signed up to create teh two changes, I believe you did18:04
gmannand this is resolution to vote on the bylaw changes #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90323918:04
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90323618:04
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90323918:04
JayFThank you for that, I'll dedicate time to review them immediately after the meeting and I suggest all tc-members do the same.18:05
JayFAny questions about the TC charter/OIF bylaws change since we don't have a dedicated agenda item?18:05
gmannI would request all tc-members to check those, as JayF mentioned there is no hard deadline but we should finish this work as soon as we can so that foundation will finish the bylaw change process18:05
gmannyeah, we can discuss here if any question18:05
gmann*here also18:06
JayFPlease add to the pre-holiday list at a minimum :D 18:06
JayF#topic Gate Health Check18:06
gmann++18:06
JayFHow is the gate looking?18:06
knikollathanks gmann, will review today :)18:06
gmannthanks 18:06
JayFIronic had a couple days breakage this week, landing a big chain of patches to the ironic<>nova driver, and the middle state is apparently broken. We've temporarily disabled the broken job and have had the fix in the nova gate since yesterday morning.18:06
slaweqI think gate looks pretty good, at least from what I can say18:07
gmannon gate side, there have been some failure on nova side and melwitt continuously proposing some ideas/fixes which are helpful .  18:07
gmannother than that I have not observed any frequent failure in general tempest jobs18:07
JayFThanks for the efforts folks are putting forward to keep the gate running. Moving on.18:07
JayF#topic Leaderless projects18:08
JayF#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2024.1-leaderless18:08
gmannone update here: there is PTL proposal for ec2api also #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90316318:08
gmanni think we have 3 open proposal now, please review those18:08
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/903163 New proposal for ec2api ptl18:08
fungithe foundation staff have been informed that the opensearch donation from amazon is being restructured to a monthly allocation instead of yearly. some costs have spiked over the past two months and we're in danger of getting charged an overage18:09
fungii've started talking to dpawlik to see if we can figure out what's triggered that and how we can scale it back18:09
JayFI'll note that melwitt's work on Nova's gate, recently mentioned, is using opensearch extensively18:09
JayFand has been evangelized around the list/nova devs/etc18:09
JayFand may be the entire explanation...18:09
fungisorry, meant to type that before the topic changed18:10
JayFNot a problem :) 18:10
gmannyeah opensearch was replacement of ELK thing which are needed for our day to day activities 18:10
fungian alternative might be to seek a donor to help cover the additional cost (amazon is only willing to chip in us$50k/yr)18:11
gmannI think fungi has good point of being in danger and we should discuss it on priority 18:12
JayFfungi: would it be possible to have you raise this concern to the openstack-discuss mailing list?18:12
gmannit was 45K last year rufht?18:12
gmannright18:12
fungiJayF: i definitely can18:12
gmannmore than openstack-discuss I think this is board or foundation staff level discussion we should have18:12
fungii'm getting most of this info second-hand and am sort of playing middle-man between parties18:12
JayFgmann: awareness at every level provides value imo :) 18:13
gmannno harm in asking other volunteer in openstack-discuss though but that should not be enough i think18:13
gmannJayF: sure18:13
gmannI can re-start the thread between board and TC we had last time on this so that we know the background and can restart the discussion18:14
JayFThanks for that.18:14
gmannI mean board informal strategic discussion we had last time on this18:14
gmannI can include the interested tc-members in that ML, ping me. will include JayF for sure18:15
* frickler wonders what interest aws has in sponsoring this. they don't seem interested in openstack otherwise, are they?18:15
spotz[m]me please18:15
gmannack18:15
* frickler too18:15
rosmaitafrickler: you can use s3 as a backend for cinder/glance18:16
gmannfrickler: Allison Randal helped to get this sponsoring so she might have more background/aws relational 18:16
gmannbut as it was yearly help, we kind of expected this could have next year or later.18:17
fricklerso people actually use AWS S3 instead of radosgw? (but I agree that this is getting offtopic now)18:18
JayFYeah, I'm going to move on to the next topic :)18:19
JayF#topic Implementation of Unmaintained Branch Statuses18:19
JayFIt looks like this is starting to make some motion, which is exciting! Is there any specific update for this week, rosmaita?18:19
rosmaitanothing from me, i will take an action item to check in with the release team on Friday and report back next week18:20
rosmaita(we left it that they will ping the TC if they need help)18:20
JayFDo you want that in the minutes or just, you'll have an update at this topic next week?18:20
* JayF assumes you'll just update us on the topic next week and avoids double-booking the topic18:20
JayF#topic 2024.1 TC Tracker18:21
rosmaitaok18:21
JayF#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2024.1-tracker18:21
JayFAny updates on TC tracker-tracked items?18:21
JayFMoving on to next topic.18:22
JayF#topic Open Discussion and Reviews18:22
JayF#link  https://review.opendev.org/q/status:open+repo:openstack/governance18:22
JayFPlease have a look at open governance reviews; I'll make a pass this afternoon as usual to merge eligible changes.18:23
JayFAny topics for open discussion this week?18:23
fricklerI was hoping we'd also handle inactive projects under the leaderless topic, but so I'll mention these here for visibility18:23
JayF++ please do, lets link those changes into the agenda18:23
gmann++18:23
gmannI will review those today18:23
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90262318:23
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90262418:24
fricklerthose patches are stacked on top of each other because otherwise they'd conflict, let me know if I should change the ordering18:24
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90262518:24
JayF#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90262618:24
JayFIs there anything further to discuss on that or other topics for open discussion?18:25
fungisorry, juggling multiple meetings in this timeslot, but the indication from amazon was that their interest in donating opensearch resources was to raise the profile of opensearch recognizing it as a legitimate open source project and also of their managed opensearch service offering18:25
fricklerso marketing, ok ;)18:26
fricklerrepeating my comment from last week: testing fungi's affiliation patch 876738 I see that 4 members do no specify an affiliation in their profile, maybe everyone can check and fix that?18:26
fungi(remember that amazon forked opensearch when elastic changed the license on elasticsearch, so have been trying to get out from under that shadow)18:26
gmann++18:26
JayFfrickler: can we be specific about where that affiliation is set?18:26
JayFfrickler: wondering if we need to #action the tc-members who need to set affiliations to do a change to do so18:27
fricklerJayF: in your profile on the oif page18:27
gmann#link https://openinfra.dev/a/profile18:27
gmannI think openstack.org is synced up automatically or it is otherway around ?18:27
gmannor we need to update both18:27
frickleriiuc oif is the source of truth nowadays18:28
jamespagefixing mine now18:28
gmannmost of time (not recently) updated openstack.org and it got synced up in openinfra.dev also but doing directly on openinfra is good18:28
JayFAck; thanks for that callout frickler. We should resolve that issue before we, say, pass resolutions that change our charter to depend on that information :D 18:29
fricklerthere's also the question whether e.g. "Red Hat Inc." is different from "Red Hat" or "Red Hat $country" and how to handle that18:29
knikollaugh, i thought i had one. will update mine. 18:29
frickleror "Canonical $somewhere" for that matter18:29
gmannI think 'Affiliation'  definition in bylaws consider them all single org right? but its tooling we need to take care of that18:30
fricklerfinally there's also the question whether we should also ask PTLs and other leader positions to provide this information18:30
gmannnot sure if IBM and Red Hat is considered same?18:30
* slaweq just fixed own profile18:30
slaweqgmann: I don't think it should18:31
knikollai fixed mine too. 18:31
JayFI think it's valuable to have the information; but unless we have specific requirements in bylaws for affiliation diversity around PTLs, I don't think we should require them.18:31
spotz[m]Red Hat and IBM not the same18:31
JayFBut that being said -- the info is useful for non-leaders too. It's useful generally.18:31
spotz[m]Red Hat, Red Hat Inc. are the same, we have to clean them up in the speakers list every Summit:)18:31
gmannyeah, info is good. agree with frickler to ask PTL also but just a nice to have info in profile18:32
gmannand mandatory for election things18:32
fungii was doing affiliation analysis recently and found contributors spelling "red hat" 28 (no joke) different ways18:33
fricklerPTLs are also elected, so we could decide to make this mandatory information to provide? but asking nicely is fine for me for now18:33
knikollafungi: that's impressive 18:33
gmann:)18:34
knikollamy partner has two first names and two last names and it's fun to see all the different ways software systems fail to cope with that. 18:34
spotz[m]And don't forget RedHat18:34
slaweqLOL18:35
fungitechnically we do at least need accurate affiliation data for tc candidates in order to avoid violating the current charter limits on affiliation18:35
JayF++18:35
gmannyeah18:35
spotz[m]I agree though I think we're good at noting Red Hat and Red Hat Inc are the same on a manual level:)18:35
gmannshould we have that info in this page too? #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/18:36
spotz[m]It's when we try to do things programmatically it takes more effort18:36
gmannthis table #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/#current-members18:36
JayFIt'd be nice from a documentation standpoint; but not at the cost of having that affiliation have two sources of truth18:36
spotz[m]Maybe as most of us seem to use personal emails for Open Source work18:36
JayFif we could pull it from opendev profile into that page; awesome; if not, I'd worry about drift18:37
spotz[m]I guess we can't just pull it in?18:37
fricklersome variant of fungi's script could do that18:37
fricklermaybe not live, but via some check job?18:37
fungithat script is still mostly a poc but happy to make improvements and polish it18:37
gmanni think check during election time or any change in TC members is enough18:38
JayF++18:38
fricklerok I have another thing I mentioned earlier, but failed to link to the actual page :-/ https://docs.openstack.org/install-guide/openstack-services.html18:38
JayFWe trust CI for more important things than this, such as if the software we govern actually does anything :D 18:38
spotz[m]I would say the stackalytics file but you don't need to add yourself there unless you change companies for some reason18:38
gmann+118:38
fricklerthis mentions yoga and earlier, no wonder ppl keep installing old releases18:38
JayFspotz[m]: that file is not updated anymore, stackalytics is not maintained, patches to that file have been open months and months18:39
JayFspotz[m]: we really need to not direct people there/treat the website as gone :( 18:39
gmannfrickler: nice catch18:39
spotz[m]If I get time over the holidays I'll work on the install guides, no promises18:40
fricklerso do we want to drop EOL releases there? and how can we keep this up to date?18:40
fungiopenstack.biterg.io is trying to pull affiliation data from openinfraid (foundation) profiles, but we have very spotty coverage owing to people not having much incentive to keep their affiliations/date ranges accurate there18:40
JayFDoes someone want to take an action to dig into this? There is no docs team. 18:40
gmanngood point, and with unmaintained status, do we want to keep those also there?18:40
JayFI don't think the TC meeting is the best place to go point by point, but we can get a few interested folks together who want to fix things up18:41
gmannor maybe have those all there even people install EOL release also18:41
gmannat least they find doc somewhere18:41
gmanngood to add this i tracker and ask for volunteer 18:41
gmann*in18:41
gmannthere are many doc issues still18:42
frickler+118:42
spotz[m]Ok I think I can up date the links on that page, it gets a little wonky where we go from name to numbers....18:43
JayFspotz[m]: can I put you down for an action to follow up post-holidays, even if it's not done, just like, status update/let folks know where it lies?18:43
spotz[m]I'll take the action item to update that page as much as possible18:43
JayF#action spotz[m] to look into updating https://docs.openstack.org/install-guide/openstack-services.html and report back to TC post-holidays18:44
JayFAny other topics for Open Discussion? 18:44
gmannremember we still have releasenotes link error for release name vs number. added in tracker too18:44
gmannand frickler has pushed some changes for that. 18:44
gmannmentioning here as that is also known broken doc link18:44
spotz[m]Someone just remind me how far back we need to keep there:)18:44
JayFhttps://releases.openstack.org is the canonical source18:45
JayFwhich says back to stein right now, until a month goes by, when hopefully it'll say "Victoria -> unmaintained"18:45
JayFas the last one :)18:45
spotz[m]Stein thanks:)18:45
fricklerspotz[m]: train and ussuri are just up for being EOLed globally18:45
JayFjust noting that it'll be victoria perhaps by the time you get done :D 18:45
gmannspotz[m]: maybe we can add all EOL under new section 'EOL releases' insead of removing them18:46
fricklerhmm, I thought stein was eol already, will check with release team18:46
gmannor just keep them all and adda notes to check the release page about each release lifecycle 18:46
spotz[m]The Minimal deployment sections would over run the page but we could divide the install guide part18:47
rosmaitabtw, i just noticed that i missed an item for the Unmaintained branch implementation status18:47
rosmaitahttps://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/UJ7Y76LRWTZQSSDAGMPWCCVVGGIX3TOG/18:47
rosmaitaussuri and train EOL18:48
rosmaita(to clear them out before moving v through y to umaintained/18:48
JayFThanks!18:49
knikollai have to drop off early today. If I don't see you next week in the TC meeting, happy holidays! o/ 18:49
JayF\o18:49
JayFAnything else for Open Discussion, or can we all join knikolla in dropping the meeting? :D18:49
slaweqhappy holidays knikolla 18:50
jamespageme too - need to ship a child somewhere for 10 minutes time - have a nice break folks!18:50
spotz[m]Happy Holidays Kristi18:50
JayFthat sounds like consensus :) 18:50
JayFhave a good holiday o/18:50
JayF#endmeeting tc18:50
opendevmeetMeeting ended Tue Dec 12 18:50:24 2023 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)18:50
opendevmeetMinutes:        https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-12-12-18.00.html18:50
opendevmeetMinutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-12-12-18.00.txt18:50
opendevmeetLog:            https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2023/tc.2023-12-12-18.00.log.html18:50
spotz[m]I'm good, I'll get some kind of draft together for tht page18:50
slaweqo/18:50
knikolla\o/ caused a mass walkout, yay18:50
gmannjamespage:  me too :)18:50
gmannhappy holidays!18:50
JayFknikolla: I've been waiting for someone to do it for 15 minutes ;) 18:50
knikollayou're welcome :) 18:51
spotz[m]hehe18:51
JayFagenda is cleared for those who needed to add absenses :)18:52
TheJuliaknikolla: Well done! :)18:54
spotz[m]Ok I'm ripping out anything older then Stein that I come across on pages inside the install guide18:57
spotz[m]Oddly enough on the environment page there was nothing between Stein and Yoga, I'm just adding in since Yoga18:59
*** JayF_IRCCTest is now known as JayF19:04
fricklerfyi regarding stein eol, it was proposed 3 months ago, but isn't completely finished yet https://review.opendev.org/q/topic:stein-eol+status:open20:40
fricklerbut even in the current state it should make sense to remove it from the install guide already20:41

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