Tuesday, 2024-04-30

opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Add timeline to remove enforce_scope in RBAC goal  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/91517902:51
opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Move distributed-project-leadership model into doc  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/91682202:55
opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Add DPL model & liaison reset policy  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/91683303:24
gmanntc-members ^^ after feedback ion gerrit, I am going with the approach of TC liaison for DPL model which will address the concern of TC inactivity. 03:25
gmanntc-members ^^ also, I updated a few of my changes (a few for nits), please re-review/vote them 03:26
opendevreviewGhanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Add TC liaison in DPL model implementation  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/91751603:43
gmanntc-members ^^ also adding tc-liaison in DPL implementation. I volunteer to serve a liaison for existing DPL projects. if any other TC member would like to help, please comment in gerrit.03:47
opendevreviewhongbin proposed openstack/governance master: Move openstack/kuryr and openstack/kuryr-libnetwork to Zun  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/91751703:56
opendevreviewdo3meli proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: update get image guide for latest ubuntu release  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/91753606:55
*** zbitter is now known as zaneb08:09
fricklertc-members: please have a look at https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-zuul-jobs/+/917504 regarding the interaction between the PTI and the Charm project09:36
opendevreviewMerged openstack/openstack-manuals master: update get image guide for latest ubuntu release  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/91753609:38
jamespagefrickler: hmm that's odd - let me check on the motivations for that - 3.12 is the default Python in 24.04 so I would expect those issues to be worked on, rather than ignored09:39
jamespagethe charm python targets are an intersection between the OpenStack supported Pythons and those provided in supported Ubuntu releases09:39
jamespageI would expect 3.12 and 3.10 in the list for 2024.1 and master branches - I'llcheck with Jadon09:41
fricklerjamespage: please excuse my ignorance, but are Charms only targeting Ubuntu? if so, then dropping py3.11 testing would actually be fine, since there is no Ubuntu release with that python version. it still might need some amending of the PTI rules09:44
jamespagefrickler: well there is one with 3.11 (mantic) but that only has a month or so of life left now09:45
jamespagebut yes they do only target Ubuntu09:45
opendevreviewJames Page proposed openstack/governance master: Retire all single charm repositories  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90349009:53
opendevreviewJames Page proposed openstack/governance master: Retire all single charm repositories  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90349010:35
jamespagethat review includes a change to deal with the use of a main named branch in retiring repositories but the ones being retired need another round of retirement10:39
opendevreviewTakashi Kajinami proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Remove reference to ZeroMQ  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/91768312:26
opendevreviewTakashi Kajinami proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Remove reference to retired projects  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/91768412:31
opendevreviewJames Page proposed openstack/governance master: Retire all single charm repositories  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/90349013:36
gmannfrickler: jamespage: irrespective of  they test python 3.12 or what distro they target,  python 3.11 should be voting there on master as well as on stable/2024.116:47
gmann-1 on that change, even that was removing testing from already released stable/2024.1 also16:47
gouthamrtc-members: the weekly IRC meeting begins here in ~13 mins 17:47
gouthamr#startmeeting tc18:00
opendevmeetMeeting started Tue Apr 30 18:00:51 2024 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes.  The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.18:00
opendevmeetUseful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote.18:00
opendevmeetThe meeting name has been set to 'tc'18:00
spotz[m] o/18:01
gouthamr#topic Rollcall18:01
gmanno/18:01
JayFo/18:01
dansmitho/18:01
slaweqo/18:01
frickler\o18:01
noonedeadpunko/18:01
gtemao/18:01
* gouthamr wow that's a full house :) 18:02
fricklerwow, full house ;)18:02
gouthamrhey there everyone; Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct.18:02
gouthamr#chair frickler 18:02
opendevmeetCurrent chairs: frickler gouthamr18:02
gouthamr^ i will do this with each meeting; in case i get disconnected :) 18:02
fricklerack18:02
gouthamrToday's meeting agenda can be found at18:03
gouthamr#link https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee (TC meeting agenda for 30th Apr 2024)18:03
gouthamrlets get started 18:04
gouthamra procedural topic18:04
gouthamr#topic Monthly video meeting updates18:04
gouthamri was chatting with JayF about this; and i thought lets get a wider consensus on the platform we use for our monthly video meetings 18:05
gouthamri'd like to thank the Open Infra Foundation for letting us use a pro Zoom account so we can keep longer meetings and do other fancy things18:05
gouthamrbut i know a lot of you were never happy with doing this; and i think the problem was with the feature gap we had in the past with Jitsi18:06
dansmitha lot?18:06
gouthamrbut, having successfully used meetpad.opendev.org in the last PTG, i think its time to consider it again for our monthly meeting18:06
gmannalso, has anyone tested the recording? because we need recording for TC meeting to be published on public youtube channel18:07
gouthamrdansmith: /me made an assumption based on how the community feels about non-opensource tools 18:07
JayF==gmann that's my only concern; that we're able to get a high quality recording18:07
noonedeadpunkI think we did last time we evaluated meetpad18:07
noonedeadpunkand it was far from being usable18:07
gmannyeah, we should test that before trying in meeting directly 18:07
spotz[m]Does meetpad now record?18:07
noonedeadpunkIt did, but smth was completely off there18:08
dansmithdesktop integration is a big one for me, i.e. mute and other button sync, which meetpad doesn't do properly (or at all)18:08
JayFspotz[m]: recording on meetpad is done locally aiui18:08
dansmithyeah, still no recording support, you have to do it locally, AFAIK18:08
gouthamrgmann JayF: ++ i agree on recording; and we (in the manila team) have tested meetpad well enough this past PTG and have recorded things and things have gone swimmingly well18:08
JayFyou're the person who is going to be responsible for recording it, so if you're onboard I am18:09
dansmithgouthamr: I thought cinder and glance used something else for ptg specifically for that reason?18:09
JayFbut I'll note I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other -- in terms of issues before the TC, what platform we use for video meeting is not a large priority imo18:09
* frickler just takes the opportunity to note again that I'm not happy with video meetings at all and would support a motion to stop them completely. and while I am +1 with the change to meetpad, I likely won't join those either18:09
gouthamrah i didn't know; but https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bhg4aT1B_vE&list=PLnpzT0InFrqCHg9lfMcPe136BU-27jt-x is a testament18:09
gouthamrdansmith ^18:10
dansmithack, just saying18:10
dansmithif frickler isn't going to join the video meetings anyway, is there anyone else feeling strongly about moving away from zoom?18:10
JayFfrickler: I too would prefer no video meetings whatsoever out of the three options of "jitsi", "zoom", or "no video" :) 18:10
gmannI am ok with zoom as it has been very smooth18:11
JayFfrickler: I appreciate the built-in logging of text-based collaboration18:11
slaweqzoom is fine for me18:11
clarkbthe recording support is built into meetpad but it records a file to your local machine18:11
clarkbjust to clarify that it is supported but it doesn't auto upload to say youtube18:11
clarkb(or anywhere else)18:11
dansmithclarkb: or handle the recorder dropping from the call, presumably'18:11
clarkbyes that is the case I think18:12
clarkbthe client has to be connected to record18:12
gouthamrdansmith: if there's a disconnection, the recording still gets downloaded.. but yes, it gets fragmented18:12
dansmithanyway, +1 for staying with zoom from me18:12
slaweqcan it be recorded by more than one person in the same time maybe?18:12
clarkbyes18:13
gouthamrslaweq: yes18:13
slaweqso that could be eventually workaround if we would have e.g 2 people recording it just in case one would be disconnected18:13
slaweqjust saying18:13
spotz[m]I like the idea of moving to meetpad18:14
slaweqit is not perfect of course but can be more likely to be fine then18:14
gouthamrmy proposal is that we try it; if it becomes too painful, lets go back 18:14
noonedeadpunkso basically that boils down to you and frickler 18:15
gouthamrbut, if you're against trying it, i'd like to know :) no need to stir the pot.. 18:15
dansmithI've tried it plenty and prefer zoom, FWIW18:15
noonedeadpunkas in case of your absence there should be someone who can do recording as well18:15
gouthamrnoonedeadpunk: +118:15
dansmithI'm not sure what trying we need to do, unless you mean "see how often we fail to get a usable recording" or something :)18:15
gouthamr^ that 18:16
dansmithseriously? :)18:16
JayFI will comment that: 1) our TC videos on yt get minimal views and 2) I got zero complaints the one time I failed to start recording directly18:16
slaweqsounds good for me, we are using meetpad in e.g. neutron for the ci meetins every other week and it works fine for us18:16
JayFso I don't think it's a large risk to try something18:16
gmannI am very concern on 'no/fail recording' which can be a issue with TC video call being public18:16
dansmithI totally don't get the mix of "we must have text-based archives of everything" and also "meh, if we fail to record no big deal"18:17
JayFdansmith: IME the utility of recordings is minimal compared to the utility of searchable text-based archives/notes18:18
gmannJayF: I have seen many people in past complaining about TC meeting transparency of video call. if it was not recorded by mistake it is fine but if do it bcz of tool we use then  its issue18:18
noonedeadpunkyeah, despite limited interest, I believe that all recording must be safe18:18
noonedeadpunkotherwise we should pretty much neglect all non-recorded part...18:18
noonedeadpunkand yes, I also have heard some complaints about non-transparency of video calls - potentially in the same discussion as gmann did :D18:19
fungifwiw, most complaints about lack of transparency of meetings was about in-person meetings, vs irc where there's a skimmable log of the discussion (skimming a video recording is nontrivial)18:19
funginot about lack of recordings18:20
JayFfungi: ++ that's basically what I meant re: video recordings having minimal utility18:20
noonedeadpunkwell, frankly, with todays LLMS getting audio to text (with like whisper) makes things way more trivial...18:20
dansmithyeah, not everyone watches every meeting, but people do need to fill-in in case they miss one, so one data point about a missing recording is not really very representative, IMHO18:20
gmannsame with logs. not everyone ready all logs and they can complain thesame18:20
gmannthe same18:20
dansmithwell, it's easy to not complain if you usually don't need them, but when you do and they're not there, it's a problem18:21
gmannyeah18:21
gouthamr+1 ; so while the youtube video recording viewership may be low.. there's an archive to go back to for _something_ in case we need to 18:21
dansmithanyway, this seems like a solution in search of a problem, because nobody that is currently not attending would if we move, and we've spent 21 minutes on this so far18:21
gouthamrhmmm; true18:22
gouthamralright; we were split between people wanting to try it, and sticking with the solution18:22
gouthamrwe have.. 18:22
gouthamrso lets table this for now; honestly i did hope that we'd be more accepting of a non-commercial/open source tool and yes, it'd increase participation amongst the TC... if that's not going to happen with this tool change, i don't mind sticking to what we have18:23
gouthamrthank you for sharing your views on this! 18:24
gouthamrlets jump right into the meat of this meeting18:24
gouthamr#topic 2024.2 TC Tracker18:24
gouthamroh18:24
gouthamr#undo18:24
opendevmeetRemoving item from minutes: #topic 2024.2 TC Tracker18:24
gouthamr#agreed The next video meeting will be on Zoom; gouthamr will share details on the ML.. we can continue to dissect the meeting tool/platform outside of the TC meeting 18:25
gouthamr#topic 2024.2 TC Tracker18:25
gouthamr#link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2024.2-tracker (Technical Committee activity tracker)18:25
gouthamr^ there's been some movement on many open governance items18:26
gouthamrbeyond proposals to the governance repo, there is ML activity captured in that tracker as well18:26
gmanngouthamr:  ++ for adding date wise status tracking.  I added the status on my item in etherpad.18:27
gouthamr+1 it would help me keep the ticker on things; and allow things to merge in a timely manner 18:28
gouthamrthere may be missing activities on this etherpad18:29
gouthamrplease add them if you were keeping tab of them :) 18:30
gouthamri think one thing i had a question about was gate stability that a lot of work went into.. i don't know if we meant to keep checking in during this release18:31
dansmithhonestly the work we put in was mostly in the checking, and I think the highlighting is what actually made things progress18:31
dansmithI mean, I think it's been that way for a couple years now18:32
dansmith"gate health dies in darkness" or some such18:32
gmannI think that is worth to continue and has helped us on progressing on gate stability even it is not stable yet18:32
gmannat least having TC eyes on big breaking things help18:32
slaweq+118:33
gouthamr+1 agreed! i'll take a stab at filling the details thus far and ask questions; is there an update anyone would like to share now? 18:33
gouthamrtaking silence as no.. 18:34
dansmithI've been stuck on something not very upstream the last few weeks,18:34
dansmithso I don't have the same "butt dyno" feeling I would normally18:34
dansmithbut I think it's been relatively decent of late, but things are starting to pick up for the cycle and that's when things will happen18:35
slaweqI was also off for quite some time recently but after I came back I didn't saw any major issues there18:36
gmanni have not seen blocking failure in this week but there are less activities so far18:36
gmannfixed one issue in tempest jobs but that is for victoria/wallaby branches18:37
gouthamr+1 i think this thingy may drive up some activity18:37
gouthamr#link https://canonical.com/blog/canonical-releases-ubuntu-24-04-noble-numbat (Ubuntu 24.04) 18:37
fricklerwell, I was going to mention this later, but the QA team has no volunteer yet to make devstack run on that18:38
dansmithyeah, when do we get 24.04 jobs?18:38
dansmithah18:38
gmannnot yet18:38
gmannI mean no volunteer yet as frickler mentioned so not sure when we will have18:38
frickleralso the opendev team may be thankful for help for getting mirrors set up and images built18:38
dansmithhas someone tried and it fails, or just no known attempts yet?18:39
fricklerno attempts afaik18:39
dansmithack18:39
fungisome things needed updating in underlying components first (glean, dib...)18:39
noonedeadpunkwell, in osa we tried, but it failed way before, so not representative yet.18:39
noonedeadpunkBut I was wondering about 1 thing - I guess 24.04 is shipped with py3.12?18:39
fungibig thanks to frickler for helping work out a lot of that18:40
dansmithyeah, as I understand18:40
noonedeadpunkand there was some struggle with it?18:40
noonedeadpunkAt least according to what is written in PTI18:40
noonedeadpunk(and plenty of ML discussions)18:40
JayFI think most outstanding items preventing py3.12 from running  at all have been resolved18:40
fricklernoonedeadpunk: what's written in the PTI iiuc is mainly due to 24.04 not being available when the reqs for 2024.2 were to be finalized18:40
JayFif that's not true I'd be interested to know what specific items still exist18:40
funginote that we do already have python3.12 jobs available, they just don't run on ubuntu noble yet18:41
dansmithI know taskflow has some stuff that is going to explode, but I don't know if that is in 3.12 or later18:41
gtemaJayf: sure? Sometime ago even docs build jobs were failing for some projects 18:41
noonedeadpunkaha, ok, gotcha18:41
fungi3.13 is going to be a more painful version, due to the "removing dead batteries" effort18:42
dansmithfungi: yeah18:42
JayFgtema: I have not tested docs builds; mainly focusing on unit tests and known-broken-issues (e.g. eventlet-related stuff, sslcontext changes)18:42
gmannthis is result for unite testing on py3.12 #link https://zuul.openstack.org/builds?job_name=openstack-tox-py312&skip=018:42
gmannI think more failing than passing18:43
JayFTo be clear; my comment was meaning18:43
JayFnothing should be blcoking those projects from being 3.12 compatible now18:43
dansmithah yep, taskflow is broken: https://zuul.openstack.org/build/915772d7ce8e4af191f0abf30ec22acd18:43
dansmithwhich means glance18:43
dansmithand probably others, cinder maybe18:43
dansmithcan't even import it, so that'll be a problem18:44
dansmith(in 3.12)18:44
noonedeadpunkoctavia?18:45
dansmithah here we go, problem solved :) https://github.com/simonrob/pyasyncore18:45
johnsomWe are just going to remove that code from taskflow18:46
johnsomNo one is using it18:46
dansmithI thought it ran deeper than trivial removal18:46
johnsomNope18:47
dansmithif not, then cool,18:47
johnsomThere is a patch up already18:47
dansmithexcellent18:47
gouthamr#link https://bugs.launchpad.net/taskflow/+bug/2026183 (taskflow shouldn't be using asyncore / asynchat anymore)18:47
noonedeadpunkthat sounds too trivial :D18:47
gouthamr#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/taskflow/+/916147 (Python3.12: disable process_executor, which depends on asyncore)18:47
gouthamralright; do we have a recommendation on how to approach this? we have a two part problem - python3.12 and the using the latest LTS18:48
gouthamrmaybe we tell project teams to look at their failing 3.12 jobs because we intend to switch the default to voting? 18:49
dansmithnot in this release right?18:50
gouthamryeah, E would be the focus; but start now?18:50
fricklerwell one option would be to resort to only using Debian as LTS platform18:50
dansmithPTI says it's advisory only, so we can't do that until next release at the earliest, AFAIK18:50
JayFI think it's to the point of project team responsibility now, we've enabled py3.12 support in libraries we use and in oslo stuff18:50
gmannthis release, it will be non voting only and voting in next one18:50
JayFit never hurts to encourage people to pay attention now though :)18:50
gmannbut we expect project to work on issues in this release so that no issue in making it voting in next cycle18:50
gmannyeah18:51
fricklermaybe jamespage has some colleagues that could be motivated ... cf. the earlier discussion about Charms18:52
gouthamr^ ++18:52
gmannthat's even on python 3.11 which is voting job18:53
gmannnot sure if anything py 3.12 has solution for and they want to avoid py3.11 testing18:53
fricklerfrom what I read in that review the real issue was broken constraints pinning18:54
gouthamrwe'll gather that info over the ML18:54
gouthamralright; we're 5 mins to close18:55
gouthamrand i wanted to leave some space for open discussion18:55
gouthamr#topic Open Discussion18:55
fricklerI wanted to also shortly mention the topic of global-requirements.txt cleanup that came up earlier today18:56
fricklerstephenfin made some work in the reqs repo to clean things up, one patch removed old constraints (excludes), which now causes reqs check in other projects to fail18:56
fricklersee e.g. the lively discussion in the nova meeting earlier18:57
fricklernot sure yet whether some actual action on the TC side is needed, but likely worth watching at least18:57
JayFI took the action of approving like 10 patches in Ironic projects fixing them :D 18:58
gouthamr#link https://meetings.opendev.org/irclogs/%23openstack-requirements/%23openstack-requirements.2024-04-30.log.html (discussion on openstack-requirements regarding dropping exclusions) 18:58
gouthamr#link https://meetings.opendev.org/irclogs/%23openstack-nova/%23openstack-nova.2024-04-30.log.html (discussion on openstack-nova regarding dropping exclusions)18:58
frickler#link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/requirements/+/916006 the relevant patch18:59
spotz[m]Thanks Goutham!18:59
frickleras, I think the fallout was a bit unexpected18:59
fricklers/as/yes/18:59
gmannone more thing.  we have now 23 open reviews. I would request to get more vote and merge the one already eligible https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/governance+status:open19:00
gouthamr^ gmann yes; i've a post meeting AI on this19:00
gmannthanks 19:00
gouthamrperfect; we're at the hour.. the chariot turns into a pumpkin, or something19:00
gouthamrthank you all for attending!19:01
gouthamr#endmeeting19:01
opendevmeetMeeting ended Tue Apr 30 19:01:10 2024 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4)19:01
opendevmeetMinutes:        https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-04-30-18.00.html19:01
opendevmeetMinutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-04-30-18.00.txt19:01
opendevmeetLog:            https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-04-30-18.00.log.html19:01
slaweqo/19:01
fricklerthx gouthamr and all19:02
gtemaThks, see ya19:02
gmannthanks 19:03
gouthamri'd like some feedback on the tc summary that went out earlier today... do you find it lacking in something? the intention is to provide an update on the meetings, and proposals in action and also include any call outs like the one about election officials19:25
gouthamrif you think i can add anything else into the email or structure it differently, let me know :) 19:26
gouthamrmy running notes will be here: https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-weekly-update19:26
gouthamri mean to send this out every monday; i slacked off a bit yesterday ... but if you have a suggestion on a good day/time let me know as well.. 19:27
gmanngouthamr: ++, that looks good to me. thanks for restarting the weekly summary email. it was helpful especially for community members not actively involved in TC activities. 19:40
spotz[m]++19:43
gouthamrthanks gmann and spotz[m] 19:47
fungioh, i meant to remind everyone at the end of the meeting that the cfp deadline for openinfra summit in september is only a month away, may 29: https://openinfrafoundation.formstack.com/forms/openinfra_asia_summit_202421:17
fungii'm told that tickets for admission will be a mere us$60 per person (or free if you're giving a talk), and that if anyone needs travel assistance the foundation does have budget for that too21:19
fungialso, if you're interested in the open compute project, they'll be having their conference together with us, so one ticket gets you access to talks on both21:21
gouthamri didn't know about the collocated open compute event; that is very cool22:42
opendevreviewMerged openstack/governance master: Appoint Wenxiang Wu as PTL of Skyline  https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/91510822:57
spotz[m]Yeah I found it a litle hard to find, the links on the site don't stand out. That said put in 2 talks, 1 might not be in the right track but figured they could move it23:07
fungiawesome!23:12
fungitravel support applications can be submitted at https://openinfrafoundation.formstack.com/forms/openinfra_tsp23:15
fungiif your employer won't fund your travel to korea, don't hesitate to fill out an application for travel support23:16
fungithat's what it's there for23:16

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