| opendevreview | Guillaume Boutry proposed openstack/openstack-manuals master: Drop EOL version from ubuntu guide https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/openstack-manuals/+/951634 | 08:55 |
|---|---|---|
| gouthamr | tc-members: gentle reminder that we’ll be meeting in ~55 minutes on Zoom and this IRC channel: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 16:05 |
| dansmith | i can haz? https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/951569 | 16:52 |
| gouthamr | yes will workflow after https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-config/+/951570 lands | 16:53 |
| dansmith | gouthamr: thanks! | 16:54 |
| fungi | dansmith: gouthamr: i just got caught up and approved the project-config change now | 16:55 |
| fungi | once the deploy pipeline completes for it, should be able to recheck the governance change and get a +1 from zuul | 16:56 |
| dansmith | ack thanks | 16:56 |
| fungi | so hopefully after the meeting | 16:56 |
| fungi | but also you can start using it right away even if the governance change hasn't merged yet | 16:57 |
| dansmith | cool | 16:59 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Jun 3 17:00:47 2025 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 17:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 17:00 |
| gouthamr | #info Today's meeting is being held primarily via video call. Action items and meeting minutes will be documented in IRC but for a full replay of the meeting, please visit the OpenStack TC youtube channel, where the recording will be uploaded soon. | 17:01 |
| spotz[m] | o/ | 17:01 |
| gouthamr | #link https://www.youtube.com/@openstack-tc | 17:01 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 17:01 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 17:01 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 17:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 17:01 |
| gmaan | o/ | 17:01 |
| bauzas | o/ | 17:01 |
| gtema | o/ | 17:01 |
| bauzas | (joining Zoom in a sec, once my laptop is fully rejuvenated) | 17:02 |
| cardoe | Zoom is installing an update... sorry... | 17:02 |
| spotz[m] | I’m waiting on the wiki for link | 17:03 |
| gouthamr | courtesy-ping: mnasiadka | 17:03 |
| mnasiadka | Sorry - got a company wide meeting today - will not be very talkative | 17:04 |
| mnasiadka | o/ | 17:04 |
| gouthamr | #topic Last Week's AIs | 17:05 |
| gouthamr | the main one was around the DCO | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | at this point most folks here have opined on the proposal: | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/950463 ([resolution] Replace CLA with DCO for all contributions) | 17:06 |
| gouthamr | gmaan says that the translations sign off question raised on the patch can be treated separately | 17:07 |
| gouthamr | there's no ICLA/CLA enforcement on Zanata | 17:08 |
| bauzas | sorry folks, I have a headset issue | 17:08 |
| bauzas | I can just hear from you now | 17:08 |
| gouthamr | and ianychoi noted that he didn't enforce ICLA for translators | 17:09 |
| gouthamr | we can't onboard any new contributors to Zanata | 17:12 |
| gouthamr | weblate could enforce a CLA/DCO | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | but right now, a translator can't signup on OpenStack weblate either | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | things are in-flight to productize weblate as we know | 17:13 |
| gouthamr | we have 4 interns from CMU Pittsburgh and Qatar working over the next ~12 weeks to port scripts working with Zanata today to Weblate | 17:14 |
| cardoe | Wondering if we can break up the DCO change into steps instead of the big pivot that it is right now. | 17:15 |
| gouthamr | so, we can't block the DCO enforcement for code/doc contributions on the issue of enforcing it for translators | 17:15 |
| gouthamr | clarkb says weblate will allow the enforcement that zanata lacked | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | zanata is abandoned upstream, and we may have security bugs - and there's an urgency to finish our migration off of it | 17:16 |
| cardoe | +1 to gmaan's suggestion | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | gmaan agrees that we should separate the concerns and the TC resolution is a blocker for the whole DCO effort | 17:16 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk is concerned that we'll be tacking on more tech-debt | 17:17 |
| gouthamr | clarkb says that we need a stop gap for translators that we can work out | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | maybe a translator can send a note to the openstack-discuss with the DCO sign off | 17:18 |
| clarkb | fwiw I'm not sure we need one, just suggesting that that might be an option | 17:18 |
| gouthamr | +1 | 17:19 |
| gouthamr | #agreed on the zoom call to separate the translation CLA concern into a separate resolution and proceed with merging the existing resolution | 17:21 |
| gouthamr | that was the major AI we had | 17:22 |
| gouthamr | the other one was around gate failures in out-of-tree ML2 plugins | 17:22 |
| gouthamr | JayF: did you happen to report a bug against devstack or neutron for the issue you mentioned last week | 17:22 |
| gouthamr | was anyone else tracking anything else? | 17:23 |
| JayF | gouthamr: it's not really a bug? Just a combination of devstack tech debt being cleaned up, which made us cleanup some tech debt too, but it wasn't really straightforward. | 17:23 |
| gouthamr | in terms of AIs | 17:23 |
| gouthamr | ah ack JayF | 17:23 |
| JayF | frustrating and time consuming but kinda unavoidable unless devstack wants to gate against ironic | 17:23 |
| gouthamr | i see | 17:23 |
| JayF | and I'm not sure I want that :) | 17:23 |
| gouthamr | ack, sounds good .. good to see that ironic fixed the issue in the plugin | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | there's a question on Zoom | 17:24 |
| JayF | Just please folks keep in mind that Ironic often has to reconfigure things in our plugin, so be kind to that use case | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | about the tooling patches to add "signed-off-by" to automated bot changes | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | JayF++ | 17:24 |
| JayF | (the UWSGI config pattern makes that extremely difficult) | 17:24 |
| gouthamr | fungi says there's no blocker, we can approve all the open tooling changes | 17:25 |
| gouthamr | ttx is checking with legal if there are any implications if bots add this sign off | 17:25 |
| gouthamr | bauzas is seeking clarifications regarding Gerrit Web UI patch updates post the DCO enforcement dates | 17:26 |
| gouthamr | he's concerned that the formatting of the sign off will not be properly enforced | 17:27 |
| gouthamr | fungi says that we'll have this pain temporarily | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | he says we need to mention this in the contributor documentation for this | 17:28 |
| gouthamr | #action: gouthamr will update https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/contributor-guide/+/950839 to address this concern | 17:29 |
| gmaan | ++ | 17:29 |
| spotz[m] | I think Sylvain is talking about the corner case I talked about last week | 17:30 |
| gouthamr | alright, we might have some teething pains regarding this | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | the sooner we do this the better, that's been the thought | 17:33 |
| gouthamr | #topic Pending governance proposals and review timelines | 17:34 |
| gouthamr | 17:34 | |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/governance+status:open | 17:34 |
| cardoe | Another one that could get some eyes is https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/948484 | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | any concerns with any open changes that we need to chat about right now | 17:35 |
| gouthamr | bauzas is requesting a summary of our course of action on the governance proposal | 17:36 |
| gouthamr | cardoe: thank you for pointing it out.. | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | we can workflow it after two core reviewers have approved | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | #topic Changing OpenInfra User Survey Questions | 17:37 |
| gouthamr | 17:37 | |
| gouthamr | we won't be changing any questions for the 2025 user survey | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | we could be prepared in advance for the next one though | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | please feel free to edit the topic on the tc tracker etherpad | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | #topic Improving Contributor experience, contd. | 17:38 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/tc-2025.2-tracker (the summary of the Contributor/Maintainer surveys for Epoxy) | 17:39 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/message/3YCEOEVDZRG5UU3FMPEP4F6EZIXDAVGU/ (summary posted by ildikov on the ML) | 17:40 |
| gouthamr | the survey responses indicated that maintainers have trouble getting review attention | 17:41 |
| gouthamr | :( | 17:41 |
| gouthamr | that's 73% of their issue | 17:41 |
| gouthamr | the same question was posed to contributors, and 68% of the time that "Trouble getting reviews" was the reason/challenge indicated | 17:43 |
| gouthamr | bauzas says the root of this is a communiciation problem | 17:44 |
| spotz[m] | Sounds like a good Forum session? It's a more advanced version of a talk I've submitted for summit | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | it's good for live feedback | 17:44 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/project-team-guide master: Add notes on reviving projects/deliverables https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/project-team-guide/+/948484 | 17:44 |
| gouthamr | as PTL bauzas had talked to contributors/operators multiple times over the years to show them how the Nova team prioritizes reviews.. | 17:46 |
| gouthamr | spotz[m] says operator hours at the PTG probably didn't gather enough critical audience or have clear outcomes of what to get out of them.. because we didn't plan early enough | 17:48 |
| gouthamr | ops meetups in person (like the one alongside the Summit in Berlin, 2022) worked better | 17:48 |
| gouthamr | lets take advantage of the upcoming Paris summit to have an in-person ops meetup, and for project updates as well so maintainers can talk to contributors | 17:49 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk says that it is problematic to understand how each project team prioritizes things | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | (as a contributor to multiple projects) | 17:50 |
| gouthamr | he thinks we should be reinforcing guidelines to project teams | 17:51 |
| gouthamr | some problems: | 17:53 |
| gouthamr | - heavy etherpad usage to track review priorities - these aren't easily findable unless they're linked prominently from docs/wiki | 17:53 |
| gouthamr | - review priority label isn't being used, even by project teams that have enabled them | 17:53 |
| gouthamr | bauzas is suggesting that we direct projects to update their CONTRIBUTING.rst file at the root of the projects | 17:54 |
| gouthamr | bauzas is saying maintainers are humans, with human flaws - contributors must be talking to PTLs and finding "sponsors" to review their code.. its hard, but the only way things can improve.. | 17:59 |
| gouthamr | cardoe says its hard for seasoned contributors to find review help in nova - they attempted chatting with folks during nova meetings, IRC etc | 18:00 |
| clarkb | note anyone should be able to unabandon their own changes. Not sure if they would immediately get reabandoned by tooling through | 18:00 |
| clarkb | *though | 18:00 |
| clarkb | (and opendev actually suggests against auto abandoning anything) | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | cardoe says that -1s would be more helpful to the contributor than long silence from maintainers.. | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | ~~~ time check ~~~~ | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | bauzas says that we need to ensure we have cross project discussions prioritized at the Oct PTG to address issues like the one that cardoe brought up | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | (cardoe's example of a patch that got stuck was around a nova/neutron feature) | 18:04 |
| cardoe | clarkb: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/neutron-tempest-plugin/+/941355 is one of them. I believe Vasyl wasn't able. | 18:04 |
| cardoe | gtema: there's 2 changes for the openstack-ansible which have +1's from folks and pass tests. I think we can merge those 2 and make a release? | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | we wrapped up the video meeting | 18:05 |
| fungi | tc-members: point i was saving for open-discussion relatd to the foundation joining lf... | 18:05 |
| cardoe | For context, the spec change is this... https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/nova-specs/+/471815 | 18:05 |
| gtema | ack cardoe, I am past my working hours, try to look tomorrow at those | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | we will continue this topic during the next week's meeting | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | noonedeadpunk: will be running next week's meeting.. thank you noonedeadpunk! | 18:06 |
| cardoe | gtema: absolutely. I just returned from PTO so just working through my backlog and wanted to mention it. | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | i'll follow up with the meeting summary/AIs as usual.. | 18:06 |
| cardoe | fungi: we can discuss it async? | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | thank you all for joining today, and for bringing all these insights to the discussion! | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | see you here next week! | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 18:06 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Jun 3 18:06:49 2025 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 18:06 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-06-03-17.00.html | 18:06 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-06-03-17.00.txt | 18:06 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2025/tc.2025-06-03-17.00.log.html | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | fungi: oops | 18:07 |
| fungi | lf prefers and has unlimited google meet, though zoom is available and the foundation can pay for that still if desired, but the room url would change to a new account in that case. keep in mind that opendev's meetpad is always available as a free alternative too of course | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | lets do meetpad, really | 18:07 |
| cardoe | I'm a +1 on meetpad | 18:08 |
| fungi | mainly i wanted to point it out as early as possible so you have time to start a conversation around it, there's no urgency, just a heads-up | 18:08 |
| fungi | i don't know any spcific timeline for closing out the old zoom accoubnt this meeting has been using | 18:09 |
| clarkb | cardoe: I'm digging for where we set that in configuration and we only seem to explicitly set it on stable branches (due to the exclusive group perms on those branches). I wonder if Gerrit changed a default at some point in time and we didn't notice | 18:10 |
| cardoe | I'll poke Vasyl to try again. | 18:11 |
| clarkb | cardoe: https://gerrit-review.googlesource.com/Documentation/access-control.html#category_abandon that says it should be doable as change uploader | 18:11 |
| clarkb | but it could be the docs are stale and gerrit changes something. Definitely let us know what you find out | 18:11 |
| cardoe | This is one of those things that its combining the efforts of people from 3 different companies across multiple repos for two different projects. So it's truly a collaborative effort. But it's very async and gotta figure out how to contact each other. | 18:13 |
| cardoe | I'm trying to get everyone to stop having it as down stream patches. | 18:13 |
| fungi | cardoe: mmaybe the new #openstack-ops:opendev.org matrix channel would be appropriate for downstream ops patch upstreaming coordination efforts? | 18:15 |
| cardoe | maybe. just regular #openstack-ops on IRC? | 18:16 |
| fungi | when you have a matrix hammer, every conversation looks like a nail! ;) | 18:16 |
| fungi | if they're all on irc then sure, yep | 18:16 |
| cardoe | Well I am on IRC and not on matrix. | 18:17 |
| clarkb | as the operator of the code review tool I Think that projects should avoid abandoning things that people say they are working on. Ask them to mark them WIP until ready for review sure. but to say you can't use the collaboration system to sollaborate is silly | 18:17 |
| clarkb | but thats really a question for neutron and the tc probably. I'm not going to ban hammer anyone for using gerrit wrong | 18:17 |
| noonedeadpunk | and on IRC this channel seems non-existing | 18:18 |
| cardoe | Well one of the things I advocated when running for the TC was to try and get operators to upstream stuff they're running in prod if/when it makes sense. | 18:18 |
| * noonedeadpunk live by that principle against all odds | 18:19 | |
| spotz[m] | It used to be there weird | 18:19 |
| cardoe | It's just an exercise of seeing who is more stubborn. Me as the squeaky wheel or the project or upstream. | 18:20 |
| cardoe | er... s/upstream/downstream/ | 18:20 |
| clarkb | noonedeadpunk: if your client shows you channel modes you'll see the channel is +s. That was done to mimimize spam | 18:21 |
| clarkb | it was done almost immediately after moving to oftc so has been that way for some time | 18:21 |
| clarkb | https://oftc.net/ChannelModes/ | 18:21 |
| noonedeadpunk | yeah, it shows "*** Channel modes: no messages from outside, topic protection" | 18:25 |
| clarkb | mine says (+nstc) | 18:25 |
| frickler | the channel is #openstack-operators | 18:26 |
| clarkb | oh I'm looking at this channel. Sorry I misunderstood | 18:26 |
| frickler | on OFTC. (so maybe unlucky choice for the matrix channel name) | 18:26 |
| clarkb | no the names should be able to overlap just fine | 18:27 |
| noonedeadpunk | ok, this one I have :) | 18:27 |
| clarkb | pretty sure the zuul irc channel was left up with people pointing stragglers in the right direction for a while | 18:27 |
| fungi | #openstack-ops:opendev.org is a matrix room, not an irc channel reachable from matrix through a bridge | 18:29 |
| fungi | #openstack-operators is a channel on the oftc irc network | 18:30 |
| fungi | (which would be reachable from matrix through the oftc bridge) | 18:31 |
| noonedeadpunk | well, then pretty much cut out from joining it ;( | 18:34 |
| noonedeadpunk | or need to finally move to matrix... | 18:35 |
| clarkb | can you expand on that more? Is that a personal preference thing are are their hard requirements that can't be met using matrix? | 18:35 |
| clarkb | they were talking about using slack or discord and then discussing how long free tiers of each of those retain scrollback so we suggested maybe they try matrix first | 18:36 |
| clarkb | and they agreed that was worth a short | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | It's too many ram-consuming apps... Already running Slack, Mattermost, Zulip, IRC and now need to add Element to the list | 18:36 |
| clarkb | I just run it in a web browser tab which isn't too bad | 18:36 |
| clarkb | the desktop client is heavy I agree | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | You actually helped me to sort out visuals there, so it is at least usable now... | 18:37 |
| noonedeadpunk | I kinda tried to fix NeoChat, but it really does not want to pass auth for some reason... | 18:37 |
| noonedeadpunk | browser can be a way ofc... | 18:38 |
| clarkb | the only feature the browser doesn't have that desktop does is searching history in encrypted rooms | 18:38 |
| clarkb | but these public discussion rooms are not encrypted so shouldn't impact that specific use case | 18:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | was just trying to reduce amount of things I need to keep track of, but the list keeps growing spomehow | 18:40 |
| clarkb | fyi https://openinfra.org/blog/openinfra-joins-linux-foundation was posted today | 20:40 |
| gouthamr | nice | 20:57 |
| fungi | the latest update on the zoom account is that the foundation staff ned to know something by june 1 if they'll be providing a new zoom room for the tc meetings | 21:03 |
| gouthamr | day before yesterday? :) | 21:03 |
| fungi | er, no, JULY 1, sorry! | 21:04 |
| clarkb | which is before the next video meeting right? | 21:04 |
| fungi | i don't even know what month i'm in any more | 21:04 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: i propose to begin using meetpad.opendev.org for our next meeting on July 1st 2025; if this fails us, we'll try to work with the foundation to use Google Meet or whatever tool suggested.. so there may be a short term pain (i doubt it) where we figure things out | 21:05 |
| gouthamr | if there are any objections, let me know.. | 21:05 |
| * gouthamr is excited about setting a deterministic meeting URL :D | 21:06 | |
| gouthamr | fungi: our use of Zoom was pretty rudimentary; i had an host code, and i accidentally used "record to the cloud" thingy one time which clarkb and aprice helped me almost immediately with.. so there's nothing to retrieve/relinquish before the account goes away | 21:07 |
| gouthamr | gmaan: JayF: does that sound right to you? ^ | 21:08 |
| JayF | yes | 21:08 |
| JayF | I did the record to cloud once too lol | 21:08 |
| JayF | rite of passage for new tc'ers | 21:08 |
| JayF | **Tc chairs | 21:08 |
| gouthamr | haha | 21:08 |
| gmaan | yeah, as those are published on youtube, it is all fine. | 21:12 |
| fungi | the previously-announced hashtag change is implemented, now all gerrit users can use the hashtag feature similarly to the change topic feature | 21:23 |
| gouthamr | \o/ | 21:25 |
| gouthamr | super useful to tie governance proposals and multi-repo topic based patches | 21:25 |
| gouthamr | like this: https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:%22dco-signed-off-by%22+OR+topic:%22dco-signed-off-by%22 | 21:26 |
| clarkb | now you can update all the changes and remove topic from your query | 21:27 |
| fungi | yes | 21:29 |
| fungi | that's the reason i had originally done the query like that, because there was one change i wasn't the author on that i couldn't add the hashtag to because it was for openstack/requirements | 21:29 |
| fungi | fixed now! | 21:30 |
| gouthamr | there's a limit to this, right? | 21:30 |
| gouthamr | to prevent abuse? :D | 21:30 |
| fungi | yes, it's called we disable accounts if they abuse gerrit features or otherwise become a nuisance | 21:31 |
| fungi | same as for being able to set/change the topic | 21:31 |
| gouthamr | haha, wfm | 21:31 |
| fungi | anyway, https://review.opendev.org/q/hashtag:dco-signed-off-by includes elod's release change now (it was release not requirements) | 21:32 |
| clarkb | I think there is a notedb limit to total updates per chagne as well | 21:32 |
| clarkb | so you'd eventually hit that then the change would effectively self archive itself | 21:32 |
| clarkb | we've yet to hit that on any chagne I am aware of | 21:32 |
| spotz[m] | gouthamr: I'm fine with meetpad, it's come a long way since we tried to use it for the first virtual PTG:) | 21:33 |
| gouthamr | ++ ty spotz[m] | 21:35 |
| gouthamr | clarkb: oh, good to know.. | 21:36 |
| fungi | i mean, there are similar limits on change comments too | 21:40 |
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