| *** bauzas_ is now known as bauzas | 07:28 | |
| SvenKieske | Hello friendly TC, I have, once again, a weird question: Where can I find the definition of what is a "python project"? That maybe sounds silly, but I'm not after the easy answer of "if your whole project is written in python it's a python project". What about other projects, e.g. kolla? we have quite some python code but way more yaml I think. | 08:18 |
|---|---|---|
| SvenKieske | it's not really defined here, afaik: https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/pti/python.html#pti-python | 08:19 |
| mnasiadka | kolla is written in python, you probably mean projects like kolla-ansible or kayobe | 08:25 |
| fungi | SvenKieske: any answer is going to be vague. openstack is made of "projects" (nova, swift, kolla, ...) which in turn consist of one or more deliverables which can have multiple source code repositories. no repository contains only python files since there's often also structured data, documentation, and so on | 12:50 |
| fungi | SvenKieske: instead, i think the point of the pti is really the other way around. for the parts of your project which are implemented in python (if any), these are the testing rules which apply | 12:54 |
| SvenKieske | mhm, but if I'm implementing something in yaml and my yaml parser and execution engine is implemented in python? I don't think I know more now then before. | 13:06 |
| SvenKieske | ok rereading that several times leads me to the impression that this is really a rule for anything python, no matter how "much" python a project contains, got it. | 13:08 |
| SvenKieske | so no rule for "python projects" (whatever that is) but rather "projects containing any python". | 13:09 |
| fungi | SvenKieske: correct, that's what i was trying to say. a single git repository might contain pieces implemented in python, javascript and golang for example, so for each of those parts the developers should follow the corresponding testing guidance | 13:29 |
| fungi | if you found a place where the pti talks about "python projects" in that context, we should probably look at ways to rephrase it in order to better convey the intent | 13:31 |
| SvenKieske | fungi: well the very first sentence in the thing I linked above :) | 13:32 |
| SvenKieske | "Each python project must be able to do:[..]" | 13:32 |
| fungi | ah, yes, looks like that wording was copied unchanged from the wiki into the governance repo a decade ago in https://review.openstack.org/119872 | 13:40 |
| fungi | with the implication being that it was wording approved by the ppb (the successor to the tc), so likely dates back to 2010 or 2011 | 13:41 |
| fungi | we were a lot less particular about our terminology back then, could definitely stand to be more precise | 13:41 |
| tkajinam | Probably deployment tools need to be described as exception ? | 13:42 |
| fungi | does the python used in deployment tools not need the same kind of testing? | 13:42 |
| tkajinam | (note that puppet modules have no python but ruby (and manifests, of cause) | 13:42 |
| fungi | the pti documents are supposed to be about what kinds of testing to perform *if* you're using a particular language | 13:43 |
| tkajinam | ah, ok | 13:43 |
| tkajinam | I wonder if a basic policy can be determined for non-python part... but at least describing the fact that the current pti document is not applied to non python part might be helpful. | 13:44 |
| fungi | python and javascript are used by enough openstack projects that the tc has supplied and maintained guidance to hopefully encourage consistency in how they're tested. there's also guidance about golang, which was added in preparation for some implementations that never came to fruition | 13:44 |
| opendevreview | Jeremy Stanley proposed openstack/governance master: PTI: Project-first wording https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/929644 | 13:50 |
| fungi | SvenKieske: ^ would that have helped? | 13:50 |
| SvenKieske | sure, appreciated, thank you! :) | 13:51 |
| fungi | yw | 13:51 |
| fungi | we're still correcting vague policy errors from 14 years ago | 13:52 |
| slaweq | hi gouthamr, sorry but I will not be able to attend today's meeting | 14:31 |
| gouthamr | hi slaweq: ack; ty for letting me know | 16:56 |
| gouthamr | tc-members: gentle reminder that we're meeting here in ~57 minutes | 17:03 |
| opendevreview | Merged openstack/governance master: PTI: Project-first wording https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/929644 | 17:09 |
| gouthamr | #startmeeting tc | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting started Tue Sep 17 18:00:26 2024 UTC and is due to finish in 60 minutes. The chair is gouthamr. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | Useful Commands: #action #agreed #help #info #idea #link #topic #startvote. | 18:00 |
| opendevmeet | The meeting name has been set to 'tc' | 18:00 |
| bauzas | \o | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | Welcome to the weekly meeting of the OpenStack Technical Committee. A reminder that this meeting is held under the OpenInfra Code of Conduct available at https://openinfra.dev/legal/code-of-conduct. | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | Today's meeting agenda can be found at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/TechnicalCommittee | 18:00 |
| gouthamr | #topic Roll Call | 18:00 |
| gmann | o/ | 18:01 |
| frickler | \o | 18:01 |
| gouthamr | noted absence: s l a w e q | 18:01 |
| noonedeadpunk | o/ | 18:01 |
| dansmith | o/ | 18:01 |
| JayF | o/ | 18:01 |
| gtema | o/ | 18:01 |
| cardoe | o/ | 18:01 |
| bauzas | \o (again for formal reasons) | 18:02 |
| spotz[m] | \o/ | 18:02 |
| gouthamr | hello everyone! let's get started | 18:03 |
| gouthamr | #topic Action Items from the past week | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | we took an AI on continuing to add content onto our PTG etherpad | 18:04 |
| spotz[m] | And the list of projects came out after the meeting | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/oct2024-ptg-os-tc (OpenStack Technical Committee vPTG planning) | 18:04 |
| gouthamr | yes | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | #link https://lists.openstack.org/archives/list/openstack-discuss@lists.openstack.org/thread/APAC5ANX4TQLP5R257D6OIADTN6Y5GMS/ (PTG October 2024 Teams List) | 18:05 |
| gouthamr | a quick glance (heh) through the service teams there, it does look like a decent list of teams that chose to gather | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | you could compare it to the official list of projects we have here: | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | #link https://governance.openstack.org/tc/reference/projects/ (OpenStack Project Teams) | 18:06 |
| gouthamr | there may be some small teams that be dispersed into these existing projects to have their own PTG sessions simultaneously.. | 18:07 |
| gouthamr | and there are teams that don't have sufficient affiliation diversity (boo) that may not think its useful to schedule meetings at this event | 18:08 |
| gouthamr | and then there's timezone challenges | 18:09 |
| gouthamr | but, would expect this to be a productive gathering as the past ones have been! | 18:09 |
| bauzas | which won't help their affiliation issues | 18:09 |
| frickler | does anyone know about oceanbase? is this becoming an oif project? | 18:10 |
| spotz[m] | One takeaway from Asia Summit is maybe to encourag everyone wo have one APAC slot if possible | 18:10 |
| spotz[m] | For like D&I we onlt even take one slot but we do try for morning | 18:10 |
| fungi | frickler: oceanbase is, i think, a community project spearheaded by huawei and they're interested in doing things the way openstack does them and learning from our community, so more of an adjacent community participation for now | 18:11 |
| bauzas | when will the reservation slots available ? | 18:11 |
| bauzas | for the PTG rooms | 18:11 |
| gmann | frickler: nothing I am aware of. At least no such formal proposal yet to board. | 18:11 |
| fungi | or maybe it was ant group? someone in china anyway | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: not yet; diablo_rojo will chime back in | 18:12 |
| bauzas | cool | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | on to our next AI: | 18:12 |
| gouthamr | Revive the leaderless projects Etherpad (Mistral, Swift, Watcher, Kuryr) | 18:12 |
| fungi | ah, yeah my bad, oceanbase is indeed from ant group | 18:13 |
| fungi | (according to their "about" page) | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | #link https://etherpad.opendev.org/p/2025.1-leaderless (2025.1 leaderless etherpad) | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | ^ we have some patches for review | 18:13 |
| gouthamr | we're on a hold until end of day tomorrow | 18:13 |
| spotz[m] | Yeah Oceanbase has not be presented to the board nor has it been brought up here to the TC | 18:14 |
| gmann | they need to wait until election are closed. PTL appointment needs to be done once PTLs are reset after election | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | gmann: +1 | 18:14 |
| gmann | but good to see volunteer ready to take responsibility | 18:14 |
| gouthamr | that's not too far away; but it was good to line these up.. | 18:15 |
| gmann | about watcher, I think we should start broader notification on ML etc | 18:15 |
| gouthamr | gmann: agreed; i can take that AI | 18:15 |
| gouthamr | #action gouthamr will start the ML discussion regarding watcher's leaderless situation and futures | 18:16 |
| gmann | thanks | 18:16 |
| gouthamr | gmann: do we have any update from tacker in the past week regarding their use of kuryr-kubernetes | 18:17 |
| gmann | work is still on going and not yet finished. Tacker PTL updated recently on gerrit | 18:17 |
| JayF | Just observing that the work we've done over the last months/years to reduce this list is paying off :). It's not zero-leaderless but it's much, much fewer than in past years. | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | true; happier situation | 18:18 |
| gmann | I think we can wait for it until next cycle deadline to retire project | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | gmann: Exoxy M-2? | 18:18 |
| gmann | yes | 18:18 |
| gouthamr | Epoxy* | 18:18 |
| spotz[m] | Equine! | 18:18 |
| gmann | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/tacker/+/926504 | 18:19 |
| gouthamr | hmmm; any objections to this? we haven't said "kuryr-kubernetes" (or the lesser used "kuryr-tempest-plugin") are inactive.. their CIs are failing, and hence releases are blocked | 18:19 |
| gmann | we did not add them as inactive as we know retirement is happening but I can add them there if that make status clear | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/releases/+/928531 (Release kuryr-kubernetes RC1 for 2024.2) | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/releases/+/929530 ( 929530: Release kuryr-tempest-plugin for 2024.2) | 18:20 |
| gouthamr | gmann: i think so | 18:22 |
| gmann | commented on release change also | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | sorry this sounds like process, but i think its an easy enough patch for us to share the status beyond this group/meeting | 18:22 |
| gmann | I will propose that | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | ty gmann | 18:22 |
| gouthamr | since all leaderless projects are accounted for | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | lets move to our next AI: | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | Discuss project release tracking and release issues within the release team (frickler) | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | ^ anything to share here, frickler? | 18:23 |
| bauzas | this week was quiet, right? | 18:23 |
| frickler | essentially only that we decided that we should discuss this at the PTG | 18:23 |
| gouthamr | ack; makes sense | 18:24 |
| frickler | since it is too late to do anything for the ongoing release anyway | 18:24 |
| gouthamr | the next couple of AIs will show up in dedicated topics today: | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | - Monitor gate health with the new RaxFlex cloud and check for issues related to internal network + FIPs | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | - Provide Suwon recap in the next meeting | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | lets move to those in a bit | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | were there any other action items that you were tracking? | 18:25 |
| gouthamr | alright lets move on | 18:26 |
| gouthamr | #topic Discussions from OpenInfra Summit Asia (spotz[m]/bauzas) | 18:27 |
| spotz[m] | Ok typing:) | 18:27 |
| bauzas | I let spotz shoot first :) | 18:27 |
| gouthamr | thank you both for participating at the summit and agreeing to recap anything that you might find interesting/relevant here | 18:28 |
| spotz[m] | The Asia event had a very old school feel to it in that the number of people to the size of the space was right on with most of the sessions filled almost to capacity. There were good questions asked in the sessions and outside in the halls as well. | 18:28 |
| noonedeadpunk | nice | 18:29 |
| * noonedeadpunk start regretting missing it now | 18:29 | |
| bauzas | yeah, had a blast from the past | 18:29 |
| spotz[m] | The organizers did a great job of scheduling and the mix of talks(not sure on the OCP side of things), the dinner activity again was a great space for thos who attended | 18:29 |
| spotz[m] | It's putting a bit of pressure on us to do that well for NA:) | 18:30 |
| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Mark kuryr-kubernetes and kuryr-tempest-plugin Inactive https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/929698 | 18:30 |
| noonedeadpunk | NA are OIF Days, so no pressure :D | 18:31 |
| spotz[m] | We do have a great schedule, and we have a reception planned as well. | 18:31 |
| * fungi stares at his blank slide deck and wills it to spontaneously generate a talk for him | 18:32 | |
| spotz[m] | I did put in for an OpenInfra leadership session, I still need to reach out to Mohammed and Tytus, but I've already spoken to Julia and Goutham. Just another meet and greet opportunity. Which reminds me! | 18:32 |
| gouthamr | haha.. was there any community related feedback that you received? the size of the gathering does feel encouraging.. | 18:32 |
| gmann | or TC related? | 18:32 |
| spotz[m] | The TC meet and greet went well, it ended up being more of a Q&A for a potential new contributor interested in Nova who just happened to be sitting next to sbauza! | 18:33 |
| bauzas | there were a few discussions happening both hallways and during Forum sessions | 18:33 |
| bauzas | that could be worth pursuing from a TC level | 18:33 |
| spotz[m] | The forum session went really well, I sat in one a few. Oh and for good or bad the Forum sessions were recorded. I don't think that inhibited any open discussion though I know in some settings it might have | 18:34 |
| spotz[m] | Oh and important to note if you see folks in audiences looking at their phones they were in a live translation app | 18:35 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: nice; what kind, do you want to share a gist here? or perhaps as separate topics? | 18:36 |
| bauzas | the session I have in mind that'd require some cross-project effort whould be translating our docs | 18:36 |
| bauzas | we had a good chat with ian | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | oh... | 18:36 |
| noonedeadpunk | has migration to the new trooling completely stuck? | 18:37 |
| bauzas | he raised to us the fact that most of the ops docs are hardly translated, which prevents people to use OpenStack | 18:37 |
| bauzas | noonedeadpunk: good point, I thought that session was originally intended to discuss state of the migration | 18:37 |
| noonedeadpunk | as I think it was blocker for couple of volunteers I met previous year who wanted to translate things | 18:37 |
| gmann | bauzas: good point | 18:37 |
| fungi | i haven't heard much recently from either ian or seongsoo about the switch to weblate | 18:37 |
| noonedeadpunk | and there were also couple of MLs I can recall of ppl asking on how to translate | 18:38 |
| bauzas | but eventually ian explained that's the problem is way larger than just a tooling migration | 18:38 |
| gmann | maybe this is good item to discuss in PTG also or get status for weblate at least | 18:38 |
| bauzas | I proposed to sungsoo and ian a couple of ideas that we could discuss at PTG | 18:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | well, but now we're just stuck kinda. As new signups to zanata are blocked | 18:38 |
| gmann | ++ | 18:38 |
| bauzas | ian was supportive about it | 18:38 |
| noonedeadpunk | and only horizon iirc does accept transaltions | 18:38 |
| bauzas | and I was volunteer to take nova as a test project for translating our in-tree docs | 18:39 |
| bauzas | but I'd appreciate insights from other teams and people, for sure, hence some x-p session at the PTG I guess | 18:40 |
| bauzas | I haven't checked whether i18n is part of the OpenStack teams at the PTG | 18:40 |
| gouthamr | it isn't | 18:40 |
| JayF | Honestly, this may be a place where, if we're open to it, LLMs could potentially help in this space. I do wonder if 90%-accurate translated docs would be a benefit over someone just using a translate app on their own. | 18:40 |
| bauzas | but I can surely poke ian and ask him his availabilities | 18:40 |
| bauzas | JayF: that was one of the non-great ideas I had | 18:40 |
| bauzas | and we basically designed some workflow that could include some gating job for translating the diff | 18:41 |
| bauzas | but anyway, let's not paper it now | 18:41 |
| fungi | worth noting, i18n is a sig these days, not a project team | 18:41 |
| gmann | bauzas: thanks, or if they can chime in TC slots if booking separately is more work for them | 18:41 |
| gmann | I mean add a topic for TC sessions | 18:42 |
| spotz[m] | jayf we actually discussed that | 18:42 |
| bauzas | yeah, we need to find the right slot for that discussion | 18:42 |
| gouthamr | we might be able to drum up more volunteers to edit a translated version, than to attempt a laborious translation project themselves | 18:42 |
| bauzas | if that's TC, I'm cool, but I want ian and sungsoo to chime in | 18:42 |
| gmann | sounds good | 18:43 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: do you want to somehow write some AI on it ? | 18:43 |
| * gouthamr takes note to poke seongsoo on discord | 18:43 | |
| gouthamr | ack; thank you bauzas - i'll add the placeholder topic to our etherpad and chase down some people to own it | 18:44 |
| gouthamr | with sufficient advertisement, we can have a cross project collaboration around it | 18:44 |
| bauzas | I think I can propose some asia-friendly timeslot for nova and bribe some nova folks to join if they feel enough rejuvenated on early hours | 18:44 |
| bauzas | gouthamr: cool, thanks | 18:45 |
| bauzas | another hallway discussion happened from my talk on nova bureaucratic process for contributions | 18:45 |
| bauzas | it occured to me that none of our tracking etherpad is publicized somewhere and we're not explaining what we expect from our contributors | 18:46 |
| bauzas | so I have a personal AI to document that | 18:46 |
| bauzas | but I think this can be applicable to any project | 18:47 |
| bauzas | anyway, long story and we're late, I stop now | 18:47 |
| fungi | it's an interesting historical note that the reviewday/bugday dashboards were for tracking and prioritizing exactly that sort of stuff, but ended up completely abandoned for years | 18:47 |
| JayF | bauzas: I will mention that I've heard TheJulia surface feedback that generally our use of etherpads (in Ironic context) is tough for new contributors | 18:48 |
| JayF | I don't fully understand it, but it does line up with what you're sayin | 18:49 |
| bauzas | we tested different ways for tracking but none of them were documented, that's the problem I need to solve, per se :) | 18:49 |
| gouthamr | i was religiously maintaining a list like this: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Manila/Etherpads | 18:49 |
| gouthamr | bauzas: another thing would be to tack any etherpad you're using to the channel topic on #openstack-nova | 18:50 |
| TheJulia | The other issue is historical tracking | 18:51 |
| bauzas | I'd say that the problem will be solved if the process can be easily foundable without needing anyone to first understand the process :) | 18:51 |
| TheJulia | And the desire humans deep in the middle of things every day to reduce scope/what they need to keep in memory | 18:51 |
| TheJulia | and the first thing which goes is old back references | 18:51 |
| TheJulia | Which creates lost context | 18:52 |
| * TheJulia gets off soapbox and puts it into a closet so it cannot be used again today | 18:52 | |
| bauzas | that's very late for discussing the benefits and limits of Etherpad :) | 18:52 |
| gouthamr | :P no no .. lets keep using etherpads | 18:52 |
| gouthamr | but, lets make them easier to find | 18:52 |
| TheJulia | Just don't say keep using the wiki | 18:52 |
| bauzas | anyway, I'm done | 18:53 |
| * bauzas gives the mic back | 18:53 | |
| gouthamr | great, thank you bauzas spotz[m] | 18:53 |
| spotz[m] | hehe | 18:53 |
| gouthamr | its very useful to have this recap.. | 18:53 |
| bauzas | np | 18:53 |
| TheJulia | :) | 18:53 |
| gouthamr | #link https://www.openstack.org/videos/summits/asia-2024 (Videos from the OpenInfra Asia Summit) | 18:54 |
| gouthamr | ^ its too early, don't look | 18:54 |
| gouthamr | we're short on time today | 18:54 |
| gouthamr | #topic A check on gate health | 18:55 |
| gouthamr | ^ any burning issues that need to be noted and discussion beyond this meeting? | 18:55 |
| fungi | people have probably already noticed the zuul dashboard has changed. if there are any questions, feel free to follow up in #openstack-infra or #opendev (or #zuul:opendev.org matrix) | 18:56 |
| * gouthamr makes executive decision to skip the good parts | 18:56 | |
| gouthamr | oooh fancy | 18:56 |
| gouthamr | thanks for highlighting that fungi | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | #topic Open Discussion and Reviews | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | #link https://review.opendev.org/q/project:openstack/governance+status:open (Open Reviews on the governance repo) | 18:57 |
| gouthamr | ^ the list looks pretty well cared for, thank you for working on the proposals, and for all the reviews | 18:58 |
| gouthamr | this seems a bit non-controversial to get in, but famous last words: https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/928078 | 18:59 |
| gouthamr | so please take a look :) | 18:59 |
| gouthamr | with that, i think lets call it a meeting.. | 19:00 |
| gouthamr | thank you all for attending | 19:00 |
| fungi | please remember to submit your cycle highlights! | 19:00 |
| JayF | ty o/ | 19:00 |
| spotz[m] | Thanks all! | 19:00 |
| gouthamr | fungi: +1 | 19:00 |
| gouthamr | #endmeeting | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Meeting ended Tue Sep 17 19:00:29 2024 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . (v 0.1.4) | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-09-17-18.00.html | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Minutes (text): https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-09-17-18.00.txt | 19:00 |
| opendevmeet | Log: https://meetings.opendev.org/meetings/tc/2024/tc.2024-09-17-18.00.log.html | 19:00 |
| *** bauzas_ is now known as bauzas | 19:28 | |
| opendevreview | Ghanshyam proposed openstack/governance master: Select community-wide goal: migrate CI/CD jobs to Ubuntu Noble https://review.opendev.org/c/openstack/governance/+/929703 | 20:07 |
Generated by irclog2html.py 2.17.3 by Marius Gedminas - find it at https://mg.pov.lt/irclog2html/!